/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.17570988]

Post practical shit to read on the left-hand path.
No Satanism cringe.
I'm thinking more along the lines of Eastern stuff:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vamachara
I have a couple of books on Aghora but would like to read something practical on Eastern tantric meditations.

[Anonymous No.17570997]

>>17570988
Idk about eastern stuff but I imagine the book of the law is very much LHP. Also Dragon Rouge.

[Anonymous No.17571009]

>>17570988
Imagine being dumb enough to pick LHP over RHP

[Anonymous No.17571013]

>>17571009
Imagine wanting annihilation over individuation

[Anonymous No.17571052]

>>17571013
I don't think it matters

[Anonymous No.17571055]

>>17571009
It's about being honest with oneself.

[Anonymous No.17571069]

>>17571009
The LHP would allow you to keep making posts like that, btw, which you evidently enjoy.

[Anonymous No.17571113]

>>17571009
>>17571013
>>17571069
I have a hard time believing a specific set of practices would somehow have a significant influence on what happens after you die.

[Anonymous No.17571176]

>>17571052
How come?

[Anonymous No.17571225]

>>17571176
Because >>17571113 pretty much
All of this feels like pure larping to me, I don't mean to be demeaning or offensive but I simply cannot convince myself that anything I do in this life will substantially change what happens afterwards, and I'm not a materialist either. I just think as long as you stay true and keep seeking, you'll be fine
This is definitely a fringe opinion here though

[Anonymous No.17571235]

>>17571113
>>17571225
Because you think we all go to the same place after death?
I don't think you're demeaning or anything but what do you make of the different religiois conceptions of the afterlife?

[Anonymous No.17571254]

>>17571235
What makes more sense to me is what happens after death is affected by your individual biases but ultimately not "permanent" in the sense that I highly doubt you can fuck up so badly in this life that you'd be locked into a "bad" afterlife.
>what do you make of the different religiois conceptions of the afterlife?
At best I'd relate them to the elephant simile. I'm very skeptical of the idea that one single tradition somehow figured it out. I try to remain as unattached to a specific doctrine as I possibly can

[Anonymous No.17571298]

>>17570988
they vamachara is banned in india
wonder what that means

[Anonymous No.17571314]

>>17571254
That's all very sensible. The idea of practices in this life deciding your fate after death is a kind of bias thing though. If I understood correctly the way you see it is that a christian will (atleast temporarily) go to a christian type afterlife and a hindu will go to a hindu type afterlife, yes?

[Anonymous No.17571343]

>>17571314
Maybe, I'm (obviously) not sure. I think the fundamental nature of what comes after death is the same for everyone, but that your personal biases can indeed shape your perception of things until you're ready to move on from them. Maybe it can be likened to a sort of long-term bardo state.
I don't think humanity has managed to peg down the nature of the afterlife, because pic related. So everything we come up with will be very incomplete at best.

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17571376]

>>17570988
>>17571009
>>17571013

stop Larping. I’m going to repost what I said last time concerning this.

Let me just clarify something for ya friend. As people commonly use the term left hand and right hand path has no real historical usage prior to Blavatsky, Blavatsky grossly and I mean absolutely grossly misinterpreted the actual eastern doctrines, every single one she ever touched.

Left hand path in the modern usage just means edgy or transgressive or dark, think Austin osman spare or bataile or a de Sade or a Rimbaud.

The actual left hand path, which is the hindu Vamachara is actually an extreme devotion form of Nondual shivaism dedicated to using the sense pleasures and creation and maya/the illusion world as the revelation of god and means of knowing god, so they will consume their own feces, consume semen, break their own taboos and so forth but they would do this not over some sexual gratification but to see God in it and to sacrifice every part of their experience and life to God which they see all reality as. I’ll post a prayer poem by abhinavagupta to give you an idea what it’s like in reality.

The unifying factor of the edgy modern left hand path and the actual left hand path is the usage of illusions/sorcery/artifice as a means of knowing God, this is most paralleled in our western hermericism and especially the occultism of someone like William Blake, the Lars von triar movie “house that jack built” is a beautiful love letter to the actual left hand path. The poem you posted vaguely can be categorized to that kind of beauty and artifice type mysticism.

Almost All of mysticism dualistic and otherwise has similar ideas of the refining of the self even the most basic of Christians like Methodists.

The vast majority of systems aren’t about annihilation of the self but about purification/harmonization of the self with god/nature. This is why Enoch becomes metatron, Elijah becomes sandalphon, Arjuna realizes he is Indra-Vishnu-Krishna through the mahat, you get the idea. The only real exception to this is some interpretations of Theravada Buddhism and that ends the second you leave Theravada. The idea that RHP or normative systems are about annihilation is again another Blavatsky perversion. To quote echkart the goal is fusion not confusion.

This is a common error for people who kinda strive to not read primary/source material but rather read modernizers (folks like Blavatsky, guenon, evola, you know the type) I rec reading the source texts themselves anon.

Comt

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17571384]

>>17571376

This is the famous Bhairava stotram of the poet-philosopher-avatar-saint, abhinavagupta who was the avatar of Bhairava the primary god of the aghori and many other LHP adepts.

I, Abhinavagupta, with one pointed devotion, am praying to that supreme all pervading Lord Siva, who is himself present in each and everything that exists, and who through realization reveáls himself as the one limitless Bhairavanatha, the protector of the helpless.

By the energy of your grace it has been revealed to me that this vibrating universe is your own existence. Thus, O Lord Siva, this realization has come to me that you are my own soul and as such this universe is my own expression and existence.

O possessor of everything, though your devotees, bound by karma and conditioning of mind, are caught in the net of destiny that arouses troubles and bondage, still they are not afraid of the fret and fever of this world. Having realized this universe as your own existente, they are not afraid of worldly dif-ficulties, because fear exists only when there is some one else to inflict it. But when there is none other than you, how can fear arise.


O Lord Bhairava, I offer salutations to you, who has awakened me to the realization that everything in existence is you alone. As a result of this awakening, the darkness of my mind has been destroyed and I am neither frightened of the evil family of demons, nor am I afraid of Yama, the fearful Lord of death.

O Lord Shiva, it is through your existence, revealed to me by real knowledge, that I realize all attachments and all that exists in this universe is activated by you. It is by this awakening, that my mind becomes saturated with immortal devotion and I experience supreme bliss.

O Lord, sometimes I feel misery which arouses torment in my mind, but at that same moment, blessed by a shower of your grace, a clean and clear visión of my oneness with you arises, the impact of which my mind feels appeased.

O Lord Siva, it is said that through charity, ritual bath and the practices of penance the troubles of worldly existence subside, but even more than this, by remembrance of the sacred shastras and your words alone the current of immortality like a stream of peace enters my heart.

O Lord Bhairava, through my utmost faith I have perceived you in the unique sacrifíce of oneness, which otherwise is not possible though performing mountains of rituals. Being filled with your presence my consciousness intensely dances and sings, enjoying its own ecstacy.

O compassionate Lord, under the influence of your glory and for the benefit of your worshipers, I Abhinavagupta have composed this hymn. By meditation and recitation of this hymn within a moment that merciful Lord Bhairava destroys the torments and sufferings, springing from this wilderness of saMsara.

Like, actual LHP tantriks would 100% be down for reciting this.

Cont

[Anonymous No.17571391]

>>17571376
>dedicated to using the sense pleasures and creation and maya/the illusion world as the revelation of god
Does that mean I can watch anime and jack off as an act of devotion to the One?

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17571393]

>>17571384
So something like alchemy/hermeticism in which nature is used as the means to know God, contemplate God, come closer to God, where artistry and artifice are tools to knowing God, all of this is basically a proof that this is the western LHP, example in Arab and hermetic lit for the consecration of the holy mirror I have read that many would consecrate it with five secretions/fluids from the body of man each to reflect the pentagram, consider the same bodily usages in tantra, consider the massive influence on poetics and art theory someone like Abhinavagupta alone has done, how shiva is the God of artists, the greatest emblem to contemplate for this in the western sense is probably pic related.

The macrocosm, the heavenly man reflecting in the microcosm, on earth, forming a hexagram for denote the entirety of the planets with the sun in the center, which is in hermetic phenomenology actually the aspects of being and perception in its full diversity all being one absolute unity. The emblem of this is YHVH, the first YH being the father and mother, v/vav in Hebrew is just a drawn out Y, thus the name of God is the father mother son and daughter, the infinite harmony and reflection of macrocosm and microcosm. And this is the key to the entirety of the alchemical and LHP formula. The name of Jehovah.

[Anonymous No.17571398]

>>17571376
>the goal is fusion not confusion.
Then the ego is abandoned no matter what?

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17571412]

>>17571391
Not quite, you could theoretically if you could see god in it and actually use it as a means of devotion to God. But rather it is more akin to how William Blake would use art and artifice. Or to quote Schiller

“ Wherever you find them, surround them with noble, great and ingenious forms, enclose them all round with the symbols of excellence, until actuality is overpowered by appearance and Nature by Art”

Again, there’s nothing inherently edgy about LHP, there’s no real RHP/LHP distinction historically or in the east, it’s not individuality vs monism. All of this stuff is largely rooted out of Blavatsky’s new ageism.

[Anonymous No.17571424]

>>17571412
>if you could see god in it
Aren't you supposed to see divinity in everything?

[Anonymous No.17571441]

>>17571376
But LARPing is fun

[Anonymous No.17571444]

>>17571376
>The actual left hand path, which is the hindu Vamachara
Which is what was mentioned in the OP.

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17571467]

>>17571398
Not at all, the Ego is empowered, the ego is seen as a mirror which is covered in filth by the mundane and normative. Your own identity is not the problem but is rather magnified in the majority of models. Filled, empowered, etc. this is seen as a purification process but not an abandoning.

[Anonymous No.17571486]

>>17571467
How do you get to that state?

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17571496]

>>17571424
Yes but in the west this is done through extreme refinement/artistic aspects, in Asia this is similarly done using sorcery and high energetic actions, think drinking and the like. The key is you’re using an illusion as an affirmation of reality, because in Vamachara models, Maya is seen as the revelation of God. This is easier in stronger concentrations of quality and also in more visceral lower quality forms. This is by no means an excuse to be a coomer.

>>17571444
Yes but then followed by talks about individuality vs unity and so forth. Which Vamachara doesn’t care about.

[Anonymous No.17571502]

>>17571393
>five secretions/fluids from the body of man
i guess there is blood, piss, semen, saliva, sweat and tears
are these in the five

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17571513]

>>17571486
By a multitude of mystical and esoteric methods case dependent on the model you choose. In Neoplatonism it’s done either through pure contemplation (Plotinus) or ritual work/theurgy(Iamblichus)

In tantric models there are hundreds of methods, it all depends. Check out the Bhairava tantra and some basic tantric lit.

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17571524]

>>17571502
Here. Have an essay I wrote concerning the tantric Tattva ontology, it’ll show how the body and fluids and so forth is considered divinity.

https://pastebin.com/AjzfzFTk

[Anonymous No.17571683]

>>17571513
Can you really do tantra without an initiation?
What about kundalini?

[Anonymous No.17571693]

>>17571496
>Yes but then followed by talks about individuality vs unity and so forth. Which Vamachara doesn’t care about.
This is yet another example of why the removal of per-thread IDs on some 4chan boards was such a mistake. Posters get lumped together without them.

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17571737]

>>17571683

No, but you can get initiation from the goddesses directly. Kundalini is far more basic than you realize.

Tantraloka 4:62:
>The purpose of self initiation is to mobilize the essense of the mantra which is being practiced. Mobilization of the essence of the mantra results in activation of self knowledge. It has been observed that if one is unable to get a teacher capable of activating the mantra, by praying to Candika Devi (Raktadevi) regularly, one becomes an Acarya within a month, a Sadhaka in a fortnight. A Putraka in a week, and within four days less by quarter of a day, Samayi. In this process of initiation, Raktadevi is supposed to perform the ceremony Herself as the provision of the Shastras. This method is to be adopted in case of unavailibility of a Guru.


Note, this rite means you must perform each stage for each level of initiation, so it isn’t just a month, but longer.

The Dhyana Mantra of Raktadevi:

महाविनोदार्पितमातृचक्र-
वीरेन्द्रकासृग्रसपानसक्ताम् |
रक्तीकृतां च प्रलयात्यये तां
नमामि विश्वाकृतिरक्तकालीम् ||

न चैषा चक्षुषा ग्राह्या न च सर्वेन्द्रियस्थिता |
निर्गुणा निरहङ्कारा रञ्जयेद्विश्वमण्डलम् |
सा कला तु यदुत्पन्ना सा ज्ञेया रक्तकलिका ||

mahāvinodārpitamātṛcakra-
vīrendrakāsṛgrasapānasaktām |
raktīkṛtāṃ ca pralayātyaye tāṃ
namāmi viśvākṛtiraktakālīm ||

na caiṣā cakṣuṣā grāhyā na ca sarvendriyasthitā |
nirguṇā nirahaṅkārā ranjayedviśvamaṇḍalam |
sā kalā tu yadutpannā sā jneyā raktakalikā ||


Here’s a reading list, read this in the order from top to bottom, easiest to hardest.

Shiva Sutras
Shiva Samhita
(Optional=abhinavagupta commentary of the gita)
Bhairava tantra (112 meditations )
The secret supreme:Kashmir shivaism (very simplified but still good.)
Kali Kaula(skip if you don’t want Neo-tantra+ historical analysis of tantra and its relations to stuff like Taoism and the general arising of Vedanta and Buddhism from the Upanishads and other such )
Tantra Illuminated (Skip if you don’t want modern lit)
Kaulajnananirnaya
Kularnava Tantra
Anandalahare
Matrikabheda Tantra
Spandakarikas
Paratrisikavivirana
Tantraloka (You can also read when you feel up to it the Tantrasara which is a condensed normie friendly version of the tantraloka written by abhinavagupta to give people a tldr)

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17571760]

>>17571683
Were also told in the tantraloka as long as you keep the same general principles/ideals/teachings of tantra and do not claim to be from some lineage, you’re fine to create your own system and lineage, and if the deities give you the gnosis who would/why should anyone stop you?

[Anonymous No.17571761]

>>17571737
Damn that's a lot to digest. Thanks for all the resources.
Why is kundalini basic? I keep hearing about people who fucked themselves up with it.

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17571788]

>>17571761
Because it’s one of the first things you learn to do in tantra proper, it’s simply that Tantra is the faster path, it assumes you will be working hours of yoga and ritual work daily, hours of meditation. Tantra isn’t the easy way out and kundalini if done in this context is much better. Further the “terrible” aspects are the good parts in tantra, as you are to induce feelings of suffocation, demons devouring you, your family dying, fire, burning, your jaw being stuck and so forth, and find god, divinity and bliss within all of these. Again Tantra/LHP isn’t for the coomer or the lazy person, it’s maximization and using the extremes of the senses towards knowledge of God. Kundalini in weaker and greater forms is again basic, and what most people call kundalini is just the weakest/earliest form of the practice, higher and more different forms which don’t even relate to a serpent exist and are used in upper parts of various traditions.

[Anonymous No.17571793]

>>17571737
why have you not included the pratyabhijnahrdayam in the list?

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17571807]

>>17571761
A very good beginner source who is a major scholar, has made translations and has videos on YouTube of teaching various classes is Mark S. G. Dyczkowski. Check him out.

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17571823]

>>17571793
Eh, it’s a fine book, no particular reason except you’d go over much of the same material but under a different Tattva structure and slightly different ontology. It’s still a fine work, the above list is a absolute intro stuff.

It’s still a fine work and would be recommended during the more mid-latter parts of that list.

[Anonymous No.17571831]

>>17571013
imagine thinking RHP equals annihilation

[Anonymous No.17571887]

>>17571788
Is it possible to stumble upon realization just through meditation and no ritualistic practices? Or would that be like going into it completely blind
What do you believe these practices achieve in the concrete sense regarding the afterlife? Do you think Evola was right when he said unless you get a glimpse of the divine during your life you're doomed to annihilation?

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17572012]

>>17571887
>Is it possible to stumble upon realization just through meditation and no ritualistic practices? Or would that be like going into it completely blind

Tantra states that humans have 3 differing levels of meditative/contemplative power corresponding to inherent qualities within the individual.

The lowest level is the Anavopaya, this is for those who’s souls are most akin to the finite and illusionary world, these ones (who are the majority of man mind you) require harsh ritualism, asceticism, meditation, pranayama and much yoga in order to gain realization and spiritual fruition.

The next and middle tier is the shaktopaya, this one need simply contemplate the nature of God and they shall attain, at most they’ll chant mantras and this will be enough eventually.

The highest level and those who’s souls are the most sattvic are those who practice Shambhavopaya, and by simply resting in the “I” and reflection upon the “I” one sees shiva in his i and vice versa, automatically understanding their Nonduality and the nature of Godhead without need for any meditations beyond this.

> What do you believe these practices achieve in the concrete sense regarding the afterlife


I don’t, I do not believe esotericism and mystical practices and experiences change your afterlife, nor are they necessary for salvation in any regard.

The question of the afterlife and salvation is the same question and answer as the exoteric. According to abhinavagupta where one has placed their desire/longing in life, there they shall go upon death. I however am of the Christian belief and find there is no salvation outside of Christ.

In both cases, the question isn’t about an afterlife salvation when it comes to mysticism, mysticism is about love, devotion, knowledge of God and so forth. In fact the highest attainment in tantra is anuttara, the realization that there is no River to pass over to. That this reality is already the manifestation of shiva.

[Anonymous No.17572060]

>>17571887
Speaking from what I've studied of a Esoteric Christian/Hermetic perspective, rather than the Tantric/Kundalini source Asemlen is talking about, I believe the goal of meditation and prayer is to build the mental and spiritual foundation of regular ritualistic practice. Think that a map must be formed before a path can be followed or a journey begun; So it must be in the formation of the Minor and Major Alchemical works, or in the practice of Theurgy. The state of the Seven Planets and Metals/The Sacraments and Holy Mysteries, etc, must be understood and work through, actualized and eventually 'approved' by God in works, before anything ritual or effective upon the world or, extensively, the self can be wrought.
At least, that's what my studies (OT, NT, Hermetica, Theatrum Chemicum Britannicum, and the likes of Boehme and Fludd) have indicated, my personal biases aside.
As for the second question, though I again I know you were asking someone else, the picture painted is that the human soul is tormented by demons (or daemons) in the process of dying before the Dark Night of the Soul. In which man is 'judged' by merely being in the presence of God and knowing the weight of all sins committed in mortal life, to where even the lightest brush of a divine hand is relative agony. After this the soul rejoins into a typically finite union with God before it is drawn back to the material as a matter of the soul's nature.

[Anonymous No.17572062]

>>17570988
To all non-schizos who happened to bump into this thread, is this some sort of advanced schizo roleplay? Do people here actually believe in this nonsense?

[Anonymous No.17572081]

>>17572012
What is your favorite system of mysticism aside from tantra?
> I do not believe esotericism and mystical practices and experiences change your afterlife, nor are they necessary for salvation
Then the purpose of all those practices and supernatural experiences is simply to get a glimpse of the absolute? Is that the case even for the highest realizations like the buddhists' nirvana and the hinduists' moksha?
>where one has placed their desire/longing in life, there they shall go upon death.
This sounds similar to the new age "you go to the afterlife you believe in" idea but that's probably not what you meant.
>there is no salvation outside of Christ
Since you know a lot about various belief systems I'm curious to know why you were drawn specifically to Christianity, if you don't mind sharing that info.
What does salvation mean to you? Is it in the literal sense where those who don't believe in Christ's divinity are damned?

[Anonymous No.17572119]

>>17572060
>knowing the weight of all sins committed in mortal life, to where even the lightest brush of a divine hand is relative agony.
This reminds me of that Meister Eckhart quote that was also the main theme of Jacob's Ladder. It also sounds similar to what Fr. Seraphim Rose was talking about. This is the esoteric Christian take, but isn't the hermetic position different?

[Anonymous No.17572183]

>>17572119
Sort've? The Hermetic position is reincarnative until man succeeds in finding and utterly knowing God, but it is possible to fail if man falls to living a wholly or mostly material existence, this, along with the ignoring and discarding of one's talent's, is said to be one of the gravest sins against God. If man does not pursue God, be it through actual mysticism, or through in echoing God as a divine creator through creating, or if he does not create children mental or physical, then he falls into a horrific state of torment by Daemons, distinct from the Christian Demons, or the Hierarchies of those who defied God and sided with Lucifer/Satan initially, in that, from what I can surmise, Daemons are far more mental rather than spiritual. The Hermetic Hell, so to speak, is no longer incarnating and being 'incarcerated' in a realm of mental material suffering. Like being bound to material twofold

[Anonymous No.17572218]

>>17572183
Aren't you automatically exempt from being bound to the material if you yearn for higher truths?

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17572238]

>>17572081
>What is your favorite system of mysticism aside from tantra?

My own system, Kek. But other than that I consider Tantra to be equal to Jewish Kabbalistic systems and equal to taoist magical systems and these are equal in quality (though not quantity) to Rosicrucian systems.

> Then the purpose of all those practices and supernatural experiences is simply to get a glimpse of the absolute?

To gain ever more knowledge/closeness to god, in my opinion yes.

>Is that the case even for the highest realizations like the buddhists' nirvana and the hinduists' moksha

Depends on the form/system, dualist Hindus certainly would disagree as would strains of Vedanta. Depends on the form of Buddhism, dzogchen and deeper Vajrayana doctrines would agree as would portions of Zen, they would simply say it’s a question of compassion, daily life and relative value and not a question of ultimate truth and ultimate salvation.

> This sounds similar to the new age "you go to the afterlife you believe in" idea but that's probably not what you meant.

Nope, more in the sense of, when you dwell upon the lowly, you go to a corresponding hell and life. If you will god you go towards God. But in tantra is a total calculation of all desire and will throughout the life.

> Since you know a lot about various belief systems I'm curious to know why you were drawn specifically to Christianity, if you don't mind sharing that info.

I started all spirituality with Christianity and all my religious and philosophy study is an extension of my love and desire for Christ, I’ve lived a living relationship with my God and he has unveiled these things for me when asked. How can I ignore or consider it below any other faith when I have so many experiences of Christ and these have led to my study and gaining knowledge of these other systems? It is a question of my relationship with the person of God.


>What does salvation mean to you? Is it in the literal sense where those who don't believe in Christ's divinity are damned?


Yes, except I agree with boehme that hell is the negatory will/desire of Godhead, that hell is fundamentally being submerged into the raw universality/abstraction of Godhead and dwelling in his burning desire for being. But this is a complicated and off topic thing related to my ontology thus not the point of the thread.

[Anonymous No.17572281]

>>17572218
More or less, but is it not very easy to falter on the yearning for higher truths, to fall to material distraction, confusion, potential temptation or false disillusionment or, worst of all, to the material needs and wants which are innate to almost all of us as mortal, human beings?
Just as well, I would heavily argue that things like marriage between a man and woman, the union of positive and negative, even raising a family and knowing the perspective of being a father or mother, is utterly important to progressing in Hermetic mysticism. This means that you cannot just sit within the wild living off of wild honey and locusts, the temptations and trials of mortal life, social life, must be engaged with and the requisite experiences and pearls of knowledge won out.
It is harder for one who yearns for higher truths to fall to the material, but not impossible. Really, I shill getting /fit/ so much as part of practicing the Hermetic religion so much because it means developing a basis of self discipline which will necessarily be needed in suffering the slings and arrows of life. A golden statue cannot stand on feet of clay, and all that.

[Anonymous No.17572393]

>>17572238
>I consider Tantra to be equal
Do you include tibetan buddhism in that or are you specifically referring to hindu tantra? Do the things you said ITT generally apply to tantrayana as well?
>I started all spirituality with Christianity and all my religious and philosophy study is an extension of my love and desire for Christ
What do you think of gnosticism?
Do you believe virtuous pagans are saved?
You're right though we're getting off topic, but I'm interested in what you think nonetheless

[Anonymous No.17572409]

>>17572281
>is it not very easy to falter on the yearning for higher truths
What do you call falling to material distraction? Is everything that isn't wholehearted devotion to the transcendent considered material distraction? Is the life of a complete ascetic, rejecting the world, the only way (your following argument on marriage notwithstanding)?

[Anonymous No.17572422]

>>17571009
>>17571013
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>>17571788
>>17571793
>>17571807
>>17571823
>>17571831
>>17571887
>>17572012
>>17572060
>>17572081
>>17572119
>>17572183
>>17572218
>>17572238
>>17572281
>>17572393
>>17572409
Take your meds. Please

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17572535]

>>17572393
>Do you include tibetan buddhism in that or are you specifically referring to hindu tantra? Do the things you said ITT generally apply to tantrayana as well?


I am in general speaking of hindu tantra but buddhist tantra largely will use the same texts as hindu tantra so it somewhat applies to them also. But it depends, tantric Buddhism is not a monolith.

> What do you think of gnosticism?

Incorrect, majority of people don’t even study the stuff and just larp about it, fascinating for historical purposes and relation to other systems. I reject Gnosticism though as a whole.

> Do you believe virtuous pagans are saved?

Only if they sought the messiah prior to Christ’s birth/before knowledge of Christ was possible. Gotta run I’ll try to answer more later.

[Anonymous No.17572556]

>>17572238
>and these are equal in quality (though not quantity) to Rosicrucian systems.
I like the AMORC/CR+C systems and Bardon's (non-Rosicrucian) IIH system. Authenticity in those cases is questionable, but regardless of that, I'm interested in hearing about any other systems along the same lines: structured lessons, not ceremonial/elaborate, Western flavor, "mental exercises." Already aware of the usual New Thought writers.

[Anonymous No.17572676]

>>17572409
The Seven Deadly Sins are a good example of material attachment in excess. Material distraction is anything which would, well, distract from God or God's grace/creation flowing into man. This is not to say that the physical world must be ignored, but that it takes moderation in living in the material world, and a constant vigilance to falling into it. It is not the utter rejection of the world, but not letting it blind you while you live in it. After all, to reject the world would be, in part, to reject some of God's work, or to reject people you could help, or things that could be created WITHIN the world as an expression, etc.

[Anonymous No.17572759]

>>17572676
>would be, in part, to reject some of God's work
That's what I meant, there is awe-inspiring beauty in life, surely it's not there just to be rejected. And the more I pay attention, the better I become at discerning that beauty within simplicity.

[Anonymous No.17572786]

>>17572759
I apologize if I have been confusing, but that is the same conclusion I have come to as well. Even if this material world is something inherently capable of suffering due to it being a fallen nature, it too, like man, is originally a creation of the Lord. What I mean, effectively, is that the Hermetic goal is to not be consumed by life or the world, but to slip a yoke onto it for the purpose of discovering and learning the nature of God, as well as to work within his work.
The Hermetic perspective and the Esoteric Christian one line up very well, just from different angles.

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17572812]

>>17572556
Still busy but I mean the historical Rosicrucians not the AMORC(which I have no respect for whatsoever)

[Anonymous No.17572815]

>>17572786
I'm neither a Christian nor a hermetist but this is a vision I definitely agree with, yes.

[Anonymous No.17573080]

Here's a question since this seems like a good thread for it.
What does it mean to be 'worthy' of pursuing the mystical? Specifically the Western tradition in the Hermetic and Christian branches. What is the daily outlook and actions of someone who would pursue such a synthesized perspective? Both in the sense of ritual/meditation and in habits

[Anonymous No.17573202]

Psychfag here.

Are you idiots just arguing over symbological representations of psychological formula for the integration of the archetypical contents of the unconscious to consciousness via the suffusion of the Eros principle and Will to Power into the antithetical imagistic representations of metaphorical left and right manifestations of political dispositions as a consiquence of predispositions of personality?

[Anonymous No.17573204]

>>17570988
Straight from the Heart; Buddhist pith instructions, edited together by my favorite H.P Lovecraft's cat rper, Karl Brunnholzl

can't recommend it enough; the indian mahasiddhas are peak lhp, peak gnonsis

Naropa literally let his dick hang out while singing, plus there are some legitimately profound ethical/praxis points in those songs ^_^

really it's not theoretical, it's all orientation of awareness.

[Anonymous No.17573225]

>>17573202
No, we are instead arguing and discussion the religious and metaphysical/philosophical connotations of different outlooks and lingual families of such symbolism. While it could be relegated and reduced to psychology, we are pretty much shooting the shit over theology. The left and right hand paths hold little, if any, political significance. Frued and Nietchze hold small power here

[Anonymous No.17573261]

>>17573225
I disagree.

After a cursory glance at the thread it is clear to me that these people are insisting upon a low resolution dialogue regarding the objective validity of the will to power versus the eros principle, i.e. the instinct to preservation of the self versus the instinct to continuation of the species.

The left and right hand paths, as can be seen in the left and the right manifestations of political temperament. Individualism versus collectivism.

For the self versus for the good of the species.

Nietzsche vs Wagner.

Freud vs Adler.

>to the tripfag, you're retarded - get out of my thread.

[Anonymous No.17573309]

>>17573261
I disagree further. The designations of the left and right hand paths as esoteric distinctions far postcede the crystallization of the left/right paradigm of political temperament and theory within Western civilization, and, going beyond nomenclature, are not even the common distinctions as has been explained to their psychological counterparts. The LHP, as it is beyond common conception, is the absolute intake of existence versus the total rejection of it, I.E. the Thugees and their whorship of Kali alongside corpse hugging and the like vs the asceticism of RHP. To tied politics into the esoteric is reductive and utterly ignorant of any greater meaning.
You yourself fall into the common misconception of both, and to say that the esoteric and politics mix is to grasp at the mere leafy growths of the religious. The will to power versus eros principle to describe is far afield from anything we are discussion because the primary plain upon which this discussion hinges is the soul relative to physical existence, rather than the mental relative to physical existence.

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17573312]

>>17573202
No ones even arguing, there’s no political element and all aspects of modern esotericism study and integrate Nietzsche, Schopenhauer, eliphas levi, Freud and so forth in terms of theories on will, Eros, Thanatos and so forth and others for our symbolic analysis of desire and other such.

I’m still multi tasking so I’ll be brief, Left and right hand path in tantra refer to orthodox and heterodoxy but more specifically right hand path means the normative spiritual path in which you (as according to the yoga sutras of patanjali) still the waves of transient activity and look clearly upon consciousness/awareness reflects upon itself, ignoring/renouncing the external forms of conscious in order to look at the hidden interior that is unchanging and pervades it. Whilst in Vamachara you utilize maximization of these waves, of the world of appearances as the link/means of gaining knowledge of god and the relationship with God. But both of these aren’t truly opposed to each other and the metaphysics, aims and so forth are often approximate. And even then, there are hundreds of schools of tantra and of normative Hinduism so even what I’m saying is a very broad strokes thing ya know.

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17573325]

>>17573261
Brother that’s literally not the point, there’s no question of self preservation, reproduction or the like. It’s a question of utilizing the world of appearances to gain knowledge in a phenomenology system or if rejection of phenomena is needed in order to use an interior link to a kind of noumenal all pervading truth.

You can call me retarded all you like, friend. Doesn’t change the fact I’m speaking historical reality.

[Anonymous No.17573371]

>>17573309
>The designations of the left and right hand paths as esoteric distinctions far postcede the crystallization of the left/right paradigm of political temperament.
What does that have to do with drawing attention to their parity though analogy?

>To tied politics into the esoteric is reductive and utterly ignorant of any greater meaning.
Hence I did not.

>You yourself fall into the common misconception of both, and to say that the esoteric and politics mix is to grasp at the mere leafy growths of the religious.
Are you implying that religion and politics are somehow categorically separate? What a preposterous supposition.

>>17573312
I know what the left and right hand path represent you idiot I was being facetious an rhetorical.

>It’s a question of utilizing the world of appearances to gain knowledge in a phenomenology system or if rejection of phenomena is needed in order to use an interior link to a kind of noumenal all pervading truth.
So you're a virgin then?

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17573386]

>>17573371
Virgin doesn’t work as an insult against someone who has reproduced, friend.

[Anonymous No.17573423]

>>17573386
>No ones even arguing, there’s no political element and all aspects of modern esotericism study and integrate Nietzsche, Schopenhauer, eliphas levi, Freud and so forth in terms of theories on will, Eros, Thanatos and so forth and others for our symbolic analysis of desire and other such.
I sorta missed that gem of a comment.

What the fuck are you talking about? Theosophy is, by it's very nature, an expression of unconscious processes and contents through an alignment with faculties of the psyche which confer communicative union with the transcendental function.

Are you sincerely claiming that the political left and right have nothing to do with the left and right hand "path"

[Anonymous No.17573430]

>>17573371
>What does that have to do with drawing attention to their parity though analogy?
More just a distinction; it is clear that political thoughts and opinions/temperaments develop greatly between different cultures, especially when the original and Western interpreted LHP/RHP difference are greatly affected by the difference between, say, Europe and India in terms of thought. But that is an aside, more than anything.
>as can be seen in the left and the right manifestations of political temperament. Individualism versus collectivism.
My apologies if I have misinterpreted this in particular, I was referring to the above.
>Are you implying that religion and politics are somehow categorically separate? What a preposterous supposition.
The religious? No, it's perfectly reasonable to link that into politics, after all one must greatly determine the other. The esoteric, on the other hand, is best and in it's purest form when it is not inherently linked into politics, see; Dugin, Evola, Hitlerists, etc.
I.e. to try and derive political basis from it is taking a tree for the sprouts, rather than the roots.
Now, if you will excuse me I must leave for work.

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17573465]

>>17573423
>What the fuck are you talking about? Theosophy is, by it's very nature, an expression of unconscious processes and contents through an alignment with faculties of the psyche which confer communicative union with the transcendental function.

Depends on the form of mysticism and practice. There’s nothing subconscious about the mystical practice of Plotinus nor the contemplative skeptic systems in Buddhism and Hinduism.


>Are you sincerely claiming that the political left and right have nothing to do with the left and right hand "path"

Yes, I am sincerely claiming that the construct of the political left and right which are constantly changing based on a simulacra, a false dichotomy which only exists based on a false system of various interrelated symbols, has no relation to the concept within tantric esotericism of utilizing or denying sense experience towards contemplation and meditation upon Godhead and the nature of reality.

[Anonymous No.17573467]

>>17573430
Cool you're an alright guy.

Alright, so, what I'm refer to is the fact that the predisposition of an individual to identify with the left hand path, as an example, also predisposed them to an identification with the political left.

I was ascribing to this process an inference of correlation which implies, through extensive deductive analyses, a causal principle underlying these particular manifestation of the personality.

If you're a right hand path kinda guy, you're also a political right kinda guy, ya dig?

[Anonymous No.17573476]

>>17573465
Well the political left and right is a description of a process of manifestation of a predisposition of temperament and personality, primarily.

So, you're stupid.

[Anonymous No.17573496]

What do you think about the role of poetry, which is to say rhyming in terms of mysticism? I often think about the Hexen-ein-mal-eins from Faust.

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17573572]

>>17573476
To some degree this is true but much of the political left and right is a construct, each local political party will have a host of “right wing” positions that are largely thrown together and just broad strokes coloring everyone as supporting this or that because a singular impulse is highly reductive. Example abortion can be a “right wing” stance or a left wing stance, the right wing can be collectivist or individualist, same to the left wing. Time, place, context, specific models and so forth all have to be considered. So you’re free to call me stupid, and I’m free to disagree that the cultural construct of the political left and right is related to methodology of gaining knowledge of Godhead within the Indian schools of mysticism.

>>17573496
Multiple reasons, partially to induce a trance state, justified because of the ideas of emanation, reflections, the concept of reality following a natural rhythm and so forth. There’s multiple reasons.

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17573584]

>>17573496
Creation of poetry and music has various usages, generating emotional force, the kind of LHP artistic attainment already explained in this thread, self exploration and so forth. Also divine revelation.

[Anonymous No.17573591]

>>17573572
I mean I wasn't asking about why I think about that poem lol. I'm well-aware of its trance-inducing and and rythmic qualities

[Anonymous No.17573609]

>>17570988
satanism is fucking gay as shit youre a tranny retard whos going to die from HRT and rope my god what a DUMPSTER FIRE your life is if you resorted to reading satanic garbage made for pedos and trannies to justify their LARP

[Anonymous No.17573616]

>>17573609
Reading is hard, huh? He specifically said no satanist shit.

[Anonymous No.17573707]

>>17571737
Anon, this might be a lot to ask, but could you write a clear, concise, simple, step-by-step summary of the bare minimum necessary to achieve a self-initiation in Kundalini and the corresponding powers - I am referring here specifically to awareness of the subtle body, of the spirit and the capacity to perform operations with them. There is a lot of material out there and many materials and practices are inaccessible, so I would like to have a step-by-step list on what do to make it to my goal. I am not asking for a detailed guide. Directions will be more than plenty. Say, something along the lines of "do this ascesis, read this text, perform this operation". Things like that.

[Anonymous No.17573723]

>>17573707
that's not how esoteric bullshitters work, m8. do you not know the grift?

[Anonymous No.17573768]

>>17573707
Meditate on your body. Feel the different parts. Focus on the locations of the chakras, and breathe in light/cleansing energy. Breath in white light that fills up your entire body, breathe out and imagine a red-black fluid rising up your spine. There. Also read Robert Bruce's New Energy Ways.

>>17573723
Bugman

[Anonymous No.17573806]

>>17573768
>Robert Bruce's New Energy Ways

lmao

[Anonymous No.17573906]

>>17573723
Why are you in this thread if you don't see any value in esotericism? Just to seethe? Why do you seethe if you don't care? Could it be that some part of you just despises spiritual inquiry and wishes to prevent others from pursuing it?
>>17573768
This sounds simple enough but it's the particulars that are the challenging part. I spent a bit of time experimenting with Hermetic alchemy but I realised that even with a description of the exercises, I was not sure what they consisted in exactly in terms of breath duration, rhythm, how to confirm if you are doing it right etc. etc. etc. I am especially not sure how you are supposed to breathe in energy and how you realise that is what you are breathing in, in contrast to normal breathing.
>Also read Robert Bruce's New Energy Ways.
Why do you recommend it and where can I download it? It's not on libgen. What was the other site shilled on /lit/, b-ok something?
>>17573806
What are your complaints about the book, anon. Is it New Age?

[Anonymous No.17573976]

>>17573572
>Much of the political left and right is a construct.
That's patently incorrect. Learn your Jung, son.

[Anonymous No.17573993]

>>17573906
>the particulars
Generally speaking, discipline and consistency is key. Have you done the four-fold breath for an extended period of time? 4 seconds breathing in, 4 seconds holding in, 4 seconds breathing out, 4 seconds holding, repeat. It's a feeling thing. You'll know you've done it right if you feel during and afterwards more clarity of mind, if you feel more stable, joyous, etc. These things are always very individual in their effects, but a good rule of thumb is "good shit happening" like more vivid dreaming or more joie-de-vivre or more energy to focus.
>how you are supposed to breathe in energy
It has a lot to do with imagination and intent. Imagine what it feels like when a physical weight is lifted off your shoulder. Some anon once mentioned that clearing chakras feels like your nose clearing after it was clogged. You should combine these exercises (mantras, focusing on points in the body, breathwork) with physical exercise and other meditations like visualization or void or mindfulness. The body is earth, and earth is the slowest of the elements. Don't worry, you'll get there soon enough if you keep it up. Also clean eating and shadowwork will help immensely.
>why do you recommend it
It's a short read that was suggested to me on fringe. He goes over the minor energy points in the body and how you can stimulate them. He also teaches you to breathe in and move energy through your arms and legs.

[Anonymous No.17574002]

>>17570988
>No Satanism cringe.

[Anonymous No.17574069]

>>17571376
>stop Larping
>the actual left hand path is the usage of illusions/sorcery/artifice as a means of knowing God
a bit contradictory, no?

[Anonymous No.17574083]

>>17573993
>Have you done the four-fold breath for an extended period of time? 4 seconds breathing in, 4 seconds holding in, 4 seconds breathing out, 4 seconds holding, repeat.
I have tried the 2n-n-2n-n pattern; inhale, hold, exhale, hold. It's difficult to make it flow smoothly. There are also issues in how at one point I discovered that I can breathe in up to ~30% more air just by changing my posture and using my diaphragm. A lot of these specifics get glossed over in instructions.
>shadowwork
What does this mean?
>It's a short read that was suggested to me on fringe. He goes over the minor energy points in the body and how you can stimulate them. He also teaches you to breathe in and move energy through your arms and legs.
I will give it a look.

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17574111]

>>17573707
The secret supreme:Kashmir shivaism actually does this but okay.

The first thing you should do is read the Bhairava tantra, it has 112 meditations. Experiment with these, it has so many because different people reach results with different methodologies. After you have found one or a couple that induce samadhi and so forth, meditate in this fashion for about an hour.

Then the earliest and weakest forms of kundalini can be practiced. Simply imagine below the base of the spine there, there in the Kula chakra is Kundali, the serpent goddess who is identical to awareness itself, and slowly either as a serpent or as a beautifully adorned goddess have her dance and slither her ways up the chakras, using the appropriate popular bijas per each chakra until it has reached the crown chakra, once she has reached, you visualize shiva and kundali/shakti performing intercourse, they are then to produce the white of semen and the red of menstruation, this is to become a singular pink elixir which you visualize going down the channels down to the base and back to the kula chakra.

Cont

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17574122]

>>17574111
This is not the major kundalini, this is the lowest form, daily perform your normative meditation and this over and over again daily until you have produced extreme bliss with this rising and descending of the goddess and the fluid. This is best understood to have succeeded when you travel the serpent/goddess to various parts of the chakras and feel a real change in the quality of your experience and differing levels of intense bliss.

In this time you should study the shiva sutras and perform the yogic techniques outlined in the shiva samhita, especially key is the meditation in it in which you imagine in the base or the kula chakra there dwells the God of desire, Kama, burning there in passion. You are to direct your desire and will to know Godhead towards him, imagining him as ending in deep fire almost instantly rising the entirety of the spine to the skull. Another key purification meditation is to visualize yourself and all that you love burning away, into ash, and all that remains is the God whom you love beneath the ashes.

I would recommend at this point some study of at least the spandakarikas and if possible, begin to work with a mahavidya, any will do but some will certainly be more appealing according to your preferences aesthetically (and this is of prime importance.)

They can be easily worked with by chanting their bijas, meditating upon their image, chanting their mantras and especially chanting their 108/1008 names before the full moon as a sadhana. Also work with these wrathful goddesses if possible within cemeteries, crossroads, abandoned buildings and so forth. All places of terrible presence where dwells extreme aesthetic modes.

These goddesses are the prime granters of siddhis, they teach the spiritual mysteries greater than any man possibly could. Communicate with them by chanting their mantras, meditating and allowing the aesthetic and the imagination to be possessed by them. This is the key in Vamachara. Of them all, while she is my favorite, I do not recommend you work with Dhumavati.

After you have done these things for a considerable amount of time, you will have produced much purification of your perception, likely have induced various siddhis and have been led by the mahavidya quite a bit, you should now be ready for the higher kundalini practices.

Cont

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17574133]

>>17574122
These will be tied to even more extreme experiences of terror and of pleasure and will require usually deeper sadhana/ritual/meditative practices given by the goddesses you have selected. (Note if you want the greatest chance for working with a mahavidya, out in the wild or outside at least, create a circle with the names of each of the mahavidyas, repeating over and over again, then taking a flower, repeat OM AIM HUM HUM HIM SVAHA 108 times at minimum, then breathe upon the flower, spin thrice (or thrice and a half time) and drop the flower. The name upon which the flower falls, that is the goddess whom you ought to work with.)


These following practices will gradually induce deeper states of turiya, which is the fourth mode of consciousness which is between/harmonizes waking conscious, dream, and sleeping consciousness. Which of these you can induce isn’t a question of practice but internal will and of desire. These practices will cause various visualized animals and objects to arise, I won’t describe them in detail but Kashmir shivaism secret supreme will have a small list.

One method however that is greatest and is the second tier of true kundalini which I believe all may induce is this, perform first your pranayama, then loading your mouth with much prana visualize a word or name or syllable, traditionally this is a bija such as OM, then swallow the air and visualize it going down the channel to the base of the spine, (if possible will that the prana spins within the closed mouth, if done properly and then swallowed you will clearly hear a sucking/draining sound when you swallow the breath/prana) and then imagine that this syllable travels out the spine to the crown of the head, and in doing this properly you will feel yourself unite with the Being and mysteries of the bija selected, inducing an incredible experience and knowledge concerning that bija(bijas being syllables which are reflections of the divine forms/logos, and these are the higher forms of the various goddesses who are all nothing but logoi)


Cont

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17574143]

>>17574133
You must then induce this unity state over and over and over, gradually you will become aware of the unity and division of yourself and the divine nature you have felt, and from here the true danger and difficulty manifests as we are moving towards the nirguna and highest Tattva forms of shiva/Shakti. You will meditate on this gap between the self and this conscious state, feeling first a kind of exhaustion, a choking feeling and a feeling of dread, keep going even as you feel this suffocation mouth, in terror you will hallucinate various things, continue focusing and focusing and force all of these to be mentally associated with your own ego and with God, producing bliss in this way. And eventually you will feel the terror of absolute death come upon you, and after this by Oath tantriks cannot speak of what you must do at this point but it will be obvious if you have followed the purification’s and instructions of the goddesses, and then after you have passed that, you enter the experience of true kundalini, the kundalini of shiva which is Adi-shakti herself, the universe as the coiled vibrating serpent, and you experience moksha/identification of your ego with shiva-shakti. You experience the nature of Sauh.

Note this experience can occur at any time prior to this rigorous practice, and much simpler means can be used, such as meditating upon your own heart and ego as the union of shiva and shakti whilst chanting SAUH and other such.


This is the broad strokes, I of course would prefer you read the books first and don’t just rush in like a mad man, but you very well can attain through this means.

By the way, tantra is all about technical explanations and instructions on practice. You’re not going to get vague allusions here.

[Anonymous No.17574148]

>>17574083
>a lot if these specifics get glossed over
It is assumed that you have correct posture usually. The thing is that it seems like common sense to not slouch, which is why I assume they don't even bother mentioning it.
>>shadowwork
>what does this mean
Confronting those parts of yourself you don't wish to see. The shadow holds the repressed parts like trauma, shame, fear, anxieties, sexuality issues, identity issues, repressed memories and the like. Things you haven't processed properly but have instead hidden away. Shadowwork is the process of calling forth these rejected parts and re-experience, understand, and accept and integrate them. You should look online for shadowwork prompts. You can also just think about your personal darkness directly. Whichever you feel more comfortable with.
Imagine a gay man who is deeply closeted because he was taught that he is not allowed to be gay. He will spend lots of time and energy to never be confronted with that part of his sexuality. Personally I have a fear of spiders, but I noticed at some point that it is much easier to sit and experience the fear of spiders rather than desperately trying to blot out any images of spiders. Eventually I got used to spiders and they don't freak me out nearly as much anymore as they used to.

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17574155]

>>17574111
>The first thing you should do is read the Bhairava tantra, it has 112 meditations. Experiment with these, it has so many because different people reach results with different methodologies. After you have found one or a couple that induce samadhi and so forth, meditate in this fashion for about an hour.

About an hour a day every day*

[Anonymous No.17574285]

>>17574111
Thank you very much for the effort, I hope you don't mind a few more questions.
>read the Bhairava tantra
Can I find this online?
>meditate in this fashion for about an hour.
By meditate here you mean rational contemplation in the old sense of the word or voiding your mind etc?
>using the appropriate popular bijas per each chakra
I won't ask you to explain what bijas are (I assume perhaps the chakra-specific mantras), but where can I find them?
>until it has reached the crown chakra
This can be done in just one meditation session or is it a long term goal?
>>17574122
>daily perform your normative meditation and this over and over again
I assume by normative meditation you are referring to self-aware breathing?
>study the shiva sutras and perform the yogic techniques outlined in the shiva samhita
Where can I find these texts and are these yogic techniques complicated? I have poor flexibility, admittedly.
>I would recommend at this point some study of at least the spandakarikas and if possible, begin to work with a mahavidya
Where can I find these texts too?
>I do not recommend you work with Dhumavati.
Out of mere curiosity, why?
>After you have done these things for a considerable amount of time
What are the time commitments like, both daily and over time? Does it take long to achieve the qualifications I mentioned earlier through self-initiation?
>perform first your pranayama
Where can I find the proper guidelines on this?
>Note this experience can occur at any time prior to this rigorous practice, and much simpler means can be used, such as meditating upon your own heart and ego as the union of shiva and shakti whilst chanting SAUH and other such.
Are there any drawbacks to these simpler methods? Generally the simpler and quicker the better it is for me. I would prefer some rudimentary qualifications before I tackle my journey full force.

[Anonymous No.17574302]

>>17574148
>Confronting those parts of yourself you don't wish to see. The shadow holds the repressed parts like trauma, shame, fear, anxieties, sexuality issues, identity issues, repressed memories and the like.
Isn't this just Jungian psychology?

[Anonymous No.17574326]

>>17574302
Yes. And it's beneficial.

[Anonymous No.17574338]

>>17574326
Are you sure you have achieved experience of the subtle body, anon?

[Anonymous No.17574358]

>>17574338
Yes. What makes you ask that? I'm not a jungian if that's what you're asking, and I'm definitely not an atheist or a materialist.

[Anonymous No.17574369]

>>17574358
My bad. It's just that you never know online. Some people suggest stuff like psychoanalysis for specific technical benefits, others propose it ideologically.

[Anonymous No.17574403]

>>17574369
I see. Personally I try to stay away from dogmas. Like that quote going "I contain multitudes" I consider myself both an idealist in some sense, and a pragmatist in another sense.

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17574482]

>>17574285
>Can I find this online?
https://archive.org/details/Vijnana-Bhairava-Tantra

> By meditate here you mean rational contemplation in the old sense of the word or voiding your mind etc?

Neither, use the method of meditation that you learn from the tantra, it contains many methods and this is simply because different methods work for different people. As such trial and experimentation will find which of the 112 meditations works the best for you. Once this is located you make this your normative method of meditation which you perform whenever you have the chance and become very comfortable with.

> I won't ask you to explain what bijas are (I assume perhaps the chakra-specific mantras), but where can I find them?

I won’t list all of them but i explain in the latter post what bijas are conceptually, you can find the chakra specific bijas easily, but the books I listed will have practical aspects and will cite the virtuous of various bijas. There is no excuse, you must read. Alternatively there are manuals that float around with lists but these aren’t very trustable in general as proper tantras.

> This can be done in just one meditation session or is it a long term goal?

Go as high as you can lift up the woman/serpent and feel stimulation within the area and bliss. When you reach a point that you cannot go above, you continue to work at it daily with purification, more kundalini practices and so forth until you can soar past that chakra.

> I assume by normative meditation you are referring to self-aware breathing?

Nah, the aforementioned Bhairava tantra meditation.

>where can I find these texts

http://www.gianfrancobertagni.it/materiali/tantra/singh.pdf

> Out of mere curiosity, why?

Goddess of bad luck, widows, suffering, loss, transience, experiences of all things negative, but also the end of time, samadhi deified, emptiness and silence, melancholy personified, lack of perception of God personified. Goddess of disease and sickness also.

She is identical to all of these things and if not worked with properly is thought to induce these, and will also grant these things as blessings to her adherents depending. Requires special effort not to get these.

> What are the time commitments like, both daily and over time? Does it take long to achieve the qualifications I mentioned earlier through self-initiation?

The tantriks would say this depends on Grace and your own readiness. This could take a single day/moment, 20 years, your entire life, never. It all depends. In general though the more wrathful the methodology you use, the quicker. The more terrible, the easier/faster. As such if you’re smearing your face with the ashes of the dead and invoking Dhumavati and so forth, it’ll likely happen pretty fast. The basic kundalini though won’t take that much effort.

> Where can I find the proper guidelines on this?

Cont

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17574523]

>>17574482
yoga sutras of patanjali, google since it’s such a popular thing it has been studied. The key is the calm moving of breath, never do anything that hurts your lungs or breathing, never do anything you find uncomfortable, do this along with visualizations of various lights and breathes going through the Channels and you’ll be fine. Again read the sutras.

> Are there any drawbacks to these simpler methods?

No, you just simply cannot successfully do them if you are of a lower quality of meditative power (which is what all that Anavopaya stuff was about. ) you can brute force the higher methods even if you’re not of a proper level, but doing this brute force method will increase the time needed to practice, train and increase your meditative force. The More complex and ritualistic, the more quick paced it is.

>Generally the simpler and quicker the better it is for me.

Haste is good but don’t be lazy.

>I would prefer some rudimentary qualifications before I tackle my journey full force.

Again, read the book list I shilled top to bottom and just work on daily meditation according to which form of meditation proves to be the most successful for you.

Hope this has been helpful!

[Anonymous No.17574592]

>>17573976
>the dumbfuck is a jungtard
color me surprised

[Anonymous No.17574631]

>>17573976
I think Jung is a really interesting thinker, but his followers are all retards. When some youtuber that analyzes fucking memes is honestly the least insufferable Jungian I can think of, you've got to reconsider some things.

[Anonymous No.17574636]

>>17570988
book of pleasure by osman spare
just everything by osman spare
liber null&psychonaut

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17574649]

>>17574636
If you’re going to give the guy Spare at least tell him to read the works/commentaries written by Grant concerning spare.

[Anonymous No.17574661]

>>17574482
>>17574523
I see, thank you very much.
>http://www.gianfrancobertagni.it/materiali/tantra/singh.pdf
I asked two questions about texts one after another, I am assuming this link has the answers to both of the questions I asked? Since you left one of them unquoted. Just asking to make sure I am not going to miss anything.
>Goddess of bad luck, widows, suffering, loss, transience, experiences of all things negative, but also the end of time, samadhi deified, emptiness and silence, melancholy personified, lack of perception of God personified. Goddess of disease and sickness also.
>She is identical to all of these things and if not worked with properly is thought to induce these, and will also grant these things as blessings to her adherents depending. Requires special effort not to get these.
Yeah that sounds pretty serious, lol.
>The tantriks would say this depends on Grace and your own readiness. This could take a single day/moment, 20 years, your entire life, never. It all depends. In general though the more wrathful the methodology you use, the quicker. The more terrible, the easier/faster. As such if you’re smearing your face with the ashes of the dead and invoking Dhumavati and so forth, it’ll likely happen pretty fast. The basic kundalini though won’t take that much effort.
I don't think I am suited to things that extreme. I feel like if I attained just the rudimentary qualifications it would be enough to me to really go forward, but the idea that I might never awaken is depressing. Is the basic kundalini easy to unlock or is the potential of it never being available also applicable to that?
>yoga sutras of patanjali, google since it’s such a popular thing it has been studied. The key is the calm moving of breath, never do anything that hurts your lungs or breathing, never do anything you find uncomfortable, do this along with visualizations of various lights and breathes going through the Channels and you’ll be fine. Again read the sutras.
If this is easy to find then I'll do it. I tend to ask these questions a lot because sometimes what I am advised to look into is simply inaccessible.
>Haste is good but don’t be lazy.
Running the risk of turning this into a blogpost, I must admit that laziness is a big problem I have, but I think my laziness is conditional on the feeling that nothing is worth the effort. If I achieve the qualifications I want or at least see them within reach, I think I have the capacity to work extremely hard. It's just that I am not sure I have the commitment to see the light in the end of the tunnel, so I look for as many shortcuts as I can find.
>Again, read the book list I shilled top to bottom and just work on daily meditation according to which form of meditation proves to be the most successful for you.
The books you told me about or all the books you have mentioned in the thread?
>Hope this has been helpful!
It has, very. Thank you.

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17574797]

>>17574661
>texts
Yes I gave two links, alternatively here, this link has a large tantric library with most if not all of the text I have mentioned.

https://the-eye.eu/public/Books/Temple_Of_Solomon_The_King/Eastern/

> I don't think I am suited to things that extreme. I feel like if I attained just the rudimentary qualifications it would be enough to me to really go forward, but the idea that I might never awaken is depressing. Is the basic kundalini easy to unlock or is the potential of it never being available also applicable to that?

I mean you could probably feel some of the early stages of the basic kundalini right now if you tried doing it. Practice makes perfect. In general though Vamachara is very extreme, that’s the point.

>easy to find

Just google yoga sutras of patanjali and you’ll receive a flood of links and translations and commentaries. Very easy and basic text which you should read even if you don’t pick Vamachara since it’s very universally used.

>blogpost

I understand, pray, meditate, contemplate and consider your options. If you think this outline is best, do it, if not, go in accordance with your will and your right mind. what more can be done? Kek.


> all the books you have mentioned in the thread?

The longer list of books beginning with shiva sutras and ending with the tantraloka.

[Anonymous No.17574842]

>>17574797
>I mean you could probably feel some of the early stages of the basic kundalini right now if you tried doing it.
If you can describe how to do that in two lines or less I am going to try it right now. I am not going to ask for more since you have already written like two essays for me lol.
>In general though Vamachara is very extreme, that’s the point.
Based but I live a pretty ordinary life, my Christian family might unironically disown me if I start smearing myself in the ashes of the dead or something like that. Put aside the logistical difficulties in finding dead people ashes.
>I understand, pray, meditate, contemplate and consider your options. If you think this outline is best, do it, if not, go in accordance with your will and your right mind. what more can be done? Kek.
True enough. Thanks.
>The longer list of books beginning with shiva sutras and ending with the tantraloka.
Also thanks. Sorry if I am dragging this conversation on, you gave me all I needed by now, so I am just chatting.

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17574883]

>>17574842
>If you can describe how to do that in two lines or less I am going to try it right now. I am not going to ask for more since you have already written like two essays for me lol

Imagine at the base/below the base is either the beautiful/wrathful goddess or a serpent coiled, focus there and really visualize deeply this, really really flesh it out, imagine within that part of your body is the open space or like a palace. I know that sounds hard but this is how it must be done, within you would be this goddess or this serpent, and you imagine her climbing/slithering/dancing upwards the body/spine, entering the chakras like palaces, or like pools, or like colored flames. One by one she does this, meditate her dance becomes much stronger and violent and sexually potent as she enters each chakra, really intensify these feelings, force yourself to be overwhelmed in this. The more lovely you can make her appear the better.


> Based but I live a pretty ordinary life, my Christian family might unironically disown me if I start smearing myself in the ashes of the dead or something like that. Put aside the logistical difficulties in finding dead people ashes.

You could just do Christian mysticism, bucko, read brother Lawrence, recite the psalms daily, check out molino’s spiritual guide, contemplate the Christ daily.

> Also thanks. Sorry if I am dragging this conversation on, you gave me all I needed by now, so I am just chatting.

It’s fine friend, really.

[Anonymous No.17575178]

>>17574883
>Imagine at the base/below the base is either the beautiful/wrathful goddess or a serpent coiled, focus there and really visualize deeply this, really really flesh it out, imagine within that part of your body is the open space or like a palace. I know that sounds hard but this is how it must be done, within you would be this goddess or this serpent, and you imagine her climbing/slithering/dancing upwards the body/spine, entering the chakras like palaces, or like pools, or like colored flames. One by one she does this, meditate her dance becomes much stronger and violent and sexually potent as she enters each chakra, really intensify these feelings, force yourself to be overwhelmed in this. The more lovely you can make her appear the better.
I tried it, but I am not entirely sure how it went. It's difficult for me to self-analyse the results of these things. I feel a bit more clear-minded now, but it might just be because towards the end my breathing got faster and made me a bit dizzy, so I might be oversupplied with oxygen. What definitely occurred was that I traced a path up the seven chakra centers and I felt that clearly, at least conceptually, if not necessarily spiritually, up to and including the fifth chakra. I am not sure if I engaged with anything spiritual at all in this, though. There were some very serious difficulties as well - I can't dance so I can't imagine any proper choreography, plus it's very hard to imagine someone moving from palace to palace "vertically". I visualised it as a horizontal movement from one palace to another, but tried to trace the course vertically across my spine. Keeping both the visualisation and the awareness of the spine at the same time was also difficult. Furnishing the palaces with unique and proper interior was another challenge. That would probably be something to go with a more long term project, as it stands all I could do on the fly was change the colours and some minor features.
>You could just do Christian mysticism, bucko, read brother Lawrence, recite the psalms daily, check out molino’s spiritual guide, contemplate the Christ daily.
I am not much good with Christianity, I grew up with it so it feels basically mundane and profane. I had one stranger experience when I was a child, but it came and went and that was that.

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17575222]

>>17575178
Don’t worry, physical sensation is the key. As for the colors and detail, more is better but since it’s your first time it’s fine. Should have stuck with vertical though. The dance should just be wild and sexual and uncontrolled.

> I am not much good with Christianity, I grew up with it so it feels basically mundane and profane. I had one stranger experience when I was a child, but it came and went and that was that.

Brother, the Christian mystical tradition is titanic, if you approach the mystical lit of the Bible and broader Christianity you’ll find spiritual depth, mysteries and a religion that is incredibly alien to the normative western conception of it. Don’t so quickly push aside the tradition that has such a great wealth and so easily before you.

In any case, don’t worry about if it was your mind or not, in tantra that doesn’t matter. All that matters Is you felt an effect, you experienced something and you should jump on and intensify that. Nothing else matters but intensifying experience.

[Anonymous No.17575325]

>>17575222
>Should have stuck with vertical though. The dance should just be wild and sexual and uncontrolled.
The issue with vertical is that palace gates are on the lowest levels, so I'd have to shift the scenery in some surreal way in order to visualise a movement upward. Maybe different levels of a single palace could work if I imagine ascending stairs, but that's not the same thing, I believe.
As to the dance, again the issue is the lack of choreography. Did you research that when you got started? It's difficult to come up with moves, especially ones that escalate progressively.
>
Brother, the Christian mystical tradition is titanic, if you approach the mystical lit of the Bible and broader Christianity you’ll find spiritual depth, mysteries and a religion that is incredibly alien to the normative western conception of it. Don’t so quickly push aside the tradition that has such a great wealth and so easily before you.
I tried to reconnect with Orthodoxy, which is imo the most mystically inclined branch of Christianity as well, but it's complicated. Ultimately, I don't feel resonance with the themes of the Christian religion, even if I could follow prayer rules etc.
>In any case, don’t worry about if it was your mind or not, in tantra that doesn’t matter. All that matters Is you felt an effect, you experienced something and you should jump on and intensify that. Nothing else matters but intensifying experience.
That's very liberating, actually. I never thought about it like that. It's because tantra takes maya as the basis, right? I knew that theoretically you use the experience of maya to transform yourself, but still expected that there would have to be a qualitative difference from the start for some reason.

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17575360]

>>17575325
>As to the dance, again the issue is the lack of choreography. Did you research that when you got started? It's difficult to come up with moves, especially ones that escalate progressively.

Nope, just think what would you find overwhelmingly erotic and potent, it’s just about stimulating your own perception. Don’t over think it. Same with ascending the chakras.

> I tried to reconnect with Orthodoxy, which is imo the most mystically inclined branch of Christianity as well, but it's complicated. Ultimately, I don't feel resonance with the themes of the Christian religion, even if I could follow prayer rules etc.

Eh, these things can be cultivated if given time for any religion. I’d shill just going basically protestant/Pentecostal mode and revving up as much ecstatic prayer as possible. But I understand your point, friend.

> That's very liberating, actually. I never thought about it like that. It's because tantra takes maya as the basis, right?

Correct. Perception is the only question. If you perceive it, it’s good enough.

[Anonymous No.17575452]

There is no such thing as "left-hand path" or "right-hand path" in western occultism. The middle path is the superior path, and people who identify as LHP are edgelords who just like Satan, Lucifer and Lilith because they're rebelling against their Christian parents

[Anonymous No.17575464]

>>17575452
What if my parents were atheists? Am I barred from satanism?

[Anonymous No.17575524]

>>17575360
I'll have to spend some time figuring this out, but I think this is a good start. I think I see a couple of my errors already, one of which was confusing tempo with power. Thank you for your help, I will be off for today but I will screenshot the entire thread tomorrow. Hopefully some terror-jannie won't nuke it by then, since there's been plenty of mentions of books.

[Anonymous No.17575577]

>>17573467
I am now in a place at work to return, however I am postang from a flipphone so please forgive my inability to qoute.
Ah! My apologies for misreading you, I thought you were speaking of the reverse notion, that political, pyschological or philosophical temperment was what wholey rooted was derived from in an individuals association with the occult, rather that it being a matter of correlation or predictability. What you say is atleast agreeable, I think it would be impossible for someone on the, say, American altermative right, to reconcile something like the LHP as we know it in the West, or vice versa.

[Anonymous No.17575636]

>>17571013
Imagine willingly becoming a slave to your body.
Gross. You have no individuality.

[Anonymous No.17575662]

>>17575636
Imagine thinking lhp is all about physical immortality. Retarded.

[Anonymous No.17575679]

>>17571391
Maybe if your body wasnt already addicted to jacking off and watching anime? But still doubtful.
I dont see how spending more time in the world could remove you from it...

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17575695]

>>17575452
This is basically correct.

>>17575524
Good luck.

[Anonymous No.17575703]

>>17575662
Then why do the all the left hand path edge lords do what they do huh?

[Anonymous No.17575731]

>>17575703
Like what?

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17575802]

>>17575703
Because they’re edgelords who read a bit of lavey, a bit of Crowley, a bit of edgy schlock and role playing stuff, at most some back water surf based on sabbatian Kabbalah and then just wing it/make it up as they go along. Again, it’s very modern but it has older reflections, like the edgelord cults throughout history inspired by the fantasy of witch craft cults as imagined by peasants, those spawned real cults trying to imitate the fantasy.

Edgelords gonna be edgelords.

[Anonymous No.17576903]

>>17575360
>just think what would you find overwhelmingly erotic and potent
Even if it's a latex clad shemale beckoning me to suck her dick and bend over? Yes, this is a serious question. Too much porn has fucked up my sexuality.

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17576911]

>>17576903
Too specific in symbolism for that, has to still be a female and her aesthetics will be very case dependent. Can’t be a male.

[Anonymous No.17576923]

>>17575577
>I think it would be impossible for someone on the, say, American altermative right, to reconcile something like the LHP as we know it in the West, or vice versa.
Ever heard of O9A, the Thule Society, and Julius Motherfucking Evola?

[Anonymous No.17576950]

>>17576911
I get that I can't visualize anyone with a penis, but I'm bisexual and swing mostly towards men, and I'm only attracted to women in specific circumstances. What am I to do?

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17576961]

>>17576950
I mean, tantra doesn’t mean sexual, you can induce and use the other kinds of senses and sensations, you can instead make her horrible, terrifying, disgusting and so forth. Tantra on a ontological/metaphysical level is basically against homosexuality though. You at most could identify with the shaktis and can fetishize the lingam. But really tantra’s not built for homosexuality and there’s non sexual rites and meditations which it’s filled to the brim with.

[Anonymous No.17577048]

>>17576923
I am relatively versed in Evola and consider him OK, but isnt calling his works wholey rightist a bit reductive. As for the Thule Society all I know is the trafficking with ayylmaos and Himmlers autism and the Order of The 9 Angles little but the name. Care to enlighten me?

[Anonymous No.17577051]

>>17576961
Alright, so tantra is out. At least that narrows down the list for me. What right hand paths are there? I don't believe in the progressive Christian bullshit that God made some people gay and they have carte blanche to suck cock. I really do think these urges are not organic and will, among other things, lead to my own destruction in body, soul, and spirit if left unchecked.I hear the call of the spiritual, but I lack the discipline.

[Anonymous No.17577067]

>>17575679
You spend time in the world whether you like it or not, what matters is how you react to the time spent.

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17577070]

>>17577051
I gotta run for the night but why not just follow the Will of your heart, if you believe homosexuality is evil it must be because you have a spiritual and moral reason to believe that, likely Christian in origin. Why not just go full force into it.

[Anonymous No.17577077]

>>17577048
O9A are basically neo-nazi satanists. By satanists, I mean the murder and torture kind and putting yourself through hardships like homelessness as initiation, not the cringe LeVayan kind.

[Anonymous No.17577106]

>>17577048
>but isnt calling his works wholey rightist a bit reductive
No, he literally wrote a book called A Handbook for Right-Wing Youth.

[Anonymous No.17577127]

>>17577077
Thank you for the information, thats pretty much what I figured. That may be an exception, but what I meant by altermative right was the vast swathe of Rightist thought which has no representation in the de facto Right, which is laughable, being anathema in idea to the philosophy of the LHP relative to what that one anon and I were discussing.

[Anonymous No.17577140]

>>17577106
He also called himself a superfascist in the sense of aiming above politics. Still, while I know Evola I do not know enough to argue which path his work aims towards, sloppy psuedoagripina work aside.

[Anonymous No.17577873]

>>17577140
Evola comes closer to the left hand path rather than the right hand path, although I believe that might just be due to force of circumstances in being born in a civilisation where the right hand path has experienced immense decline. His work is very varied, though.
>Yoga of Power - left hand
>Doctrine of Awakening - right hand
>Introduction to Magic - a mix of both
Ride the Tiger is also technically left hand path, although it's not an explicitly "spiritual" book.

[Anonymous No.17577876]

>>17570988
Take drugs and be gay, the rest will come naturally.

[Anonymous No.17577889]

>>17571298
>>>17570988 (OP)
>they vamachara is banned in india
>wonder what that means

means pajeet don't support

[Anonymous No.17578495]

>>17577889
they're still hindus and they created the vama system

[Anonymous No.17578580]

>>17571013
thats not what the RHP is dumbass

[Anonymous No.17578895]

>>17571737
Absolute beginner here. Can this be combined with Neidan? What about working with entities?

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17579333]

>>17578895
No particular reason why not, such has occurred historically.
The Matrikabheda tantra gets a bit into alchemy. I also explain the basics of working with a mahavidya in this very same thread.

[Anonymous No.17579556]

>>17573993
How risky is it to do a kundalini awakening alone?
Once you've done it, what are the next steps, assuming you want to stay independent and walk the spiritual path alone?

[Anonymous No.17579858]

>>17575222
>Nothing else matters but intensifying experience.
Not the guy you responded to. Does that mean that tantra is the best path for me if I want to carve my own path and not be weighed down by symbols and liturgy from another tradition?
I tried the 100% secular stuff with the Gateway process but it gave no results.
I'm not too worried about finding the meaning of life or becoming enlightened, I think these are basically red herrings and there's no need for such pursuits. I just want to experience my existence viscerally, see what else this reality has to offer aside from the purely physical and without getting tied up in religious dogmatism. Tantra seems like a good method for that. Am I wrong?

[Anonymous No.17579917]

>>17575222
>Brother, the Christian mystical tradition is titanic, if you approach the mystical lit of the Bible and broader Christianity you’ll find spiritual depth, mysteries and a religion that is incredibly alien to the normative western conception of it. Don’t so quickly push aside the tradition that has such a great wealth and so easily before you.
That sounds interesting, can you say more about this? Maybe a small reading list?

[Anonymous No.17580084]

This is a pretty good thread holy shit

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17580152]

>>17579858
>Not the guy you responded to. Does that mean that tantra is the best path for me if I want to carve my own path and not be weighed down by symbols and liturgy from another tradition?

Not really, tantra is one of the most heavily ritualistic and so forth traditions you could go for. Ultimately all of these will require ritualism, study of dogma and so forth, but perhaps the ideas of Austin osman spare and of William Blake are of interest, alternatively Crowley’s scientific illuminism (as explained in soldier and the hunchback and liber ABA) could perhaps be for you.

>I tried the 100% secular stuff with the Gateway process but it gave no results.
>I'm not too worried about finding the meaning of life or becoming enlightened, I think these are basically red herrings and there's no need for such pursuits. I just want to experience my existence viscerally, see what else this reality has to offer aside from the purely physical and without getting tied up in religious dogmatism. Tantra seems like a good method for that. Am I wrong?

Oh you’ll definitely get experiences fast if you put in the work, key though, tantra assumes you’ll do a lot of work fast, if you’re willing to spend hours in a grave yard chanting mantras and doing invocations you’ll see oddities.

>>17579917
I mean anything from pseudo Dionysus, cloud of knowing, molinos spiritual guide, Arbatel, John Dee, Paracelsus, trithemius, agrippa, Jacob boehme’s works, Jane Leade, Marguerite Porete, the hekhalot tradition, all of the monastic mysticism of the cistercians, Bonaventure’s methodology in his road to God, Hugh of Saint Victor and on and on, besides there’s so many grimoires and books on occult/magical practices like the Liber Juratus.

Begin with the Bible, early church fathers and the writings of Dionysius. Or molino’s spiritual guide is also accessible. But again Christianity is titanic.

[Anonymous No.17580167]

>>17571376
>The actual left hand path, which is the hindu Vamachara is actually an extreme devotion form of Nondual shivaism dedicated to using the sense pleasures and creation and maya/the illusion world as the revelation of god and means of knowing god, so they will consume their own feces, consume semen, break their own taboos and so forth but they would do this not over some sexual gratification but to see God in it and to sacrifice every part of their experience and life to God which they see all reality as. I’ll post a prayer poem by abhinavagupta to give you an idea what it’s like in reality.
Sounds absolutely haram to me!

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17580221]

>>17580167
Well, yeah, but there are actually points of Sufi/Islamic syncretism/synthesis, Ayin al Qudat being my favorite of these but also the entire Shattariyya order of Sufi mystics fuse various yogic and tantric traditions, even denying faana for affirmation of ego and appearance.

[Anonymous No.17580263]

>>17580221
I am not Muslim I just like the meme.
How is that supposed to work anyway, why does eating your feces causes you to see God.

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17580294]

>>17580263
Read the full thread, eating feces has no inherent value, the general idea is that Shiva, God is everything. The only divisions man has from god being perception flaws, Misinterpretations. Thus by forcing yourself to see the ugliest and most non-divine things as divine, you are forced to see all as divine. Also the more extreme experiences force you into trance and mystical states, into exotic forms of perception and in these you gain strange knowledge concerning the nature of god and nature.

If you want a full explanation, read this, I explain the Tattva ontology of tantra and how it accounts for their Nonduality, view of Maya, filth, evil and so forth.

https://pastebin.com/AjzfzFTk

[Anonymous No.17580329]

>>17580294
I don't believe in spirituality but I have to admit the whole system is p. interesting

[Anonymous No.17580345]

>>17580084
>pic
love that paintaing, but its one of the few times where I feel adding an apu really takes away from it

[Anonymous No.17580361]

>>17570988
>muh dichotomynigger
it's already been said so I'm not going to try and say it better
>But of magic I wrote whilst I was very young three large books, which I called Of Occult Philosophy, in which what was then through the curiosity of my youth erroneous, I now being more advised, am willing to have retracted, by this recantation; I formerly spent much time and costs in these vanities. At last I grew so wise as to be able to dissuade others from this destruction. For whosoever do not in the truth, nor in the power of God, but in the deceits of devils, according to the operation of wicked spirits presume to divine and prophesy, and practising through magical vanities, exorcisms, incantions and other demoniacal works and deceits of idolatry, boasting of delusions, and phantasms, presently ceasing, brag that they can do miracles, I say all these shall with Jannes and Jambres, and Simon Magus, be destinated to the torments of eternal fire

[Anonymous No.17580729]

>>17580152
>tantra is one of the most heavily ritualistic
Oh. From what I gathered from this thread I really got the impression kundalini was much more of a method than a religion.
What matters the most to me is being able to create my own aesthetic to an extent, since kundalini or tantra in general relies a lot on imagination and visualization I thought it would be a good fit.
Maybe I was being a bit too harsh — rituals are fine, some level of dogma is alright, I just don't want to become a "convert" if you know what I mean. I have my own beliefs and I want to find a method I can use to explore reality; not become a member of a specific religion and have to believe in all of its tenets and follow its system, etc. Am I being too particular?
Didn't you say Crowley wasn't very good?
>hours in a grave yard chanting mantras and doing invocations
Logistically going to graveyards and whatnot is gonna be difficult but I have a lot of time to spare, if anything.

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17581005]

>>17580729
>Oh. From what I gathered from this thread I really got the impression kundalini was much more of a method than a religion.

Kundalini is a method within a religion, like how Hesychasm is a method in orthodox stuff.

>What matters the most to me is being able to create my own aesthetic to an extent, since kundalini or tantra in general relies a lot on imagination and visualization I thought it would be a good fit.

You’d still be heavily based in the Hindu imagery and symbolism. You’re better off with hermeticism of the likes of William Blake.

>Maybe I was being a bit too harsh — rituals are fine, some level of dogma is alright, I just don't want to become a "convert" if you know what I mean. I have my own beliefs and I want to find a method I can use to explore reality;

Understandable but tantra is very much a religion, literal worship of the human guru is common.

>not become a member of a specific religion and have to believe in all of its tenets and follow its system, etc. Am I being too particular?

Eh, it’s your beliefs Anon, you do you.

>Didn't you say Crowley wasn't very good?

He’s fine as an introduction and a major part of his system along with spare is going to various systems and not believing in them but larping about it and creating your own system and aesthetic patchwork from this. He didn’t invent this but he’s very accessible. Again not the best but accessible. Spare and chumbley are much (especially chumbley) much much better, but I don’t mean to offend, without the education in broader esotericism you simply will be filtered/won’t understand what they’re getting at.

[Anonymous No.17581374]

>>17581005
>Kundalini is a method within a religion
Earlier you posted a very clear set of instructions on how to perform a kundalini awakening on your own. Couldn't I just follow that?
I'm not too familiar with hinduism as a whole, so I'd make an effort to learn about it more in-depth first. I just wouldn't identify as a hinduist.
>You’re better off with hermeticism
Hermeticism has practices similar to kundalini yoga? I like the very hands-on approach of yoga, a clear set of steps I can go through with tangible and generally quick results.
>tantra is very much a religion, literal worship of the human guru is common.
The method you posted doesn't involve a human guru, does it?
So what is the object of worship? The coiled snake itself? Why is worship necessary instead of, say, a teacher-student relationship with whichever deity is invoked?
I'm very careful of things that require abandonment through worship because I don't want to lose myself or become subordinate to another being. I guess you could adopt a jungian approach by considering the invoked entities to not be distinct from oneself, and that would be fine with me but would it work as well?
>it's your beliefs
No offense intended in any of my posts by the way, it's just that I can't get into something that has me rely on an external power rather than one I can gather from inside myself. This is very important to me. I guess that's very LHP-like although I don't believe in that particular dichotomy.
>creating your own system and aesthetic patchwork from this.
Do you think this is a legitimate method, or an inefficient one?

[Anonymous No.17581406]

>>17581005
Not the guy you are speaking to, but you seem to know a bunch about tantra and kundalini so I am going to ask you this.
Do you have an opinion on Shaktipaat? Is it something that just works and instantly initiates people, so long as you receive it from a qualified teacher? Does it require any preparations? From what I have gathered, the effect of Shaktipaat dissipates over time unless the receiving party performs certain operations afterwards, although I am not sure I am correct on that. Additionally, is Shaktipaat sufficient to awaken all the fundamental spiritual faculties? I am thinking along the lines of what the anons mentioned earlier - control of the subtle body, spiritual sight, awareness etc.

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17581709]

>>17581374
>Earlier you posted a very clear set of instructions on how to perform a kundalini awakening on your own. Couldn't I just follow that?

Sure but that’s still inherently religious and presupposes the metaphysics of tantra are correct. The entire idea that all perception/awareness is shakti who is represented by the coiled serpent and is identical to her would be one. Same to the number of chakras, the bija mantras are considered the higher forms of the deities etc. you could practice it and see what happens but from a tantric view, it’s still very religious, you can do this with the methodology of any religion friend.

>I'm not too familiar with hinduism as a whole, so I'd make an effort to learn about it more in-depth first. I just wouldn't identify as a hinduist.

Understandable.

> Hermeticism has practices similar to kundalini yoga? I like the very hands-on approach of yoga, a clear set of steps I can go through with tangible and generally quick results.

Ceremonial magic and ritual/meditation stuff with step by step processes exists in most religious traditions, example in hermeticism you would be performing a lot of planetary and elemental rituals, see the PGM and a grimoire like the heptameron, the picatrix is another text. Again don’t be lazy with that quick result line.

> The method you posted doesn't involve a human guru, does it?

It doesn’t but most of tantra does, and even so you’re still working with various deities.

>So what is the object of worship? The coiled snake itself? Yes and the goal of it all, shiva. Shiva is the goal of all of these practices, kundalini is just a means of attaining the realization of the deity of Shiva, the various siddhis generated are side perks and helpful on the way.

>Why is worship necessary instead of, say, a teacher-student relationship with whichever deity is invoked?

Because that’s how it’s done and why these things were created, Kek. You could apply this reasoning to basically any religion and methodology, not that I’m trying to stop you it’s just that this is considered a inherently religious and devotion based thing.

>I'm very careful of things that require abandonment through worship because I don't want to lose myself or become subordinate to another being.

The tantrik would say there is no difference between your ego and the nature of shiva, and would probably say various nasty things about not wanting to submit to shiva. But I understand your opinion.

> I guess you could adopt a jungian approach by considering the invoked entities to not be distinct from oneself, and that would be fine with me but would it work as well?

The tantrik would say it’s already you, but again, you’re missing a titanic amount of context of what any of these deities and symbols mean. It would be more beneficial to study some of the literature before hopping into practice and seeing if you even agree with the theory.


Cont

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17581745]

>>17581709
> No offense intended in any of my posts by the way, it's just that I can't get into something that has me rely on an external power rather than one I can gather from inside myself. This is very important to me. I guess that's very LHP-like although I don't believe in that particular dichotomy.


Again see my earlier post, there’s no such thing as an individuality focused LHP, Vamachara/LHP is as hard into nondualism and devotion to God as you can possibly Go. Which i know sounds very odd due to the western conception of it, but that’s why I complain so much about the misunderstanding of Blavatsky and theosophy on this regard, as they are the ones who began the spread of LHP vs RHP larp.

In any case, in tantra all of this is considered Nondual so it wouldn’t be outside of you, but rather shiva is the nature of all Ego, shakti (whom is kundalini) is the nature of all object-perception, their union is the union of all opposites which is the ultimate result of the marriage that occurs when the serpent enters the skull. And this state is called samadhi.

> Do you think this is a legitimate method, or an inefficient one?

In the beginning it is inefficient and it is better to learn one system entirely and then modify it. But it is essential and inevitable that one shall eventually create their own system with their own aesthetic and philosophical twists as led through their contemplation and experiences. That’s simply how it goes.

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17581795]

>>17581406
>Do you have an opinion on Shaktipaat? Is it something that just works and instantly initiates people, so long as you receive it from a qualified teacher?

I want you to think of the western concept of someone laying hands upon a person and filling them with the Holy Spirit within a charismatic church, this is fundamentally the same idea.

What is Shakti, it means energy or perception or awareness, in this case awareness of a particular aspect of Shiva as manifested as the goddess that grants the various siddhis and realizations, what then is Shaktipaat, a method to forcibly induce an experience of this shakti/goddess and integrate the awareness and realization through this automatically.

> From what I have gathered, the effect of Shaktipaat dissipates over time unless the receiving party performs certain operations afterwards

This is common to spiritual awakening and realization and cultivation of shakti in general, the way to stabilize it is continual practice, cultivation, writing of philosophical theory, poetry, methodology and so forth. It is largely dependent on how much you strive to keep the level of awareness.

> Additionally, is Shaktipaat sufficient to awaken all the fundamental spiritual faculties? I am thinking along the lines of what the anons mentioned earlier - control of the subtle body, spiritual sight, awareness etc.

Dependent upon who gives it, how much they give, how well you receive it, your own capacities and so forth. And again all of this shouldn’t be done with focus on spiritual powers but rather fixation on knowledge, in gaining the realization of the nature of Shiva

[Anonymous No.17581916]

>>17581709
>that’s still inherently religious
At this point I accepted the fact that I'm not going to advance with a purely exclusionary and secular mindset, since irreligious systems of spiritual attainment don't really exist. So I'm gonna have to get my feet wet and choose a tradition to work with. But is it really sincere if I remain skeptical of the purely religious claims it makes? How much will it hinder me to treat it as a method first and foremost (a bit like the traditionalists do)?
>all perception/awareness is shakti who is represented by the coiled serpent
>bija mantras
>chakras
It's not that I don't believe in these things; again Jung had a way of taking the profound symbology of religions and turning it into a reflection of the individual himself, which I find very interesting and intuitively sensible even though I'm not much into psychoanalysis. But of course religions would disagree and take it as offensive that you would "use" the principles they take as absolute in such a way.
>you could practice it and see what happens
I'm going to do this. Actually I'm getting interested in tantric yoga because I'm not getting much results with samatha meditation, I want something more personal and visceral if that makes sense.
>the heptameron, the picatrix is another text
Thank you friend, I'll look into hermeticism too.
>you’re still working with various deities.
I'd rather work with such beings, that's fine.
>the goal of it all, shiva
Shiva is the primordial force that creates and (most notably) destroys, right? Then the goal of kundalini is to fully realize and identify with this all-pervading essence?
Following the experience, is the individual fused with this essence, or is the essence integrated and sublimed by the individual? Or neither/doesn't apply?
>not that I’m trying to stop you
Well if it doesn't work to treat the deities this way then I'd be practicing for nothing.
>various nasty things about not wanting to submit to shiva.
Like what?
>you’re missing a titanic amount of context
Yeah I'm aware. You recommended several books about tantra ITT, which one is the most relevant to the understanding of the symbology and practices of kundalini and their meaningfulness?
> it is essential and inevitable that one shall eventually create their own system with their own aesthetic
You mean every system leads to branching out and developing your own thing? Then there's no problem. Did this happen for you as well, even though you remain a Christian?

[Anonymous No.17581944]

>>17581795
>I want you to think of the western concept of someone laying hands upon a person and filling them with the Holy Spirit within a charismatic church, this is fundamentally the same idea.
>What is Shakti, it means energy or perception or awareness, in this case awareness of a particular aspect of Shiva as manifested as the goddess that grants the various siddhis and realizations, what then is Shaktipaat, a method to forcibly induce an experience of this shakti/goddess and integrate the awareness and realization through this automatically.
This is a bit confusing because in my experience "charismatic" experiences don't accomplish anything at all but from your description it would appear that Shaktipaat simply works.
>This is common to spiritual awakening and realization and cultivation of shakti in general, the way to stabilize it is continual practice, cultivation, writing of philosophical theory, poetry, methodology and so forth. It is largely dependent on how much you strive to keep the level of awareness.
Interesting. But once you achieve a certain state, you can not fall from it, right? This is bringing up another tradition, but for example with Buddhism - once you reach Nirvana, you can't just suddenly lose your actualisation.
>Dependent upon who gives it, how much they give, how well you receive it, your own capacities and so forth. And again all of this shouldn’t be done with focus on spiritual powers but rather fixation on knowledge, in gaining the realization of the nature of Shiva
Also very interesting. To clarify, I am not interested in "the powers" per se, it's just that the faculties for spiritual awareness are, in my eyes, the mark that you have achieved and actualised true knowledge.

[Anonymous No.17582092]

I just love it when delusional fucks think that shit being old automatically makes it better. Satanism? That's CRINGE! I know because I once saw an 8th grader wear a pentagram t-shirt! I saw a Vice video on Satanism once! That shit's phony, I know because asfdkjgbaslkdjfb, I can just tell. No I want a 3,000 year old book written by some Pajeet that thought he would become one with the universe if he jerked off with his own shit often enough. That's real, that's esoteric, that's magic, I've seen movies. In movies the real shit is all old and antique and spooky, it's not real wisdom if it's not coming out of a comically large book that you have to blow dust off of to read the cover. I want to be magic wizard man like I've seen on the TV, but I'm too smart to fall for the obvious fake stuff, so don't try to pull one over on me by giving me resources that aren't aesthetically pleasing enough.

Fucking bunch of uninitiated yoga fetishists.

[Anonymous No.17582115]

Does Evola actually give any practical exercises, or is it all academic a la Frances Yates?
Academic works have their place, but I consider them pointless if the practice doesn't produce results.

[Anonymous No.17582201]

>>17582092
>Satanism? That's CRINGE!
It's cringe because
(i) when traditional, it's a nod to Christian dogma and therefore reeks of daddy issues. It's cringe because Christianity is cringe.
(ii) when non-traditional, it's a pointlessly glamorized take on existing philosophies of Nietzsche, Stirner, Rand, etc. In fact, LaVey's Satanic Bible plagiarized huge chunks of Might Is Right by "Ragnar Redbeard." Verbatim.

[Anonymous No.17582531]

>>17573584
So maybe I'm missing something from the previous discussion, but what then is the status of art that induces the negative or 'evil'? Think something like hedonic or destructive music (hardcore punk, death metal), the decadent writers, or existentialist fiction. Does it serve some similar LHP explorative function? There is sense of aesthetic truth and authenticity behind many works that seem to outright negate a spiritually positive end that always jack up any reconciling of art and spirituality for me.

[Anonymous No.17582702]

>>17582092
There's nothing wrong with yoga

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17582838]

>>17581916
>But is it really sincere if I remain skeptical of the purely religious claims it makes? How much will it hinder me to treat it as a method first and foremost (a bit like the traditionalists do)?


As long as you can get inflamed, suspend your disbelief and truly in the moment of practice believe it, you should be fine.

>jung etc

I mean, understandable Anon and you’re free to modify as you see fit, I generally believe you’ll understand and appreciate a tradition more if you immerse and approach it first as it wants to be approached, let the model explain itself to you, know what I mean.

> I'm going to do this. Actually I'm getting interested in tantric yoga because I'm not getting much results with samatha meditation, I want something more personal and visceral if that makes sense.

Totally logical, try out that Bhairava tantra I linked, I’d be surprised if one of the 112 meditations methods in there didn’t do something interesting for your perception.

> Shiva is the primordial force that creates and (most notably) destroys, right? Then the goal of kundalini is to fully realize and identify with this all-pervading essence?
Following the experience, is the individual fused with this essence, or is the essence integrated and sublimed by the individual? Or neither/doesn't apply?

Shiva is all, shiva creates, sustains and destroys, he is both the essence and the accidental, the particular and the universal, there is no fusion of essence because it is only shiva, there is no giving up into shiva as there is only shiva, there is no corruption because all stems from shiva etc.

Kundalini is the goddess kundali who is the goddess shakti, the practice of kundalini is taking shakti who is your object perception and marrying her to shiva, who is your own subjective ego.

>like what

I mean, throw their shit at you, mock you, say they’ll rip your head off, depends on the tantrik, some are vegetarians, some eat folks. Depends on the tantrik, friend.

> Yeah I'm aware. You recommended several books about tantra ITT, which one is the most relevant to the understanding of the symbology and practices of kundalini and their meaningfulness?

Kundalini is shakti, to understand you need to understand the entire model and context and goddess, especially the deeper metaphysics. So all of them, in particular the spandakarikas.

> You mean every system leads to branching out and developing your own thing? Then there's no problem. Did this happen for you as well, even though you remain a Christian?

Pretty much, I mean in the Christian tradition there’s a reason why there’s thousands of different manuals and methods and schemas for contemplation and meditation and mystical states. Same with all world religions. Once more, Bonaventure is different from molino’s is different from st Teresa etc. that’s simply how things develop, you are guided by the experiences.

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17582895]

>>17581944
>This is a bit confusing because in my experience "charismatic" experiences don't accomplish anything at all

I mean I certainly disagree, I’ve seen people who with extreme faith are touched by charismatic preachers and then feel a rush of the Holy Spirit and suddenly their minds and lives change quite a bit. I know this is more religious than you lads might like to hear but it’s the same principle.

>but from your description it would appear that Shaktipaat simply works.

It’s simply more focused and again if you have not “grace” if shiva grants it not, you’ll receive nothing even if transmitted.

> Interesting. But once you achieve a certain state, you can not fall from it, right?

I certainly disagree, you can totally fall and forget and backslide from levels of realization and fall back down to less refined ways of thinking and experience. If you are not constantly refining, you are necessarily decaying.

>This is bringing up another tradition, but for example with Buddhism - once you reach Nirvana, you can't just suddenly lose your actualisation.


Nirvana isn’t a mental realization (well depends on the tradition) it’s an annihilation of the desire aggregates (killing what constitutes a soul in other models) and this annihilation is more like admixing the accidental aspects of being with the universal relational nature which pervades them as their existence as dharmas (see any Abhidharma system work of nagarjuna on co-dependent origination) but even so, consider Zen, they argue the moment you are not grasping you are identical to Buddha-nature, but the second you grasp, you become angry or the like, you abandon Buddha nature and fall. Thus rest is key to the zen of bankei. So you can 100% lessen in quality.

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17582971]

>>17581944
>Also very interesting. To clarify, I am not interested in "the powers" per se, it's just that the faculties for spiritual awareness are, in my eyes, the mark that you have achieved and actualised true knowledge.

That’s fair enough.

>>17582531
>So maybe I'm missing something from the previous discussion, but what then is the status of art that induces the negative or 'evil'? Think something like hedonic or destructive music (hardcore punk, death metal),

That’s fine, there’s tons of wrathful stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hp1HubAcaTQ pic related and this mantra would be examples of some pretty wrathful deities. Or here, a Hindu sage who attained by Pure anger.

https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durvasa

>the decadent writers, or existentialist fiction. Does it serve some similar LHP explorative function?

Not necessarily but it CAN be used for that, let us consider the decadent literature, if we read huysmans he at some point very much summarizes what the decadent is, to paraphrase he says it is the end of the time period, when all has become ornate and memories of the past have rotten, that it is like a pool of memories and upon it foams the white of melancholy, decay and nostalgia. This is none other than the goddess Dhumavati and cultivation of this extreme can be used, if you perceive God in it and his emptiness in it. All things become purified by the fire of knowledge. All Art can be used if you can purify it by knowledge and consideration of God, devotion to God.

>There is sense of aesthetic truth and authenticity behind many works that seem to outright negate a spiritually positive end that always jack up any reconciling of art and spirituality for

Check out some Richard Wagner and this path of aesthetic/art is going to be less one of coomsooming, and more of creation of art, and if not creating it must be of the highest caliber, the highest refinement. To quote Wagner, the true man is a nature made conscious of itself, and the true art is man made conscious of itself. This is why I point to someone like William Blake so much.

[Anonymous No.17583211]

>>17582838
>you’ll understand and appreciate a tradition more if you immerse and approach it first as it wants to be approached
I get it, you mentioned suspension of disbelief and that I can definitely manage, after all if I was a rigid skeptic I wouldn't bother looking into traditions.
>taking shakti who is your object perception and marrying her to shiva, who is your own subjective ego.
Not sure I get it (it'll become clearer once I learn more about the metaphysics I'm sure) but realization in tantra basically leads to a nondual experience yeah?
Anyway, thanks for your help.

[Anonymous No.17583996]

What would happen if I just repeated the Krishna mantra in my head non stop, during meditation, daily activities etc, like the Jesus prayer?

[Anonymous No.17585182]

Bump

[Anonymous No.17586236]

>>17583996
Faith equal to a mustard seed gas

[Anonymous No.17586595]

>tfw you will never collect a thousand skulls of your enemies, grind them into a paste and create an idol to cover in cum and pussy juice over the next 10 years to gain magical powers

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17586687]

>>17586595
Based and Tachikawa pilled

[Anonymous No.17587083]

>>17570988
I usually use my right-hand but ever since i went down the left-hand path, my fapping experience has changed. It has been more real, more intimate, more pleasurable, and the thoughts that ooze out of my post-ejaculate reveries have been profoundly mystical.

[Anonymous No.17587234]

>>17571376
If there is no such thing as LHP how am I supposed to achieve CHIM

[Anonymous No.17587246]

>>17575360
If you consider there to be no salvation outside of Christ why are you helping people self-initiate into systems that will lead to their damnation?

[Anonymous No.17587720]

>>17582115
He literally wrote 3 books on magical practice.

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17588408]

>>17587246
I believe there is no evil in knowledge, but rather in the perception and usage of knowledge. I believe God is Truth, what is the relationship of knowledge to truth?

Knowledge is the multiplicity of truth, truth is knowledge the unity of knowledge. Knowledge is the sensual part, Truth the form. I believe this is the case for literally every atomic piece of knowledge. If they desire to know a mystery and if I knew it, I could not in accordance with my ethics keep it hidden.

[Anonymous No.17588467]

>>17588408
>I believe there is no evil in knowledge

And what of how the knowledge is presented, or the the omission of knowledge, or the subtle ways something may be emphasized or not? Because you seem to make one off hand remark in this thread about being a Christian, possibly believing in eternal damnation, and yet the offer people information that in accordance with your world view would lead them to their doom with nothing in the way of a warning or commentary. I don't think someone who believes that the stakes are as high as they are can afford the illusion and luxury or feigning impartiality or neutrality as you are a being and not an encyclopaedia. It is like seeing a suicidal man standing at the cliff's edge, making a casual factual remark that the fall will kill them, but attempting in no way to actually talk them off jumping.

[Anonymous No.17588476]

>>17588467
The fact that he's not a dumb proselyte is partly why his posts are good

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17588497]

>>17588467
>And what of how the knowledge is presented, or the the omission of knowledge, or the subtle ways something may be emphasized or not?

They clearly know from the viewpoint of most religions they’re damning themselves by following another, and this is why I made clear in earlier posts that tantra is not some secular method but is in fact a religion and would require the adaption of a religious view.

>Because you seem to make one off hand remark in this thread about being a Christian, possibly believing in eternal damnation,

Which they would fully know, and prior to my bringing it up they were discussing the Blavatsky inspired definition of the terms which modern western satanism and the sinister tradition thrives on, which actively advocates drug use, anti Christian behavior, gang violence, Satan worship and so forth. Again, people know what the risk is when they look into other religions.

>and yet the offer people information that in accordance with your world view would lead them to their doom with nothing in the way of a warning or commentary.

If someone asked me how the suicide bag method worked, I would explain in much the same way. If someone asked me about historical Greek religion and mysteries, I would explain in much the same day. All logos, minimal pathos.

>I don't think someone who believes that the stakes are as high as they are can afford the illusion and luxury or feigning impartiality or neutrality as you are a being and not an encyclopaedia.

I would desire to be a human encyclopedia. If I could eradicate any partiality and have total knowledge, that would be lovely.

>It is like seeing a suicidal man standing at the cliff's edge, making a casual factual remark that the fall will kill them, but attempting in no way to actually talk them off jumping.

Nah it would be more like a person saying they want to jump off a bridge and asking where’s the next bridge, so I explain the closest bridge in nuance.

[Anonymous No.17588516]

>>17587234
What would be the closest thing to CHIM in real-world traditions?

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17588557]

>>17588516
>>17587234

Chim is a tantra reference, I was mocked before but I will repeat that elder scrolls has a deep integration of world religion into its lore.

CHIM the syllable is identical to either the HRIM or KRIM Bija. Both of these signifying kali/maya and identification with these.

Zero-Sum would be most akin to buddhist especially early buddhist consumptions of attainment of sunyata/arahantship

Chim would be most akin to attainment in most systems/adepthood, again, see Enoch becoming the lesser YHVH, metatron, Elijah becoming sandalphon, Arjuna as Vishnu/Krishna/Indra and so forth. The model for what it looks like in the elder scrolls, especially based in the sermons, is largely based in Thelema. The creation myth/s are mostly minglings of Kabbalistic and Hindu ideas.

[Anonymous No.17588567]

>>17588497
Sorry, but this all sounds like a cope for you trying to wash your hands of any responsibility to your fellow man, but you can't have it both ways because responsibility is the flipside of knowledge and runs counter to the kind of robotic impartiality you seem to want. You can desire to be a machine that spits out facts when the right buttons are pushed, but this is limiting spiritually.

[Anonymous No.17588576]

>>17588557
>Chim would be most akin to attainment in most systems/adepthood
I thought most systems, especially Christianity and Hinduism were closer to the zero-sum path where your individuality dissolves into the divine. Isn't that exactly what henosis is? Similarly moksha is the realization that you were always part of Brahman.

[Anonymous No.17588586]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmTNXLSn4ss&t=4439s

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17588601]

>>17588567
Eh, I’ve always had a lot amount of passion/emotion, if I could have absolute impartiality I would. As for responsibility to my fellow man. I don’t have any responsibility to him, I have responsibility to God and my conception of the Good. As I believe God is knowledge and Knowledge is always Good, I do not see any error.

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17588638]

>>17588576
>I thought most systems, especially Christianity and Hinduism were closer to the zero-sum path where your individuality dissolves into the divine. Isn't that exactly what henosis is? Similarly moksha is the realization that you were always part of Brahman.

To quote Meister echkart, there is fusion but not confusion. All Christian descriptions of heaven aren’t of static dullness but of perichoresis.

John 14:20
New International Version
20 On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.

Thus the same way there is maintaining of persons/ego within the trinity, so also are they retained, maximized, perfected, and enriched by their mutual closeness to each other through love and the body of Christ. Just as the father is no less a person because of his closeness to Christ, so also is man no less a person due to his closeness to Christ. Rather the potential of man and his actuality become United in the person of the man. Making his identity reach the highest possible concentration and force possible.

Much the same is the case in much of Hinduism as Moksha is cleaving to the interior Brahman that pervades all and is the manifest all, it isn’t escape into nirguna, this is a common argument point between Vedanta and Buddhism. It’s more a modern (especially due to popularizers) view that they think every tradition has identical attainments and they are all melting into a static oneness. The history is that this is simply not true.

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17588644]

>>17588601
>Eh, I’ve always had a lot amount of passion/emotion

Whoops,

Meant to say

“Eh, I’ve always had a low amount of passion/emotion

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17588670]

>>17588576
Similarly there’s also multiple schools of Vedanta, some being purely dualistic in nature. And here’s the key.

>realizing you were always a part of Brahman

Yet they still function as individuals and as living persons, while also maintaining this Brahman realization. This by all regards is akin to chim.

[Anonymous No.17588674]

>>17588638
>Making his identity reach the highest possible concentration and force possible.
Wow so henosis is actually a reinforcement of identity? Is it the same thing in neoplatonism? Where can I read more about this
>argument point between Vedanta and Buddhism
Why do Buddhists seek the "melting into static oneness" as you put it? Why don't all traditions seek this CHIM-like state in the first place since it's obviously preferable?

[Anonymous No.17588685]

>>17588670
>some being purely dualistic in nature
Do you think dualism is true? I always thought nondualism or at least some kind of subjective idealism made more sense.
>they still function as individuals and as living persons
So do arahants as far as I know

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17588748]

>>17588674
>Wow so henosis is actually a reinforcement of identity? Is it the same thing in neoplatonism? Where can I read more about this

Iamblichus for one. In Iamblichus’s theurgy/Neoplatonism there is no Goal of ascent, but rather of demiurgy, in which you mirror the act of the demiurge and ensoul the world of ideas into the material world especially through the creation of talismans, idols and so forth as solidified ideas, thus making this world more holy in the adepts perception.

To put it in Hegelian terms, by taking the concept/begriff and ensouling it into a rational particular object, you are creating an absolute embodiment which has maximized the totality and the limitation of this at once. This parallels nicely with the formal and sensual drive and their interplay in the philosophy of Schiller.

There’s also Plotinus himself, who’s view mirrors much the Parmenides dialogue, in which there is a constant eternal world which is contrasted with the appearance world, however because of the fall of the soul from divinity, we can only ever perceive one of these, however by the ascent through reason we grasp the eternal forms hiding through the appearances. This is not an abandoning of the appearance world but rather viewing the absolute truth of both.

> Why do Buddhists seek the "melting into static oneness" as you put it? Why don't all traditions seek this CHIM-like state in the first place since it's obviously preferable?

I mean again, it’s not universal, in a lot of Mahayana they basically opt out of the original fixation on annihilation. But it’s because the early buddhist identified the appearance world with evil, suffering, boundless cycles and the false, so they (like the Gnostics) sought a rejection of these for the abstract universal, this is why the Abhidharma systems demonstrate a relational existence for the dharmas, because none of them have independent existence, none of them have atomic reality, nagarjuna agreeing and elaborating on this concept takes it to the next level where one cannot escape unless the entire illusion world be dissolved into the universal/abstract/the empty relation which contains all parts in unity.

This basically then develops back into a more Nondual approach where they affirm both as part of a singular ultimate sphere and as manifestations of each other. Again people like to claim all religions have the same goals and theories, but such is not the case.

[Anonymous No.17588753]

>>17570988
anything or anyone that uses terms like left hand path or right hand path is automatically cringe, regardless of further context.

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17588762]

>>17588685
>Do you think dualism is true? I always thought nondualism or at least some kind of subjective idealism made more sense.

Eh my own personal model is too complex to get into.

> So do arahants as far as I know

Not quite, all early depictions of the Buddha show an empty seat/throne, depictions where he would be but he isn’t. Similarly much of Theravada is basically about grinding away the aggregates (which by all regards, are in other traditions what constitutes a soul) and losing all aspects until you are a void ready to die, leave this world with no attachments to it and enter into nirvana (annihilation, extinction, literally to blow out a candle in the allegory of the aggregates as if a flame)

[Anonymous No.17588839]

>>17588748
>there is no Goal of ascent, but rather of demiurgy,
I don't understand. If there is no goal of ascent, where does the One fit into all this?
>ensouling it into a rational particular object
Is it as simple as associating a concept or idea to an inner vision or does it have to actually be material?
>the fall of the soul from divinity,
Salvation in neoplatonism is purely based on reason? How is it different from gnosis then
> one cannot escape unless the entire illusion world be dissolved
IIRC Nagarjuna considers the illusory nature of things to be based on interdependence so he posits no absolute reality, but western traditions (and even hinduism) do not deny this illusory nature, but instead make it a mere veil that hides the truth of absolute reality
>>17588762
>my own personal model is too complex to get into.
Did you write about it anywhere at least? I'd be interested in reading about it
>the aggregates (which by all regards, are in other traditions what constitutes a soul)
Is the soul not eternal then? If Buddhists can annihilate it I mean.
>leave this world with no attachments to it
Relinquishing material attachments is a big thing in every tradition though, but it's true that Buddhism takes it a step further

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17588902]

>>17588839
>I don't understand. If there is no goal of ascent, where does the One fit into all this?

Neoplatonism isn’t a monolith, in Iamblichus the one descends/empties itself into creation, filling creation.

>Is it as simple as associating a concept or idea to an inner vision or does it have to actually be material?

Actual material, again idol creation along with talisman and sorcery were common here and it’s assumed Plato and Aristotle also would make talismans and were initiated into mystery cults.
,
>Salvation in neoplatonism is purely based on reason? How is it different from gnosis then

In Plotinus it’s purely based on reason, not in Iamblichus. This is because they differ in how much the soul is fallen. Gnosis isn’t reason, rather Gnostics preach abandonment of reason into apophatic Nonduality because they take a view similar to the one of pseudo Dionysius but intensify it, Arguing the conceptual forms are all evil and need to be destroyed (the god names, archons, planets, are in mystical systems considered types of conceptions and spheres/sets of kinds of phenomena.)

The gnostic and platonist are opposed which is why Plotinus writes against them. Platonism sees the demiurge and demiurgy as a Good.

> IIRC Nagarjuna considers the illusory nature of things to be based on interdependence so he posits no absolute reality, but western traditions (and even hinduism) do not deny this illusory nature, but instead make it a mere veil that hides the truth of absolute reality

Again, Hinduism is a large group it isn’t a monolith, and that veil is retained upon union with Brahman because the goal isn’t the nirguna (quality-less aspect of godhead) but the totality (an infinite series of numbers still contains the numbers 1-2-3 etc, as such the partial and particular remain fully existent within the body of Brahman, simply married to the infinite. Fused not confused.)

The Pratītyasamutpāda doctrine of nagarjuna associated this with emptiness and by emptiness he means abstract universality, non particularity, unity in the relational existence. While to him the goal is realizing that pervading universality, many who come after him take this and then say there is no difference whatsoever between nirvana and samsara and that leads into affirmation of both in various traditions.

[Anonymous No.17588936]

>>17587083
i was actually thinking the coomer meme should be flipped to be left-handed

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17588967]

>>17588839
>Did you write about it anywhere at least? I'd be interested in reading about it

Yes but it’s in a blog written as my personal diary. If you’re interested read all of the soseinology posts here, beginning from the oldest post (Kaaba of 237) and going upwards, it’s not going to be an easy read though.

https://pastebin.com/tiCSYRhh

> Is the soul not eternal then? If Buddhists can annihilate it I mean.

In Buddhism it doesn’t truly exist/isn’t you. You’re either absolutely just the relational existence OR the stream of consciousness (which is universal to all men) or again, they go full force Nonduality with it.

The Buddhist opinion would be that you can annihilate the aggregates, different religions would say you cannot or that the desire aggregates do not constitute what people call the self-in-time.
> Relinquishing material attachments is a big thing in every tradition though, but it's true that Buddhism takes it a step further

Sure that’s fine. Kek, I don’t mean attachments to material though, I mean all desire as a whole has to be annihilated because it’s attachment to samsara, once you hit Mahayana this becomes a much harder task because the relational existence of a person to everything else, meaning you could only really destroy the aggregates of the individual, the desire of one, if you annihilate all desire and things to desire, which is why they focus so much on becoming a bodhisattva who’s bound to reincarnate again and again to make everyone else also become one. This is also why they do rites to beckon back arahants (since they’re not really dissolved) so they can be born as bodhisattvas and assist.

[Anonymous No.17589056]

>>17588902
>in Iamblichus the one descends/empties itself into creation, filling creation.
Neoplatonism is monistic, so isn't the One inherently a part of creation, even if it's fallen?
>abandonment of reason into apophatic Nonduality
I recall neoplatonist conceptions of the One being extremely apophatic as well, so it would necessarily defy reason at some point or another, otherwise there's a contradictory relationship between divine Intellect and the One
>the conceptual forms are all evil and need to be destroyed
I thought only the kenoma was considered evil, and the Book of Jeu makes use of those conceptual forms as a way towards salvation after death
>married to the infinite. Fused not confused.
You mean the point is to establish a true connection with Brahman, not disappear into it.
But for the initiate who establishes that connection, and the layperson who never manages to, what is ultimately the difference?
>If you’re interested read all of the soseinology posts here
Thanks, I'm not knowledgeable about kabbalah so I'm probably gonna get filtered quickly but no matter
>You’re either absolutely just the relational existence OR the stream of consciousness
Pretty sure dzogchen and shingon say there is a true self beyond the aggregates but at this point it's more of a matter of interpretation and it's often dismissed as a method of teaching rather than a truth in itself

[Anonymous No.17589105]

>>17570988
Stop LARPing

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17589118]

>>17589056
>Neoplatonism is monistic, so isn't the One inherently a part of creation, even if it's fallen?

The one itself isn’t fallen, the images of the One which are the soul are fallen but can still rise up. But again, Neoplatonism also isn’t a monolith. In Plotinus it’s a matter of purification of thought.

> I recall neoplatonist conceptions of the One being extremely apophatic as well, so it would necessarily defy reason at some point or another, otherwise there's a contradictory relationship between divine Intellect and the One

Kinda, again depends on the writer, in general in someone like Plotinus reason is being used to lift up the soul and this purifies ones own reason as you do it until it becomes very alien to normative human reason.

> I thought only the kenoma was considered evil, and the Book of Jeu makes use of those conceptual forms as a way towards salvation after death

Gnosticism isn’t a monolith either and has multiple schools thrown into a kind of umbrella, example the borborites were absolute nondualists akin to the Aghori. In general those texts which focus the most on transgression of the God names and spheres are what I am referencing, but this is not all of them.

> You mean the point is to establish a true connection with Brahman, not disappear into it.
But for the initiate who establishes that connection, and the layperson who never manages to, what is ultimately the difference?

Depends on the stance of the system, some parts of Vedanta and Buddhism would say it doesn’t change anything/doesn’t matter except on a relative individual level, some would give a soteriological or a devotion based argument. Largely depends.

> Pretty sure dzogchen and shingon say there is a true self beyond the aggregates but at this point it's more of a matter of interpretation and it's often dismissed as a method of teaching rather than a truth in itself

Ye this is what I’m referring to earlier when I speak of some traditions basically confirming the self, Shingon for example does explicitly call it both Atman and anatta.

[Anonymous No.17589152]

>>17589118
>the images of the One which are the soul are fallen but can still rise up.
>purifies ones own reason as you do it
Speaking practically, which practices are advocated to gain knowledge of the One?
>doesn’t change anything/doesn’t matter except on a relative individual level
Well I mean if the individual subject is part of Brahma no matter what, to gain knowledge of Brahma doesn't do much in absolute terms, there is nothing that is saved and nothing to be saved

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17589179]

>>17589152
>Speaking practically, which practices are advocated to gain knowledge of the One?

Depends on the form of Platonism, in Iamblichus it’s idol creation, worship of spirits, astrological magic, evocation, invocation, that sort of thing. Magical theurgy as a whole.

In Plotinus it’s thinking really hard. I keep bringing these two up because most traditions of Neoplatonism more or less follow either one as a paragon of “thinking really hard to gain realization “ or “doing a lot of magic to gain realization”

> Well I mean if the individual subject is part of Brahma no matter what, to gain knowledge of Brahma doesn't do much in absolute terms, there is nothing that is saved and nothing to be saved

Pretty much which is why there’s arguments and debates within all these schools and why Hinduism is so fixated with Bhakti/devotion as the prime conversion method and the reason most practice.

[Anonymous No.17589223]

>>17589179
Is it fair to say that traditions in general share that distinction (realization through reason vs. through practice), and does it matter?

[Anonymous No.17589272]

>>17574143
>By the way, tantra is all about technical explanations and instructions on practice. You’re not going to get vague allusions here.
why so formulaic though

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17589293]

>>17589223
Not really, there’s multiple questions and divisions, there’s the fiery way of active contemplation vs the wet way of apophatic mysticism (wet and fiery/dry being common alchemical terms for these shared in tantra, Taoism and western alchemy)

Some do advocate ritual, some dont, some say it’s a matter of pure belief, of grace, of salvation, of perception, of material actions and so on and so forth. You can paint generalities but it’s really case dependent. I know this sounds vague but we’re talking about every single religious system on earth. Kek.

>does it matter

Well yeah, to each tradition they believe it matters since they’d usually argue that certain methods work and others don’t in accordance with their metaphysics/ontology.

>>17589272
There’s multiple kinds of formulae but they all follow the same general principles, western magical practice and eastern in their various traditions are much the same. You are free to modify the formulae in accordance with the ideals/metaphysical truths and modify the aesthetics and steps somewhat, but the metaphysics and truths must be reflected. Tantra has multiple schools/traditions which over the years practiced their formulae and have arguments over this though. You don’t need to follow those instructions on kundalini but this is what they find is most logical and works best. They also would argue you could attain realization from any stage I outlined.

But ritual magic and yogic techniques being formulaic is common and the methodologies for various things are very approximate across the board globally. Most notably the methodology employed for the ceremonial evocation of spirits is pretty much the same in every world tradition.

[Anonymous No.17589297]

>>17589293
>There’s multiple kinds of formulae but they all follow the same general principles
where do they explain those

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17589326]

>>17589297
Ritual manuals, grimoires, sacred lit.

The heptameron, liber juratus, Arbatel and so forth for Christianity for example. The taoist master chuang gives a good example for Taoism, the peacock tantras/sutras for Buddhism demonstrate it pretty clearly, the tantraloka and in general literature like the mantrikabheda tantra will show what spirit interaction hand spiritual alchemy is like, but you can find sadhanas very easily in tantra and they’ll have clear parallels.

The abrahamic tradition of ceremonial evocation of spirits can be seen Mirrored in the Greek and Egyptian traditions by stuff like the PGM, the pyramid texts and other fragments, we also know from similar fragments and history that Babylonian/Sumerian magic is fundamentally the same in terms of formulae as western abrahamic magical evocation. And I could go on and on. There’s a lot dude.

[Anonymous No.17589328]

>>17589293
>the wet way of apophatic mysticism
Which traditions are most focused on this?

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17589367]

>>17589328
Philosophical (not religious/alchemical) Taoism, Most of Zen, a good deal of Christian mysticism (cloud of unknowing, mirror of simple souls, molinos spiritual guide, the theology of Dionysius, etc.)
Good chunk of Hinduism/Vedanta due to arguments in the yoga sutras of patanjali about stilling the Vritti(waves, the mental obstructions of the world of appearances within the experience of the consciousness, as they constantly change, being remedied by stilling the mind and looking through the waves as if looking through still water to see God/Brahman behind the veil of the water and the waves.) but many traditions often give you the option between both.

[Anonymous No.17589392]

>>17589367
I thought Christianity was particularly kataphatic, I mean how else are you supposed to interpret the Bible?

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17589416]

>>17589392
Eh depends, Dionysius stuff would argue that even the names and persons of the godhead are more or less appearances of the transcendental Godhead. Just like Kabbalah has a titanic apophatic and a titanic kataphatic tradition, the same is also the case with Christianity. In both cases it’s more often that they are structured systems which gradually fade into unknowing as you climb/ascend the ladder.

[Anonymous No.17589438]

>>17589416
> they are structured systems which gradually fade into unknowing as you climb/ascend the ladder.
Seems to me this happens with pretty much all traditions. You get the training wheels but what happens after that is not documented so you're on your own.

[Anonymous No.17589502]

>>17588601
Not him but then do you knowledge the effectiveness or validity of the other faiths and spiritual methods you talk about? You've definitely seen how different paths 'works' for different people, as in legitimately glimpse the divine or attain a higher spiritual state. It's odd to me that you give absolute truth to a certain path and eternal damnation to those who aren't on it.

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17590347]

>>17589438
>unknowing as you climb/ascend the ladder.
>Seems to me this happens with pretty much all traditions. You get the training wheels but what happens after that is not documented so you're on your own.


Well yeah but that’s not what I mean by unknowing, I’m talking about a mystical state in which you sacrifice particular knowledge and thought for abstract/unspecific/non-grasped knowledge which is more nebulous and is necessarily non-conceptual. Which I know, sounds vague, but that’s how these traditions explain it.

>>17589502
>Not him but then do you knowledge the effectiveness or validity of the other faiths and spiritual methods you talk about?

Do I have knowledge as in, have I practiced and seen mystical experiences and so forth with these? Yes.

Do I acknowledge them as valid, correct and means to salvation? No.

How can I reconcile this? Simple, in the Christian faith we believe all men are made with the image of God within him, and this according to traditional commentaries and according to Judaism is the Reason/intellect, thus we read in the likes of St Justin martyr that these religions by being based in the internal contemplations and reflections of man, they effectively have seeds of the logos, reflections through a mirror of the light of truth blemished still by sin and human imperfection. Just as the early church studied and used the Greek religious philosophy (and wasn’t ignorant of parallels of Christianity in earlier religions ) thus integrate and used them as lens and would in some cases even initiate into Pythagorean and platonic cults, so also have I done the same thing and have taken the Gold into the kingdom of Christ in whom I believe alone gives salvation. It is the Christian faith that is to me, the most knowledgeable, most truthful (without corruption or falsehood of any kind in my eyes.) most living, most absolutely eternal in aspect.

I accept that people experience change though to psychological, neurological (as both of these are demonstrable) and rational/spiritual reasons, but I deny that this grants salvation As knowledge does not grant salvation, only a loving and living relationship with the christ does this.


>You've definitely seen how different paths 'works' for different people, as in legitimately glimpse the divine or attain a higher spiritual state. It's odd to me that you give absolute truth to a certain path and eternal damnation to those who aren't on it.

Eh, I can only go in accordance with what my own mystical and devotion relationship says. My Christ says he is the only way, I love the Christ and believe his word. I believe all knowledge dwells and stems from him, and that he holds all knowledge. So all knowledge belongs to him and I do not see harm in the sharing of any knowledge for this reason. It is the person who corrupts perception, reason and knowledge. These things alone ought to be pure. The sun is not evil if it blinds you, you are at fault for looking.

[Anonymous No.17590511]

>>17590347
I can't help but think it's rather amoral of you not to proselytize then. But thanks for the explanation.

[Anonymous No.17590533]

>>17589502
>It's odd to me that you give absolute truth to a certain path and eternal damnation to those who aren't on it.
That's why you don't listen to tripfags with logomania.

The fact that he washes his hands of any responsibility while potentially sending someone on a tangent already puts his integrity in question, especially when all of us who have a clue know that useful and expedient knowledge is far more important than what is merely novel or interesting.

In any case, let it be a lesson to anyone wanting to jump into this occult game. You have to think for yourself and not get all bedazzled by someone else's words, especially if you can't read the fine print.

And remember, silence is a virtue.

[Frater Asemlen !XS8vrClKs2 No.17590556]

>>17590511
Not a problem, I understand the complaint.

>>17590533
Without a doubt it’s better to study and practice on your own and see what revelations you get, otherwise you risk guru-idolatry.

[Anonymous No.17590558]

>>17570988
Anton Long and David Myatt

[Anonymous No.17591248]

>>17590533
>useful and expedient knowledge
What is it? I mean, how do you find it without a guide?

[Anonymous No.17591451]

>>17571009
Explain the difference for a brainlet

[Anonymous No.17591850]

>>17571376
>The unifying factor of the edgy modern left hand path and the actual left hand path is the usage of illusions/sorcery/artifice as a means of knowing God, this is most paralleled in our western hermericism and especially the occultism of someone like William Blake, the Lars von triar movie “house that jack built” is a beautiful love letter to the actual left hand path.
Based

>>17571384
>chronos, kairos


>>17572422
UBI? testing...

>>17580084
Frens only zone ITT

[Anonymous No.17591991]

>>17590556
Do you have any interest in or experience with shamanic techniques or psychedelics?

[Anonymous No.17592692]

>>17577048
o9a is the most based shit out there. if you are looking for practical left hand path material then I suggest you start there.

[Anonymous No.17593002]

>>17591248
>I mean, how do you find it without a guide?
With difficulty. Typically, it is better to trust your heart in selecting a good teacher and hope for good odds. Otherwise, it's a hard path, but it can be done if you are anything like the Buddha.

[Anonymous No.17593745]

bump