Best Libertarian-Socialism /lit/?

[Anonymous No.17945085]

[Anonymous No.17945132]

I liked
>No Gods No Masters (anthology)
>Demanding the Impossible
>Anarchism and Other Essays
>Vision on Fire
>Living My Life
>Mutual Aid a Factor in Evolution
>Conquest of Bread
>God and State
>Against Equality
To name a few

[Anonymous No.17945144]

>>17945085
>Libertarian-Socialism
No such thing.

[Anonymous No.17945155]

>>17945144
Your either retarded or American but I suppose that would be me repeating myself

[Anonymous No.17945160]

>>17945155
Kill yourself you braindead leftist imbecile.

[Anonymous No.17945194]

>>17945155
He's right. Any sort of leftist ideology will be anti-libertarian almost by definition. In the last 100 years leftists won almost every political battle they found themselves involved it and look what happened. There are more regulations, stricter laws and constraints on pretty much everything from the economy through college sexual abuse law to freedom of speech.

[Anonymous No.17945208]

>>17945194
>leftists won economics
bro...

[Anonymous No.17945227]

It's funny how every form of libertarian socialism has ended exactly the same for hundreds of years.

[Anonymous No.17945237]

>>17945208
Depends where you live. If you're an American then probably not. If you're Danish or Swedish than you can safely say that in terms of economics the left was shaping the last 100 years politically and my point still stands

[Anonymous No.17945243]

>>17945237
Don't you have to wage slave there too though?

[Anonymous No.17945249]

The two worst ideologies combined into one? What could go wrong?

[Anonymous No.17945255]

>>17945243
I don't think of it as something binary. I look at the economy and see there are more taxes and more regulations than prior to leftist ascent to power. Yes, that's still capitalism, but a reddish shade of it

[Anonymous No.17945264]

>>17945085
The Ecology of Freedom - Bookchin.
He’s perhaps more Anarchist but a lot of what he has to say fits your criteria I think

[Anonymous No.17945319]

>>17945194
>In the last 100 years leftists won almost every political battle

[Anonymous No.17945334]

>>17945319
Not an argument

[Anonymous No.17945355]

>>17945144
The two can only exist in combination, though. No liberty with wage slavery, no socialism with state interference.

[Anonymous No.17945384]

>>17945355
>no socialism with state interference
99% of socialists I know of champion stuff like taking away children from homophobic aka christian parents by the state, total ban on meat products and massive constraints on freedom of speech

[Anonymous No.17945389]

>>17945255
Hardly libertarian leftism though, whether or not you think such a thing is possible

[Anonymous No.17945397]

>>17945384
Unsurprising, 99% of any group are idiots.

[Anonymous No.17945419]

>>17945397
Yes, but it's those people who'll be shaping the potential libertarian socialist communities not the 1% of the reasonable ones

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.17945425]

>>17945144
>>17945160
>>17945249
Ron Paul isn’t a libertarian. He’s a neoclassical liberal. Liberals steal things to confuse your little brains. Reprogram them, newfigs

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.17945435]

>>17945384
You don’t know any socialists

[Anonymous No.17945439]

>>17945085
That's an oxymoron for zoomers who like libertarian ideas but can't divorce themselves from leftist ideology.

[Anonymous No.17945440]

>>17945435
>they're not socialists because I say they are not socialists

[Anonymous No.17945445]

>>17945425
What does Ron Paul advocate stealing?

[Anonymous No.17945461]

>>17945435
John Roemer, Yanis Varoufakis, Rudolf Rocker, Bookchin, Anton Pannekoek, Bakunin, Saint-Simon, Parenti, Thomas Jefferson

[Anonymous No.17945469]

>>17945425
>>17945435
yes toots, up is down and down is up, great contribution as always

[Anonymous No.17945468]

>>17945425
And no one even brought him up, you brain dead stick with wings.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.17945482]

>>17945440
They’re not socialists because they’re liberals. Or some weird tanky/liberal hybrid they’re still trying to work out. Simple as.

>>17945445
The term libertarian from the libertarians. He’s a liberal who doesn’t like the progressivism/new deal democrat direction of his ideology. He still believes free markets are good. He’s a damn liberal

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.17945493]

>>17945469
>He says are the idiot Americans are still clogging up the thread

[Anonymous No.17945495]

>>17945482
Anarchism is just radical liberalism. Don't try to disown the liberals, they're your ideological grandfathers

[Anonymous No.17945496]

>>17945482
It's a common myth that Right wing libertarians stole it from socialists. The first use of libertarian was by a capitalist.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.17945500]

>>17945469
>He says as the idiot Americans are still clogging up the thread

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.17945519]

>>17945495
Read these >>17945132 before ever posting again.

[Anonymous No.17945537]

>>17945500
We are Anonymous, now go shit in a flower

[Anonymous No.17945568]

>>17945519
This is your typical response. Your posts never contain any substance. It's always either "read 1000 books or else don't even think about posting". Have you read even half of them? I doubt it. Prominent anarchists like Chomsky endorse the idea of continuity between liberalism and anarchism. You're on the losing side here

[Anonymous No.17945580]

>>17945568
Chromsky supports the progressive new deal stuff anyways, what’s the difference between these retards anyways?

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.17945601]

>>17945568
My response to the idiot idea that anti-capitalism is the same as pro-capitalism is that you are woefully ill informed and need to read, yes. This IS a literature board. If you don’t like the cure for your idiocy, then here’s a shocker for ya. YOU ARE ON THE WRONG BOARD

[Anonymous No.17945617]

>>17945601
>My response to the idiot idea that anti-capitalism is the same as pro-capitalism
I said anarchism is radical liberalism. I didn't say they are the same. Maybe it's not me who has to read more?

[Anonymous No.17945626]

>>17945425
>>17945482
>bitches about semantics to distract from their frail ideology

[Anonymous No.17945633]

>>17945617
kek

[Anonymous No.17945670]

>>17945601
After seeing your posts, maybe you should take your own advice tranny.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.17945683]

>>17945617
“Radical liberalism”: someone who has absolute faith in the free market’s ability to someday set the world right

This isn’t libertarian-socialism at all.

>>17945626
You want a book to read?

[Anonymous No.17945741]

>>17945683
I've got one thanks

[Anonymous No.17945759]

>>17945683
You can’t have socialism without central planing just like you can’t have “absolute faith in the free market” (Anrcho capitalism) without a structure of capitalism of some way to ingrain this process without a state, is your plan to live on farms of 10 people that dress in woman’s clothing to larp in the woods or something?

[Anonymous No.17945798]

>>17945264
Bookchin was a crypto-marxist masquerading as an anarchist.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.17945806]

>>17945759
>Anrcho capitalism
There’s the contradiction in terms.

And no, apparently you can’t have socialism with centralized states. What tankies like to call “actually existing socialism” never was and cannot seem to to fulfill this. Ever hear of Rojava?
>is your plan to...

[Anonymous No.17945834]

>>17945085
gets refuted by a 60 page pamphlet

[Anonymous No.17945879]

>>17945806
There is a process called perfecting government, in the sense that you have just right amount of jurisdiction and rules is when situations arise and how you cope with them; especially during times of crisis. A type of malleability. The goal is to not dogmatically assume you can get rid of it, but to find the right amount of state to maintain things, such as a republic. With what your describing is frankly an oxymoron, if you establish a “non state entity” sort of Council or public system it will all devolve into a state of tyranny on this basis. If the state can allocate resources (which it needs too) will by definition corrupt the structure. You must destroy the biological consequences of self-preservation...

[Anonymous No.17945893]

>>17945798
He agreed with Marx’s theories on some things, but I get the impression he wasn’t a fan of them overall because of their reluctance to get with the times, basically lol
https://www.marxists.org/archive/bookchin/1969/listen-marxist.htm

[Anonymous No.17946253]

>>17945237
>Social democracy is the same as anarchism
Ngmi

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.17946354]

>>17945879
>You must destroy the biological consequences of self-preservation...
>Tyrants are only trying to preserve themselves
...which is why we need decent psychiatric wards heading into this

[Anonymous No.17946432]

>>17946354
Please buttercuck, you would consider the amish to be in a state of tyranny and yet they have a better grasp on commneul living compared to whatever anarcho-diarrhea with tranny characteristics your trying to do.

Wokies trans faggots such as yourself are incapable of realizing that your gay and ostensibly "transgressive" values are handed down to them by the people who occupy the apex of civilizational power.

if they would ever resolved this cognitive dissonance you would realize that they are, in fact, bootlickers.

[Anonymous No.17946476]

>>17946354
Yeah, that’s who societies work...

[Anonymous No.17946538]

>>17946354
>I deserve a little bit more of my own labor
>NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO GET IN THE GULAG
Sounds central already.

[Anonymous No.17946565]

>>17945144
This

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.17946606]

>>17946432
You hardly asked. They’re in the state of Pennsylvania. And you need to read Graeber’s Direct Action and see the direct connection the two have.
>wokies
Idiot.

>>17946476
When they pull together, I know. So shove off to all bootlickers and liberal class structures.

>>17946538
More like, “stop hitting your brother and eat your broccoli”

>>17946565
You’re as big a fool as he is

[Anonymous No.17946626]

>>17946606
>You’re as big a fool as he is
Exactly. That guy maybe is not very smart. Now here's the thing - about 70% of the people think similarly to him. You have to live with them in an anarchist commune. Challenge for you - would you still insist on designing that commune around the idea of participatory democracy or would you rather took power without giving a fuck about democracy?

[Anonymous No.17946652]

>>17946606
More like, why is that my neighbors crops failed so I have to suffer for it? that’s his doing and I have nothing apart of it, you are nothing over me.

[Anonymous No.17946663]

>>17946626
Democracy only works with people who know how to learn and enjoy doing it, assuming the commune is functioning you won't have 70% of a population in a situation where they don't.

[Anonymous No.17946670]

>>17946606
>wokies
Yes, your a tranny. A byproduct of today’s phase of neoliberal liberation. Like a domesticated Dog trying to live in the wild, honestly it’s very funny.

[Anonymous No.17946672]

>>17945085
sod off, retard. the two are not compatible.

[Anonymous No.17946686]

>>17946606
“Democracy is not self executing” is an incredibly profound line that you should look into. it’s not possible without a centralized authority setting up the process which while you do participate in, have barely any control over. You already did so when you refuse to give the man more of his labor. Your not allowed to make choices, something i’ve seen in the BLM people communal in which people have died from.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.17946699]

>>17946686
That book again
You can’t talk about any of this without knowing the bare facts.

>>17946652
>I have nothing apart of it
You do.

>>17946670
>your
*sigh* No, I am not. I am not your imaginary liberal tranny. Fuck off.

>>17946672
It’s another name for anarchist, you dolt or troll (but there isn’t really a difference)

[Anonymous No.17946731]

>>17946699
Not an argument. if that tranny can’t farm and I have to bite the bullet for that, that’s his problem while I can farm better than the tranny. When you force it like you do now due to mob rule, people will no longer willingly, participate in your mob rule society. It’s called self preservation like that anon said, you’ve already failed and you haven’t even started yet.

[Anonymous No.17946748]

>>17946699
The skin you wear and the identity you claim to be comes form nowhere else but babylon and it’s money funders.

[Anonymous No.17946753]

>>17946699
I'd like you more if you were

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.17946774]

>>17946731
If you’re in the same community, neighbors, and his crop gets infected with something, it concerns everyone. No sensible farmer is going to pull this shitty merchant posture, fool.

[Anonymous No.17946829]

>>17946774
>If you’re in the same community, neighbors, and his crop gets infected with something, it concerns everyone.
You have yet to explain why, my crops are fine and his aren’t. Are you going to all march down and take my crops from me like a pack of animals with out any sense of liberty on my behalf? in your own definition when a central body accesses recourses they alone can be a form of tyranny for not only me, but for other farmers as well. You therefore are stealing my fruits and my labor. Really think how that’s going to effect that farmer. In times of strive through no matter what, if farmers can’t farm or bad weather, they’re WILL be hoarding; they can still pitch in but never to their own destruction. Your society will not be able to cope in this situation while a libertarian society can easily.

[Anonymous No.17948582]

>>17945144
wow you're an actual retard.

[Anonymous No.17948667]

>>17945243
Not if you're Arab or Somali.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.17948718]

>>17946829
One day your crop is fine, the next it’s not. But I believe you were trying to make the case for hoarding yours. Just not the reason farmers are doing what they do. That’s a shitty capitalist merchant mindset, and civil society doesn’t last long with that sort.

[Anonymous No.17948933]

>>17948718
Check out The Artificial River. It lays out how capitalit mindset overtook rural farmers as cannals were built in the north east providing farmers with markets to sell their goods as well as cementing the petitioning of government to cover business losses. Some good commentary on the treatment of the Irish too.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.17948948]

>>17948933
Covered. Fuck accumulative currency

[Anonymous No.17949831]

>>17945425
>newfigs
Thank you for not being homophobic.

[Anonymous No.17950007]

>>17945144
This
>I hate big government but want government to give me stuff for free

[Anonymous No.17950677]

>>17950007
That sounds good, dumbass.

[Anonymous No.17950742]

>>17945355
"Wage slavery" i.e. working for food. Socialists want to set the terms for human interaction which is inherently anti-liberty.

[Anonymous No.17950796]

Corporatism is still the answer

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.17950945]

>>17949831
Yw bby

But even if I use the f word, I’m not being a homophobe

[Anonymous No.17951804]

>>17945085
If you have to assert that you are not like the other commies you have already lost.

[Anonymous No.17951861]

>>17950742
Being required to sell labor in order to survive is already a term for human interaction and thus, in your logic, anti-liberty

[Anonymous No.17951878]

>>17945144
>>>/pol/
>>17950007
Libertarian socialists want a stateless classless society.

[Anonymous No.17951893]

>>17951878
Every Marxist does.

[Anonymous No.17951904]

>>17951878
there's no society without state or class. hierarchies are an inevitability

[Anonymous No.17951928]

Why do libsocs act like they arent going to get curbstomped by capitalist nations every single time

[Anonymous No.17951948]

>Why do libsocs act like they arent going to get curbstomped by capitalist nations every single time

[Anonymous No.17951982]

There are only three political systems: liberalism, fascism, and marxism-leninism. Libsoc is copium

[Anonymous No.17952000]

>>17945085
Just read Marx :3

[Anonymous No.17952003]

>>17951904
>there's no society

[Anonymous No.17952069]

>>17945085
>Libertarian-Socialism
Call it Anarchism tyvm
>>17945194
>leftists
Doesn't mean anything. Any progressive notion will always be "left", no matter how how small or backwards it is, and we started from a place where Totalitarianism is the default mode.
The US is Liberal/"left" at it's root and core, and yet burgers shit themselves whenever someone uses either term.
>>17945227
It's funny how everything has always ended exactly the same way when you pick and chose and generalize it into meanninglessness. What is the point of your empty rhetoric?
>>17945237
Social Democracy shaped Scandinavian societies into open, free, equal, and democratic nations, until your parents sold it all for mortgages and private deeds on communal housing, just like the US and UK. Don't blame the ideology for your greed.

[Anonymous No.17952130]

>>17951948
You post that but I presume you are living in a capitalist country how would that image work I'm the one winning

[Anonymous No.17952140]

>>17952069
>What is the point of your empty rhetoric?
For you to seethe that you can't bring up one example where everyone wasn't slaughtered

[Anonymous No.17952177]

>>17945834
How?

[Anonymous No.17952190]

>>17945834
Is guy a foucauldian?

[Anonymous No.17952524]

>when you realize butterfly is right about everything

[Anonymous No.17953132]

>>17948948
ITT Google argues with itself to find it was correct all along

"I'm not a robot"

[Anonymous No.17954037]

>>17952524
>t.butterbraps

[Anonymous No.17954305]

>>17951878
no such thing will ever exist unless we go mad max and even then their will be concubines and chads enslaving concubines

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.17955080]

>>17953132
Eh?