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16549739 No.16549739 [Reply] [Original]

A couple of times I've seen people ask on here for advice on creating gods and pantheons for fantasy settings and get “don’t create gods, make religions!” as an answer. Fine then, how do you create religions for fantasy settings, particularly in ones where the god or gods actually exist in-setting, especially if you want to do more than copy-paste from a religion from our world?
>If you're basing a god or goddess off a historical one, how close should they be to the original and why? What are some of the patterns and archetypes in historical pantheons, and what are some interesting ways to subvert and/or put your own spin on them, like maybe a female head god, for example?
>What are some general tips regarding religious practices for these gods and goddesses, like what kinds of offerings they should be offered and what should be avoided when making the religion? What are some good sources on that kind of thing?
>How many gods should a polytheistic religion have, and how should you make sure that there aren't any major gaps in the domains?
>What are the pros and cons of creating a polytheistic religion vs a monotheistic one?
>What about the priests and/or priestesses of the deity or deities? Should entry into the priesthood be gender-limited? Should they be celibate? What are some good things to remember when considering their uniforms and duties?

>> No.16550002

>>16549739
make a religion where it benefits the society and for once they are not the big bad

>> No.16550032

>>16550002
this, if I have to see one more not-medieval european catholicsm with le evil pedo popes...

>> No.16550120

>>16549739
Are you open to reading a bunch of books?

>> No.16550135

>>16549739
think for youself you goddamn lazy mf, that's your job

>> No.16550136

I recently created a religion, it’s called OPism and it tells the story of the order of reality being maintained by the OP and him sucking a giant dick

>> No.16551014

>>16550120
>Are you open to reading a bunch of books?
Always, any in particular?

>> No.16551032

>>16551014
I'd assume you must read various origin texts for religions like the bible and the Vedic texts. Taoist texts, many religious documents in general,

>> No.16551082

>>16549739
I started by writing a creation myth. A religion or two sprouted from that, simply by avoiding using Christian terms, like heaven and hell.

There's one that's just the natural progression of making wild-west sheriffs into a secular monk thing.

I've got some "native" religions I'm still in the process of building.

Far as I see it, like everything else, religion has a purpose. What's the purpose? To give life meaning? To control the masses? To unify multiple people into a larger whole? To establish and perpetuate a social order? How is that purpose best served? Once you have that all planned out, just abstract it.

>> No.16551145

>>16551082
>I started by writing a creation myth. A religion or two sprouted from that, simply by avoiding using Christian terms, like heaven and hell.
Any advice for creation myths, especially if it and/or the god’s actually exist in-setting, please?

>> No.16551236

>>16551145
there are a lot of creation myths out there- I'd suggest reading a lot of different ones, most of them can be summarized in a page or two, and it gives you a feel for what usually goes into one.
mine is that earth is the result of four god-children having a competition over who can make the coolest thing for their god mom.

It depends on if the gods are prominent figures in every-day life, or if they just show up every 400 years to smite an evil king or drop a prophecy. If nobody knows much about them, then you don't really have to do anything different, since people love making up stories.
If they are prominent, then... I don't know. They say god created the world in seven days. If god suddenly showed up, would the seven day myth change in any way?

>> No.16552650

>>16550032
>this, if I have to see one more not-medieval european catholicsm with le evil pedo popes...
What are some examples of that, so I know what to avoid, then?

>> No.16553129

>>16551032
>I'd assume you must read various origin texts for religions like the bible and the Vedic texts. Taoist texts, many religious documents in general,
Are there any good CliffNotes versions available?

>> No.16554091

I've been working on this story about a civil war breaking out inside a fictional Empire, and religion and faith is a big part to the story. The religion revolves around the Empire's Saints, who are considered the founding fathers of the Empire. Each one of the saints has a tale (based on Arthurian myth to some extent) that priests believe is a message on how an ideal imperial citizen should act. One of the main characters of the whole affair is someone who goes by the Hierophant, who is kind of a stand in for the pope. His character serves as a very crucial part of the first act. As the highest religious authority in the Empire, he commands a great deal of respect, yet he has witnessed the empire's fall from grace in his long life, and seeks to fix the system for the better, but when a succession dispute for the position of Emperor begins to break out, threatening to depose the Hierophant, he names himself the Emperor despite having no claim. He then furiously tries to stop the several schemes of other lesser characters to try and win the throne and save the realm. A lot of characters in the story hate him, they think that he's a bureaucrat and a tyrant, but through the perspective of his personal bodyguard, you get to know him as a deeply dutiful man, who is forced to compromise on everything he holds dear for the sake of his Empire. His character was somewhat inspired by Kierkegaard's knight of infinite resignation/knight of faith.

I think religion is one of those things that must be kept to the background, but having all of the characters be religious is probably the most breathing room that you can give it. People ultimately like stories because of the human elements, so anything that isn't immediately about or characters tends to detract from empathy as oppose to enrich. That said, I think - seeing as this is a question more on worldbuilding - that history, mythology and religion should go hand in hand. Consider the history of the setting, and what kind of religious and mythological conclusion can be drawn from it

>> No.16554228

>>16552650
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CorruptChurch

>> No.16554784

>>16550002
>>16550032
>>16552650
>>16554228
Read more.

>> No.16555748

>>16554228
Alright, what about historical examples then, please?

>> No.16557162

>>16554784
>Read more.
Specific examples, do you have any?

>> No.16557351

>>16557162
Look i personally just don't like Religion in novels, most of the time they are just this forced parallel to the real word, like the church is corrupt or this savage religion is actually more "civilized than our western religion" type of thing, or you have those "he is related to the gods by blood" type of thing, i personally just like religion as a side thing in novels, something that doesn't really interfere in the main story. You can create one to elucidate to culture of a certain people but please don't make them do absurd things because their religion says so, it's cliche as hell and devoids characters of realistic agency.

>> No.16558091

>>16549739
Read Girard and you will have your answer

>> No.16558386

>>16557351
>Look i personally just don't like Religion in novels, most of the time they are just this forced parallel to the real word, like the church is corrupt or this savage religion is actually more "civilized than our western religion" type of thing, or you have those "he is related to the gods by blood" type of thing, i personally just like religion as a side thing in novels, something that doesn't really interfere in the main story. You can create one to elucidate to culture of a certain people but please don't make them do absurd things because their religion says so, it's cliche as hell and devoids characters of realistic agency.
Alright, are there any settings that you know of that actually handle it well, then?

>> No.16558481

>>16558386
The Lord of The Rings

>> No.16559792

>>16558481
>The Lord of The Rings
What do you feel that it does well, exactly?

>> No.16559883

>>16549739
You can't make a new sandwich before you know what a sandwich is, and you can't make a convincing and good new sandwich by only copying other people's sandwiches. To create a religion for a story you first have to understand the many ways in which religion functions. How many gods and their power and nature is entirely secondary. If you can't find a convincing essence for religion which reflects not the direct role but the essence of the role which religion serves in the lives of religious people, you cannot create a realistic religion.

>> No.16559923

>>16550136
Ahh, and as always OP is gay and also a massive faggot.

>> No.16560529

>>16550002
I’m basing my religion on Christianity because my story is a fantasy variant of Europe during the late medieval/early renaissance period with the Holy Roman Empire. I don’t care if this makes you angry. It’s how the church was back then, the only thing really keeping society together, but also massively corrupt. Especially when you factor the inquisition which is one of the major elements of my story.

But feel free to cry more about people taking influence from real life circumstances and events.

>> No.16560552

>>16555748
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inquisition
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Alexander_VI
https://www.google.co.jp/amp/s/www.livescience.com/amp/8606-7-unholy-pope-scandals.html

>> No.16560854

>>16560529
almost certain you misunderstand the inquisition

>> No.16560947

>>16549739
Tell God's story, then tell the farmer's story, then listen to what the dog has to say.

That goes for about every part of your worldbuilding.

>> No.16560991

>>16560854
Almost certain I don’t. Why are you so butthurt?

>> No.16560998

>>16549739
>>>/tg/
go back retard

>> No.16561022

>>16560998
I can't really respect /tg/'s worldbuilding approach always being for the sake of Universal appeal, but that more has to do with the subject of the board itself.

>> No.16561041

>>16561022
The deal is, worldbuilding is but one aspect of storytelling, and it’s actually one of the least important, and the last obe you build. The question you’re asking is utterly pointless as you should know the answer already, or, more accurately put, you would know the answer of you had a story well planned out and mostly written. Because when it comes to worldbuilding, it’s all in service of the story. Your religion should be, whatever your story needs it to be. If you even need a religion at all. Because why build something totally irrelevant to the story you’re trying to tell?

People who focus on worldbuilding too much, or start off by worldbuilding are the sorts of nerds who love to wank over lightsabers and elves, but don’t know the first thing about proper storytelling.

>> No.16561054
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16561054

>>16561041
Not OP, I'm only talking about my experience I have with those threads. Pic related is what I consider a TRUE worldbuilder.

>> No.16562393

>>16561054
>Pic related is what I consider a TRUE worldbuilder.
Why him? What does he do particularly well?

>> No.16562638
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16562638

>>16549739
I know you're trying to take a different route to skirt out of the problem of copying existing pantheons too much, but I still think doing research and knowing them well can only help in the creative process. I also think that you shouldn't be too concerned if some of your deities still carry recognizable traits. Adhering to certain popular archetypes is not something necessarily bad, it's exactly because of some of those subconsciously recognizable traits that some characters can be so easily accepted and understood.

One example that comes to my mind of a good adaptation, is the Magic the Gathering setting based on Greek Myth, Theros. It's certainly its own unique thing, obviously very drawn from Greek cultures and myths, but with a lot of recognizable features and references. What they did with the Gods is a good compromise of following some popular archetypes and classical Deities on one hand, and giving their own unique spin or design to some others.

Another place you can draw inspiration from are less well known pantheons or cultures. Reconstructed Proto-Indo European deities could be a good place, and their nature is very close to a number of Archetypes very easily recognizable (Sky Father, Mother Earth, Divine Twins). Celtic, Irish and Gaulish is also similar to other more well known Pantheons like Greek or Norse, but unique in its own way.

Hopefully this may be of help also, some analysis and break downs of Dark Souls deities based on PIE concepts, as well as some intro on Gaulish and PIE Gods:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEh0AHYAzZU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmMfvwDVWAQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=th-2OmPDQD0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXz65ANUoNU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmMfvwDVWAQ

>> No.16562675

>>16549739
Is the religion "real" in your setting? If so, then you should look into the elder scrolls series and get inspiration from that (Sorry to be a vidya pleb but fantasy is a step away from that anyway). It may actually be beneficial to work backwards. Allow the rituals, structure, aesthetics, et al of the faith to be informed by the gods as characters. Religions mediate and are mediated by culture which is the product of [too many things to insert]. So try and formulate the other aspects of the world and jump off from there. There are no rules anon, just stuff that sounds good/looks cool and then the theres the stuff that doesn't.

>> No.16563743

>>16560947
>Tell God's story, then tell the farmer's story, then listen to what the dog has to say.
The dog? What are you talking about?

>> No.16564191
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16564191

>worldbuilding
ngmi

>> No.16564563 [DELETED] 

>>16562393
What defines William Blake as separate from worldbuilding hobbyists (like Tolkien and all his off-shoots) is that he doesn't draw a line between his private mythology and his spiritual development, an elaborate metaphysical system if you will, to fill in the gaps that Christianity couldn't suffice in. You can find aspects of his "worldbuilding" littered throughout all of his poetry.

>> No.16564620

>>16562393
It's not what he necessarily does "well", it's what he brings to the table that no other worldbuilding hobbyist (like Tolkien and off-shoots) ever attempts, that being his mythology acting as an inseparable work from his personal metaphysics. His poetry and metaphysics are built off each other, as he grows as both an artist and a person on his soul searching quest to fill in the gaps Christianity could not suffice in.

>> No.16564647
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16564647

>>16562638
>>16562675
>Dark Souls
>Elder Scrolls

>> No.16564658

>>16564620
>It's not what he necessarily does "well", it's what he brings to the table that no other worldbuilding hobbyist (like Tolkien and off-shoots) ever attempts, that being his mythology acting as an inseparable work from his personal metaphysics. His poetry and metaphysics are built off each other, as he grows as both an artist and a person on his soul searching quest to fill in the gaps Christianity could not suffice in.
So you just want some kind of ideological statement from fictional religions? Sorry i think it's cheap writing, a story should hang on character interactions between real people, and not some kind of religious statement using fictional gods.

>> No.16564751

>>16564658
>So you just want some kind of ideological statement from fictional religions?
This is not what I said at all.
>Sorry i think it's cheap writing
Did you really just call one of the greatest poets of all time, William Blake, a cheap writer? What breed of illiterate retard are you? Get off /lit/ and never return, please.
>a story should hang on character interactions between real people, and not some kind of religious statement using fictional gods.
Get off /lit/ and never return, please. You have absolutely nothing worthwhile to contribute to this board in any capacity.

>> No.16564888

>>16549739
Employ a theory as to how you think gods were made up in the first place. Were it personified motivational patterns like love, power&war, fear etc? Was it idolization of ancestrial kingship of which you're a son? Or were they actually experiential entities that in time joined a contract with humans in terms of religion? Each of these ways offers plenty room for creating gods with not only a character, but a profound backstory.

>general tips regarding religious practices
They have to be social or at least reference a socially themed (Our Father, not My Father)
They have to be rituals in the sense that they frame reality in a certain way. Marriage frames further life as a 'joined state'. Evening shower frames the rest of the evening as 'returning to comfort'. Whatever.
>what kinds of offerings they should be offered
Depends on what's being asked. Forgiveness? Sacrifice something pure that can take your sin on itself. Power? Sacrifice something fat so it can fuel you through deities. Appeasement? Sacrifice something that smells nice.
>What are some good sources on that kind of thing?
Social anthropology and myth analyses: Susanne Langer, Mary Douglas, Claude Lévi Strauss, Marcel Detienne, Ernst Cassirer
>How many gods should a polytheistic religion have, and how should you make sure that there aren't any major gaps in the domains?
Polytheistic religions always have gaps no matter what. Their incoherence was the main flaw that allowed centralized monotheist cults to gain dominance.
>Should entry into the priesthood be gender-limited?
Is the culture of the religion's origin patriarchal or matriarchal?
>Should they be celibate?
Nah, it's weird.

>> No.16564915

>>16550002
make a religion where the god is the bad guy but all his followers are good guys that don't realize he's a bad guy

>> No.16565505

>>16557351
I personally just like it when it is presented as different interpretations of the divine. it is kinda gross when it literally just turns into the noble savage of religion. You can apreciate aspects of this less developed culture, while also appreciating the aspects that come with a more "civilized" culture as well. Would be interested in a setting like this.

>> No.16566382

>>16564888
>Employ a theory as to how you think gods were made up in the first place.
What if the gods concretely exist in-setting?

>> No.16566412

>>16564647
All fantasy is reddit tier. Your book fantasy is just as gay as vidya fantasy. And Elder Scrolls religions were created by a guy whose education was in comparative religion.

>> No.16567559

>>16566412
>And Elder Scrolls religions were created by a guy whose education was in comparative religion.
Sauce? And what’s wrong with that?

>> No.16567562

>>16564915
the inverse of this would also be interesting.

>> No.16567728

>>16563743
It's supposedly something Ken Rolston said during the making of Morrowind (video game).

Idea is, hit all those marks and your creation will seem real. The dog is just a representation of some kind of perspective. But if you manage to showcase culture from all these different sides, you'll hit something that starts to feel real.

>> No.16569401

>>16567562
>the inverse of this would also be interesting.
You mean a good god with evil followers misinterpreting his will? I actually remember an Oglaf comic like that.

>> No.16570401

>>16569401
>>16569401
>a good god with evil followers misinterpreting his will?
That's just catholics

>> No.16571823

>>16570401
>That's just catholics
Seriously?

>> No.16572967

>>16564915
>make a religion where the god is the bad guy but all his followers are good guys that don't realize he's a bad guy
How wouldn't they realize it?

>> No.16573122

>>16567562
That’s Christianity irl.

>> No.16573333

>>16573122
>That’s Christianity irl.
What's your reasoning there?

>> No.16574187

>>16558386
Book of the new sun does this well

>> No.16575403

>>16574187
>Book of the new sun does this well
How?

>> No.16575463

>>16573333
The entire history of the catholic church as an institution, starting from its canonization as a saint of Constantine, the power-hungry familicidal psychopath. By that point, only a scant three hundred-ish after Jesus' life, the church was already morally corrupt enough to hand out sainthoods as favours to ensure more political power was granted to them. Look through the majority of their history and their major events are repeatedly marked by actions antithetical to the doctrines their holy texts preach, such as the papal wars, the mess which is the political maneuvring of the entire Holy Roman Empire's existance, the crusades, the inquisitions, the atrocities commited by missionaries during colonization, etc. They've mellowed down pretty well in the modern era, but it would be ridiculous to suggest that it has nothing to do with most of their power being stripped with the rise of democracy and national independence, particularly in Europe.
Christianity has been used as a tool for immense evil pretty consistently across its history, which is of course counteroperative to the Good God which they claim fealty to.

>> No.16575473

>>16572967
By interpretting miracles, prophets, holy texts, and other similar divine signs incorrectly, which is a process we see universally in the real world, but we lack the perspective of the universal author to concretely say which is correct or incorrect.

>> No.16575489
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16575489

>>16572967
>>make a religion where the god is the bad guy but all his followers are good guys that don't realize he's a bad guy
>How wouldn't they realize it?'
The same way far left & far right don't realize they are the bad guys. Shift focus from means to intentions.
When intentions matter more than actions, the world voluntarily turns into hell.

>> No.16575500

>>16549739
I'm not going to share that secret with an uninitiated pleb like you

>> No.16575604

>>16575489
Intentions do matter, people just don't know their own intentions most of the time and are naturally inclined to believe their fighting for "good," and that's when bad actions become justified in a ultilitarian fashion.
That being said, I'm not sure that an example of the inverse shows how good followers of an evil god would work.

>> No.16575659

>>16549739
Civilized societies tipically reach some form of monism of Monotheism with time, while tribal societies stay polytheistic for much longer. However, since this is literature, and realism doesn't make for a better story, it could be interesting to experiment with how a civilized society could maintain or whether it could even maintain a polytheistic religion.
Avoid making your religions too high-minded. Making a buddhism like "religion" won't work because it has everything to do with being divorced from worldly affairs, and doesn't actually do much for the people that believe in it.
It's important to decide whether in your setting whether gods or God actually exist? That is the first thing you should decide for yourself.

>> No.16575668

>>16572967
in berserk the religion is based off of griffith but no one has any idea what he’s done or what he actually is just that he’s a perfect looking white clad hero that’s making everything superficially better

>> No.16575674

>>16575604
Sure intentions matter. Just not more than actions.

They would work the same way most atrocious ideologues work. Believe horrible means are justified by good ends.
>Yeah we can discriminate [insert race], but only so that [insert other race] can get what they deserve. It's called justice, sweaty.
>Yeah we can shelter this child so much it will literally die if it gets outside its bubble as an adult. It's called compassion, sweaty.
>Yeah we can not tell people that they're fucking themselves over. It's called respect, sweaty.

Pretty much any virtue or even any morally positive concept becomes downright evil when it's idolized and brought to its extreme. In such extremes it's also easy to dissociate concrete consequences from theoretical ends of the big picture and do mental acrobatics like "yeah I lied about being raped but that's because we need to teach men that rape is frequent, I destroyed a man's life for a hypothetical marginal improvement of a topic's awareness"...

Make the virtue something generally acceptable, make the negative immediate consequences something a bit ambiguous and voila, you're going to guide the reader through an emotional and philosophical roller coaster of breakdown of values and narratives.

>> No.16575703

>>16575674
I'm not here to argue moral philosophy, especially with a political slant.
>That being said, I'm not sure that an example of the inverse shows how good followers of an evil god would work.
We're talking about evil intentions (the god's) being put into practice as good actions by his followers.

>> No.16575731

>>16575703
>We're talking about evil intentions (the god's) being put into practice as good actions by his followers.
Yes. The most reliable way an evil God would wreak havoc without the followers knowing, would be if he convinced them that evil means are justified by some virtual end. Although the virtual end is illusional.

>>>Go give everyone food so they can be fed, do so for 3 years
>> Oh yes lord, you are so wise and compassionate, amen
> [village farmers bankrupt, they starve after 3 years]
That's an evil god doing harm by a follower who's convinced he's doing something good.

>> No.16575749

>>16575731
Okay, so you're going with the slant of the evil God twisting his followers' actions into evil ends? I did not follow with that, because for the inverse we're talking about evil followers of a good God twisting his intentions into bad actions and results, I assumed the good followers would twist things into good actions and good results.

>> No.16575791

>>16575731
That scenario presupposes that there ever was a society where the needy didn't exist. Obviously the needy must be given food because they lack money, which can happen to anyone for whatever fucking reason.

>> No.16575866

>>16549739

>>What are some general tips regarding religious practices for these gods and goddesses, like what kinds of offerings they should be offered and what should be avoided when making the religion? What are some good sources on that kind of thing?
In the religion in my latest story, they live in a desert, and pay homage to an emissary, by giving an offering of something important. In a desert, what's more important than water? But of course, in a desert, no one would actually want to waste drinking water, so, obviously, people resorted to symbolic offerings of water: the color blue. I'm torn between strips of blue cloth outside the church, or blue dye people dip their fingers in and smudge on the walls of the church. Both I think, could be visually interesting, but not sure which I like more.

>> No.16575901

>>16549739
Here's a question:
what are some good portents of evil? Demons and stuff? I need some that aren't overtly supernatural, but they get worse until they obviously are.

>> No.16575966

>>16549739
Rip off the theory of Forms and say that there's an "infinite" number of gods, but differentiate between personal gods, anthropomorphic ones, and impersonal ones that are closer to simple principles underlying reality. Consider all physical things to be emanations from these Forms. The main religion will, of course, be those gods which are associated with humanity. Have immense debates over which Forms are conscious or unconscious, which ones should be worshipped, etc. The main religion worships no more than ten gods, but local regions might put their own spin on things. The main church can be both good and evil. On the one hand it is heavily politicized and tries to stamp out all "heresy," on the other hand, it serves as the intermediary between man and the tutelary deities of mankind.

I have a more specific suggestion for you, for your Creator god. He's attributed with creating the elements and other crucial Forms which the church considers unconscious, and the other gods used these things to forge the world. The Creator, however, is a "sick god." You can make this because (A) he's disgusted with what his creation has become, or (B) he sacrificed his vitality in creating the world. Because he's sick, he wakes up and falls asleep randomly. This is to offset the fact that a Creator god should be the most powerful. This on/off nature of the Creator should be extremely influential on all the religions and theurgists, because of how big of an impact his awakenings have on the world.

>> No.16575989

>>16575901
>what are some good portents of evil?
humans

>> No.16576109

>>16575966
I just had another idea. Add some pseudo-gnosticism. The chief of the pantheon should be the god associated with the creation of humanity itself, the one whose influence over the Creator's elements brought man about. Tie this in with questions of free will. The conscious Forms push man about like machines, a world of determinism. The conscious Forms subordinate an individual human's will, so it's a state of slavery. But the God-Man, the chief of the pantheon, is secretly a path to transcendence and freedom. This god's individuality is actually an illusion; he is the collective consciousness of all ascended humans. Ascending is a process which involves destroying your puny human soul (if you even have one) and also recreating yourself in the higher soul of the God-Man. This is done by denying or destroying one's own individual existence, but maintaining the locus of consciousness long enough to sustain the feeling of selfhood and then modifying that feeling into identification with the God-Man. This is a process which is heavily censored by the church, but mankind somehow seems to constantly reinvent it whenever it's thought to be stamped out. Naturally, there are plenty of cults who follow misguided paths to ascension. Progress along this path can be incremental, and even minor progress should be capable of profound changes.

A person who achieves ascension strikes out in three directions. First, a part of him goes upwards to the unknown pleroma. Second, a part of him incarnates downwards in the world. Third, he goes left and right, and from this dichotomy structures his own world through a dialectical process in which he enjoys godhood.

Go crazy with this, OP. Make religion super complex, but mask it all with the main church's simplicity.

>> No.16576260

>>16576109
Oh and for the "devil" make it two devils, brothers actually. One of them destroys, he was created naturally during the creation as the principle that what is made can be unmade. He's the one talked about the most in horror tales. Make him kill, torture, rape, and burn. His brother, however, is more of a psychological figure. He represents the pursuit of things. Greed, lust for power, all forms of ambition and desire. He is a necessary part of humanity, but this is largely ignored for the sake of demonizing him. This brother isn't as evil. He plays a major role in humanity. When you die, he determines your afterlife. Those who long for Heaven are released there. Those with unfulfilled desires can reincarnate. And some extremely passionate people even get revived by him upon death so that they can continue fighting for what they want.

Along with the devils, you have various "demons." They just get up to tempting, Faustian pacts, and that sort of thing. Some of them can be bro-tier though. The good/evil divide is actually very ambiguous. The "good" Forms are the ones who influenced the elements. The "bad" Forms are things which were created as a natural consequence of the creative process. Love, for instance, would be considered chthonic, but the church would probably consider it an angel or a god.

>> No.16577021

>>16576260
>Some of them can be bro-tier though
What does that mean?

>> No.16577334

>>16577021
not evil

>> No.16577876

>>16558386
unironically the elder scrolls

>> No.16578342

>>16560854
This

>> No.16578442
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16578442

>>16549739
>Fine then, how do you create religions for fantasy settings, particularly in ones where the god or gods actually exist in-setting, especially if you want to do more than copy-paste from a religion from our world?
How much coke you got?

>> No.16579319

>>16578442
Go to bed Michael

>> No.16579416
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16579416

>>16579319
>implying Kirkbride sleeps

>> No.16580575

page 10

>> No.16580617
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16580617

>>16564915
Wow you just came up with gnosticism!

>> No.16581062

>>16551145
Look at the religions of early civilizations and how they were impacted by their environment; those of ancient Sumer and Egypt come to mind.

>> No.16582408

>>16581062
>Look at the religions of early civilizations and how they were impacted by their environment; those of ancient Sumer and Egypt come to mind.
How “were” they impacted by their environment?.

>> No.16583726

>>16582408
>How “were” they impacted by their environment?.
Good question.

>> No.16583747

>>16549739
Just make the religions very obvious stand-ins for a conservative boomer's view of Islam and Christianity circa 2004.

>> No.16583770

Thomas Taylor Collected Writings on the Gods and the World
and
>Proclus Commentary on Plato's Timaeus

>> No.16584877

>>16582408
It's been quite a while since I've read into it, but my understanding of it is:
>the dependable seasonal flooding and droughts of the Nile tie in strongly to the themes of rebirth that permeate Egyptian religion.
>conversely, though the fertile crescent was a rich land, it was far more unpredictable with the weather patterns. I believe the sumerians thought of their afterlife as a dark place with the taste of dust.
It is my personal belief that religion exists not only to fulfill the subconscious psychological needs of a people, but acts as a relection of their collective pysche in response to their physical world. Additionally, through its symbols and rites, religion communicates the values of a people too in a way that language cannot. Judaism is a good example too. Strict laws and a strong, patriarchal system are necessity for a desert dwelling people, where the environment was as much a foe as rival tribes. The more egalitarian gods of the Greeks show this also; nature needed to be overcome, but it was man that brought the most strife. I am definitely a layman when it comes to this topic, but these are my thoughts currently.

>> No.16584987

>>16584877
Please excuse the typos. I also wanted to say that these are gross oversimplifications of those religions. There is a lot more nuance to this topic than what I said here, but I think the takeaway is the importance of symbols in religion. Schopenhauer, Bataille, Borges and the French decadents are what led me to this line of thinking, in addition to non literary historical texts. I would reccomend Borges "Ragnarok" and "The Library of Babel" and Schopenhauer's aphorism "On Religion" if these thoughts interest you.

>> No.16585832

>>16584987
>Schopenhauer, Bataille, Borges and the French decadents are what led me to this line of thinking, in addition to non literary historical texts. I would reccomend Borges "Ragnarok" and "The Library of Babel" and Schopenhauer's aphorism "On Religion" if these thoughts interest you.
Thanks, what other sources would you recommend for this, please?

>> No.16587312

>>16554091
>inside a fictional Empire, and religion and faith is a big part to the story. The religion revolves around the Empire's Saints, who are considered the founding fathers of the Empire.
So the US?
I'd assume the Empire ends up crumbling and a new nation being buolt, or the territory being eaten up by their neighbors, with some sort of post-nut clarity in the population(like what happened with Germany in the 40s).

>> No.16587538

>>16575463
>from its canonization as a saint of Constantine
No need to read further. The Church was founded by Jesus Christ our Lord, wether you think that the institution tgat calls itself the Church is the same is different. Of all the things that God wills to happen, is there one without a purpose? Would the Americas be evangelized without the Inquisition or the Crusades? Would the Mexicah stop their idolatry without a fight?
Did you forget our Lord's words to Peter, when He gave him the keys of Heaven?
>>16575473
The incorrect interpretation is often in a different direction. Take for example the Jews, who had a habit of killing prophets. They beieve that when we're in the messianic age, people will worship the God of Israel, but still seethe at Jesus, founder of the Church, whose mission is to preach the Word of God to all nations. they still seethe at the desttuction of the temple, even when that brings the coming of the Savior closer.

>> No.16587581

>>16575749
That would imply the hypothetical god is less powerful than his followers, ergo not a god.

>> No.16587713

>>16575604
Jews torture and mutilate their own babies yet see themselves as the beacon of morality onto the goyim.

>> No.16588383

>>16587713
>Jews torture and mutilate their own babies yet see themselves as the beacon of morality onto the goyim.
You mean circumcision?

>> No.16588654

>>16549739
chincfic already been there, done that:
(xianxia/xuanhuan/wuxia)

The last arc of Warlock of the Magus World is a great start for you.

Basically, Gods wage wars over souls.

>> No.16588688

>>16549739
OP does NOT care about writing fictional religions and will NEVER use your advice for anything but making more threads like these. He uses the creation of threads like these as a pure source of attention, he will never write anything.

>> No.16589903

>>16588688
And how do you that?

>> No.16591380

>>16589903
Know, I meant know.

>> No.16592463

>>16588654
>Basically, Gods wage wars over souls.
Do these wars ever spill out into the mortal coil?

>> No.16592559

>>16592463
yes, they use mortals to do the fighting mostly

I've read
Warlock of the Magus World
Great Demon King
Reverend Insanity

>> No.16593745

>>16592559
>I've read
>Warlock of the Magus World
>Great Demon King
>Reverend Insanity
What others could you recommend?

>> No.16595528

>>16592559
>yes, they use mortals to do the fighting mostly
Why not fight themselves?

>> No.16596740

>>16588654
>chincfic already been there, done that:
>(xianxia/xuanhuan/wuxia)
Please elaborate on the details.

>> No.16597488

>>16592559
>Reverend Insanity
What’s the origin of “reverend”, anyway?

>> No.16598718

bumping

>> No.16598977

>>16549739
seems to me what you'd have to do is imagine an earlier phase of the society you're writing about and then decide which practices would be continued with reverence past their specific functionality.

>> No.16599291

>>16598977
>seems to me what you'd have to do is imagine an earlier phase of the society you're writing about and then decide which practices would be continued with reverence past their specific functionality.
Alright, any potential IRL examples for comparison then, please?

>> No.16600588
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16600588

>>16549739
>worldbuilding

>> No.16601284

>>16600588
>worldbuilding
What's wrong with worldbuilding?

>> No.16601351

>>16599291
well, for starters christian liturgy re-enacts a past when community was necessarily tightly-knit. solomon's temple was built without iron tools by prescription, and the temple of vesta was round instead of the usual square because it was replicating the form of a hut (complete with hearth fire). one roman writer attempted to document all the gods who had cult rituals honoring them in his time and the names and purposes had been forgotten for most despite the fact that their rituals were dutifully performed every year. religion always reaches into the past

>> No.16601450

>>16566412
reddit cope

>> No.16602305
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16602305

learn what a religion is first. inserting some stuff you learnt from fantasy is going to be wrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yT8HEBQjLng

>> No.16603345

>>16597488
>Reverend?
it's being used in the archaic sense
so not a Christian Reverend if that's what you're asking

>> No.16604380

>>16602305
Do you have ay of these from other religions, please?

>> No.16605190
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16605190

>>16559883
This is good advice.

It's like creating a sport when you don't play any of the existing ones.

You'll end up like Rowling, capturing the insanity around it with accuracy and completely missing the mark on what it is for the people that are inside it.

>> No.16605216

>>16601351
A good comparison is christmas trees, a pagan concept adopted to make christianity go down easier.

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