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15394051 No.15394051 [Reply] [Original]

>we have no conception of self because our only sense of self is fictional and based on biased associations
Holy shit...

>> No.15394055

English people are stupid.

>> No.15394135

>>15394051
>>15394055

Describe 1 (one) thing in your stream of consciousness that is permanent and that could correspond to your idea of a permanent self

>> No.15394154

He's correct, but the East has been saying this for thousands of years

>> No.15394165

>>15394135
me

>> No.15394179

>>15394135
I have no reason to believe what I think isn't real so I wont.

>> No.15394186

>>15394135
The Unity of Apperception

>> No.15394197

>>15394135
>Describe 1 (one) thing in your stream of consciousness that is permanent and that could correspond to your idea of a permanent self
the first line of She Will be Loved by Maroon 5

>> No.15394204

>>15394135
Constantness itself is constant :)

>> No.15394225

>>15394135
Let me take a stab at it. Subjectivity. After all, no one can tell I farted except me. This at least lets me know there’s knowledge and experiences only I have access to. There’s at least an “I” if not a self.

>> No.15394243

>>15394135
My unchaning soul. You are the same person you were 30 years ago inside, even though your body may have changed

>> No.15394268

>>15394135
matter/energy, particularly the stuff in the brain

>> No.15394321

Yeah Hume is great until Kant blows tf out of all of his skepticism

Worth a read if you're serious :
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/kant-mind/

>> No.15394379

>>15394243
You are the same person you were a thousand years ago, even though your body may have changed

>> No.15394389

>>15394135
experience?

>> No.15394403

>>15394379
Not an entirely bankrupt idea.

>> No.15394404

>>15394135
Good bait. The stream of consciousness although part of an inner effort, is reactive and hence a slave to circumstance; its chaos escapes control and can't be the origin of one's idea of a permanent self. Impermanence is the natural state of man anyway, we are not meant to be unchanging, marble beings. But to know another is to have a structured idea of him, so we simplify our peers to understand them, and then try to apply the same rule to us, without success.

>> No.15394418

>>15394268
lmao

>> No.15394528

>>15394418
What, you got a better idea?

>> No.15394546

>>15394154
In a weirdly obsessive essoteric way. In the west they were just like "yah the self is an illusion of convenience and association, what of it?" and went past it. Its the be all and end all for eaterners for some reason.

>> No.15394548

>>15394528
matter/energy and the stuff in your brain don't correspond to your conception of self. when someone asks, who are you? you might associate that with many things, maybe you are a waiter, a young adult, you go to university, you have a dog, you like Vin Diesel movies, whatever. these are things which make up an identity. these are also totally contingent things which could change at any given moment

>> No.15394559

>>15394548
what if your concept of self is the matter and energy in your brain HM?

>> No.15394568

>>15394559
then you probably aren't a human being

>> No.15394575
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15394575

>>15394051
Do we live to die or do we die to live?

>> No.15394584
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15394584

>>15394568

>> No.15394670

>>15394548
You can boil all those things down to matter and energy.

What is a waiter but matter and energy?
What is a young adult but matter and energy?
What is going to university but matter and energy?
These are all different ways of saying, I'm matter and energy.

>> No.15394676
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15394676

>>15394051

>we have to go back

>> No.15394686

>>15394546

you see the differences because the easterners have meditation methodologies. theurgy was completely forgotten in the west, save for a few mystical religious schools. philosophy is a joke in comparison

>> No.15394695

>>15394670
but no one conceives themselves this way, even if we understand ourselves this way analytically. it just isn't how humans constitute their identity. if you ask someone how they are and they start referring to structures of matter and energy in their brain, you don't understand anything deeper about "themselves", you assume they forgot to take their meds.

>> No.15394700

>>15394268
>>15394528
>>15394568

once a single brain cell changes state, once a blood cell moves from one place to another, once you chop off a fingernail you are no longer the same person. therefore the only 'real' you can have no attributes whatsoever. heraclitus started and ended philosophy at the same time

>> No.15394783

>>15394695
>you don't understand anything deeper about "themselves"
But Hume says you don't understand anything at all about "themselves" when they say they're a waiter or a young adult or whatever because those things are fictions. It seems the only real way to actually talk about ourselves is via scientific definitions.

>> No.15394791

>>15394700
what do you mean when you say brain cells change states?

>> No.15394809

>>15394051
I'm here to remind you all UG Krishnamurti ended philosophy with statements similar to Hume, but went more in depth without any religious or mystical nonsense whatsoever. The problem with Hume is he doesn't know what to do with that insight the same goes for the east. Desires are mental, the self is an amalgam of passed down data in the form of thought, the body has no interest whatsoever in ideas, or gluttony. The body has two purposes, reproduction and survival. What happens is the body becomes hooked hormonally to pleasure, drugs, porn for example and created an addictive pattern, these patterns must be starved completely before anyone ever dreams of doing what UG did. His biological calamity is the cumulation of the mind/"I" thought bursting, breaking the link between subject and object (thought) as he said when this happens the body goes through an incomprehensible "calamity" and the functioning of the body is guided by the third eye or natural state and no longer dominated by thought.

>> No.15394814

>>15394809
To add this is not a "thoughtless" state but where one is no longer choked by thought, the body acts completely naturally, thought then becomes very very quiet background noise, only coming into to play when absolutely necessary to function in society

>> No.15394828

>>15394791

brain cells constantly shift based on hormones and electrical responses to the environment, and your own thinking. this process happens without your consent. if you know more about the science than i, feel free to correct me

>>15394809

i like you dude, but you aren't going to get away from vedanta no matter how hard you try

>> No.15394864

>>15394783
no, he says "themselves", or plainly, the self, is just a bundle of all those properties. there is no meta-self which hold these impressions together or organizes them, they simply exist as something like a collage. it's usually referred to as bundle theory.

>> No.15394928

>>15394783
Describing yourself as "brain and energy" is nonsensical. You're describing a collective human property, you're not saying anything on a personal level.

>> No.15395007

>>15394546
Well to be fair the West takes the idea in a negative and nihilistic point of view, not that there's anything wrong with that but our scope is a lot narrower

>> No.15395249

>>15394055
He’s Scottish

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