/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.17348721]

Is antinatalism just a cope for being ugly?

[Anonymous No.17348733]

Uncertain. however, I'm thinking about that time Aristotle said you can't be a good person if you're ugly. that was a funny fucking passage

[Anonymous No.17348741]

TO THIS FUCKING DAY NOBODY REFUTED! JUST PURE UNADULTERATED COPE

[Anonymous No.17348746]

>>17348741
Goethe prerefuted it

[Anonymous No.17348745]

Is pic related ugly?

[Anonymous No.17348754]

>>17348741
https://www.abolitionist.com/anti-natalism.html

>Benatar's policy prescription is untenable. Radical anti-natalism as a recipe for human extinction will fail because any predisposition to share that bias will be weeded out of the population. Radical anti-natalist ethics is self-defeating: there will always be selection pressure against its practitioners. Complications aside, any predisposition not to have children or to adopt is genetically maladaptive. On a personal level, the decision not to bring more suffering into the world and forgo having children is morally admirable. But voluntary childlessness or adoption is not a global solution to the problem of suffering.

>Yet how should rational moral agents behave if - hypothetically - some variant of Benatar's diagnosis as distinct from policy prescription was correct?

>In an era of biotechnology and unnatural selection, an alternative to anti-natalism is the world-wide adoption of genetically preprogrammed well-being. For there needn't be selection pressure against gradients of lifelong adaptive bliss - i.e. a radical recalibration of the hedonic treadmill. The only way to eradicate the biological substrates of unpleasantness - and thereby prevent the harm of Darwinian existence - is not vainly to champion life's eradication, but instead to ensure that sentient life is inherently blissful. More specifically, the impending reproductive revolution of designer babies is likely to witness intense selection pressure against the harmfulness-promoting adaptations that increased the inclusive fitness of our genes in the ancestral environment of adaptation. If we use biotechnology wisely, then gradients of genetically preprogrammed well-being can make all sentient life subjectively rewarding - indeed wonderful beyond the human imagination. So in common with "positive" utilitarians, the "negative" utilitarian would do better to argue for genetically preprogrammed superhappiness.

[Anonymous No.17348765]

Being real now, OP, beside the extremely cope replies from some like: "kek kys cope uggo"

Antinatalism is extremely rational point, because to exist it to be at chance to suffer, be a small suffer or a big one, so the antinatalismpill say: the only winning move to not suffer is not come to exist in the first place. So as you can see, it's very very logical and rational, of course it's pessimistic view, but a very logical and raitonal one, the only way the it's "REFUTED" is to appeal that life isn't just suffering.

[Anonymous No.17348769]

>>17348745
Little feminine. Not ugly. Definitely not dating attractive girls. Unsurprising if gay

[Anonymous No.17348770]

>>17348745
that sour puss makes it look like sth up with his teeth

[Anonymous No.17348779]

>>17348765
Cont. So to be a antinatalist or not boils down to: do you believe that the suffering we have is worthy?

If yes, then you aren't a antinatalist, just a happy coping automata

If no, then you have taken the antinatalismpill and you won't bring another automa to suffer.

[Anonymous No.17348790]

>>17348765
Well life isn’t just suffering. Plenty of individuals get to the end of their life and say “all the suffering I endured was worth it. It was all worth it.”

Also, suffering in an of itself is not objectively bad. The antinatalist group would have to give up SOME ground on that. Suffering can lead to actualization. You also can’t discount meaning and it’s relationship to suffering.

Could the antinatlists discount Victor Frankel’s Mans Search for Meaning? That right there should be a slam dunk. Suffering in a concentration camp is low hanging fruit and yet he still makes a compelling case.

[Anonymous No.17348791]

>>17348754
>Let's gamble with someone's life bro because I have blind Faith in some technoutopia will come! Bro, just trust me


Communists believed in a utopia and only brought millions of dead and suffering.

[Anonymous No.17348796]

>>17348790
>>17348779
It's all depends if you think that suffering is worthy or not.

[Anonymous No.17348797]

>>17348745
rip

[Anonymous No.17349045]

Yes, but so is 99.9% of literature

[Anonymous No.17349059]

>>17348779
>automata

Doomoid cope.

[Anonymous No.17349114]

>>17348721
Remember to kill anti-Natalists, if they resist they refute themselves. Use 10mm if you have it, they have extraordinarily thick skulls

[Anonymous No.17349125]

>>17348721
No. I'm an attractive antinatalist
with kids of my own

[Anonymous No.17349249]

>>17348745
yes looks like a retarded lesbian

[Anonymous No.17349326]

>>17348741
>>17348765
>>17348779
What do I care for your suffering? Pain, even agony, is nothing more than information before the senses, data for the computer of the mind. It is no good to give suffering any more credence than it deserves.

[Anonymous No.17349365]

>>17348721
Antinatalism =/= celibacy

[Anonymous No.17349371]

>>17348721
Its cope for having the worldview of a literal worm

[Anonymous No.17349391]

>>17349125
so what you just hate your kids?

[Anonymous No.17349395]

no

[Anonymous No.17349401]

>>17348741
>NOBODY REFUTED!
Here you go
You always existed

[Anonymous No.17349413]

>>17348721
No, it’s a cope for being depressed

[Anonymous No.17349422]

>>17348791
The breeders are always going to win no matter what. Antinatalists are genetic dead ends. Why does it matter if it's you who does the reproducing?

https://www.unz.com/akarlin/breeders-revenge/

[Anonymous No.17349426]

>>17349125
you sound like a terrible father

[Anonymous No.17349432]

>>17349326
Stab yourself in the dick then if you think suffering isn't bad

[Anonymous No.17349451]

>>17349432
Yes, because pain is the only factor (or rather, non-factor) in stabbing your penis, absolutely nothing else needs to be considered. Idiot.

[Anonymous No.17349462]

>>17349451
And other people's pain is somehow different? Are you special in some way such that only "your" suffering matters?

[Anonymous No.17349467]

the only good natalist position is admitting that youre selfish and that youre making a decision for someone elses life that will likely be way different than youres and possibly be way worse and not worth it from a point of ignorance

>>17348790
but not everyone endures the same amount of suffering. of course the lucky ones will say its worth it and procreate. but there are way more unlucky ones that arent even around. we have a lucky bias because the luck survive.

suffering is subjectively bad, and thats what matters for the subject. actualization is a cope for suffering. its only good if youre already alive. meaning is a cope too. not saying its bad, but it litteraly is a coping mechanism.

[Anonymous No.17349488]

>>17348721
It's a cope for being insufferable

[Anonymous No.17349489]

>>17349462
Honest to Sneed, I didn't think I would have to explain this to you. I was trying to expose the fallacy in believing that pain was the only factor in stabbing my penis, rather than the ensuing mutilation and disability. Your 'gotcha' moment is only a ridiculous farce. Idiot.

[Anonymous No.17349640]

>>17349391
>so what you just hate your kids?
I love my kids deeply.

>>17349426
>you sound like a terrible father
I'm an incredible parent by any measure. My entire life is dedicated to them. But knowing what I know now, I would not have become a parent. I used to resent anti-natalists more than you can imagine. Now I realize they're either very wise or at least accidentally correct. We should also note that the author of "Confessions of an Anti-Natalist" also has a daughter that he mentioned frequently in the book

[Anonymous No.17349682]

>>17349467
Antinatalism is the most objectively selfish position there is, it's the complete denial of the possibility of the value of the lives of others.

[Anonymous No.17349725]

>>17348721
All he had to do was close his mouth bros

[Anonymous No.17349728]

>>17349682
>the possibility of the value

[Anonymous No.17349743]

>>17349682
its not a life yet. it has no value.

if you follow that logic, where do you stop? do you keep making kids and have as many as you can just to not deny anyone the possibility?

[Anonymous No.17349758]

>>17349682
If you believe that life is inevitably made up of suffering and you can spare suffering by not introducing more life, that is compassionate.

[Anonymous No.17349783]

>>17349758
Who are you feeling compassion for if they've not actually been born

[Anonymous No.17349785]

>>17349682
would you have a baby in africa? would you have a baby in a prison camp? would you have a baby in hell?

you're the type to put a 1 year old kid in daycare for 10 hours a day a call yourself "trad." if you don't have the resources, and if conditions are bad enough, You Should Not Breed

[Anonymous No.17349820]

>>17349783
Good point - poor word choice maybe. To use the word "objective," if your worldview is that suffering is universal - the mind is engineered to constantly cling and reject - it is selfish to bring a child into that. All the other arguments kind of assume that a child has the potential to form a philosophy that trumps the universality of suffering.

[Anonymous No.17349821]

>>17349785
no one has good enough conditions. "good in comparison" isnt good. the most basic lucky human life comes with a plethora of ignored suffering and causes suffering to others too. You Should Not Breed full stop

[Anonymous No.17349873]

no its just hatred of poor people

[Anonymous No.17349894]

>>17349821
You're more of an anti-natalist than I am. I guess I'm not on either side.. most people shouldn't breed, and are too stupid to parent correctly.. however, they will.
most people will be less happy as parents, unless they are dim or good at lying to themselves. but that's taboo. muh jews! they don't want us to breed! lol.

there is no meaning to life but suicide and militant infertility are both positive acts from failed optimists. nihilism does not place value on child birth, because fertility and infertility are equally meaningless. that's the place you should all be

[Anonymous No.17350108]

>>17349894
>nihilism does not place value on child birth, because fertility and infertility are equally meaningless. that's the place you should all be
this is the problem with this boards conception of nihilism. if you are a moral nihilist, you only believe that objective morals dont exist. of course reality doesnt care if you have a baby or not. but a moral nihilist may have subjective values. the antinatalism arguments happen here. its trying to change someones subjective feelings on a matter by pointing out things they might not have thought of.

[Anonymous No.17350175]

>>17348721
Antinatalism is the kind of idea I would try to convince someone I really, really hated to adopt, because it would be the next best thing to killing them.

With that in mind, anyone who adopts antinatalism is essentially doing to themselves what someone who hates them would do to them if they could. It's worse than cope, it's basically the stupidest mindset I can think of.

[Anonymous No.17350224]

>>17348745
A little bit. He has quite an androgynous face, with a very long philtrum and small mouth. The proportions of his face are quite weird. but not enough for the average person to outright just label him as ugly

[Anonymous No.17350428]

>>17348721
Yes.
>>17348741
Did he manage to prove life is suffering? No? Hmm, did he at least manage to prove suffering is bad? No again? Pity.

[Anonymous No.17350462]

>>17350175
That's idiotic. Most antinatalists justify their position from a utilitarian standpoint, so it means you will convince them to be as happy as possible.

[Anonymous No.17350609]

>>17348721
Silenus was a Greek God.

>"You, most blessed and happiest among humans, may well consider those blessed and happiest who have departed this life before you, and thus you may consider it unlawful, indeed blasphemous, to speak anything ill or false of them, since they now have been transformed into a better and more refined nature. This thought is indeed so old that the one who first uttered it is no longer known; it has been passed down to us from eternity, and hence doubtless it is true. Moreover, you know what is so often said and passes for a trite expression. What is that, he asked? He answered: It is best not to be born at all; and next to that, it is better to die than to live; and this is confirmed even by divine testimony. Pertinently to this they say that Midas, after hunting, asked his captive Silenus somewhat urgently, what was the most desirable thing among humankind. At first he could offer no response, and was obstinately silent. At length, when Midas would not stop plaguing him, he erupted with these words, though very unwillingly: 'you, seed of an evil genius and precarious offspring of hard fortune, whose life is but for a day, why do you compel me to tell you those things of which it is better you should remain ignorant? For he lives with the least worry who knows not his misfortune; but for humans, the best for them is not to be born at all, not to partake of nature's excellence; not to be is best, for both sexes. This should be our choice, if choice we have; and the next to this is, when we are born, to die as soon as we can.' It is plain therefore, that he declared the condition of the dead to be better than that of the living."

– Aristotle, Eudemus (354 BCE)

[Anonymous No.17350639]

>>17350609
Schopenhauer was an aristocrat

>“If children were brought into the world by an act of pure reason alone, would the human race continue to exist? Would not a man rather have so much sympathy with the coming generation as to spare it the burden of existence, or at any rate not take it upon himself to impose that burden upon it in cold blood?”

[Anonymous No.17350652]

>>17348721
how can OP be this based?

[Anonymous No.17351072]

>>17348733
>Aristotle said you can't be a good person if you're ugly
Uhm, where could one read the excerpt b-bros? Asking for a friend

[Anonymous No.17351092]

>>17350462
I don't care how they justify it, only its actual effect. If I could convince someone I hate not to breed, I would.

If I could convince someone I hate to overdose on heroin, I'd tell them to do that too--and it wouldn't matter at all that their final moments are "happy" as they die.

[Anonymous No.17351120]

>>17351092
Misanthropes encourage other people to have kids because they want to inflict more suffering to their enemies(which is whole humanity). Yes, you are no better than them.

[Anonymous No.17351227]

It is like no one can hear me. All pains and pleasures are mere residues of activity and motion; they are of no substance in themselves.

[Anonymous No.17351272]

jangle convoluted wind chimes the coda agency scaly sepsis shyster smitten sordid stultifying the sticks terra nullius white elephant baste break ranks chortle in no time flat inimical interdisciplinary Procrustean kink pull out all the stops grotty opprobrium pearl clutcher waffle on flick through foreboding Indian giver broadcast syndication sinecure self-effacing cloistered skanky waylay gobshite shacking up with will-o'-the-wisp bleary-eyed sales lead flat-track bully tinder pier cacaphonous tramp trade battery of stub one's toes unwarranted perp slasher film lucre parlous bungle wholesome Charon's obol dainty seemly cluster immutable sock hop unseemliness gushing squalor hog the bathroom gold plating snarl jilted blithely barrage bedraggled bibs blow your top doggone fluster gnat gobsmacked holler in the nick of time indigence lowdown luggage rack nosh rugged squelch scrounge off trounce sepsis blithely spur shakedown skimming garrote misandry gallantry gourd scamper trepidation clamor coupe prang hone in desolate strenuous dispositive searing quibble ham-fisted congeal reticent housewarming party barb stockade sophomoric ephemeron auteur theory grouse the stoop peat sleet perimeter bluster effervescent grange elocution plum in your mouth genteel kooky sap tepid fraggle Kabbalah nappy transmogrification gumption laced with moribund heterodox diuretic corollary buttonwood propulsion despondent sumptuary laws subbing riven schlub littoral prise a secret out of torrid raffle declaim sheaves upped unravel twerp tryst trite tiff straddle snooker shuffle senescence sartorial ride two horses at once reprimand pouting plonk panhandle magisterial hunk hammerlock ham-fisted gritty gaggle of geese gagging order gab flabby ester ephemera dud make a dog's dinner out of it clunky celluloid boinked at any rate gnarly dinghy for good measure skelly sombre skit warlock apodosis repudiate contrition scintilla bounced in snatch clung on to jabs whole host of harnessing stricken

[Anonymous No.17351348]

>>17348733
Post link. Nice digits btw

[Anonymous No.17351401]

>>17348765
>Antinatalism is extremely rational point
There is no rationale here. They assumed life is bad and non-existence is good from start, the rest of their 'philosophy' are just decorations.
You only need common sense to refute this shit. One can never experience any alternative of existence so it's stupid to judge. If any antinatalist come up and try to rationalize it for you, they are trying to brainwash you and thus, you can show them they are not free of responsibility of real world by punch them on their face

[Anonymous No.17352099]

>>17351120
Redefining "Misanthropy" to mean the exact opposite of misanthropy is not an actual argument. I also think I can safely disregard the moral opinions of someone who considers perpetuating humanity to be evil out of hand.

[Anonymous No.17352125]

>>17352099
You are an antinatalist in denial. Thank you for spreading the good word and taking the bait by misanthrope like a good ol' npc.

[Anonymous No.17352305]

>>17349401
>If you´re dead for eternity its a nightmare
>If you never die, then life will be a nightmare too
>However, if you don´t remember your past life, you can repeat the process forever without going through hell

Jesus fucking Christ, existence is a scam why tf is it like this

[Anonymous No.17352315]

>>17348765
the purpose of life IS suffering, chasing ghosts of utopianism or perpetual happiness leads to horrible result
learn to accept suffering as a necessary part of life and antinatalism crumbles

[Anonymous No.17352688]

>>17352315
>antinatalism crumbles
not really

[Anonymous No.17352691]

>>17348721
Who /pumpkinseedenchantedjoebidenchampionvote/?

[Anonymous No.17352703]

>>17352688
Actually it does.

[Anonymous No.17352706]

>>17352703
It doesn't, though.

[Anonymous No.17352712]

>>17352703
how so?

[Anonymous No.17354204]

Anti Natalists usually think they're the most rational and logical people around, but then when you present them with non cognitivist meta ethics and they can barely defend their ideas.

[Anonymous No.17354280]

>>17354204
>the most rational and logical people around
They shouldn't, moral principles have little to do with "rationality" or even any sort of "logic".
t.antinatalist

[Anonymous No.17354484]

What is the actual anti natalist argument. Distilled down what is the premise and conclusion? It seems like a cope trying to make some ultimate moral claim while having no basis to justify anything.

[Anonymous No.17354488]

>>17348754
This is the real nightmare

[Anonymous No.17354497]

>>17348779
>automata
The singular is automaton, retard, and this is an embarrassing attempt to co-opt the NPC meme and reframe it as people who do not share your obvious mental defect.

[Anonymous No.17354588]

>>17348721
Yeah. But so’s having kids. So what’cha gonna do?

[Anonymous No.17354601]

>>17348745
He's got a bit of that le pol face going on. But he's got a nice tight body. He has to work on his facial expressions because he's definitely giving those bitter incel vibes with that pout.

[Anonymous No.17354733]

>>17348745
I miss him bros

[Anonymous No.17354920]

>>17354488
Why is it a nightmare? You don't want to experience nonstop orgasmic pleasure for the rest of eternity?

[Anonymous No.17354931]

>>17348745
He’d make for a good twink but no woman would ever want that unless they were desperate to have kids and thirty five and also kinda chubby.

[Anonymous No.17354952]

>>17354488
Doesn't sound that bad to me, I'd take it over what I have right now, I can tell you that much.

[Anonymous No.17354972]

>>17348754
>let’s make ideas and policies today based on the blind faith of nerdy midwit white guys that le magic sci fi sorcery from their favorite dumb capeshit movies is going to most definitely be possible someday!
Yeah, I’m not taking that gamble. I’m not saying I’ll bet against it ever becoming possible, but you can’t just wave away ideas because of your baseless assumption that time travel will ever be possible.
Someone could easily argue their way out of taking any measures to stop climate change based on “oh no u guys just wait twenty more yeerz for cold fusion!!!!” I’m not going to throw out ideas because they don’t take into account unicorns one day existing in the future, even if it is le science.

[Anonymous No.17354994]

>>17348769
He was obsessed with a girl named Lindsey, so he wasn't gay

[Anonymous No.17355021]

>>17354920
The fact you posted that pic just proves you agree with me

[Anonymous No.17355029]

>>17348733
Kind of true. Ugly people are bitter and hateful. See Antinatalists.

[Anonymous No.17355058]

>>17355021
Except I think that that pic happening would unironically be a good thing

[Anonymous No.17355095]

>>17348741
Could someone actually explain why? I enjoy life. Dying kind of sucks, but that's because of non-existence, which would be my state if I'd never been born. The only reason non-existence bothers me is /because/ I was born, obviously, but I am only concerned with it while alive and I'm not that terrified by it anymore. I don't see how living and dying is worse than never having lived unless you were just going to literally suffer your entire life. But at least in the first world, that's pretty rare

[Anonymous No.17355155]

>>17355058
Then you're convicted to hedonism to a batshit insane degree and will allow yourself to be killed by a paperclip maximizer/utility monster AI if one comes

[Anonymous No.17355171]

>>17354972
>Yeah, I’m not taking that gamble. I’m not saying I’ll bet against it ever becoming possible, but you can’t just wave away ideas because of your baseless assumption that time travel will ever be possible.
>Someone could easily argue their way out of taking any measures to stop climate change based on “oh no u guys just wait twenty more yeerz for cold fusion!!!!” I’m not going to throw out ideas because they don’t take into account unicorns one day existing in the future, even if it is le science.
The idea is about maximizing pleasure, not time travel
Still a shitty future, these people have clearly not read Brave New World or Nozick

[Anonymous No.17355176]

>>17355058
>Except I think that that pic happening would unironically be a good thing
I'm glad you'll be too busy stuck in some VR MMO or laboring for pleasure pills to have influence on others

[Anonymous No.17355184]

>>17349422
Sure I don't care, by the end of this century I will be long gone, and no of my possible children will suffer living in a world with 1 000 000 000 nigger roaming around and put a ending to civilization, the world can burn.

[Anonymous No.17355299]

>>17355155
>Then you're convicted to hedonism to a batshit insane degree and will allow yourself to be killed by a paperclip maximizer/utility monster AI if one comes

[Anonymous No.17355313]

>>17348721
Why wouldn't you want a chance to exist? The world is so interesting.

[Anonymous No.17355318]

>>17355095
>I enjoy life.
Just because you enjoy life doesn't mean everyone does.

[Anonymous No.17355325]

>>17355313
For U

[Anonymous No.17355334]

>>17355318
ok...? I never said it did. Does every human life have to have been worth living for it to make sense for a single life to exist?

[Anonymous No.17355341]

>>17355318
>>17355325
I think I agree with OPs assertion now

[Anonymous No.17355361]

>>17354972
Relevant:
https://reducing-suffering.org/how-likely-is-wireheading/

> Wireheading is evolutionarily maladaptive. Reward signals are designed to motivate fitness-enhancing behaviors, so when they can be faked, the organisms focus on generating more wireheading signals instead of acting effectively in the world. Drug addicts more interested in their next chemical hit than in food, sex, or power are less likely to pass on their genes.

[Anonymous No.17355372]

>>17355299
Well, enjoy your sweet death, then

[Anonymous No.17355380]

>>17354488
Read this:
https://qualiacomputing.com/2016/08/20/wireheading_done_right/

[Anonymous No.17355388]

>>17355318
why would i care about your stupid life.
fuck off.

[Anonymous No.17355408]

>>17348721
>>17355372
>>17355155
>>17352315
>>17349682

[Anonymous No.17355411]

>>17355388
At least you admit you're a sociopath

[Anonymous No.17355416]

>>17348721
Sometimes I hate this board but posts like this make me BELIEVE. Thank you OP.

(Yes)

[Anonymous No.17355417]

>>17348721
Antinatalism is refuted by the fact that only some people are antinatalists. If life is for some suffering but isn't for others then clearly there should be more of the latter type and not of the former, aka eugenics.

[Anonymous No.17355426]

>>17348721
Is that an actual picture of David Benatar?

[Anonymous No.17355427]

>>17348733
Socrate ?

[Anonymous No.17355450]

>>17355411
>waaahhhh my life is horrible, my parents are narcissists for bringing me into existence for their own satisfaction
>literally no one should exist because I don't know how to be happy
jesus dude, you're a fucking narcissist. Calm down. The world doesn't revolve around you. 7 billion people don't need to not reproduce because you got picked on in middle school

[Anonymous No.17355486]

>>17348721

And how exactly is antinatalism supposed to help someone cope with being ugly exactly?
The way you cope with being ugly is by having a lot of money or a good personality
I fail to see how being a misanthropic life hater is supposed to make an ugly person's life any easier in literally any way

[Anonymous No.17355491]

>>17355450
>waaahhhh my life is horrible, my parents are narcissists for bringing me into existence for their own satisfaction
>literally no one should exist because I don't know how to be happy
There are a lot of other people besides me who have shitty lives.

>jesus dude, you're a fucking narcissist. Calm down. The world doesn't revolve around you. 7 billion people don't need to not reproduce because you got picked on in middle school
And you're not a narcissist? You think it's more important that you get to stick your dick in a woman and cum in her and pass on your shitty genes than it is that you prevent future suffering?

[Anonymous No.17355576]

>>17351092
>He believes kids make him immortal
You'll die both, maybe before him. And he will never give a shit about you or your kid which will die all the same.

[Anonymous No.17355605]

>>17351401
>and non-existence is good from start
Non existence is neither good or bad, that's the point. The question then is about necessity, is it necessary to breed or is it not ? Because then, there will be good and bad. Maybe more good, maybe more bad.

[Anonymous No.17355651]

>>17355491
>you think it's more important to cum in a woman than prevent future generations from suffering
no, I think it's more important to create babies in loving homes where the vast majority of them will live happy, fulfilling lives, than to worry about the handful like you who, despite given every opportunity, choose to waste their life.
Sure, if you're living in poverty, stop having kids. You're just bringing them into a shitty existence. But for someone who can provide a good home to a kid, go ahead, coom away, brother.

[Anonymous No.17355709]

>>17355651
How do you know your "loving homes" will make them live a happy, fullflling lives ? Will you try to give them every opportunity for that ? But then, maybe they will "choose to waster their life" all the same ?
Welp, that's worrying to me and many others.

[Anonymous No.17355781]

[Anonymous No.17356139]

>>17348721
>>17348741
Antinatalism is pessimism and pure utilitarian logic taken to its logical conclusion. Basically the people who keep the game going just do so out of habit.

Personally I think it's hilarious that life is doomed to keep making copies of itself until the planet, solar system, universe, etc. just straight up cant support life anymore. Because the great and terrible secret is that eventually whether we want it to or not the game WILL come to an end.

Don't study cosmology if you want to stay ignorant and keep believing in the game.

[Anonymous No.17356274]

>>17355709
I don't. That's for them to figure out. If they choose to not have happy lives and waste them instead, that's their own fault.

[Anonymous No.17356386]

>>17349489
pathetic. One cannot honestly embrace existence if one does not accept that suffering is part of the deal and that a lot of suffering is pointless.

[Anonymous No.17356676]

>>17348733
Source please

[Anonymous No.17356699]

>>17356139
What cosmology has brought to you?

[Anonymous No.17356721]

>>17356139
>Basically the people who keep the game going just do so out of habit.

Well, there is both habit, social-expectation -- which I suppose is an echoing of habit --, and the overarching death-cope of immortalization.

[Anonymous No.17356781]

>>17356139
>Because the great and terrible secret is that eventually whether we want it to or not the game WILL come to an end.
Unless it becomes technologically possible to escape the universe.

http://immortality-roadmap.com/unideatheng.pdf

[Anonymous No.17356822]

>>17348721
Yes. That nigga ugly asf

[Anonymous No.17356830]

>>17355408
You don't have to be a hedonist to think death is bad, you're just retarded, any ideology that values life is anti-death

Oh wait, you're baiting

[Anonymous No.17356831]

>>17356274
>happiness is a choice
Shut the fuck up boomer

[Anonymous No.17356838]

>>17348745
FtM ?

[Anonymous No.17356842]

>>17356830
>you're just retarded
Why am I retarded?

[Anonymous No.17356846]

>>17356781
>Believing in technoutopia

Faith for a new age.

[Anonymous No.17356863]

>>17356842
You effectively cropped my post and ignored the rest, very ironic that you're calling me an NPC

[Anonymous No.17356867]

>>17356781
Nice fanfic there bro.

[Anonymous No.17356902]

>>17356386
suffering is not part of "life"
it's an experience in itself
when you go through it all other things go out of the window,they don't matter
but the good news is that you don't have to suffer

[Anonymous No.17356919]

>>17356846
Literally nothing in the chart mentions utopia, it's just a list of possible ways the heat death of the universe could be survivable.

[Anonymous No.17356923]

>>17356863
Then why is it that you are anti-death in the first place?

[Anonymous No.17356928]

>>17348733
i'm an ugly sperg and all i am is charitable and polite :( i'm not even bitter or resentful

[Anonymous No.17356946]

>>17355417
>If life is for some suffering but isn't for others then clearly there should be more of the latter type and not of the former, aka eugenics.
This

[Anonymous No.17356966]

>>17356923
>Then why is it that you are anti-death in the first place?
Literally any ideology which places value in life thinks death is a bad thing
It's not exclusive to hedonism, that is all

[Anonymous No.17356986]

>>17356966
>Life is valuable therefore death is bad
But why do you place value in life?

[Anonymous No.17356993]

>>17356831
it is. What is your reason for thinking it is not?

[Anonymous No.17357002]

>>17356986
>But why do you place value in life?
Knowledge, accomplishment, purpose, and yes, pleasure, but that's not the only thing at all, making it not hedonism

[Anonymous No.17357007]

>>17356993
How the fuck do you make yourself happy?

[Anonymous No.17357035]

>>17357002
>Knowledge, accomplishment, purpose
But why do you want these things?

[Anonymous No.17357069]

>>17357035
>But why do you want these things?
Pleasure needs no why but other values do?

Spamming NPCs and brainlets just makes it seem like you're baiting, because no sane person doesn't intuitively understand some things can be intrinsically valuable to the human psyche as a whole, or you wouldn't choose to live, shitty bait

[Anonymous No.17357097]

>>17357069
The goodness and badness of pleasure and pain are directly observable. If you're being burned alive in a brazen bull, you can directly feel the inherent badness of the experience.

[Anonymous No.17357137]

>>17357097
The act of acquiring knowledge or satiating curiousity is pleasurable. You can basically reduce most values to "pleasure" in some way, but maybe you lose something when you do.

[Anonymous No.17357158]

>>17357007
are you asking sincerely? I can answer, but most people who ask that question are not interested in the answer.

[Anonymous No.17357166]

>>17357097
>The goodness and badness of pleasure and pain are directly observable. If you're being burned alive in a brazen bull, you can directly feel the inherent badness of the experience.
You can only "directly observe" this goodness/badness by either experiencing it yourself or understanding from the perspective of someone experiencing it, by this same logic those things i mentioned are also observable as good, as most who experience it will relate their goodness.
Science alone does not lead to pleasure and pain being good or bad, because scientific research is inherently detached and purely empirical, disregarding perspectives and philosophies.

[Anonymous No.17357192]

>>17356902
What are you trying to convey? Everyone suffers to some extent at some point in their life, some more than others. That is undeniable. How does suffering make other things not matter? Are you referring to people letting pain overwhelm their ability to make rational decisions? Allowing themselves to be coerced into doing things they otherwise wouldn't? It's certainly possible but there are also some who are able to rise above the pain and retain their faculties.

[Anonymous No.17357414]

Hey anti-natalists, if life is so bad then why don't you just heckin kill yourselves

[Anonymous No.17357453]

>>17348745
No

[Anonymous No.17357463]

>>17357158
>are you asking sincerely?
Yes
>inb4 just lift bro

[Anonymous No.17357471]

>>17357414
Based and totallyvalidpilled.

[Anonymous No.17357478]

>>17356139
>Antinatalism is pessimism and pure utilitarian logic taken to its logical conclusion.
I agree but utilitarianism is fucking garbage.

[Anonymous No.17357482]

>>17357478
>utilitarianism is fucking garbage
Why?

[Anonymous No.17357522]

>>17357097
>Yes, goodness and badness lie within observations and sensations
Plato is screaming right now.

[Anonymous No.17357575]

>>17357463
In your opinion, what is it about your life that makes you unhappy?

[Anonymous No.17357603]

>>17356386
>What do I care for your suffering? Pain, even agony, is nothing more than information before the senses, data for the computer of the mind.
>hhuuuuuurrrr your denying life
Suffering and pleasure is a part of life, yet they are absolutely pointless regardless of quantity. If you are living life in the pursuit of pleasure, you have essentially gimped yourself, for you are dedicating yourself to a mere byproduct of evolution.

[Anonymous No.17357907]

>>17357463
in general, fulfilling responsibility makes one happy. And maybe even just general welfare. Caring for the things that need to be cared for. Selfless contribution to the world. It doesn't matter if you're recognized. It doesn't really even matter if any given action does anything. Maybe you do something that doesn't help anyone at all. It's not really easy to predict. Your intention should be "good" (as you define it -- that is a question beyond the scope of this discussion) and you will feel /good/, I guarantee it. It is by caring for others that we care for ourselves.

[Anonymous No.17358122]

>>17356781
>Unless it becomes technologically possible to escape the universe.
Technology is not a never ending horn of plenty that people think it is and already we are starting to reach the limits of computers as dictated by restraints in scaling and physics. Most of the options on the pic you posted require a level of technology so far advanced and so theoretical that it might as well be magic. There is also the problem that right now everything is expanding away from everything on a cosmic scale so even if spaceflight off planet became a regular thing (it won't) we could only ever hope to visit our local cluster. But besides that even hoping for enough time to get to that sort of technology (if it can even be developed) kind of hinges on mankind not shooting itself in the foot and causing it's own extinction beforehand. Or if you want a more realistic appraisal because extinction is far fetched, before an event occurs that drastically reduces the human population and leaves us without the resources we are accustomed to having available.

The only real true hope that we have is that some form of string theory is correct and there will always be new universes popping into existence across an infinite plane of space time. Cold comfort because it's almost certain that we and they cannot detect or even interact with each other and while new universes may be beginning in other dimensions or regions on the infinite plane of spacetime our own will still be doomed to fizzle out and 'die'. The only good thing about infinity being that it does agree with Nietzsche's view of things, because the only way for you to be you is for literally every atomic position that ever occurred to occur in that same way again and for every event that shaped your life to occur again. And if things are indeed infinite that means that eventually there will be another "you" with your consciousness and memories and so on... but you won't realize it, and you will never realize it, you will be doomed to spend eternity reliving every triumph and every failure and every joy and every fear and pain FOREVER. And you will never realize it. Even it that is the case from your perspective accross these infinite versions of 'you', you will still perceive yourself as having a start and an end, so functionally it is no different than if you only lived once.

>>17356699
You've been warned, explore it at your own peril, I'm not saying anymore than that.

[Anonymous No.17358130]

>>17357482
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utility_monster

[Anonymous No.17358131]

>>17356928
Based. You've become even more virtues by overcoming your ugliness thus making you more beautiful than the beautiful.

[Anonymous No.17358716]

>>17357069
>>From a strictly physical standpoint, however, survival cannot be judged better than extinction. "Survivalism" survives, however, because the ancestors of survivors survived. It is a classic bias of living organisms, whether it is rationalized or not. That the bioinconsistent organization of an organism does not completely fall into a reductionistic collapse (consistency with its environment) may be the definition of its survival.

[Anonymous No.17359067]

Shouldn't antinatalist be pro suicide?
"But muh parents and friends will suffer"
Who cares you're dead.

[Anonymous No.17359126]

>>17356993
It is, but it's not yours to make.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genie_(feral_child)

[Anonymous No.17359462]

>>17358130
What is your preferred moral philosophy, if you dislike utilitarianism?

[Anonymous No.17359489]

>>17355155
>>17358130
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oImjjYN-OFA

[Anonymous No.17359496]

>>17359067
Your parents and friends can just commit suicide too if they suffer because of it.

[Anonymous No.17359520]

>>17357575
I enjoy literally nothing. Even watching an anime or playing a video game doesn't bring me enjoyment. I can't give you a better answer as for why this is the case besides having a defective brain with defective pleasure centers.

[Jesus No.17359988]

reminder: a century ago natalists used to have 5 children and more. these neets killed each other in two major wars, in many genocides. enjoy natalism, faggots. shills and glowniggers are children of natalists.

[Anonymous No.17360167]

>>17349682
That isnt selfish. It's just destructive.

[Anonymous No.17360182]

Childhood is anti-natalism.
Adulthood is realizing we can eliminate the pain caused by the human condition with transhumanism.

[Anonymous No.17360188]

>>17348721
you have literally no control over the upbringing of your kids unless you want them to be dysfunctional in this society which means they'll end up on drugs (either hard drugs or kike drugs) or an hero

[Anonymous No.17360338]

>>17354920
>>17354488
great conversation anons, i enjoyed it

[Anonymous No.17360354]

>>17359067
Most suicide methods are extremely painful and prone to failure

[Anonymous No.17360366]

>>17355155
this
endless hedonism and pleasure would be a true nightmare. it is outright contrary to human nature, and people would outright destroy themselves
see Notes from Underground

[Anonymous No.17360369]

>>17357907
>in general, fulfilling responsibility makes one happy.
Not him but I think there must be something wrong with me because I have never fulfilled a responsibility or obligation and felt good afterwards unless I got some kind of reward out of it, and in that case I only felt good because I got the reward, not because I fulfilled the obligation, I would have felt just as good if I just got the reward right away.

Ever since I was a kid I've loathed obligations and I've always avoided them, it's something I never outgrew, not that I ever tried to outgrow it though. This, along with some of my other traits have made me seriously consider if I'm a narcissist, personally I think that while I don't have full Narcissistic Personality Disorder, I do have a heavily narcissistic personality.

[Anonymous No.17360383]

>>17360369
Then how do you make money?

[Anonymous No.17360385]

>>17357463
>it's an /r9k/ crossposter
yes, unironically improve yourself. This tfw no gf bullshit is outright pathetic, stop crying over yourself.

[Anonymous No.17360389]

>>17360383
I leech off my parents.

[Anonymous No.17360426]

>>17348721
Dont forget the peen. it's a cope for tiny peen

[Anonymous No.17360428]

>>17360385
not that anon but go fuck yourself
you people are so fucking privileged, you have no idea who our lives are like, just endless misery and nothingness
easy for you to spout off self improvement bullshit, normal people don't need any of that, they are - born - normal