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/lit/ - Literature


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18272844 No.18272844 [Reply] [Original]

Beast Metropolis Edition
Previous Thread:>>18252397

>Recommended reading charts (Look here before asking for vague recs)
https://mega.nz/folder/kj5hWI6J#0cyw0-ZdvZKOJW3fPI6RfQ

>Archive
https://warosu.org/lit/?task=search2&search_subject=sffg

>Goodreads
https://www.goodreads.com/group/show/1029811-sffg

>A link to the ultimate colossal science fiction and fantasy collection torrent.
>>>/t/1023504

>Discord
Never going to be created

>> No.18272944

>>18272844
Just bought a bunch of self-publish sff books from Amazon. Hope you guys are doing you’re part in keeping the sci-fi and fantasy community alive.

>> No.18272963
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18272963

Anyone read this? How is it?

>> No.18272977

>>18272844
>be european
>currently impossible to buy any sci fi books in english that are older than 10 years because the Rona fucked the supply chain

I really don't want to read Ringworld on the kindle, but I might have to.

>> No.18273061

>>18272977
>european
Europe is not a country. Ringworld is available without problems here, literally on amazon but also on ebay (new).

>> No.18273227
File: 58 KB, 394x576, Fang Yuan swordart.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
18273227

Fang Yuan: "This was the harshness of reality, and also the beauty of fate. In this world, everyone is a main character, but everyone is also a side character."

>> No.18273408

>>18272977
Ebooks, anon. Why must you read on dead trees when you can read on the results of burning the bodies of dead monsters?

>> No.18273414

>>18273408

Ebooks cause more harm for the enviroment

>> No.18273478
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18273478

Reminder to read Conan

>> No.18273632
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18273632

>>18273414

>> No.18273681

>>18273414
>cut down tree, turn into paper, print and bind, ship to store, transport to consumer
>0.001 kw/h of energy over lifetime of use

You're kinda retarded aren't you, anon?

>> No.18274003
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18274003

>>18273478
Conan turned me into an incel.
>fail to self insert
>watch as he treats women exactly the same way as the guys that keep them as concubines but it's okay because he has pretty eyes and animal vibes despite ditching them at the side of the road to pick up a different one in next week's adventure
>realize young I don't have a chance against chad
>realize in high school I don't have a chance at all
Anyway yeah read Conan the stories are fun.

>> No.18274036

I need a wish fulfillment book where the protag bags an exotic lay and enters a relationship with it

>> No.18274139

>>18274036
Daniel Black series
Codex Alera

>> No.18274180

>>18274139
Kitai is the GOAT waifu

>> No.18274204
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18274204

>>18274139
>Daniel Black series
These?

>> No.18274222

>>18273681
Trees will grow back.
The destruction caused to Mother Earth by producing an ereader is irreversible.

>> No.18274264

>>18274204
No the one by E. William Brown

>> No.18274269

>>18274264
>E. William Brown
ahh...
I was getting wildly confused at those books

>> No.18274327

>>18272963
I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's shit, because everything I've read by John Gwynne has been shit. Everything he writes has at least one 15 year old girl who is inexplicably just as physically capable as grown men.

>> No.18274408

>>18274222
Do you think ereaders somehow transform natural matter into some supernatural slurry of evil?

>> No.18274426

>>18274222
Oh wow, you actually are retarded. I'm sorry I shouldn't have made fun of you, I thought you were either joking or had a senior moment.

>> No.18274427
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18274427

>>18226772
ok, I just finished Fool's Errand, and I'm back on the Robin Hobb train. Shit's good. But I have to admit that it's still rather bloated. The first third of the book is pretty much an elaborate recap of the previous trilogy. Where old characters just meet up and talk and reminisce about the past. And it's a long as fuck book too. When I say 1/3, I mean like 8-9 hours of audio. For comparison, your average Cradle book is about 8 hours.

But I said I needed a refresher on events, and that's what it gave me, so I'm thankful for that. Perhaps it helps that the audiobook narrator is really good, so he makes conversational dialogue interesting. I love his interpretation of the fool. He gives him this asexual quality to his voice. Not sounding definitely masculine or feminine, but right in between. And when the fool gets into his aristocratic role, he makes him sound haughty.

They could have edited down some of the intro though. I know Robin Hobb wanted to establish a strong bond between the characters, but still it felt like some of it was excessive.

And Fitz is still frustratingly dense. I forgot about that. He was rash and stupid and for god knows what reason, people tolerate him. All because he has powers I guess. And he's really good at killing. But Fitz ALWAYS makes situations worse than they have to be. He ALWAYS makes bad decisions, or fails to plan, or fails to control his impulses. Constantly bungling everything. It's so annoying. I'm really trying to search for a redeeming quality. But he's just a huge fuck-up. I don't root for him at all. I just pray he doesn't fuck things up irrevocably.

>> No.18274439

>>18274408
Yes, and I'm gonna write a book about it.

>> No.18274458

>>18274427
Is that the second or the third trilogy? For the love of god, don't read the third trilogy.

>> No.18274498

>>18274458
Depends how you're counting. This is the third trilogy for "Realm of the Elderlings". But the second trilogy that follows Fitz's story. The order of trilogies being:
1. Fitz
2. Boats
3. Fitz again. (I'm here)

>> No.18274503

>>18274439
make the title an acrostic poem,

>> No.18274511

>>18274498
Yeah I remember now. The second Fitz trilogy is alright, and it has a scene that was absolutely perfect to finish the series on towards the end. No spoiler, it's literally just Fitz and Kettricken having a drink together. It was perfect. Unfortunately the author just couldn't leave well enough alone.

>> No.18274541

>>18274511
>No spoiler, it's literally just Fitz and Kettricken having a drink together.
That's kind of a spoiler. I can deduce from that a few things. But whatever, that's minor. Just don't say any more about the ending. In truth, I've already started the second book "The Golden Fool". And right now Fitz is pondering if Kettricken is interested in this one noble from the Outislands. So now I'm thinking that relationship isn't going to last to happen. Or at least it won't survive to the end lol. I could be wrong though. But if Fitz and Kettricken are drinking in the end, that speaks of a lonely ending.

>> No.18274602

Read Ringworld

>> No.18274632

>>18274602
I've read it. It was alright but kind of dated. I enjoyed the way it examined the potential results of different reproductive strategies.

>> No.18274651

>>18272844
I'm not really into fantasy but for some reason I can't get to sleep without listening nerds on youtube explain warhammer 40k lore in detail.

>> No.18274667

I just finished the two volume, extended version of Magician, by Raymond Feist.
Anons who read the shorter version, do you know what was cut?

>> No.18274676 [SPOILER] 
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18274676

>>18274667
Forgot pic.

>> No.18274779

Post good self-pub authors.
I have read Tao Wong, Will Wight (it's shit), Glynn Steward.

>> No.18274845

A got as a gift the three body problem and its sequels. I'm 2/3 on the second book, and it sucks ass. Is the third one better? I didn't enjoy the first one either, so I'm not sure it's worth my time the third one

>> No.18274985

>>18274845
>reading the sequel to a book you didn't like
>reading more than half of a sequel to a book you didn't like when you still think it's shit
???

>> No.18275078

>>18274845
if you're not enjoying 1-2, 3 is not going to save the series for you, it's more of the same.

>> No.18275127

>>18274985
They are a gift from my wife, I am balancing her disappointment with how bored I'm getting.

>>18275078
That's what I feared

>> No.18275374
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18275374

Fuck E William Brown
Fuck Delays
Fuck Excuses
Fuck Incommunicado
Fuck Pay Walls
Fuck Pay Pigs
Fuck Being Lazy
Fuck Breaking your Word
Fuck Push backs

>> No.18275755

after quite some time i managed to get all the FB books as ebooks
if anyone is interested here they are
https://mega.nz/folder/jpJ1nSAD#IH5dNlilAeg3g06g1-GJLA

>> No.18276035

>>18274667
>>18274676
I've never read the shorter version so I'd be interested to hear about it as well. Side note: what'd you think of it? I seldom see Feist mentioned here but he was actually the first fantasy author I got into after Tolkien, back in middle school. I've been reading him for almost 20 years at this point, but I can't help but feel his books are dated to readers in the 2020s compared to the 1990s.

>> No.18276448

Fitz's biography is perfection, some people can't handle how fucked the final trilogy is, but it's without a doubt a fitting yet melancholic/depressing ending to his life

>> No.18276516

>>18276035
I've only read the first part of the trilogy, so I don't know if my opinion matters much. But from what I read, I like the concept and characters but think they're introduced way to early. Things are never properly explained or explored before something else very important gets introducef. At the end of the story, I was enjoying the Cryde story with Arutha more than Pug or Tomas' stories.

>> No.18276570

>>18274327
It's a fantasy world you weirdo

>> No.18276668

>>18276516
Well the scope of the story really gets away from just the Riftwar, despite the whole 3/4 book series being called "Riftwar Saga". There's several more books written in this same setting with many of the same characters, and the focus shifts more to Arutha and characters around him with Pug and Tomas mostly being in the background. Pug remains important in Riftwar but Feist clearly agreed with you and found Arutha way more interesting to write cause he essentially becomes the main character after Magician and for the next few series as well.

>> No.18276709

>>18274602
I honestly can't remember if i have read it or not. Also, I keep mixing it up with Gateway for some reason.

>> No.18276888

>>18275374
Based Fucker

>> No.18276941

>>18274667
I feel bad when I think of Feist, because a very good friend got me the books and they were one of the few pieces of fantasy I dropped. I just find nothing about them interesting

>> No.18276999

>>18276668
Is that so? I was only gonna read the first trilogy for the time being, but Magician bored me in a few places. Arutha getting more focus makes me more excited to read the rest. It's not that I dislike Pug or Tomas, but I liked them more when they were just a bunch of kids from the castle than the epic, super important chosen ones they became. I felt like their development was rushed in a few places, like Pug basically changing personalities every time skip and progressing way to fast as a mage after not really growing during the first part.

>> No.18277399
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18277399

>> No.18277572

Just finished Pushing Ice, by Alastair Reynolds. Not terrible, but not great either. A very easy to read, borderline inoffensive book. The main characters are mostly retarded, unidirectional, boring, and even childlike in their quarrels.
Are his other books like this also? I thought he was supposed to be one of the good science fiction authors around.

>> No.18277586

>>18275755
>1GB zip

geez man. Thanks so much for sharing, but gonna have to wait till I get home to download that.

>> No.18278269

>>18277572
>I thought he was supposed to be one of the good science fiction authors around.
That answers your question.

>> No.18278331

>>18275374
Who the fug is e william browne?

>> No.18278436

>>18276999
I definitely get where you're coming from, and I felt similarly about it as I started branching out from Feist to other authors. It's interesting seeing very familiar opinions coming from a new reader, it's hard for me to objective about a series that is so steeped in nostalgia as one of the earliest fantasy I picked up. I can't find it in me to dislike the series however cliched and corny it is.

>Arutha getting more focus makes me more excited to read the rest.
Arutha and Jimmy the Hand are gonna be the bread and butter for the last two books, mostly. Pug's still in it and still gets chapters, but Arutha and Jimmy are driving the main plot of books 3 and 4, as well as the Krondor books set after Riftwar.

>> No.18278674

>>18277572
He is a good sci fi writer in the sense that his characters are just something to hang the technologies and ideas on.

>> No.18278693

Just caught up with stormlight archive 1-4. Better than I was expecting.
Any recommendations for similar books, maybe darker fantasy?

>> No.18278718

Has anyone here read the Satyricon, The Golden Ass or La Princesse de Clèves?

Thoughts on them?

I'm listening to Leo Damrosch's lecture The Rise of the Novel and it's fairy entertaining.

>> No.18278802

>>18278693
Maybe try Shadowmarch by Tad Williams? If that doesn't do it for you, you could try to read Malazan Book of the Fallen, but it can be a bit much to dive into. Sanderson might be verbose but he reads real easy.

>> No.18278822
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18278822

Is Lovecraft's difficult to get into? How accessible is it?

>> No.18278833

Well, Chalion's Curse took an extremely abrupt turn halfway through. Man what the fuck

>> No.18278842

>>18278822
He's a fucking short story writer, my man, this is a question someone with brain damage would ask

>> No.18278871

>>18278842
I haven't read fantasy since for more than a decade, sometimes it's difficult for me to understand when a author describe magic shit on their fantasy novels

>> No.18279126

>>18278871
The short stories are self-contained, just read some of them, man. Here are some I've read and liked:
>Polaris
>Dagon
>The White Ship
>The Music of Eric Zahn
>The Other Gods
>Herbert West–Reanimator (this a series of stories, actually)
These should be a decent taster for the different kinds of stories he has, although I must admit my preferences and recommendations are heavily slanted towards his Dream Cycle.

>> No.18279153

>>18276448
I doubt anyone or anything can fuck Fitz's life harder than Burrich fucked Molly.

>> No.18279459

>>18278436
The characters aren't bad but I felt like there were too many, and with many similar names. I think some of them were unecessary, and some are presented as important only for someone more important to appear and the former character to be forgotten. I completely forgot about Kasumi's brother.

>> No.18279482

What happened to /wsffg/?

>> No.18279524

>>18272977
How? Shouldn’t old books be in stock?

>> No.18279825

>cause a dude so much pain he becomes the new sun

>> No.18279895

>>18279482
It died, to the surprise of no one. It was a pretentious general that had no reason to exist

>> No.18279959

It's official now, we living in a bladerunner timeline. funny how the 80s scare of japan taking over the world was right, but it was a delayed cultural victory

https://youtu.be/KTdeh_483xA

>> No.18279995

>>18275755
im in the process of buying them all
but thanks anyway

>> No.18280004

>>18279959
I expected our first step to the cyberpunk era to be a bit more spectacular.

>> No.18280018

>>18279959
It's either Japanese anime utopia or Chinese surveillance, social-credit hellhole.

>> No.18280031

>>18280018
not mutually exclusive

>> No.18280039

>>18280018
Thank God we'll get both in the West.

>> No.18280347

>>18278693
Just read whatever. You clearly have no standards for quality.

>> No.18280418
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18280418

I'm pretty sure that ASOIAF's last two books would be similar to Berserk's last two arcs.

TWOW = Falcon of the Millennium Empire Arc (big battle with Kushans & big battle with Others)
ADOS = Fantasia Arc (re-emergence of magic)

Basically continuing from the show's plotline including battle with WWs and Dany going nuts. Which may explain why GRRM wasn't bothered much about spoiling post-ADWD storyline to D&D.

>> No.18280613

>>18280418
Miura is dead.
Martin is next.

>> No.18280962

>>18274003
I don't want to read Conan anymore ;_;

>> No.18281095
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18281095

Any recommendations on good dark fantasy that hits in a Berserk sort of way? Asking for a friend...
>preferably something with an ending

>> No.18281141

>>18273681
servers apparently do produce a lot of co2

>> No.18281174

>>18281095
dude...

>> No.18281175

>>18274408
I think he's referring to the highly pollutive tech industry required to produce ereaders, most of which takes place overseas in China, the most environmentally destructive force in the world.

>> No.18281185

>>18281174
I miss him so much bro...

>> No.18281445

>>18274427
Robin Hobb books are bad.

>> No.18281463

>>18279153
why do women love cucking so much
every single cuckold story i know about (apart from Lolita) was written by a woman

>> No.18281529 [SPOILER]  [DELETED] 
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18281529

Holy shit the end of this book dragged. I get it was an early book in the genre and somewhat aimed towards youth but wow was it boring. I did enjoy the beginning, but I seem to like origin stories.

Also [Spoiler] it was so fucking obvious it was his own shadow from the start. It's like Ursula had just read a bunch of Jung before she wrote the book. The whole book is archetypes without even a bit of depth. [/Spoiler]

Not trying to be a whiney bitch but would not recc this unless you're like 15. Don't get memed into reading this like I did.

>> No.18281539 [DELETED] 
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18281539

Holy shit the end of this book dragged. I get it was an early book in the genre and somewhat aimed towards youth but wow was it boring. I did enjoy the beginning, but I seem to like origin stories.

[Spoiler] it was so fucking obvious it was his own shadow from the start. It's like Ursula had just read a bunch of Jung before she wrote the book. The whole book is archetypes without even a bit of depth. [/Spoiler]

Not trying to be a whiney bitch but would not recc this unless you're like 15. Don't get memed into reading this like I did.

>> No.18281553

>>18281463
Domesticated males are not attractive.

>> No.18281560
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18281560

Holy shit the end of this book dragged. I get it was an early book in the genre and somewhat aimed towards youth but wow was it boring. I did enjoy the beginning, but I seem to like origin stories.

Also it was so fucking obvious it was his own shadow from the start. It's like Ursula had just read a bunch of Jung before she wrote the book. The whole book is archetypes without even a bit of depth


Not trying to be a whiney bitch but would not recc this unless you're like 15. Don't get memed into reading this like I did.

>> No.18281561

>>18281463
It makes them feel powerful

>> No.18281577

>>18281445
Yeah they're fucking terrible reddit tier swill.

>> No.18281862

>>18281463
The greatest epic fantasy series dealing with cuckoldry as one of its central themes was written by a man.

>> No.18281872

>>18281862
Seriously, cuckoldry is so ubiquitous in fiction. so much stuff that would otherwise be good I either have to avoid when I read about it beforehand or drop when it comes up, so much paper wasted on an abhorrently shit fetish.

>> No.18282001

>>18279459
The Tsurani don't get a lot of focus in the rest of the Riftwar. If you want more Kelewan stuff I highly recommend the Daughter of the Empire trilogy that Feist co-wrote with Janny Wurts. A lot of people consider this to be the best series related to Feist's Midkemia setting. Since it was something he wrote with another author it feels different than the other books you'll have read. Most notably there's a lot more sex in it.

>> No.18282055

what is the Berserk of western fantasy?

>> No.18282081

>>18281862
gay of thrones?
wouldn't call it greatest

>> No.18282091

>>18282081
The Prince of Nothing obviously.

>> No.18282133

>>18282055
The Second Apocalypse, hands down.

>> No.18282175

>>18282055
Corum

>> No.18282220

>start Hyperion
>weird ass fucking vocabulary like gymnosperms, stratocumulus, ululation and tachyons ALL ON THE FIRST PAGE
Is this shit worth it?

>> No.18282231

>>18273478
Which book do I start with?

>> No.18282300
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18282300

You guys memed me. You can smell the cat piss and wine coming from the pages.

>> No.18282318

>>18282220
Just wait until you get to the second page where he starts to name the musical pieces he listens to. Your face will melt off from the cringe.

>> No.18282602

>>18282055
There is no western equivalent for Berserk.

>> No.18282651

>>18282055
Mistborn by Sanderson

>> No.18282654

>>18282055
Wheel of Time. :(

>> No.18282666

>>18282654
But at least that means there's hope

>> No.18282752

>>18282602
then where did Miura draw his western inspiration from?

>> No.18282766

>>18282752
It was a different time then.

>> No.18282799

>>18282220
No.

>> No.18282893

>>18279959
So this is our first step into a cyberpunk world? Ina plastered in New York City?

>> No.18283042

>>18282175
i have to read the second trilogy

>> No.18283063

do you recommend Sixteen Ways To Defend a Walled City?

>> No.18283168

>>18282231
There are short stories and one book written by the author.
go here and crtl+f Howard or Conan http://gutenberg.net.au/plusfifty-a-m.html#letterH

or here:http://freeread.com.au/@RGLibrary/RobertEHoward/RobertEHoward.html

or go here: https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/robert-e-howard/short-fiction

>> No.18283216

>>18283063
A really hard book to rate. I loved many things about it - the low fantasy (no magic, or non-human creatures, basically an alternative siege of Constantinople history), the personal account, lots of dialogue, the strategy adventure, the unreliable narrator literary device.

But many things didn’t work. The humor was cringeworthy and awkward, juvenile even. The tone in the book is meant to be smug and humorous, because our narrator Orhan thinks he’s funny, but he’s really not, and unfortunately it sounds like the writer thinks Orhan is funny, too, so I can’t even chalk it up to the character himself. The binary story of the blue skinned hating on the green skinned and vice versa (white and dark skinned, if you hadn’t guessed), felt simplistic and lacked nuance, too many happy coincidenses, too many things going wrong but no one really cares. And then the actual fact that the story clearly makes Orhan out to be an unreliable narrator to the point where he says it himself in the end.

The problem is, I didn’t buy his unreliability at all. He comes off a bit of a shit, a weasel, a coward, but what exactly is he being unreliable about? His bloated ego? He’s fairly upfront about that. He writes this account of the battle to his friend on the opposit side of the battlefield, but wouldn’t Orhan be painting a much better image of himself if he really wanted him on his side? He doesn’t, he even says he can’t be trusted with anything, though this we don’t actually see any evidence of. When I think unreliable narrator there has to be a clear difference between what the narrator believes, or narrates, and what we as readers can see is the actual state of affairs, and I just didn’t see any discrepancy there. An unreliable narrator isn’t someone who claims to be that but then isn’t really being unreliable about anything.

>> No.18283281

>>18283216
thanks for the in-depth reply

>> No.18283418

>>18283063
Not personally. I thought it was fun until I realized the misanthropy isn't a joke, and then it was just depressing that anyone could think so little of his fellow man without killing himself. Also there's nothing fantasy about it, I don't get why is classified there

>> No.18283681

>>18282055
Bakker, literally nothing compares even after a decade of hugo "winners".

>> No.18283753
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18283753

>>18283681
it hasnt been a good decade for the Hugos desu

>> No.18283791

>>18283681
Berserk was an immensely influential series that was ongoing for 30+ years. Bakker's stuff has influenced fuck all and is only a handful of books.

>> No.18283821

>>18283791
So by that metric you’re going to end up arguing Sanderson is the Miura of fantasy

>> No.18283827

>>18283791
That's because Berserk came out in the 80's, and there were a lot of edgy comics in the West too during that era.
PoN was released in 2000's when woke culture was picking up.

>> No.18283835

>>18282055
In terms of influence and legacy, probably Wheel of Time. It too was left unfinished by the untimely death of its author. I don't think there's any way for Berserk to get a continuation like WoT though. I think ultimately it will be most compared to ASoIaF, which everybody knows is going to end unfinished at this point. In terms of content though, I would say it's more like Malazan Book of the Fallen or Bakker's stuff. Something suitably grimdark and epic in scope. Malazan I think captures the aesthetic of Berserk better, but it's very dissimilar in format since it isn't nearly as tightly focused on one main character.

>> No.18283843

Alan Moore is the closet to a Western Miura except he was much more productive. He greatest works came out at the same time too.

>> No.18283869

>>18283821
Hardly. Sanderson is popular, but influential? I guess because he teaches creative writing he ought to be, but we've yet to really see a new crop of authors that draw heavy inspiration from him. Miura's influence was mostly felt outside of manga, particularly on video games. Both Dynasty Warriors and the Souls games credit his manga as an inspiration. So going by this metric, you have probably GRRM and Tolkien as the top two contenders. Tolkien though is in a league of his own. GRRM's legacy though might end up being eerily similar to Miura's.
>died without finishing his magnum opus that lasted for over 30 years (just 4 more years til ASoIaF hits 30 years old)
>had some impact on its own medium but a much bigger impact on outside media
>known for its gritty violence and sexual content which made it stand out from a lot of its contemporaries
>the most beloved and popular part of the series is the earlier chapters

>> No.18283898

>>18283869
>Two game series
And you're stretching the Dynasty Warriors one.

>> No.18283907

>>18283869
Two of Sandersons disciples already have major series. Powder mage and paper magician

>> No.18283921

Problem is Bakker was the only philosopher autist willing to write fantasy in the past decade. No other high IQ individual would resort to being associated with this particular genre fiction in it's current state.

>> No.18283964

are bakkerfags the bronies of genre fiction

>> No.18283997

oh god...
I've been reading the gender swapped version of twilight and my god...

>> No.18284094

>>18283964
Yes.

>> No.18284133

>>18283997
Which harem anime have you been reading?

>> No.18284147

>>18284133
the one with the vampires and werewomen

>> No.18284212

>>18277399
Brandon Sanderson is a hack and Stormlight Archive has no business being longer than 4 books. This man is addled with ADHD and cannot stand the thought of staying on a plot for more than 2 paragraphs without switching to another POV. Fuck you Sanderson for making me read that slop. We should have known about the recreance either by the end of book 2 or the middle of book 3.

>> No.18284255

>>18283997
The genderbent twilight?

>> No.18284459
File: 2.18 MB, 245x258, DiscordMods3.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
18284459

What are YOU trying to pass on in your story?
The story is not just for amusement to a ship by which we move our morals, and maxims, etc etc.
What is it you're trying to pass on through whatever it is you're writing?

>> No.18284461

>>18283869
I disagree.

The prevalence and hyper focus on convoluted and overwrought “magic systems” is a plague in a lot of current modern fantasy.

That directly is Sandersons fault, as he really popularised that whole thing.

I don’t mind Sanderson himself actually, he executes at a well enough level I usually enjoy his stories for what they are. My beef are with all the people who discard things like “character” and “plot” and instead all their time is focused on building out these inane magic systems.

If I listen to an author talk about their work and one of the first things out of their mouth is “magic system” it’s an immediate drop from me.

>> No.18284470

>>18284461
Sanderson does it because he insists that if magic solves a problem then it must be well-defined enough to solve it.
Everyone else copied it because Sanderson sells.

>> No.18284503
File: 881 KB, 297x277, 1621149348344.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
18284503

>>18284459
Women with mental illness.

>> No.18284507

>>>/a/222501044
>Brandon Sanderson being a hack though
hello /sffg/!

>> No.18284579

>>18284470
I agree- problem is none of his imitators can pull off his trick even halfway as well, and now the entire genre is being influenced in a negative way.

So I blame him- but other writers being shit is not his fault.

>> No.18284630
File: 91 KB, 560x560, ur_a_faget.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
18284630

>multiple people in my friend group recommend Stormlight Archive to me
>never read Sanderson before but give Way of Kings a shot
>"Wait, does this book have three prologues?"
>roughly 300 pages in, seemingly every chapter thus far has been dedicated to worldbuilding
>no idea where the overarching plot is going or if there even is one yet
>pretty basic prose
>realize this is the shortest book of the series
Am I being filtered? I really like Sanderson's worldbuilding, but it feels like I've been waiting forever just to get past introductions. Can someone who's read Sanderson say whether this series is worth devoting time to? I have a big backlog and I'm effectively forcing myself to keep reading.

>> No.18284642

>>18284630
I mean, you don't need to read it in one sitting
I sometimes drop books two or three times before I finally finish them during one fateful reading session

>> No.18284940

>>18284630
Filtered.

>> No.18284979

>>18284630
Sanderson writes incredibly bloated Marvel movies.
Do you like Capeshit? You will like Sanderson's books. Don't like it? You're wasting your time.
This analogy goes further because Sanderson likes to cross every one of his series over with every other one of his series at various points in the story. Constant crossovers were the industry standard with American comics because in order to get the whole story you had to buy other series as well as the one you're already reading. In practice it just made people stop buying comics. You want to get the whole picture in the Way of kings series? Well you better read like 3500 pages of his earlier works, otherwise half these characters make no sense.

>> No.18285058

>>18284979
Actual cancer writing method.

>> No.18285202

>>18283835
>In terms of influence and legacy, probably Wheel of Time.
I don't know about that. To me WoT simply happened to be at in the right place at the right time. It's a pretty average series otherwise that plunges into mediocrity with constant padding.

>> No.18285229

>>18283681
>hugo "winners"
how the fuck did it come to this, though? you literally have to be a black woman to win anything these days.

>> No.18285404

So is The Expanse shit, or is the show just doing a bad job adapting it?

>> No.18285449

>>18284461
>That directly is Sandersons fault, as he really popularised that whole thing.
Personally I think this is a case of mistaking correlation with causation. I've always felt that the whole rise of systems-thinking in fantasy can be mainly attributed to a generation raised with tabletop and video games as their primary source for fantasy. Sanderson just rode the coming wave first and highest.

>> No.18285475

>>18285229
Women in every aspect of society gravitate towards areas that involve gatekeeping. Reviewers and publishers got filled up with women who only wanted to gate keep their own ideologies with no regards for content or context, resulting in everyone else abandoning them. The result is what you see.

>> No.18285560
File: 19 KB, 316x400, 141.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
18285560

>>18274676
I cannot thank you enough anon. I have been trying to find the name of this book for over a year now. I could only vaguely remember the plot from when I read it as a kid and was never able to find the name through google.

>> No.18285570
File: 1.28 MB, 2500x3845, 7837f1_8ed35ea54871444f8faebfdd06338a2e_mv2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
18285570

What are some books that are similar to the the film Stalker? I have Roadside Picnic on my list and have read Annihilation. I'm currently reading Dhalgren right now and it's off to an interesting start.

>> No.18285586

Egwene is now the Amyrilin and she's tryna start shit with Rand already. Damn.

>> No.18285787

>>18282220
> start book
>whole bunch of words on the very first page
Holy shit, this is fucking embarrassing

>> No.18285811

>>18285404
Expanse is shit

>> No.18285846

>>18284470
but beyond the first books of any of his series his magic always devolves into ill-defined handwavy shit

>> No.18285861
File: 505 KB, 837x1280, lady_of_the_lake.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
18285861

I've heard that Witcher books get worse after Sword of Destiny, but holy shit. I'm half-way through Lady of the Lake and it's SO laden with bullshit.
Future PoV about Cumconnoisseur and her goddamn dreams is especially bad — not only it's a complete slog, but it makes the main story worse because their pseudo-scientific speeches
"dehumanize" main characters by showing them as a some distant historical/mythological figures rather than living humans that we've been following closely all this time.
The fact that it's the last book and slight desire to see the end of the Vilgefortz are the only things that keeps me from dropping it.

>> No.18285871

>>18285861
>Future PoV about Cumconnoisseur and her goddamn dreams is especially bad — not only it's a complete slog
true
>but it makes the main story worse because their pseudo-scientific speeches
>"dehumanize" main characters by showing them as a some distant historical/mythological figures rather than living humans that we've been following closely all this time.
who the fuck cares

>> No.18285873

>>18285871
>who the fuck cares
I mean yeah, it's easy to ignore, but then again — what's the point of the whole future PoV if it is to be ignored?

>> No.18285894

>>18285873
I don't remember that part too well, but Sapkowski is a big fan of history, he even wrote a well-researched historical fiction trilogy. Maybe it has something to do with that. He also likes to frame the story as a story within a story.

>> No.18285901

>>18285861
Main story's shit. Only worth reading if you're gonna play the Witcher 3. Otherwise a waste to read beyond Sword of Destiny.

>> No.18285925

>>18285901
It was enjoyable enough apart from Ciri and her bullshit.

>> No.18285935

>>18285894
Oh, that definitely shows. Not only with the future PoV where main story is framed as in-universe historic events, but also with Ciri's world jumps where she's put into certain historic events from real life, and with all those quotes from in-universe historians used as epigraphs.
>>18285901
That was exactly the plan — I simply wanted to play Witcher games without worrying about missing some important chunk of the story.

>> No.18286085

>>18280962
Stop being a beta.

>> No.18286275

>>18285925
What did Ciri do?

>> No.18286279

>>18286275
She's a woman.

>> No.18286449

>>18286275
She becomes a murdering psycho in literally no time at all, then reverts back to normal once the bandits she's with get killed by a basedboy bounty hunter. Also one of the biggest sluts you'll ever encounter. She goes from intriguing character on an intriguing journey to absolute fucking shit within the span of a hundred pages. After getting teleported into the desert it all goes to shit.

>> No.18286718

>>18286449
Why would the author do that.

>> No.18286767

Read the first 4 Penric books. Enjoyed the first three but Mira was the sort of book women love, cba reading the Fox one because i hate murder mysteries. I did love the religious aspect. Most sff really struggles with it, either having gods as clearly real but basically super heros and people dont have need faith or just use religion as a fedora tipping foil for a corrupt church.

>> No.18286812

>>18286718
Who knows. It's like he realized that did an oopsie with Rats and decided to just kill them off and "revert" Ciri's character back to normal.

>> No.18286937

>>18286812
What the fuck

>> No.18287085

Were to start with Feist?

>> No.18287658

>start playing Crosscode
>it's a litRPG
I've come full circle.

>> No.18287678

>>18285449
True- but I think of all that as the flood and Sanderson as the one who broke the dam.

He proved without a doubt that that style could sell on a massive level. He’s really as big as an author is going to get in the lit world without crossing into mainstream.

So while it may have been inevitable, he still gets credit (or blame) for really sharpening it and making it work and be able to sell at a high level.

>> No.18287836

>>18286767
I loved Mira, there was an anon here who used to go on about how Bujold was secretly the most horny writer in speculative fiction and that book really played into it.
Fox is more about the ecclesiastical dilemma of the demon in the fox than the murder, there's only really one suspect and it is them.
>>18287085
Empire Trilogy is his best writing (because Wurts is a much better writer who carries him through it lol) but Magician is a pretty fun read and probably best read first because it introduces the setting quite well.
My problem with Magician is that it's one of those multi-pov books where you get hooked on one pov and then have to read for like 3 hours to get another chapter with it.
>>18285570
Southern Reach is clearly a riff on the zone.

>> No.18288680

>>18279825
Definitely a high point

>> No.18288823
File: 253 KB, 1024x1886, C4CBED02-0FA9-401E-BD11-2B092B16013F.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
18288823

What’s the natty light of sffg?

>> No.18289341

>>18283418
misanthropy is never a joke

>> No.18289429

>>18287658
It's not a litRPG.

>> No.18289455
File: 24 KB, 297x475, 53205854._SY475_.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
18289455

>>18272844
Fugitive Telemetry, The Murderbot Diaries #6 - Martha Wells (2021)

Fugitive Telemetry returns to the novella format, which I prefer for this series. The previous entry, Network Effect was a novel and took the series in a more high stakes action-oriented science fiction series direction. That was enjoyable, but not what I wanted from this series if possible.

The Murderbot Diaries timeline is unclear, but it would be appear that this takes place prior to the novel, which may exist outside of the continuity.

This entry is a murder mystery that becomes more than it what it first appears. I'd be pleased if this series continued with similar entries, not necessarily murder mysteries, but rather a similar overall approach. The series continues to be a lot of fun for me. I enjoy all the characters and everything that happens. I eagerly await the future installments of the life and times of Murderbot.

Rating: 4/5

>> No.18289475

>>18274222
what about the destruction created by creating the tools used to cut down trees? they're probably bigger and use similar materials as an e-reader. do those not count?

>> No.18289519
File: 169 KB, 785x490, moebius-jodorowsky-dune.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
18289519

If you're going to eke out a living in the desert where the only thing to drink is water recycled from your own sweat and piss why wouldn't you invent something that'd freshen it up a bit, so it doesn't also taste like water that's recycled sweat and piss?
Anyway Dune really picks up once you get past 'Dune' and into 'Maud'Dib.'

>> No.18289654

>>18289519
Did that secret piss lake they were hiding finally able to turn the planet from a desert?

>> No.18290006

>>18272844
What does /sffg/ think of the Imaro series? Are they worth reading?

>> No.18290038

>>18290006
Cursory google search first impressions:
>early 80s
>sword and sorcery
>black author but from the before times
>spot a few QVEENS on the covers
Could be cool.

>> No.18290047

>>18290006
Aside from the resident Saunders promoter, there hasn't been much said about them.

>> No.18290056

>>18289475
Please don't try to reasonably argue here. It's sad to watch because it's so naive.

>> No.18290060

>>18290047
I'm just curious about it. Want to make sure it's not a waste of my time

>> No.18290134

>>18284630
I had to almost force myself to read until about halfway then couldn't stop reading. Also I kept reading the voice as "UNTIE THEM" for like a third of the book lmao.

>> No.18290234

Anyone combine their favourite series into mega ebooks so they can keep them on their ereader without cluttering it?

>> No.18290409
File: 36 KB, 333x500, 51JBOUMMdWL.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
18290409

I heard this is full of rape. Is this true?

>> No.18290862

>>18290409
Literally who

>> No.18290942
File: 106 KB, 500x400, ab.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
18290942

>>18274427
I remember reading this years ago.
Isn't this the series where the mc is cucked by his basically adoptive father.
I remember seething about the girl he was obsessed with cheating on him.

>> No.18290993

>>18290942
Yep. All Hobb knows to write is suffering porn.

>> No.18291006

>>18290942
>>18290993
What is it with western authors and cuckold.

>> No.18291036

>>18291006
The main selling point of Hobb's stuff is ntr and fujobaiting.

>> No.18291653

>>18291036
The fuck.

>> No.18291681

>>18291653
i remember the mc cucking his uncle by having sex with the uncles wife and the uncle being fine with it.
Also the mc has a gay best friend that is in love with him and that he constantly pines for.

>> No.18291705
File: 298 KB, 374x436, 1620291298791.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
18291705

>>18291681
How do people read this shit? This is the type of shit that would make me drop the entire series from the get go.

>> No.18291721

>>18291705
people like to stare into the abyss

>> No.18291733

>>18291705
I think you just need to get with the times. Having an open relationship isn't a problem anymore. And more importantly, it's the woman's decision if she wants to sleep around. Don't shame her because of it.

>> No.18291768

>>18289429
It's exactly how I feel when reading a litRPG.

>> No.18291779

>>18291768
Get better feelings then.

>> No.18291794
File: 276 KB, 507x484, noo.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
18291794

>>18291733

>> No.18291802

>>18291794
Nice performative outrage. What other tricks can you do?

>> No.18291814
File: 255 KB, 525x819, wowschizo.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
18291814

>>18291802

>> No.18291828

>>18291814
That is a very common trick. Have you any others?

>> No.18291834
File: 189 KB, 452x421, parallel.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
18291834

>>18291828

>> No.18291839

>>18291834
Very standard fare. I won't ask you for any more.

>> No.18291862
File: 45 KB, 219x231, armm.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
18291862

>>18291839

>> No.18291921

>>18291721
A stupid thing to do.

>> No.18291943

>>18291921
What else would you call being here?

>> No.18291954

>>18291943
I didn't think people here like NTR

>> No.18291992

>>18289455
Im on book 3, so far the series has been good but I definitely enjoyed the interactions in book 1 more than in book 2 and what I've seen in book 3. Good series overall.

>> No.18292001

>>18291954
I meant here being an abyss.

>> No.18292062

>>18292001
Maybe in the past. But not anymore.

>> No.18292158

>>18289455
I read 1 & 2, I need to read more Murderbot

>> No.18292190
File: 1.87 MB, 1447x1811, 1621656270720.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
18292190

He be in great fear, dis nt knowin wat mighty one may suddenly appear, wieldin tha Rin, an assailin him wit war, seekin ta cast him down an take his place. That meh n mah niggahs should wish ta cast him down an have nar one in his place be dis nt er thought dat occurs ta his mind. That meh n mah niggahs should try ta destroy tha Rin itself has dis nt yet entered into his darkest dream.

>> No.18292208

>>18286767
Fox isn't really a murder mystery. There is a murder, and it is being investigated, but the case is pretty straight forward. It mostly focuses on the nature of Demons and how they're passed on, in particular, what happens if they're passed on without an appropriate host being present.

>> No.18292242
File: 473 KB, 849x565, girl-confused.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
18292242

>>18289519
>he doesn't want to drink a girl's sweat and piss

>> No.18292248

>>18292242
That's kinda gay, not going to lie.

>> No.18292268

>>18290409
Yeah, its pretty based.

>> No.18292282

>>18272844
Why is science-fantasy novels so fucking rare.

>> No.18292285

>>18292282
Because it's shit.

>> No.18292290

teen romance, now that's my shit
MMMHMHMH

LOVE IT

>> No.18292301

>>18292282
You're probably limiting your reading habits to the west

>> No.18292303

>>18292301
Do you have some recommendations?

>> No.18292335

>>18287085
from the beginning.

>> No.18292355

>>18273227
Alright, you convinced me, I'll read it.

>> No.18292364

>>18274222
What the fuck did I just read?

>> No.18292398

>>18274222
kek

>> No.18292415

>>18274408
>>18274426
>>18289475
>>18292364
>>18292398
Don’t you care about the environment?

>> No.18292416
File: 89 KB, 723x677, 1586636386445_25dbyslwsj.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
18292416

Is Dresden Files series any good?

>> No.18292418

>>18292415
I fuck for forest.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuck_for_Forest

>> No.18292419

>>18292416
Dresden Files is really solid for at least the first 12 books, it peaks there, then starts slowing going downhill before falling off the deep end entirely with the most recent two books.

>> No.18292427

>>18292419
>12 books
That should be enough for a while. Thank you.

>> No.18292430

>>18274222
Eco-pilled.

>> No.18292442

>>18292427
You're welcome. Happy reading.

>> No.18292464

>>18292419
What happens in the last 2 books to ruin a solid 12+ series?

>> No.18292472

>>18292464
I really don't want to spoil it.

>> No.18292485

>>18292472
Just use the spoiler tags, I don't mind, besides I doubt I'd be reading it any time soon since I have a giant backlog.

>> No.18292490

>>18292485
He has made Harry too much of a gormless bitch now. I swear to god the last two whole books were just "Harry goes to X place, gets his ass beat and things 'woaw these guys are super badass' ad Infinitum."

In book 2 he threw a fucking werewolf through multiple buildings. Book 16 or whatever he is taking it up the ass from every semi-superhuman shitheel he talks to.

>> No.18292557

>>18292418
>Fuck for Forest (FFF) is a non-profit environmental organisation founded in 2004 in Norway by Leona Johansson and Tommy Hol Ellingsen. It funds itself through a website of sexually explicit videos and photographs, charging a membership fee for access. A portion of funds are donated to the cause of rescuing the world's rainforests. It is the world's first eco-porn organization and may be the only porn website specifically created to raise money for a cause. The group moved from Oslo, Norway to Berlin, Germany following the trial of its founders for having sex in public
You can't make this up.

>> No.18292563

>>18292557
This shit reads like some cyberpunk fiction.

>> No.18292569

>>18292557
They're known for having sex on-stage during a televised concert. Full penetration and cumshot. The clip was aired over and over again uncensored on Norwegian television during debates/news shows. That's how few fucks this country gives.

>> No.18292574

>>18292569
Holy fuck, I can hardly believe it. Sounds so surreal.

>> No.18292578

>>18292569
They allow pornography to be aired in national television in Norway? We can’t get that in the states.

>> No.18292583

>>18292569
>The group's founders gained notoriety when they had sex on stage during a 2004 Quart Festival concert featuring Norwegian singer Kristopher Schau and his band The Cumshots. After delivering a brief talk on the impact humans have on forests, Ellingsen asked "How far are you willing to go to save the world?" and the pair began stripping. A banner was raised on stage informing the audience of 5,000 that the couple was having sex to save the rainforest. Commenting on the event Ellingsen said, "I had a bit of a stagefright, but it disappeared as soon as I got going." Johansson added that "I got turned on by all the people."

>Ellingsen and Johansson were fined 10,000 Kroner (US$1,470) each for a public sex act, a violation of Norwegian law. Commenting on their arrest, Ellingsen said "It is ridiculous that we are prosecuted and sentenced on a moral basis at the same time as Norway is in the war against Iraq...Violence is aired on TV every day, and if this is so terrible, we could have called this performance art, and we wouldn't have been fined then?" The event promoters were not fined because they claimed they were not aware beforehand.

>The two made their court appearance dressed in children's clothes. Ellingsen dropped his trousers and showed his penis during a break in the court proceedings. Ellingsen told Nettavisen that "We would have liked to have fucked here in court as well, it’s a nice space, but we would probably be thrown in jail."

>> No.18292602

>>18292578
Burgerstan is weird about sex

>> No.18292614
File: 23 KB, 500x282, D50710E5-FF5C-4B8F-AEFE-80D67AC6F5C2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
18292614

>>18292583
>"We would have liked to have fucked here in court as well, it’s a nice space, but we would probably be thrown in jail."
Did they get away with it?

>> No.18292616

>>18292614
Yes.

>> No.18292618

>>18292602
Blame our monopolistic corporations who own the t.v networks.

>> No.18292645

>finally finished asoiaf after 2 years
>tearing through Death's End at a pace I didn't think I was capable of
Please tell me that starting either the Expanse or WoT won't feel like a step down

>> No.18292649

>>18292645
Anon, I....

>> No.18292667

>>18292616
Literally how? Isn’t that contempt of court?

>> No.18292711

You guys ever read a book that has a lot of potential only for the author to squander it with stupid bullshit.

>> No.18292720

>>18292711
Only once every few weeks

>> No.18292732

>>18292667
Norway isn't a country that gets offended by every little thing.

>> No.18292738

>>18292720
Any examples so that I can avoid them?

>> No.18292754

>>18292738
Not him, but I think you should avoid novels that deal with social problems.

>> No.18292765

>>18292711
The Expert System's Brother. I think it had a lot of potential only to fall flat by going in a different direction than what I thought. The Expert System's Champion salvaged it, though. Excellent sequel.

>> No.18292772

>>18292765
So a first poor novel that a sequel managed to salvage it? I’ll check it out.

>> No.18292789

>>18292772
The first one isn't bad, it just has a disappointing and typical revelation near the end. The sequel takes that revelation and makes it extremely interesting.

>> No.18292797

>>18292789
I’ll keep that in mind. Thanks.

>> No.18292806

>>18292711
>Some sci-fi superhero novel
>Protagonist is some female
>Always makes some low-key incestuous comments about her brother.
>This shit is building up
>Nothing ever comes out of it
>Author was too much of a little bitch to follow this plot point
fucking hell.

>> No.18292808

>>18292806
Good. Incest is bad and should never be written.

>> No.18292819

>>18292355
Enjoy. Reading it for the 1st time is such a treat.

>> No.18292832

>>18292819
You got a link?

>> No.18292851

>>18292832
https://youtu.be/uMEU2Jpj0Y4?t=5

>> No.18292856

>>18276570
There should be some semblance of realism.

>> No.18292866

>>18292851
Real funny, anon.

>> No.18292888

After getting through Lord of Chaos, I've finally reached book 7 of Wheel of Time. So far this series has been pretty great, so I'm tentatively going ahead with reading the next book. It can't be that bad, how can anyone write 4 700 paged books of pure filler? Its madness.

>> No.18292894

>>18285229
>how the fuck did it come to this, though?
Dude, take a look around /lit/. It’s extremely easy to see why fantasy and science fiction degenerate this far down. Blame the snobbish assholes for it.

>> No.18292920

>>18292888
>It can't be that bad, how can anyone write 4 700 paged books of pure filler? Its madness.
You poor sweet summer child.

>> No.18292976

>>18275755
I’ll rather buy them and support the authors.

>> No.18292991

>>18280039
>Thank God we'll get both in the West.
Speak for yourself. American. We will be spared from this hellish world.

>> No.18293013

>>18275374
William brown did nothing wrong.

>> No.18293040
File: 42 KB, 333x500, Interstellar Gunrunner A Space Opera Adventure.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
18293040

It's that time again, about to buy me some self-publish books, you guys have any recommendation?

>> No.18293056

>>18293040
Isekai assassin.
Condition Evolution.
Salvos.
Shadow sun.
Blue Core, this one has sexual content, just a warning.
He who fights with Monsters. Arcana unlocked.

>> No.18293065

>>18293056
Actually, i forgot to mention, but Blue core is actually free on royal road.

>> No.18293078

>>18281095
Acts of caine

>> No.18293080

>>18293056
>>18293065
Thanks. I'll be checking them out and buying them if I like them.

>> No.18293084

>>18293078
I started this book a month and a half ago, give or take a couple days. It felt like I was reading it forever and ever... and there were times when I thought it would never end. To be fair, there was a lot going on in my life that made reading take a back-burner, but even when I did pick this book up, it just... didn't grab me.

And in general, I think that's the problem I had overall - I just kept waiting for this book, this story, to grab me... and it never really did.

I never felt any connection with the characters, I never really cared about what happened to them... it was just... a story. A good one - well written and plotted and whatnot, I'll admit that, but from the rave reviews of some of my friends, I expected to pick this book up and be unable to put it back down until it was over. I think my expectations were... pretty high on this one.

I just think that maybe this one wasn't for me. Not a bad book, and I'm sure many will love it, but not for me.

>> No.18293093

>>18293080
Hope I was of help to you.

>> No.18293103

>>18281095
A song of ice and fire.

>> No.18293120

>>18290006
In the hands of its most talented practitioners, Sword & Sorcery can be thrilling, scintillating, and deeply ironic--which makes it all the more regrettable to see just how thoughtless and cliche depictions of race and sex tend to be in the genre. Part of what excited me about the prospect of reading this hard-to-find series was that it is very much about race, a self-aware deconstruction of one of the genre’s historic failings.

It is that--as well as a dip into African History, a fascinating (and vast) slice of the human story that is too often ignored and downplayed--especially in the face of the endless pseudo-Medieval setting that covers the fantasy genre like a fetid swamp. However, the parallels with modern, Colonial slavery and the complexities of identity of American Blacks born to that tradition are a bit too on-the-nose. I would have appreciated more of a Humanistic look at the role slavery has played in human history, as well as the way that racial identity is coded and manufactured socially--it’s a vast and important set of ideas that needs more than simply the xenophobia of Lovecraft versus the modern, post-Civil Rights view to encapsulate it.

It was pleasant--particularly after trying the Kane series--to read stories which are so intensely focused upon the hero's internal life: his decisions, thoughts, experiences, and emotions. Never was there that struggle to connect the character to the world and to the story--as so often crops up in tales of ‘impossibly muscled’ heroes who cleave their way from danger to danger by the sweat of their brow, but otherwise remain aloof.

Unfortunately, Imaro’s successes were too often the result of a sort of generic ‘strength’--an overcoming by gritting one’s teeth, and simply coming out the other side unscathed. It’s always a shame to see a writer give in to such a simplistic resolution--but it's very common, and not only in the fantasy genre. There are few things more escapist, more wish-fulfilling than the notion of achieving something simply by wanting it enough, willing your way through, and forcing your preferences on the world. If only the world would bend to us, recognize that we are right, and let us have our way--but such a fantasy makes for a poorer story.

I wished that these internal struggles felt as personal and emotional to the character as his motivations. Intense conflict is such a great place to reveal a character, to show how he differs from everyone else on the page--what unique approach he takes, in light of his experiences and personal style.

Of course, that requires the imagination and skill of a seasoned author, while this is only Saunders' preliminary outing. There's certainly a lot of room for improvement, but also a lot of strong elements that make the story engaging and readable. I'll have to give Imaro another try, down the road, and see how he progresses.

>> No.18293160

>>18278718
>Satyricon
It's always a gamble with old classics: sometimes you're utterly convinced you're going to love them, but end up merely appreciating them. Well, not "merely", but the sentiment certainly holds when it comes to The Satyricon. Yes, it's as bawdy and funny as expected, but it's also a collection of bigger and smaller surviving fragments of a longer text, which makes it difficult to judge or enjoy as a cohesive longer text. That said, glad I read it.

>The Golden Ass
this book has a very timeless atmosphere and way of writing, since it was set in past times. What it does do is conjure up the ancient Pagan faith as aspired to by the teller of the story, who began by wanting it all there and then, and having to go through a tortuous process in order to gain a greater maturity. In the end, I found the last chapter or two the best, as it described the linking with the goddess energy very clearly, so I would recommend it to anyone who wants to get the atmosphere of the ancientness of the goddess culture.

>> No.18293171

>>18278718
>La Princesse de Clèves
However, me being me, I have some issues with it. I suppose the story took several years, but the characters kept wearing the same clothing! (Okay, sometimes the main character changed the colour of her dress, but it still felt like the same dress. I'm here for the dresses!)
It may be because it was supposed to help you to tell the characters apart and I can get that because I kept confusing the husband and the uncle of the main character plus another guy was pretty similar but he disappeared pretty quickly from the story.
But the unchanged dresses were bugging me!
I'm not sure how much time has passed, it started in winter 1558, Henry II of France died in July 1559 which is like 2/3 into the story. So, it may be two years or so.
Then, some dialogues were a bit tedious, spreading over several pages, and I had to skip them cause I could not do with the pathos.

>> No.18293184

>>18281095

Good dark fantasy that's finished is hard to find man, and on this fucking site where every work of fiction is automatically shit is even harder.

but, for an unfinished series, in that it's like 7 out of the proposed 9, I've seen people mentioned The Second Apocalypse books by R. Scott Bakker as good Dark Fantasy.

>> No.18293190

>>18274779
>Glynn Steward.
Stop right there. He ain’t good.

>> No.18293194

>>18293184
>The Second Apocalypse books by R. Scott Bakker as good Dark Fantasy
It's not.

>> No.18293205

>>18281560
What would you recommend?

>> No.18293210

>>18293205
Literally anything else.

>> No.18293219

>>18280418
>ASOIAF's last two books would be similar to Berserk's last two arcs.
Wasn't the ending of ASOIAF already spoiled by the tv show?

>> No.18293227

>>18293219
Martin would have to change it once he saw the public react to it.

>> No.18293235

>>18293227
The dumb fuck can barely write his novels, you think he gives a fuck what the public wants.

>> No.18293243

>>18293235
To certain extent, yes. Guy needs money and once he sees how the public react to the intended ending. I wouldn’t be surprised if he walked back on it.

>> No.18293251

>>18293243
The guy had an entire pandemic to churn out the latest novel and he did fuck all. He doesn't give a fuck. guy is loaded. I wouldn't be surprised if he's waiting to die, just so he doesn't deal with the mess that he made.

>> No.18293259

>>18293251
A song of ice and fire is Martin’s only claim to fame. He was obscure nobody, until recently. I doubt he’s willing to throw away all the fame he managed to get, just for this.

>> No.18293278

>>18293259
>A song of ice and fire is Martin’s only claim to fame
He's got another t.v series line up about his hero series. Game of thrones is, for all intents and purpose, dead. Never before have I seen a series fall from the face of the earth, when it came to pop-culture.


>He was obscure nobody, until recently.
And I think a part of me thinks he enjoyed being obscured. He's being hounded to finish a series he doesn't have any will to finish.

>> No.18293285

>>18293278
>He's got another t.v series line up about his hero series.
Source or it’s not true. I never read any news about it.

>And I think a part of me thinks he enjoyed being obscured.
Stop projecting. Martin is enjoying the fame and fortune he’s got ever since the show started.

>> No.18293289

>>18293160
I got the ending of the Golden Ass presented in such a way that Lucius is unable to properly detail what exactly he does as a Priest of Isis (or is it initiate?) since it is a mystery cult. As such he can only hint and speak in a roundabout way. At any rate, the conversion narrative is a fairly interesting concept, but to modern readers 'religion' is a bad word. Thus it is perhaps not strange that they ignore the conversion of Robinson Crusoe and instead just focus on the aspect of the novel in which he is King of the Island.

>> No.18293296

>>18293289
>At any rate, the conversion narrative is a fairly interesting concept, but to modern readers 'religion' is a bad word.
>but to modern readers 'religion' is a bad word.
God, I hate the modern state of readers.

>> No.18293299

>>18293296
It tends to happen when a society drifts from its core values and beliefs.

>> No.18293309

>>18293278
>And I think a part of me thinks he enjoyed being obscured. He's being hounded to finish a series he doesn't have any will to finish.
This is part and parcel of GRRMs writing style. He's focused on world building and deep plots. However his style for detailed world building does not lend itself easy for a grand fantasy plotline. As such he kept introducing and introducing new POV characters ad infinitum to showcase the world he has created. I, for one, think he is more proud of the actual world instead of the overarching fantasy narrative of good vs evil in the form of the defeat of the night king. The story started as a parody perhaps on the idea of a "good king" emerging after a war and ruling justly (think LOTR and Aragon). For GRRM murdering Robb Stark in book 3 is perhaps him giving metaphorically killing Tolkien and Aragon.

>> No.18293313

>>18293309
Thank god someone else recognized this. Guy fucked himself over because of this.

>> No.18293316

>>18293309
>For GRRM murdering Robb Stark in book 3 is perhaps him giving metaphorically killing Tolkien and Aragon.
He's still mad over that?

>> No.18293323

>>18293316
If I recall correctly, the dude went on a tirade about what to do with Ork babies and Aragon's lack of tax policy. Not even knowing the fact that Orks don't have babies; they are tortured elves, transformed by evil.

>> No.18293326

>>18293316
Martin is well known for being a turbo autist. Pretty sure he was shit talking marvel in the 70’s.

>> No.18293332

New thread

>>18293331

>> No.18293339

>>18292888
I mean, even if less acknowledged, Lord of Chaos is already a slog where 5/6 main characters do nothing for the entire book, so if you're not bothered by now, it bodes well.

>> No.18293344

>>18293323
>If I recall correctly, the dude went on a tirade about what to do with Ork babies and Aragon's lack of tax policy. Not even knowing the fact that Orks don't have babies; they are tortured elves, transformed by evil.
How can one man be so petty?

>> No.18293473 [DELETED] 
File: 1.53 MB, 1200x675, ultra_dense_dildo.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
18293473

>>18274845
for whatever reason people either love the series or hate it. I couldn't put it down and am currently reading the three body problem for the 2nd time. Granted though the first book is very slow at first half. I love the scale of the series

>> No.18293483

>>18293339
Mat and Rand were immensely enjoyable to read. But I won't lie, by the end of it my patience with Egwene, Elayne and Nynaeve has all but run out

>> No.18293675

>>18293323
tolkien said somewhere that maybe they do reproduce too

>> No.18293678

>>18293332
lit is a slow board you can create thread leisurely

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