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/lit/ - Literature

File: 145 KB, 1200x900, death-of-socrates.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Wed Mar 17 18:04:39 2021 No.17807204 [Reply] [Original]

So let me get this straight, he was so annoying that everyone voted to kill him?

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 17 18:05:52 2021 No.17807212 ”straight”

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 17 18:10:21 2021 No.17807247 File: 581 KB, 1110x1600, Christ_Pantocrator.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] So let me get this straight, he was so annoying that everyone voted to kill him?

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 17 18:14:34 2021 No.17807279 >>17807204 he thought he was being a genius by refusing to accept their generous offer so they had no choice but to kil him, he basically commited suicide.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 17 18:15:27 2021 No.17807286 File: 286 KB, 1113x888, David_Foster_Wallace.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] So let me get this straight, everyone was so annoying that he voted to kill himself?

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 17 18:15:37 2021 No.17807288 >>17807247 his knowledge of the scriptures and pil pul ability was too powerful, even the most powerful jews couldn't out debate him

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 17 18:17:29 2021 No.17807302 >>17807286 >everyone you mean "he" living away from others is easy, he was effectively already doing so. living away from oneself, not so easy. you remember his attempts at meditation.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 17 18:17:31 2021 No.17807303 >>17807279 >renounce your principles and you'll live What will you have left to live for after accepting their offer? War needs to start soon so spineless NPC's like you can die off already.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 17 18:18:53 2021 No.17807316 >>17807204 yes

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 17 18:19:26 2021 No.17807321 >>17807303 >I DEMAND YOU KILL ME "hehe you fools, this truly shows the injustice of the system, killing an innocent man like me!"

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 17 18:19:36 2021 No.17807324 File: 672 KB, 784x1100, file.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>17807204 >YOUR SUPERIOR DEBATE SKILLS ARE UNDERMINING OUR TRADITIONAL VALUES AND HUMILIATING THEIR DEFENDERS SO YOU MUST DIE!

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 17 18:19:55 2021 No.17807327 >>17807302 Yet his whole writing career focused on undoing the mind-numbing pattern we are stuck in. He couldn't get people out of his mind to the point his rejection of it all defined him, anon.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 17 18:20:42 2021 No.17807334 >>17807324 >but why? truly a genus

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 17 18:20:56 2021 No.17807335 >>17807321 Was he wrong? No need to seethe because you cannot understand the idea of living with a purpose.

Anonymous Wed Mar 17 18:22:13 2021 No.17807352

>>17807204
>>17807247
It wasn't annoyance. Both of them made enemies out of very powerful people, Socrates by making them look foolish and exposing them as ignorant and Christ by challenging the power of the corrupt religious chiefs as well as the king from Israel and Judea.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 17 18:22:34 2021 No.17807356 Based annoyer causing the hylics to seethe in such rage they bust a total nut.

Anonymous Wed Mar 17 18:24:21 2021 No.17807372

>>17807334
Socrates doesn't ask "why", he asks you a couple of basic questions you're likely to agree with, then asks you a question that leads to an absurd conclusion, but which you cannot dismiss without also dismissing your previous beliefs. Then he helps you get closer to the truth.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 17 18:26:22 2021 No.17807385 >>17807204 he was a fly, he got swatted, simple as.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 17 18:28:07 2021 No.17807399 >>17807356 The Ancient Greeks weren't Hylics

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 17 18:29:20 2021 No.17807411 >>17807399 They are now

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 17 18:29:49 2021 No.17807416 He was friends with some of the 30 tyrants

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 17 18:31:21 2021 No.17807428 Can he deny the charge if corrupting the youth when two members of his think harem grew up to be Alcibiades and Critias? You couldn't name more infamous as these in Athens at the time.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 17 18:32:23 2021 No.17807437 >>17807416 he was a protofascist, basically a nazi.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 17 18:33:49 2021 No.17807445 >>17807416 Socrates hated the tyranny and in Athens you literally could not be charged for anything to with the tyranny because of an amnesty, prohibiting anyone from being charged with crimes relating to it, implemented after revolution.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 17 18:38:19 2021 No.17807474 >>17807212 sodomy pilled

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 17 18:49:00 2021 No.17807575 >>17807445 He refused to arrest someone for them. I doubt he hated Plato's uncle Critias or Alcibiades, who Xenophon wrote of favorably. He also was charged with corrupting the youth and inventing novel gods, not anything related to the 30 tyrants.

Anonymous Wed Mar 17 18:56:09 2021 No.17807627

>>17807204
You want to really know why he was killed? It's blatantly in front of everyone and few people ever talk about it because it's not as romantic: he pissed off the business interests of the sophists. You have the sophists making a business out of knowledge, big business, and you have people paying money, big money, to learn it. Over time this is building a little elite club. You then have Socrates advocating giving the product away for free.

People are the same as they've always been and when you don't go along with the new order, your ass is history. You can say and advocate for almost anything, but the moment you start threatening the economic machine it becomes an incredibly lucrative prospect to take you out. Socrates made it good business to kill him as did a lot of other people throughout history. No one pulls the trigger until you start costing them money.

Anonymous Wed Mar 17 20:39:18 2021 No.17808511

>>17807204
the way it worked was that first they voted on finding him being guilty/innocent and then on what was the most appropriate punishment. From the ancient sources we know that more people decided to punish him with death that previously found him guilty. That means that between those two votings he must have said something that made them change their minds so radically as to want him dead. He probably mocked the whole affair and laughed and the ones who accused him. Read Plato and Diogenes Laertios for that, also The Trial of Socrates by I. F. Stone.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 17 21:46:48 2021 No.17808880 >>17807279 He was old as fuck and probably soon to die anyway. Living in exile sounds cringe; I'd drink the hemlock in that situation too.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 17 21:49:55 2021 No.17808897 >>17808880 Dude, its a fucken rage quit, admit it. Socrates was a shitcunt troll. When reported he ban evaded. So they rangebanned him but before it came into effect he rage quit.

>>	࿇ C Œ M G E N V S ࿇ !KNDYqWRDiE Wed Mar 17 23:08:09 2021 No.17809384 >>17807204 NO BETTER EXAMPLE OF DEMOCRACY IN ACTION: DEMOCRACY KILLS THE BEST, AND PERPETUATES THE WORST, WHILST THE MEDIOCRE RULE.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 17 23:08:38 2021 No.17809390 >>17807204 Yes

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 18 02:38:16 2021 No.17810251 >>17809384 Based.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 18 02:49:52 2021 No.17810288 >>17808897 socrates: the original rage quitter.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 18 03:11:02 2021 No.17810353 >>17809384 You need to replace the "U"s with "V"s to improve the larp. Otherwise based

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 18 09:11:44 2021 No.17811428 >>17808897 And that's what made him based.

Anonymous Thu Mar 18 09:58:38 2021 No.17811692
File: 81 KB, 564x721, E2D521CC-A445-47FA-9557-40A610E6E3B4.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>17807204
yes
>>17807324
he was still kind of a tool and smartass. Dont get me wrong, i respect him, but the consequences for his actions were equally as reasonable.

Is there a term for both understanding a position and understanding the consequences of that position? Like from the jury’s position they gave him a number of outs and benifits of the doubt, but he refused to question his own questioning which should be the ultimate conclusion to the line of socratic thought.

Its like standing up in the middle of a lecture hall and proclaiming the institution forfit, or proclaiming you dont have to go the the lecture hall. Yah, you might be conceptually correct if you follow from a purely logic pov, but that way you can deconstruct everything, and what do you expect the institution to do “yah you are right, lets pack up our bags and create a semi autonomous commune teaching organization rather than a traditional learning structure because anonrightly said it does not strictly logically follow with how we are doing this things”

No, people dont just ficking flip their structure overnight. Its one thing to move towards a goal in a practical sense, and its another thing to argue theory and admonishing that practice is not exactly 1 to 1 with your conception ASAP.

“Ow, I guess you are right socratese, I guess this council will just create YOUR perfect conceptualization of things this very instant.”

I understand sticking to a theory for theories sake and facing the practical consequences of it. But getting upity that theory does not reflect current practice immediately is just fart sniffing.I respect the socratic stance, but I also understand the consequences of it when being so myopic about it.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 18 10:02:28 2021 No.17811708 >>17811428 It took this long for a poster to recognise that.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 18 12:13:43 2021 No.17812651 I have read only parts but I feel the dialogues are filled with very lax use of extremely wide and vague terms that Socrates uses to jump to his predetermined conclusion and epicpawn everybody.

Anonymous Thu Mar 18 12:20:39 2021 No.17812711

>>17812651 >>17807279
>>17807335
>>17807356
>>17807372
>>17807445

>>17807204
Yeah Socrates is peak rationalist midwitism. The guy just roams the city, going to artisans like a shoemaker and saying >HEY BRO WHAT"S THE DEFINITION OF A SHOE? HUH What's that? UH? HU ? WHAT that's? YOU DON"T KNOW?! YOU DONT"EVEN KNOW THE DEFINITION OF A SHOE. LMAO AT YOU FUCKING CAVE PLEB.

Socrates was r8ddit all along. No wonder all the atheists in academia praise him today.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 18 12:23:24 2021 No.17812734 File: 79 KB, 1125x624, DE794969-CB56-4459-85AF-8A423B2B1AE1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Where to start with Socrates?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 18 12:24:04 2021 No.17812739 >>17812711 haha

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