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/lit/ - Literature


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14889856 No.14889856 [Reply] [Original]

I'm an adult student (English Major), having gone back to finish my degree after several years.

My classes are full of kids who want to be writers, screenwriters, poets, etc, but have nothing that makes them interesting.

So much of their work, which is shared online and/or presented in class, can be summarized as: "Everyone, let me tell you about how hard it is to be me."

Do they think you have to be a depressing, shy, maladjusted bitch in order to create art? Of course artists used their sadness sometimes to create worthwhile pieces. But these kids come across as caricatures of "sad, sensitive artiste" as if being a pussy and reading one's poem about how hard it is to be black/female/gay/poor makes one an artist.

I just don't get it.

Why don't these kids present themselves with any pride, or at least attempt to not present all of their weakness?

When did it become required that in order to be a writer, you must present the character of a sad, self-absorbed fool, unwilling to analyze yourself or your work critically? Because that's all I see from these kids.

Help me understand.

>> No.14889875
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14889875

>>14889856
They are living up to a prototype represented in media. It's what makes them attractive and opens doors for them in normie-normie-land

On prototypes being the basis for attractiveness:
https://hotelconcierge.tumblr.com/post/140529495929

>> No.14889890
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14889890

This board (if not the whole site) also wallows in self pity.
They also ask how to define art, and I think this is an interesting back door kind of question to that.
Book related

>> No.14889919

>>14889856
>I'm an adult student (English Major)
There's your problem.

>> No.14889920

>>14889890
Interesting point. I personally am not looking to define art, as I know it's a fruitless idea.

It just seems as though all these students have agreed that "art" is one thing: bitching about your situation and expecting people to find it worthwhile for that reason alone.

And that the artist is one character and nothing else: a sad, self-pitying, developmentally-arrested whiner capable of presenting nothing else, and incapable of approaching one's work critically.

So basically exactly what you pointed out, but in a different place. Idk what /lit/s definitions are of "art" and "artist" but I dislike the idea that it can only be one thing and in order to be an artist or to create art, you must embody the specific archetype and that alone will make your shit worth reading.

>> No.14889925

>>14889919
Thank you for reminding me.

>> No.14889933
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14889933

>>14889890
Did you steal that from the public library too little miss edgelord?

>> No.14889937
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14889937

Academia currently preaches that the victim is king. Midwits eat it up and believe. The true kings on earth know that this is a lie.

>> No.14889957

>>14889920
Babay’s first art is normally about oneself. And whining is cathartic. Nothing new, and I understand your gripe. I don’t care how good Werther is, I doubt I’ll even read it.

>>14889933
The book? I took it from online. Books are free.

>> No.14889997

>>14889856
I graduated with an English degree last year, and heavily recommend that you change your major. Anyway, I pretty much met three types of writers:
>Arrogant neckbeard who criticized everybody's work, but would refuse to let anyone see the horror/scifi/fantasy masterpiece that he was writing
>Middle or upper-class fucks who wrote depressing and autobiographical stories about Millennial tribulations, all the while trying to emphasize how different they were
>"Insert minority here" people who fetishized their identity as a woman/queer/Italian/camelkin. Often very left-wing and political.

Very few of them seemed genuinely depressed or shy. I think those are just labels normies trying to look like artists attach themselves to, because they believe such traits make them "deep."

>> No.14890048
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14890048

>>14889997
OP here. I've met the first and third types, not the second yet but I know they're around.
I won't switch my major, but I definitely understand where you're coming from. For me, going back to school (on the govt dime bc liberal state and I'm old/poor enough to qualify) is about the professors.
Even with coronachan and the shutdown at my school, I have already set recurring appointments with my professors (I'm a commuter) to meet and talk about the material and whatnot. Honestly it's pretty sweet, because I get everything I want without the bother of dealing with other classmates.

The other week, one class got bogged down because we became stuck in the debate "Was James Joyce a feminist, or did he hate women?" using only "The Dead" for reference. I tried my hardest to move it along and spare my brain cells to no avail. I'll be excited to not deal with that going forward.

The library is awesome too, so I'm making the most of having that. It's a damn shame that so many of the students are just kids and don't realize how much information is available and how much they could learn if they just utilized it.

Currently, I have an excellent relationship with a particular professor because she's really supportive of my research paper (final paper for her class) on Heart of Darkness. So I'll be meeting with her every week to discuss my progress.

In regard to my thread, I would rather not deal too much with the other students. Even when given legitimate criticism on how to improve their work (not by me) they break down because "It's my LIFE" and therefore fuckin commas or general editing shouldn't be required apparently.

>> No.14890059

>>14889856
>at least attempt to not present all of their weakness
I was with you until this shit. Vulnerability is never wrong, the more the better, just gotta be careful not to mix it up with self-pity.

>> No.14890076

>>14890048
>liberal state and I'm old/poor enough to qualify
Ditto. Is there some social program I don't know about?

>> No.14890094

>>14890059
I don't consider vulnerability to be weakness, necessarily.
"Weakness" as I used in the thread-opener, is meant to describe more than vulnerability.

I mean it moreso like the following examples:
>Instead of taking criticism with self-control, they cry
>It was literally "Brittney, you might want to move this to there and this to this other place, it would make it easier to follow"
>Instead of defending their work, even if it really is excellent, they opt to "You just don't get it because you're not like me" (which could mean something identitarian or just literally you are not him so you don't get it)

Most of my examples are situations like those.
I don't consider using art to express your demons/vulnerabilities as weakness. But I do think that using art as a means of projecting self-pity is weakness. That may be a fine line, I am sure. May also be a hot take. But it's how I see it. And it only bothers me so much because it's literally every single student who presents their work in class, as if we were in group therapy and not a writing course.

>>14890076
Depends on your state. I'm NY and we have a number of programs.

>> No.14890143

>>14890094
college is designed to create a docile population of pink haired consumer cattle who depend on the managerial gynocratic state for constant validation.

>> No.14890150

>>14890094
>as if we were in group therapy and not a writing course
What's the difference? The job of a writer is to write, not sit there doing exercises and discussing others work. People who unironically go to college to learn how to write just look for validation, hence obviously get pissy if they don't get it.

>> No.14890153

>>14889856
>why are young people immature?
Gee OP, I have no idea.
In all seriousness, this mindset is just an echo of "art for art's sake" and the glorification of individualism in romantic/modernist lit that's survived into the present literary culture. Young authors are exposed to that kind of stuff and try to copy it, but never advance beyond a rude parody of the style since they're being taught in a public school system that targets the lowest common denominator. I've met people like the kids you describe, and I think many of them would have turned out to be better writers if they had received firmer criticism from their teachers.

>> No.14890161

>>14889875
That's too cowardly. One should rather strive to create his own archetype.

>> No.14890183

>>14890143
the point of an english degree is not to teach you to be a writer but to breed compliant biopolitical clientele for globalism through psychiatric mind control and marxist indoctrination. any 'literature' that comes out of such programs is not even meant to be read, as it exists primarily as the literature of soviet republics did, a simulacrum of ideologically correct literary production. Just as the people's nationalites could have their own literature if they towed the one correct party line, the politically correct victimhood constituencies in the cultural marxist ZOG NWO can pass themselves off as 'writers'(despite being for the most part too low IQ to reach a college reading level) if they tow the pc line. I am for one tired of the ceaseless screeching of the afformentioned victimhood constituencies and their shrill, evil 'marginalised voices'

>> No.14890195

>>14890150
Everyone who writes must first have learned how to write. Not necessarily in a college or other academic environment. But every writer learns to write. Just shitting your guts out onto a piece of paper may, in fact, qualify as "writing." But knowing how to take constructive criticism on writing is also important.
It isn't divine providence that gives someone the ability to write well (obviously dependent upon your taste). You have to practice at it and learn what works and what doesn't. Writing isn't, of course, some scientific calculation. And a child can write words on paper. It doesn't make it worth reading.

I understand that this is a hot take, and you are entitled to yours as well. It fits perfectly within the subjective field of literature. But no, I certainly do not expect the world of college students, however I do not respect the idea that vomiting words onto a paper, then crying because the professor said he didn't understand what you were trying to say is somehow beyond criticism.

>> No.14890198

>>14889856
A volatile reaction to a lack of life experience is quite common I've noticed

I imagine the only cure is to experience, but this would remove the volatility that creates their lackluster meaningless art and their ego is not developed(lack of experience) to deal with this

It is therefore a cycle that only time can chip away at

Don't deal with these people.

>> No.14890199

>>14889856
I used to be like this, hopefully I am not anymore. It gets you easy pussy if you already have the natural aptitude for it, all you do is rely on latent talent, dress cool, have good taste and then have shit handed to you by everyone. However in the long run it is just voluntarily ruining your development as a person, because you never put any effort in to do something genuine. I've become older and I realize how little substance I actually had and probably still have, it feels pretty shit. Also, they're still kids as you say (and as I was), and it's pretty much encouraged everywhere through supply and demand that 'sad, depressed troubled artist makes the best art', so everyone tries to emulate it.

>> No.14890202

>>14890161
Apologies for just throwing the link at everyone w/o a synopsis.
>"And if this essay has a clean conclusion, it’s that nobody cares about most of what you say or do. They care about the prototype you communicate. They care how you fit into their story."
>"(narcissists and rationalists) have the same basic problem: an inability to stick to the script. The solution is to pick a character, write down your values, and commit."

Trying to be original is exactly what he's arguing you should not try. Part of the reason:
https://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2012/12/funeral.html
Also see part IV. of the one I linked before.

Do note that most of his point is that you should choose the prototype you already overlap with the most, ie the one that comes most "authentically" to you. But it must be recognizable to others.

The reason I like the essay so much is that, as Tarde points out, we hopelessly imitate others already, it's just that "original" / "authentic" people tend to draw from too wide and disparate of influences. He's only suggesting to communicate your prototype more concisely, and intentionally. As in, own up to what we're already doing subconsciously (but poorly).

>> No.14890217

>>14890161
>>14890202
Here's the concise version:
https://youtu.be/S_mFK_e4KWs

>> No.14890220

>>14890199
What bothers me about it is that simply presenting the image of "sad, depressed, troubled artist" doesn't *make* someone an artist. They're essentially putting on the costume before memorizing their lines, if that metaphor works.
Everyone has issues, and writers certainly have used their troubles to create worthwhile pieces. But I don't personally enjoy how my classmates (in multiple classes) feel the need to project their sadness as if trying to show that they're artistic in lieu of actually writing something.

>> No.14890257

>>14890220
The metaphor doesn't work because your complaint is specifically that they're not "real" under their act, then you use a literal actor as a metaphor.

See again: >>14889875 and >>14890202

You're an actual adult complaining that teenagers are "kinda shallow". Now go read something I've linked, for your own sake

>> No.14890280

>>14890195
>But knowing how to take constructive criticism on writing is also important.
Definitely. Although it's easy to move into murky territory when paying too much attention to criticism weakens your work. IMO it's better to save up for a time when the writer is more mature about the craft (from actually writing) to be able to deal with criticism in a productive way instead of just following whatever the bigwig tutor or students say, or the other extreme of "u no understand mah genius".

Take someone like the Twilight author or the 50 Shades chick, any English lit student would've easy found millions of flaws in the stuff, would the works be as successful if they were more polished? Who knows.

Also obviously agree with you that writing is something that people learn. It just doesn't sound too effective when you're not spending the majority of the learning time actually, well writing. Learning about the tools of the craft and getting feedback are crucial as well, but the whole academia approach seems suboptimal to say the least, hence also attracts far more people with nothing to say instead of actual writers who want to learn ways how to say what they have to say.

>> No.14890323

>>14890202
I had seen the essay posted here before and had read it closely. If it was posted by you, then thank you for the good recommendation. I quite liked the analysis and I had some similar thoughts myself, but I must say disagreed with the conclusion. Sticking to the pre-established paths is perhaps good advice for most people, but I cannot in good conscious make myself a mere imitator. I have of course my idols whom I revere and learn from, but I imagine my ideal end result to be, though similar, still different from theirs — I aim to forge own archetype. I am aware that this might mean I should pay a price, that is, of not fitting into people's narratives and hence not being appreciated by them. If that is the price, then I say it is too little.

>> No.14890337

anyone else use megalomania as inspiration for writing

>> No.14890354

>>14890337
Who doesn't? Although for me it comes and goes and is never THE driving factor.

>> No.14890356

>>14890183
nice jargon, was there an opinion buried in there?

>> No.14890357

>>14889856
Because every artist is garbage when they first begin. People aren't born with good ideas. It's like how scientists never begin with the perfect hypothesis.

>> No.14890360

>>14890323
>Sticking to the pre-established paths
Please read the essay "Funeral" linked in that post. It's short and you need to hear it
>I cannot in good conscious make myself a mere imitator.
You mean you're not ready to acknowledge that most of your behaviors are habitual, not carefully decided, and that those habits were picked up in no other way than imitation? What exactly do you lose by slightly shifting to a more socially-recognized version of yourself?
>If that is the price, then I say it is too little.
If that were true, you wouldn't care enough to have this conversation, because it's strictly about how good but underappreciated guys can use a real-life cheat code to be recognized, accepted, and benefitted by normies

It's not about lying so much as it's about creating, mind you. Creating the "Superman" to your Clark Kent, although that is overstated...

>> No.14890361

>>14890337
How 2 do this without writing twelve chapters of "I Am Very Clever"?

>> No.14890368

>>14890361
easy, you write them and then edit them so you end up with "I Am Not That Clever But It Turns Out I'm Not Awful Either"

>> No.14890386

>>14890368
but that is the type of story i'm trying to avoid... i'd rather go for "I Am So Awfully Clever That I Suppress Both Attributes For Fear of Being Found Out"

>> No.14890408

>>14890386
Give that role to some secondary character who serves as a foil or even antagonist. If you write from their POV you get an even more direct release without swallowing up the entire story in your own ass.

>> No.14890456

>>14889856
>muh brown skin
>muh vag
>muh holocaust
>i broke myself, watch me bleed...
conspicuous suffering, squeaky wheel gets the empathy grease.

>> No.14890550

>>14890360
>Funeral
I just read it. I should clarify I don't mean pre-established paths are undesirable only by their being already established. Quite the opposite, whenever I don't know what to do I tend to be the most conservative, and especially when other people's interests are concerned. However, if it is my life that I'm steering and that I and I alone am to be affected by it, and further, that I *know* following my own way is better for my self than what is orthodox, I don't see why not to do this. Accordingly, I don't believe the essay is addressing me.
>You mean you're not ready to acknowledge that most of your behaviors are habitual, not carefully decided, and that those habits were picked up in no other way than imitation?
That is quite precisely not what I mean. I know the basics of psychology enough not to be such a fool. In fact, I mentioned how I follow my idols whenever I see fit. I just don't blindly imitate them and I don't want to adopt their archetypes.
>What exactly do you lose by slightly shifting to a more socially-recognized version of yourself?
I don't believe that is even possible. No version of what I aim to be is even present in the public consciousness. For me to do what you suggest, the change would not at all be slight.
>If that were true, you wouldn't care enough to have this conversation
I'm sure it's not an easy task to penetrate my mind behind pixels of your screen, zeroes and ones of your browser and operating system, and electrical currents corresponding to them, packets of data sent through the sea, possibly from another side of the globe, all from where I am sitting behind my own screen. Thank you for being my first — and last — psychiatrist.
>it's strictly about how good but underappreciated guys can use a real-life cheat code to be recognized, accepted, and benefitted by normies
I acknowledged it could be helpful for most people, though not for me.
>It's not about lying so much as it's about creating, mind you.
But that is what I'm trying to do, not what the essay prescribes. Could you elaborate on how it's creating?

>> No.14890561

>>14889856
Good thing /lit/ isn't like that

>> No.14890633

>>14890550
You called my suggestion "too cowardly", but then "acknowledged it could be helpful for most people". Note that it wasn't even necessarily a suggestion, just helping OP understand why kids act that way.

Reread your posts. 12 occurrences of "I" in >>14890323 alone, not counting "me", "my" etc. You're taking it too personally and it shows, given your commitment to coming off as "coolly detached".

>> No.14890672

>>14890633
>You called my suggestion "too cowardly", but then "acknowledged it could be helpful for most people". Note that it wasn't even necessarily a suggestion, just helping OP understand why kids act that way.
I apologize if my comment was offensive, since that wasn't my intention. Keep in mind that something could be helpful and still cowardly. In fact, I believe Kant here agrees with me in his essay "What is Enlightenment?"
>Enlightenment is man's release from his self-incurred tutelage. Tutelage is man's inability to make use of his understanding without direction from another. Self-incurred is this tutelage when its cause lies not in lack of reason but in lack of resolution and courage to use it without direction from another.

>Reread your posts. 12 occurrences of "I" in >>>14890323 (You) alone, not counting "me", "my" etc. You're taking it too personally and it shows, given your commitment to coming off as "coolly detached".
All of my "I"s were in response to your "you"s in this post: >>14890360. I count 9 "you"s in there. Not sure why you insist I'm too engaged here.

>> No.14890685

>>14890357
good post. I'd also like to add that Writer is a glamorous job, just like actor, singer, and athlete. Kids flock to these activities, so of course there will be a broad base of ignorance and egos, just as in any adolescent social order. And in the case of writing it takes longer to discern that one has little talent for it, since it isn't a physical activity and isn't bound as harshly to genetics.

>> No.14890698

>>14890672
>Not sure why you insist I'm too engaged here.
It's probably due to the fact that, as mentioned, you've seen me post the article before, and we probably just picked up the previous convo unthinkingly while the rest of the thread ignores us.

It's just you and me pal, the only two people who can see one another's posts apparently. Mods shadow-quarantined us into our little sandbox to let the normies continue along the lines of "what's the deal with that?" "I knowwww, it's cray, right?"

>> No.14890723

>>14890698
That would be too based. What did you think of my other posts today? I was mostly effort-posting (though no one seemed to notice).

Despite our disagreements I enjoyed the conversation. For further reference, I believe Carl Jung has said a thing or two about these prototypes and how we should deal with them, though I still haven't read him in depth. Maybe you might find his writings on the topic useful.

>> No.14890739

>>14889856
The vast majority of writing students will never be published or have any of their work made into film, etc. The only ones who will ever have any success in our lives are those scum who pander to cultural marxism. This began long ago (1960s) and it will continue long after we're gone. Feminist, multikulti garbage is all that gets published. Rest assured, these dilletants you speak of will never be published.
Analyze yourself? In a perfect world. Though I really do appreciate your heart, and would probably actually like to read what you write.

>> No.14890745
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14890745

>>14890723
>effort-posting
>no one seemed to notice
Preaching to the choir, though my shadow-sandbox theory should console us for all the (You)'s we missed out on.

>> No.14890797

>>14889856
>but have nothing that makes them interesting.
is this real? do brainlets really think that originality is still a thing in 2020, as opposed to before globalization. How can somebody be devoid of any historical knowledge.

>> No.14890811
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14890811

>>14889856
as a borderline thirdworlder (russkie), the young westerners' obsession with self-pity is mindblowing. maybe if they valued the actual struggle to get better over the very state of misery and opression, young people would boast about their achievements, not how fucking sad they are
pic: "vent" channel in a server about horses

>> No.14891014

I personally think that people who are misanthropes, depressed, particularly emotional, or feel alienated in some way tend to turn to literature. Add to this a fundamental feature of recent generations, a sort of existential angst. That’s all there is to it really.

>> No.14891492

>>14889919
>>14889856
Why are you throwing stones at them on the Internet? Have mercy and help them. All I see is as much lack of maturity as a typical lit poster.

Maybe part of their problem is the generation above them never gave them a good example and they followed their elders selfish degenerate influences...

>> No.14891512

>>14890360
You're damn dogmatic.

>> No.14891514
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14891514

>>14891014
Thanks Houellebecq. Also this is nothing new.

>> No.14891591

>>14890811
>le faggot rainbow outline
I don't know what else you would expect from those people

>> No.14891600

>>14889856
Young people have always been very self-centered and prone to melodrama. That being said, I think the fetishization of mental illness and victimization is particularly prevalent and trendy among zoomers and younger millennials. They think it makes them appear like they’ve more depth than they have the capacity for, but in reality they just want attention and sympathy.

>> No.14891744
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14891744

>>14890183

>> No.14891803
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14891803

Because creativity and originality are not common.

You can measure creativity empirically, and people have. For example, get 50 people to sit in a room and write down every use they can think of for a brick in half an hour. Some uses will be identified by all 50 people. Some people will identify uses that nobody else does. Creativity is the quantity of unique uses you can identify. It's RARE.

Even rarer is that any of those unique uses will actually be any good. Different usually means worse.

Why do bad artists produce derivative shit that mocks the great works? Because they're bad and derivative.

>> No.14891858

>>14891803
>Creativity is the quantity of unique uses
>this is your brain when the Dialectic of Enlightenment goes bad

>> No.14891864
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14891864

>>14891858
QQ more luddite.

>> No.14891875
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14891875

>>14891864
>implying I am against technology rather than the essence of technology

>> No.14891877
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14891877

>>14891875
They're the same.

Modernity is the inevitable culmination of a will to improve. Any desire to make your life better leads inevitably to skyscrapers and twitter - just as it must inevitably lead past them as well.

>> No.14891896

>>14891877
Unironically, read Cassirer for the non-blackpill version a critique of modernity and the essence of technology that doesn't throw technology out with the bath water. Form and Technology is the seminal text.

>> No.14891903

>>14891896
https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1057/9781137007773_2

I just read the abstract and it looks and reads like wank.

Feel like giving me the cliffnotes?

>> No.14891936

>>14891903
Nah. It's a short read. Perhaps it wont convince the fatalist.

>> No.14892429

>>14889856
petit bourgeois individualism

>> No.14892616
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14892616

>>14890356
>implying cultural marxists don't use senseless jargon all the time.

these people aren't going away on their own. the only way for all we hold dear implies a direct confrontation with the ideology of cultural marxism

>> No.14892635

>>14890356
>he values opinion

literally women or bourgeois

>> No.14892640

>>14889856
but being a sadfag is deep bro

>> No.14892645

>>14890220
It's a performance in itself. Henry Miller moaned about the artist type that sat around in cafes hitting on women and produced nothing in Tropic of Cancer, but in the end it was him who was sleeping in louse-infested hovels without a penny to his name

>> No.14892672

How do you write something personal while avoiding navel-gazing?

>> No.14893711

>>14892672
Carefully

>> No.14894301

>>14889856
I’m doing g creative writing and all my classmates want to be YA/Fantasy/Sci-Fi writers, I’m the only one with a serious interest in literature (not to brag or anything of course)

>> No.14894474

>>14894301
If you want to write, write whatever you want to, however it might seem right to you, instead of trying to guess what the market might like or other people on /lit/ might approve of.
In the best case scenario, you might end up getting published by some small press and get a yearly $20 check off sales from the book, but you should never suppose you'll be the next Joyce or Melville, since there's many other people who aspire exactly to that.

>> No.14894603

>>14889856
>When did it become required that in order to be a writer, you must present the character of a sad, self-absorbed fool, unwilling to analyze yourself or your work critically?
During communism/socialism. Everything was filtered by political censors, so if you wrote about how shitty living conditions you have, a member of the communist party usually got wind of it and you got a nicer place to live in. As long as you didn't complain about anything larger than yourself (which was by definition as good as it could get, literally heaven!) you were awarded anything your heart wished for. I know this because I read some journals/confessions of poets from an ex-commie country.
Even if you were not a writer/poet/screenwriter you had access to the mechanism, but only if you were a party member, see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-criticism#Communist_states

Other than this I don't really know what to tell you anon. That fox is pretty.

>> No.14894673

>>14890202
We don't want to influence others, we want to, and do, influence ourselves. However, we project the target - that is, our ideal selves - to all we interact with. We don't stick to the same arbitrary methodology like the stagnant portion, who can awaken, and from where more people can emerge from, do.
I prefer being gaslighted for every single difference I have to any situation where I am not different. I already see that I cannot be different enough.

>> No.14894736

>>14889856
art is to influence
you and them are too focused on this aspect of art.
sad shit influences people

>> No.14894777
File: 371 KB, 640x427, BigCheek.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
14894777

OP here, really wasn't expecting this to be as long a thread as it is.

Keep up the good shit, I'm glad we're actually having a conversation and not just "Is Guenon based"

>> No.14894828

The fact is that artists need time to mature. They need to create the shitty, self-absorbed bullshit are in order to further understand what a small corner of humanity they inhabit. The second phase is usually when the best work comes about, because a few of the characters might be an amalgam of the artist and some of the other "troubled" people he's met, but it will be subtle enough to be a plausible, balanced character. And it won't be a first-person narrator.

That's why I love how Nick Carraway is basically a straight-man in Gatsby, but he's still an interesting, cynical character himself. The novel would've sucked if it was narrated by Gatsby.

>> No.14894887

>>14890094
>"You just don't get it because you're not like me
Self-expression and originality memes of art over form and training within a tradition/school. This is further compounded and obfuscated by taste being largely incommensurable between different types of persons (for reasons that may or not be valid) -- and the level of education acquired by time of the people you're seeing is inadequate to appreciate the difference(s).

>in NY
A bicoastal elite state will confound things like this greatly (with every status chasing mofo from flyovers with chips on their shoulders flocking there, too).

>>14890153
>echo of "art for art's sake" and the glorification of individualism in romantic/modernist lit that's survived into the present literary culture
If they were lucky they got at least some grammar instruction and peer review before college, approximating composition lessons.

>>14890195
>must first have learned how to write.
The greater part being how to think. The craft in-itself can only bootstrap a facsimile of that so far before losing integrity.

>>14890202
>https://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2012/12/funeral.html
My N

>>14890280
>would the works be as successful if they were more polished?
People reading them have similar inner voices, judging by what and how they put in writing -- even then, the editor could have made them look better than they are with minor syntactic shuffling.

>> No.14895138

>>14894887
Well thought-out and commendable, anon

>> No.14895200
File: 15 KB, 293x499, 41hDrJ0RJ8L._SX291_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
14895200

>>14889890
based and art history-pilled

>> No.14895266

>>14890361
Make the character disabled. Literally wheelchair bound or something like that.

>> No.14895469

>>14895200
anyone got the download for this? Can't find on genlib or zlib

>> No.14896332

>>14891877
>Modernity is the inevitable culmination of a will to improve
It's the culmination of the will to degrade, demean and defile, actually. People don't laugh out of joy, they laugh for the humiliation. They don't build to improve, but to play money making games with cheap foreign labor, white flight, mortgages and bureaucracy. Our pseudo-brutalism kills individuality in cities. The population of a modern society is busy converting to judaism day in and day out. No one can say what's so good about game of thrones, but they were extremely excited about it all the same, and you were insane if you were not.
Jewish TV, jewish clickbait industry, jewish news, late night with a jew... jewish information in, jewish information out.
Everything is retarded because everyone is jewish.

>> No.14896849

Being totally honest my problem is that that I write in purple prose just like a lot of pretend authors do, except I’m not doing out of pretentiousness and I genuinely find complex writing fun.

Of course, this leads my work to feeling inauthentic which is bizarre since the intention is completely authentic.

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