gaymer literature

[Anonymous No.17930773]

Any books that touch upon the damage that gaming has brought upon to society?

There's a whole generation being raise by videogames, youtube and anime and no one is talking about it.

[Anonymous No.17930795]

>>17930773
Those people never would have amounted to anything anyways. In previous generations the adults playing video games would have resorted to watching television and sniffing glue/paint. Video games are only slightly worse than television.

[Anonymous No.17930816]

>>17930773
People in my circles won't shut the fuck up about it :/

[Anonymous No.17930850]

>>17930773
Im thinking about making a mid level pc based on the NZXT H1 Mini ITX Case, thoughts? I like the formfactor and minimalist design.

[Anonymous No.17930854]

>>17930773
I think DeLillo’s White Noise is tangentially about this but I haven’t read that book.

[Anonymous No.17930866]

>>17930773
What the Internet is Doing to Our Brains is tangentially related and a very good read.

[Anonymous No.17930878]

>>17930773
What damage?

[Anonymous No.17930889]

>>17930878
>escapism bad
Probably something in between kids should be outside playing baseball instead or actually doing something useful like writing deontological maxims or studying accounting

[Anonymous No.17930956]

>>17930773
its literally don quixote. nothing is new

[Anonymous No.17931009]

>>17930878
There are tiers of hobbies and gaming is objectively the lowest tier. It's directly harmful to physical, intellectual and social development, and it's more comparable to meth addiction than it is to more respectable hobbies.

[Anonymous No.17931043]

>>17930773
>>17930795
>>17930816
>>17931009
There's nothing wrong with playing games occasionally. Better than reading the Greeks.

[Anonymous No.17931057]

Same thread, different name.
Simulacra and simulation
Society of the spectacle
Manufacturing consent
Plato’s republic
Infinite jest
Amusing ourselves to death

[Anonymous No.17931062]

>>17931043
I agree with you. Doesn't change the fast that people who disagree are very vocal about it

[Anonymous No.17931065]

>>17930850
looks pretty slick

[Anonymous No.17931072]

>>17931009
I dont see how its worse than other hobbies, such as watching television or browsing social media both of which the vast majority of the population engages in.
You should be more specific also, are you talking about single player story games, or endless multiplayer gambling grinds

[Anonymous No.17931073]

>>17931043
Similarly there's nothing wrong with doing meth occasionally. Our definitions of occasionally are probably very different though.

[Anonymous No.17931082]

>>17931073
You should probably smoke meth less than you play video games, yes.

[Anonymous No.17931152]

>>17931072
Television and social media at least have the potential to introduce you to interesting schools of thought. So far, gaming does not. In general, the stories in games are significantly worse than the shitty romance genre fiction that single, elderly, cat ladies buy at grocery stores. Even the so called greats like Planescape, Deus Ex and Vampire The Masquerade are horrendously written. In terms of gameplay, single player video games are uninteresting and terribly easy. They only offer a modest challenge to complete retards.

There are also social problems with gaming. In multiplayer, you're voluntarily associating with the most intellectually stunted people on the planet. If respectable people even find out that you're participating in such vile stupidity they will immediately, and justifiably, disassociate themselves from you. No respectable adult regularly plays video games.

[Anonymous No.17931191]

>>17930773
Ender's Game

[Anonymous No.17931204]

>>17931152
Games can invoke certain feelings well. For example, my literary focuses are solely on children's lit and horror. I think only literature of the extremes can touch the true nature of reality, so I seek out games such as Hamtaro: Ham-Ham Heartbreak and Darkwood. They are both good games and one is concentrated with light and the other of darkness. There is no such thing as ambiguity between the light and darkness, and our world is a manifestation of their conflict.
I have lists of my favorite dualistic artwork of all mediums (i.e., literature, painters, film, anime, etc). Pic related. The bottom row needs improvement. I can also share my favorite book lists.
You can also understand the nature of reality through anime too. All you need to do is switch back and forth between extremely macabre stuff like Shōjo Tsubaki and bright, cherry works like Yuru Camp. Cosmic dualism is the nature of this world.

[Anonymous No.17931425]

I know so many people who have went to school for actually useful and somewhat difficult degrees(STEM) that are gamers.

Maybe the fact that people don't listen or care about blue haired transexual people shrieking on twatter or in some "journalistic publication", has nothing to do with video games?

[Anonymous No.17931434]

>>17931425
Most STEM degrees are relatively easy and none of the people you know are exceptional in any way.

[Anonymous No.17931450]

>>17931425
gamers have no clie about anything, everytime a gaymer opens his mouth, ignorance comes out.

[Anonymous No.17931555]

>>17931434
the amount of cheating and laziness ive seen in my mech e program is insane.

[Anonymous No.17931569]

Call of the Arcade, of course.

[Anonymous No.17931581]

>>17931434
This

[Anonymous No.17931592]

>>17931057
Got it

[Anonymous No.17931765]

i wouldn't have been interested in fitness without vidya constantly showing off the human body; so at 20 i ended up going to the gym and making some good friends for years
moreover my friends in worlo of warcraf back in 04' and 05 kept my away from literal bad school "friends" irl who were into sex and drug and gang culture at age 14
games are games but they also come in many different flavors that can introduce you to another hobby or interest irl
i'm sure deus ex got plenty of people into reading more about politics and technology irl
furthermore in multiplayer games you can learn a lot about socializing and get a taste of fame that can make you grow up real quick when it comes to public opinions about you
sure none of it is sold to you in the game but with enough curiousity and iq you can pick up a lot from vidya but it could be said about anything with the reverse being a retard in vidya is a retard in any hobby
the problem with vidya is that it's loser culture because you have a ton of failures who hang on to video games at their last connection to relate to society
but that's a fault/reality of marketing since any big video game is going to be designed with the lcd in mind which isn't exclusive to vidya but is more common for vidya

[Anonymous No.17931810]

>>17931765
This is what video games do to your brain. There are people that have been homeless meth addicts for the last decade that make more coherent posts.

[Anonymous No.17931827]

>>17931569
Best gaymen book I've read since the original Halo novels.

[Anonymous No.17931832]

unironically, ready player one is a peak example of what games are doin

[Anonymous No.17932062]

>>17931765

[Anonymous No.17932149]

>>17930773
>anime
better than modern western cucked media desu senpai

[Anonymous No.17933138]

>>17931152
That's entirely wrong. Not only do video games have a number of means to introduce ideas to the player, they also allow interaction within the framework of an idea. The hazard is the narrative, but that could be said of any medium. There are far more games on the market than you could have possibly engaged with to the extent that you could criticize with any degree of accuracy the body of game narratives.

As to your ad hom on gamers, while I hate the culture, if your sole measure of virtue is wealth then there are many respectable gamers. And gaming by all appearances has gained a great deal of momentum and traction in the popular culture of children. It's no longer exclusive territory, but familiar and shared.

[Anonymous No.17933140]

All I do is game and read the classics. It's the best lowbrow entertainment going since televison started taking itself too seriously and became a propaganda machine. But I'm also a late twenties NEET with too much time on their hands.

[Anonymous No.17933189]

I made a visual novel about this in connection to waifuism. The main character is literally a shut-in NEET. Just google picrelated, its up on Itch.io

[Anonymous No.17933367]

>>17931152
Deus Ex's story was never meant to be "great". The developer mentions that the story was basically gelling a bunch of conspiracy theories together.

[Anonymous No.17933634]

>>17931043
>Better than reading the Greeks.
Ah, gamer cope to justify his poor use of free time.

[Anonymous No.17933640]

>>17931765
>on the literature board
>types like a poor brown man
Abscond from my thread, pup.

[Anonymous No.17933659]

The Myst novels are pretty great.

[Anonymous No.17933685]

>>17931204
Extremely homosexual post.
>>17933138
>That's entirely wrong. Not only do video games have a number of means to introduce ideas to the player, they also allow interaction within the framework of an idea.
Not really. The "ideas" that can be transmitted through video games are largely ignorable and superfluous to the actual core experience of the game itself. Not unlike television really. If video games actually want to thrive as a purely artistic medium then it needs to achieve so through aesthetics rather than didacticism (and so far no game holds that right to make such a claim).

[Anonymous No.17933691]

>>17930889
>>escapism bad
This but unironically.

[Anonymous No.17933698]

>>17930956
Cervantes really was a visionary.

[Anonymous No.17933702]

>>17931204
>Hamtaro: Ham-Ham Heartbreak
holy based

[Anonymous No.17933708]

>>17933685
>Not unlike television really. If video games actually want to thrive as a purely artistic medium then it needs to achieve so through aesthetics rather than didacticism (and so far no game holds that right to make such a claim)
Plenty of them do. Silent HIll 1 for instance.

[Anonymous No.17933721]

>>17933708
>Japanese horror crap coupled with cheesy voice acting and terrible survival horror gameplay
No.

[Anonymous No.17933725]

>>17933685
>If video games actually want to thrive as a purely artistic medium then it needs to achieve so through aesthetics rather than didacticism (and so far no game holds that right to make such a claim).
>(and so far no game holds that right to make such a claim)
[laughs in chlorophyll]

[Anonymous No.17933739]

>>17933725
They have the same artistic value as a Windows screensaver.

[Anonymous No.17933750]

>>17933739

[Anonymous No.17933759]

>>17933739
>Although no speech or text is used anywhere in the game aside from credits and interaction hints in the main menu, the six flower dreams follow a narrative arc. The player's starting location in each stage appears to be near the ending location of the previous one, and through the course of the game the player approaches a distant city. The first levels focus on restoring life and color to the landscape. After activating a series of windmills, the player flies through a nighttime field, illuminating darkened strings of lights until they reach the city. The city is full of menacing metal structures, small arcs of electricity, and washed-out buildings; the player enlivens the city in the final two levels and transforms it into a bright and cheerful place.
>As the player progresses through the different levels of the game, the city viewed through the apartment window in the level selection screen gradually becomes more vibrant and colorful. If the player triggers three secret flowers in each level, the cityscape is replaced with a bright field with mountains in the background. The music changes in scope as the game progresses, growing in scale and complexity and adding to the narrative arc.

[Anonymous No.17933763]

>>17933721
Your shit taste is hardly an argument against the game.
If you want to say that Silent Hill 1 does not have artistic merit you need to have a theory of objective aesthetic merit that allows you to make that judgment. For example you may think that there is a mind independent property of "beauty", and accordingly argue that works of art have merit if and only if they possess this property.
So what is this theory?

[Anonymous No.17933817]

>>17933763
Silent Hill is a blatant attempt to capitalize on Lynch-esque obscurantist symbolism only the Japanese lack the brevity or wit to do so in a manner that isn't wooden or stunted. I will admit it's not as bad in 1 as it is compared to 2 or 3, but really gaming can clearly do so much better than fucking Silent Hill 1.

[Anonymous No.17933855]

>>17933817
>but really gaming can clearly do so much better than fucking Silent Hill 1.
Then contribute constructively to the conversation; tell us what game in your mind has done the best and why.

[Anonymous No.17933879]

>>17933817
You didn't answer the question so I will ask it again.
>If you want to say that Silent Hill 1 does not have artistic merit you need to have a theory of objective aesthetic merit that allows you to make that judgment. For example you may think that there is a mind independent property of "beauty", and accordingly argue that works of art have merit if and only if they possess this property.
>So what is this theory?

[Anonymous No.17933903]

>>17931009
Watching seasonal or moe anime is worse.

[Anonymous No.17933910]

>>17930854
it's not about that at all unless you stretch the implications of peoplewatching cathastrophes play out or drowning themselves in meaningless media noise NOT BY CHOICE

[Anonymous No.17933966]

>>17933855
>Then contribute constructively to the conversation; tell us what game in your mind has done the best and why.
Why does it matter which game did what best you fucking art ho bitch? When you compare to the great works of film, let alone literature, Silent Hill IS extremely juvenile and banal. It is the slightly more mature product of an immature medium, nothing more.
>>17933879
If there's one thing that truly holds video games back as an artistic medium, it is the fact that nothing about them could constitute as "timeless". This is through a combination of factors, such as being entirely dependent on technological progress to thrive (graphics and mechanics), and the other is clumsy literary and film inspirations that denies the video game an identity of its own. Silent Hill like I said is no exception to this rule in both senses, both by being absolutely hideous by any objective metric and by shallow mimicry of the avant garde without truly transcending the medium (see: Hideo Kojima).

[Anonymous No.17934070]

>>17933966
Are you not understanding the question? As I said, we can't have a discussion about whether there are any games with aesthetic merit if we don't share a common aesthetic theory.
For example I would reject the view that aesthetic merit has anything to do with a property of beauty, because there is no such property.
My view is that art concerns the working out of a theme. The aspect of Silent HIll 1 that I will give the most credit would be the presentation of the Otherworld. The rusted fans, the metallic windmails, the strange industrial soundtrack, the sound of sirens in the background etc. create perfectly the feeling of a nightmarish reality that had started to swallow the real world. I think the theme is perfectly worked out, so I would give the game artistic credit even for that aspect alone (although I don't think this is the only one).
Most people don't accept my account of artistic merit, which is why I asked you to elaborate yours. The typical positions are either subjectivism, in which case objective aesthetic discussion is impossible, or a variant of objectivism according to which good art is characterised by the property of "beauty" which is taken to be a quality which, once detected in a work of art, compels you to appreciate it independently of whether you personally like the work or not. I take both of these to be unacceptable accounts.

[Anonymous No.17934135]

>>17930773
>gaming is a monolith
>gaming is black-white bad
>gaming is modern, modern scary
>the younger generation is degenerate, it is a catastrophe!
repeat ad infinitum into the prehistoric past and into the posthistoric future

tl;dr you're a 70IQ reactionary midwit

[Anonymous No.17934136]

>got filtered in multiplayer games
>youtube account never got above 5 views
>mom walked in while watching hentai

This is OP's life and I'm sorry for him.

[Anonymous No.17934152]

>>17931152
>Television and social media at least have the potential to introduce you to interesting schools of thought. So far, gaming does not.
20IQ take, but if you are this wilfully ignorant I shan't burst your bubble and superiority complex.

[Anonymous No.17934172]

Gamer faggots btfo. Play a few games occasionally or even often, but don't make it your whole identity.
Engage in physical exercise, get a girlfriend and read often. The stereotypes about gamers being stinky faggots are true

[Anonymous No.17934173]

>>17930773
>There's a whole generation being raise by videogames, youtube and anime and no one is talking about it.

[Anonymous No.17934177]

>>17934135
Gaming as an identity is for massive faggots. No wonder the number of virgins and a percentage of the population is going up year on year ahahahaha

[Anonymous No.17934180]

>>17934172
Reader faggots btfo. Read a few books occasionally or even often, but don't make it your whole identity.
Engage in physical exercise, get a girlfriend and go out often. The stereotypes about readers being stinky faggots are true

[Anonymous No.17934185]

>>17934070
>I would reject the view that aesthetic merit has anything to do with a property of beauty, because there is no such property
Nigger wat. Next thing you gonna say there is no knowledge in epistemology or no being in ontology.
If there is no beauty you can't have opinions of things that don't exist, so you undermine your own train of thought.

[Anonymous No.17934188]

>>17930773
It's painfully obvious that it has caused the decline of white men.

Face it, you losers, if instead of jerking it to anime and playing games, you left the house, and socialized, you wouldn't be half the socially crippled loser you are.

You're all hugging your safety blanket while niggers fuck your women and tear apart the world. This is all your fault for hugging your magic box and refusing to do anything.

[Anonymous No.17934193]

>>17934180
Based and true. I don't base my identity around literature either

[Anonymous No.17934210]

when op is a demented old fool reading the same book over and over again, gamer grandpas will still be playing the newest games and spanking preteens with literal decades of multiplayer twitch reactions baked into their nervous system

[Anonymous No.17934215]

>>17934185
As I said in my own theory art is not concerned with the property of beauty, since there is no property, but rather with the working out of a theme. You can agree or disagree with that, but if your argument is that denying beauty exists undermines aesthetics because aesthetics just is about beauty, you are simply begging the question.

[Anonymous No.17934219]

>>17934180
Image board faggots btfo. Visit some boards occasionally or even often, but don't make it your whole identity.
Engage in physical exercise, get a girlfriend and go out often. The stereotypes about channers being stinky faggots are true

[Anonymous No.17934226]

>>17934210
>the newest games
New games are shit.

[Anonymous No.17934263]

>>17934219
Based and true again. Wow, these responses haven't been wrong yet.

[Anonymous No.17934413]

>>17934215
>but rather with the working out of a theme
Okay, what does that mean exactly? It's really fucking vague, dude, so if you don't mind elaborating on that, I'm all ears. Also NTA.

[Anonymous No.17934445]

>>17934215
Yes, aesthetics is all about judgements on beauty. Without the notion of beauty you can nit pass aesthetic judgements.
Else you pretend to do mathematics without numbers.

You can not distinguish art from not-art without beauty. Is a shit pile a valid working out of a theme of shittines, hence artistic?

[Anonymous No.17934460]

>>17930773
Bleeding Edge

[Anonymous No.17934478]

>>17934413
It is difficult to give a precise definition of what a theme is, but it is a lot less difficult to give example of it. Illiad's general theme is Achilles' wrath. And of course a work of art may exhibit multiple themes.
The working out of a theme is his attempt to give a convincing account of the theme, presenting it in a coherent way. These are vague expressions, yes, but we are talking about broad categories that are supposed to apply to all works of art.

[Anonymous No.17934492]

>>17934445
I don't know what are you trying to achieve with this post since I already told you that I reject the view that artistic merit is about beauty. What one finds beautiful is subjective, but in order to make artistic criticism we need an objective theory of aesthetic merit. My own proposal is that art concerns the development of a theme.

[Anonymous No.17934505]

>>17930773
>There's a whole generation being raise by videogames, youtube and anime and no one is talking about it.
decent point, but anything 'gamer' makes me cringe

[Anonymous No.17934517]

>>17930773
There's plenty of books that touch upon how did the "entertainment era" influence the thinking of young people, Mark Fisher mentions it in Capitalist Realism a few times.

[Anonymous No.17934526]

>>17930773
>Damage
As if they are being forced to lmao

[Anonymous No.17934536]

>>17934526
Yeah, because little kids are fully aware of the dangers brought by gayming or social media

[Anonymous No.17934540]

>>17931425
>>17931765
>>17933138
>>17933763
>>17934135
>>17934136
>>17934180
>>17934210
>>17934526
Lots of coping gaymers here

[Anonymous No.17934548]

>>17934540
It's honestly scary how many redditfags there are in this thread

[Anonymous No.17934556]

>>17931152
>Even the so called greats like Planescape, Deus Ex and Vampire The Masquerade
What a terrible example of game writing

[Anonymous No.17934579]

Im a video gaming enthusiast and i could beat the fuck out of everyone in this thread. I'm fucking ripped.

[Anonymous No.17934582]

>>17931152
>Even the so called greats like Planescape, Deus Ex and Vampire The Masquerade are horrendously written.
This is confusing different art forms. The purpose of writing in a game is not the same as writing in literature. Bloodlines' dialogue is superbly written.
>In terms of gameplay, single player video games are uninteresting and terribly easy. They only offer a modest challenge to complete retards.
This is completely irrelevant, we are talking about games as an art form, not as entertainment. Whether something is entertaining or not is completely subjective and has nothing to do with artistic merit.

[Anonymous No.17934617]

>>17930850
>mini ITX
What kind of concrete coffin do you have to live in to consider this

[Anonymous No.17934628]

>>17933685
It's artsy as fuck and barely qualifies as a game in most peoples' view but GRIS depicts the grieving process while offering no prescriptive solution for how to go about it.

[Anonymous No.17934629]

It cracks me up how many chubby, lazy brainlets are seething and trying to defend vidya in this thread.

[Anonymous No.17934646]

>>17934579
Post body.

[Anonymous No.17934674]

>>17934617
based ATXchads dabbonem

[Anonymous No.17934679]

What's wrong with anime? anime can be just as good as the best of cinema or television

[Anonymous No.17934683]

>>17934579
>he thinks being ripped will help him in a fight
>he's never been in a REAL fight

[Anonymous No.17934728]

>>17934679
not book
scary
bad

[Anonymous No.17934755]

>>17934683
>being ripped would not help in a fight

[Anonymous No.17934818]

>>17934679
Most people have shit taste, and that shit taste translates to all the media they come across. So OP thinks all anime is shounen/harem garbage, and is unaware of cult classics like Texhnolyze.

[Anonymous No.17934825]

>>17934478
So you can't even define your own theory/view through which you define and look at art? Seems like you should do more thinking and a lot more reading.

[Anonymous No.17934846]

>>17934683
>i'm sure to win because my speed is superior
LOL...fucking homo...i'm 6'3 205 lbs of pure concentrated fucking MUSCLE mass. Your little brazilian dancing lesson aint gonna save u little boy!

[Anonymous No.17934904]

>>17934825
I gave you the definition, artistic activity is the activity that concerns the working out of a theme. What you are actually asking for is a detailed account of the theory that would require writing a whole book on it. But I don't think the concept is that hard to grasp, and I don't think I have to write a book on art to have an opinion on it.
In the example from Silent Hill I gave, the theme we are concerned with is the Otherworld, a reality that is a nightmarish version of the real world. It is obviously a horror-related theme, and the success of the presentation depends on how the basic idea is worked out. The combination of fog and snow, the rusted metallic surfaces, the simple but effective soundtrack etc. come together in a way that bring the theme alive, they present a convincing picture of what such a world would be like if it existed. While if they just had a bunch of zombies it would be nowhere as good.

[Anonymous No.17934952]

>>17933685
>Extremely homosexual post.
There's nothing more heterosexual than dualism.

[Anonymous No.17934977]

>>17934188
mutt hands typed this post, they always hamfist interracial sex or black cocks into any topic

[Anonymous No.17935004]

For example, Banjo-Kazooie is an absolute masterpiece blessed by Ahura Mazda, especially the Click-Clock Wood level. It feels like something Beatrix Potter or Kenneth Grahame would write. It has that nice sense of British wit and wonder towards the changing of the seasons. Banjo-Kazooie reaches the level of the great classic Western children's literature. The only reason Banjo-Kazooie did not get added to my list is because I didn't finish it when I was younger. I got stuck on that final board game. I only add works I have finished.

https://youtu.be/lIHzjKHXIsQ

[Anonymous No.17935019]

>bought 2k gaming pc two years ago
>currently it has OpenSuse installed on it and does nothing but mine etherum

[Anonymous No.17935053]

>>17930795
Troglodite opinion. You say this because you have no idea about what people born at the end of the 80s and early 90s are doing right now. Most published authors and young academics of that age watch or have consistently watched anime, and reference them in their work. In twenty years, assuming no apocalypse wipes us out before, the artistic production of people who are now in their thirties will be swirming with anime references even more than now

[Anonymous No.17935087]

>>17934846
>PURE MUSCLE
lol I'm sure, post body then faggot

[Anonymous No.17935088]

>>17935053
>anime
Here's my anime dualism list.

[Anonymous No.17935222]

>>17935019
How much you make a year?

[Anonymous No.17935396]

>>17930773
Cant believe im gonna start agreeing with everything purported by the puritan mothers I pretended to hate when I was younger

[Anonymous No.17935470]

>>17934492
You don't know much, evidently.

[Anonymous No.17935490]

Gaming ruined my youth. My friends and I would literally go to each other's house to play runescape together. I have almost no memories of having fun outside.

[Anonymous No.17935493]

>>17934556
Can you name a few good ones?

[Anonymous No.17935540]

>>17932062
>>17933640
>>17934540
He's right you assholes, like one time I saw an extremely large breasted woman on the bus but I wasn't frightened in the slightest because my long experience with video games had prepared me for just such an occurence.

[Anonymous No.17935556]

>>17935396
they knew better.

[Anonymous No.17935729]

>>17934904
The fact that you keep going at this "art is theme" bullshit shows that you should put down the controller and actually read a book or two. Seriously, this is embarassing. Keep wasting your life on videogames all you want but stop making bullshit theories to make your time sink more valid in a way. Please, read a book.

[Anonymous No.17935770]

>>17935490
agree. I have a gamerscore of 118,000 and realize I could have learned several languages and mastered many skills with the time I pissed away gaming

also turned me into a social retard (+ some bullying granted) of which I'm not fully recovered, getting there though

[Anonymous No.17935787]

>>17935770
>118,000
Bad. Ass.

[Anonymous No.17935792]

>>17931043
>There's nothing wrong with playing games occasionally.
Gaming occasionally is fine, but like most things it's not good when it turns into a lifestyle.

[Anonymous No.17935879]

>>17933910
I was told the book is about how popular media and technology influences our lives.

[Anonymous No.17935924]

>>17930773
There's a lot of cope on all fronts here.

[Anonymous No.17936024]

>>17935787
It's on my resume for sure dude
along with my Call of Duty(TM) Prestiges (R)

[Anonymous No.17936142]

>>17930850
looks tedious

[Anonymous No.17936157]

>>17935729
You haven't given any arguments against the theory, you are just dismissing it out of hand. When you are done smelling your own farts and decide to contribute to the thread we will be here.

[Anonymous No.17936227]

>>17933708
I love Silent Hill but it's just pulpy horror

[Anonymous No.17936252]

>>17936157
You don't have a theory. You have a vapid statement.
>>17934215
>art is ... the working out of a theme
>>17934478
>It is difficult to give a precise definition of what a theme is
>The working out of a theme is his attempt to give a convincing account of the theme, presenting it in a coherent way.

So art is working out of a something difficult to precisely define in one's attempt to give a convincing account of something difficult to precisely define, presented in a coherent way.
Great fucking job, gib him doctor philosophiae and a chair of Aesthetics in Burgervard University.
Or maybe stop smoking digital crack and try A Very Short Introduction into Beauty by Roger Scruton at least.

[Anonymous No.17936416]

>>17936227
All horror is pulp.

[Anonymous No.17936442]

>>17930773
Gaming isn't a problem. Neither is Youtube, anime, porn, or any form of entertainment. The problems you're seeing are either self-induced (you are in a desperate state of affairs and see only the bad things in the current world) or they're the result of economic and political factors largely outside our control.

[Anonymous No.17936444]

>>17936252
>You don't have a theory. You have a vapid statement.
I already made a longer post elaborating the view, but apparently you aren't interested in actual discussion.
>So art is working out of a something difficult to precisely define in one's attempt to give a convincing account of something difficult to precisely define, presented in a coherent way.
That kind of criticism could be leveled at any aesthetic theory. For example if you used beauty as the criterion of aesthetic merit, I could ask you to define beauty and you wouldn't be able to give a satisfying reply. Obviously the most general concepts in philosophy cannot be defined, because a term can only be defined with a more general term. And aesthetic theory places us very close to the most general philosophical terms.
>try A Very Short Introduction into Beauty by Roger Scruton at least.
Lmao, at least recommend Plato or something if you want to keep the facade intellectual superiority.

[Anonymous No.17936504]

>>17936442
No. I am not responsible for my own actions, society is.

[Anonymous No.17936546]

>>17930773
You honestly cannot hope to discuss a topic like this in a website where most people are porn addicted lonely young men.
Notice how the discussion went as if it was a pipeline from the effects of videogames on society to the artistic merits of videogames (which was not the point made originally), these people genuinely act like a computer script.

[Anonymous No.17936674]

>>17930850
Don't, every producer, every guide, everything in PC space is optimized for a normal case airflow.
There's no point, just use a normal tower, get slightly longer cables and obfuscate it.

[Anonymous No.17936799]

>>17936504
No. You are responsible for your actions. Always.

[Anonymous No.17936810]

>>17936799
No, society is the only reason we do anything. If society had not created vidya, I wouldn't play vidya. Simple as.

[Anonymous No.17936818]

>>17936444
But you really don't have a theory, though. The textbook definition of aesthetics is that it is the study of beauty. This is the common ground. There is no need to prove an already established position when you are the one with juvenile ideas about "themes". "Theme" is basically like plot.

Is abstract art not aesthetical since it doesn't have a clear theme? What about architecture? Gardening? A nice table? These things are seen as aesthetical because there is beauty in their craft. There are no "themes". "Themes" are what your high school English professor asks you to name because it's easier and not very deep.

Please read a book.

[Anonymous No.17936845]

>>17931152
And what about the writing in this Game?

[Anonymous No.17936856]

>>17936845
I think I remember someone bringing this up here and they said it was on par with or worse than Stephen fucking King. Honestly I don't get it. It's not the most mindblowing prose but it still blows a lot of the lower rungs that King's work inhabits out of the water.

[Anonymous No.17936858]

>>17936810
That's stupid. How did "Society" create video games anyway? Whatever, let's pretend that it did. By that logic, SOCIETY also created literally any other pasttime.
You can go to a gym because of society.
You can go to a nightclub because of society.
You can go to a museum because of society.
You can read books because of society.
You can go to hundreds of places and partake in hundreds of activities (you say) are given to you by society. The fact that you choose video games is just a choice from the multitude. Society doesn't force you to choose that one specific way to spend your time. It's your choice.
Simple as.

[Anonymous No.17936889]

>>17930773
The damage effects of vidya are the same as the social media and porn. With the exception that vidya could have a point or two in a decent so-called intelectual category.

[Anonymous No.17936931]

>>17936889
>With the exception that vidya could have a point or two in a decent so-called intelectual category.
What does this even mean? Video game writing is and always will be shit. The best thing you can get from video games is training your reaction time, alertness (FPS, fighting games) and strategic + quick problem solving (RTS)

[Anonymous No.17936991]

>>17936931
>Video game writing is and always will be shit
What does that have to do with anything, faggot? OP wasn't talking about vidya writing.

[Anonymous No.17937048]

>>17936991
Im not replying to OP you fat faggot

[Anonymous No.17937099]

>>17937048
I'm waiting to see where vidya writing was mentioned.

[Anonymous No.17937103]

>>17936810

[Anonymous No.17937110]

>>17936858
That's only the illusion of choice. Vidya or books, gym or nightclub, all of it is interchangeable escapism that I must partake in.

[Anonymous No.17937134]

>>17937110
I SIMPLY MUST CONSUME

[Anonymous No.17937152]

>>17937099
>With the exception that vidya could have a point or two in a decent so-called intelectual category.
>so-called intelectual
He's trying to say that video games have "intellectual" merit. With what you believe he bases his claim if not writing?
Faggot.

[Anonymous No.17937169]

>>17937152
Puzzle design for one.

[Anonymous No.17937178]

>>17937134
Unironically, yes. I have to consume. If I don't I will have nothing. All my value is based on material goods. If I didn't have my car, I wouldn't have met my gf, if I did not play CoD I wouldn't have my friend group, if I did not read Stephen King I would be left out of my book club, and if I did not watch the latest Netflix series I wouldn't be able to socialize at the office and stay in good graces. I must consume or I will lag behind.

[Anonymous No.17937190]

>>17937169
No. Fuck you nigger.

[Anonymous No.17937211]

>>17937178
many such cases. Sad!

[Anonymous No.17937454]

>>17931152
Good post. Other replies are gamer cope. Just like porn users, gamers have traditionally been viewed as losers by everyone else until the recent normalization efforts.

[Anonymous No.17937858]

>>17936444
>Lmao, at least recommend Plato or something
Plato? Nigga you crackhead. You read game prompts all day, cause you evidently have troubles comprehending imageboard posts. A Very Short Intro will be the upper limit of your reading abilities while in gaming rehab.

[Anonymous No.17939244]

>>17930795
>Video games are only slightly worse than television.
Television is ten times worse than video games. Video games can sometimes be neutral, but television as in institution is foundationally designed to be mind control.

[Anonymous No.17939688]

>>17930773
Cry more, boomer faggot.

[Anonymous No.17940198]

>>17933189
I won't sorry but good for you!

[Anonymous No.17940296]

>>17937110
Whatever activity you think isn't escapism, that's also available to you thanks to society. Without society, you would have less options, and a much harder time achieving anything.

[Anonymous No.17940326]

>>17936674
Why? NZXT is a pretty big company, and the design follows most larger ones, just slightly slimmed down. its not like its a super tiny 10 litter case or something. And its not like im plaining to do 4k shit on it.

Also, I like how it comes with a lot of shit packed in like cooling and a power supply and I only really need to get a motherboard, cpu, memory and storage. Its like in in between of a pre built and a self made.

[Anonymous No.17940401]

Perfect Cherry Blossom is the only good vidya ever made.

[Anonymous No.17940476]

>>17940326
GPU thermals are ass.
That 10 L case you're thinking about (the FormD T1) is superior to most tower cases in terms of airflow and thermal/acoustic performance.
The H1 is already suffering from GPU size incompatibility issues, which will only get worse as time goes on and shrouds get bigger and bigger.
A 650W PSU is barely cutting it today - you'll spend more buying another PSU in the future, than buying a 750/800W SFX today yourself.
The H1 was obsolete before it was even released.
SFF is a fucking headache and I understand how attractive the H1 is, but it will only give you more headaches, and cause you to spend more money later down the line than if you just bought a better case and the PSU / cooler yourself.

[Anonymous No.17940583]

>>17931152
>planescape is horrendously written
now you're just being incendiary for its own sake, also games are vastly and instrinsically different from books - even rpgs that are 99% reading. games are about autonomy, giving an existing (moral) agent choice, this is what sets them apart. in this regard, even the shittiest rpg does this infinitely better than a book can do. i am similarly antagonistic towards vidya tho, and would agree that basically all are dogtrash because most vidya doesn't justify itself as vidya because either A) they aren't difficult, or B) you aren't made to think about your choices

>>17934582
this

[Anonymous No.17940664]

>>17931152
>>17940583
further still, keep in mind planescape has around twice the word count as infinite jest and the majority of the purpose of that writing is to explain to you qualia that graphics could not convey whose sole purpose is to help you, the player of a role, play that role, where your choices are continually transfigured by the information conveyed to you through the writing. this is intrinsically vastly different from literature and most of the time there just isn't any need for chris avellone to sit there fretting over poetics when all he's doing is writing a scene for a smelly, side-of-a-side quest homeless man whose purpose is to be one of many extremely tiny choices you make which make an aggregate infleunce over the whole of the outcome of your game. it's just not the same at all...

[Anonymous No.17940960]

>>17933138
>That's entirely wrong. Not only do video games have a number of means to introduce ideas to the player, they also allow interaction within the framework of an idea. The hazard is the narrative, but that could be said of any medium. There are far more games on the market than you could have possibly engaged with to the extent that you could criticize with any degree of accuracy the body of game narratives.
Oh my fucking god dude just admit that video games are toys. It’s ok. Toys can be a really fun thing to do with friends.

[Anonymous No.17941522]

>>17930850
Buy land

[Anonymous No.17941582]

>>17936818
>But you really don't have a theory, though. The textbook definition of aesthetics is that it is the study of beauty. This is the common ground. There is no need to prove an already established position when you are the one with juvenile ideas about "themes".
In other words, I come with a theory that goes against the consensus, and you reply that since you already accept the consensus, my theory has to be wrong.
But admittedly one could argue that if a theory of art departs too violently from the common usage of the term, we may question if it really is a theory of "art" at all. After all, what is art if not the study of beauty?
According to what I will dub the "rationalist" view, beauty is taken to be (1) an objective quality present in beautiful things and define them as beautiful, and simultaneously (2) something the essence of which is being intrinsically preferable or preference-guiding.
Now although this is a correct analysis of the nominal definition of beauty (this is indeed how the term is actually used), the question is whether it picks anything real in the world. And there are some, to my mind decisive, objections to this view.
The most important one is that (2) is incoherent. According to (2) the essence of beauty is constituted by a relation to an external thing. But beauty cannot be constituted by its own relation, because a relation presupposes the relata. To put the point in a picturesque way, if beauty is constituted by the relation of beauty to X, beauty is the relation of the relation of beauty to X and so on ad infinitum.
Since I reject that "beauty" in the above sense exists but I accept that the ordinary concept of beauty speaks exactly of beauty in the above sense, I am lead to an error theory of beauty. Now a typical response of someone who accepts this conclusion is to drop aesthetic theory altogether, and to argue for a linguistic reform, treating our aesthetic judgments as subjective expressions of the type "I like X". And this would mean that we will have to treat as useless all that has been written by the topic. Alternatively, we may try to hold to a theory of objective aesthetics by accepting (1) and rejecting (2), by insisting that beauty is an objective quality of things while rejecting the doctrine of constitutive relations. This is the direction I tried to move towards with my talk of "themes".
Now I said that aesthetics is not about beauty, but I put it that way because beauty is normally taken to be the entity that I argued against.

[Anonymous No.17941607]

>>17941582
>In other words, I come with a theory that goes against the consensus, and you reply that since you already accept the consensus, my theory has to be wrong.
This is simply a cope on your end that you use to justify and excuse your half-baked stance on what "art" is, even though you're just running in circles and are blurting out gibberish after gibberish. Everything else is just a wall of senseless noise, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

[Anonymous No.17941624]

>>17931152
>Even the so called greats like Planescape, Deus Ex and Vampire The Masquerade are horrendously written.
By all means elaborate, anon. Surely you can walk the walk, after talking the talk?

[Anonymous No.17942413]

>>17941522
I already have land. I likely have more land than you do, or ever will.

[Anonymous No.17943080]

>>17940476
Well, I guess that's good to know, thanks for the tip guy. Any relatively small cases you recommend? nothing super small, but like 25 litters or less, dont have a lot of space.

[Anonymous No.17943095]

>>17943080
also, I like the whole pre cable managed thing, lol.

[Anonymous No.17943102]

>>17940583
>giving an existing (moral) agent choice, this is what sets them apart. in this regard, even the shittiest rpg does this infinitely better than a book can do.
No, they don't give you moral agency. They give you a simulation of moral agency in a context with no stakes.

What's different from that and a simple philosophical thought experiment, aside from the window dressing?

God gamers are such fucking faggots

[Anonymous No.17943142]

>>17941624
He's right, even the 'best' games are dogshit. Terribly paced, confusing, horribly written nonsense.

[Anonymous No.17943239]

>>17941582
And where does your fucking theme thing comes in, asshole?

[Anonymous No.17943394]

>>17933759
That's sounds idiotic

[Anonymous No.17943551]

>>17943102
>What's different from that and a simple philosophical thought experiment
Nothing, and I would even agree that under my definition "choose your own adventure books" are games as well. Not only that but I would also have to agree that most games, especially games like half-life, are dogshit because they are both linear and not difficult and so have no reason to be games at all. However I don't think thought experiments or choice books (which I see as games stripped down to their barest form) render games irrelevant, not least because these things don't incorporate all of the other supplementary aspects that games generally have but because thought experiments literally and figuratively require less RAM. If I'm invested in a character that I've spent many hours on and he has a gun to his head, I may be liable to make choices that I would not have made in the perfect barebones world of a thought experiment

>No, they don't give you moral agency. They give you a simulation of moral agency in a context with no stakes.
So, moral agency? Thanks for at least agreeing (while also validating everything else I said by focusing on an ancillary claim I made and ignoring the others). Your only valid point here is that there are "no stakes" but this is nebulous and devolves into a boring philosophy debate and also it's largely a strawman because nobody is claiming that playing an rpg set in an impossible world is tantamount to being in that world. But the fact that there even are meagre stakes at all such as sympathies and time spent, I think is a big deal.

Also I don't even necessarily agree with my own point that games are set apart by moral agency (and so would not agree with your simulation of moral agency point either), as I was hyperfocused on planescape/crpgs in my post, but I don't really think this applies to arcade games and so I should have just stuck with saying "choice" instead.

>God gamers are such fucking faggots
You do understand how asspained and emotional this comes across? There's an F-word I'm thinking of that applies to people like this, hmm. Look in the mirror, babby, and tell me what you see. Are you angry enough to respond to me now? Do I need to call you a faggot outright? Or a dumbfuck that should have been able to think of things that I just said in this post, but has too clearly has too small of a brain to have done so?

>>17943142
Not that guy but most of the most highly praised games are indefensible dogshit, I agree. I don't think anyone could disagree with you here, which makes defending games as a medium very difficult. But I do think there are games that are not those things like ffvi, planescape, sid meier's alpha centauri and so if you want to have this discussion and attack something about these games in particular I feel like I can sufficiently defend this position. And as long as I can defend *some* games, I feel the medium as a whole is also justified even if 99% of it is bad (just like books)

[Anonymous No.17944426]

>>17943551
An action with no stakes can't be moral.
>but this is nebulous and devolves into a boring philosophy debate and also it's largely a strawman
This is as straightforward as it gets. If you don't risk anything, you don't prove anything. There is no meaningful choice. Merely breathing is a not a moral action ffs.
If you can endlessly replay a game with different choices or even save-load, there is no choice at all, much less meaningful.

[Anonymous No.17944574]

>>17936546
>Notice how the discussion went as if it was a pipeline from the effects of videogames on society to the artistic merits of videogames
It's because any time videa is brought up, you get a "high culture vs low culture" flame war with both sides having little idea what thay're talking about.

[Anonymous No.17944591]

>>17944574
> It's because any time any topic is brought up, you get a "high culture vs low culture" flame war with both sides having little idea what thay're talking about.