/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.17101754]

to what extent was the Frankfurt School actually responsible for current "postmodern neomarxism" / "woke culture"?

[Anonymous No.17101766]

>>17101754
To no extent

[Anonymous No.17101771]

None of them advocated cutting off your dick and calling yourself a woman

[Anonymous No.17101782]

>>17101754
Pope Benedict liked them and also smoked hookah with Ernst Bloch.

[Anonymous No.17101793]

not at all. they railed against that

[Anonymous No.17101803]

>>17101782
https://3quarksdaily.com/3quarksdaily/2013/01/benedict-xvi-on-christian-hope-invokes-adorno-and-horkheimer.html

[Anonymous No.17101815]

>>17101766
fpbp

[Anonymous No.17101821]

i wish the right read more marxist critical theory, its self lobotomy at this point

[Anonymous No.17101830]

>>17101782

[Anonymous No.17101931]

>>17101754
The development of critical theory contributed indirectly, but you can hardly blame them for that. Marcuse works ng with a bunch of campus radicals in the 60s partially makes him to blame.

[Anonymous No.17101951]

>>17101754
Adorno would have hated the current West just as much as Spengler did.

[Anonymous No.17101955]

>>17101754
they literally warned us about it

[Anonymous No.17101961]

>>17101766
fpbp

[Anonymous No.17101965]

>>17101771
Rent free

[Anonymous No.17101998]

>>17101754
Not at all. They'd be called fascists and banned on Twitter.

[Anonymous No.17102001]

>>17101754
Not that responsible, imo. "Postmodern neomarxism" is a reaction to Fascism that would've happened whether or not the Frankfurt school became prominent in academia. "Woke culture" is a strain of American Protestant revivalism especially concerned with black Americans, and is an outgrowth of the failure of Civil Rights to produce equal outcomes for blacks, which became obvious by the time of the 2nd Obama administration.

[Anonymous No.17102007]

>>17101754
Very little (Marcuse may have had some of those tendencies; Adorno none at all). Modern "wokeness" (identity politics) mainly came out of postcolonial theory in the 80s. Read/watch Vivek Chibber.

[Anonymous No.17102033]

>>17102001
>Woke culture" is a strain of American Protestant revivalism
i hear this stuff all the time but i have no idea where people get this stuff. is there a book on this i can read?

[Anonymous No.17102050]

>>17102033
Look into what popular religious figures around the time of the Second Great Awakening or Third Great Awakening wrote and ask yourself if it sounds familiar.

[Anonymous No.17102066]

>>17102050
>>17102033
Also note the more obvious characteristics - the Summer of George was basically a nationwide tent revival. Past American Protestant revivals were characterized by the same sorts of behaviors. Of course they also had "Conservative Evangelicals", which we would today call the Tea Party or QAnon.

[Anonymous No.17102103]

>>17101754
"Post-modern neo-marxism" is a complete oxymoron. Marxism is a modern philosophy/uses a modern methodology ie that there is an objective reality that can be quantified. Post-modernists may draw on some of Marx's dialectical methods to come to their conclusions but their conclusions are at odds with those of a materialist. They may call themselves socialists but Marx himself has already decried and refuted them. I don't know enough about Adorno or the Frankfurt school because I don't really want to concern myself with nerd shit but I can tell you for certain that the Post-Modernists do not draw much from the Frankfurt school. They don't really have a unified ideology at all really, or even universally accepted theoretical figures (besides Bell Hooks maybe but that's ONLY because she is a black woman lmao) expressly because they reject the universality of anything.

[Anonymous No.17102119]

More than people think. The '60s and '70s counterculture made a conscious pose out of grounding themselves in "theory." This led to incredibly degenerate bourgeois "look at me I read theory" academic culture in the '70s-'90s in Germany and central and eastern Europe. Frankfurt-influenced schools were practically dogma in some of those countries, they became very oppressive and routinised the charisma of the original hotdogs in all the ways you would expect from routinisation of charisma. Jobber academic broads using half-digested Horkheimer and typical German nepotism to erect themselves as ivory tower doyens for a few decades.

So it's not so much them as their latter-day followers, although they could be plenty bad themelves. The very idea of psychopathologising anti-communist reaction is inherently dangerous because it others the reactionaries as an a priori condition of studying them. It studies them as retarded inert objects who were so retarded because they were too dumb and retarded to realise how based communism is. It has to do that as a starting point, it is an objective and not a hermeneutical analysis. This is not necessarily fatal - it is perfectly valid to study other groups under the ASPECT of "false consciousness," i.e. from a position of knowing more/better than they do.

But if one forgets that this stance is a stance, if one starts to just assume it as a default true way of seeing things, it becomes very dangerous. It is demeaning to the reactionaries (who are the people you're trying to save, right? not just a fun scapegoat to ritually hate and humiliate while occupying bourgeois academic sinecures, right? ..right???). But it is also dangerous because it blinds you to understanding the reactionaries. More and more they become simple mechanisms: retard is dumb because dumb retard. His mommy didn't love him enough and he couldn't have sex (insert "lmao haha fuckin reactionaries are such plebs LOLLL" here, for the 75%-bourgeois, 25%-leftist functionaries hired by the institution to have some fun scapegoat-bashing to do while writing your study of the reactionary mentality from within cushy bourgeois academia), therefore, he became reactionary.

Even the vienna sausages occasionally slipped into doing this. Adorno's Authoritarian Personality is fucking embarrassing. Marcuse is an embarrassment. Habermas is a massive embarrassment and thoroughly bourgeois. But all that pales in comparison to what completely, utterly bourgeois New Left academics and poseur French young people are capable of, people who don't even feel the original bitterness toward reaction that made Adorno et al slip into occasional "fuck u reactionary have sex incel" mode, because reaction is not even a real foe anymore, it's just an excuse for some good ol' bourgeois crypto-puritan Bashing Of The Other (aka the two-minutes hate). Once office managers who took a single class on Marx in college start doing it, it's all over.

[Anonymous No.17102124]

>>17101754
>"postmodern neomarxism" / "woke culture
You should look into the CIA connection to the "new left" for the genesis of wokeness

[Anonymous No.17102156]

>>17102119
>reactionaries
We've been Reacting to Fascism for ~70 years now...

[Anonymous No.17102168]

When does critique begin to construct?

[Anonymous No.17102211]

Adorno is diametrically opposed to the sameness of mass culture. If you are right wing even you wil probably think that the "culture industry" essay is highly based. Woke culture is the most developed state of Liberalism thus far- the ideology that "Conservatives" are defending a previous iteration of.

[Anonymous No.17102218]

>>17102124
Any good books on that?

[Anonymous No.17102232]

>>17102168
don't construct, that's fascism!

[Anonymous No.17102242]

>>17102124
Based cianiggers dabbing on the "smart" side

[Anonymous No.17102264]

>>17102211
>If you are right wing even you wil probably think that the "culture industry" essay is highly based
You're not wrong. Adorno uses the horrors of totalitarianism to justify totalitarian ideas of his own. His writings would appeal to many based /pol/tards if they didn't instantly decry all Jews as evil on reflex.

[Anonymous No.17102280]

>all these posters saying the New Left is completely unrelated to frankfurt school despite Marcuse literally founding it
I wonder who is raiding us this: the glowies, bunkerchan, or the JIDF

[Anonymous No.17102285]

>>17102156
that's not what reactionary means you fucking retard

[Anonymous No.17102290]

>>17102119

[Anonymous No.17102293]

>>17102280
Take your meds

[Anonymous No.17102298]

>>17102280
it's really tiring to share a universe with people obsessed with exerting control over others thoughts "for their own good", even if they have to manufacture the consent in the most crude, deceitful manner possible.

[Anonymous No.17102314]

>>17101754
You know how Marx saw economics as a war of rich vs poor, oppressor vs oppressed? Cultural Marxism takes that idea and applies it to every facet of life. Gender relations are all men vs women, race relations are all about non-whites vs whites, age relations are all about old vs young. Every facet of life is about someone oppressing someone else. That's cultural marxism. It's looking at the whole culture, not just the economy, through a marxist lens.

[Anonymous No.17102333]

>>17102314
youre fucking retarded

[Anonymous No.17102345]

>>17102285
What do you mean? We live in a backward-looking society dominated by the fear of fascism and a desire to relive the heroics of ~1968. How is this any different to a conservative looking back towards the past as a better time?

[Anonymous No.17102348]

>>17102314
>You know how Marx saw economics as a war of rich vs poor, oppressor vs oppressed?
No

[Anonymous No.17102378]

>>17102348
okay, okay, let's try this again. a life-and-death-struggle between 'objective historical forces' represented by the working class and the bourgeoisie, where the necessary dialectical outcome must be the complete dissolution of the current economic-political order and the formation of a classless society

[Anonymous No.17102400]

>intellectual doesn't have:

>muscular physique
>beard
>20/20 vision

>instead has:

>glasses
>completely bald
>obese

we have gone backwards

[Anonymous No.17102403]

>>17102400
lazy bait

[Anonymous No.17102422]

>>17102403
>facts are bait

[Anonymous No.17102423]

>>17101754
OP, let me explain it.
You will see dishonest commies saying that: trannies and wokeness have nothing to with what Frankfurt School advocated for. As in ground level policy wise. Sure Adorno never actually wrote that trannies should be in girls locker room. Maybe it even would have disgusted him. This is true.
But it is dishonest because Frankfurt School was responsible for a large portion of the methods and philosophical/argumentational/political tools that later permeated and diffused through all branches of humanities and gave people with anti-White pretensions the upper hand. They made that line of thinking fashionable and viable. There's also a lot of unwritten doctrines and general attitudes that Frankfurt School gave to humanities academia.

A man who supplies the gun for a murder is also responsible for the murder, although he didn't pull the trigger personally.

[Anonymous No.17102434]

>>17102422
it couldn't be more obvious that you're just trying to reset the thread since you got nowhere left to go in the preceding replychains, honey.
well, it's still technically possible that you're just a legit retard, but I'd genuinely be surprised.

[Anonymous No.17102437]

>>17101782
source for the bloch anecdote?

[Anonymous No.17102456]

>>17102333

[Anonymous No.17102469]

>>17102434
>it couldn't be more obvious that you're just trying to reset the thread since you got nowhere left to go in the preceding replychains, honey.
lol
i just saw OPs picture on the catalog, clicked on the thread, scrolled all the way down without reading any post in the thread and made my post

[Anonymous No.17102486]

>>17102469
kek, fair enough. though with that attitude you'd probably get more out of standard social media

[Anonymous No.17102505]

>>17102486
4chan is not a social media you retard GO BACK GO BACK.

[Anonymous No.17102524]

>>17102486
>>17102505
frens!!!

[Anonymous No.17102572]

>>17102119
Go to bed Sloterdijk. This "there are no reactionaries any more, left liberalism has won" is only vaguely possible if your frame of reference is limited to some college town in California, Sweden, or Germany. For the rest of humanity it's pretty obvious that right populism is increasingly ascendant as neoliberalism repeatedly lobotomizes itself.

Also, have you read any Frankfurt School beyond Authoritarian Personality and maybe some Marcuse? Aesthetic Theory and Negative Dialectics are infinitely more subtle than just a "fascism is a pathology" argument. Minima Moralia is a masterpiece as well, up there with the great German Romantic aphorists.

And not to mention the importance of Benjamin, who shaped the course of nonfiction more than any other writer in the 20th century.

All this is not to say that we "should" be hopeful about the Left. But the importance of reading theory is just as, if not more important now than it was post-war. Zizek (for all his faults) pretty much nailed the meme soundbyte formula when he said "don't act, just think."

[Anonymous No.17102600]

who cares, they have excellent critiques of consumerist society.Take their critiques, you aren't legally bound to take their solutions as well. I'm far from a leftist and I think adorno & co. are almost required reading for understanding the world

[Anonymous No.17102612]

>>17102600
>y-you don't have to be a leftist, but if you don't read our books you'll stay ignorant . . .
weak

[Anonymous No.17102641]

>>17102066
The Summer of George?

[Anonymous No.17102646]

>>17102612
That anon is correct
>t. admires Schopenhauer and Spengler

[Anonymous No.17102662]

>>17102646
it should be obvious to you that he's just appealing to the pride of pseuds to get them to think of Adorno as "a thinker one simply must have read as a man of culture", so they'll keep infecting other people with the meme.

[Anonymous No.17102712]

>>17102437