/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.17207528]

Does his suicide refute him? How can a life-affirming Nietzschean kill himself? Why didn't he just enjoy his pain?

[Anonymous No.17207620]

>>17207528
Spinoza refuted him in the Ethics when he tells us that Suicide is the sign of a lower nature.

[Anonymous No.17207629]

>>17207528
being hypocrite doesnt make someone wrong

[Anonymous No.17207817]

why are all vitalists sickly losers

[Anonymous No.17207822]

>>17207629
This. Rousseau too had really good points despite being a huge faggot himself.

[Anonymous No.17207940]

>>17207528
>Why didn't he just enjoy his pain?
I'm not really sure that constant suffocation can be enjoyable. Masochist asphyxiation is a specific thing, it doesn't mean getting hard from having asthma.

Besides, vitalism means that you can't ever get rid of life, killing yourself just accelerates Becoming so to speak. We don't even know that Deleuze wanted to kill himself, it could've just been an accident brought on by the fact that people with breathing difficulties tend to lean out their windows in exaggerated manners in order to feel like they're breathing properly. Not sure why, but it seems to work for my asthma as well. Maybe it's more to do with the position of the torso or it's just a placebo. In any case, you can't always "invent new means for life", sometimes you're just fucked and constant suffocation could drive anyone to kill themselves.

>>17207817
They're the ones who need it the most, it's a coping mechanism if nothing else.

[Anonymous No.17208007]

>>17207528
He was actually eternal-recurrence-pilled and killed himself before his respiratory issues got even worse, because he knew he would have to go through that again.

[Anonymous No.17208159]

hes pretty clear that a long life means nothing in itself, its all about how intensely you live your life, how far you have actualised your latent power. a 20 year life lived well is worth infinitely more than long life lived passively... spinoza does indeed say suicide is a sign of weakness but he also says there are infinite forces in nature that are more powerful than you.. accepting that at some point there might be forces too powerful for you is necessary.. reminds me of the sutta about the monk that had problems with back pain or something along those lines and even after reaching arahantship they persisted, so the buddha allowed him to suicide.. but only after doing everything he could to overcome it

[Anonymous No.17208176]

>>17207940
>>Why didn't he just enjoy his pain?
>I'm not really sure that constant suffocation can be enjoyable.
A simple question is whether you'd prefer hell to non-existence. I used to think consciousness would be preferable under any condition. Since then I've experienced things caused by a mental illness that were almost unbearable. People who think they are totally above suicide are naive. You could have someone begging for death in a relatively short amount of time with simple torture. The redpillers are just chest-pounding puppies whose big trial in life was overcoming their own videogaming and obesity.

[Anonymous No.17208247]

>>17207528
He probably put his head out the window because he was gasping for air and fell outside by accident.

[Anonymous No.17208268]

>>17208176
>I used to think consciousness would be preferable under any condition.
There's also the Epicurus thing. If there's no longer a "you" left after you're dead to worry about being dead then it's not really a problem. Of course history is a thing so technically at least death is not the same thing as never having been born, but it's debatable to what extent this distinction matters.

[Anonymous No.17208270]

Nietzsche didnt dislike suiciede, he thought it was better to end it if the "life" one is living is just crappy instead of living like some sort of parasite of medicine

[Anonymous No.17208313]

>>17208268
It's a good argument. I have yet to find a solid argument for meaning, I think the nihilists are correct. At the very least, humanity and human history seem unlikely to survive. So it will be like I never lived in the end. All our efforts will amount to nothing.

[Anonymous No.17208339]

>>17208313
there's no thelos

[Anonymous No.17209684]

>>17207940
> Not sure why, but it seems to work for my asthma as well.
>Special Report: Local man kills self, allegedly inspired by 20th century French philosopher

[Anonymous No.17209722]

>>17208176
>The so-called ‘psychotically depressed’ person who tries to kill herself doesn’t do so out of quote ‘hopelessness’ or any abstract conviction that life’s assets and debits do not square. And surely not because death seems suddenly appealing. The person in whom Its invisible agony reaches a certain unendurable level will kill herself the same way a trapped person will eventually jump from the window of a burning high-rise. Make no mistake about people who leap from burning windows. Their terror of falling from a great height is still just as great as it would be for you or me standing speculatively at the same window just checking out the view; i.e. the fear of falling remains a constant. The variable here is the other terror, the fire’s flames: when the flames get close enough, falling to death becomes the slightly less terrible of two terrors. It’s not desiring the fall; it’s terror of the flames. And yet nobody down on the sidewalk, looking up and yelling ‘Don’t!’ and ‘Hang on!’, can understand the jump. Not really. You’d have to have personally been trapped and felt flames to really understand a terror way beyond falling.

[Anonymous No.17210742]

>>17208339
you mean telos?

>>17209722
I've been avoiding him but that's pretty spot-on. Is he actually good?

[Anonymous No.17210931]

>>17208247
this

[Anonymous No.17211203]

>>17210742
he's unironically Great

[Anonymous No.17212429]

Where to start with Deleuze

[Anonymous No.17212935]

>>17207620
I refuted you when I fu led your mom

[Anonymous No.17213313]

>>17207528
who is this nameless faggot?

[Anonymous No.17213381]

>>17212429
with his books

[Anonymous No.17213824]

>>17213313
gilles deleuze

[Anonymous No.17214091]

Because suicide isn't necessarily an admission that life isnt worth living.

[Anonymous No.17214146]

>>17207528
1 Maybe he fell out of the window trying to breathe - many people with his longue condition falls out of windows not being able to breath.

2 Nietzsche stated that suicide was a way out always available, Deleuze could have lived life fully when he lived and when he died, suicide is another way to take ownership of your life, you can in one way say yes to life even when killing yourself.

[Anonymous No.17214736]

>>17207822
Rousseau never made a good point in his entire life.

[Anonymous No.17214751]

>>17214736
Oh yeah that's why he was such a huge influence on Kant, Hegel and Schopenhauer.

[Anonymous No.17214827]

>>17213824
>named like a shaving cream
not gonna bother but thanks

[Anonymous No.17214835]

>>17207528
I think any philosophers that commited suicide, should have their works discarded and publicly humiliated

[Anonymous No.17214848]

>>17213824
dilles legeuze

[Anonymous No.17215088]

>>17214827
Read his chad brother Gillette Deluxe instead

[Anonymous No.17215116]

>>17207528
literally couldn't speak or right so his suicide was justified.

[Anonymous No.17215125]

>>17210742
He's kind off an expert on successfully killing oneself

[Anonymous No.17215496]

>>17212429
Start with his books on Spinoza and Bergson. After that I'd go with his book on Kant as well as the lecture series he gave on Kant's doctrine of the faculties. Nietzsche and Philosophy can bridge you into his theoretical work (DnR and Logic of Sense) before you tackle the collabs with Guattari. Also make sure you are reading smaller essays and lectures by him in between.

[Anonymous No.17215507]

>>17208176
this man understands.

[Anonymous No.17215538]

>>17208176
You are cringe my man. Jesus is there in all days of your life. Repent

[Anonymous No.17215547]

>>17215538
shut up you fucking goober

[Anonymous No.17215551]

>>17215538
you don't believe in him because he is worthy of worship. you believe in him because this so called faith calms your bitch of a heart. REPENT

[Anonymous No.17215569]

>>17215547
Κύριε Ελεισον

>>17215551
What are you even talking about, I believe in him because i have accepted him as my lord and saviour and i give my heart to him. With prayer,fasting and confession i'm stronger than ever.
>REPENT
trying hard

[Anonymous No.17215585]

>>17207528>>17212429

why do care about the french bourgeoisie has to say

[Anonymous No.17215586]

>>17215569
you are a selfish man only concerned with self-benefiting things. don't even delude yourself by thinking that you worship him because his is worthy of worship. you need salvation, you need heaven, you need immortality.
It would be better for the people to rather die as a disbeliever than a self centred hypocrite.

[Anonymous No.17215614]

>>17215586
Prayer, fasting, vigil and all other Christian practices, however good they may be in themselves, do not constitute the aim of our Christian life, although they serve as the indispensable means of reaching this end. The true aim of our Christian life consists in the acquisition of the Holy Spirit.

>you are a selfish man
Yes because i said about those practice someone can label me as selfish man, but just to let you know i never go out in real life and talk about Jesus or that i'm fasting because they can smell a sense of superiority and look down on me. in fact the only thing you can give to the people next to you is love, is a hard path to follow and sometimes i fall off.

>you need salvation, you need heaven, you need immortality.
pic rel.

[Anonymous No.17215626]

>>17215614
Nah bro I would rather worship him for what he is. But my sense of self never allows this. I have no interest in becoming a selfish hypocrite.
If hell is the consequence of it then so be it.

[Anonymous No.17215667]

>>17215626
>I have no interest in becoming a selfish hypocrite.
then don't become one!

[Anonymous No.17215676]

>>17215667
you can't escape your selfish being until your death.

[Anonymous No.17215692]

Didn't he have some kind of chronic pain?

[Anonymous No.17215891]

>>17215676
‘Come to help me, O God; Lord, hurry to my rescue!’ (Psalm 69:2). It carries within it all the feelings of which human nature is capable

[Anonymous No.17216063]

>>17215891
I'm always confused by how Christcucks on here find the most boring simplistic quotes to appear profound. Reminds me of the one that basically says "what if everyone who disagrees is a big dumb childish poopoo head and I'm the adult around here now?", literally "please please please don't call me a fedora" the quote.

Anyway, it's very cringey to constantly recommend Jesus as if nobody's ever heard of him or as if you're just recommending a Yoga instructor to a wine mom.

[Anonymous No.17217020]

>>17214146
I like your second point. You put it poignantly as well.

[Anonymous No.17217074]

>>17214751
Being an influence doesn't mean being a good one. Being an influence also doesn't mean you are in agreement.

[Anonymous No.17217136]

>>17207528
Didn't Schopenhauer say you should judge someone's ideas on their own merit, rather than through their character and who they were?

[Anonymous No.17217612]

>>17217074
yeah man like Schopenhauer opening his magnum opus with a Rousseau quote doesn't mean anything.

[Anonymous No.17217677]

One could say he was....Deleuzional

[Anonymous No.17219345]

>>17217677
Gottem

[Anonymous No.17219652]

>>17214827
it's not like you have the brain capacity to understand based Deleuze

[Anonymous No.17219728]

>>17207528
Nietzsche was pro-suicide you pseud

[Anonymous No.17219735]

>>17207629
true, it doesn't invalidate, but it's a bad sign when someone can't follow their own philosophy.

[Anonymous No.17219884]

>>17215569
retard alert

[Anonymous No.17220023]

>>17219652
fuck off justin

[Anonymous No.17220098]

>>17207528
>Why didn't he just enjoy his pain?
Maybe he couldn't. Neetch's ideal is accessible to everyone, if anyone, but it is aspirational.

It's not unreasonable that a great person in agony would pick death over life at any given time, though that same person would surelly be greater still it it's love for life was great enough to endure that agony.

[Anonymous No.17220155]

Humans have an inborn instinct to preserve their own lives. Suicidality like what Spinoza had been afflicted with is a sign that some critical component of the brain has faltered. He was fighting hard against a sickness that eventually took his life.

[Anonymous No.17220194]

>>17208007

eternal recurrence isn’t a bill murray movie, dude.

[Anonymous No.17220206]

>>17208268

So many midwit retards itt!

[Anonymous No.17220211]

>>17216063

>Christcucks

Get back to your foreskin reinstatement, subhuman.

[Anonymous No.17221739]

If the only actual argument that keeps being brought up against philosophical pessimism and antinatalism is "so why don't you kill yourself lol" does that mean that Mainlander ended philosophy?

[Anonymous No.17221740]

>>17217136
He was probably trying to save face

[Anonymous No.17221747]

>>17220194
Cope

[Anonymous No.17221769]

>>17207528
Nietzsche said 'die at the right time', and Deleuze willingly took his life when his condition was such that he could no longer accomplish his work.

Life and death are not opposites, and there is a suicide of strength as there is a suicide of weakness

[Anonymous No.17221975]

>>17221769
elaborating on 'life and death are not opposites';

Life and death are closely tied up with one another in two respects. First, the process of living is composed of an infinite series of deaths in miniature as the relations that form your essence are never truly stable (though they form metastable structures which can account for great persistence of features), as they are part of the world's fundamental flux. The experience of living is literally the experience of continuously dying. The privilege of the dead--to die no more!

Secondly, all life is predicated on confrontation with and harm to other life. Bataille describes this through the notion of 'pressure'. Life as a self-replicating process exerts pressure in all directions, which forces both a quantitative expansion and a qualitative heightening of complexity. You can take this idea to its metaphysical extremes by disregarding Bataille's restriction to 'life' and considering a more purely Nietzschean panpsychist interpretation of the WtP

Death is the consummation of life.

"I commend to you my sort of death, voluntary death that comes to me because I wish it.

And when shall I wish it? He who has a goal and an heir wants death at the time most favorable to his goal and his heir.

And out of reverence for his goal and his heir he will hang up no more withered wreaths in the sanctuary of life."

"What has become perfect, everything ripe- wants to die!"

"Blessed, blessed be the vintner's knife!"