/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.15687646]

>Oswald Spengler argued that the materialist vision of Karl Marx was based on nineteenth-century science, while the twentieth century would be the age of psychology

was he right?

[Anonymous No.15687652]

>>15687646
No he didnt

[Anonymous No.15687660]

>>15687646
Well I guess that was Jung and the postmodernists like Deleuze but no if he did say this he was fundamentally wrong since the "materialism" if the 19th century has only further developed into full-blown anarchistic nihilism in the 20th and as of yet 21st century's.

[Anonymous No.15687767]

>>15687646
In a way yes, as Freudian psychoanalysis became far more prominent amongst the intelligentsia, including the commies, who really just abandoned materialist economics.

[Anonymous No.15687772]

In the early 20th for sure.

[Anonymous No.15687787]

>>15687646
He was 100% right, the entire sexual revolution was based on capitalists adapting psychoanalysis theories such as those of Wilhelm Reich. Mass advertisement and propaganda campaigns were stolen right from the books of psychologists like Le Bon.

[Anonymous No.15688092]

>>15687646
hank schrader?

[Anonymous No.15689555]

>>15687646
Yes we live in a Culture of Narcissism and Christopher Lasch has been proven right on many issues.

[Anonymous No.15690506]

a

[Anonymous No.15690522]

>>15687646
what do you think?

[Anonymous No.15690527]

>>15687646
Kind of obvious in retrospect isn't it? What will be the 21st century analogue?

[Anonymous No.15690561]

Not related to the topic at hand, but isn't it weird how therapy has only appeared in cultures where Europeans with a history of religious confession moved away from religion?

[Anonymous No.15692274]

Damn, he predicted psychology 30 years after Freud and mass transit only 300 years after it developed? What a genius!

[Anonymous No.15692760]

>>15687660
oh, stfu.
>>15687787
I agree. Not least in geopolitical and military
spheres is the psychological move indeed the end-all of strategy. Trumps relation to kayfabe, unrestricted warfare, russian bot farms, and in my country they just now instigated a ministry of psychological defense (outside of the defence minstriy).

[Anonymous No.15692842]

>>15687646
If twentieth century started at Yalta, then maybe.

[Anonymous No.15692926]

The scientific parts of psychology

[Anonymous No.15692951]

>>15690527
No.
The 21st century will be regarded as an age of papañca.

[Anonymous No.15694402]

Bump

[Anonymous No.15694871]

>>15687646
Take a look at the rhetoric around you
>You're just projecting
>All your problems are the result of your own inner psychological state
>People like good-looking people because of their confidence, not because they're good-looking
>If people dislike you it's because you dislike yourself, not because of a conflict that really exists between you and them
>Trump/feminists/[people I don't like] are just bitter and angry incels/virgins/cat ladies
>Adorno: Germans who disagree with my opinion on the Holocaust got very angry when I asked them questions that imply that I am right, therefore they are all coping and hiding. We can conclude from this that every German was aware of the Holocaust.
Our culture is awash with crude psychobabble, and I can't tell whether it's getting worse, or I'm just becoming increasingly hostile to it.

[Anonymous No.15695059]

>>15687646
But psychology itself is the materialistic reinterpretation of the way religion interacted with the soul.

[Anonymous No.15695073]

>>15694871
>Adorno

It never stops being funny for me that one of the bastions of 20th century marxism actually, unironically believed that not trusting your government is crypto-fascism.

[Anonymous No.15695087]

>>15692760
you need medication or a translator

[Anonymous No.15695105]

>>15690527
Age of TikTok™

[Anonymous No.15695106]

>>15690527
Mysticism as our Zivilization transitions into the Second Religiousness

[Anonymous No.15695114]

>>15695073
whats far funnier is one of the last bastions of 20th century marxism saw essentially every trait of modernity as degenerate and offered fascist solutions to liberal problems

[Anonymous No.15695122]

>>15694871
Very good. The spirit of the times is always contained in popular language.

[Anonymous No.15695131]

>>15687646
Unlike Marx, Spengler's theories are at best on a par with Astrology.

[Anonymous No.15695138]

>>15695073
What makes you say that?

[Anonymous No.15695163]

>>15695138
Being distrustful of your government is one of the qualities that puts you closer to the dangerous end of the F-scale according to Adorno et al.

[Anonymous No.15695188]

>>15695163
No, not actually.

[Anonymous No.15695191]

>>15695163
dumb shit like the "F scale" is the reason why the term fascist means literally nothing, fuck these dumb leftist faggots

[Anonymous No.15695192]

>>15695131
which is a natural science. by the way, i am a scientist. what are you?

[Anonymous No.15695199]

>>15695192
>which is a natural science. by the way, i am a scientist. what are you?

[Anonymous No.15695208]

>>15695191
>dumb shit like the "F scale" is the reason why the term fascist means literally nothing,
So far so good.

>fuck these dumb leftist faggots
Ooohhhh! So close.

[Anonymous No.15695257]

>>15695199
You forgot to include the image, dingbat

[Anonymous No.15695277]

>>15687646
Either that, or linguistics. The linguistic turn is a 20th century phenomenon, which ends with an economic interpretation of semiology from Baudrillard. Materialism was still heavy in the 20th century, when you have similar materialist economic theories based on desire, like those of bataille, deleuze, and lyotard, to those of the 19th century.

[Anonymous No.15695292]

>>15695257
>astrology is a natural science
>>>/x/

[Anonymous No.15695342]

Who dressed this buffoon up in a suit? I doubt he had the capacity to do it himself.
This is such a funny image, like seeing a chimpanzee in a fancy suit.

[Anonymous No.15695498]

>>15687646
Yes, of course. Extreme skepticism and the phenomenon that was Kant combined with the evolutionary-economic theories of desire/will produced psychologists, first in the form of Kierkegaard, Stirner, Dostoyevsky, and Nietzsche. Then, after religion was truly dead, all the rest became psychologists, since the former just experienced the effects ahead of time, being more intelligent. So you have Freud, Jung, Adler, and the psychoanalysists, you have the explosion of "existentialism" (this really just means psychology), in Beuvoir, Sartre, Heidegger, Camus, and Husserl. Even the "analytic" philosophers were stuck trying to find the limits of thought. It is no surprise that Wittgenstein's favourite philosopher was Kierkegaard. Even the linguistic turn is in the end mere psychology, trying to understand the structures of how one understands and interprets language. Though the last 20 or so years of the 20th century are completely different, with the quick advancement of art taking it's full effect on philosophy and producing a numerous amount of science fiction philosophers, like Baudrillard's late theory-fictions, as well as those of the CCRU and the massive amount of offshoots they created, with object oriented ontology turning into sheer mysticism.

[Anonymous No.15695730]

>>15687646
yes

[Anonymous No.15696807]

Bump

[Anonymous No.15696822]

>>15687767
>*Burial/NIN/Brian Eno starts playing*
>but this was a fantasy

[Anonymous No.15696837]

>>15696822
i dont get it

[Anonymous No.15696902]

>>15690527
Obiously the age of religion. It's happening right now.

[Anonymous No.15698224]

>>15696902
this, religious revival + caesarism

[Anonymous No.15698246]

>>15687646
>was he right?
Yes, even the Marxists embraced it.

[Anonymous No.15698293]

>>15690527
Mystical science fiction. Shit started in the 80's, and it's only grow and intensified. Makes complete sense when you add movies and videogames into the mix. Even the turn from punk to goth as the must popular rock form Mark's a decisive turn away from liberal psychology and towards mystical science fiction. Then you get the cold, detached and alien electronic music forms from Europe like trip hop and early dubstep that fracture into 1000 other genres like brostep from skrillex, or witch house if we trace Hyperdub's influencing through artists like Burial (praised by mark fisher) and Kode9 (part of Nick Land's cybernetic culture research unit). Through that we can trace artists like clams casino, who influences the alien transsexual tones of Arca, who both create the careers of A$AP Rocky and, later, build the album Yeezus, not to mention the collaborations from underground electronic labels such as tri-angle records. This goes on to influence Travis Scott, resulting in a million people cloning this airy, alien trap style. From Young Thug to Rae Sremmurd, this style dominated, and still dominates, all of modern trap and hiphop.

One can trace the influence of Skrillex through the more joyful musical forms like pop, which is pretty much now entirely dubstep electronic glitch hop outside of a few constantly cycling artists who get popular because they mastered the transcultural sound (think despacito, combining the rapping from hip-hop, the Spanish language, the Canadian Justin Bieber, etc).

So I can completely trace the mystical SF phenomenon through music, nevermind movies, where it is so obvious everyone already knows it. Think Alien and Promethius. Think Star Wars and Battlestar Galactica. Think the giant string of both marvel and DC superhero movies, putting the technology of iron man or bat man alongside the mystical figures of wonder woman or thor. Think blade runner, terminator, movies like interstellar and looper, or minority report, or the matrix trilogy. Again, I can go on all day.

Theoretically, has anyone even done anything that wasn't mystical SF? Think the extreme speculations and reaches of the physicists. Think Baudrillard's later theories of the supremacy of the object over the subject. Think Nick Land's cybernetics, and his later blockchain silliness. Think Mark Fishers obsessive writing on horror. Think Langan's copying of the Nietzschean-Shopenhauerian system with quantum physics. There are not many philosophers I can reference since most intelligent people have gone over to engineering or physics.

[Anonymous No.15698312]

>>15696902
>>15698224
No one is going to go back to the main Religions, like Christianity or Buddhism. The new mystical, religious drive has already been absorbed by science, as you can see here: >>15698293

[Anonymous No.15698339]

>>15695208
>Ooohhhh! So close.
Is that because fascism is against the status quo, and thus "left wing"?

[Anonymous No.15698460]

>>15698293
That'll be one theme. The other will be a turn from individualism and cosmopolitan views towards group/identity focused thought an culture.

The major Western European nations are all still mostly European right now, despite what right wingers would have you think. But even midline predictions have Europeans as minorites in the UK, France, and Germany by the end of the century.

I think it's foolish to think such a monumental demographic shift, actually quicker than that of North America from 1600 to 1800, won't come to dominate Western Culture. Plus world wide, the balance of economic might will keep shifting towards Asia. However the biggest change will be the gigantic African population surge. Africa just reach 1 billion people in 2015 but will be more populous than Asia by 2100 according to the UN. Some countries have median ages of under 15. Half of all children will be African around 2100. This will affect Asia and the West through a mass diaspora, since the region is fragile and will be hit worst by climate change.

I think a demographic shift of that magnitude (European nations may have plurality SSA populations by 2120) has to dominate culture, it's too big to be sublimated.

[Anonymous No.15699204]

>>15698460
>I think it's foolish to think such a monumental demographic shift, actually quicker than that of North America from 1600 to 1800, won't come to dominate Western Culture. Plus world wide, the balance of economic might will keep shifting towards Asia. However the biggest change will be the gigantic African population surge. Africa just reach 1 billion people in 2015 but will be more populous than Asia by 2100 according to the UN. Some countries have median ages of under 15. Half of all children will be African around 2100. This will affect Asia and the West through a mass diaspora, since the region is fragile and will be hit worst by climate change.
>I think a demographic shift of that magnitude (European nations may have plurality SSA populations by 2120) has to dominate culture, it's too big to be sublimated.
It will certainly be interesting. But I feel like Baudrillard, back in the 80's already figured out what would happen as a result of this. All popular culture becomes "transcultural" and "transsexual", meaning all cultures and sexes are blended into one form where all individual forms of culture become softened and deradicalized because of this multi-culturalism. The transcultural spreads by mere contiguity, absorbing anything it touches into a melting pot. We already see that in "despacito", and the 1000 electro-poprap dancehall songs that dominate the radio. It's just a few more cultures that will need to be mixed in. It's inevitable.

As for Europe being taken over by Muslims: Europe is already dead. America has world-supremacy now. The real question is that of America vs Asia. Many mythic SF artworks depict an Asian future, and less and less depict an American future, which is very interesting. Are people getting ready for such a switch? Or has it already happened, with the extreme productive ability of asian ant-people taking over all commercial forms due to exporting labour? Or, are the Americans merely throwing their dirty tasks to someone else? While Americans are certainly more confident, Asians are more industrious and intelligent. They are the perfect herd people of the future. The "last men", to put it in overused Nietzschean terms. Yes, Asians have productive supremacy, but Americans have cultural supremacy. And the best producers of culture in the East are mostly just copying and perfecting American forms (Japan copying american electronic music, american animation, american arcade and 2D videogames, american metal, etc.)

So that is where the battle lies. Will the Americans bend to the productive power of the East? Or will the East bend to the cultural power of America?

[Anonymous No.15699391]

>>15687646
His hypothesis on psychology becomes even more interesting when looking at advertising and art from the early 20th century. While much of the early forced downfall of early European forms was forced by today's equivalent of the CIA, there still existed a few genuine movements. Surrealism is the most psychological art form. It is pure inner dialogue, pure dreamscape. It is quite amazing that both came into prominence at the same time. There is also the blatant Freudian advertising, that couldn't be more obvious in it's attempts that it is trying to manipulate you. It is all part of Freud's self-fulfilling prophecy: by saying everybody wanted to bang their moms and that everyone was attracted to phallic imagery, and by advertisers pushing this down peoples throats, many actually started to become attracted to their moms and phallic imagery!
>>15695498
>>15698293
From this perspective, you can look at the 70's as a transitional phase through Cyberpunk. Cyberpunk is the definitive transitional phase of the 70's between liberal psychology, focusing on transgressing all laws and liberating all repressed desire (hence, "-punk"), and mystical gothic quantum-physics influenced science fiction (hence, "cyber-"). Ballard seems to be the quintessential character here, since he is both Freudian and at the same time moving into the ecstatic transcultural cyborg-worship we see today. Even Baudrillard called him the "first author of the age of hyperreality", a phrase demonstrating how virtual reality puts an end to the distinction between real and fake, since you can no longer tell truth from lie.

[Anonymous No.15699447]

>>15689555
fuck off borzoi

[Anonymous No.15699799]

>>15692951
Fuck, the Buddhists were Hegelian?