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/lit/ - Literature

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18281413 No.18281413 [Reply] [Original]

What's wrong with the society? If we accept happiness as the end goal of mankind, as the most important thing, wouldn't a society most effective as that be good?

>> No.18281483

bugman

>> No.18281493

>>18281413
I guess nothing, if you enjoy the McDonald's play pen so much you never want to leave it.

>> No.18281497

I want to play outside and dance around.

>> No.18281506

>>18281493
>McDonald's play pen
What's wrong with that?
>>18281497
to feel happy, and the society does that far more efficiently

>> No.18281512

Yeah, never understood why this book was a dystopia. Their society seems perfect desu.

>> No.18281520

>>18281512
Huxley's idea of utopia was something like Vril or some shit.

>> No.18281615

>they think the """""happiness""""" of the citizens in brave new world is even comparable to actual happiness

>> No.18281642

>>18281615
define actual happiness

>> No.18281648

>>18281413
>The society
Speech so clumsy my head hurts

>> No.18281655

>>18281642
sustainable and equitable socio-economic development;
environmental conservation;
preservation and promotion of culture; and
good governance.

>> No.18281686

>>18281642
no. anyone who isn't lying to themselves knows exactly what i mean by actual happiness. definition is not necessary and would just convolute things

>> No.18281691

>>18281655
*yawn*
miss me with that white nonsense

>> No.18281711

>>18281413
>What's wrong with the society?
Nothing. People who see this as a dystopia are evaluating it from their own expectations and experiences of "freedom" in a constitutional democracy.

>> No.18281715

>>18281655
why?

>> No.18281719

>>18281715
The nine domains of GNH are psychological well-being, health, time use, education, cultural diversity and resilience, good governance, community vitality, ecological diversity and resilience, and living standards.[12][13] Each domain is composed of subjective (survey-based) and objective indicators. The domains weigh equally but the indicators within each domain differ by weight.[14] The domains work differently depending on the person's GDP. For instance, if there are two people, one whose life is consumed with working, leaving barely any time for friends and family, while the other, though not as good in working conditions, has still enough time to spend quality time with their friends and family: according to Carol Graham, the person who spends time with family and friends ends up having a larger GNH, than the person who is just in it for work. In other words, a person is happier, or can be happier, in life when focusing on the little things.[15]

>> No.18281905

>>18281413
>>18281615
It's not exactly constant happiness that the society in the book achieved but rather constant pleasure.

>> No.18281951

I like how people assume they would be alphas and not some braindead worker (deltas i think were the workers).

>> No.18281979

>>18281413
Unironically filtered. Stop posting on this board and chug your SSRIs

>> No.18282034

>>18281493
Checked and based

>> No.18282589
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18282589

>>18281413
If you don't see any value in struggle, suffering, adversity, risk, or danger, than you literally are less than an animal. Even bugs understand the principle of sacrifice and taking risks to better their hive or colony and ensure its survival. If happiness is the end all be all for you, go crawl to a farm and eat pig slop, shithead.

>> No.18282613

Why bother being alive if all emotion and attachment has been corrupted and destroyed, all enjoyment comes from substances and trivial media? Where your purpose and life is set in rigid stone before your birth?

>> No.18282621

>>18281413

You're confusing pleasure with happiness

>> No.18282622

>>18281483
Fpbp

>> No.18282632 [DELETED] 

>>18281483
>>18281493
>>18281497
>>18281506
>>18281520
>>18281615
>>18281642
>>18281648
>>18281655
>>18281686
>>18281691
>>18281715
>>18281719
>>18281905
>>18281951
>>18281979
>>18282034
>>18282589
>>18282613
>>18282621
>>18282622

>> No.18282807

>>18281413
>If we accept happiness as the end goal of mankind
Why the fuck would you do that. Happiness is a stupid goal.

>> No.18283079

>>18282621
Most people can not seperate the two. There is simply good feeling and bad feeling. No deeper exploration of what causes it or its meaning.

>> No.18283135

>>18281413

>What's wrong with the society?

The SECOND they met a SINGLE foreign that had a culture and agency of his own they got immediately cucked and several of the highest class people were negatively affected. At least a single person was effectively made useless to said society in virtue of internal conflicts caused by the contact to ONE, SINGLE, WEAK MINDED, FOREIGNER.

BNW's Fordian society is not only defunct because of its personal values, it's also exceedingly stupid at a macroeconomical and political level as well. Ironically, not unlike the current Weimar-like Republic state of Europe.

>> No.18283513

>>18281483
fbpb

>> No.18283803

>>18281951
Epsilons

>> No.18283823

>>18283079
Then coomers are the happiest people on earth, amirite????

>> No.18283959
File: 1.76 MB, 750x1026, 1606515024021.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18283959

>>18281483
fpbp

>> No.18283968

>>18283823
Yes

>> No.18284012

>>18281413
A lot of people will die and their spirits will leave the planet to less evolved worlds. Like 70% of mankind. To stay here, the person will need to be with an energy compatible with the planet. Racists, misoginistics, fascists, all that kind of people will leave the globe.

>> No.18284022

>>18284012
Schizo

>> No.18284610

>>18282621
>>18281905
What’s the difference?

>> No.18285050

>>18283968
False. Being a slave to pleasure is misery.

>> No.18285059

>>18284012
No. Tranny faggots will be the first to go to hell.

>> No.18285087

>>18281413
Those who control access to happiness and pleasure will rule over those who don't.

>> No.18285093

>>18281413
>If we accept happiness as the end goal of mankind
You have to justify this claim. How do you know that happiness is the capital V value of humanity? How do you know that it's the most important thing?
And even if we do accept that as self-evident (we shouldn't), by what means do you define and qualify "happiness"?

>> No.18285183

>>18284610
Pleasure is like a squirt of dopamine when you see your post get sweet sweet upboats and your Reddit karma goes up. The feeling is short lived and leaves you unsatisfied, craving more hits of dopamine.
Happiness is what you feel after rising above adversity and realizing your full potential to achieve a goal. It's long lasting and fulfilling, there is no substitute.

>> No.18285201

>>18285183
In other words the main difference between Happiness and Pleasure is that, while happiness refers to a state that is internally motivated, pleasure is externally motivated.

>> No.18285203

>>18281483
literally beat me to it. this fucking book predicted them lmao

>> No.18285209

Because that's not happiness. That's pleasure and faux joy.

>> No.18285243

>>18285201
Not the anon you're replying to, but there are other distinctions. Pleasure is more fleeting, it's a temporary experience, whereas happiness is a psychological state of being. It's more consistent and yes, as you said, internally motivated.

>> No.18285550

>>18281719
there's more than one way of generating the happiness perceived by the second person, though

>> No.18285567

>>18285243
>>18285201
>>18285183
>>18284610
>>18282621
I have never met anybody who is happy

>> No.18285736

>>18281413
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TQZ-2iMUR0
hear his answer newfriend

>> No.18285780

>>18285736
great interview

>> No.18285796
File: 56 KB, 750x558, maslow-hierarchy-of-needs-happiness-pyramid.jpg.9785f39fdbde7289cd26c7a0b5723c10.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18285796

I started to read the thread and got to the point where an anon asked another to define actual happiness and they responded with saving the environment and equality and I couldn't bring myself to continue, I will after this post.

pic related is the what modern psychology says about happiness

>> No.18285856

>>18281413
Heroine addicts are happy when they're smoking heroine. Why not just get everyone hooked on heroine from an early age and subsidise their addictions? The perfect society if you will.

>> No.18286926

>>18283823
You can be happier for more than 30 seconds a day, if you try.

>> No.18286943

>>18281413
>If we accept happiness as the end goal of mankind
It isn't
>as the most important thing
Plug into the experience machine

>> No.18287178

The book on its conclusion states that happiness is not enough.

>"But the tears are necessary. Don't you remember what Othello said? 'If after every tempest came such calms, may the winds blow till they have wakened death.' There's a story one of the old Indians used to tell us, about the Girl of Mátaski. The young men who wanted to marry her had to do a morning's hoeing in her garden. It seemed easy; but there were flies and mosquitoes, magic ones. Most of the young men simply couldn't stand the biting and stinging. But the one that could–he got the girl."

>"Charming! But in civilized countries," said the Controller, "you can have girls without hoeing for them, and there aren't any flies or mosquitoes to sting you. We got rid of them all centuries ago."

>The Savage nodded, frowning. "You got rid of them. Yes, that's just like you. Getting rid of everything unpleasant instead of learning to put up with it. Whether 'tis better in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, or to take arms against a sea of troubles and by opposing end them … But you don't do either. Neither suffer nor oppose. You just abolish the slings and arrows. It's too easy."

>He was suddenly silent, thinking of his mother. In her room on the thirty-seventh floor, Linda had floated in a sea of singing lights and perfumed caresses–floated away, out of space, out of time, out of the prison of her memories, her habits, her aged and bloated body. And Tomakin, ex-Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning, Tomakin was still on holiday–on holiday from humiliation and pain, in a world where he could not hear those words, that derisive laughter, could not see that hideous face, feel those moist and flabby arms round his neck, in a beautiful world …

>"What you need," the Savage went on, "is something with tears for a change. Nothing costs enough here."

>("Twelve and a half million dollars," Henry Foster had protested when the Savage told him that. "Twelve and a half million–that's what the new Conditioning Centre cost. Not a cent less.")

>"Exposing what is mortal and unsure to all that fortune, death and danger dare, even for an eggshell. Isn't there something in that?" he asked, looking up at Mustapha Mond. "Quite apart from God–though of course God would be a reason for it. Isn't there something in living dangerously?"

>> No.18287740

Whats the point then of rising the standard of living through food, hygiene, education, etc if you can take whatever technical concoction that modifes your internal emotional state in such a way that you are happy among the worst of privations?

>> No.18287790

>>18281483
fpbp

OP you make this thread every fucking day, give it a rest

>> No.18287823
File: 2.74 MB, 1254x10000, 1621378902011.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18287823

>>18281413

>> No.18289340

>>18287823
Seems nice

>> No.18289400

>>18289340
Irredeemably cucked

>> No.18289411

>>18289340
You are beyond help

>> No.18289420

>>18287823
Wouldn't this mean that you need to constantly increase the inflow and concentration of the drugs to the point where people inevitably overdose and die?

>> No.18289509

>>18289400
>>18289411
dilate

>> No.18289716

>>18289509
seethe

>> No.18289738

>>18281686
Thank you for refusing to dignify that nonsense. More people should take this tactic and stop allowing themselves to get bogges down in unnecessary tangents and semantic word games.

>> No.18289747

>>18289716
cope

>> No.18289944

>>18289420
Maybe they've got the tech to avoid that. Some combination of not creating a tolerance and not fucking up the brain the process. It's the super-duper-future after all.

>> No.18290302

>>18289509
>>18289716
>>18289747
Terminal chan-brain

>> No.18290799
File: 1.28 MB, 1920x1080, 1618448874316.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18290799

>>18281413

>> No.18290852

>>18281413
>If we accept happiness as the end goal of mankind
its not

>> No.18292594

>>18287823
Seeing this is what inspired me to make this thread

>> No.18292672

this is a little related to OP's pic,but I'm really interested in books dealing with memetic and information war.Cna u reccomend some other than 1984,BNW,F451 and SOZ.I want something that resembles the modern day internet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C31XYgr8gp0

>> No.18292875
File: 292 KB, 800x800, lacedaimonia.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18292875

>>18281413
>If we accept happiness as the end goal of mankind
If.

>> No.18293054
File: 62 KB, 900x900, 1620004612898.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18293054

>>18281413
>If we accept happiness as the end goal of mankind
Yes, if we accept happiness as the goal of all things. Its not though.

>> No.18293321

>>18281413

It will be a deceitful society

>> No.18293768

>>18290852
>>18292875
>>18293054
What is?

>> No.18294320

You're equivocating happiness with pleasure and neither are the ends of mankind.

>> No.18294413

>>18294320
What is the end?

>> No.18294460

>>18294413
Union with God.