/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.17244680]

Will there ever be artistic movements again? Or has the internet and mass media changed the game so much that we can't have dedicated groups of people working toward the same intellectual and artistic goals as one another? Are we just stuck in a swirling soup of post-(post)-modernism until we die?
I apologize in advance if this is a super retarded thread and there are many blossoming creative movements I am just unaware of. I am an American, so perhaps it is different in other countries.
Basically just what do you think the effect of the internet and globalization on artists as members of groups is?

[Anonymous No.17244687]

I'd like to know aswell if someone is knowledgeable on the subject.

[Anonymous No.17244691]

>>17244680
No. Art is dead.

[Anonymous No.17244695]

>>17244680
All art is post-colonial

[Anonymous No.17244701]

>>17244680
Maybe, but I guess the internet shortened 'space and time' to a point that things turning into a soup is something inevitable. But that is kinda cool, anon. Art is definitely richer now. Imagine being stuck in time during an artistic movement that you fucking hate.

[Anonymous No.17244708]

>>17244680
There’s some good new art being made by young artists in NYC and elsewhere (but mostly NYC).

[Anonymous No.17244713]

>>17244708
Could you show some examples?

[Anonymous No.17244720]

>>17244680
The current zeitgeist is rap and the struggles of BIPOC. Sorry white chuds, it's no longer your place in the spotlight.

[Anonymous No.17244723]

>>17244708
t. nyer trying to convince himself that wasting all that rent money is worthwhile

[Anonymous No.17244734]

>>17244701
>But that is kinda cool, anon.
It just makes everything so homogenized. There are no longer (as far as I can tell in USA) artistic movements and groups of people, there is just one mega-movement that everything is in. Rather than a rich mix of color I feel like everything is just grey sludge.
>Art is definitely richer now.
Could you expand on that? And my question was less about art and more about artists.
>Imagine being stuck in time during an artistic movement that you fucking hate.
Then you'd make a movement with other people who hate it and create a reaction to it (of course this is all assuming you are of the class necessary to even be involved in art at all), but odds are that someone else has already made a movement you could feel at home in. There was never a single movement at any time (at least not in the last 200 ish years), there were many groups of people doing different things at the same time and sometimes in the same place. I feel like the idea that there is just one massive monolith of "modern culture" that is impossible to rebel against is more true now than in the past. But I could be talking out of my ass.
>>17244708
Could you be more specific?
>>17244720
You're a funny guy.

[Anonymous No.17244738]

There are plenty of artistic movements right now (PC Music and its derivatives for example). If you mean will there ever be a strictly literary movement I'm sure there will be, but I'm not sure it will be in the form of novels. Postmodern authors like Pynchon and Delillo do a terrible job of writing on the internet and social media, but that might just be because they're boomers, and new sincerity guys like Tao Lin are boring as fuck, but that might just be because they're privileged post-ironic hipsters. I think new art movements are going to be more anonymous and decentralized due to the internet. Look at how memes have countless variations and often have no names attached to them.

[Anonymous No.17244745]

>>17244680
art is dead.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eo9pU1q8sy8

[Anonymous No.17244748]

>>17244738
>Look at how memes have countless variations and often have no names attached to them.
Memes are completely unironically the most relevant artform right now.

[Anonymous No.17244757]

>>17244748
are memes art

[Anonymous No.17244758]

>>17244748
That's something I've been thinking for a while, but I often feel silly saying it.

[Anonymous No.17244760]

>>17244734
> It just makes everything so homogenized. There are no longer (as far as I can tell in USA) artistic movements and groups of people, there is just one mega-movement that everything is in. Rather than a rich mix of color I feel like everything is just grey sludge.

What? No, you just have to be on the lookout for things.

> Could you expand on that? And my question was less about art and more about artists.

You can watch (insert random nationality) cinema on Netflix or torrent it. Get subtitles and whatever. People share their music in the cloud. It got to a point that some writers even stream reading their books.

> Then you'd make a movement with other people who hate it and create a reaction to it (of course this is all assuming you are of the class necessary to even be involved in art at all), but odds are that someone else has already made a movement you could feel at home in. There was never a single movement at any time (at least not in the last 200 ish years), there were many groups of people doing different things at the same time and sometimes in the same place. I feel like the idea that there is just one massive monolith of "modern culture" that is impossible to rebel against is more true now than in the past. But I could be talking out of my ass.

Don't get me wrong, I do feel like writing sometimes, but I don't want to become a writer. If I ended up the supply of decent stuff I would probably die of boredom.

[Anonymous No.17244761]

>>17244713
>>17244723
>>17244734
I don’t want to dox myself or my friends, but if you know, you know. The art scene is strong in the LES/Chinatown and Bushwick/East Williamsburg, even through covid. The smaller up and coming galleries are where it’s at. I’m seeing a lot of innovative use of sculpture, video, painting and installation. One thing that sets the new breed apart from the “anti-art” cynicism of the last few generations (conceptualists, “pictures generation,” post-internet artists) is a renewed focus on technique and materials. Even plebeian artlets should be able to appreciate intricate 6 foot tall cast-glass sculptures with biomorphic, posthuman aspects.

[Anonymous No.17244771]

>>17244761
you lost me right at the end, those people are making shitty art no doubt

[Anonymous No.17244773]

>>17244771
Cope

[Anonymous No.17244775]

>>17244761
Post an example please

[Anonymous No.17244776]

>>17244738
>(PC Music and its derivatives for example)
Yeah, but where's the reaction against that? Where are the people pushing against that? There's not, everyone is on board with this one thing being the thing of the future there's nothing to do about it if you fucking despise it. The media is so involved in every aspect of art now (and the media is so different now than it was 50+ years ago) that if you don't like what the media has its fingers in you will never be able to push back against it. The internet era requires amplification if you want to find like-minded people, and the only way to receive amplification is to sell your soul to some online publication so they can shill your terrible music in exchange for ads. The only way that a publication would do that for you though is if you can already guarantee people will read about you in large enough numbers that advertisers will pay the publication. PC Music type shit is so manufactured it's on the level of a washing machine or a fridge.
>>17244760
>No, you just have to be on the lookout for things.
Tell me something exciting happening now.
>You can watch (insert random nationality) cinema on Netflix or torrent it.
You can, but it's so similar you can pretty accurately guess what it will be like before you watch it. I'm really not trying to brag or be a dick, but I don't know how a sensitive or intellectual person could find value in almost anything on Netflix.
>>17244761
>but if you know, you know.
I don't which is why I'm asking you.

[Anonymous No.17244779]

>>17244771
>NOOOO IT'S NOT LE BASED TRADPILLERINO ART ABOUT GOD!!!!!

[Anonymous No.17244784]

There currently ARE artistic movements. What do you think grimdark is?
>inb4 videogames aren't art but drugged out kikes shitting on canvas is

[Anonymous No.17244788]

>>17244776
>I'm really not trying to brag or be a dick, but I don't know how a sensitive or intellectual person could find value in almost anything on Netflix.
if you say this people will know you're a pseud. it is a cliche that intellectual people also have a lot of so-called guilty pleasures. being "sensitive or intellectual" does not bar you from liking shitty stuff. posturing faggots don't let themselves like trash to seem smart.

[Anonymous No.17244799]

>>17244779
that art is even worse, it usually isn't even art. but transhumanism shit is unbearably cringe.

[Anonymous No.17244803]

>>17244776
>There's not, everyone is on board with this one thing being the thing of the future there's nothing to do about it if you fucking despise it.
No, everyone is not. Music journalists are not """everyone""" and no one with a brain cares about them, PC Music isn't even that relevant it's one of the many things going in music. The most relevant music right now is rap.

[Anonymous No.17244817]

>>17244776
What? Why does a relatively new and underground art movement need an antithesis to be legitimate? Why do you believe everyone is praising the same art? We're at a point in history where art can be made and shared by anyone. And PC Music is definitely not mainstream.

[Anonymous No.17244823]

>>17244776
I don't bother looking for such things (I barely get out of my house), anon. But any city that isn't small has its art scene. I used to live in a big city and there were a lot of dance related things nearby.

I don't have Netflix, but you can still torrent or watch things online somewhere else. My point is that you don't really need a bunch of money to be able to live in fucking Paris or Weimar or whatever, study there, get to know people, to get to know what is happening. Things got way easier, anon.

[Anonymous No.17244831]

>>17244776
From the way you write I can tell you're inexperienced and coping by calling all art homogenized.

[Anonymous No.17244852]

>>17244784
That's not really a movement though in the way I would think of a movement.
>>17244788
>if you say this people will know you're a pseud.
Which is really annoying, because I'm just being honest.
>it is a cliche that intellectual people also have a lot of so-called guilty pleasures. being "sensitive or intellectual" does not bar you from liking shitty stuff.
It doesn't but it does to a degree bar you from finding very much value in it. It's not that it's shitty, it's that it's boring and empty. I know I sound like a pretentious ass, but I don't know how else to phrase this. It's just empty garbage, I'm sorry.
>>17244803
>>17244817
PC Music is as mainstream and relevant as something with its aesthetic could ever hope to be. I hooked on this specifically because it could actually be termed as a movement (there are shared themes and intentions between artists and the "scene" is fairly close knit). PC Music or hyperpop is an actual dedicated movement in a way that "rap" is not. Hyperpop has a conceptual piece underlying it which sort of separates it out from being a "genre". Same thing happened with the "vaporwave" thing before it actually got termed as vaporwave. Those are movements, rap is a genre.
My point is that even if you can define PC Music as a movement, it is not comparable to the way that we think of historical artistic movements because of the way that information is spread now.
>>17244831
What do you want me to do?

[Anonymous No.17244861]

>>17244680
Are you kidding? Just look a movies and video games and architecture and vehicles. The key is to be a part of what culture is really doing. Not wallow in 19th century atavistic fantasy.

[Anonymous No.17244862]

>>17244784
Videogames aren't art.

[Anonymous No.17244884]

>>17244803
>>17244817
And also, on the subject of hyperpop, it is still playing in the same field as (post)-post-modernism. Whether you think they are being ironic with their shitty music or they are a form of new sincerity, they are still playing into the whole "irony/sincerity" dichotomy which has been pretty dominant for years. This is personal opinion, but I am bored of the entire dichotomy. It's like everything needs to consciously signal where it sits on the line between ironic and sincere and I'm just sick of it in general. I'm not tired of irony or tired of sincerity I'm just tired of everything (within the realm of """serious art""") being about this dichotomy.
>>17244861
What am I supposed to be seeing here? I am not knowledgeable about architecture at all so I won't speak on that, but what artistic movements do you see in movies and video games and vehicles?

[Anonymous No.17244898]

>>17244884
>>17244852
>>17244776
cringe

[Anonymous No.17244908]

>>17244884
>I am bored of people making art I don't like
Make some yourself then?

[Anonymous No.17244920]

>>17244862
Pop your bubble of denial, Padawan. Art is all around you. Art is the human creation. Read the Greeks ffs and then look around you.

[Anonymous No.17244923]

>>17244920
Again, videogames, much like popular music, and Marvel movies, aren't art. They're products.

[Anonymous No.17244925]

>>17244761
>biomorphic, posthuman aspects.
Sound gay

[Anonymous No.17244931]

>>17244680
Who's this love glove?

[Anonymous No.17244933]

>>17244898
Sorry.
>>17244908
I'd like to but I have no real idea what I'd do. I'd like to meet some like-minded people and talk to them about this and maybe work something out, but only place I can go to discuss this stuff is here, and it doesn't look like many people agree with my opinions. I really just want something to follow, I'm not a leader sort of person, but that's a me problem.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTUsFm0BAu8
>>17244923
Who draws the distinction? What metric do you use to judge what is and isn't art? Everything is product now, I think your way of seeing things is outdated.
>>17244931
It's Molly Ringwald.

[Anonymous No.17244952]

>>17244852
>My point is that even if you can define PC Music as a movement, it is not comparable to the way that we think of historical artistic movements because of the way that information is spread now.
That's just the way information and art is going to be spread for the foreseeable future. Culture moves with technology. There also weren't any art movements like what you're looking for in Ancient Greece, but that doesn't legitimize their contributions to the canon.
>What do you want me to do?
Do more research before making pessimistic claims on the state of art.
>>17244884
My enjoyment of PC Music is entirely sincere, and I can say the same for other fans I know. I think you should try to look at what they're doing and take it seriously.

To improve your enjoyment of modern art you can try an experiment like >>17244720 suggests. Take a modern work of art you find silly and an older work of art you have a serious appreciation for and view/listen to them at the same time. Find comparisons in them and try to convince yourself that it makes sense that these two works of art should go together. A lot of our appreciation for art has to do with the context we experience it in.

[Anonymous No.17244953]

>>17244884
Seems like y’all are really asking what the next paradigm shift will be.

You can’t figure that out by analyzing history.

An artist adopts his immediate world and fosters it.

Here are some artistic domains that need a paradigm shift:

Religion (need a new value system)
Living (how to be happy in the tech world)
Plastic and metal sculpture (3D printing)
Video games (we know VR is the goal)

[Anonymous No.17244957]

>>17244923
Art is a product, peabrain. Learn your language.

[Anonymous No.17244961]

>>17244923
What about a game like Yume Nikki?

[Anonymous No.17244964]

>>17244952
*delegitimize

[Anonymous No.17244977]

>>17244923
So obviously generalized and wrong that nobody should even argue against it

[Anonymous No.17244982]

>>17244923
Sorry I should stop belittling you.
Your opinion is a huge problem in the art world. Essentially, what you really believe is that only a certain subset of art is true art. Maybe your definition of real art is something transcendental. It doesn’t really matter, but the fact is it’s elitist and selective. Which isn’t right or wrong ethically, it’s simply false. Art is by definition any human product. I get what you’re trying to say. Only high art is art. And high art is only accessible to a certain subset of people with particular backgrounds and mental makeups. This is like saying that only a certain race of people are real people. It’s false. Anyway, just don’t let your favourite thing become your barometer of reality.

[Anonymous No.17244984]

>>17244952
>That's just the way information and art is going to be spread for the foreseeable future.
Which is why I asked if the sort of movements seen the 18th/20th centuries (or something comparable to them) are possible now that the tech has so drastically changed.
>There also weren't any art movements like what you're looking for in Ancient Greece, but that doesn't legitimize their contributions to the canon.
I'm not saying you have to have this sort of movement to make good art, I'm just asking if it is something that could happen today at all.
>Do more research before making pessimistic claims on the state of art.
It's not pessimistic. I personally don't find a lot of value in the art I see being made now but that's just my opinion. I'm just asking if a certain mode of creativity is possible now. I think I probably should have clarified my definition of "movement" in OP.
>My enjoyment of PC Music is entirely sincere, and I can say the same for other fans I know.
I wasn't talking about the fans I was talking about the creators. Even if you take it sincerely, you do still agree that is consciously reacting to ideas about irony and sincerity. Do you see what I'm saying?
>>17244953
I'm not asking that, no.

[Anonymous No.17244997]

>>17244977
Yes but it’s our job to shepherd these kind of people toward the truth.

[Anonymous No.17244999]

>>17244933
>>17244957
>>17244961
>>17244977
>>17244982
>t. zoomers brainwashed by capitalism
Imagine thinking The Beatles or some nigger garbage rap song is comparable to even the most mediocre romantic composer, that Harry Potter is comparable to The Illiad, or that Avengers 28492848: The Return of The Niggerfaggots is comparable to Citizen Kane. If you can't tell the difference is too late for you.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.17245002]

>>17244680
After capitalism there might.

[Anonymous No.17245014]

>>17244999
Please stop derailing my thread. It's up to you if you find value in things made with hyper-commercial intentions but it's not the topic I'm discussing here.
>>17245002
You can fuck off, thanks.

[Anonymous No.17245018]

>>17244999
Oh and I forgot vidya, which at it's absolute best is poor film and literature.

[Anonymous No.17245024]

>>17244984
I can comment that I believe art has always been cutting edge in terms of materials and cultural zeitgeist. The best artists I have ever known or heard of have always been somewhat shallow and even unintelligent, but always inspired by their social world and its direction. We will never see some movement like what came in the past because then it wouldn’t be a movement. The concept implies novelty. That’s the beauty in it. It’s really impossible to predict. You just have to be a part of it.

[Anonymous No.17245030]

>>17244999
citizen kane was made in the studio system. it's just as much populist, capitalist shlock as the rest of the crap you're railing against. at least be internally consistent with your boomerism.

[Anonymous No.17245037]

>>17244852
you like empty garbage too. you probably play video games or some shit. something that is not artistic and is just fucking empty. no one is intellectually "on" all the time. not even wittgenstein, for instance, wittgenstein loved going to the movies to watch westerns. you're posturing and everyone knows it man

[Anonymous No.17245040]

>>17244999
Comparable in what? Cultural value? Obviously it is. If not more so.

Comparable in its level of elitism? No.

[Anonymous No.17245051]

>>17245024
>I can comment that I believe art has always been cutting edge in terms of materials and cultural zeitgeist. The best artists I have ever known or heard of have always been somewhat shallow and even unintelligent, but always inspired by their social world and its direction. >We will never see some movement like what came in the past because then it wouldn’t be a movement.
I'm not talking about revivalism of old ideas I'm talking about the way in which those ideas were communicated.
>>17245037
Of course I watch terrible television shows as a way to fill time. My point isn't that no one should watch that it's that it's not really applicable to what I'm talking about. I'm not posturing at all.

[Anonymous No.17245053]

>>17245018
Sure it’s poor film and literature, but that’s like saying a lemon cake is a poor lemon or a pencil drawing is a poor sculpture. It’s a different medium. All of y’all have these polarized stone brains baka.

[Anonymous No.17245059]

DUDE, cmon, like MCU, Infinity War; us Monkey's Magnum Opus

[Anonymous No.17245060]

>>17244680
True art and artistic prowess are dying at an alarming rate.

Just look at modern art, for instance.

Music is another one that has been getting progressively worse.

[Anonymous No.17245066]

>>17244984
Serious art movements from now on are pretty much always going to be tied to the movement, but they're still art movements with artists working alongside each other with similar intentions.
>I wasn't talking about the fans I was talking about the creators. Even if you take it sincerely, you do still agree that is consciously reacting to ideas about irony and sincerity. Do you see what I'm saying?
I know what you mean, but I don't believe those are their actual intentions. It's an unfortunate association that comes with adopting "low art" (bubblegum dance, advertisements, plastic toys) and making something out of it in a completely serious way. People assume it's all a joke.

[Anonymous No.17245076]

>>17245051
Imagine walking into a room that disentangles your body’s molecules and then projects them through a river of neon synesthesia for 15 minutes before reassembling you. That’s the type of place art is going. If you’re afraid of that, you’re like Oedipus; blind, married to your mother (history)

[Anonymous No.17245077]

>>17245066
*tied to the internet
fuck

[Anonymous No.17245103]

>>17245076
Also, imagine being Raskolnikov and feeling and seeing a perfect immersive VR interpretation of Crime and Punishment. That’s where art is going.

[Anonymous No.17245118]

hyperpop like 100gecs is a pretty new and expanding musical movement.

[Anonymous No.17245120]

>>17244757

[Anonymous No.17245140]

>>17245118
100 gecs are too funny and based to ever be taken seriously though, and the rest of hyperpop is trash. I think OP is complaining there's no "serious" art movement like say Expressionism or something.

[Anonymous No.17245150]

>>17245066
But the internet is so commercially controlled I don't know if I feel very comfortable with this direction. Not that I hate art being made for money, I just don't like other people making someone else's creation into their own way to get money. Do you know what I mean? It's like everything is filtered through advertisement.
>>17245060
I'm really not interested in value judgements and art criticism ITT. I know I sort of brought it on myself by having the gall to criticize the quality of Netflix's programming, but for the purpose of this thread I am much more interested in the modes of communication than in what is actually being communicated.
>>17245066
But I feel as though the sort of conceptual underpinning of past art movements is much less common now. People don't seem to actively comment on the meaning of their own art in the way that they used to. Once again I'm not saying it's good or bad, I just think the amount of artists writing treatises on their own art is lower now. In past movements it was very much a planned and studied act of putting a specific meaning into their art.
>>17245076
>>17245103
Maybe that's where it's going but that's not where it is now, and where it is now is what I'm talking about. What you described sounds very exciting.
>>17245118
We've discussed it.
>>17245140
No, not really. Many, many people take gecs seriously.

[Anonymous No.17245155]

>>17244701
The coolest things I've found in the past 5 years have dissolved in record time. I think cultural turnover has accelerated to the point of total noise. Movements might be occurring at some meta level now, with the participants totally unaware of each other. The problem is that everyone will be ripped off in a blink of an eye when recognizable innovation does occur

[Anonymous No.17245160]

100 gecs is the nadir of culture. Shitty tranny amalgamation of every cringe myspace-tier suBcULTuRe from the last 20 years. When I see zoomies fawning over stuff like that, I feel only sadness for the future.

[Anonymous No.17245162]

>>17244720
This is genius.

[Anonymous No.17245175]

Reformatted to be less eye-bleeding.
>>17245066
But the internet is so commercially controlled I don't know if I feel very comfortable with this direction. Not that I hate art being made for money, I just don't like other people making someone else's creation into their own way to get money. Do you know what I mean? It's like everything is filtered through advertisement.
But I feel as though the sort of conceptual underpinning of past art movements is much less common now. People don't seem to actively comment on the meaning of their own art in the way that they used to. Once again I'm not saying it's good or bad, I just think the amount of artists writing treatises on their own art is lower now. In past movements it was very much a planned and studied act of putting a specific meaning into their art.
>>17245060
I'm really not interested in value judgements and art criticism ITT. I know I sort of brought it on myself by having the gall to criticize the quality of Netflix's programming, but for the purpose of this thread I am much more interested in the modes of communication than in what is actually being communicated.
>>17245103
Maybe that's where it's going but that's not where it is now, and where it is now is what I'm talking about. What you described sounds very exciting.
>>17245140
No, not really. Many, many people take gecs seriously.

[Anonymous No.17245193]

>>17245155
It is hard to catch what is the best of your own time, anon. Things are happening real time. Bach got really discovered a lot of time after his death. And he wasn't really innovating anything, but his stuff was undeniable good.

The main issue nowadays is that there is too much stuff. You can't possibly check everything. That what makes things hard. But it is not like you can't follow some random website that promotes artists.

[Anonymous No.17245196]

>>17244720
okay I just listened to Playboy Carti for the first time. How the fuck is this trash supposed to be similar to loveless?

[Anonymous No.17245198]

>>17245160
gecs are the ultimate pseud filter. It really, really triggers people that take themselves too seriously and think they're musical geniuses and unique for listening to prog or something.

[Anonymous No.17245209]

>>17245198
They are unlistenable. Whether ~iRoNiC~ or not. You are the one filtered, zoomer tranny scum.

[Anonymous No.17245218]

>>17245193
>But it is not like you can't follow some random website that promotes artists.
Examples of ones which you find interesting?
>>17245196
I think people key in on the way they both use very short melodic fragments that are repeated over an over. The layering of the fragments is the main compositional tool. I don't especially enjoy Die Lit but I think that's the rationale.
>>17245160
>>17245198
>>17245209
Could you guys cut it out.

[Anonymous No.17245230]

>>17244680
I mean Post Malone and Billie Eilish have both gotten huge in the age of the internet. If you want to experience art at its fullest your best bet is probably to move to LA or NY. I live in eastern Europe and trust me, you guys are doing a lot better than the cancer that is happening here. Europe in insanely divided. Nobody cares about anyone else's art/literature/whatever. The thing about the US and other english speaking countries is you guys all SPEAK THE SAME FUCKING LANGUAGE. This allows way more people to compete in the same game. If you make a band, it is going to have to compete with all english bands in the world. Same for books, movies etc. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that only 1 in 10 000 people is really creative/talented/awesome. In the US they can literally all move to Hollywood and compete against each other. In Europe there's literally no place for people to do that since all of them speak different languages and have massively different cultural backgrounds/tastes.

[Anonymous No.17245233]

>>17245218
>Examples of ones which you find interesting?
scaruffi (PBUH)

[Anonymous No.17245234]

>>17245175
I actually don't know what you mean. The internet has allowed people to make and share art on a large scale who never would have had the means pre-internet. It seems there's less money behind artists now. And do you think it's a bad thing that people aren't writing commentaries on their own work? I don't think it's important. It's more of a modernist (the movement) thing for the artist to also act as their own critic.

[Anonymous No.17245235]

>>17245218
I'm not crazy over new things, anon. It is not like I'm really fucking bored to the point of having to follow something like that. I used to post on fb groups about cinema and literature. But I don't have a fb account anymore.

[Anonymous No.17245269]

>>17245175
>People don't seem to actively comment on the meaning of their own art in the way that they used to.
this is interesting. i think modern artists think art should be or should appear as spontaneous. if you explain how and why you do your art until the last drops of meaning you probably sound like a phony, or you just broke the ilusion, you make it a rational game. which is contrary to the intention of making art in first place.
anyway in modern art there are plenty of totally serious people justifying their art and can be unbearable (and cringe) too. so i dont know, each coin has two sides.
maybe you just have to do your thing in this post post pre post modernist amalgam and see how it goes,

[Anonymous No.17245291]

>>17245230
>I mean Post Malone and Billie Eilish have both gotten huge in the age of the internet.
What's your point?
>>17245233
Ugh.
>>17245234
>The internet has allowed people to make and share art on a large scale who never would have had the means pre-internet.
It's allowed them to do that, but the sheer amount of shit posted to the internet necessarily requires some sort of arbiter to point audiences to it. And whether that arbiter is helping your art or someone else's is very dependent on money and connections. I'm not saying it's worse than past means, I just don't know if I can trust it.
>It seems there's less money behind artists now.
Depends, but overall I would agree. However, there is money in reporting on those artists. Journalists use the mere existence of someone else's art as a way to get money from advertisers. These journalists and the publications they work for have to constantly release new content to make any money, so they are always trying to find some sort of new thing to write about. This leads to the publications just using the artists as tools to fill articles. Just the fact that, for example, 100 gecs have released a new album will be used by a platform like Pitchfork to sell ad space over and over. And once the amplifier stops getting clicks from your art their going to abandon you, and you'll lose that amplification. I don't know what the alternative to this is, but it strikes me as very ugly.
>And do you think it's a bad thing that people aren't writing commentaries on their own work?
No, it's just a difference that I noted. I said I don't think it's good or bad.

[Anonymous No.17245336]

>>17244680
Michael Crichton railed against the internet in The Lost World surprisingly. He said nothing would happen after the internet as everything would become homogenized.

[Anonymous No.17245338]

>>17245291
The problem is you care too much about music journalism. It has a decade max of life left. No one needs critics anymore. I have no idea who still cares about Pitchfork anymore. People will end up using sites like RYM more which gives you the opinions of music fans instead of some faggot soiboy critic.

[Anonymous No.17245341]

>>17244784
Grimdark is an aesthetic, not an art movement. Same shit with steampunk.

[Anonymous No.17245344]

>>17245336
>"Nobody knows. Although personally, I think cyberspace means the end of our species.”

>“Yes? Why is that?”

>“Because it means the end of innovation,” Malcolm said. “This idea that the whole world is wired together is mass death. Every biologist knows that small groups in isolation evolve fastest. You put a thousand birds on an ocean island and they’ll evolve very fast. You put ten thousand on a big continent, and their evolution slows down. Now, for our own species, evolution occurs mostly through our behavior. We innovate new behavior to adapt. And everybody on earth knows that innovation only occurs in small groups. Put three people on a committee and they may get something done. Ten people, and it gets harder. Thirty people, and nothing happens. Thirty million, it becomes impossible. That’s the effect of mass media—it keeps anything from happening. Mass media swamps diversity. It makes every place the same. Bangkok or Tokyo or London: there’s a McDonald’s on one corner, a Benetton on another, a Gap across the street. Regional differences vanish. All differences vanish. In a mass-media world, there’s less of everything except the top ten books, records, movies, ideas. People worry about losing species diversity in the rain forest. But what about intellectual diversity—our most necessary resource? That’s disappearing faster than trees. But we haven’t figured that out, so now we’re planning to put five billion people together in cyberspace. And it’ll freeze the entire species. Everything will stop dead in its tracks. Everyone will think the same thing at the same time. Global uniformity. Oh, that hurts. Are you done?”

[Anonymous No.17245357]

>>17244761
>I’m seeing a lot of innovative use of sculpture, video, painting and installation.

But are you wearing your mask?

[Anonymous No.17245368]

>>17245338
and then the RYM opinions become the music critics.

[Anonymous No.17245369]

>>17245338
>The problem is you care too much about music journalism.
I don't, but it's not just music.
> It has a decade max of life left. No one needs critics anymore
In a perfect world yes, but they need their jobs still so they are going to try to hold on by their fingernails as long as possible, and they have the big money on their side. Record labels want to keep sites like Pitchfork around because they're just PR for their artists.
>People will end up using sites like RYM more which gives you the opinions of music fans instead of some faggot soiboy critic.
If RYM or similar sites do become a majorly viable source of info about new music, it will just be a matter of time until the most popular RYM reviewers are approached by corporations looking to use their influence for advertisement. You can't escape it for very long.

[Anonymous No.17245375]

>>17245269
MODS

[Anonymous No.17245381]

>>17244680
Threads like this always end up boiling down to: you need to live in an upper class metropolitan area in order to participate in burgeoning art movements.

And it's not just living there, you have to know the right people, be accepted in their social group (they're usually children of wealthy people).

[Anonymous No.17245388]

>>17245381
In other words, you have to be a bourgeois academic LARPing as a Bohemian and sniffing your farts and engaging in circlejerk with your other snobbish hipster friends.
No thank you.

[Anonymous No.17245394]

>>17245291
I mainly find new stuff based on what my friends enjoy and what the artists I already like enjoy. I don't know anyone who gives a shit about Pitchfork or even Anthony Fantano.

[Anonymous No.17245397]

>>17245369
You seem to think most people care about reviews and ratings when it's usually more like >>17245394

[Anonymous No.17245410]

>>17245394
I fail to see what your post has to do with what I said. Not everyone is dedicated enough to music to spend time scouring for music they haven't heard before. Most people just want someone to tell them "this is good, listen to this" which is why critics will never go away.
>>17245397
See above.
>>17245381
>in burgeoning art movements
Like what? This is the whole thing, give an example of an art movement happening in NY right now.

[Anonymous No.17245424]

>>17245388
>In other words, you have to be a bourgeois academic LARPing as a Bohemian and sniffing your farts and engaging in circlejerk with your other snobbish hipster friends.
So in other words, /lit/ but IRL?

[Anonymous No.17245425]

>>17245394
you are not the world.

[Anonymous No.17245435]

>>17245388
Art needs to be visible to be enjoyed but it's up to you whether or not your environment influences your art (in an unproductive way anyway)

[Anonymous No.17245438]

>>17245410
Most people use their social circle and similar artists for that. Not critics.

[Anonymous No.17245443]

>>17245425
The world doesn't read Pitchfork

[Anonymous No.17245445]

>>17245076
Sounds fucking retarded

[Anonymous No.17245452]

>>17245438
>Most people use their social circle and similar artists for that.
No, most people use Spotify playlists for that. Spotify playlists which are curated by people who listen to critics.
>>17245443
It's not just Pitchfork you fucking retard.

[Anonymous No.17245463]

>>17245381
I am >>17244761
I moved to NYC from a shitty rust belt town. I literally lived in a closet in an apartment in a shitty Brooklyn neighborhood with 3 roommates for years. In the meantime I saw as many art shows as I could, worked to support myself, and busted ass in the studio. I got into a fully funded MFA program and now I am a well respected artist (again, not going to dox myself). Yes there are a lot of spoiled rich kids in the scene, but there are an equal number (and certainly more talented) artists from working class backgrounds, all my close friends are.

Basically, if you love art and you want to make it your life, you chase that dream wherever it takes you. For me it was NYC and I'm so glad I did. Art–– high art, "fine" art–– is not a democratic, populist pursuit and never has been. It is about taste, history, innovation, vision, and yes, ego. It isn't meant to be accessible to the McDonald's scarfing masses. If you don't like that, too bad... there are plenty of video games and netflix shows for you to rot your mind with.

[Anonymous No.17245470]

>>17245435
>it's up to you whether or not your environment influences your art (in an unproductive way anyway)
Obviously it does, but free will exists and there's always rebels who don't conform to their environment.
>Art needs to be visible to be enjoyed
Except that the culture that has developed around the art world in NYC is incredibly elitist. The art that is shown there is pretty much for the eyes of cosmopolitan coastal elites only. They can suck my big fat castizo South American dick for all I care.

[Anonymous No.17245481]

>>17245438
It doesn't matter what most people do. It just needs enough to sustain an advertising model. Online viewership metrics are so skewed that you can easily turn a tiny tiny reader base into enough clicks to make money on. You and your friend keep missing the point. I don't think people care about critics.

[Anonymous No.17245484]

>>17245470
>They can suck my big fat castizo South American dick for all I care.
basado

[Anonymous No.17245490]

>>17245463
lol at this entire post

[Anonymous No.17245494]

>>17245375
Di...did...did someone call for me?
I...I'm so tired...not...enough strength...to...clean...board.
I haven't ...had a ... Hot Pocket in ... over ... two minutes.

[Anonymous No.17245496]

>>17245381
I think venture capitalists are right when they say "if you aren't committed enough to your business to move to SF to raise capital, we're not interested in investing in you". If you're an artist, but aren't committed enough to move to a culture center, why should anyone invest in you by promoting you or giving you shows?

[Anonymous No.17245500]

>>17245463
>shitty Brooklyn neighborhood
it's not 1979 any more dude, no one's buying this.

[Anonymous No.17245503]

>>17245500
You've clearly never been to NYC

[Anonymous No.17245509]

>>17245503
no you've clearly never been to nyc, brooklyn is so gentrified now.

[Anonymous No.17245511]

>>17245500
he said shitty brooklyn neighborhood, not set from a deathwish movie. brooklyn is huge, and still plenty of shit places to live next to giant housing projects and/or a noisy as piss industrial shit

[Anonymous No.17245516]

>>17245511
yeah, and they're still expensive. anon and his buddies were not low class like he's pretending.

[Anonymous No.17245522]

>>17245509
>>17245490

[Anonymous No.17245530]

>>17245463
You are absolute scum.
A complete class traitor, you know how life is for the working class in the real America and then you turn around and shit on the same people that you grew up with, thinking that you're superior just because you made it in the Big rotten Apple.
And let me tell you something: all those elitists, those bourgeois bohemians, they will NEVER truly accept you, they will always still see you as an uneducated yokel and resent you behind your back for trying to muscle in on their territory.
And you do the most pathetic thing possible, you cuck out, suck their cocks and renounce your true self for the chance of being recognized by them (which they never will).
Rethink your life.

[Anonymous No.17245532]

This thread really went off the rails huh.

[Anonymous No.17245536]

>>17245516
go on nyc craigslist right now and search for rooms for rent, guaranteed there are tons even below $700, but it's going to be a tiny room on a fourth floor walk up next to a scrap yard or something, but if you want to be an artist, you'll do it

[Anonymous No.17245539]

>>17245536
>700
ok mr moneybags

[Anonymous No.17245540]

>>17244680
It's all cope fellas, its over and has been thanks to those fucking serbs starting WW1

[Anonymous No.17245541]

>>17245516
>https://newyork.craigslist.org/brk/roo/d/brooklyn-furnished-room-in-brooklyn/7252319290.html

you think you have to be "high class" to live there? that's the first hit of 272 rooms for rent in brooklyn for less than $700

[Anonymous No.17245547]

>>17245541
you are so delusional about how much money poor people actually have

[Anonymous No.17245549]

>>17245539
even renting a room in some corny place like phoenix arizona will costs like $500, stop being a whiny lil bee aye

[Anonymous No.17245555]

>>17245547
dude, the minimum wage in nyc is like $15, you could work part time and make that rent.

[Anonymous No.17245562]

>>17245555
>job
ok rich man

[Anonymous No.17245573]

>>17245562
well i'm sure you can find section 8 apartments if you're that much of a sloth, but that actually will be like a deathwish movie scene

[Anonymous No.17245575]

being a successful artist in new york just means you and your friends go to each other's showings. no one except the group itself has ever heard of any of them.

[Anonymous No.17245582]

>>17245562
Lol, the minimum wage in N.Y. is way too high, that's probably why you don't have a job.

[Anonymous No.17245590]

i got turned down from mcdonald's because other candidates had "more educational qualifications. couldn't even work at mcdonalds without a college degree.

[Anonymous No.17245605]

>>17245530
So in order to not be "scum" in your eyes, I should work at the Wal-mart or be a roofer like the people I went to high school with? Have 3 kids with some ex-junkie chick that's either 90 or 300 pounds? End up a bitter alcoholic who hates himself for never pursuing his dreams? I don't think so pal...
> they will never accept you
Nah. I'm pretty sure a lot of them are pretty into me. Also, who cares if they do or don't, I'm proud of what I've achieved, and my work seems to sell well enough, that's enough to keep me going so that's good enough for me. All I've ever wanted to do in life is make art and I will keep chasing that dream until I croak.

>>17245555
This

[Anonymous No.17245620]

>New Yorkers aren't content with ruining their own city so they have to come ruin my thread instead.
Thanks a lot guys.

[Anonymous No.17245625]

>>17245605
You're a sell-out. If you really cared about art as your passion then you wouldn't care about how much money you make with it.
Just excuses for your lack of artistic integrity.

[Anonymous No.17245679]

>>17245625
Not a sellout, fren. I continue will make art no matter what. Even if I get sent to a re-education camp, I would make sculptures out of mud, wire and broken glass. Given the current economic reality, artists need to make money to sustain themselves, especially in NYC (which is like 1/3 cheaper now since covid, and also more dangerous). I do my best. I live frugally. Like another anon said, if you love art, you will live for it, no matter your circumstances.

[Anonymous No.17245746]

>>17245679
Lol this must be a troll.

[Anonymous No.17245792]

>>17245369
>If RYM or similar sites do become a majorly viable source of info about new music
RYM is already a viable source of info about a new music, specially if you follow cool people that somehow are aware of everything.

[Anonymous No.17245816]

>>17244720
Lol this highlights just how stupid and base nogs really are

[Anonymous No.17245818]

>>17245792
Good job being a drone.

[Anonymous No.17245837]

>>17245818
cope

[Anonymous No.17246028]

>>17244923
>>17244957
you fucking idiots read walter benjamin
cult value vs exhibition value

[Anonymous No.17246030]

>>17244720
The cocaine epidemic obliterated niggers, lmao. Where's the modern day Miles Davis or Coltrane? Nogs weren't always like this. Literally every fucking race and their respective quality of output is in decline.

[Anonymous No.17246052]

>>17245463
>>17245496
I wasn't trying to sound resentful. I was just pointing it out as fact.

[Anonymous No.17246074]

>>17244713
Cumtown podcast

[Anonymous No.17246088]

>>17244680
No.
But on the plus side, movements are shit anyways.

[Anonymous No.17246110]

>>17244779
>le robot people

Stop

[Anonymous No.17246119]

>>17246074
Correction: Cumtown podcast from 2016-summer of 2018.

[Anonymous No.17247400]

>>17244680
i've mostly thought about this related to music scenes, but the internet has certainly made it harder and harder for scenes to organically develop with mass information preventing these more isolated movements. I'd imagine it's similar for artistic movements. but that doesn't mean there isn't good individual work still being created

[Anonymous No.17247504]

>>17244720
that picture triggered me good job

[Anonymous No.17247520]

>>17245463
look at this fucking nigga lmaoe

[Anonymous No.17247534]

>there are literally no examples of contemporary art in this thread

[Anonymous No.17247544]

>>17247534
Memes are what will actually be seen as present day present time contemporary art and these faggots think that the only thing that constitutes a movement is an aesthetic, and on top of that they think that just because every mediocre artist could write a shitty manifesto on some uninspired anstract art spinoff but with squares and have his pseud friends paint 20-30 canvases it means that there were more art movements.

[Anonymous No.17247596]

>>17247544
>memes are what will actually be seen...as contemporary art
Troubling and uninformed opinion. Is @dril or horse ebooks or the like entertaining? Yes. Is it literary/artistic? That's problematic. The problem is that culture is being atomized, devoured, digested by the Internet. I don't even have the right verb for what's going on because it's going on now and we are all implicated in it. But one of the more baleful manifestations is the desire to treat art/literature as memetic, i.e., to see them only for their informational content. So a @dril tweet is only artistic insofar as it is memorable---it refuses to offer legitimate information while also forcing itself to stick in your mind lastingly and gratifyingly. In that sense it's an analogue of poetry---I mean, a highly circumscribed form, since 140 characters is no more or less arbitrary than a haiku or a villanelle---but it can't aspire to anything other than what it is. A random linguistic fragment that establishes meaning through a refusal to do so, or through an implied subversion of other poetic meanings. It can't accommodate narrative. It can't do anything but infect the larger flow of time and pseud-information on Twitter as it passes, and it's value comes mainly from the implied critique of everything else on Twitter (mostly, as far as I can tell, journalists being stupid in real time, and self-promotion--charming or tedious as the case may be--on the part of everybody else). So it's like saying that the only place a haiku can exist is in the middle of a physics textbook, and you have to believe the physics textbook is important to fully appreciate the haiku. I have no idea if I'm making sense anymore, but if I didn't make a prolix pretentious effort this wouldn't be /lit/ would it? I guess my point is that it's worth considering as an aesthetic phenomenon on the Internet----but the Internet is so wholly altering those aspects of our brain which respond to art (like, the willingness to have the TEMPORAL experience of Bleak House as part of the narrative experience) that I'm not actually sure any of these categories will still be standing by the time we figure out what Twitter is. For all I know, in 20 years time we will realize that Twitter was the fortune-cookie-factory of the Singularity all along, and nobody noticed.

[Anonymous No.17247608]

>>17245494
TPBP
10/5
keyed
based and redpilled
green hands typed this post

[Anonymous No.17247621]

>>17244760
The problem with the "illimitate resources" argument is that art becomes less powerful when it's completely removed from its cultural and social context

[Anonymous No.17247625]

>>17247621
Sorr, an Italian word slipped, i meant unlimited lol

[Anonymous No.17247634]

>>17245463
You seem to possess a blue collar, bootstraps mindset about art......you think of yourself as a self made man. You look down on the proles, the failures, the uninitiated. I think you should gain some perspective on your own tenuousness, and the caprice of the market. The role luck played in your achievements. The role it may yet play. Someone was in a good mood when they looked at your mfa application and selected you from the masses. Someone gave you the opportunity, and you took it. Good for you. But remember that the peons are fully realized people as well. And while they may not patronize your art,, they will nonetheless draw opinions on it as it gets pushed into the stream of collective consciousness. Art is nothing without a viewer. In the world of art, perhaps you are a lion.......Imagine a lion who thinks he is too holy to touch a zebra or gazelle. If you lose perspective your art will go the way of all those minor others who disappeared into the tsunami of history.

[Anonymous No.17247667]

>>17245463
>>17245530
>>17245490
>>17245500

I'm not sure why you're receiving all this hatred. Creativity is a necessity for those who possess it. Clearly, the other responders have a problem with your life choice. For those of you who do not understand, if you are creative and do not create, it practically kills your soul.

t. Artist (oil painting)

[Anonymous No.17247679]

There's plenty of good art everywhere, you're just not going to get it from the elite art circles because they are too busy trapped in the "transgression" paradigm, even though there's nothing to transgress against anymore, because people don't really believe in anything.

[Anonymous No.17247691]

If you could predict an art movement then it wouldn't be an art movement

[Anonymous No.17247697]

>>17247596
it's just funny pictures of frogs

[Anonymous No.17247702]

This is part of an installation by Ledelle Moe at MASS MoCA. Thoughts?

[Anonymous No.17247704]

>>17245470
Why does the favela send the loudest delegation of every single thread......

[Anonymous No.17247755]

>>17245496
this is part of the problem. "artists" seeing art as a career, as a business career with the exact same steps and ambitions.
i dont know why you associate committed enough to your art with moving to a culture center. i see it contrary to what you say, if you are commited enough to your art you just make that art. if you are really commited you dont care about moving to a culture center. but anyway you probably see art as a business so you cant even understand what i say.

[Anonymous No.17247777]

>>17247702
Looks very good to me even though I'm not a particular fan of sculpture in general.

[Anonymous No.17247787]

>>17247755
But there is value to being in a proximal, gestational community. Things like seeing your peers' works in the studio, or even having a weekly conversation at a bar, are a form of cultural exchange that richens the fabric of creativity via collective, unperceived alterations

[Anonymous No.17247792]

>>17245053
Yeah, an poo is the detritus of filtered nutrients that we dump into toilets. And grey non-polarization is just dithering. And stone is made from many minerals over a long period of time.

[Anonymous No.17247797]

>>17247787
this

[Anonymous No.17247803]

>>17245076
Why would I need that to physically happen when I can imagine it in my mind in an instant. Your idea is the Thomas Kinkade of the future.

[Anonymous No.17247825]

>>17247787
and why this only happens in a culture center?. the post im responding talk about capital and why people give you money. its not about creative sinergy at all.

[Anonymous No.17247827]

>>17245198
They are the ultimate nuance filter

[Anonymous No.17247833]

No, we’ve reached Human Instrumentality with the Internet.

[Anonymous No.17247835]

>>17247787
I find it hard to disagree with autistic evopsych when I see this. Why even try to relate these activities to Art. It's completely inconsequential.

[Anonymous No.17247848]

>>17247835
you must not be an artist if you don't think that what the other anon calls proximal, gestational activities like conversation and community (as well as reading, watching films, spending time in nature, exercise, etc) don't play a huge role in stimulating and sustaining the creative process

[Anonymous No.17247877]

>>17247835
Because art does not occur in a vacuum, in some dusty garret locked away from cityslickers, laborers, and money bags. What is Guernica? What is The Waste Land? Art is most alive when it responds to the living breathing world. And how will you know the world if you don't partake of it in some basic, everyday, accumulative form, hmm, monsieur?

[Anonymous No.17247878]

>>17247848
this happened eveywhere, you dont need to move to a culture center to read, have conversations, watching films, spending time in nature etc.

[Anonymous No.17247897]

>>17247878
It is certainly easier if you live in a place where artists congregate and not some backwoods heroin den like Gary Indiana

[Anonymous No.17247953]

>>17247897
no, it just means you made art "influenced" by a community of artists and not art influenced by some backwoods heroin den.
what is better is not important. art is an individual expression. you can make it everywhere.
the guy write specifically you should move to a cultural center so they can give you money. he see art as a business not as an expression.

[Anonymous No.17247972]

>>17247953
cope.

[Anonymous No.17247992]

>>17247972
why?.

[Anonymous No.17248011]

>>17247953
Ok, well if you want to make heroin inspired art, go ahead, move to Gary faggot. You're clearly being obtuse so I am done talking to you

[Anonymous No.17248012]

Some of us are out there trying to create them OP.

It involves doing something nobody else is doing, then continuing to do that thing and developing it while it doesnt catch on and nobody else does it. Eventually you will hopefully end up with something new and cool. After years of hard work.

Obviously social media is hardwired into your brain to prevent you doing this and will make you feel as bad as possible for not just following the latest trend. It will punish you with big numbers everywhere showing nobody likes it every time you post anything.
[as if it cant just let you post stuff and turn off likes but it categorically one million percent will never allow this]

But that's where personality comes in. Some people just feel empty if they only follow the latest trend, they desire to create something new and original and can never be happy otherwise. Such is the suffering of life.

Its clearly a vicious filter as not many people are making it to the other side with something new these days.

But if thats your destiny thats your destiny and you are out there trying to create that new thing.

[Anonymous No.17248013]

>>17247848
>>17247877
That's not particularly what I was disagreeing with. In a thread of shallow bickering, hopefully you can see. He used specific terms in a very specific way like hanging out in a bar and visiting a studio, you are using general terms that apply to every person alive and maybe if used properly to a lucky few who might not even be inclined towards art. Without the internet, it might be different. But to me, everything in the current moment is headed towards an explosion of every person on their own. The cities are full of liars and the mentally ill and people who really want to be something, (as are the little backwaters and the internet forums) rather than just being. Maybe you should instead use entrepreneur instead of artist. And everything is the living breathing world, but definition. Anything that goes against what you are setting up would seem radical purely by being relatively oppositional, which is what art is to the entire world. So what is it?

[Anonymous No.17248047]

>>17244680
The internet itself is going to be viewed as major artistic and cultural movement. We are on the tail end of that movement now and has now been repackaged for popular consumption. Another one is coming, just give it some time.

[Anonymous No.17248089]

>>17248011
my point is that if you are commited enough to YOUR art, you dont need to go anywhere because is something about your inner self.
all you are saying is that art is some social synergy thing and that you should move to places with good synergy to make good art. my point is that this is tangential to art, you dont decide and you cant know what place and what synergy make you a better artist. this is not how it works, you adapt and create where you are, thats it.
anyway, its like you dont understand what i say. sorry buddy.

[Anonymous No.17248181]

>>17245536
>but if you want to be an artist, you'll do it
What kind of gig did you work while doing this?

[Anonymous No.17248238]

>>17244680
The artistic movements of the current age are uneducated people bickering about the minutiae of the user interfaces of mobile apps.

[Anonymous No.17248311]

>>17244680
Anons making dumb shit in mspaint is the biggest
>dedicated groups of people working toward the same intellectual and artistic goals
ever

[Anonymous No.17248323]

>>17244680
They were only ever very local, provincial scenes of peers goading each other on; regional character grounds style — either globalism fails to create a beige leveled McDonalds breed of human cattle, or things only get more barren from here on out.

[Anonymous No.17248393]

>>17245463
We get it, you went to Pratt

[Anonymous No.17248403]

>>17248311
Yike

[Anonymous No.17248417]

>>17244720
you fucking leave my precious Tarr movies out of this

[Anonymous No.17248435]

name a pre-19th century art movement

art was ruined by movements

[Anonymous No.17248437]

>>17244701
>Art is definitely richer now
Oh yeah cant wait to have another couple hundred all glass high rise buildings. Or a few more thousand "exhibitions" and "installations" of trash sitting on the floor of a gallery. Truly groundbreaking stuff these days.

[Anonymous No.17248459]

>>17248435
I wouldn't recommend the pre coffee bowel movement

[Anonymous No.17248733]

>>17248435
Gothic architecture

[Anonymous No.17248823]

>>17244923
video games are simply a medium. just because popular music and marvel movies are products doesn't mean the entire mediums of film and music are devoid of art.

[Anonymous No.17249014]

>>17244720
>russell = bela tarr

.................the FUCK?

[Anonymous No.17249060]

Cope all you guys want, NYC is to today's artists what Florence or Paris was in the Renaissance or 19th century.

[Anonymous No.17249106]

>>17249060
Yes, in the sense that all three are the purest instantiations of the values and creative impulses of their day. This does not inherently make their output comparable though. Tell me, which values and aesthetics are being instantiated in NYC? No need to answer, I've seen it myself. Your answer is more true than you know but not for the reasons you think it is.

[Anonymous No.17249141]

>>17249106
Name 3 shows or exhibitions you saw last year in the city.

[Anonymous No.17249173]

>>17244923
Correct

[Anonymous No.17249202]

lots of mad citylets ITT

[Anonymous No.17249211]

>>17244999
Based and snob-pilled. Completely agree.

[Schamyl No.17249222]

Don t worry anon It will be great again the weak will perish.

[Anonymous No.17249248]

>>17245196
you really can see it?
shoegaze = hazy, dreamy rock
carti = hazy, dreamy trap

[Anonymous No.17249295]

>>17248047
i agree with this.

[Anonymous No.17249326]

>>17244680
I'd love to facefuck Molly Ringwald.

[Anonymous No.17249335]

>>17244680
there are still artistic movements anon, dw.
rich people just found out its a great way to launder money so al the pretentious assholes get the spotlight. are there no small galleries/ exposition spaces close to you anon? (also the internet of course!)

[Anonymous No.17249422]

>>17244680
They still exist. We’re currently in a progressive minimalist era. However, note that because of the internet, time and history moves at an unprecedented speed. Developments that previously would have taken years now happen in months or even weeks. Therefore, it’s possible that a movement can die in the space of months too.

[Anonymous No.17249460]

>>17244680
There are dedicated groups of individuals working towards common aesthetic goals right now, but it's almost all sub rosa. Very small scale, often poorly funded. But people try, and occasionally succeed

[Anonymous No.17249461]

>>17244884
>And also, on the subject of hyperpop, it is still playing in the same field as (post)-post-modernism. Whether you think they are being ironic with their shitty music or they are a form of new sincerity, they are still playing into the whole "irony/sincerity" dichotomy which has been pretty dominant for years. This is personal opinion, but I am bored of the entire dichotomy. It's like everything needs to consciously signal where it sits on the line between ironic and sincere and I'm just sick of it in general. I'm not tired of irony or tired of sincerity I'm just tired of everything (within the realm of """serious art""") being about this dichotomy.
(my point might be outdated, I've lost interest in the music a long time ago)
but there Is no signalling that it sits on any line, it's intended as completely sincere
the pc music guys are writing pop music for the top 40 and tv commercials to make money, there's no subversive vaporwave-esque critique going on
it was stylistically different to stuff coming from american and swedish writers around the time, and it had some creative marketing (some of which was humorous, but not necessarily ironic). but all this served only as a way to break into the market, it's business
alex cook is an enemy of the exact thing you describe, the "tasteful" boundary between good and "ironically good". he says as much in interviews. very explicitly. yet critics and internet hipsters can't take him at his word.
you're right that this dichotomy is ubiquitous, now people can't even think outside of those terms
so you're kinda right about pc music, but I'd say in their defense that I don't think they do mean to play into it, it's not their fault, they're just autists

[Anonymous No.17249530]

>>17244680
artistic movements have always been a meme, also you are living in one right now.

[Anonymous No.17249567]

>>17244999
absolute brainlet neo-boomer take

[Anonymous No.17249617]

>>17245679
bait

[Anonymous No.17249879]

>>17244680
Post-internet is a contemporary moment and 4chan is a MAJOR part of it. And an unconscious contributor.

Oneohtrix Point Never released the video of his track "Still Life (Betamale)" on /mu/ back in 2013. Video was complied by a contemporary artist "Jon Rafman." See pic related if you want to see the video then you will find it on Vimeo.
Link to archived /mu/ thread on Jon Rafman's website.

>http://jonrafman.com/4chan.pdf

Here's a good article in which the artist is talking about 4chan and its culture.

>"I BEGAN TO KNOW the fighting game community of New York while I was doing interviews for my 2011 film Codes of Honor, which is about a lone gamer recounting his past experiences in professional gaming. That work generally deals with a loss of history and the struggle to preserve tradition in a culture where the new sweeps away the old at a faster and faster pace. I saw the pro gamer as a contemporary tragic hero who strives for classic virtues in a hyperaccelerated age. The very thing the gamer attempts to master is constantly slipping away and becoming obsolete, which acutely reflects our contemporary condition.

>When I held the pro gaming tournament at Zach Feuer in honor of the original Chinatown Fair arcade, which was the last great East Coast video arcade, it was as if the whole project had been leading up to that night. This was also true for the release on 4chan of my 2013 film Still Life (Betamale), a work that brings to light the darker fetishes of Internet subcultures—including furry fandom, kigurumi, and 8-bit anime. The community and the artist came face to face, and the reaction to the work was rich and varied. For instance, a 4chan user wrote:

this shit would have been cool in 2005 but you're on goddamn 4chan in 2013, one of the biggest sites for “SUCH A LOSER ;_;” people to ever browse the internet
someone didn't found out your dirty secret life and reveal it to everyone else
we've been doing it since the early/mid 2000's
it isn't special
get over it

>Here the commenter is mocking my fetishization of these subcultures in classic 4chan style, while also revealing that sense that the moment you “discover” said culture it has already moved on. It also indirectly hints at the sublime feeling I every now and again experience when I'm surfing the Web and I suddenly discover a new community or fully formed subculture that has its own complex vocabulary and history. It’s this overwhelming sensation that there are subcultures within subcultures, worlds upon worlds upon worlds ad infinitum.

Link to the article:
>https://www.artforum.com/interviews/jon-rafman-discusses-his-show-at-the-contemporary-art-museum-st-louis-47380

[Anonymous No.17249997]

>>17249060
its funny you say everybody is coping. in my eyes you are the one who is coping. desperately attached to believe in the bohemian artistry in paris in this modern days, and NY as the center of the world.
probably in the future this time will be eating by internet and his decentralization. you are in the past in a way.

[Anonymous No.17250089]

Fuck Jew Yorkers

[Anonymous No.17250117]

>>17244680
Molly Ringwald must be the most beautiful Female to ever walk the planet...

[Anonymous No.17250305]

>>17250117
she was. but why she aged so bad and so strangely?. every photo post 90´s look like almost an uggo. there is no softness, no melancholy.

[Anonymous No.17250380]

>>17244720
really struggling to find the connection between fucking blueface and whitehead

[Anonymous No.17250390]

>>17244720
can some American explain what the hell happened to black people, I've seen pictures of them in the 50s and 60s and they seemed pretty productive and adjusted people.

[Anonymous No.17250417]

>>17250390
White supremacy came back in full force, along with the alt-right that wants to oppress POC

[Anonymous No.17250428]

>>17244680
the internet will not be around forever

[Anonymous No.17250436]

>>17250417
a friend of mine told me it had something to do with the goverment introducing massive amounts of drugs on black neighborhoods to sabotage the black communities, is that true?

[Anonymous No.17250444]

>>17250428
God I hope so, current Internet is corporatized and SOULLESS

[Anonymous No.17250476]

>>17250436
Yes, the neoliberal demon Ronald Reagan had his CIA goons buy cocaine from counterrevolutionary guerrilas in Central America, they're the ones who introduced crack to the inner cities. Bear in mind that it was the white Christian Conservative Right who voted him in power.

[Anonymous No.17250478]

>>17250436
Don't fucking take them then, idiot wogs. Presentable blacks still do exist but the layabout type will never take any responsibility for themselves.

[Anonymous No.17250510]

>>17244738
>Postmodern authors like Pynchon and Delillo

same with Pynchon, bleeding edge is atrocious

[Anonymous No.17250530]

>>17250444
I just wanna go back

[Anonymous No.17250996]

>>17248435
Renaissance?

[Anonymous No.17251010]

>>17250444
>>17250530
Cringe

[Anonymous No.17251180]

>>17250390
They've always been like what you've seen for the past six months. It's just that now access to alternative media is easier than ever so it's easier to work out your own opinion without being spoonfed by some shadowy conglomerate

[Anonymous No.17252855]

>>17244713
Imperial Triumphant

[Anonymous No.17252914]

>>17247755
if anything, if you are commited enough to your art, you move to a quieter place. Just like Van Gogh did

[Anonymous No.17253174]

No we will not. We're left with quick waves of aesthetics. Yes this is due to the internet. Cyberculture in general has stopped being a sub-culture with art instances inside it and now is like the second face of "real world (culture)". Everything moves too fast and the masses aren't interested in consuming art, rather they confuse it with consuming entertainment. A group of artists can write a manifesto and get together if they want, but currently everyone is bombarded with a ridiculous amount of content that the public will loose attention and maybe, just maybe, such movements will seem pointless in a span of two months or less. What's also important to notice is that in this era there is not a common enemy to tackle or protest, like during and post-WWII or the civil rights movement. Instead, today we don't know what's the "problem". You can say we are facing racism or loneliness or whatever but people will immediately add up more things on the list like LGBT discrimination, poverty, trans ppl, capitalism, sexism, and so on. It's like today "everything is wrong" so a lot of art feels so empty. I think the closest we can get to a new artistic movement is something similar to cubism that emerged in part because at the time painting needed something else to offer than photography. So maybe a new art movement changes film, or literature, idk. Today we have performance art which most of the time is bs. Also, perhaps a movement against post-modernism and cyberculture is what will come next. But right now these are empty times to be an artists, I tell you from experience.

[Anonymous No.17253276]

>>17249248
the former is good the latter is trash however

[Anonymous No.17253427]

>>17244923
Undertale is s better piece of art than any book produced in the last 2 decades

[Anonymous No.17253429]

>>17253276
Cope

[Anonymous No.17253496]

>>17253429
seething

[Anonymous No.17253567]

>>17244680
She looks like candy here.