/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.17023933]

not only did Christianity set Europe back ~1600 years but also there is no worthwhile philosophy between Marcus Aurelius and Descartes. IS THERE ANY LITERATURE ABOUT THIS DARK AGE??

[Anonymous No.17023952]

Read Summa Theologica then come back.

[Anonymous No.17023957]

>Marcus Aurelius
>100 BC
>Made remarks about Christians
Eh wot?

[Anonymous No.17023964]

Missing all the Church father's , instead picking Blessed Augustine who is wrong about most of his theological points.

[Anonymous No.17024037]

Too bad it didn't set us back further.

[Anonymous No.17024058]

>>17023933
This timeline is so poorly made and shitty that it actually pisses me off.

[Anonymous No.17024205]

>>17023964
the church fathers weren't philosophers, they just believed revelation and agreed with whatever supported their already decided upon position, tweaking it a bit to match up with their worldview, much like Aquinas.

[Anonymous No.17024231]

>>17023933
>worthwhile philosophy
>Descartes

[Anonymous No.17024279]

>>17023933
>worthwhile philosophy
>Marcus Aurelius

[Anonymous No.17024282]

>>17023933
>worthwhile
>philosophy

[Anonymous No.17024288]

>>17023933
Same with mathematics and science. The Dark Ages were dark indeed, and lasted for more than a thousand years.

[Anonymous No.17024298]

>>17023957

Et two, sets of the 23 chromosome?

[Anonymous No.17024302]

>>17023952
>>17023964
Theological gibberish is without value. True philosophy and science were nearly nonexistent between the Greeks and the Enlightenment.

[Anonymous No.17024315]

>>17024231
LOL, you are a joke. Descartes influence has been fucking massive, I can tell you don't read.

[Anonymous No.17024324]

>>17024302
you have no idea what you're talking about, pick up a history of philosophy book.

[Anonymous No.17024338]

>>17024324
I have a PHD from a top university in Philosophy. You are a clueless retard.

[Anonymous No.17024344]

>>17023952
>if god exists, here is why he does
>oh, forgot to prove the christian part

[Anonymous No.17024349]

>>17024338
>my Jewish professors told me Christianity is cringe and rationalism rocks
Who could have guessed

[Anonymous No.17024354]

>people still believe in the debunked Dark Ages MYTH
>people still believe in the debunked "religion vs science" conflict MYTH

Even the positivist technocrats over at Wikipedia take the editorial line that these Enlightenment chauvinisms have been REFUTED:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conflict_thesis
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Ages_(historiography)

[Anonymous No.17024360]

>>17024349
Pick up a book, you drooling dumbfuck. If there were any great philosophers and mathematicians in the dark ages, you would be able to name them. They don't exist.

[Anonymous No.17024366]

>>17024354
The dark ages were even darker than anyone imagined. Intellectual activity essentially shut down for more than a thousand years.

[Anonymous No.17024370]

>>17024366
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Middle_Ages#Transmission_of_learning

[Anonymous No.17024376]

>>17024360
>Pick up a book
I have a PHD from a top university in Philosophy. You are a clueless retard.
See? I can do it too.

[Anonymous No.17024384]

>>17024370
Europe was intellectually dead for 1500 years.

>>17024376
Still not hearing any names.

[Anonymous No.17024386]

>>17024366
Bait

[Anonymous No.17024387]

>>17023952
no, I don't think I will. begon brainlet

[Anonymous No.17024390]

>>17024354
/thread

[Anonymous No.17024394]

>>17024390
Still no names. They don't exist.

[Anonymous No.17024410]

>>17024354

[Anonymous No.17024417]

>>17024384
Which 1500 years? 1500 years would include Augustine, Boethius, William of Ockham, Thomas Aquinas, Peter Abelard, Petrarch, Dante, Chaucer, Boccaccio, The Pearl Poet, Marie de France, Rumi, Hafez, Averroes, Maimonides, etc. Practically every Renaissance Enlightenment, and modern continental and analytical philosopher and artist has been influenced by medieval forebears. Your argument would be stronger if you limited it to the period between 400 and 1100, but it would still be undermined by things like the Carolingian Renaissance and the Islamic Golden Age.

[Anonymous No.17024425]

Descartes (unironically) ripped off St. Augustine (PBUH)

[Anonymous No.17024428]

>>17024417
>1500 years would include Augustine, Boethius, William of Ockham, Thomas Aquinas, Peter Abelard, Petrarch, Dante, Chaucer, Boccaccio, The Pearl Poet, Marie de France, Rumi, Hafez, Averroes, Maimonides, etc.
Those are literary and religious figures. The 1500-year dark ages refers to the death of rational intellectual activity -- philosophy, mathematics, and science.

[Anonymous No.17024432]

>>17024417
>mumbling about what an imaginary friend may want based on another mumbling
>worthwhile philosophy

[Anonymous No.17024440]

>>17023933
>there is no worthwhile philosophy between Marcus Aurelius and Descartes
>Who needs Ockham's razor?
>Who the fuck even is Montaigne except a fart sniffer?
>I'm happy to have never heard of al-Ghazali
>I'm sure there's no laws based in Grotius nowadays
>Btw I've never considered Arrian or Averroes a source
>and in my autodidactic studies I've never heard of ibnTufail or the invasions of Spain
So Descartes considers you a pleb who should wait until you're sixty to post again? Quite right

[Anonymous No.17024454]

>>17024440
Learn what philosophy is, numbnuts.

[Anonymous No.17024465]

>>17024454
Seemingly it's self excluding since Arrian is the major source for Marcus Aurelius, and Ockham, Montaigne, Grotius, and al-Ghazali all informed Descartes'. But of course you know that, you alive son of the vigilant.

[Anonymous No.17024474]

>>17024428
>>17024432
Philosophy, mathematics and science were not remotely "dead" during that period. The epistemological and analytical problems raised during that time, and the respect for rationality and spirit of critical curiosity fostered by them, laid the foundations for modern philosophical inquiry. Medieval theology is hyper-logical to the point of tedium - that much can be asserted, even as someone who think its conclusions are based on spurious assumptions. I do not know why you persist in these lowbrow pop cultural delusions, when no one with any academic credentials now subscribes to them. You simply make sweeping claims about a whole millennia of human history, without evidence, based on prejudice, and think you are some kind of beacon of rationality. Your base prejudices have been empirically undermined for nearly a century now. The decline was not due to any deficiency in the character or intellectual disposition of the thinkers, but due instead to the institutional decay and loss of texts following the fall of Rome. Without their diligence and love of knowledge, we would not have preserved anything.

[Anonymous No.17024483]

>>17024474
A nonsensical wall of text won't help you. There was no mathematical or logical progress in Europe between the stoics and the enlightenment. There just wasn't. That's why you can't name names.

[Anonymous No.17024488]

>>17024483
>anon furiously hoping anons cannot read the thread
Oh, then you're looking for early Wittgenstein.

[Anonymous No.17024498]

>>17024488
OP seems to have made the mistake that philosophy grads will be less annoying than he is and with less stamina.

[Anonymous No.17024502]

>nooooo, you can't call them the dark ages, they were actually rich with achievements and culture and events

such as?

>noooo, the term dark ages is pejorative and views them through a lens of western science and philosophy being good and anything else being bad

Okay, so what great things happened in the dark ages that we might not know about

>noooo, stop assuming that great things are only the greeks and the enlightenment, you have to appreciate the acheivements of the middle ages

such as?

>nooooo, western imperialism

Its all so tiring, and mainly just contrarians wanting to pick apart established views of the past to justify research grants.

[Anonymous No.17024507]

Middle age philosophers are just useful for improving your understanding of Aristotle

[Anonymous No.17024518]

>>17024483
Why do you ignore William of Ockham, who is the most obvious example? And you assume that just because they reached the "wrong conclusions" that their entire efforts were worthless - by which metric all philosophy could be dismissed, since none has attained perfect positive knowledge - when the worth of the bulk of philosophy, as a whole, lies in the continual clarification and refinement of the processes of knowledge-seeking, which medieval philosophers and theologians contributed to, as is evident in their decisive influence upon analytic philosophers today. It is not as if Descartes and co. popped up out of thin air, with no thread of continuity connecting them to the thinkers before them, and who they responded to. It would be like calling the rationalists worthless, because Hume effectively responded to them, when by eliminating them you would also eliminate the response.

[Anonymous No.17024526]

>>17024502
You were doing fine until you tried to go against western imperialism being a bad thing. If you want western imperialism to be good, we're going to have to hand back all the Greeks to the Arabs. No more Greek stoics, no more cynics, and you can at best read Seneca. Everything in the Suda is getting returned to the store, we can keep talking about Hildegard as if she were the start of philosophy and reinstate the dark ages. Is that okay or did you mean to put something else down on your research grant reddit spaced application?

[Anonymous No.17024534]

>>17023933
>he fell for the Dark Ages meme
Literal retard. And what a stupid image, doesn't account for almost any of the hundreds of the theological, philosophical or scientific developments of the medieval ages.

Literal retard fedoras man baka.

[Anonymous No.17024542]

>>17024428
>to the death of rational intellectual activity -- philosophy, mathematics, and science.
This isn't /sci/ so don't expect people here to know about math or science (if you did 5 minutes of research you'd find sources explicating the technological and economic nuances of the "dark ages", not to mention the links people have already posted within this thread). Rationalist philosophy is for faggotniggers and if you can't prove otherwise then your whining about the "dark age" is meaningless and without foundation. You're just a pussy bugman bitch.

[Anonymous No.17024547]

Those poor medievals, how sorry their lives must've been without Engels and Sartre.

[Anonymous No.17024554]

>noooooo the medieval philosophers based their philosophical projects on unfalsifiable a priori theistic speculations they're worthless!!!!!
>errr so what if that's what the pre-socratics, and plato, and aristotle, and the platonists, the stoics, and the epicureans were all doing too??
>not to mention all the rationalist philosophers of the enlightenment
>just the medievals are bad for this very common characteristic!!!!

[Anonymous No.17024556]

>let's just throw Plotinus out
Honestly the dumbest /lit/ thread I've seen in a while, and there have been quite a few that were just about vidya and no books the past few days. You're dumber than the Digimon OP. Does that get a prize in this day and age of prizes for all retards? I'd tell you to imagine I drew you a star for your effort, but I think it might actually be beyond your limits. I don't even like Neoplatonists, but wew lad that's some full retard shit.

[Anonymous No.17024557]

>>17024428
>let me just ignore people like Roger Bacon and Robert Grosseteste
Utterly retard, pick up a book about the medieval ages before talking about it, you obviously have little source for what you say than bill nye-tier pop-sci shows.

[Anonymous No.17024561]

>>17024205
How would you define "philosopher" then? By my definition of someone who deals with the fields of metaphysics, epistemology and ethics, I think they can be philosophers.

[Anonymous No.17024564]

>>17024483
>nonsensical wall of text
>he can't even read

[Anonymous No.17024569]

Erigena, Maestro eckhart, Avelardo, Maimonides, Averroes, Grosseteste, Okham, Duns Escoto, Tomas de Aquino, San Agustin, Francisco Suarez, Ramon Llull, Giordarno Bruno...

Dont be a fool, medieval philosophy is kino.

People mostly see medieval age as a "dark time" because of liberal propaganda in S.XVI-XX. The truth is most of the archivements of renaissance were made in medieval times, such as humanism and university.

[Anonymous No.17024577]

>>17024547
Kekked.

[Anonymous No.17024586]

>>17024569
Highly based.

[Anonymous No.17024591]

>>17024360
Duns Scootus, Eriugena and Maimonides you massive fucking retard

[Anonymous No.17024601]

>>17024569
>S.
OP ne peut point comprendre français, il est trop inculte. Les chiffres romains aussi

[Anonymous No.17024624]

>worthwhile philosophy
>beauvoir
>sartre
>>17024569
>Francisco Suarez, Ramon Llull
based

[Anonymous No.17024629]

>>17024601
Je suis espagnol, ami

[Anonymous No.17024639]

>>17024601
Je crois que cet anon est un Espagnol.

[Anonymous No.17024643]

>>17024629
Jej I >>17024639 should have turned on auto update, but good to know I was right.

[Anonymous No.17024676]

>>17024629
Lo siento, amigo, vi la S y pensé que estaba en francés. sorry for my shitty Spanish too

[Anonymous No.17024692]

>>17024360
Abélard, Grosseteste, Bacon, Ockham, you faggot.

[Anonymous No.17024698]

>>17024376
Wow, what university you go to and what your credentials are really doesn't matter… If that's what you got out of it you should end it right now.

[Anonymous No.17024699]

>>17024624
Basé et spagnepiluleé. Je suis Spagnol ausi.

[Anonymous No.17024704]

>>17024428
These authors don't only talk of theology, at all. Why are you being so disingenuous? Or are you just not that well-read? Are you Anglo?

[Anonymous No.17024713]

>>17024569
Based, best post in this thread.

[Anonymous No.17024714]

>>17024699
Are you trying to piss off the Catalans or the Basque?

[Anonymous No.17024733]

>>17024315
>he must be good because he was influential
go back, retard

[Anonymous No.17024737]

>>17023933
No science? No incels questioning the foundation of a perfectly good society? Sounds great to me

[Anonymous No.17024812]

>>17024526
I'm not saying its a good thing you brainlet, just that its another of the empty argument given when you ask people to name the achievements of the middle ages.

Responding to the question "why is the dark ages not a valid descriptor for the time period?" with "western imperialism" is as terrible an argument as "muh reddit spacing"

[Anonymous No.17024835]

>>17024737
>a perfectly good society
>implying this is applicable to any period of humanity
hurr...

[Anonymous No.17024836]

>>17024812
>empty argument given when you ask people to name the achievements of the middle ages
If it's empty then we can hand back the Greeks to the Arabs and don't need to listen to them about calendars or space either. It would make it much easier to explain the October Revolution if it happened in October once again to be fair.

[Anonymous No.17024850]

>>17023964
>Blessed Augustine who is wrong about most of his theological points.
Shit and I just opened City of God.

[Anonymous No.17024895]

>>17024534
>philosophical or scientific developments of the medieval ages.
There were none, dumbfuck. Read the thread.

[Anonymous No.17024913]

>>17024836
>actually being this smoothbrained

I'm not debating the merits of the argument about western imperialism, just that "western imperialism" is a shitty reply when you're being asked to name some things that were good about the middle ages. I'm going to say this as simply as possible because you're clearly a bit slow, but "Western Imperialism" is not an achievement of the middle ages. Its literally not answering the question and arguing against a strawman.

[Anonymous No.17024918]

>>17023933
That picture is shockingly trash.

[Anonymous No.17024934]

>>17024428
>rational intellectual activity
This fookin guy.

[Anonymous No.17024948]

>>17024934
>>>/x/ and take your meds.

[Anonymous No.17024975]

>>17024913
So you mean the argument you came up with by yourself in your reddit spacing quoting of nobody is a shitty argument designed to be a straw man which is easily destroyed by anyone who knows about the Arabs, but also that if anyone points out anything about the Arabs to destroy your shitty strawman, you'll consider them retarded? Gotchafam.

[Anonymous No.17024984]

It's literally called the Dark Age for a reason

[Anonymous No.17025018]

>>17024975
>still can't name any achievements of the dark ages

[Anonymous No.17025019]

>>17024569
>university
stolen from Buddhism.

[Anonymous No.17025037]

>>17025018
So you're going to ignore the Arab calendars and astronomy and preservation of the Greeks again? It's cool, famalam, I understand why you prefer arguing against the retard voices in your head instead of people who know shit.

[Anonymous No.17025098]

>>17024288
Let’s us not pretend that Romans were great mathematicians or scientists. I doubt people can even name three major Roman mathematicians or scientists, but one can name thousands of major mathematicians or scientists who were Christian.

[Anonymous No.17025121]

>>17024384
Why do you feel the need to lie? It’s not like Rome was producing any mathematician or scientists either. I doubt most people can even name three Roman mathematicians or scientists. Ancient Rome was no different to Qing China: forever stagnate. And no one blames Christianity for Qing China being so damn backwards in comparison to the west and having their asses handed to them by a tiny Island in the west.

[Anonymous No.17025122]

>>17024344
Based

[Anonymous No.17025125]

>>17025098
No one is arguing that christians can't be good mathematicians. The point is that the cultural environment induced by the catholic church resulted in intellectual stagnation in every field where progress can be measured objectively.
And Roman mathematicians wrote in greek, so you are probably forgetting about people like Ptolemy and Menelaus.

[Anonymous No.17025143]

>>17025125
>where progress can be measured objectively.
How can you even measure progress objectively? What does this even mean?

[Anonymous No.17025173]

>>17025143
In the practical sense, we can at least roughly measure the progress of technology, mathematics, and the sciences. Surely, no one can contest that the works of Euclid or Newton were important landmarks in the history of mankind. Contrast this with philosophy or theology where any /lit/ retard can sperg out over how Aristotle ended philosophy and it is all vague enough that he can bullshit the argument enough that the sub-80 IQ faggots here will believe him.

[Anonymous No.17025179]

>>17025143
I think it means
>Pls ignore them building the Vatican Observatory

[Anonymous No.17025187]

>>17025173
>In the practical sense, we can at least roughly measure the progress of technology, mathematics, and the sciences
You can objectively measure it, kind of, in a rough way? By sort of looking at stuff, and seeing stuff? Like everyone just knows so and so did something so everything else must be the case as well?

[Anonymous No.17025194]

>>17024354
Stop being a massive retard. The Dark ages refer to the decline in knowledge and literacy in Western Europe. Places like the Roman and Persian Empires were untouched by it.

[Anonymous No.17025211]

>>17025194
Dilate.

[Anonymous No.17025212]

>>17025194
>decline in knowledge and literacy in Western Europe
You might want to define Western Europe because Ireland and Britain are preserving classical Latin while Rome is illiterate and about to develop Church Latin.

[Anonymous No.17025264]

>>17025187
I was about to write a wall of text about why the answer is "no", but be honest with me, do you seriously see no qualitative difference in the way we can perceive scientific progress compared to cultural progress?

[Anonymous No.17025321]

>>17025264
He probably does see the difference but he also probably knows that one of the reasons why medical science was hampered by the Roman empire is their blanket ban on human dissection, while Catholic Roman Emperors are doing shit like making it mandatory to attend dissections, and that the Catholic Church is ordering medical dissections to see if Siamese twins have two hearts and shit. Or he knows the Catholic Church sponsored astronomy to reform the Julian calendar. Or he knows that the 9th C Catholic monastery at Salerno reaching out to the Muslims is when medical schools started reintroducing the Greeks to the west. Or, essentially, he knows the answer is not "no" unless you're completely ignorant about what pagan Rome banned or lost or got wrong and what Catholicism reintroduced or reformed.

[Anonymous No.17025455]

>>17025321
In Rome on the Campo dei Fiori
baskets of olives and lemons,
cobbles spattered with wine
and the wreckage of flowers.
Vendors cover the trestles
with rose-pink fish;
armfuls of dark grapes
heaped on peach-down.

On this same square
they burned Giordano Bruno.
Henchmen kindled the pyre
close-pressed by the mob.
Before the flames had died
the taverns were full again,
baskets of olives and lemons
again on the vendors' shoulders.

I thought of the Campo dei Fiori
in Warsaw by the sky-carousel
one clear spring evening
to the strains of a carnival tune.
The bright melody drowned
the salvos from the ghetto wall,
and couples were flying
high in the cloudless sky.

At times wind from the burning
would drift dark kites along
and riders on the carousel
caught petals in midair.
That same hot wind
blew open the skirts of the girls
and the crowds were laughing
on that beautiful Warsaw Sunday.

Someone will read as moral
that the people of Rome or Warsaw
haggle, laugh, make love
as they pass by the martyrs' pyres.
Someone else will read
of the passing of things human,
of the oblivion
born before the flames have died.

But that day I thought only
of the loneliness of the dying,
of how, when Giordano
climbed to his burning
he could not find
in any human tongue
words for mankind,
mankind who live on.

Already they were back at their wine
or peddled their white starfish,
baskets of olives and lemons
they had shouldered to the fair,
and he already distanced
as if centuries had passed
while they paused just a moment
for his flying in the fire.

Those dying here, the lonely
forgotten by the world,
our tongue becomes for them
the language of an ancient planet.
Until, when all is legend
and many years have passed,
on a new Campo dei Fiori
rage will kindle at a poet's word.

[Anonymous No.17026179]

>>17024205
>There are standards in philosophy

[Anonymous No.17026237]

>>17024417
>Augustine, Boethius, William of Ockham, Thomas Aquinas, Peter Abelard, Petrarch, Dante, Chaucer, Boccaccio, The Pearl Poet, Marie de France, Rumi, Hafez, Averroes, Maimonides, etc
zero interesting philosophy during this time

[Anonymous No.17026392]

>>17024569
>Erigena, Maestro eckhart, Avelardo, Maimonides, Averroes, Grosseteste, Okham, Duns Escoto, Tomas de Aquino, San Agustin, Francisco Suarez, Ramon Llull, Giordarno Bruno...
nothing that they prior said was interesting. anything worthwhile they created was accidental in between debating whether a baby that dies before being christened goes to Hell out not.
It must be so exhausting bring a Christian and having to cope about everything, constantly. your religion MURDERED DISBELIEVERS during this time and any philosopher that accomplished anything during this time was threatened by Christians even if he professed his love for the Christian god. You set an of humanity back. Theology is useless too and you know it. you were brainwashed in childhood and that was abuse. break the cycle

[Anonymous No.17026435]

>>17025143
>How can you even measure progress objectively? What does this even mean?
aren't you the same religious zealot arguing that these useless theologians made philosophical progress during the fucking dark ages with a gun you their head of they said the wrong thing?

>>17025173
don't even bother trying, you're speaking with someone who's entire life story and ego require that their faith is correct. he'd probably fall apart like a mental patient if he had the strength to confront the obvious reality in front of him

[Anonymous No.17026470]

>>17024895
you have been humiliated in this thread retard

[Anonymous No.17026500]

>>17026392
>i-it doesn't count
I accept your defeat

[Anonymous No.17026512]

>>17024417
Some of these are Arabs. That’s not European

[Anonymous No.17026552]

>>17026470
No he hasn't. You live in a bubble. These philosophers listed are all shit. Not only their work, but their lives were shit. You have no context on your arguments. These men had to work strongly to convince your idiot Christians they were "good Christians" to avoid being burned alive. Total oppression of thought. Your religion is obviously a mental disease that served no purpose. You are a mental neanderthal and your faith is in freefall. This is the end of your reign. We will spit on the grave. Every time a church is abandoned and torn down, I will smile. And if demographic trends continue the week be much to smile about

>>17026500
I haven't been arguing at all in this thread until now, schizo freak. Jesus was not the son of God, because there are no gods. I'm sorry your parents did this to you

[Anonymous No.17026554]

>>17023933
Holy retard. Read Pirenne, or Robert Lopez. Christianity didn't set Europe back. We've had countless threads debunking this on /his/.

[Anonymous No.17026556]

>>17023933
If you think christianity was bad, just look at islam

[Anonymous No.17026642]

>>17026554
> deboonked by hyper-partisan Catholic reactionaries of /his/
into the trash

>>17026556
Islam, christianity, judaism are all trash. But it's ironic that Christians accuse Islam of being oppressive when it's the exact same shit they did and would do if the Catholic Church returned to power. I'm not a troon, redditor, Democrat, or communist either so please don't start with your boogiemen bullshit

[Anonymous No.17026719]

>>17023933
not christianity but the collapse of political order, yes.

[Anonymous No.17026731]

>>17023933
https://web.maths.unsw.edu.au/~jim/renaissance.html
oh no no no renaissance bros

[Anonymous No.17027213]

>>17024338
thank you for making clear to everyone that philosophy courses are not only superficial but misleading too. you have no idea about what philosophy is and you studied it in a ''university''. ahahahahhahaahhahahaha

[Anonymous No.17027227]

>>17024302
>>17024338
Ahh so this is modern philosophical education

[Anonymous No.17027290]

>>17025455
Bruno was not a scientist

[Anonymous No.17027294]

>>17024984
That was a term conjured by Victorians because they had very limited understanding of the early medieval ages. Nowadays, no serious historian uses it.

[Anonymous No.17027317]

>>17027294
>Nothing important happened during this time!
<Yes, hence the name given
>No that name is misleading!
k

[Anonymous No.17027336]

>>17024984
>lmao do you really believe Nazis were socialists just because they called themselves national socialists? hahaha dumb rightoid watch this breadtuber DEBOONKING your stupid argument
>NOOOO WHAT DO YOU MEAN INTELLECTUAL PROGRESS WASN'T ARRESTED DURING THE DARK AGES DESPITE WHAT MY ENLIGHTENMENT PROPAGANDISTS TOLD ME I MEAN IT'S CALLED THE DARK AGES FOR A REASON

[Anonymous No.17027345]

>>17027336
nice strawman
I guess water doesnt have twice as many oxygerinoos per baseddrogen because names dont mean anything

[Anonymous No.17027356]

>>17027345
>>17027345
>because names dont mean anything
Not if the names are conjured by anti-Christian propagandists, read the postmodernists

[Anonymous No.17027358]

>>17024315
Would you say the same for Aquinas since Descartes heavily relies on him?

[Anonymous No.17027373]

>>17024302
You must be either a retard or have never actually studied medieval philosophy. Ask anyone that actually studied it and they will gladly tell you thats its the most fascinating, diverse and beautiful period of philosophy

Medieval philosophy is the ultimate filter for pseudos since there arent any Wikipedia articles or tumbrl posts about De divisione Naturae, Bonaventura or Aquinas Metaphysics.

[Anonymous No.17027434]

>>17027356
>anti-Christian propagandists
grade yourself

[Anonymous No.17027450]

>>17027434
>logical fallacy
I'm ashamed I took this obvious bait

[Anonymous No.17027459]

>>17027450
the fallacy fallacy, good choice

[Anonymous No.17027465]

>>17023952
Aquinas is a pseud

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.17027923]

Someone posted this. Haven’t looked into it myself

[Anonymous No.17028182]

it really fucking actually annoys me though. if this homeless kike wasnt born (i mean he probably actually wasnt) and didnt condemn rationality we wouldnt have had centuries of utter insanity. think about the romans and greeks, mostly atheistic, philosophy and science, medicene, freedom of sexuality, boypussy, tragedy, art. all screamed into the ground by some bearded freak and his schizo jew followers. 1000 years of superstition, stagnation, conflict. science and having sex offends bearded sky man! how the actual fuck did this happen? I mean, in modern terms, seeing retards vote for right wing populists saying nothing but irrational lies makes me understand and its semi depressing. Whenever a good society comes about these muh feels muh skyfairy people eliminate it, THEY are the great filter. they fucked us. we could be exploring the fucking stars, loli sex VR with full tactile feedback, putting my immortal consciousness inside lines of code to keep the party going and keep finding the wonders of science in the galaxy. we could have that right now. but screeching beard jew fucked it.

[Anonymous No.17028206]

non ironic question, when did atheists become the uneducated retards? this thread is humiliating

[Anonymous No.17028368]

>>17024569
/thread

[Anonymous No.17028404]

>>17028182
>(i mean he probably actually wasnt)
The historicity regarding Jesus of Nazareth is effectively certain with virtually all scholars in the field.

[Anonymous No.17028412]

>>17028404
>virtually (((all scholars))) in the field
lol. Truth is not a democracy, pseud.

[Anonymous No.17028427]

>>17028412
>Truth is not a democracy
Agree, but there are mountains of evidence pointing to the confirmation of the existence of Jesus Christ.
If you would like to counter all that evidence, I would be glad to consider yours.

[Anonymous No.17028438]

>>17024058
t. seething that Ayn Rand isnt included

[Anonymous No.17028441]

>>17028427
There is zero contemporaneous evidence. It's all hearsay from cult documents written centuries later.

[Anonymous No.17028446]

>>17028441
pontius pilate

[Anonymous No.17028454]

>>17028206
Imagine being this retarded.

[Anonymous No.17028461]

>>17028446
Pilate wasn't Jesus, dumbshit.

[Anonymous No.17028693]

>>17028182
>if this homeless kike wasnt born (i mean he probably actually wasnt) and didnt condemn rationality we wouldnt have had centuries of utter insanity
You know nothing about medieval philosophy, if anything the scholastic were hyperrational and what they lacked was precisely the faith element, something that al-Ghazali and Luther (pbuh) rightly reproached them for

[Anonymous No.17028732]

>>17023952
Aquinas is mentioned in OP's pic. Also it's just sophistry about imaginary gay shit like angels.

[Anonymous No.17028813]

>there were plenty of philosophers of note during the dark ages!
>look, here is an obscure work by christus kukius, a monk living in the mountains who wrote 700 pages about the different sorts of demons who tried to have sex with him and his friends
tbqh i dont buy into the whole dark ages hype, but its telling that I will be the first to mention john the grammarian in this thread
christcucks really think rehashing christology/demonology/plagiarized greek philosophy with a jewish paint job over it, is profound

[Anonymous No.17029046]

>>17028454
Read the thread. You guys are fucking sub midwit

[Anonymous No.17029075]

>>17023933
>Christianity didn't cause the fall of Rome
>The (inevitable) fall of Rome is what caused the stagnation
>You are wrong anyway, since Christianity is correct and there was plenty of social, philosophical and theological development in these years
>Rationalism, while beginning as a positive addition to philosophy, marked the beginning of the end, leading to materialism and nonsensism

[Anonymous No.17029086]

>>17023933
>Hrifrhhrt
>de Beauvoir
>Sartre
Lmao irrelevant

[Anonymous No.17029399]

>>17029046
You were dropped on your head as a child, I assume.

[Anonymous No.17029439]

>>17026435
>aren't you the same religious zealot arguing that these useless theologians made philosophical progress during the fucking dark ages with a gun you their head of they said the wrong thing?
Why is it that you can't just state the truth about this time period but instead have to make up lies about the Church enforcing dogma? St. Aquinas had some of his propositions condemned by the bishop of Paris and yet
1: His works were still distributed and read
2: Thomism was condemned in various parts at various times and the condemnations were opposed by Thomist's he had taught and the Dominican order in general
None of this would be possible if the "dark ages" were a period of such absolute conformity in thought that you're implying.

>don't even bother trying, you're speaking with someone who's entire life story and ego require that their faith is correct. he'd probably fall apart like a mental patient if he had the strength to confront the obvious reality in front of him
Sorry, that's what my boyfriend does for me, not my faith.

[Anonymous No.17029987]

>>17026552
All I am hearing is seething subhuman. Make better arguments and stop samefagging.

[Anonymous No.17029996]

>>17026642
nice meme image dumbfuck go back to your discord
>>17027317
no argument tranny

[Anonymous No.17030013]

>>17027465
t. drooling retard
>>17028461
stop pretending
>>17029399
you have been eviscerated itt

[Anonymous No.17030024]

>>17028813
you will never be a woman

[Anonymous No.17030052]

>>17023933
no decent writing between them?
Hobbes, Averroes, Aquinas. Some of Aquinas is referenced seriously in multiple studies in modern philosophy (language, mind)

[Anonymous No.17030057]

>>17030013
>t. assblasted christcuck

[Anonymous No.17030087]

>>17030057
no argument seething tranny

[Anonymous No.17030116]

>>17024354
Religion has nothing to do with science. It doesn't matter that there have been religious scientists and vice versa.

[Anonymous No.17030148]

>>17023933
Ancient world
>a few different worldviews, hence a few different philosophies
Middle ages
>Christianity by far dominates european thinking, hence fewer different philosophies
Modern world
>a gazilion different worldviews, and nobody feels a strong conviction of The Truth, hence a gazillion diffrerent philosophies and counting.

[Anonymous No.17030180]

>>17027923
>woman author
>recommended by attnwhore tripfag
Thank you for preemptively refuting yourself.

[Anonymous No.17030214]

>>17028412
>everyone who doesn't spit back my LARPagan lionization narrative verbatim is a Jew

[Anonymous No.17030254]

>>17030214
Walk it off, Shlomo.

[Anonymous No.17030294]

>>17030254
Are you fucking retarded, dude? Is this some new angle? I hope you're not sincere, because neopagan-Christian infighting is very possibly the most targeted fracture-point (by feds and Jews, but I restate myself) in White nationalism.

[Anonymous No.17030338]

>>17024344
The point of the ST wasn't to prove the Christian God necessarily. That was mostly the Summa Contra Gentiles mate.

[Anonymous No.17030432]

>>17029075
The cause of the collapse of Rome is their lack of morality and especially sexual morality. The former resulted in bad, corrupt and weak government and the latter caused shrinking birthrates and hence an inability to sustain the population. In a sense, they stagnated themselves but it was inevitable though. Once an empire gets so large, it seems that such behaviors become the norm.

[Anonymous No.17030436]

>>17024366
>>17024410
>>17025194
RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT RETARD ALERT

[Anonymous No.17030497]

>>17028693
>something that al-Ghazali and Luther (pbuh) rightly reproached them for
Luther was ultimately influenced by William of Ockham, who was the most influential of the nominalists and started the trend toward modernity by not only fermenting the grounds of fideism in Protestantism, but the atheistic materialist mindset of modernity. If anything, the Scholastics like Aquinas, Bacon and the like approached theology in a more rational way by saying there are basic proofs of God's order in nature but there are ultimately somethings that are matters of faith. Even Jews and Early Christians in Hellenistic times held such views, seeing how St. Paul shows knowledge of Stoic philosophy and use of it not only at the Areopagus, but even in his epistles and the Gospel of John uses Stoic terminology to describe Jesus Christ. There's nothing wrong with using reason to assent to God, so long as you understand that God is above our ways. Truth is One ultimately, but reason only gets us so far to understand Truth since all reason is grounded ultimately in faith which is a theological virtue.

[Anonymous No.17030514]

>>17030148
lmao

[Anonymous No.17030557]

The term "dark ages" is renaissant propaganda.

The best and deepest works of thinking were written in the middle ages

[Anonymous No.17030715]

Fronto, Aulus Gellius, Apulejus, Tertullian, Homilien, Pretonius, Cyprianus, Arnobius, Lactantius, Commodian, Ammianus, Marcellinus, Aurelian Victor, Symmachus, Microbius, Claudius, Rutilius, Ausonius, Dracontius, Claudius Mamertius, Avitus von Wien, Ennodius, Eugippius, Severinus, Veranius du Gévaudan, Aurelian, Ferreolus, Rotherius, Fortunatus, Boëthius, Gregor von Tours, Jornandes, Eginhart, Alcuin, Frechulf, Regino, Abbo le Courbé, Ermold le Noir

Just a few, I really think most of the posters on this thread are no scholars.

[Anonymous No.17030756]

>>17023933
This is bait.

Or just america college education.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.17030836]

>>17030180
>Hangs around/lit/
>Doesn’t read

[Anonymous No.17030859]

>>17023933
This thread is a disgrace.

[Anonymous No.17030871]

Blame Constantine the Great for inflicting christianity on us.

[Anonymous No.17030874]

>>17024417
>the Carolingian Renaissance
The Carolingian Renaissance was notable for helping to preserve older Greek and Roman texts, not for producing original thought

[Anonymous No.17030926]

>>17023933
an interesting thing to note is that the IQ of rome declined heavily following the mass conversion to christianity (an eastern religion, primarily endorsed by the urban low IQ poor and the nonwhite eastern subjects of the empire and in the metropolitan areas), which was exacerbated by the massacre of the high IQ pagan population of academics and aristocracy

coincidentally, as the IQ of europe steadily increased again by the 1600s, philosophy moved away from christianity and became relevant again and we experienced the renaissance and the enlightenment and a return to high IQ european greco-roman appreciation rather than low IQ semitic abrahamist christian values

>>17023952
theological work that is dependent on you to accept the premise that the christian god exists and blatant appropriation of aristotelian ideas, not remotely original
doesn't even prove the existence of the christian god or the validity of christianity either, just of a deity
christcucks have to rely on sophistry to be able to shill yahwehism

>>17023964
missing a bunch of north africans and near easterners who did nothing for europe whatsoever*
neurotic schizos like augustine who had a mental breakdown due to guilt are among the best of the church fathers, which says it all

[Anonymous No.17030929]

>>17030874
I really wish americans were not allowed to read, so such piles of vomit, such as your statement, could be prevented.

[Anonymous No.17030933]

>>17030926
You should really pick up some literature before posting here, you are emberassing yourself.

[Anonymous No.17030947]

>>17023933
>Europe would be colonizing the moon in 1600 if it weren't for Christianity
do atheists unironically believe this? do you also blame Buddhism and animism for holding back Asia and Africa?

[Anonymous No.17030953]

>>17024205
based
>>17024231
>>17024733
descartes' philosophy holds up on its own regardless of influence, this is a pseud tier remark
>>17025098
>Let’s us not pretend that Romans were great mathematicians or scientists
ignore the massive works of roman engineering which are products of mathematics and science
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_historic_inventions
it took centuries for christian europe to accomplish anything and the accomplishments arent due to christianity whatsoever but the gradual increase in european IQ
>>17024324
>>17024349
>>17027213
>>17027227
>not a single refutation

[Anonymous No.17030955]

>>17030947
I recommend you to stop talking to these people, they have only read the Nietzsche article on Wikipedia.

[Anonymous No.17030959]

>>17030926
Best post ITT

>>17030933
stop embarrassing yourself

[Anonymous No.17030962]

>>17030953
Read the thread again. You are trolling now.

[Anonymous No.17030968]

>>17030953
>gradual increase in european IQ
Yep, I wonder how much contribution christianity played in this eugenic selection pattern though?

[Anonymous No.17030971]

>>17024354
>>17024370
>>17024376
>>17024390
>>17024417
>>17024425
>>17024440
>christians still try to cope with the fact they destroyed the pagan world and plummeted the IQ of europe for centuries

[Anonymous No.17030984]

>>17024526
>hand back the Greeks to the Arabs
as if Greeks aren't European or part of the European philosophical tradition
obvious nonwhite brainlet

[Anonymous No.17030985]

>>17030859
Agreed. Nick Fuentes told me that being Catholic is based.

[Anonymous No.17030988]

>>17024556
>including plotinus in the medieval dark ages

[Anonymous No.17030991]

>>17030985
Who?

[Anonymous No.17030995]

>>17024526
>If you want western imperialism to be good, we're going to have to hand back all the Greeks to the Arabs.

Poor byzantines, imagine being one of them and getting memory holed this hard in the future just because you didn't fit into enlightenment-era historiography's narrative of christians being dum-dums.

Anyway, here's some reading for you, kiddo.
>Jacques Heers : Le Moyen Age, une imposture
> Rémi Brague : Au moyen du Moyen-Age - Philosophies médiévales en chrétienté, judaïsme et islam
>Sylvain Gouguenheim : La gloire des Grecs

Don't slack.

[Anonymous No.17030996]

>>17030962
not a refutation
>>17030933
not even close to a refutation, just a midwit level seethe

[Anonymous No.17030999]

>>17030988
>medieval dark ages

Never existed, that is a buzzword.

[Anonymous No.17031003]

>>17030995
>>Jacques Heers : Le Moyen Age, une imposture
>> Rémi Brague : Au moyen du Moyen-Age - Philosophies médiévales en chrétienté, judaïsme et islam
>>Sylvain Gouguenheim : La gloire des Grecs

Blow it out your ass.

[Anonymous No.17031011]

>>17030971
>he thinks the guys mentioning Rumi and al-Ghazali are Christian
Christians did 9/11 is a new one.

[Anonymous No.17031013]

>>17030996
Read the thread again.

After that you can tell me why you were wrong , than I will recommend you further works.

My way or no way. I can teach you, if you are willing to learn.

[Anonymous No.17031014]

>>17030988
>Plotinus happened before Marcus Aurelius
K

[Anonymous No.17031027]

>>17028813
>>17024354

It was a Dark Age for PHILOSOPHY. Progress was essential stagnant for over 1,OOO fucking years. Yes, there was tech progress, yes there was science. PHILOSOPHY accomplished absolutely nothing except when it acted IN OPPOSITION TO THE CHURCH. The fucking Catholic Church ruined philosophy. PHILOSOPHY would have IMPROVED EVERYTHING. The point is not that NOTHING happened, it's about what COULD have happened, but DIDN'T, BECAUSE of THE CHURCH!!!!!!

[Anonymous No.17031040]

Is this thread a false flag to make atheists look like retards? Or are fedoras still this dumb in 2020?

[Anonymous No.17031075]

>>17031027
I >>17030715 am just going to let your statement kneel in it's own vomit.

But do not worry, you propably are more well read than 95% of americans, it's just that you can not be well read without at least being able to read latin fluently.

Your professors have never heard of these authors, because of a certain tradition which has made these books propaply even unavailable in your local bib.

You are, just like >>17030926 talking about a subject you know nothing about, and propably never will, because you lack the ressourses, nessesary upbringing and discipline.

[Anonymous No.17031084]

>>17031040
Always has been.

[Anonymous No.17031124]

You just have to know where to look

[Anonymous No.17031138]

>>17031075
Honestly, it's not even the fact that he doesn't know all those authors because it is kind of a trail to read that much. It's that he assumes that just because he has never heard of Aquinas, Bacon, Grosseteste, Augustine (which he should have heard), Boethius, Alcuin, Maimonides, Averroes and other clearly medieval philosophers (and in the case of several of the above mentioned, scientists and mathematicians), that nothing happened for fucking 1500 years when I can literally pull any book by the above mentioned and disprove that instantaneously. It goes to show you that the modern world is degenerating mentally as well as spiritually and physically. Even illiterate primeval tribesmen don't do this.

[Anonymous No.17031146]

>>17031138
*it is kind of a trial

[Anonymous No.17031269]

>>17031013
>my way or no way
fuck off faggot

>>17031014
strawman

[Anonymous No.17031320]

>>17023933
This is a bait post but I think your assumption is basically wrong and I have a lot of ideas about it.
The tldr being that the influence of the Germanics and their world-affirming, kinship based culture is what did this. In order for people to get all autistic about gay philosophy stuff you basically have to have an anomic, alienated culture where people feel meaninglessness and have to grapple with it.

[Anonymous No.17031423]

>>17031027
>NOOoOOO PHILOSOPHY DIDN'T CONFORM TO MY ENLIGHTENMENT IDEAS!!!!

[Anonymous No.17031442]

>>17023933
Dark ages didn't even happen, phantom time hypothesis

King Louis the 3rd or whatever his name was, had to make up a large chunk of history to justify his reign

[Anonymous No.17031575]

>>17031138
It would be enough to just not opinionate about topics on does know nothing about.

I dont go into the physics faculty and scream that the earth is flat.

[Anonymous No.17031586]

>>17031269
>/b/

[Anonymous No.17031822]

Saint Augustine, Thomas Aquinas, Pierre Abelard, John of Salisbury, all very worthwhile philosophers.

Christianity didn’t kill philosophy at all, it actually sparked a huge discourse on toleration that lasted one thousand years and culminated in the works of Martin Luther. The only thing that died was skepticism, because of some bell curve that only the dumbest and greatest minds could reasonably doubt their own existence.

[Anonymous No.17033271]

>>17026512
>these Islamic age philosophers were Arabs
Nice try Muhammad.

[Anonymous No.17033438]

>>17030436
Let's jet out, we'll cruise at hyperspeed
I got the beat, I got the beat
And that's all we need, check it out!

Hip-hop, hip-, hip-hop, hip-hop
Hip-hop, hip-, hip-hop, hip-hop
Hip-hop, hip-, hip-hop, hip-hop

Hip-, hip-, hip-, hip-hop, hip-hop, hip-hop, hip-hop
Hip-, hip-, hip-, hip-hop, hip-hop, hip-hop, hip-hop
Hip-, hip-, hip-, hip-hop, hip-hop, hip-hop, hip-hop
Hip-, hip-, hip-, hip-hop, hip-hop, hip-hop, hip-hop

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87Cn6iX4rYU

[Anonymous No.17033461]

>>17030959
>no u
is that all you can post low IQ subhuman?
>>17030926
any sources on your moronic drivel?

[Anonymous No.17033471]

>>17031003
I accept your surrender

[Anonymous No.17033474]

>>17033438
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSTBFZ-To2E
Miaow...
little bit of base
little bit of raas
little bit of base
little bit of raas
little bit of raas
Mummy says: raas
Mummy says: base
Mummy says: raas
Mummy says: base
bbbase
little bit of base
little bit of base
little bit of raas
little bit of base
little bit of raas
little bit of base
little bit of raas
Miaow...
little bit of base
little bit of raas
Miaow...
little bit of base
little bit of raas
little bit of base
little bit of raas
little bit of base
little bit of raas
little bit of raas
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSTBFZ-To2E

Obviously, we're talking about average working people, not elite billionaires who live off dividends.

[Anonymous No.17033516]

>>17030995
>>17033471
You should add Philosophy in the Middle Ages which was compiled and edited by Arthur Hyman and James Walsh

[Anonymous No.17033532]

>>17033516
that wasn't his point retard

[Anonymous No.17033537]

>>17023952
literally just Aristotle's metaphysics degenerated by christianity

[Anonymous No.17033540]

>>17033532
I'm recommending another book. That's the entire point of the previous post.

[Anonymous No.17033542]

>>17033537
no improved subhuman

[Anonymous No.17033596]

The idea that philosophy advanced from circa AD500 to circa AD1500 is obviously bullshit.

Take a look above if there is any question.

[Anonymous No.17033969]

>>17030953
lol I just looked through the historical inventions and the amount of historical inventions in ancient times seem absolutely equal to medieval times. I mean in the second century (the height of the Roman Empire) absolutely nothing relevant was invented in Rome and the only relevant invention came China and India during that time. Do you even read what you link? You proved yourself wrong with your own link.

> arent due to christianity whatsoever but the gradual increase in european IQ

Does it really only take centuries for people’s IQ to increase? Are you saying black people’s IQ will eventually increase? I wonder why then there’s so much racism against them as if they were a lost cause and no hope for them.

[Anonymous No.17033993]

>>17023933
https://plato.stanford.edu/new.html
Like a third of these articles are about medievals. You're just ignorant.

[Anonymous No.17034007]

I was listening to some audiobook last night about Vatican I and some ultramontane guy was like "the Persians should have won the Battle of Marathon and thus spared the world the pernicious influence of Plato, Aristotle, Demosthenes, and the rest. " I was like holy based and a half.

[Anonymous No.17034557]

>>17023933
>worthwhile philosophy
>Jean Paul Sartgay

[Anonymous No.17034601]

>>17024376
>have a PHD from a top university in Philosophy
No wonder you shitpost here fucking NEET.

[Anonymous No.17034670]

>>17024376
>from a top university in
Oh so you're a rich kid and/or good at networking.

[Anonymous No.17035069]

>>17033596
Imbecile

[Anonymous No.17035177]

>>17030836
An accurate self-summary, Buttertranny.

[Anonymous No.17035193]

>>17030971
>LARPagans are so insufferably contrarian they circle back around to the most kosher possible narrative