/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.17666820]

>How do I explain Hegelian Dialectics basically enough? It’s a philosophical theory, the kind you might encounter if you took the time to read some books. The fundamental premise is to envision history as a sequence of “dialectical” conflicts. Each dialectic begins with a proposition, a thesis… which inherently contains, or creates, its opposite – an antithesis. Thesis and anthesis. The conflict is inevitable. But the resolution of the conflict yields something new – a synthesis – eliminating the flaws in each, leaving behind common elements and ideas.

[Anonymous No.17666921]

I get so tired of fags saying the legion is based because it's based on a real world philosophy.
Like, nigga pick up a book if you want to be a strong domineering force. Don't play some retarded video game

[Anonymous No.17667002]

>>17666820
Has any good game come out since the release of FNV?

[Anonymous No.17667725]

>>17666820
>Hegelian dialectics
>thesis-antithesis-synthesis
confirmed midwit pseud who doesn't read

[Anonymous No.17667766]

>>17666820
The game writers probably thought themself so clever when writing this character, only to use a braindead and wrong interpretation of Hegel. Peak vidoe game writing pseudism.

[Anonymous No.17667778]

>if you took the time to read some books
What books? There are no books in the wasteland.

[Anonymous No.17667874]

>>17666820

[Anonymous No.17667880]

>>17666820
They asked me if I knew anything about Hegelian Dialectics. I said I had a Hegelian degree in Dialectics. They said welcome aboard.

[Anonymous No.17667898]

>>17667002
Fallout 76 could have been so good if Bethesda weren't such tards. Imagine actual factions forming in a Fallout Multiplayer Free-For-All, where you can truly be whatever you want in the post apocalypse.

[Anonymous No.17667925]

I just think its cool enough that it gets mentioned. Who cares if its a pop philosophy explanation. You literally can't explain Hegels system in just paragraph. Hegel literally explains it in the preface

[Anonymous No.17667960]

>>17667725
>>17667766

The whole point is that he's basically bastardizing Fichte and Hegel. As a character, Caesar is a massive pseud who misinterprets what he's reading — understandably so, since he's an autodidact and several hundred years removed from the writing of the few fragments of philosophy he had access to — and generally only cares to use it as a justification.

[Anonymous No.17668577]

Prove to me that he isn't the best choice for the Mojave

[Anonymous No.17668645]

>>17667960
nah that's too subtle for bethesda man, you think some goober had to limit his power level or something? hold himself back from writing "dialectical negativity" and "spirit is a bone"?

[Anonymous No.17668697]

>>17668645
Bethesda didn't create Fallout New Vegas, Obsidian did.

[Anonymous No.17668733]

>>17668697
NO! black isle did. my reason? lot of ex employess are from that company worked in for the game developed thingy

[Anonymous No.17669344]

>>17667898
companies never let stuff like this happen and it sucks because it's always been the most interesting part of games for me. I want a sandbox MMO or w/e where people can freely join factions based off various ideals etc. Shame, seems like an interactive media is the perfect form to experiment with but it's just never attempted

[Anonymous No.17669352]

>zomg le thesis antithesis synthesis is NOT part of le hegel's philosophy!!!!

[Anonymous No.17669392]

>>17669352
Based

[Anonymous No.17669403]

>>17669352
>abstract, negative, concrete

[Anonymous No.17669406]

>>17669352
Pretty much this. Pointing out that what Caesar talks about "isn't real Hegelianism" is far more pseudo-intellectual than the game itself. I was literally taught that thesis-antithesis-synthesis was Hegel at my fucking university, which is allegedly like 30th in the world or some bullshit. The fact that Caesar, a man living hundreds of years after Hegel and Fichte, after a nuclear apocalypse, with access to only a woefully incomplete library in the Boneyard as a youth (decades ago by the time of FNV) would call the TAS dialectic Hegelian is pretty god dammed understandable. And like another anon pointed out- it's clear he's a megalomaniac and just using the philosophy as a strange justification for war (much weaker than he main argument of creating an anti-fragile civilization)

[Anonymous No.17669433]

>>17667766
What's the correct understanding?

[Anonymous No.17669438]

>>17669433
That Hegel never explicitly used the terms "thesis-antithesis-synthesis", but he did use >>17669403

It's peak midwittery to get mad at this kind of thing.

[Anonymous No.17669447]

>>17667898
>where you can truly be whatever you want in the post apocalypse.
Everything except racist, transphobic, queerphobic, anti-semetic, xenophobic, homophobic, ableist, or etcist.

[Anonymous No.17669456]

>>17669406
LOL imagine if ceaser started talking about immanent critique. it'd be honestly far more jarring

[Anonymous No.17669475]

>>17667002
Disco elysium
Outer wilds
Hollow knight

Thank me later

[Anonymous No.17669491]

>>17666820
haha wow that's so interesting anyway I want your gear time to die

[Anonymous No.17669508]

>>17667960
He was also only 20 by his own account when he began his life as Caesar. So his understanding of philosophy is effectively still that of a pretentious undergrad student.

[Anonymous No.17669514]

>>17669447
Sounds based

[Anonymous No.17669539]

>>17669433
They do t know because they haven’t actually read anything.

They probably fail to see that thesis,antithesis,synthesis are a better way of explaining than the terms he did use.

[Anonymous No.17669544]

Who is the Schopenhauerian of Fallout New Vegas?

[Anonymous No.17669556]

>>17669352
Yeah. I guess the thing I'm more confused about is why he thinks he will last? By all means he's just representing the antithesis while the NCR which is trying to more or less bring back the old world is the thesis, no?

[Anonymous No.17669662]

>>17669544
Burned Man - Kierkegaard
Caesar - Nietzsche
Yes Man - Descartes
Benny - Max Stirner
Ulysses - Schopenhauer

[Anonymous No.17669678]

>>17669475
Nope
Nope
Yes.

[Anonymous No.17669684]

>>17668577
Why would I try to disprove the truth?

[Anonymous No.17669827]

>>17669475
The only good video game is Pharaoh(1999).

[Anonymous No.17669843]

>>17669827
>Pharaoh(1999).
Based reference

[Anonymous No.17669865]

I don't care about anything Hegel wrote because I know a priori that Fichte and Schelling are better

[Anonymous No.17669874]

>>17669438
My post was about video game writing. However if Caesar is meant to be a pseud, then good job, it's very clever honestly.
The ironic thing is most people don't know this however and keep perpetuating the Kantian "thesis, antithesis, synthesis" to Hegel, even though it was part of Hegel's critique of Kant.

[Anonymous No.17669902]

>>17669406
The problem is that he is supposed to be satire, but he doesn't come off that way. Most people walk away from the game thinking that is Hegelian dialectics. It's shit writing. Imagine writing a novel about how incest is bad, but instead it becomes the #1 bestseller in taboo eroticism and everyone knows your book as the sexiest taboo incest novel. Your critique / irony / satire failed, you ended up promoting the thing you wanted to critique. The goal of your writing wasn't clear enough.

[Anonymous No.17669917]

>>17669475
>outer wilds and hollow knight
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
DE is the only good one

[Anonymous No.17669925]

>>17669902
what are you talking about? satire? This isn't satire at all. its just a man with a limited understanding of philosophy that he only really cares about as long as it justifies war. There is no failure here. most people walk away from this game having never even talked to this character about these things.
You seem like a crab from /wg/. post your work.

[Anonymous No.17669949]

>>17669902
>he thinks writing and art has to have a goal or political motive

[Anonymous No.17669952]

>>17669925
>crab from /wg/
Nope

Ironically that limited understanding of philosophy doesnt come across, in fact he comes across as one of the most intellectual characters in the game. Most people after playing the game, sincerely think that Hegelian dialectics is whatever this pseud is spewing. If they go to youtube and search for Hegelian dialectics one of the first videos will probably be school of life or some other pop pseud philosophy channel that will perpetuate this myth.
Again, it would be like someone writing an anti racist narrative, but have all the black people be lazy, weed smoking and raping white women. "Haha, stereotypes bad am I right? Guys?" and most people will leave saying "Oh wow, they really showed me how evil black people are!!"

[Anonymous No.17669959]

>>17669949
>write character supposed to be wrong and a pseud
>all players of your game leave thinking this is actually Hegelian dialectics, and he is a deep character
>video game writing

[Anonymous No.17669961]

>>17669952
thats a long post to say
>caesar's legion completely flew over my head
then again you are also a pseud getting uppity over thesis antithesis and synthesis with hegel so i guess i shouldnt be surprised
good luck im done here

[Anonymous No.17669970]

>>17667880
kek
why is he in legion armor?

[Anonymous No.17669975]

>>17669959
I love how you keep using all. nah man

[Anonymous No.17669987]

>>17669961
Okay, do you sincerely think all the players of F:NV leave with the take "wow Caesars legion is pseudo warmongers!" or "Wow, Caesar is violent, but he used Hegelian dialectics and has a point!".
Again, it would be like if DFW wrote Infinite Jest and everyone thinks "haha irony is good and funny".
It just means you had a lot of ideas, that ultimately failed when it materialised. All they did was further perpetuate the myth of Hegelian dialectics being thesis, antithesis and synthesis, thus only promoting the myth themself, despite them wanting the opposite. They literally only helped what they tried to critique.

[Anonymous No.17670003]

>>17669987
>Okay, do you sincerely think all the players of F:NV leave with the take "wow Caesars legion is pseudo warmongers!" or "Wow, Caesar is violent, but he used Hegelian dialectics and has a point!".
I don't know, and to be honest I don't really care.
All I know is that Caesar is more interesting than characters in the vast majority of video games.

[Anonymous No.17670006]

Whether or not Caesar rightly interpreted Hegel is one thing but he is right that the taking of the dam radically changes both the NCR and the legion. The taking of the dam signifies the end of the nomadic war tribe days and begins the spark of a new "Rome" which was what Caesar intended. The Mojave is ripe with chems, thievery, tribal conflict. NPCs often remark how caravans are barred from selling chems and weapons in legion territory yet the territory is much safer to travel. Caesar envisions a transformation of the legion post-Hoover Dam into stable society.

Overall a good karma legion ending is probably the best result for the Mojave

[Anonymous No.17670012]

>>17669975
You guys are retarded, no wonder any on you can't write for shit.
If you want people to think of your character as a pseud, do you think you should reference some obscure fucking philosopher that is already misunderstood by professors in fucking universities? How would your average fucking retard get away with this, and not just further believe that Hegelian dialectics is about war or whatever Caesar says.
Ask what is a sign of pseudery to normal people, and not what is a sign of pseudery to elite snobs in an obscure hobby like Hegelian philosophy. If you had some other character outwit Caesar in some minor way, only for Caesar to immediately beat him would show that he is not an honest intellectual, but only there to show dominance by his own pseudery. Have him say some thing that everyone know is obviously false, like use Darwin's theory of evolution to argue that humans evolve to their surroundings, so therefore constant war would create hard and good men. Something asinine that people can get and say "oh, this guy is not genuinely intellectual!".
Instead they just helped perpetuate wrong takes on Hegel, which is in itself peak pseudery, considering they wanted the opposite. Good job. Next you're going to write a novel about the dangers of identity politics, but everyone reads it and goes "Oh wow, we really gotta focus on minorities!!!! This author explains why identity politics is good". Your critique failed. Point didn't come across. Its bad writing.

[Anonymous No.17670023]

let's end the debate: it's Caesar understanding of hegel intentionally wrong or did the writers thought that was a quick summary of hegel's dialectic?

[Anonymous No.17670025]

>>17670003
Yes he might be.
But this is like Sia trying to spread awareness about autism, by making the most offensive and stereotypical movie with a non autistic actor doing retarded dance moves.
Its a failure of writing / manifesting your intent, and in fact will be seen as the opposite by people. People think that Hegel's dialectics means "oh wow, there must be war so that it can make synthesis that is good and better society" which is not at all what Hegel is about. It's not what Caesar is about either, but your average video game player won't fucking know who the fuck Hegel or anyone else is.

[Anonymous No.17670031]

>>17670023
Everyone in these threads always forgets that there is actually a historical precedent for the misuse of Hegelian dialectic: Marxism. Marxism led to regimes which butchered and enslaved millions of people because they chose to interpret Hegel in their own way (dialectical materialism). Caesar may as well be the equivalent of Lenin, Stalin or Mao.

[Anonymous No.17670035]

>>17670012
>NOOOO WHY ISNT HE OBVIOUSLY A PSEUD I DONT WANT TO THINK WAHHH WAHHH ITS BAD WRITING WAHHHH I HATE DEPTH ITS NOT LIKE AVENGERS ENDGAME WHERE EVERYRHING IS EASY TO UNDERSTAND WAHHH NOT MUH HEGELERINO WAHHHH STOP MISREADING HEGEL YOU RACIST CHUDS WAHHHH FUCK THIS IM GONNA GO WATCH MORE BBC PORN AND MARVEL MOVIES NINTENDO GAMES ARE BETTER ANYWAY BETHESDA IS RACIST AND PROBLEMATIC

[Anonymous No.17670042]

>>17670023
I would really like to think that the writers tried to make a 200 IQ writing move, and purposefully interpreted Hegel wrong to show Caesar as a pseud, but honestly I dont think video game writers are generally capable of that. The pop philosophy channel "school of life" has a 5 minute video where they use thesis, antithesis etc, and it has 700,000 views. The misunderstanding runs so deep I think most people have the wrong take on Hegel, to the point that I would be more surprised if some pop culture reference to Hegel got him right.

[Anonymous No.17670047]

>>17670035
Wow what a fucking retard, you unironically like Marvel and watch nigger porn? Kys faggot.

[Anonymous No.17670054]

OK big brains, how would you sum up hegel in a paragraph?

[Anonymous No.17670055]

Oh wow guys look! They're playing 4d chess and purposefully misinterpreting Hegel! This is really brilliant writing!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q54VyCpXDH8&t=1s&ab_channel=TheSchoolofLife

[Anonymous No.17670061]

>>17670054
Substance is subject.

[Anonymous No.17670131]

>>17670055
God I hate Anglo Saxons, just listen to the first minute of this fucking drivel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5JGE3lhuNo&ab_channel=TheSchoolofLife

[Anonymous No.17670144]

Remember that your enemies may not want to synthesize anything but a world where you and every trace of you has ceased to exist, and trying to have dialectics instead of fighting is just suicide

[Anonymous No.17670272]

/v/edditors have a very dull and evil manner of writing, like they have an overpowering need to INFORM and POLICE people's conversations. very suburban. very teenage. a little genderless.. not trans, but desexed.. a void.. flavourless like gum sucked on for too long. this kind of disgusting specimen exists in all the juvenile hobbies. they don't read (not really) but still consider themselves intellectual.

[Anonymous No.17670299]

rolling
if 0-4 I'll replay
if 5-9 I will not

[Anonymous No.17670353]

>>17670299
Ouch. I've played it that much I can't get into a new playthrough anymore, sad really.

[Anonymous No.17670357]

>>17668577
Ah a philosopher king. I usually kill him and elect myself but what annoys the fuck out of me is I can't fight both the legion and the ncr.

[Anonymous No.17670376]

>>17669406
you could have gone to Cambridge or Stanford, anglos cant into Hegel.
Your uni taught you that meme because its own professors struggle to get a grasp on Hegel. Just stick to your Kripke and Quine shit and stop pretending you can understand the philosophy of a guy who said it can only be done in german.

[Anonymous No.17670382]

>>17670376
seethe.

[Anonymous No.17670407]

>>17670382
Mad anglo

>>17670376
This man is right. Anglos cannot and refuse to comprehend anything outside their own mental sphere. Anything not immediately comprehended by the anglo mind is deemed below it, as their feeble and reductionistic methods cannot reduce the contents to a hollow enough state so the anglo can deem it "true" or "false". Such is the case with Hegel, anglos would rather purposefully misinterpret and dismiss him, than admit that anything of value exists outside their own methods.

[Anonymous No.17670414]

>>17666820
Just say "It's like talking to a Jew bro"

[Anonymous No.17671199]

Caesar could not complete the system of German idealism.

[Anonymous No.17671274]

>>17670407
>>17670376

>my professors at elite universities didn't understand hegel, only i did!

fucking egos on this board

[Anonymous No.17671295]

>>17667960
>spent 7 years reading continental philosophy
Jesus christ what a wasted life

[Anonymous No.17671362]

House>Legion>Anarchy>BasedCR

[Anonymous No.17671390]

>>17669970
>He diden't arm archimedes 2
Degenerates like you belong on a cross

[Anonymous No.17671461]

>>17669406
>I was literally taught that thesis-antithesis-synthesis was Hegel at my fucking university, which is allegedly like 30th in the world or some bullshit.
A*glos really should be forbidden from posting on here for being the least literary and least cultured race

[Anonymous No.17671495]

>>17671362
Yeah I basically agree with this.
I’ll never work with the NCR because Moore is such a cunt. At least House and Caesar give you some respect.

[Anonymous No.17671659]

>>17669865
>I know a priori
Obviously you're missing a lot.

[Anonymous No.17671780]

>>17671274
I don't care if your dead grandfather explained you Hegel's philosophy as thesis, antithesis, synthesis, I will dig him up and put my fat cock in his rotten anus right in front of your entire family. It is wrong, a common misunderstanding and a myth that brainlets keep perpetuating because they do not wish to learn how wrong they are. Even professors can be wrong, you authority loving dog.

[Anonymous No.17671847]

Ok I'm genuinely interested, if Caesar's explenation is flawed then what's the proper one?
Pls help

[Anonymous No.17671911]

>>17670023
JE Sawyer has a Master's Degree in Hagiography and I unironically believe he threw in the Hegelian Dialectics lines because people with a small amount of "philosophy" would recognize what Caesar is saying but more educated people would recognize it's just sophistry.
There is already a character in New Vegas that is demonstrably more intelligent (but also more histrionic) than Caesar- Arcade. He points out flaws in Caesar's latin and various other things he says. Caesar is NOT meant to come across as the most intelligent character in the game.

[Anonymous No.17671944]

>>17670025
The fact you're struggling to understand the purpose of Caesar's dialogue is not to correctly teach Hegelian philosophy but to reference him as a literary technique tells me you're too fucking stupid to understand Hegel anyways. A throw away line from a character claiming Kierkegaard wrote about Slave Morality would be an obvious demonstration the character is a pseud, and it's not the game's fucking responsibility to ensure the player is switched-on enough to catch the mistake.

[Anonymous No.17672598]

>>17669475
hollow knight is probably all time top 10 material
Disco Elysium insists on itself and that's a good thing

[Anonymous No.17672654]

>>17670061
sounds like buddhism desu

[Anonymous No.17672661]

>>17670299
this means you have to play at least 10 hours of caravan

[Anonymous No.17672674]

>>17671390
lmao I did not expect that from gannon

[Anonymous No.17672755]

Why does every midwit here dick suck Fallout New Vegas so hard? I don't even care about the Hegel shit, the writing and dialogue is just awful.

[ΔΛΔ No.17672765]

>>17666820
THESIS ANTITHESIS SYNTHESIS

That is not hegelian lmao. Maybe, um, maybe read Hegel before attempting to write a paragraph blurb about dialectics? χ

[Anonymous No.17672795]

>>17667880
Most based and honest man in the game, all other philosopher pseuds can fuck off.

[Anonymous No.17672802]

>>17668577
Don't know about Mojave, but if he shared his live extension tech then he's the best choice for me.

[Anonymous No.17672813]

>>17666820

[Anonymous No.17672850]

>>17670357
>Ah a philosopher king.
No, he's just a smarmy STEMbug with useless fantasies and goals such as "colonizing the stars". Imagine finding yourself sympathizing with the in-universe equivalent of Elon Musk.

[Anonymous No.17672883]

>>17672850
Earth is fucked up permanently in Fallout. Leaving it for other planets is a reasonable idea.
Also, if House was just a stemtard, he wouldn't have preserved Vegas' culture.

[Anonymous No.17672921]

>>17672883
He literally explains it's because if he gives people what they want, they are not likely to challenge him. Vegas' culture is just hedonism and bright lights. The reason Vegas' culture is intact is because humans are natural hedonists and Vegas has electricity. He even says he has no concern with what people do in their spare time.

[Anonymous No.17672978]

>>17672883
>Earth is fucked up permanently in Fallout. Leaving it for other planets is a reasonable idea.
Not only is his plan retarded and unrealistic, but all it would do is compound the suffering of the weak and poor as the gap widens.
>Also, if House was just a stemtard, he wouldn't have preserved Vegas' culture.
What "culture"?

[Anonymous No.17672997]

>>17671274
>>my professors at elite universities didn't understand hegel, only i did!
I don't trust those oversocialized twats to wipe their own asses lol.

[Anonymous No.17673009]

>>17669475
all of those are shit, fallout: new vegas is shit too. play pathologic 1 and 2 and you'll see intellectualism is not a substitute for artistry.

[Anonymous No.17673354]

>>17667002
None.

[Anonymous No.17673950]

>>17671944
>simping for video game writing

[Anonymous No.17674481]

>>17669491
based

[Anonymous No.17674483]

>>17671274
it's not hard to outdo "professors", you probably do it by accident and i can tell you're a drooling retard

[Anonymous No.17675341]

>>17672755
Don't say that anon! we had a new vegas writer posting here a few months ago.
>>/lit/thread/S15635864

[Anonymous No.17675358]

>>17667002
Classic WoW

[Anonymous No.17675369]

>>17667002
DS1

[Anonymous No.17675385]

>>17667002
was mount and blade before or after fallout nv?

[Anonymous No.17675410]

>>17667002
Skyrim
Bloodborne
MGSV
W3
Sekiro.

[Anonymous No.17675668]

>>17675341
Interesting thread. Thanks for sharing anon

[Anonymous No.17676075]

>>17669952
>Ironically that limited understanding of philosophy doesnt come across, in fact he comes across as one of the most intellectual characters in the game.
To be fair, reading books of any kind in the Mojave wasteland probably puts you in the 1% of the intellectual class there. To even attempt to auto-didactically understand Hegel legitimately makes him an intellectual kingpin by the standards of his time.

[Anonymous No.17676408]

>>17670272
I wish I could write like you

[Anonymous No.17676465]

>>17672598
IT INSISTS ON ITSELF BECAUSE IT HAS SOMETHING TO SAY!

[Anonymous No.17676501]

>>17670272
what the fuck are you talking about you fucking spastic

[Anonymous No.17676507]

>>17672978
>suffering of the weak and poor as the gap widens.
Your kind isn't welcome here, commie

[Anonymous No.17676966]

The post-post-apocalyptic Schopenhauer

[Anonymous No.17677271]

>>17670023
Intentional. Sawyer has a masters in history and is well read in German literature, can also speak German too.

[Anonymous No.17677279]

>>17675410
The midwit perfecta *kisses all five fingertips*

[Anonymous No.17677293]

>>17668577
>the autistic ancap LARPing as not a corpse
Say hello to my nine-iron

[Anonymous No.17677296]

>>17666820
This doesn't explain what 'thesis', 'antithesis', and 'synthesis' are whatsoever.
Please give an example

[Anonymous No.17677303]

>>17670376
Ahhh*, spoken like a true undergrad
*pepsi sound

[Anonymous No.17677325]

>>17677296
Thesis: trannies are deranged and/or mentally ill
Antithesis: trannies are simply dissatisfied with their bodies within their gender
Synthesis: gender dysphoria is a certifiable psychological disorder with both social and hormonal causes

[Anonymous No.17677346]

>>17677325
The thesis and the synthesis are the same thing you just worded it differently you retard.

[Anonymous No.17677363]

>>17677325
That makes no fucking sense and is incredibly wrong in every way.

[Anonymous No.17677403]

>>17677346
>>17677363
Thanks for the positive feedback, fellas! Takin it to the bank as we speak

[Anonymous No.17677477]

>>17672850
I like Elon Musk. I thought of the government and especially communism and fascism as simply a corporate monopoly vial legislation and violence only to have him say the same thing on Rogan. The rich oligarchy always wins because they always control the government.

[Anonymous No.17677481]

>>17677325
You will never have an ethnostate.

[Anonymous No.17677484]

>>17669662
Oh yeah, adding to this: Mr House - Ayn Rand

[Anonymous No.17677530]

>>17667002
Yes,several.

[Anonymous No.17678711]

>>17667960
I've always just shot him in the face for talking down to me then killed everyone at his fort.

[Anonymous No.17678754]

>>17677325
Obsessed.