/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.17476920]

Anybody feel like culture is really boring at the moment? Or am I just getting old?

There is no sense of genuine rebellion or "edge", except for attacking whitey. I can't think of any "underground" / "cult" classics, or any figures in the literary world who are a little wacky and transgressive like Chuck Palahniuk arguably was in the late 90s or whatever. Houellebecq seems to fit the bill but he's like eight years old and replaying themes at the moment about how everything is fucked and the western world is over.

Am I missing out on anything?

Reading John Dolan's 'Pleasant Hell' at the moment.

[Anonymous No.17476937]

Faggot

[Anonymous No.17476960]

>>17476920
>There is no sense of genuine rebellion or "edge", except for attacking whitey.
So it's not genuine because it attacks you and hurts your feeling, gotcha.

[Anonymous No.17476966]

>>17476920
We are the people living in Italy in the days when the artists of the Renaissance were toddlers. A cultural explosion is coming.

[Anonymous No.17476970]

Did you miss the last few news cycles or something? Plenty of fodder for you to start writing some already-outdated transgressive fiction.

[Anonymous No.17476971]

>>17476966
Don’t get my hopes up

[Anonymous No.17476973]

>>17476920
I’d say strains of the alt-right are filling punk’s shoes right now.
Nothing beside that though.

[Anonymous No.17476980]

>>17476966
I wonder how many people took this shitshow of a pandemic as an opportunity to sharpen their craft. It's a massive redistribution of time and energy. Something will come out of it.

[Anonymous No.17476985]

>>17476920
metal/goth/scene fags were the last real counterculture people imo. Nowadays they don't really exist, and the ones that do still repeat the same nonsense.

[Anonymous No.17476986]

>>17476966
Literally this.

[Anonymous No.17476991]

>>17476960
It's just too political and isn't genuinely rebellious considering major corporations are playing the same game.

An example is Ben Lerner's novels, which are considered somewhat edgy and transgressive, but I get the impression that they are just about self-loathing white men articulating why they are terrible people without the nuance that DFW had in doing the same thing without the explicit ethnic shenanigans.

[Anonymous No.17476996]

>>17476937
>>17476960
God damn, some of you really are insufferable.

[Anonymous No.17476998]

>>17476980
No. The problem is not that people don't have enough time/motivation. The problem is that people don't have the talent.

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17477002]

As much as some might not like to admit it, there’s plenty of subcultures, they’re mostly consumed up with products and fandoms. But ignoring those, the whole channer/gamer culture, the “alt right” and the internet youth right, basically all of the communities connected to the right and 4chan would be prime examples of western counter culture, as it’s often against conservativism, liberalism and so forth. With the ending of trump I think we’ll see the youth right on here move again to a new more radical and less voting based right wing movement like we saw developing prior to Trump.

So yeah, you have the major youth factions of radicals on the left and right, you have hardcore racialists both for and against whites, you have entire large sections of the youth addicted to anime culture and fusing it with everything, meme culture is a real thing as cringey as that sounds.

And there’s relevant literature, it’s mostly shit but you need to understand, we are in the process of time. Sure sometimes there’s breakout hits but when something is counterculture or just normal it often will take a long amount of time to filter the crap from the good. Many great authors die without being famous.

So there’s a ton of movements theyre just adapted to the current politics and tech culture.

[Anonymous No.17477008]

>>17476960
>Repeating corporate and media public messaging is rebellious

[Anonymous No.17477011]

>>17476920
Everything is a product. Instead of buying it all just steal it and throw it away.

[Anonymous No.17477014]

There’s just too much

[Anonymous No.17477015]

>>17476998
What is talent? Anyone with inspiration and dedication and the resources of time and money can do anything creative that they so desire. We only see the greatest works of the past because they have been curated that way.

[Anonymous No.17477030]

>>17476920
>counterculture
just childish, pointless bullshit.

[Anonymous No.17477033]

>>17477008
Nobody even looks like this

[Anonymous No.17477034]

>>17476960
That's the thing though, those messages are propagated by mainstream media. There is no edge. These opinions are safe and boring.
I honestly believe that the "alt-right" is more of a counter-cultural movement driven by the youth today and we will see it emerge as a larger movement over the next couple of years.

[Anonymous No.17477037]

>>17477030
Categorizing behavior as being "childish" or "grown up" is characteristic of someone with developmental problems.

[Anonymous No.17477040]

>>17477015
Liberal cringe. Literally not true. Nigger McNiggerson, a second generation negro born to moderate affluence, could afford to purchase fruity loops premium version and make shitty beats to spit his degenerate ghetto poetry to is nothing compared to Mozart who was composing arias before the age of 7.

>>17476966
White pill.

[Anonymous No.17477047]

>>17477034
>unironically "the right is the new punk" posting in 2021
Stop falling for psyops you literal child.

[Anonymous No.17477056]

>>17477015
Many of the greatest artists were recognized in their time. Ulysses was all the rage among the /lit/-types of the time. Where is our Joyce? Not just novelists, but artists in general. Who is our Picasso?

[Anonymous No.17477066]

>>17477047
>falling for pysops
I am fairly detached from all of this. If there is any counter-cultural movement for teenagers it is probably that one. The rest has largely been commodified.

[Anonymous No.17477067]

>>17477047
Isn't there something to this though? I mean, being right-wing today is the quickest way to provoke animosity even if what you are saying is tame by the standards of any decade prior to 2010.

For example, Jim Goad was considered counter-cultural in the 90s for his The Redneck Manifesto (which I've just ordered a copy of).

[Anonymous No.17477069]

>>17477040
>is nothing compared to Mozart who was composing arias before the age of 7
Hardly anyone is comparable to Mozart lmao what an absurd standard, not to mention that he was privileged AF which means he was able to develop his talent at a very early age

[Anonymous No.17477071]

>>17477037
Refusing to acknowledge that some behaviors are typical of young people and generally left behind with age is characteristic of someone who is coping.

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17477075]

>>17477047
Nah the right as a whole isn’t, some elements of the alt right are/were there’s also the further extreme right who wouldn’t be caught dead being called alt right since they’re more extreme.

(Ignoring the history of punk of course) there’s also again, the left wing counter culture stuff and the largest subcultures we have are 100% fandoms, people live eat and breathe their favorite fandoms, some people make their money based entirely on their fandoms, and they’re so massive that we do not see them as anything in particular, they’re invisible as cultural movers but influence and catch so many.

[Anonymous No.17477077]

>>17477037
hippies are childish, metalheads are childish, goths are childish. you are not people, you are slave to trends.

[Anonymous No.17477078]

>>17477047
idk man having a bunch of insulated faggot pearlclutchers on the news calling you insurgents is pretty punk

[Anonymous No.17477081]

>>17477066
>The rest has largely been commodified.
The "alt-right" was literally commodified just like everything else, you utter imbecile.

[Anonymous No.17477085]

>>17477056
>Picasso
>talented

[Anonymous No.17477086]

>>17477056
I'm right here.

[Anonymous No.17477087]

>>17477030
This. Embarrassing thread.

[Anonymous No.17477089]

>>17477071
>>17477077
Yeah man, you're absolutely right. LARPing daily what you pictured as a child was "adult" behavior is totally normal.

[Anonymous No.17477091]

>>17477085
Yes

[Anonymous No.17477092]

You just worry about being judged for your taste.

[Anonymous No.17477093]

I just feel like there’s no culture. Is this just an American feel?

[Anonymous No.17477094]

>>17476920
That's that irony of rebellion as fashion -- if those rebellious ideas succeed, then they become the mainstream. It's the same irony as the Chinese government calling modern revolutionaries "anti-revolutionary".
All those rebellious Western movements from the 1960s onward were simply too successful in transposing their ideas into society. Modern perverts are a thousand times more sexual than anyone in the 1960s sex revolution, but we don't consider them rebellious because they represent the norm, and they only became the norm because of the success of the 1960s sex revolution.

The craziest part is that, now, it's the reactionaries and the so-called "traditionalists" that are rebelling against the modern western traditions of sexual perversion and hedonism. The reactionaries and religious fundamentalists are now the true rebels against the current order.

[Anonymous No.17477095]

>>17477066

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17477096]

>>17477066
I mean kinda, the lighter elements of the alt right were commodified by youtube videos and even stuff like tiktok. Also trump absolutely devoured a ton of them into establishment stuff.

>>17477056
I mean, folks like ashberry, John Crowley, Cormac McCarthy And so forth will probably be remembered. Really depends on the type of literature you’re into, this is partially because other mediums have devoured the place reading used to take. We’re not in the superstar author time period anymore, the most famous they’ll become is Stephen king or Rolling.

[Anonymous No.17477101]

>>17477089
This website hosts adult content. Close your browser and go eat your peas.

[Anonymous No.17477102]

>>17477089
>projection

[Anonymous No.17477103]

>>17476920
There are underground and interesting subcultures, but on the internet now.

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17477104]

>>17477067
Sure but there’s more nuance. There’s a lot of extremes and they all co-mingle.

[Anonymous No.17477111]

>>17477056
You did not live in that time. Stop LARPing and embarrassing yourself.

[Anonymous No.17477112]

>>17477091
Please tell me the talent requi

[Anonymous No.17477113]

>>17477101
>>17477102
>nooooooooo i wear big boy pants now you have to take me serious
cry about it losers

[Anonymous No.17477114]

>>17477094
>tfw contrarian
>tfw condemned to always be on the side of the losers and the maginals who eventually win and turn against me

[Anonymous No.17477115]

>>17477103
Like what? I’d be interested in exploring.

[Anonymous No.17477117]

>>17476920
Yes I feel the same. It’s not that the culture feels boring. It’s that there’s no culture to speak of.

[Anonymous No.17477122]

>>17477040
>are those people of color oh no no no we can't have art now
>>17477056
The point is that not everyone is using these two years to shitpost about how there's nothing to consoom

[Anonymous No.17477124]

>>17477096
All those guys peaked decades ago. There isn't a single living person who isn't old as fuck that we call a great.

[Anonymous No.17477131]

>>17476966
What an absolute fucking cope. This is like back when New York took a nose dive and people were arguing that it will “come back” once it’s cheap and all the “artists” move back in. What fucking artists? This is like cultural free market theory nonsense.

[Anonymous No.17477136]

>>17477040
>this random racist strawman I made up is not comparable to a literal once in a lifetime talent

[Anonymous No.17477138]

>>17477115
Niche imageboards

[Anonymous No.17477145]

>>17477115
LGBTQIA+ Tik Tok HexD drained-out transwave, queercore post-ironic buttrock, /r/chonkers, Chinese streaming services, trap music, A.G. Cook -inspired meta-gothic architecture

[Anonymous No.17477148]

>>17477114
Contrarians are the greatest, because because they expose faults in the mainstream no matter who is running things. Contrarians are the balancers of society.

[Anonymous No.17477150]

>>17477114
>who eventually win
nah man it's always lose

[Anonymous No.17477151]

>>17477069
>lmao
>he was privileged AF
GTFO.

[Anonymous No.17477163]

>>17477145

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17477166]

>>17477124
But they’re still contemporary anon. The fact is, the recent time still has historical figures both dead and living which people will look back to the same way they look back to various other greats. Sure some of them are old but there’s youth, the youth writers are busy being within the subcultures, they’re on Twitter and other sites. We’d call their books cringe before giving them a shot. You know absolutely well that we’d call anything that blows up where people spread things to their followers and groups, cringe and forced and pretentious. That’s just the nature of the beast. It’ll take years before time washes away the filth and we’ll be able to say “ah yes, this work captures the zeitgeist”

Thing is, if they’re young and popular, they’re probably not writing books, and if they are writing books, we’re the ones who would shit on them for their aesthetics and their larp. Because let’s be real, most subcultures and counter cultures have larpy aesthetics.

[Anonymous No.17477171]

>>17477151
Your brand of rightwingism of acting like a retard, posting basedjaks and throwing around slurs like a teenager is as reddit as it gets. You're the one that needs to go back, you're an embarrassment to actually competent rightwingers

[Anonymous No.17477174]

I did. But then I read this masterpiece.

[Anonymous No.17477175]

>>17477069
Mozart was a freed slave

[Anonymous No.17477179]

>>17477171
>basedjak onions onions desu onions basedjak
go back

[Anonymous No.17477183]

>>17477145
The LGBT+ witch movement is legitimately interesting.

[Anonymous No.17477190]

>>17477069
You can say that about anyone successful, retard. If you have half a brain and parents who don't beat you, that's "privilege". If you're not malnourished as a child, you're "privileged". That doesn't mean we shouldn't celebrate the accomplishments of people who achieve great things. Obviously their circumstances led to their achievement -- you think you're a genius for figuring that out?

[Anonymous No.17477196]

>>17477166
>ah yes, this work captures the zeitgeist
That's not the same as a work's being great, and it doesn't mean it's no longer cringe.

[Anonymous No.17477200]

>>17477183
Interesting in the same way the chainsmoking leather daddy community is

[Anonymous No.17477219]

>>17476960
It's not genuine because today's rebellion is not organic, but crafted by corporate and political think tanks in an effort to reinforce the system and status quo i.e BLM, Antifa, etc

[Anonymous No.17477222]

>>17477096
>I mean kinda, the lighter elements of the alt right were commodified by youtube videos and even stuff like tiktok. Also trump absolutely devoured a ton of them into establishment stuff.

Yeah the fact that a "champion of the alt-right" was the president of the US makes this whole notion of counter-culture a little strange. Nonetheless, I can't think of any other political movement that is as vilified in the regular press as this one. The capitol protests were fairly illuminating in how quickly both journalists and companies consolidated to squash the protestors. But those were just a bunch of fatso rednecks, not the youth. The problem is that these alt-rightish groups do not have the arts as allies, as it is usually the case.

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17477225]

>>17477183

It’s really not, as an occultist myself I can tell you the vast majority of the “witches” are purely into it as an edgy aesthetic, gives them an excuse to be edgy and lets them larp as goth girls/boys. It’s really hollow stuff.

>>17477196
I mean again, fair enough but there’s the problem of time filtering and people just not reading books anymore. I mean we’re both on /lit/ we see how people try fighting tooth and nail for a bit of popularity and can’t get anything, and we both know normies don’t care even about the successful writers. By majority unless it’s political or adapted into some big budget movie, the book isn’t going to be that wide spread in the general culture ‘least they have a following already.


The only thing to do is to either try to read contemporary literature and investigate much trying to find treasure among filth, or you can just ignore it, go to literature you know you’ll enjoy and wait for time to filter stuff.

[Anonymous No.17477251]

>>17477225
Again, I'm talking about art in general, not just literature. Also I just realized you have a tripfag, so please remove it or I will not read or respond to whatever else you write.

[Anonymous No.17477264]

>>17477222
Trump wasn't a "champion of the alt-right" he threw them under the bus long before he was even elected and helped push for policies that were to their detriment. Richard Spencer votes democrat lol.

[Anonymous No.17477265]

>>17477008
>>Repeating corporate and media public messaging is rebellious

100% this. Faggos are cucked followers. They don't even know what rebellion is.

[Anonymous No.17477291]

>>17477264
Literal cope. Maybe not on 4chan, but most alt-righters still defend Trump.

[Anonymous No.17477297]

>>17477265
Rebellion is probably trademarked by Disney at this point. 2021 is going to be America's 1968. I hope a lot of armchair theorists have learned something about how power doesn't label itself with flashing lights and has nothing to do with mobilizing enough people to protest something for the sake of being reactively mitigated by their opponents through hormesis.

[Anonymous No.17477304]

>>17477291
Nobody even calls themselves "alt-right" except for feds like Dick Spence. You fell for a media psyop.

[Anonymous No.17477313]

>>17477304
>>17477264
>>17477291
alt-right is fairly ill-defined, but what else are you supposed to call it?

[Anonymous No.17477321]

>>17477313
Nothing. You don't have to call it fuck all because it's just a term used to villainize massive swaths of people who sometimes aren't even related to one another.

[Anonymous No.17477333]

>>17477148
Contrarians hold no values beyond outrage. Their opinions change with the wind.

[Anonymous No.17477336]

>>17477304
Imagine having harnessed all that cybernetic energy and using it to try to be New Coke. They should have just called themselves Real Republicans. Imagine the chaos that would have caused. Imagine how it would have forced all sitting Republicans to either embrace more populist positions or be discredited. Instead they call themselves some stupid neologism which the media ecosystem wrote enough articles about so that it could cross-reference itself enough times to become the authority on what the term meant, which has been neo-nazi since 2016.

[Anonymous No.17477337]

>>17476960
It has the same energy as Hasan Piker doing a "critique of capitalism" modelling shoot wearing 5k worth of designer clothing. It's a safe, recuperated mode of criticism which is not only nonthreatening to power structures, but is actually promoted by and beneficial to them.

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17477338]

>>17477264
I see Trump and Spenser and so forth as the very forces which strived to neutralize the alt right by capitalizing on them and bringing them into a more mainstream system, neutering them into nothing more than conservatives with some extra spice. Again many wouldn’t be caught dead being called alt right any longer.

>>17477313
Radical right, youth right, new-right. Same with the left wing radical youth. Alt right and alt left are just ways to deal with the large groups as a kind of umbrella term, it’s not very accurate but it’s fine.

[Anonymous No.17477346]

>>17476960
does saying nigger hurt your feelings cupcake? I like how you trivialize racist Caucasophobia but you care so much about the orcs.

[Anonymous No.17477347]

>>17477336
That was the point. You think Spencer thought popping off roman salutes was gonna give "the alt right" positive press? It's a fucking 2001 south park bit.

[Anonymous No.17477357]

The west only cares about facismile, the Myanmar coup and uyghur genocide are happening as we speak. Are they talking about it? no.

[Anonymous No.17477363]

>>17476966
WRONG, the fourth turning has to happen before that can happen i.e. WW3 against the Chinese.
Zoomers and Millenials will be used as cannon fodder and then re-build a better world from the ashes that Gen Alpha(boomer 2.0) will inherit and THEN you'll get your cultural boom and the cycle repeats.

[Anonymous No.17477366]

>>17476920
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCgkLICTskQ
watch this lecture if you have the time

[Anonymous No.17477376]

>>17477333
Contrarianism is more of a way of engaging people than an identity. It's like playing devil's advocate for everything and letting others believe you're fully on board with what you're saying. It's healthy and fun as long as you're aware of that.

[Anonymous No.17477404]

>>17477333
Contrarianism is about being tired of hearing the same shit from the same boring faggots beating a dead horse over and over. Hubris begets Nemesis.

[Anonymous No.17477405]

>>17477183
That is so fucking retarded I can't believe I read it with my own two eyes. Is being a witch somehow better if you stick things up your ass? Only an absolute retard mouth breathing niggerbrained normalfaggot would think there's anything interesting about LGBTQXYZ larping as witches. What, do they write "spells" with botched Latin in their notebooks they bought from target? I thought wiccans were the lamest people ever, but wiccans who cornhole themselves exceed my capacity for hatred.

[Anonymous No.17477409]

>>17477347
Yes a bunch of people raised on South Park tried to run a political organization. Then they got the Death to Smoochy treatment.

[Anonymous No.17477421]

>>17477409
What do you even mean by this? I'm talking about the whole schtick where the klan publicly supports some guy so that it tanks his support.

[Anonymous No.17477433]

>>17477421
It's south part because a bunch of irreverant contrarians tried to herd cats and Death to Smoochy is kino for that feel you are describing

[Anonymous No.17477435]

>>17477421
I think he means people like Spencer, Fuentes, Charlie Kirk, and 4chan/reddit dweebs are dipshit frat boy clowns.

[Anonymous No.17477453]

>>17477297
But 1968 was America's 1968.

[Anonymous No.17477474]

>>17477453
I mean in the French pomo sense.

[Anonymous No.17477483]

>>17476960
Pretty much. You niggers built a whole counter-culture around being as moronic and racist as /pol/, real edgy circlejerk you got going.

[Anonymous No.17477486]

>>17477433
>>17477435
Schizo-tier irrelevant, anons.

[Anonymous No.17477500]

>>17477486
What posts are you replying to? They don't show up in this thread.

[Anonymous No.17477526]

>>17477500
He's upset his rebellion was scripted

[Anonymous No.17477570]

>>17477526
I may or may not be upset depending on if I could decrypt what point you were trying to make with your totally disconnected ramblings.

[Anonymous No.17477598]

>>17477570
Are you so young that you weren't witness to the politics of 2016 and have never seen South Park?

[Anonymous No.17477614]

>>17477598
I'm the one who brought up south park in the first place, and I haven't seen any of it since the early 2000s. All I said was that people saw Spencer making roman salutes and took it seriously when they should have remembered that it's a rehash of a 2001 comedy skit being utilized as a psyop.

[Anonymous No.17477619]

>>17476920
>boring
you mispelt moribund

[Anonymous No.17477646]

>>17477614
Ah so we pretty much agree then. It's all a production

[Anonymous No.17477663]

>>17477200
>>17477225
>>17477405
It’s interesting because it shows that spirituality is not completely dead. People still feel the need for a spiritual outlet, but can’t find in it in traditional religion anymore.

[Anonymous No.17477669]

>>17477171
/pol/ and Reddit are simply two poles of the same one continuum of dumbed-down, outrage-obsessed Internet culture. However, it doesn’t change the fact that you need to get to fuck out.

[Anonymous No.17477749]

>>17477190
>you think you're a genius for figuring that out
he thinks he could have been Mozart if his circumstances were different

[Anonymous No.17478260]

>>17477663
I think there's a difference between being spiritual vs believing in magic.
People who believe in magic ate usually after material gains of some kind. Magic is just shitty science by morons who don't understand cause and effect.
Spiritual people want knowledge of the immaterial (even though it's unattainable), and they're often willing to sacrifice material wealth to find it.
Both of these things are stupid, but one is at least noble. Anyway, the point is, gay witches should be burned twice.

[Anonymous No.17478291]

>>17477115
ur literally in one right now retard

[Anonymous No.17478313]

>>17476920
Yes, for a little while now. I only read philosophy, watch old movies and play niche PC games these days.

[Anonymous No.17478321]

>>17477749
I don't think most people can be Mozart even in the best circumstances, but there are probably a decent amount of people who could have been Mozart had they been born in ideal circumstances.

[Anonymous No.17478334]

>>17477081
If you think there's as much expressive capital opportunities for rightoids as leftoids you're delusional.

[Anonymous No.17478342]

what is there to turn upside down if it's all already turned that way?

[Anonymous No.17478347]

Everything is now commodified at the surface level, if you want more than this you have to go deeper and accept a level of relative isolation from most others.

[Anonymous No.17478374]

>>17477749
If he had a better upbringing, better genetics, better parents, a smarter brain and a healthier nervous system, better looks and a better attitude, practically a different person altogether, then maybe he could have been Mozart. Was that his point? If so then he's right.

[Anonymous No.17478389]

>>17478313
What pc games? I'm looking for a new one worth playing.

[Anonymous No.17478396]

lmao imagine not being drained

[Anonymous No.17478402]

>>17478347
This is very true. There are interesting things happening but they're hidden within little niche interest circles within twitter, discord etc. Also a thing I noticed is cultural decentralization because of the internet, its interesting to see young people/zoomers really into weird obscure movies and music and literature and philosophy etc when that used to be the domain only of old dudes in their forties before.

[Anonymous No.17478404]

>>17476920
Harassment Architecture?
but none of them are particularly interesting imo.

[Anonymous No.17478414]

>>17476920
>except for attacking whitey
maybe you are getting bored because you don't realize where the current struggle lays, huh?

[Anonymous No.17478430]

>>17478402
It's true but I'm a zoomer and I've never met other zoomers in the real world who admitted to any remotely obscure interests. I stopped telling people about anything I actually like years ago because the reactions of confusion and discomfort get old. Most people want to establish that they're part of the same community and share commonalities with the people they associate with, so while culture is indeed decentralizing and becoming more diverse, alternate cultures are also withering as the "mainstream" becomes stronger than ever.

[Anonymous No.17478441]

>>17476920
> There is no sense of genuine rebellion or "edge"
Walk into a store without a mask on

[Anonymous No.17478461]

>>17478389
Right now just Battle Brothers and World of Horror while I wait for a whole bunch of games to either release or leave EA, like the new Starship Troopers RTS.

[Anonymous No.17478469]

>>17478396
Based

[Anonymous No.17478511]

>>17478430
The mainstream monoculture is definitely dying off though, even the normies are all watching their own shows. There's no more large scale pop culture events where a movie or TV show comes out and the entire country or even world goes to see it and talks about it (I guess the presidential election/politics is sort of like that but not exactly the same).
>alternate cultures are also withering as the "mainstream" becomes stronger than ever.
There are no more large-scale/publicly visible countercultures yeah. There are smaller niche groups/subcultures around imageboards, discord and some semi-anonymous social media. Also since we're in the internet age time flows a lot faster than before, so ideas and cultures have beginnings, rises and falls all within the span of a few years or even less.

[Anonymous No.17478521]

>>17478441
being a retard and upsetting people isn’t the same as being a genuine rebel or edgy. That’s like saying beating up a pregnant woman is rebellious. Of course I know that you will answer that yes, it is rebellious to beat a pregnant woman, but I know you are being ironic so it doesn’t matter. Insert picture of stick figure saying ‘jokes on them i was only pretending to be retarded’

[Anonymous No.17478524]

>>17478511
Culture is more fragmented, but people tend to consume mainstream or somewhat trendy content nevertheless even with more choice and seeming diversity.

[Anonymous No.17478525]

>>17478511
I'm not really sure if that's the case though. It's not as dominant as it would be if there were no other options, but you see similar things happen with popular netflix shows and shitty meme culture. Social media has a lot of fault for this I think, everything becomes homogeneous fast there.

[Anonymous No.17478527]

>>17476920
Just now realizing this?

[Anonymous No.17478529]

>>17478521
>being a retard and upsetting people isn’t the same as being a genuine rebel or edgy
No, it literally is. This is why no one that isn't either physically or mentally underage cares about "muh rebellion". It literally is exclusively a teenager thing. Kys.

[Anonymous No.17478550]

>>17476920
Subversion is now loved by the mainstream, so it doesn't feel edgy anymore. If you actually enjoy things this isn't a problem. But if you're an edgy pseud who only reads to feel superior I see why this is a problem.
I'd suggest getting laid and getting over yourself, then reading things you actually like. But you probably won't get as many (you)s on /lit/ if you do this.

[Anonymous No.17478559]

The single biggest problem of our time has got to be the extreme overpoliticization of every single little thing and aspect of life.

[Anonymous No.17478571]

>>17477093
It’s a distinctly American feel

[Anonymous No.17478579]

>>17478511
>The mainstream monoculture is definitely dying off though
It definitely isn't and a quick browse of the highest trending tags on Twitter and Instagram will show you how.

[Anonymous No.17478584]

>>17478525
Yes, social media trends kind of enforce a cultural homogenization despite the wider variety of platforms and ability to seek out specific content. People will still often follow whatever is heavily promoted on social media or through memes (like the Tiger King craze for example)

[Anonymous No.17478604]

>>17477614
>>17477646
The Alt-Right movement was funded and organized by Blackwater in order to give america a nazi boogeyman. Look up Jason Jorjani's experiences in the movement.
It's all psyc-ops. Nothing ever happens in the USA.

[Anonymous No.17478606]

>>17477357
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=00Cvx0R8iDo

[Anonymous No.17478609]

>>17478511
>There's no more large scale pop culture events where a movie or TV show comes out and the entire country or even world goes to see it and talks about it
That happened just this last year with Tiger King though.

[Anonymous No.17478645]

>>17478609
True although that was exacerbated because of the COVID lockdowns.

[Anonymous No.17478801]

>>17478604
This is all true. Maybe by like 2100, long after China has gained global dominance, Beijing will fund a coup against the neofeudal overlords. Other than that there’s no real path of resistance.

[Anonymous No.17478832]

>>17478801
Cortes brought down the Aztecs by striking when he had a chance, slaughtering their ruling class, and taking hostages.
It's possible, it would just take a lot luck and courage. It seems like there is some evidence towards the capital siege being a half-assed attempt at a coup by Trump, so I wouldn't be surprised if we see a real coup in the future.

[Anonymous No.17478916]

>>17477081
The alt-right has been commodified in a sense. Instead of being catered to, its is being sold to the public as the great enemy of society. It was the Germans during the great wars, the commies during the cold war, terrorists after that, and now it is the domestic alt right. There is always some great enemy that society is told to fear and that they constantly have to fight.

[Anonymous No.17478917]

>>17476966
no, we're living in the late Roman Republic before the barbarians sack Rome

[Anonymous No.17478931]

The death of possible futures now has different segments of poors all fighting for their own territory of propagandistic mind space. Everything on social media seems like a million voices screaming for attention. Each one is a nail on a chalkboard. I understand why some take a bullet to the head or rope. I just can’t stand this commodified screaming.

[Anonymous No.17478942]

>>17477077
You're retarded. All those things began organically before they were commodified.

[Anonymous No.17478945]

>>17478832
>it would just take a lot luck and courage
Yea it’d take a lot of courage, planning, intelligence, and manpower. None of which the dissident right has. America is the most complacent population to exist. Everyone here is fat and dumb. Hardly anyone can read a book, everyone is hopelessly addicted to their smart phone, everyone is depressed. (I’m guilty of these things too.) Although at times it may seem a revolution is around the corner it’ll only ever be another diversion. For example the Trump “coup”. It was only a thing because the capital was deliberately understaffed. Once the qtards entered the capital they did nothing. There was no attempt to claim the government for themselves. It would have been ludicrous if they did, they would have been overran with ease. There was no coup, it was a reality tv show. And Trump denounced them after anyway. Everything went according to plan. And the result of that plan was justification for the establishment to assume more power.

[Anonymous No.17478959]

>>17476920
>MUH CULTURE
just fuck off with your shitty humanism. there is no history or a culture in the first place. different fucking animals did different things and that's it.

[Anonymous No.17478968]

>>17478931
Yeah. I wish I could just unplug for good and go back into the real world, but that doesn't exist anymore. I used to go to like forty or fifty different websites even ten years ago, now it's like four or five.

[Anonymous No.17478992]

>>17478511
>The mainstream monoculture is definitely dying off though, even the normies are all watching their own shows
What on earth is giving you that idea? Did you miss all the hype around Baby Yoda? Or all the kids who are huge into Fortnite? Game of Thrones, Stranger Things, Animal Crossing, literally all of the Orange Man Bad jokes for the past four years. Social media has exacerbated the mainstream monoculture, not killed it.

[Anonymous No.17478997]

>>17476920
>At the moment
Soon you will understand....

[Anonymous No.17479000]

>>17478916
I’m just wondering when we’ll transition to an explicit one party state. Right now we’re an occulted one party state where the illusion must be maintained that dissent can be expressed through voting and the “marketplace of ideas” But these days the establishment seems quite close to saying, “all dissent will be crushed”, like in that recent Time article.
For the hell of it, I’ll guess this transition is complete by 2030. By then they’ll have psyopped the q-descended right into domestic terrorism which will be used as justification for intense surveillance and control.

[Anonymous No.17479040]

>>17478945
I don't disagree with you, but these things can happen fast and then the rugs pulled out from underneath the whole system.

The issue is that the US is constantly manufacturing fake crises, to keep people in a perpetual state of hopelessness and anxiety. They are also extremely adapt at demoralization tactics and weaponizing emotions like envy, shame, greed, etc. Look at how media immediately scrutinizes and belittles the sex life of people like Trump or promotes propaganda about 'incels' once they start causing a stir, nobody wants to be made fun of or have their life scrutinized (except for the 1% who are groomed for their roles and keep all degeneracy within secret orgies), so they keep their head down.

In my opinion there are two ways in which revolution are possible. The first is a slow bleed. Form decentralized fraternity groups. See how antifa, Islamist militants, and the ALN organized, a web of loosely associated cells to assure that subversion is kept to a minimum. Then attack infrastructure projects and target politicians/wealthy business owners for political assassination. This has a double effect: The first is that it costs a lot of money, a road being blown up in the middle of the night could potentially cause tens of thousands in damages once delays are factored in. The second effect is to create a psychology of paranoia among the ruling class, so that they panic and enact measures which radicalize more people against them. This should be combined with planted evidence and false flags, to bait law enforcement into targeting radical adjacent organizations-- environmental groups, minorities, far right militias, communists, etc.

The second is a sudden strike at the jugular, basically storm government with a vanguard and do like Cortes. If you can wipe out the top 100 people in America with a sudden strike, the rest of the ruling class is thrown into an internal power struggle and working blind. This is of course almost certainly a suicide mission, and might end with Americans rallying behind a new totalitarian force, but it could potentially send the whole house of cards tumbling down.

Obviously you should not under any circumstances seriously consider such things, but that's how I see potential threats to the American empire gaining traction and getting results. Asymmetric warfare is the only warfare that makes sense in this situation. Have you considered leaving the country? There are lots of places in the world that aren't run like a fascistic insane asylum.

[Anonymous No.17479060]

>>17479000
It will never happen. False dialectics allow for the State to force people into complacency, and most politicians are not properly a part of the ruling elite. If America was a one party state it would allow for populist sentiment to organize around them as a concrete entity. Party democracy allows a false illusion of choice and turns guilt on collective demographics as opposed to single politicians. Media has for years excluded any third parties from meaningful participation, even if the Republican party collapses you can expect another controlled opposition party to spring up within a year.

[Anonymous No.17479066]

This global world order shit is depressing, at least in the past you knew who your all powerful rulers were.

[Anonymous No.17479082]

>>17479000
I think there is always going to be two parties arguing over their increasingly small differences, even if they are different in name only. Simply having two options to pick from is enough to convince most people that they have full control over their own lives. I'm not saying that things were intentionally set up this way to deceive people, just that because people believe in it so greatly, it will never go away in name.

[Anonymous No.17479145]

>>17476920
I'm sure there is genuinely good stuff out taking shape but it's currently being drowned out by the media, politics and pop culture. Unfortunately the average person is less removed from monkeys than we would like to believe and they're going to gravitate towards lower quality things that ask less of them and cater to their base desires.

The advent of social media and the wide spread of smart phones has resulted in a torrent of information that sprays low quality shit all over people. I believe people aren't searching out the truly best creations and culture on offer because they are being distracted by tiktok videos, endless news feed scrolling, etc. I think we will see a pushback against information overload becoming a counterculture in its own right this decade with a dream of returning to something closer to an 80's/90's style of human interaction.

The true cultural creations taking form are deep down the rabbit hole of their respective genres. You need to search for them to be rewarded. For everyone mainstream creator there is a least one barely person breaking new ground that know one will know about because not enough people have found them or even been born yet that will appreciate what they are doing. We can see this in many figures who weren't even recognized until after their death. I'm not really sure where I was going with this post, but whatever. Go find something new that excites you.

[Anonymous No.17479148]

>>17478291
hahahaha oh nononono AHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA
say it again that was so dumb, please
AHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Anonymous No.17479182]

Culture is anything but boring. We’re drowning in our own shit as society and that gives me a boner.

Look at the shit people write, like actual people, not the pretentious literary types - its full of impending doom. If thats not exciting I dunno what is.

https://solaire.substack.com/p/personal-memoirs-of-a-silicon-valley-dbe

[Anonymous No.17479195]

This book is edgy considering our current culture around race/race relations. It's black (negro) humor done well

[Anonymous No.17479281]

>>17479195
Yeah, that's a lovely book. A bit too sneaky in its methods to gain mass approval though.

[Anonymous No.17479284]

>>17479182
Not everyone is a scat fetishist

[Anonymous No.17479286]

>>17479060
>>17479082
Good points, I guess we’ll see

[Anonymous No.17479292]

>>17478959
some worked better at creating effective societies than others m8. Some created things and did things that inspire lots of other animals, and makes them want to be less animalistic in pursuit of truth and further achievement.

[Anonymous No.17479325]

>>17477094
>>17476960

CONSERVATISM, THE NUCLEAR FAMILY AND CLASSIC RELIGIOUS BELIEFS ARE PUNK NOW MOTHERFUCKERS

Fuck DIY Aesthetics, we be wearing classy tailored tuxedos and expensive D&G shoes while imposing our MASSIVE testosterone on them Onionss and Trannies!

WE ARE THE COOL GUYS NOW

[Anonymous No.17479361]

>>17477056

Who will be our Jimi Hendrix?
Who will be our next Tolkien? Next Dante Aligheri?
Who will be our next Sean Connery?
Who will be our next Leonardo?

I'd appreciate a new Kurt Cobain as well, minus the part where he kills himself at 27.

[Anonymous No.17479367]

>>17479292
yes some "worked better" but then those societies fell. the fall of societies is inevitable. it is idiotic to think that current civilisation is death free.
everything is a slave of entropy.

[Anonymous No.17479378]

>>17478917
This.
I smell only decline and dark ages ahead.

[Anonymous No.17479395]

>>17479361
When you incluide people like Hendrix and Cobain in the same post as Da Vinci and Dante like this, you are part of the problem.

[Anonymous No.17479399]

AI that can create or greatly enhance fiction will lead to a massive culture shift. If you're bored right now, take the weebpill

[Anonymous No.17479405]

>>17479395
you're a faggot my man.

[Anonymous No.17479411]

Stop watching tv so much

[Anonymous No.17479412]

>>17476920
It's not culture that's "boring", you're just too desensitised because you're on 4chan observing the scum of humanity everyday

[Anonymous No.17479417]

>>17479412
4chan poster doesn't exist in a vacuum you dumb fucking whore.

[Anonymous No.17479422]

>>17479417
When did I say "4chan exists in a vacuum" you smoothbrain

[Anonymous No.17479527]

>>17477093
My fellow Americans generally tend to think that everything that is foreign or isn't American is culture, and ironically our media and culture enforce this idea.
I think Americans feel that way because we are at peak cultural stimulation here.

America has a lot of culture, too much culture (and "culture") that we are flooded with information and our compasses are broken. This also applies generally to the amount of stimulation (information) that human societies in 2020 get which is exacerbated by technology. Too much to know.

It's also difficult to see culture when you "live" it.
"Culture" in a very broad sense includes
>what you did when you woke up, what you didn't do when you woke up, and when you woke up
>what you ate or didn't eat, what you did with the rest of your morning
>where you went to work or if you went to work, what you did at work and how you did it
>what you do in your downtime
>who you live with and why
And on and on...

[Anonymous No.17479536]

>>17479422
you are acting like the scum doesn't exist outside of 4chan you dumb fucking whore.

[Anonymous No.17479541]

Nah it's just a cultural dark age. If you knew history, you'd realise it.

[Anonymous No.17479556]

>>17479405
He's right. It's like calling McDonalds great cuisine just because it's popular.

[Anonymous No.17479570]

>>17479556
>implying da Vinci isn't McDonalds

[Anonymous No.17479578]

>>17479527
We have quantity, but not quality.

[Anonymous No.17479580]

>>17479541
Our culture has become dominated by the American negro and the negros have degraded into pure savagery with their crude rap twerking music.

[Anonymous No.17479581]

>>17479570
Da Vinci is like prime steak. It's expensive, it's luxurious, poorfags can't afford it, and they'd rather eat a hamburger anyway.

[Anonymous No.17479588]

>>17479580
>negroes have degraded
implying they were ever in a better state

[Anonymous No.17479596]

>>17479588
They were at least respectable in the jazz or doo wop r&b eras. They'd wear suits and conform somewhat to the Western culture. Now the music is based around sampled loops and profane lyrics about banal subject matter.

[Anonymous No.17479608]

>>17479596
Unironically the civil rights movement ruined the american negro

[Anonymous No.17479609]

>>17479581
you're a faggot, he is the McDonalds of upper class. it look luxurious to poorfaggots like you

[Anonymous No.17479610]

>>17479596
>jazz
>respectable
read adorno

[Anonymous No.17479614]

>>17479609
then who's the steak of the upper class?

[Anonymous No.17479634]

>>17479614
your mom

[Anonymous No.17479636]

>>17479412
This.
If every cultural movement in history would have been immediately categorized with terms like based/cringe and ridiculed with söyjak edits, people wouldn't have been inspired by them either.

[Anonymous No.17479637]

>>17479610
I'd take it over what we have now any day

[Anonymous No.17479638]

>>17479634
take it back

[Anonymous No.17479700]

>>17479578
What would quality culture be?
Do you mean specifically in art, music, and entertainment?

[Anonymous No.17479726]

>>17476920
What culture

[Anonymous No.17479739]

>>17477145
i really hope you're joking
what a load of trite

[Anonymous No.17479741]

>>17479726
this and not ironically.

[tortured fool No.17479775]

>>17476920
You're a rebel if you recognize that attacking whitey isn't a rebellion.

[Anonymous No.17479789]

>>17477145
>>17477183
how shallow do you have to be to find this garbage "interesting"

[Anonymous No.17479853]

>>17476960
>So it's not genuine because it attacks you and hurts your feeling, gotcha.
Yes, because it requires that we destroy it.

[Anonymous No.17479869]

>>17479040
>I don't disagree with you, but these things can happen fast and then the rugs pulled out from underneath the whole system.

Please stop glowing so god damned hard.

[Anonymous No.17480080]

>>17479869
You're right, we should exchange emails.

[Anonymous No.17480113]

>>17476920
not attacking whitey and rejecting the bs you're describing seems pretty edgy and underground

[Anonymous No.17480145]

>>17477145
Based and rympilled

[Anonymous No.17480167]

>>17476920
Ignore the other fags in this thread, they're all wrong
The world is boring because we are experiencing a massive population implosion, birth rates are down all over the world and there simply aren't enough young people to create or consume anything
It's all related to demographics, boomer counter culture was a thing because of a population increase

[Anonymous No.17480354]

>>17476920
Culture nowadays, is social media, live streams, obscure bloggers, etc.
No it isn't boring, you're just not part of the underground culture;

[Anonymous No.17480388]

>>17476920
You're just out of the loop. People just threw their life savings into a stock just out of defiance.

Granted, it turned into a cringy "THIS IS A CRUSADE FOR THE SMALL GUY" eventually, but until that it was pretty edgy. Kinda fight club esque.

[Anonymous No.17480534]

>>17476966
5 more days. Trust the plan.

[Anonymous No.17480543]

>>17479395
You are a man child.

[Anonymous No.17480797]

>>17476920
>Anybody feel like culture is really boring at the moment?
Culture is literally the most interesting its ever been. Massive corruption, massive polarization and unrest, every commercial, article, and product is partial or all propaganda. And ALL OF IT flies under the radar of the average person.
>There is no sense of genuine rebellion or "edge", except for attacking whitey.
Did it ever occur to you that the people 'attacking whitey' are all the major mainstream media outlets, Banks, Big corporations, Universities, and leftist activist groups? Doesn't that seem off to you? The rebellion or edge might be, just MAYBE defending whitey. What a crazy idea.

[Anonymous No.17480941]

>>17477363
>go to war with china
>every walmart in america no longer has any goods
Given that the bread and butter fighting force of the usa, white scots-irish mutts from the south love walmart, morale will be pretty fucked. it sounds funny but im not kidding, the citizens wont have a taste for it. Combine that with the fact that China has an actualy society and a government attempting to secure chinese interests whereas America changes regimes every four years and is mostly concerned with distribitung coca cola to africans and jungle gooks. War with china would be a tremendous humiliation for the USA.

[Anonymous No.17480957]

>>17477047
They are the ones transgressing against the established narrative and morals.
That is pretty punk, no?

[Anonymous No.17481905]

>>17478968
The monopolization of the internet has been it's death. I have hundreds of bookmarks but they are all for information, not for interaction. I found a thread on bunkerchan the other day that had a long list of all the old "alternative" chans 7, 711, 420 etc. and they are all so dead. I hate it. Where did all the cool people from here go? Did they get a job and a family doing white hat bullshit and now they don't post? Did they move to secret chat groups that no longer have a web address? Where IS EVERYONE?

[Anonymous No.17481940]

>>17476960

[Anonymous No.17482064]

>>17476920
John Dolan hasn't been surpassed. 'The Problem is How to Thank' is great, and will help put your feelings in perspective.

[Anonymous No.17482105]

>>17476920
>There is no sense of genuine rebellion or "edge", except for attacking white.

What rock have you been living under, you self-pitying piece of shit ?

[Anonymous No.17482184]

>>17482105
What do you think is rebellious these days exactly?

[Anonymous No.17482228]

>>17477069
That's the point - its people who are outstanding that we should look up to.

There are plenty of people in the same boat - privileged and with the opportunity to pursue and hone their craft, but many just piss it away or shoot it into their veins.

Talent is two parts nature and 1 part the amount of effort you're willing to put into it. Mozart was likely endowed with a gifted ear and melodic memory (this is the guy who in his early teens was able to memorise Misere Mei and upon arriving home transcribe it). He used his talent and applied it to create some of the best pieces of art heard ever.

That's not to say that a 'regular' person cannot create pieces of art of similar merit, just that it's less likely if they haven't been endowed with the same or similar gifts.

>>17477122
>People of colour.
Filtered. For the record, I admire artwork from Africa - its aesthetically different and based upon alien and interesting spiritual stories. But it's undeniable that a sculpture made by one of the greats is superior in aesthetics and technicality to a mud-clay statue of the half-monkey god or whatever.

>>17477136
Yes - it's once in a lifetime talent that we should be looking up to. If everyone could create at the same level of a Mozart then it would be pointless to taxonomise great pieces of work into a canon.

[Anonymous No.17482296]

>>17476980
all the rich suburbanites take the time to make meaningless vagina/man-bad art while any possible innovation is stifled by the fact that any decent artists are likely bankrupt right now as a result of the pandemic

[Jesus No.17482304]

>>17476920
ahaha, google behavioral sink. but now since civilization is hitting the wall, people wake up and realize there's nothing more to invent, innovation, explore, research. except for humans body and psychedelics, of course. live moar, faggots.

[Anonymous No.17482533]

>>17476920
I think the world's ripe for a back-to-the-land movement, returning to monke seems to be the buzzing of the day, leave society and concrete boxes to the flies + vines. Just see how Kaczynski's raised up on a pedestal now, I predict we'll see a whole lot of new short-lived new-society commune-farms that will die quickly in an inferno of debate and heartbreak but will in the meantime produce some interesting work. I love the italian futurists but even I admit that technology has made itself *very* unpopular

[Anonymous No.17482546]

This whole thread is about Americans arguing over the potency of the farts they've been huffing for the past 70 years. I can't wait for the Chinese man, I can't fucking wait. China is cultureless, sure, but maybe the rest of the world could get a fresh start when this mountain of shit disappears from the world.

[Anonymous No.17482641]

>>17477056
You will take the corporation approved anti-establishment activist and you will like it! And you will own nothing and you will be happy.

[Anonymous No.17482661]

>>17480941
The war over Taiwan will either be the end of America, or its turn around. We're absolutely going to lose, but the question is: where do we go from there? We either fracture and break apart completely, or embrace Caesar.

[Anonymous No.17482677]

>>17482546
>China is cultureless, sure
No it isn't, why do people keep thinking that?

[Anonymous No.17482702]

>>17482677
China is still fairly bound down by traditional culture, its still nothing like the USA wherein every idea is prefaced by "new"

[Anonymous No.17482740]

>>17482702
>China is still fairly bound down by traditional culture
Yeah exactly, tons of their traditions, customs, beliefs, values etc go back thousands of years. Do people really think maoism just uprooted and threw away every single thing from the previous five thousand years of history or what

[Anonymous No.17482775]

>>17482740
Exactly, if anything they're trending towards how Japan is- with great efficiency and technocracy but with weird stragglings of feudal culture (bullet trains dash across the plains at inhuman speeds but office workers stay late to show "devotion")

[Anonymous No.17482842]

>>17476920
JUST LET ME MAKE EDGY STATEMENTS IN PUBLIC AGAIN WITHOUT PERMANANT CRUCIFIXION PLEASE FUCKKKKKKKKKK IM TIRED OF NORMIES BEING SUCH PUSSIESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

[Anonymous No.17482915]

Incels are the only genuine counterculture, being the last group actually despised by the mainstream. They follow the path of previous countercultures even to the point that cultural aspects of incels (and the redpill/MRA, their spiritual forbearers) have been so popular have adopted by normies- things like the incel/chad dichotomy, as well complaining about modern males/females and the state of relationships, in the vein of incels is very common from places like Reddit to normie zoomers on tiktok and Instagram, to the point where it's almost a gender war. Furthermore because of the social ostracism of its creators as fans. Incelcore is the last truly edgy music. I say this as someone who despises incels.

[Anonymous No.17482926]

>>17482915
What is incelcore? Do I even want to know

[Anonymous No.17483127]

>>17477047
It's true though. Late 20th century US progressive liberalism holds the commanding heights of the culture and has become almost a religion, the alt right are the modern heretics. They're the ones saying and doing shit that makes the media , corporations, the bourgeois and polite society generally have an aneurysm.

[Anonymous No.17483185]

>>17480167
I hate to ask this but i'm actually curious as to what your talking about, show me some proofs?

[Anonymous No.17483187]

>>17478521
Not wearing mask makes (((media))) seethe, so that is all I need to know it is rebellious.

[Anonymous No.17483523]

>>17476920
>There is no sense of genuine rebellion or "edge", except for attacking whitey. I can't think of any "underground" / "cult" classics, or any figures in the literary world who are a little wacky and transgressive like Chuck Palahniuk arguably was in the late 90s or whatever
everything is co-opted so quick and given air via reddit and other social media that all authenticity and honesty is removed from anything before it can organically become "cult".
people are so desperate to look cool they jump on the suggestion of the next great X and it becomes tomorrow's chip wrappers

[Anonymous No.17483607]

>>17483523
Agree.
I'm old and I've seen an acceleration of subcultural "turn-over" (ie coolness > posers appear > subculture commodifies and mutates into low-quality LARP). It used to take a decade for something to really get played out and dumbed-down, now it seems to happen so fast that anything new is preemptively mocked and ironically engaged with before it even takes off. The cultural world is becoming mush. It's not all bad though, ever subculture is founded on lies, pretending to be meaningful when it really is not. I'm hoping that this leads to a situation where everyone sees through bullshit LARPs before they even begin, and stove kind of sturdy combination of traditional and nihilistic worleview takes over. Really all that matters in life is being good to your friends and family. Not cool, not edgy, but it's the end conclusion of every healthy person that grows out of edgy subcultural swamplife anyways.

[Anonymous No.17483640]

>>17476920
It is because nobody wears hats anymore.

[Anonymous No.17483820]

>>17482740
Not everything but it certainly destroyed a lot of it or at the very least took a lot of the substance out of it. They still have traditions but so do we, they are in the process of cultural degradation. Naturally those in the country are more in tune with "culture" than the ones living in cities

[Anonymous No.17483864]

you just stopped looking very far OP

[Anonymous No.17483872]

>>17483640
we're a no-hat, no-gloves, society and all the worse for it.

[Anonymous No.17483973]

>>17478521
I think that anon was right.

Going into stores without a mask in some parts of the world could be considered rebellious. It is in no way comparable to beating a pregnant woman. This virus is only a little more deadly than the flu for anyone that isn't old, disabled, or infirm, and yet all the young people are expected to quarantine and put their social lives on hold for this virus.
Your reaction alone to this anon's post shows that it is rebellious. Your comparison is hyperbolic.

[Anonymous No.17484015]

We are reaching the logical endpoint of consumer based cultural practices. Passivity + endless creation of products what's always bred this phenomenon you're talking about, but due to certain constraints on the conditions for wide distribution and creation tools these tendencies were reined back for a while. Every subculture is a lie waiting to be found, a transitory delusional state one tries to stretch for as long as one's able to before finally exploding into an expanding smoke of disappointment. I'm really sorry, Anon, but we're living at the end times of the type of culture created in the XIX century and fully explored during the XX century.

[Anonymous No.17484021]

>>17478550
>>17478559
This makes me think of that joke about not being able to rebel against liberal parents
Some people in this thread think traditionalism is a set up larp but it seems to me like actual counterculture at the moment would be some sort of eschewment of social media and internet, and a return to hard traditional values that do their best to exist outside the "system" most of of live in
So, maybe the Amish are counterculture? lol

[Anonymous No.17484028]

>>17484015
Was culture ever not a lie? What would make it real?

[Anonymous No.17484248]

>>17484021
Exactly what I was saying. "Return to monke" is very countercultural, and it can't truly become commodified because of its inherrent anti-consumerism. We'll be seeing back-to-the-land movements in the 2020s

[Anonymous No.17484264]

>>17477145
based

[Anonymous No.17484280]

>>17484028
It's real and based if it happened before I was born
It's fake and cringe when I'm alive during it

[Anonymous No.17484343]

>>17476920
We've existed for too long, OP. Too many things have become "Meta". We have kind of seen it all in a sense. Gone through the same interactions for so many generations. Our only way of coping is topping one another on how many layers of irony we're on.

[Anonymous No.17484404]

>>17484248
>back-to-the-land movements in the 2020s
I think this is possible too. Environmentalism for most of us is commodified. Maybe the end game is small and rural agrarian communities.
>tfw no comfy country life in a small town with people that have trades and shops and farms instead of the WALMART

Maybe OP just can't see the counterculture because the counterculture isn't online. The counterculture is in rejecting the internet entirely

[Anonymous No.17484817]

>>17484343
This but unironically.

[Anonymous No.17484837]

>>17484248
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wandervogel
will this come back?

[Anonymous No.17485408]

>>17479040
>>17479869
I think irony is a coping mechanism for some of you. If you never show your true thoughts, you can never be wrong, and you can never be ridiculed. You never have to admit your people and culture are dying, and you never have to try and help.
Everyone here hates stormfags, but at least they're sincere.

[Anonymous No.17485473]

>>17483973
based

[Anonymous No.17485493]

>>17485408
Being sincere is a shield to cover up your irony actually

[Anonymous No.17485497]

>>17485493
Damn......

[Anonymous No.17485636]

>>17485493
Yes, I must have shown some ignorance without realizing. I am very silly.

[EffortPoster !!OJEzZBm19N2 No.17485872]

>>17477071
Being left behind with age is not necessarily indicative of a quality being negative. Ambition, passion, and a strong sense of justice are behaviors "typical of young people and generally left behind with age." Any counterculture is filled with young people because young people still retain a hope of effecting positive change.

[Anonymous No.17485977]

>>17477066
no the alt right has failed. zoomers today have no actual window for expression. alt right was always just reaction to progressivism and thus depedent on it, and a reaction by millennials to millennial culture. Zoomers have been failed at every opportunity by their education, their families, their state, their politics, the economy: everything. Imagine growing up over the course of three economic crisis from dot com to corona, imagine seeing a lose collection of internet personalities, a few anons online and the infinite free world of piracy do a better job at education than the school, imagine seeing the free expression advertised in university fail to reading books and thinking critically, imagine seeing everyone as conservative fools, imagine losing belief in everything but not accepting this loss akin to anarchists but believing in change and conflict and challenging everything at every opportunity: that's the zoomer, the further greatest generation.
We will see a change of the maginitude similar to the 30s and 40s where the old system triumphed, what was teased in the 70s and extinguished in the 90s, we will see a new flame burn and rise. I don't know what it is, but it will be something entirely new. by 2050 we will live in a world alien to us all now.

[Anonymous No.17485985]

>>17485977
The altrighters tried to fight against the system by pretty much occupying the cliches that they created, and using their own devices. It was a fucking joke.

[Anonymous No.17486019]

>>17476920
>Am I missing out on anything?
Genuine spiritual aspirants are the new counter culture. Everything else is just a variation on the theme of myopic secularism of this recent passing age.

The new counter culture belong to the new age -- the Age of Aquarius. It is a spiritual revolt, and its revolutionaries are spiritual in nature.

[Anonymous No.17486020]

>>17484248
>>17484404
I've already begun for some years preparing for this "return to monke" and the only hurdle I've yet to overcome is the communal one. How can I find a wife, or even friends, if I buy a 20 acre plot of land in the rural countryside?

[Anonymous No.17486063]

>>17485977
>by 2050 we will live in a world alien to us all now
wow anon. its almost like 2000 was completely different from 1950, which was completely different from 1900, and then 1850, and then...

[Anonymous No.17486127]

>>17485408
Right haha, irony.
I guess if I had to be honest with you what we need is more grassroots movements fielding left-of center candidates. We barely saved democracy with Biden as it is, can't take any more chances.
If we could somehow get another Obama in office I sincerely believe that would change everything. Only if they're re-elected that is.
Slow incremental change working within the system. Yep. That'll save us.

[Anonymous No.17486161]

>>17486020
I've dreamed about making a community lol
It's not as easy anymore to just tell the government you're gonna settle on a piece of land and make a town.
I would like a community too but I don't want religious nuts and I don't want to end up like Waco cause the government really doesn't want people doing that thing anymore...

[Anonymous No.17486182]

>>17486020
(I am >>17486161)
And as for meeting people I have no idea, but I can tell you that they are out there. I also know women that would love to be stay at home moms. Maybe I can take them all with me to my comfy rural compound and spread my seed but I will have to do it via turkey baster because I am homosexual kek

[Anonymous No.17486323]

>>17477047
Neocons and braindead evangelical burgers are obviously not punk, but since dissident "right-wing extremism" is literally the only political position that has any real chance to get you in trouble in countries where the liberal status quo reigns, it logically follows that political positions that don't have such an effect are necessarily less punk than the dissident right.

[Anonymous No.17486337]

>>17486323
This obviously is only true when one accounts for the fact that what's right-wing and left-wing has all but broken down completely, for the record.

[Anonymous No.17486513]

>>17476985
There's never been a counterculture since the 60's
Every "counter" culture movement since then was not a threat to the status quo and simply got commodified for profits. Remember Hot Topic?

[Anonymous No.17486543]

>>17486127
I thought he was being insincere. I'd like nothing better than the guillotine to come out.

[Anonymous No.17486573]

>>17477183
>>17477145
>witches interesting
>anything that has a fucking subgenre label interesting

You "people" are soulless husks and you don't even realize it.

[Anonymous No.17486592]

>>17486513
Yep, those were subcultures, they never had any intention of *replacing* the system, just living within it

[Anonymous No.17486623]

>>17486323
I dunno, I think actual for-real communists/anarchists/libertarians who really try to break away from the system are still fairly despised, its just that there aren't many of them. Not to mention any of the less mainstream positions

[Anonymous No.17486649]

>>17486623
>communists/anarchists/libertarians

Wholly, completely absorbed into the system.

[Anonymous No.17486670]

>>17486649
I really don't see how chaos gutter punks who spend all their time chasing chemicals are "part of the system."

[Anonymous No.17486678]

>>17486670
I really don't see how "chaos gutter punks who case drugs" are really any different than some wagie who does drugs on their free time. They are both impotent and irrelevant.

[Anonymous No.17486680]

>>17486649
Their "cultural" agenda, perhaps, but last I checked
* The US has a government
* It isn't Marxist-Leninist
* It taxes people and enforces regulations past the bare minimum
Its just that all the folks with vision died out decades ago and all that remain are LGBTQIAC++ twitter liberals trying on a few extra slogans while they guzzle antidepressants and play animal crossing on their brand new Nintendo(tm) Switch

[Anonymous No.17486716]

>>17486063
Changes have long been accelerating, though. 1650 wasn't that different from 1750, but look at the differences between 1920 and 1970 (of course, the differences between '70 and today are fairly little outside of computers... we should be in the Andromeda system by now)

[Anonymous No.17486738]

>>17486716
>the differences between '70 and today are fairly little outside of computers
Is that really true though? My parents who grew up in the 60s and 70s seem to think it's pretty different now

[Anonymous No.17486746]

>>17486716
>the differences between '70 and today are fairly little outside of computers

The entire west went from more or less well-functioning and top tier to barely functional hellholes that are an economic crisis away from breaking down completely, I'd say that's quite the development. Although I figure you meant technological progress primarily, in which case the advent of computers and the internet changed everything to such a large degree that it would be careless to write it off as just "computers becoming a ubiquitous thing", like it wasn't something almost on par with the industrial revolution in terms of impacting basically everything under the sun.

[Anonymous No.17486765]

>>17476920
>There is no sense of genuine rebellion or "edge"
That's just the biological imperative for the young to separate from their parents, which is manifests as exaggerated self-expression. That's why teenagers are so fucking edgy, and then mellow out once they have true independence. Thanks to the internet, most of it takes place on the internet, now.
Millennials have furries, otherkin and radical feminists.
GenZ just discovered reality shifting. I'm really excited what they'll think of next.Shit is about to get really fucking crazy.

[Anonymous No.17486782]

>>17476920 (OP)
>There is no sense of genuine rebellion or "edge"
That's just the biological imperative for the young to separate from their parents, which is manifests as exaggerated self-expression. That's why teenagers are so fucking edgy, and then mellow out once they have true independence. Thanks to the internet, most of it takes place on the internet, now.
Millennials have furries, otherkin, radical feminists and incels.
GenZ just discovered reality shifting. I'm really excited what they'll think of next.Shit is about to get really fucking crazy.

[Anonymous No.17486788]

>>17486670
>I really don't see how chaos gutter punks who spend all their time chasing chemicals are "part of the system."
They're basically chemically dependent on the system at that point, aren't they? I mean, if it wasn't for supply chains with all kinds of shady international connections, connecting laboratories to international human traffickers to corrupt governments to urban crime to systems of ingrained poverty right into a junkies veins he or she could potentially die from the chemical dependency.
I guess if you define the system as poor people going to church and having families, then sure, they aren't part of the system, but don't you feel you're just a self important naval gazer at that point?

[Anonymous No.17486799]

>>17486746
>The entire west went from more or less well-functioning and top tier to barely functional hellholes that are an economic crisis away from breaking down completely
Three things that certainly caused this:

1. The idea that fat and animal fats are bad. Which caused the obesity epidemic and droped the average IQ.

2. The porn epidemic, which means most men lack vital nutrient and have a lower anount of testosterone and both genders suffer from dopamine overload.

3. Now solved but still a problem, lead in paint and gasoline.

[Anonymous No.17486800]

>>17486782
>That's why teenagers are so fucking edgy

What about people who for one reason or another never had the opportunity to be edgy and "act out"?

[Anonymous No.17486807]

>>17476920
Thesis: Leftism, Bernie, Antifa
Antithesis: Nationalism, Trump, Qanon
Synthesis: American Nazbol Gang

[Anonymous No.17486829]

>>17486800
It lies dormant, then reemerges later, which is why you get edgy adults. 90% of them had/have a dysfunctional relationship with their parents.

[Anonymous No.17486853]

>>17486829
>edgy adults

Like, proper extremists, or just people who are ill-tempered?

[Anonymous No.17486856]

Culture has been stuck since at least 2005.

[Anonymous No.17486861]

>>17486853
Depends on the person/level of dysfunction.

[Anonymous No.17486862]

>>17479395

Well, I like all of them. I don't consider them to be direct equivalents in any way but they still really awesome people in my book and their really god-tier on my pedestal.

So yeah, fuck you, faggot. Go shove it.

[Anonymous No.17486871]

>>17486782
I mean, you have to admit, the furried, rad-fems, incels, "reality shifters", etc, are nothing like the semi-revolution of the boomers

[Anonymous No.17486922]

>>17486871
Yes, that's because every gen has to one-up the older generation, by virtue of normalization. If it's normal, it's not edgy anymore. For example, when every man has short hair, long hair is edgy. Then they grow up, and long hair isn't edgy anymore. So the kids have to come up with something else, like mohawks.

[Anonymous No.17486931]

>>17476980
no buddy its 2020 all that happened was a shitload of divorces

[Anonymous No.17486940]

face it: the internet killed culture

[Anonymous No.17486950]

>>17476920
Culture is genetic. Can't have culture in non-homogeneous countries.

[Anonymous No.17486958]

>>17486940
This is a good thing. All cultures are satanic because they're based on mythology (lies).

[Anonymous No.17486960]

>>17486950
culture's a spook.

[Anonymous No.17486980]

>>17486922
I mean in terms of impact, in terms of goals. Sure they were probably bound to fail in their idealism no matter what, but the hippies were trying for something, man, they actually put their lives into the movement, founded communes, tried to build a better, or at least a different, world. Look at Woodstock and Woodstock '99

[Anonymous No.17487018]

Someone explain this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hx8giD2Pw4E&list=LL&index=64&t=249s [Embed]

A live set under lockdown with a link in the bio to a website where you can donate to black trans people in need of food.
The performer comes off as incredible ironic, while advertising serious matter (serious matter for him, since he's trans himself).

[Anonymous No.17487042]

>>17487018
it's drag queen party culture. what's not to get?

[Anonymous No.17487206]

>>17487042
It's xyz, what's not to get?
I don't get that you can be ironic while conveying your beliefs. This is a contradiction, so there's something i'm missing. Perhaps the performer is being trans ironically?

[Anonymous No.17487211]

>>17486950
>Can't have culture in non-homogeneous countries constituted by acultural peoples.

FTFY. Cross-cultural interaction can be interesting (China-Japan, Hellenism-India, Persia-Europe) but cross-pollination worth anything takes two to tango.

[Anonymous No.17487218]

>>17487206
i'm not reading any irony in this person's performance. i think you're misinterpreting signals.

[Anonymous No.17487305]

>>17476966
No, we're either on the cusp of the advent of a second caesar establishing dominion over a weak and disharmonious republic, or just set for a steady decline towards oblivion like the WRE was in the 3rd century, only with brown and black people this time instead of germanic tribes.

[Anonymous No.17487318]

>>17487312
yeah...

[Anonymous No.17487323]

>>17487305
>we're either on the cusp of the advent of a second caesar establishing dominion
The world is now run by huge NGOs working in unison. Stop this boomer larp. We're on the cusp of the Rockefeller Lockstep Program, not another Caesar.

[Anonymous No.17487329]

>>17487323
Then it's the way of the WRE for us, then.

[Anonymous No.17487345]

>>17487329
Alls I know is no amount of savvy shitcoin investing will be able to act as a lifeboat to anyone for what is coming. /biz/ are feverishly trying to buy their way into the upper chambers on the Titanic. I can't blame them, though. They're making a go of it at least.

[Anonymous No.17487366]

>>17486856
It’s been stagnant since the popularization of jazz and the rise of Hollywood. The developments we’ve seen since then have been entirely superficial.

[Anonymous No.17487381]

>>17487218
I figured it out: the performer is a faggot

[Anonymous No.17487391]

True rebellion is Shalamov, Nabokov and the Papillion book.

[Anonymous No.17487403]

>>17478511
Monoculture isn't dying, it's just fragmenting itself into smaller niches. The mainstream canon is still quite easy to define, so it's definitely not disappearing into thin air or anything.

[Anonymous No.17487483]

>>17487018
This video is the funniest thing I've seen all week
Holy fuck, thank you

[Anonymous No.17487536]

>>17476920
AI is secretly making everyone miserable so that we will accept brainchips/deeper level simulation.

[Anonymous No.17487553]

>>17477093
You probably have nothing to compare with, your area was scoured of natives and competing colonies anyway.
Here from Russia, it feels that Murrica has a set of various cultures that just got hammered down by the hegemonic globohomo one. Pretty much like the variety of our local cultures got decimated and levelled down by communism.

Honestly, the USA now look so much like post-1905 Russia I'd expect the big boom to come in any year now. They are so alike, shit isn't mildly funny now. Think of the Pogroms, aka Socialist driven Jewish mob burning Russian small biz down then crying loudly when the Cossacks do their damn work. Russian Jews were basically something between the Italian Mafia and the Negro Mob, small wonder they hopped onto the Revolution train in droves. Your BLM is like 120 years old at this point.

[Anonymous No.17487565]

>>17486980
the BLM protests

[Anonymous No.17487571]

>>17487483
Why would it be funny? what did you think watching it?

[Anonymous No.17487577]

>>17487553
yea and they say the ice is melting...

[Anonymous No.17487599]

>>17487571
The music is clearly bad (to me, anyway) and some of those party goers look like they're having a great time
The performer and some of the audience are weird in a good way
Above all the fact that they're throwing this party over Zoom. This is what we have come to. They're rocking out in front of a computer screen

[Anonymous No.17487726]

>>17477056
he may infact have published his magnum opus but it has only been seen by at most 1000 people who bought it from a vanity published then never reprinted with in his lifetime

[Anonymous No.17487797]

>>17487599
Okay thanks. For me the music is very very catchy, but the way they act pisses me off.
I can't imagine what would come after this - New sincerity? lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgCr3XQz688
"Dorian is so ironic to the point it's not even ironic anymore. Love it."

[Anonymous No.17487922]

>>17486980
Collectivism died in the 60's and with it the hopes of an impactful and meaningful social revolution. The 60's counterculture was probably the last thing we'll have to an organic yet united movement that shifted the axioms of society.
By the 70's, atomization set in and youth of the former "counterculture" was forced to settle into the rat race of the real world cemented by yours truly, the boomers. They were forced to hold their contrarian beliefs and anti-establishment desires to rebel internally, which led to an angry and self-loathing malaise. Gen X still feels that strongly, which is why Fight Club is the best movie when it comes to understanding young men of that era who wanted to fight the system but were forced to do so underground, both literally and figuratively.
Watch Adam Curtis' documentary Hypernormalisation. Free on Youtube and he discusses how the counterculture of the 60's and 70's were completely different. Today a counterculture built from the ground up like the boomers tried is impossible (everything on the internet exists within the system and even IRL events are usually spectacle. When SHTF eventually maybe that'll change.

[Anonymous No.17488092]

>>17476966
lol not at all, the "renaissance" in our cycle already happened in the 20th century, right now we are still steadily going into decline until a couple more generations into the future a new renaissance starts happening, none of us will be alive by then.

[Anonymous No.17488104]

>>17476980
All the kids spent all their time watching anime, playing video games, and watching twitch streamers, and adults spent their time watching shitty netflix series

[Anonymous No.17488172]

>>17487797
>new sincerity
Yes, I think that is what I like about it. The people in the video are genuinely having a good time,
Maybe this is what comes after this nihilist/postmodern/whatver shit OP sees... sincere participation in the world knowing there is no order, no meaning, that people are stupid and life isn't fair, and still participating and living

Too many philosophers use fancy logical constructions (maybe I am brainlet?) and forget that we still live.
I'm not saying we should live unexamined lives, but lives that are overexamined (very easy to do and very common among intellectuals imo) might not be any better

[Anonymous No.17488933]

>>17482926
It's actually good. Negative exp is the only example I know though

It's punk though