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/lit/ - Literature

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File: 19 KB, 179x281, leviathan.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
14581267 No.14581267 [Reply] [Original]

What happens if the sovereign persistently violates the laws of nature?

>> No.14581269

>>14581267
shh you can't ask that

>> No.14581283

>>14581267
He cannot. Individuals have already incorporated some of their freedom into the body politic, either through conquest or pact to prevent war against all.

RULES OF NATURE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3472Q6kvg0

>> No.14581829
File: 296 KB, 1254x706, Rules-of-Nature.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
14581829

>>14581283
He actually can, the one rule of nature that cannot be violated without dissolving the social contract is the right to defend one's life. Hobbes mentions that the citizen has the right to defend himself against the sovereign power if it tries to kill him.
Also, you inspired me to finally finish this OC

>> No.14582327

>>14581829
holy shit thats sick

>> No.14582349

>>14581829
That’s fucking based. I take back what I said entirely, secondly because your argument is correct, haven’t read leviathan in a while, but primarily because HOLY MOTHER OF BASED.

>> No.14582359

>>14581829
The Sovereign is Unironically a great fucking idea for a bad ass monster. I think I might use it in a short story or RP game sometime.

>> No.14582383

>Hobbes has to choose between serving God or the state
>cucks for the state
why would anyone listen to this faggot?

>> No.14582384

>>14582359
Might try to mood a AMV asset swap of Raiden vs metal gear ray, but with A model of Hobbes and The Sovereign. Maybe Locke Might be better because of his primacy of Freedom and opposition to Hobbes.

>> No.14582392

>>14582383
>the city of God
>The city of Man
Is different.

Also God can be seen as supreme sovereign. Divine Right to rule snagged a few bits from him.

>> No.14582407

>>14581267
Like what, he defies gravity

>> No.14582530
File: 106 KB, 1280x720, maxresdefault.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
14582530

>>14582327
>>14582349
It was meant to be a spoof of this.

>> No.14582593

>>14582530
Yah, I know, I posted the soundtrack. I guess thanks for pointing it out if anyone’s out of the loop I guess.

>> No.14583264

>>14581283
>Hobbes: Rules of Nature
>Locke: Rules of Nature [remix]
>Rousseau: Rules of Nature [accoustic cover]

>> No.14583805

>>14582383
>>14582392
Did Hobbes make Nature divine or naturalise God?

>> No.14584093

>>14582383
because only one protects you from being brutally murdered

>> No.14584430

>>14584093
He does protect your immortal soul, with is debatebly more important.

>> No.14585140
File: 85 KB, 400x346, 1541359879810.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
14585140

>>14581829

it's more complicated than that. hobbes endorses the idea that you AS AN INDIVIDUAL can and probably ought to go "kicking and screaming" to the gallows; but he also endorses the gallows, and the sovereign's ability to end the life of its subjects (its within an extension of this logic that the sovereign can also ask its subjects to die for it, and execute those who refuse to do so)

>> No.14585154

>>14581829
who is the ponytailed guy supposed to be? Rousseau?

>> No.14586789

If the sovereign breaks rules of nature they put themselves in a state of war with the citizens, thus putting the themselves outside the commonwealth. Allowing the people to destroy and replace the sovereign. Hobbes figured the most simple mechanic of collective human behaviour is our survival instinct, obviously from his personal experience he was arguing for ways to mitigate civil war by the people. But abuse of power to the point of threatening many citizen lives is basically civil war started by the sovereign and society will react.

>> No.14586831

>>14585140
Based and nuancepilled. I really enjoy the honesty of Hobbes, he really tried to separate the “is” from the “aught”.

>> No.14586907

>>14582359
mass effect used it already

>> No.14586925

>>14583805
It is literally the opening line...
"Nature (the art whereby God hath made and governs the world) is by the art
of man, as in many other things, so in this also imitated, that it can make an
artificial animal."

>> No.14587104

>>14585154
Yes

>> No.14587120

>>14586925
This.

>> No.14587203

>>14584430
doesn't exist

>> No.14587215

>>14586789
>If the sovereign breaks rules of nature they put themselves in a state of war with the citizens
No he doesn't lmfao he's already at a state of war with everyone because he didn't covet anything. He's just the person of the covets among all subjects (who are the authors)

>> No.14587285

>>14587203
>race doesn't exist
>ancestral memory doesn't exist
>similar combinations of genes don't combine to form a similar individual repeatedly in a race's history
okay subhuman retard

we're going to slaughter you all

>> No.14587289

>>14587215
why are you even posting here you didn't read it, you don't understand any of it, and you're mentally retarded
fuck off

>> No.14587318

>>14587215
No idea what you are on about regarding how not coveting anything puts a sovereign at war with people. Do you even know what that word means lol?

Any ways a key thing a lot of people are missing here is this line from Hobbes: “A law may be thought to be good when it is for the benefit of the sovereign, though it be not necessary for the people, but it is not so. For the good of the sovereign and people cannot be separated. It is a weak sovereign that has weak subjects.”

By Hobbes reckoning yeah, you need an absolutely powerful government or else the contract is void and we get chaos. But that does not give licence to the sovereign to abuse the people. They will be bad subjects and thus weaken the state and the sovereign. It is basic logic.

>> No.14587546

>>14581829
Amazing gif. Mind if I show it to my political philosophy professor?

>> No.14587649

>>14587289
>>14587318
>t. will never understand hobbes

>> No.14587679

>>14587285
schizo

>> No.14587715
File: 208 KB, 800x534, 1543790090682.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
14587715

>>14581267
anime pussy takes over nature

>> No.14587725

>>14587715
i wish

>> No.14587737

>>14581829
Hobbes greatly influenced Rousseau, remember. I think Hobbes had the greatest influence with how Rousseau regards natural liberties (that the state takes these away and gives the citizens civil liberties)

>> No.14587988

>>14587546
if it is your hearts desire, though i'm not sure if he'd get the joke. the image is the common property of the internet now.

>> No.14588914

>>14587715
Sakura quest would have been more interesting if it took place in the state of nature