/lit/ - Literature

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♥onionring♥ !Rrxa7zePwI Sat Mar 12 22:45:59 2011 No.1626413 [Reply] [Original]

some real philosophy for you lemmins
pick a line and comment on it

wittgenstein

>to convince someone of the truth, it is not enough to state it, but rather one must find the path from error to truth.

>Every explanation is after all an hypothesis.

>An entire mythology is stored within our language.

>Philosophizing is: rejecting false arguments.

>You get tragedy where the tree, instead of bending, breaks.

>If someone is merely ahead of his time, it will catch up to him one day.

>Reading the Socratic dialogues one has the feeling: what a frightful waste of time! What's the point of these arguments that prove nothing and clarify nothing?

>I read: "philosophers are no nearer to the meaning of 'Reality' than Plato got,...". What a strange situation. How extraordinary that Plato could have got even as far as he did! Or that we could not get any further! Was it because Plato was so extremely clever?

>Philosophers often behave like little children who scribble some marks on a piece of paper at random and then ask the grown-up "What's that?" — It happened like this: the grown-up had drawn pictures for the child several times and said "this is a man," "this is a house," etc. And then the child makes some marks too and asks: what's this then?

>Nothing is so difficult as not deceiving oneself.

>Resting on your laurels is as dangerous as resting when you are walking in the snow. You doze off and die in your sleep.

>I sit astride life like a bad rider on a horse. I only owe it to the horse's good nature that I am not thrown off at this very moment.

>>	Deep&Edgy !pSkjEcB9sQ Sat Mar 12 22:48:59 2011 No.1626423 is that pic from macross or something >Philosophizing is: rejecting false arguments. probably the weakest of the bunch

♥onionring♥ !Rrxa7zePwI Sat Mar 12 22:49:59 2011 No.1626427

>A man will be imprisoned in a room with a door that's unlocked and opens inwards; as long as it does not occur to him to pull rather than push it.

>If people did not sometimes do silly things, nothing intelligent would ever get done.

>The way you use the word "God" does not show whom you mean — but, rather, what you mean.

>A hero looks death in the face, real death, not just the image of death.

>Don't for heaven's sake, be afraid of talking nonsense! But you must pay attention to your nonsense.

>It's only by thinking even more crazily than philosophers do that you can solve their problems.

>Never stay up on the barren heights of cleverness, but come down into the green valleys of silliness.

>Ambition is the death of thought.

>It seems to me that, in every culture, I come across a chapter headed Wisdom. And then I know exactly what is going to follow: Vanity of vanities, all is vanity.

>You must always be puzzled by mental illness.

if you understood everything then congratulations.

>>	♥onionring♥ !Rrxa7zePwI Sat Mar 12 22:50:59 2011 No.1626431 >>1626423 some of them contradict each other, your job is to understand why and how.

>>	♥onionring♥ !Rrxa7zePwI Sat Mar 12 22:51:59 2011 No.1626437 >>1626423 picture is from gankutsuoh

Anonymous Sat Mar 12 22:53:59 2011 No.1626443

>Every explanation is after all an hypothesis.

>An entire mythology is stored within our language.

Been gone a while, so you are the new stagolee

The only really philosophical quotes in there are the ones from above and only really make sense if you know what language games. They aren't I say herp you say derp. The others are more general life stuff

In any case here is the tractatus his first book online http://www.kfs.org/~jonathan/witt/tlph.html and the first 100 remarks of philosophical investigations here http://users.rcn.com/rathbone/lwtocc.htm

For more you have to get it in print. Or maybe there is a pdf, who knows.

>>	Deep&Edgy !pSkjEcB9sQ Sat Mar 12 22:54:59 2011 No.1626444 wouldn't mind a link to Culture and Value if anyone has one

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 22:57:59 2011 No.1626457 >>1626444 closest thing I can find you is a lecture on ethics http://www.galilean-library.org/manuscript.php?postid=43866 you could probably find all his stuff on piratebay really easy though

>>	♥onionring♥ !Rrxa7zePwI Sat Mar 12 23:05:59 2011 No.1626493 >>1626443 yo you will understand it later.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 23:10:59 2011 No.1626516 File: 53 KB, 267x400, hansi_hartley01web.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Wittgenstein's books lack any grace or vitality..if this is indeed 'real philosophy', then I rejoice at the thought of philosophy rotting on history's trash heap.

>>	♥onionring♥ !Rrxa7zePwI Sat Mar 12 23:13:59 2011 No.1626529 >>1626516 you suffer from >Don't for heaven's sake, be afraid of talking nonsense! But you must pay attention to your nonsense.

♥onionring♥ !Rrxa7zePwI Sat Mar 12 23:15:59 2011 No.1626534
File: 66 KB, 848x477, Gankutsuou-Haydée-Tebelin.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>1626529
and a host of other ones.
>>1626444
if you want i can guide you through reading some of these via im since i think you have some potential.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 23:17:59 2011 No.1626542 >>1626534 trust me, I don't need your help to read wittgenstein.

>>	♥onionring♥ !Rrxa7zePwI Sat Mar 12 23:18:59 2011 No.1626544 >>1626542 you will soon lol

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 23:22:59 2011 No.1626550 >>1626529 So boring, his axioms attract the bloodless..

>>	♥onionring♥ !Rrxa7zePwI Sat Mar 12 23:24:59 2011 No.1626552 >>1626550 how do you understand it. he's talking about language, logic, epistemology and philosophical method from that one single sentence.

>>	♥onionring♥ !Rrxa7zePwI Sat Mar 12 23:25:59 2011 No.1626555 >>1626550 and they are not axioms more like pained grasps at expression

>>	Deep&Edgy !pSkjEcB9sQ Sat Mar 12 23:27:59 2011 No.1626562 File: 84 KB, 350x492, gfm.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>1626534 thanks Onionring will let you know if I've problems.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 23:27:59 2011 No.1626563 >>1626552 Lautreamont did the same, but vitally beautifully..wittgenstein was a decent thinker, but a terrible writer...

>>	♥onionring♥ !Rrxa7zePwI Sat Mar 12 23:29:59 2011 No.1626567 >>1626563 okay i will check that guy out.

>>	Deep&Edgy !pSkjEcB9sQ Sat Mar 12 23:30:59 2011 No.1626570 so OR do you prefer Early or Late Witty

>>	♥onionring♥ !Rrxa7zePwI Sat Mar 12 23:31:59 2011 No.1626576 >>1626570 Actually. early. late gave up too much.

>>	♥onionring♥ !Rrxa7zePwI Sat Mar 12 23:31:59 2011 No.1626577 also. study of language <<<<<<<< logic ontology and metaphilosophy

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 23:32:59 2011 No.1626579 >>1626567 i dont know if you'll like it (no ''sense'') but it would refresh you..his only book was 'les chants de maldoror'

>>	♥onionring♥ !Rrxa7zePwI Sat Mar 12 23:34:59 2011 No.1626583 >>1626579 i like all honest efforts.

>>	♥onionring♥ !Rrxa7zePwI Sat Mar 12 23:35:59 2011 No.1626586 well it looks like french and i cannot into that.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 12 23:35:59 2011 No.1626589 >>1626577 ah. ahahaha. ahahahahaha

>>	♥onionring♥ !Rrxa7zePwI Sat Mar 12 23:36:59 2011 No.1626590 >>1626589 >undergrad detected

>>	♥onionring♥ !Rrxa7zePwI Sun Mar 13 07:30:59 2011 No.1627126 bump

>>	Truman Capote !!cO9KVBDtkqQ Sun Mar 13 07:33:59 2011 No.1627128 File: 10 KB, 193x262, onionring.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	♥onionring♥ !Rrxa7zePwI Sun Mar 13 07:33:59 2011 No.1627129 btw wittgenstein was a strict naturalist par excellence.

>>	♥onionring♥ !Rrxa7zePwI Sun Mar 13 07:34:59 2011 No.1627130 >>1627128 yea you are one, so please don't make a big scene.

>>	KOZ !!n414dW6hO/U Sun Mar 13 07:35:59 2011 No.1627131 File: 62 KB, 302x336, MMBB.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] EVERYTHING IS RELATIVE; OBJECTIVITY IS RELATIVE; RELATIVITY IS OBJECTIVE.

>>	Truman Capote !!cO9KVBDtkqQ Sun Mar 13 07:44:59 2011 No.1627134 File: 28 KB, 250x358, samwise_gamgee.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >calls me an attention whore >about 2/3rds of this thread is herself talking

>>	♥onionring♥ !Rrxa7zePwI Sun Mar 13 07:49:59 2011 No.1627137 File: 19 KB, 360x251, Mary_Poppins_in_the_Clouds.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] say that to your teacher at high school ans see what happens

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 13 08:01:59 2011 No.1627142 >>1627129 wasn't the tractatus talking about the phenomena? My teacher said it could be understood for it's ambiguity as a solipsist theory.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 13 08:04:59 2011 No.1627144 >>1627131 The faggotry on this comment is absolute, not relative.

>>	♥onionring♥ !Rrxa7zePwI Sun Mar 13 08:06:59 2011 No.1627145 >>1627142 that is like not reading it at all. anyway thanks for comment i will notee it

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 13 08:07:59 2011 No.1627146 >>1626577 but shouldn't we study first the language because we can only get access to those other fields through it? Doesn't it make language study a much more essential subject?

>>	♥onionring♥ !Rrxa7zePwI Sun Mar 13 08:09:59 2011 No.1627147 >>1627146 how do you study language and make sure that you are actually studying it rather than reconstructing something else

>>	♥onionring♥ !Rrxa7zePwI Sun Mar 13 08:10:59 2011 No.1627148 >>1627146 it's all integrated though look at the >>> as epistemic precession rather than conflict

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 13 08:35:59 2011 No.1627161 >>1627147 >I can only speak English

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 13 08:51:59 2011 No.1627179 File: 30 KB, 520x350, 1299939735639.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >wittgenstein >philosophy Cool story, bro.

>>	♥onionring♥ !Rrxa7zePwI Sun Mar 13 08:58:59 2011 No.1627188 File: 44 KB, 364x406, no.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>1627161

>>	Truman Capote !!cO9KVBDtkqQ Sun Mar 13 09:00:59 2011 No.1627192 >>1627188 see: >>1627128

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 13 09:05:59 2011 No.1627194 cool here are some more http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Ludwig_Wittgenstein

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 13 23:17:59 2011 No.1629137 >>1626413 I disagree, good sir!

Anonymous Sun Mar 13 23:23:59 2011 No.1629154

Understanding Wittgenstein requires reading the weird sounding quotes in context- a significant context, not just a sentence, but a few pages before and after. Putting up a bunch of quotes like this basically does nothing but lets people have typical, pointless, knee-jerk reactions.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 13 23:27:59 2011 No.1629162 >>1627147 Neurolinguistics. Also, history of western thought is tied to language.

>>	Lastaid Sun Mar 13 23:28:59 2011 No.1629163 Earlier you said >It's only by thinking even more crazily than philosophers do that you can solve their problems. Almost in vertabim. You whily minx, you.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 13 23:32:59 2011 No.1629164 >You get tragedy where the tree, instead of bending, breaks. No. Tradgedy is when the tree bends away from the sunlight

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 13 23:42:59 2011 No.1629187 does any one have pics of onionring

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 13 23:43:59 2011 No.1629192 >>1629187 In negligée?

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 13 23:46:59 2011 No.1629198 >>1629164 No. Tragedy is when the sun goes out.

>>	♥onionring♥ !Rrxa7zePwI Mon Mar 14 00:08:59 2011 No.1629272 >>1629162 >neurolinguistics that i agree with. but i am talking about the philosopher's ambition of studying language through the user's phenomenal experience.

Anonymous Mon Mar 14 00:20:59 2011 No.1629307

>>1629272
I suppose it's difficult to talk about the phenomenal experience of a language by virtue of needing to use language to talk about it.

There are a few important points in this area to recognize though, and that help you glimpse at the terrain, so to speak. One prime example is talking about a "logical basis" of language, and why it is important to be incredibly wary of such claims; the rules of logic, ultimately, are derived from how we talk about things, our verbal reasoning. To claim that what is essentially a subset of language somehow applies to the entirety of language is dubious.

♥onionring♥ !Rrxa7zePwI Mon Mar 14 00:23:59 2011 No.1629312

>>1629307
the poitn about hasty generalization is true and painstakingly learned, however, the logical basis idea is still important and cannot be dismissed. you have to make space for the differentiation between close and not so close readings, ie right and wrong judgments.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 14 00:37:59 2011 No.1629340 Do I have to take a class on philosophy to "get" something about these quotes? I can see how some of them are true in certain situations but I don't get how any of them are deep or whatever.

Anonymous Mon Mar 14 00:37:59 2011 No.1629342
File: 79 KB, 334x500, 3345021234_a4f347865b.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>to convince someone of the truth, it is not enough to state it, but rather one must find the path from error to truth.
And even then some wont listen.
>Every explanation is after all an hypothesis.
"A hypothesis."
>If someone is merely ahead of his time, it will catch up to him one day.
Unless he dies first and it catches up afterwords.
>Nothing is so difficult as not deceiving oneself.
Its all in the paying attention or not. For instance, one can't be in full love continuously, you have to stop and live.
>I sit astride life like a bad rider on a horse. I only owe it to the horse's good nature that I am not thrown off at this very moment.
Your welcome.

Anonymous Mon Mar 14 00:58:59 2011 No.1629384

>>1629312
>the logical basis idea is still important and cannot be dismissed
I would say it's relevant, and I'd also agree that, as far as tools go for criticizing knowledge, logic is the best one we have. While I cannot see how you could reduce language to a set of categorical forms of logic (even if it is possible, it's damn unpalatable), to attempt to look at language without using logic is also damn unpalatable. I think this is why neurolinguistics is such a big thing, it gives a sense that we know what we're doing and breaks the problem into chunks. Perhaps, though, that's just a way of putting the original problem, of language (and by extension what logic is) off.

So, I dunno.

>you have to make space for the differentiation between close and not so close readings, ie right and wrong judgments.
Not sure I get what you're saying here, but surely the benefit of a phenomenal perspective is to not get lost in a close reading? i.e. to not fall into the old trap of reductionism?

♥onionring♥ !Rrxa7zePwI Mon Mar 14 01:32:59 2011 No.1629482

>>1629384
>Not sure I get what you're saying here, but surely the benefit of a phenomenal perspective is to not get lost in a close reading? i.e. to not fall into the old trap of reductionism?
yea, but when we are actually doing logic, it's in the logical space of reason.

Anonymous Mon Mar 14 03:00:59 2011 No.1629633

>>1629482
I suppose. I'm not so enamoured by reason either, and that works like Dostoevsky's the Idiot and Foucault's Madness and Civilization make some good (or at least interesting) points about what we call "reason".

I believe Sellars is meant to have looked at this, though I've always been put off by his seemingly behaviourist approach to language. Also, Schenker came up with an interesting approach to the analysis of music that would likely find some of its principles/ideas applicable here. His work is really something else entirely.

Not sure if you're trying to distinguish logic from it's linguistic roots either. I'd still say that what is considered logic is logocentric, with other systems/modalities of reasoning being mistrusted since antiquity. That's not to say they're not important, just that what we know as logic is still very much tied up in language.

>>	♥onionring♥ !Rrxa7zePwI Mon Mar 14 03:04:59 2011 No.1629641 >>1629633 mebbe it's the incidental fact that "logic" is carried out with pen and paper, usually. so disproportionate analysis, maybe all analysis, has to be done on paper with symbols

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 14 03:39:59 2011 No.1629676 >>1629641 If I can remember/find who and what I've been reading that looks at other forms of analyses I'll post some titles. At the moment I can only think of that Bruce Lee book on Philosophy of the body, i think? Which is interesting, but..

>>	KOZ !!n414dW6hO/U Mon Mar 14 03:44:59 2011 No.1629679 File: 8 KB, 74x75, H.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>1627144 APPARENTLY THE DEPTH OF MY COMMENT IS TOO UNFATHOMABLE FOR YOUR SHORTWAVELENGHTED MIND.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 14 17:29:59 2011 No.1630887 >>1629641 >>1629676 Still looking for one specific article and a usb stick, but thought you might appreciate this: http://www.springerlink.com/content/p048083223678221/

>>	♥onionring♥ !Rrxa7zePwI Mon Mar 14 17:31:59 2011 No.1630890 File: 41 KB, 768x576, judy-garland.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>1630887 oh damn i might steal that title

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 14 17:31:59 2011 No.1630891 >to convince someone of the truth, it is not enough to state it, but rather one must find the path from error to truth. I told my flatmate this one. After a moment he said, "yeah, I agree." Thus, it is untrue.

>>	♥onionring♥ !Rrxa7zePwI Mon Mar 14 17:32:59 2011 No.1630893 >>1630891 why. the path is simply the right way of using a word, or a referential concept.

Anonymous Mon Mar 14 17:36:59 2011 No.1630898

>>1630893
>the right way of using a word
>the right way of using a word
>the right way of using a word
>the right way of using a word
>the right way of using a word
>the right way of using a word
>the right way of using a word
>the
>the
>the
>the
>the
>the
>the
>the
>the

>>	Deep&Edgy !pSkjEcB9sQ Mon Mar 14 17:36:59 2011 No.1630899 whenever I hear the word 'referential' in philosophy I cringe

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