/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.14674084]

How the FUCK is one supposed to live with the fact that beautiful women effortlessly know a peace and joy that men, even beautiful ones, must break their backs and minds to achieve?
It is told that Boticelli begged to be buried in the same church as Simonetta Vespucci, just to rest close to her beauty, and he was buried there indeed.
Do you understand this? One of the legendary artists that toiled and studied and brought art to new heights at his time, begging to be close to a woman that did nothing but be born pretty. This is a pattern that reoccurs all throughout history. The very idea of a muse permeates all art forms.
I don't think the average man understand the implications of this.
When you read something like the diary of Anais Nin, you think you might find what existential angst weighs on a woman that beautiful during her youth, but what you find is that no such thing exists. You're showered with erotic poetry, sexual fantasies and the average thing you'd imagine of the life of a goddess of beauty and love.

Imagine how hard men have tried, throughout ages, to overcome the existential dread. Created religions, philosophical lines, societal rules, entire cultures, yet they almost unequivocally failed. The only exceptions are extremely rare saints or religious figures from legends, which supposedly overcame the cycle of suffering.
Yet for women, this comes naturally. You are here spending your youth dreading your existence or trying to find a way out of the abyss through self improvement, meditation, work, or whatever the fuck, and there is always at least one beautiful woman, one Simonetta Vespucci in the world, that knows a calm peace of mind and joy, simply for existing, that you will never get close to understanding.

[Anonymous No.14674110]

>>14674084
>One of the legendary artists that toiled and studied and brought art to new heights at his time, begging to be close to a woman that did nothing but be born pretty
That's his problem and says nothing about her. You guys are so wrapped up in your own suffering that you can't recognize it another people. Nobody likes to really show their pain to others, and even if a beautiful woman said she was filled with existential dread you wouldn't believe her anyway.

[Anonymous No.14674120]

>>14674110
>That's his problem and says nothing about her.
I can tell you that for a woman beautiful enough most men would do similar things. It's a great cope for them to tell you otherwise, and history has an infinity of examples to back this up.
>if a beautiful woman said she was filled with existential dread you wouldn't believe her anyway.
If one of them did it would be a start, but none of them have.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.14674127]

You glide along the “meaning” of life here, till “The only exceptions are extremely rare saints“
And “never get close to”. It’s easily achieved actually.

[Anonymous No.14674136]

women are gay and if you care about them you’re gay too

[Anonymous No.14674145]

>>14674127
There is no legion of men begging to be buried next to you just to rest close to your beauty. There is no legion of artists and geniuses begging you to be their muse and to define their artistic movement.
Do you understand that for Simonetta to be immortalized in a painting she just had to be born pretty and maybe sit still in front of a canvas for a while, and for Boticelli to be immortalized he had to take previous centuries of art developments and other factors and transform them into something new?
There is no one willing to open all the doors to life for you because of your beauty.
There is no one willing to die for you or protect you or feed you on account of you being beautiful.

Yet for the Simonetta Vespuccis of the world all of the above is granted, just for being born with their bodies. I don't think any man can truly understand what this perspective feels like.

[Anonymous No.14674170]

>>14674145
there is no point in trying to blackpill normies.Try to enlighten those who just need a little nudge.Believe me,it's pointless.

[Anonymous No.14674194]

any good books on Renaissance Italy?
Specifically the families

[Anonymous No.14674210]

>>14674084
I guess you can have consolation in the thought that you're a human with your own will who can make contributions to the species and experience real sublimity, and not just a dull wallflower to pump baby-batter in (generally).

[Anonymous No.14674215]

>>14674145
And do you know how fragile beauty is?

[Anonymous No.14674274]

>>14674120
>I can tell you that for a woman beautiful enough most men would do similar things
He isn't "doing" anything for her. Wanting to be buried next to someone isn't a service to that person, and really only provides satisfaction to the person making the request.

>If one of them did it would be a start, but none of them have.
How many beautiful women do you even know? Do you think they would open up to you about their deepest troubles, given that your default position is one of contempt and jealousy? People can sense these things.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.14674295]

>>14674145
>There is no legion of men begging to be buried next to you just to rest close to your beauty
That’s a relief
I am the artist. Art and art infatuation often go hand in hand

>>14674170
I was “black pilled” before you were born. Dealing with that poison is Enlightenment.

>>14674215
I thought he might mention it in his op, but he veers away suddenly spooked.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.14674303]

>>14674145
>There is no legion of men begging to be buried next to you just to rest close to your beauty
That’s a relief
I am the artist. Art and infatuation often go hand in hand

>>14674170
I was “black pilled” before you were born. Dealing with that poison is Enlightenment.

>>14674215
I thought he might mention it in his op, but he veers away suddenly spooked.

[Anonymous No.14674304]

>>14674084
>It is told that Boticelli begged to be buried in the same church as Simonetta Vespucci, just to rest close to her beauty, and he was buried there indeed.
Sounds like an morbid obsession, reminds me of Heathcliff in Wuthering Heights.

[Anonymous No.14674373]

>>14674274
>How many beautiful women do you even know?
A handful, some personally, some indirectly (like actresses, models and whatnot). None of them talk about this, and I don't think it's just because of me.
From old emperors to famous actors to philosophers to monks, you have people talking about existential dread. It is this universal theme on the writings of men, throughout time. Even if they were hiding it from their immediate friends like you say, they didn't hide it from society at large.
You keep claiming they also suffer from existential dread without showing examples.
>>14674303
>but he veers away suddenly spooked.
Oh, that's the Houllebecq gambit. In many of his books he bashes women and then makes them old, wrinkly and says there can be no suffering greater than becoming an old undesirable woman. I call that bullshit. Many would take those 30~40 years of pure bliss and figure out the rest of the shit later on at life. With some minor planning any Simonetta Vespucci can remain in a good life even after her beauty supposedly wilts away. (In some women this might take much longer).
It's not being spooked, it's just an irrelevant argument.

[Anonymous No.14674379]

>>14674145
Fuck that shit. I would never want to be Simonetta, in your narrative (which is obviously not realistic) she is nothing, just empty, a beautiful thing to be admired but nothing else. I would never want to be that.
But I would devote my life to be a 10th of what Boticelli was, a genius, someone who not only understood and appreciated beauty but could create it.
There is no value in having 'the doors to life' opened for you, you will find nothing beyond. The only thing that matters is opening them yourself.
When I see someone devouting their life to their muse it is her I feel pity for, not the man.

[Anonymous No.14674394]

You have just been perverted by the meritocracy bullshit, some people are just born better. But remember that a beautiful women at that time wasn't really the same as a modern instagram thot.

[Anonymous No.14674403]

>>14674379
All throughout your journey of the hero towards becoming 10% of what Boticelli was, Simonetta lives peacefully without worries.
You pity her, she doesn't even acknowledge your frame of reference, much less you as a person.
You might say you prefer an existence of suffering if this leads you to create greater beauty, but I believe that's just hubris on your part. But regardless of any of this, Simonetta exists somewhere, not suffering with these questions we pose to each other.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.14674419]

>>14674373
Right. I think most women know and accept the life cycle, how can we not? Some more content with it than others of course. Some get into a panic over the “biological clock”, but from my perspective, I am as happy to head into menopause childless as a woman with kids heading to college or getting married.
I don’t see this mystery going on ITT. What’s the trouble?
Make me want to start on pick related

[Anonymous No.14674421]

Masculine energy and feminine energy are meant to bounce off each-other and support each side. Girls want an idealized man and women want a trusting companion that respects their innocence.

[Anonymous No.14674433]

>>14674084
Your perspective implies that activity is undesirable and passivity is desirable. This is, unironically, a consequence of your sedentary lifestyle and imageboard habits. That's how mind-numbingly banal the genealogy of your views are. /r9k/ blackpills are for absolute turboplebs.
Spiritual oblomovism is not a virtuous or desirable trait. If you crave an existence with nothing but calm peace of mind and joy, I suggest you find a decently paying job that doesn't require any presence of mind, live frugally and take up a heroin habit.

[Anonymous No.14674450]

>>14674403
The questions we posses, the path we take to greatness or happiness is not a curse however hard it may be. It is what makes life worth living. It is the meaning that she lacks, empty life like that of most people.
The only thing that matters is Dante and his journey, Beatrice is nothing in the end, even if she is the ultimate reason for it all.
What makes us is our experiences, our thoughts. A life of mindless pleasure is not worth anything.
It is the self sacrifice to reach something that makes the end result enriching, without it, everything would be worthless.

Anyway, women aren't like that, they have their own journeys, vital to them even if they might seem trivial to us.

[Anonymous No.14674459]

>>14674433
>This much projection.
Activity is not undesirable. Suffering is undesirable. If you read the post you'd see I mention activity has not allowed men to escape the existential dread. Yet at the same time for those extreme beauty cases, that escape comes even without activity.

This is not a case against activity. This is about how to cope with having no access to that same frame of existence. Of knowing that no amount of action can give me the same perspective.
>I suggest you find a decently paying job that doesn't require any presence of mind, live frugally and take up a heroin habit.
Most of our generation does this and suicides and depression are at an all time high.

[Anonymous No.14674484]

>>14674450
But your example seems to follow exactly what I say. While Dante challenges himself passing through Hell and Purgatory, Beatrice is awaiting for him in heaven.
When he reaches heaven, she is the one that guides him to god. Are you trying to imply that living in heaven close to god is somehow "empty"?
And even further on, why is Beatrice even a thing in the first place? Because Dante, in his real life, met Beatrice Portinari, a woman he found beautiful, on some party. That's it. His fantasy for her is so strong he wrote this entire foundational work of language. And what was Beatrice? A pretty woman in a party, that he was too scared to even approach by some accounts.

[Anonymous No.14674487]

>>14674084
>women do this one things and men do this one things and the women things is better
what an elaborate tranny post

[Anonymous No.14674492]

>>14674459
>Suffering is undesirable
Lol, pussy

[Anonymous No.14674496]

>>14674492
suffering is undesirable, but desire is for faggots and women

[Anonymous No.14674500]

>>14674459
How trite. I'll leave you with a quote from Nietzsche:

>The reabsorption of semen by the blood is the strongest nourishment and, perhaps more than any other factor, it prompts the stimulus of power, the unrest of all forces toward the overcoming of resistances, the thirst for contradiction and resistance.
Perhaps you should swallow instead of spit after sucking cocks, OP.

[Anonymous No.14674528]

>>14674500
I always assumed this quote was from some medieval chinese medical text. They often say stuff along these lines, anyway

[Anonymous No.14674533]

>>14674084
I love seeing the NPC's desperately try to cope when you point this stuff out to them. One minute, "You're a loser because no one wants to have sex with you" and the next "I wouldn't want to be inundated with praise and attention just for being pretty. That sounds worse than no attention at all."

[Anonymous No.14674537]

>>14674484
I would prefer the journey over the waiting in heaven. That is the whole point. When you look back on your life you will appreciate your deeds.
There is no journey for Beatrice, no meaning. There is for Dante.

Anyway don't assume that women don't have this thoughts. And don't assume men can't be this end goal, this object of obssesion, read Death in Venice for example.
You are trying to rationalize your misogynia through a fundamwntally flawed philosophy.
That empty hedonism will take you nowhere. Find what is worth it and fight for it, you will revel in the suffering you endured in the end.
There is a pulsion for autodestruction, for Thanatos, that must ultimately be fulfilled.

[Anonymous No.14674542]

>Born working class
>Nobody respects you
>Women actively wince when they find out your class
>Nobody believes you're capable of anything even if you have proof

It's cool having you entire humanity valued on an economic system!

[Anonymous No.14674548]

>>14674542
What about working class women?

[Anonymous No.14674549]

>>14674500
He died of syphilis.

[Anonymous No.14674558]

>>14674548
Seems to be largely the same shitty judgments, at least where I live. (UK)

[Anonymous No.14674567]

i think you underestimate the amount of work that beautiful women have to put into maintaining their appearance. have you ever known any, been in a relationship with one?

their whole persona and live revolves around maintaining it. often, underneath, there is not much. crippling emptiness... caring to an insane degree what other people think, not having any love for themselves except from what attention they get from other people...

beautiful people suffer an untold type of suffering that people who consume their beauty can't conceive of

[Anonymous No.14674568]

>>14674542
>Women actively wince when they find out your class

They wince because you tell them. The only thing people care about is your job, which often does speak a fair bit about a person. If it's that big of a deal, go in debt and buy a nice car. That'll be all the "proof" anyone cares about.

[Anonymous No.14674575]

>>14674537
I don't hate women, if anything I envy them. It's not the same thing.
What you seem to be failing is that you need to rationalize your suffering to cope with this, while Beatrice is in heaven all along. It's extreme hubris for you to say her life is less meaningful or worthy or etc. No suffering will always be better than suffering. All of the history of men is just a long (mostly failed) attempt to cope with this.
Also you are generalizing in bad ways to discredit my argument, but I never said women can't suffer. Most of them do. I'm talking about the Beatrices and Simonettas of the world. Not about the mistreated sex slaves, sweatshop workers, victims of abuse and disfigured forgotten women that exist in every continent.
It's more than obvious that women can suffer, and some of them do, tremendously, unfairly. Yet you still have those extremely beautiful ones who know joys beyond what any of us might imagine.
Perhaps in a way those other forgotten women know pains hard for us to imagine as well, but I feel at least I have read literature by those and understand their plight.

[Anonymous No.14674585]

beautiful people are often talked about like everything is easier for them. there are studies about this, that people help them out much more readily, etc etc etc

what those studies don't capture is when those relationships advance beyond that point. when people realize they can't possess the beautiful person, that attraction quickly turns to hate, resentment, frustration. it makes it very difficult for beautiful people to sustain relationships with other people. then there becomes a permanent distance between them and others, which they fill even more with their attempts to get more attention and be more beautiful

[Anonymous No.14674589]

>>14674549
no he didn't foul witch whore

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.14674595]

>>14674549
He didn’t.

[Anonymous No.14674626]

>>14674585
Perhaps the studies don't account for this because it doesn't happen how you imagine. Either make your own study or shut your mouth.

[Anonymous No.14674627]

>>14674575
>No suffering will always be better than suffering
There is no such thing as no suffering. A life without suffering is a myth, invented by opportunistic hucksters and propagated by guileless morons. Beautiful women suffer, just as constantly as a successful, strong man does. Beauty is cultivated, always — it cannot arise from passivity as you seem to suggest. It is your own imagination that creates these "joys beyond what any of us might imagine." There is joy in being wanted, but there is also pain there.

[Anonymous No.14674632]

>>14674568
It bothers me, but not enough to go in to debt.

[Anonymous No.14674633]

>>14674626
Muh rationality and empiricism

[Anonymous No.14674640]

>>14674567
Based.

[Anonymous No.14674664]

>>14674567
Beautiful people don't have to maintain shit. You think Simonetta Vespucci had to hit the gym, do botox surgeries and hire a make up artist?
I think you're imagining a pop star type of figure, and that's not the case being discussed.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.14674666]

>>14674626
It is true that not even beautiful people have it made. Not even money brings complete happiness. Geez.

[Anonymous No.14674671]

>>14674626
not every truth in the universe has been represented, or is easy to represent, in a study. i'm not a goddam scientist and i've got other things i care a lot more about. ye twat.

[Anonymous No.14674675]

>>14674664
These are all modern inventions. But she did probably eat well, dress well, get a decent amount of exercise, and use makeup. Not to mention the way in which she carried herself, which counts for a lot.

[Anonymous No.14674676]

>>14674567
Ridiculously and reductively false. I dated a girl who was hounded actively to be a model since she turned 15. She spent just as much if not less time on keeping up her appearance as anyone else I've dated and lived with. Beauty is a natural thing that no amount of work can compensate for. This is why I admire physical strength and fitness over beauty.

What I admired about this girl was she feared her own beauty. She saw that doors were opened for her just by existing and refused to take those paths. She wanted to forge an identity that demanded acknowledgement that she was more than just a beautiful object. It helped that she was very intelligent in addition to being beautiful.

[Anonymous No.14674684]

>>14674664
a lot of attractiveness is in the way that people carry themselves, not just the objective construction of their faces. their confidence and self image reflected in the facial expressions they often make. this has also been proven in studies.

maintaining that type of persona inevitably comes with its own caveats. it's not all fucking roses.

[Anonymous No.14674687]

>>14674084
with age, beauty fades quickly. with age, the mind becomes sharper. Physical beauty is nothing compared to mental beauty. You live in the cave of shadows anon. My heart goes out to your inferior mental state.

[Anonymous No.14674694]

>>14674575
You are a literal tranny.

[Anonymous No.14674706]

>>14674676
she was also confirmed externally of her beauty over and over and over again from a young age, thus solidifying the self image as a beautiful person. it was cemented into her persona. then she carried herself like a beautiful person, and with that, suffered the things that only beautiful people suffer

you can tell in photos of people who is confident and who is not. the less confident they appear, the less attractive their appearance. this is also a natural thing. many celebrities, models are lacking in much, but make up for it in confidence

[Anonymous No.14674714]

>>14674633
>>14674666
>>14674671
Sorry that I didn't buy some idiot's fantasy about "possessing" beauty. Do people stop caring about a famous athlete because they can't possess them? It's fucking absurdity that beauty would make it harder for people to sustain relationships. I see no evidence of this phenomenon and I'm calling it out for being the retarded fantasy that it is.

[Anonymous No.14674722]

>>14674714
parasocial relationships are entirely different than actual social relationships, you fucking penis

[Anonymous No.14674739]

>>14674714
i think the whole idea that beautiful people have everything made for them is a fucking fantasy in itself that people tell themselves to justify why their lives are so fucking difficult. believing in that particular fantasy serves a particular psychological purpose

[Anonymous No.14674750]

>>14674739
it's called envy and these responses are a grade A example of C O P E

[Anonymous No.14674752]

>>14674722
Put up the evidence or shut up. Where are all the testimonies of this phenomenon from the source? Surely someone would write about it.

[Anonymous No.14674754]

>>14674687
You still miss the point. You, me, the women we love and marry or whatever. We might be all intellectually gifted and live appreciating each other's "mental beauty". Yet we will suffer for it, physically and mentally, trying to reach those heights of peace and serenity.
These things come easier to people who are beautiful, even if they are stupid. Perhaps especially if they are stupid.

[Anonymous No.14674762]

>>14674752
there are many territories of human experience that have yet to be investigated and written about. the fact that it has not yet been written about or experimented upon says nothing about the objective nature of the truth

this is some pretty fundamental shit. clearly a brainwashed pseud. believing that all truth has to be represented in a study to truly be the truth. suck it faggot.

[Anonymous No.14674764]

>>14674084
That's a very unfair thing to say. I doubt Simonetta Vespucci didn't feel any existential dread when she was slowly dying of tubercolosis at age 23 or so. Also read more diaries and books by female authors, Anais Nin is just one person

[Anonymous No.14674768]

>>14674754
Socrates was always described as an ugly fuck and he was still getting boipussy left and right. Socrates was shitposting making young handsome aristocrats seethe.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.14674777]

>>14674754
>These things come easier to people who are beautiful
No. Life comes easier to those who have a better perspective on life. *beauty is skin deep* and *in the eyes of the beholder*
Stop whining.

[Anonymous No.14674783]

>>14674752
maybe it has been written about, and you just haven't read it yet...

[Anonymous No.14674784]

>>14674194
Begin with Burckhardt's classic The Civilization of the Renaissance in Italy-- among other things it's a great introduction to some of the more enduring power families Medici, Sforza, etc.

[Anonymous No.14674788]

>>14674777
>No. Life comes easier to those who have a better perspective on life.
this X1000000

[Anonymous No.14674790]

>>14674145
You're going to great lengths just to be angry. The only people who know about Vespucci are Renaissance enthusiasts, and everyone that's read a book knows Boticelli. How is she immortal? What does the fact that he was a dramatic fag prove about the relations between women and men? Do you think the cute twinks these same painters used as models and then lusted over didn't experience the exact same easy life as Vespucci?

[Anonymous No.14674794]

>>14674084
You realize beauty doesn't mean a guy will marry them, just have sex with them.

[Anonymous No.14674795]

this thread has incel written all over it.

not that i hate incels, or want to make fun of them. i empathize with the plight of the incel. there are just definitely ways they think about things that solidify them into becoming so stereotypical. which is why we have the stereotype, "incel".

[Anonymous No.14674798]

>>14674762
You are going to sit there with a straight face and say something as archaic as appearance has not been documented. This isn't some xenoestrogen mutant tranny siberian immigrant experience. This is beauty, something which has been exhaustively depicted. The level of denial is unreal. Explain to me how a trait which generates attraction by its existence leads to difficulty sustaining relationships.

[Anonymous No.14674825]

>>14674798
1. much of beauty is not in objective facial/body structure. it's in confidence, and the way someone carries / sees themselves. there are studies on this.
2. the personality type that sustains a self image of beauty, to a degree perhaps objectifying oneself, deriving value from external praise of beauty... inevitably leads to conflicts. objectifying oneself and being objectified by others leads to countless predictable conflicts. especially when one learns to find value by encouraging their own objectification. there is also a lot that has been written about this, though not specifically relating to beautiful people

other things have already been explained. like, being beautiful might make people want to help you, but when they realize that the ardor will never be returned, it creates distance instead of the closeness that the concept of "attraction" suggests

be careful with those dogmas

[Anonymous No.14674834]

>>14674825
How do you project emotions?

[Anonymous No.14674851]

>>14674084
"With girls, Nature has had in view what is called in a dramatic sense a "striking effect," for she endows them for a few years with a richness of beauty and a, fulness of charm at the expense of the rest of their lives; so that they may during these years ensnare the fantasy of a man to such a degree as to make him rush into taking the honourable care of them, in some kind of form, for a lifetime—a step which would not seem sufficiently justified if he only considered the matter. Accordingly, Nature has furnished woman, as she has the rest of her creatures, with the weapons and implements necessary for the protection of her existence and for just the length of time that they will be of service to her; so that Nature has proceeded here with her usual economy. Just as the female ant after coition loses her wings, which then become superfluous, nay, dangerous for breeding purposes, so for the most part does a woman lose her beauty after giving birth to one or two children; and probably for the same reasons."

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/11945/11945-h/11945-h.htm#link2H_4_0009

[Anonymous No.14674864]

>>14674627
There is joy in being wanted, but there is also pain there.
Not him, I wanna know about this kind of pain.

[Anonymous No.14674886]

>>14674864
because very often the people that want you don't want the Real you, the you you are on the inside. they want an image of you they've worked up.

[Anonymous No.14674891]

>>14674084
Apparently "all rights and no responsibilities" is the catchphrase of today, no wonder we are in decline. Women are responsible for the continuation of the species, men for its well-being. Be a man and accept responsibility. You can start by getting a job.

[Anonymous No.14674895]

>>14674403

Simonetta is a vapid lump of flesh by your own definition. fuck that gay shit.

[Anonymous No.14674901]

>>14674851
based schopiebro

[Anonymous No.14674903]

>>14674795
>>14674777

these two posts encapsulate something very important that I feel like are going to get drowned out in other bullshit in this thread

[Anonymous No.14674935]

>>14674825
We have a fundamental disagreement. Beauty is objective facial/body structure to me. I'm not interested in the variability of moment to moment expression when defining beauty. I don't care if attractiveness increases with a smile. That kind of attraction and beauty exist on entirely different planes in my perception.

[Anonymous No.14674953]

>>14674935
> Beauty is objective facial/body structure to me.

maybe that's what you think, but, there are studies disproving this dogmatic belief. look into it.

[Anonymous No.14674955]

>>14674935
Fool that you are, thinking you can recognize anything objective

[Anonymous No.14674973]

it doesn't really bother me. anything becomes abominable when you invest it with your anxieties

[Anonymous No.14674976]

>>14674935
There is no point talking to these people about this, they'll just lie and lie. You could probably get one of them to say Andrea Dworkin is hotter than Jennifer Connolly just to save face

[Anonymous No.14674981]

>>14674955
A man is a damned fool. But a man who replaces his sincere foolishness with vacuous doubt is an insincere worm.

[Anonymous No.14674990]

>>14674976
I've always preferred thicker women myself. Dripping wet pussies.

[Anonymous No.14674996]

>>14674976
Believing in any objective beauty is the real lie

[Anonymous No.14675001]

>>14674981
I am sure. You are the one with doubt, who feels the need to say this is right, that is wrong, and so on

[Anonymous No.14675025]

>>14674084
Everyone who passes through this life must suffer...

Wise people of either sex usually have not a few fears. As the saying goes, bravery is not lack of fear, but contending with fear. If you are on the path of wisdom, you will have fears and sorrows, but that path leads to life and safety, if you have no fears or sorrows, it likely means you are headed in the wrong direction entirely.

Many women and many men, are idiots, and don't possess any existential angst for no other reason than that they don't think reflectively whatsoever. They are leading, as Socrates put it "unexamined lives." The goal when seeking a mate is to find someone who is wise, and women who are wise do exist. This is why many men discover that they married a nervous wreck, filled with all kinds of burdensome problems. This only means that they found someone who isn't an airhead and hence thinks about the problems they have and want to share them and get help from the one they trust most. There's a reason why the so-called ultra hot women are off limits; ultra hot translates into ultra insane because their beauty leads to inappropriate self-satisfaction and an undying belief that they can do no wrong.

In short, Simonetta Vespucci was likely an insane bitch; not peaceful, but rather a turbulent, raging sea that no sensible man would throw himself into.

[Anonymous No.14675048]

>>14674084
>It is told that Boticelli begged to be buried in the same church as Simonetta Vespucci, just to rest close to her beauty, and he was buried there indeed.
>Do you understand this? One of the legendary artists that toiled and studied

he might be a legendary artist, but his game is non-existent

[Anonymous No.14675077]

>>14674084
I really like your jump from
>beautiful women
in the first line to basically just
>women
in the last paragraph. That's pretty sneaky and well-executed sleight-of-hand.
Now to be honest OP, I wish what you said were true, because that would mean at least a not ridiculously small category of human manage to effortlessnly reach lifelong happiness. That'd be beautiful if that were true. Imagine if 1 in 30 children grew up to keep his innocence and joy while possessing the freedom of an adult ? People would pay to have those people in their houses.

Unfortunately that's not the case. Look at models, look at beautiful actresses, most of them live in a swamp of drug abuse, sexual abuse, anxiety, depression and occasionnally suicide, not to mention the fear of aging which is especially poignant even for the most well-balanced of them.

Besides I don't think the dream of someone ike Michelangelo or someone like Bach was sitting on his pretty ass looking fabulous and doing nothing. Those men got to do not only good stuff but some of the best stuff. Beethoven was deep in music, so possessed by his work that he kept composing after losing his hearing, and he kept improving and even made some of his best work. How do you top that ?

[Anonymous No.14675091]

Rich in material is not the same as rich in life.

[Anonymous No.14675126]

So this thread is basically on one side people seething at OP, and on the other OP making a case without giving an actual argument.

All extremely beautiful women are by necessity exempt from existential dread? I fail to see the connection between beauty and existential angst. What's the argument/evidence for it? Only that Beatrice and Simonentta seemed to be like this?

[Anonymous No.14675127]

>>14675077
Finally an insightful post in this godforsaken thread

[Anonymous No.14675142]

>>14675077
>Besides I don't think the dream of someone ike Michelangelo or someone like Bach was sitting on his pretty ass looking fabulous and doing nothing.
That might not be the dream of a Simonetta either. Yet while she decides what her dream is, her existence is much less heavy than that of a Michelagelo or a Bach.
She might be remembered for less than those, but what does it matter, really.
Couldn't it be we ascribe so much meaning to being remembered for our works, and exalt the overcoming of suffering, precisely because we need a reason to cope with all this shit?
If you only tasted vinegar all your life, you don't know there are sweeter things out there, or whatever that saying is. So we must create religions, philosophies and entire thought frameworks to justify the benefits of drinking vinegar, while Simonetta is off to a side drinking tea and honey.

[Anonymous No.14675146]

>>14674084
Boticelli was a fag. Real Renaissance artists prized bussy above all else

[Anonymous No.14675175]

>>14675142
But the thing is, everyone knows sour is actually the best flavor and there many documented benefits of drinking vinegar

[Anonymous No.14675192]

>>14675146
You better not be talking smack about my man Botulitis !

[Anonymous No.14675243]

Why do some women transition to become men? Incels can't answer this question in good faith

[Anonymous No.14675249]

ywn be the dust bunny on virginia woolf's mother's foot

[Anonymous No.14675251]

>>14674433
>>14674500
What the fuck is this, pseud-hour?

[Anonymous No.14675289]

>>14674110
fpbp

Stop being envious. There are beautiful women who are born in a shitty part of the world and have to live in fucking holes and walk I don't know how many miles for hours.
Life is unfair get over it

[Anonymous No.14675605]

>>14675289
>Life is unfair get over it
Literally everyone who says this are the whiniest women in existence.

[Anonymous No.14675626]

>There are beautiful women who are born in a shitty part of the world and actually have to WALK on their own two FEET

[Anonymous No.14676132]

>>14674419
>I am as happy to head into menopause childless as a woman with kids heading to college or getting married.
We will all convert to Islam to stone you, hag

[Anonymous No.14676137]

>>14676132
its a tranny.

[Anonymous No.14676143]

>>14676137
Even better

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.14676149]

>>14676132
>>14676137
Dig your graves, whiners.

[Anonymous No.14676186]

dilate your inverted dick-sleeve, imposter.

[Anonymous No.14676226]

>>14674084
>implying the existential dread caused the creation of religions, philosophical lines, societal rules and entire cultures
>implying the existential dread existed before modernity

[Anonymous No.14676387]

>>14674120
>>14674084
>>14674373
>>14674575
>>14674676

There is a unique angst being an attractive woman, or even a above average one. You may not think its as legitimate, but I hope you at least consider it.

Being a man is a battle of attrition while being a woman is a matter of capitalizing on your youth.

If I were born a man, I would have a much longer time to improve myself before my true peak. Men can settle down as late as 35 and be perfectly fine, while as a woman would be a dried up husk of herself by then, far past her prime. By 25 I need to have settled down and started thinking about kids, any self maturing needs to be fast tracked so I can have a stable and well rounded mindset for raising children. This is handicapped by natures paradox. By having physical attraction an easy crutch for developing yourself, something which no one will tell you in normal life by the way, it makes it more difficult to mature in your emotions enough so that you can be a decent mother.
I have to learn how to get away from this crutch while having no idea exactly where it begins and ends. I have no solid grounding since this advantage is so inherent to being a women.

Even in the prime of my youth I constantly doubt all my interactions with people. I am intrinsically treated better by everyone around me for something I was born with. That same something that I know is temporary. This thing is always there, coloring my interactions with people, and hampering my ability to truly grow because everyone gives me slack. And I am fully aware of this, so I try to put myself in very aggressive spaces to make up for that slack. I always pretend to be a guy always online and interact with other men in that way. Because of this I think my personality is better developed than the average woman, but what if its not enough? What if once I age and my looks leave me im left with a stunted personality? what if all the friends I have unconsciously see me as a worse person because my beauty is gone? What of my husband, is it even possible for men to love women that they are not attracted to at all anymore? And all of these things need to be taken into account in your youth as a woman, while your still new to the world. Everything I have might be temporary and this is might just be a biological reality. These are heavy questions to have to deal with at 19.

Do you see how that could eat at you?

[Anonymous No.14676714]

>>14674084
Women don't get significant peace of mind just because they're pretty. A healthy human being is both a subject and an object in balance. Women may be admired more than men, but they are respected far less. When girls complain about how they don't have any friends and how they aren't popular, these aren't trifling problems to them. What they mean is that their agency as a subject is completely diminished and subservient to their appeal is an object. Most women strain as hard as they can to be subjects, and right now, many are failing. The opposite of an incel isn't a femcel, it's a woman with who has never had real friends, whose thoughts and opinions are constantly trivialized. If this doesn't seem that terrible to you, it's because it's so far removed from your own experience that you can't understand it.

[Anonymous No.14676883]

>>14676387
MILFs exist because they either have the genes or they didn't spend all their time on cosmetics and rather spent it on treadmills and diets. Look at fuckin Tulsi Gabbard god DAMN she is hot at 38.

Men get old and nasty same as women. There's plenty of ugly old men and chiseled old men, there's plenty of ugly old women and sleek silver fox old women.

>is it even possible for men to love women that they are not attracted to at all anymore?
No fucking shit. If you meant
>attracted to physically
Then yes, you'll know if a person wants a part of you or all of you. If you're chasing their inertia and vice versa it's not going to work and I feel bad for anyone that is forced to endure that roller coaster of a relationship.

You're talking with the awareness of everything going great for you and it's like you're just afraid it's going to stop going great for you. Makes me kind of upset. Like, I guess your feelings are valid, cause like, you're 19, but like, you seem to have a social life and physical attraction which breaks you through the gateways of social life and into the subtle social practices and exercises a lot of lonely men aren't getting.

>everyone gives me slack
See I get no slack whatsoever except from my parents. Whenever I'm in a room alone with a girl I'm just hoping she doesn't freak out since they're all so scared of getting raped it's so annoying. I can feel the constant vibe checking on me and it makes me want to punch them in the face.

[Anonymous No.14676919]

>>14676883
based. some men are handsome before their 30s and then they lose their hair. Nature is fickle and we are both it's plaything.

[Anonymous No.14677425]

>>14676883
>Men get old and nasty same as women. There's plenty of ugly old men and chiseled old men, there's plenty of ugly old women and sleek silver fox old women.

Sure, but the vast majority of women will age far worse than the vast majority of men. Not only this, but its pretty well documented how men value youth as the main variable in what they consider attractive.

> you seem to have a social life and physical attraction which breaks you through the gateways of social life and into the subtle social practices and exercises a lot of lonely men aren't getting.

Of course, and I acknowledge that, but what im saying is that there are trade offs can that lead to existential dread in women as well. The issue is not just that things might not be going well in the future, its that its all shallow. Its only going great because you look good now, and that has a lot of somber implications.

>See I get no slack whatsoever except from my parents. Whenever I'm in a room alone with a girl I'm just hoping she doesn't freak out since they're all so scared of getting raped it's so annoying. I can feel the constant vibe checking on me and it makes me want to punch them in the face.

Im not saying women don't have it easier, its just there is a trade off between the two. Women are playing life on easy mode, but they dont have the potential men do naturally. I mentioned this above but being a man is a battle of attrition while being a woman is a matter of capitalizing on your youth. All i'm saying is that there are legitimate problems women have to worry about, and they can lead to a lot of dread, especially when its taboo to even warn women of these things, leading to constant insecurity.

[Anonymous No.14677535]

>>14674886
there is no difference between inside and outside. there is no real you within

[JN !!vXXhA/qzhjm No.14677543]

>>14674084
>beautiful women effortlessly know a peace and joy that men, even beautiful ones, must break their backs and minds to achieve
Not so fast there incel. Dunno how strong your back is but I have a good idea about your mind

[Anonymous No.14678090]

>>14674084
You don't, your dead like the rest. Yes. This is how few men have ever really lived.

To live for flesh is to die to the spirit, and with a dead spirit there is only dust and shadow my friend.

Understand John 3:3.

[Anonymous No.14679272]

This whole thread is incredibly stupid and vapid. Zero substance in pretty much all posts. I'm glad I visit this board only once a year.