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/lit/ - Literature

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18318437 No.18318437 [Reply] [Original]

Any good theory recs on the Spanish civil war?

>> No.18318447

>>18318437
>a civil war where the bad side won
Same shit as in the US civil war

>> No.18318471

This thread by its mere existence killed a fascist thread >18303948

>> No.18318486

Is "Orwell in Spain" any good?

>> No.18318515

>>18318486
Why not just read Homage to Catalonia?

>> No.18318561

>>18318437
https://web.archive.org/web/20210121212408/https://www.pcint.org/04_PC/105/105_guerre-espagne-1.htm

>> No.18318593
File: 852 KB, 500x717, 93060FB1-D991-4F41-B6A7-245D539E81CE.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18318593

>retarded Marxist revolutionaries supported by NKVD who massacre clergy and anyone suspected of being “counter-revolutionary”

Yikes, clearly these guys are awful. Definitely the bad gu-

>”Fascist brainlets so universally despised they have to bring in barely sapient Muslims from Africa who rape Spanish women and girls and terrorise innocent civilians while Nazi and Italian aircraft incinerate them from above.

God both sides of this war really fucking suck. Can’t believe I’m saying this but I’m leaning toward the Republicans.

>> No.18318627
File: 46 KB, 600x860, franco.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18318627

>>18318447
>*rises from irrelevance to save spain*
cope and seethe harder, commies

>> No.18318639
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18318639

>>18318486
>>18318515
just read pic related lads

>> No.18318647

>>18318593
>Republicans win
>They do Stalinism
Nah

>> No.18318660

>>18318515
Orwell in spain is a compilation of letters + homage to catalonia

>> No.18318663

>>18318627
>relevance
ok retard

>> No.18318666

>>18318647
Yeah, probably. Like I said, both sides are awful.

>> No.18318667

>>18318447
Go back to r ddit

>> No.18318668
File: 40 KB, 324x500, Spanish Civil war.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18318668

>> No.18318670

>>18318647
>A Republic is Stalinism

>> No.18318676

>>18318667
>Reddit
>saying that the bad side won the American Civil War

>> No.18318683

>>18318666
Plenty of smart people emigrated from Spain to Europe and America, just like many people did when the Bolshevik Revolution happened.

>> No.18318687

>>18318666
There's also POUM and the anarchists

>> No.18318693

>>18318670
They were literally backed by the Soviet Union, and the NKVD was already killing their opposition, and putting themselves in charge of key political positions. Don't play stupid, you fucking retard.

>> No.18318698

>>18318670
Typically, Stalinists do set up a "Peoples' Democracy" i.g. a "Peoples' Republic" that does carry out stalinist policies such as forced collectivization, mass killings of the political opposition, and making the communist party the sole legal party - yes.

>> No.18318705

>>18318687
The CNT-FAI capitulated to the Republicans, and joined the Popular Front. Their members joined the Republican Government, and explicitly voted against its overthrew - betraying heir own principles - that's irrelevant. POUM was crushed by the NKVD so they too were irrelevant.

>> No.18318707

>>18318627
marica was suppressed homosexual with deformed penis who never fucked his wife once, manlet schizo easily manipulated by capitalists

relevant how? faggot

>> No.18318708

>>18318683
Yea, in Mexico we received waves of immigrants fleeing from Franco's dictatorship, many of them became pretty good artists and all sorts of professionals later on. I think what was wrong with Spain at that time was the authoritarian dictatorship, not the people.

>> No.18318709
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18318709

When it comes to massacres why does it always have to be “either, or”?

I seriously cannot co-sign a movement that explicitly mandates the execution and murder of innocent people. Why is it seemingly so hard to not murder civilians in war?

>> No.18318731

>>18318593
The republicans were a mixed bag. The fascists were generally pretty bad and profoundly anti-nationalist all around

>> No.18318740

Franco betrayed the fascists after the war anyways, and modern Falaganists reject hin

>> No.18318749

>>18318437
You'll get shit recommendations here, I'd recommend you just check out some post-war lit, Spaniards basically only wrote about the war for some decades til prople like Marías started to explore other themes. Start with Cercas' Soldiers of Salamis, it has a more balanced view towards the war in comparision to other books about it. If you want something that is explicitly anti-Franco you can read Requiem for a Spanish Peasant, a great and very short novel. In regards to pro-Franco I only know about poets but I haven't read them, reading Cercas might give you a starting point for that.

>> No.18318791

>>18318749
>fascists
>creating art/literature
That's a tough one. Most artists naturally lean liberal, not because of muh brainwash or whatever but because people who are creative are open to all sorts of ideas and appreciate freedom while a fascist is closed-minded and has a strict worldview. There might be exceptions.

>> No.18318836

>>18318705
Any CNT-FAI and POUM lit before capitulation and liquidation?

>> No.18318854

>>18318791
The first half of Soliders of Salamis literally centers on a fascist poet and falangist poets were very prominent and constituted one of the main branches of Spanish poetry.

>> No.18318904

>>18318791
Artists in general are narcissistic and insane and hate being told what to do and trend toward individualism and liberalism rather than fascism and gommies (which is a good thing)

>> No.18318907

>>18318854
If you read closely, that doesn't contradict what I said.

>> No.18318926

>>18318791
unless they're the ones actually the fascism. It's either they're running it, so they're all in, or they're just professionally jealous.

It's no accident that the Nazi and Italian regimes were on the aesthetic cutting edge.

>> No.18318962

>>18318926
I agree, the 'degenerate art' exhibitions that the nazis made were dope

>> No.18318997

>>18318926
Has there ever been fascist writers living in a fascist regime whose works aren't just propaganda? If so, I would love know about them.

>> No.18319023

>>18318791
Dali was Francoist, just saying

>> No.18319041

>>18318437

I'm so happy they lost (in the short term), look at all those punchable faces.

>> No.18319061

>>18318709
Well you see anon, the rise modern armaments has made it very easy to disrupt supply chains, and when civilians are part of the supply chain, they have a tendency of being disrupted

>> No.18319076

>>18319023
Yes, that's why I said most and that there were exceptions. Dalí was even the exception in his circles. Buñuel couldn't come back to Spain and García Lorca was killed and never found (like 120,000 other people). About the Surrealists, I think he was the only one who became a fascist supporter.

>> No.18319095

>>18319076

Most deliciously, he out-surrealled them all, unafraid to be Avida Dollars and accept Jesus Christ as his lord and savior. Constant sex parties at his estate. The virgin reddit bugman Breton versus the Chad Dali, indeed.

>> No.18319102

>>18318447
>digging up dead nuns and killing priests
>good guys
Literally one of the only wars the good guys did win

>> No.18319130

>>18318907
These guys weren't just exceptions, there were many of them and, again, they were one of the more prominent poetry groups of their time.

>> No.18319137
File: 65 KB, 616x477, 23424332.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18319137

>>18319095
His fixation with Hitler was particularly funny (pic rel).

>> No.18319156

>>18318593
>>18318647
>>18318693
>>18318698
The whole reason the Republicans lost the war is because Stalin (who obsessively hated Anarchists, and believed in a rigid "stage series" where capitalism would have to advance further before a revolution) refused to back them. Which you would know, if you actually read Homage to Catalonia, because Orwell spends at least a full chapter complaining about it.

>> No.18319163

>>18319102
Franco killed more Spaniards than anyone else in modern history. Also, there are still 120,000 dead bodies of disappeared people yet to be found, I wouldn't really call them "good guys".

>> No.18319782

>>18318707
>>18318447
>>18319163
Franco was miles better than commie trannies. Cope seethe and dilate. Also:
>spaniards
yikes

>> No.18319785

>>18319782
Nice try, Spaniard.

>> No.18319791

>>18318447
>Communist filth
>good guys
Communists are ALWAYS the bad guys.
God hates Communists. Nature hates Communists. The Universe hates communists. ACAPB ALL COMMUNISTS ARE PEDO BASTARDS

>> No.18319816

>>18319023
Dali was also radically lamer than someone like Masson or Artaud

>> No.18319828

>>18319816
He was also gae, which explains the fascist obsession.

>> No.18319834

>>18319828
It's ok to be fascist if you're gay because then it's just a kink

>> No.18320424

>>18319137
Funny, but today's version of Victorian moralizing about the very things that the author finds so titillating is tiresome.

>> No.18320474

>>18319791
seethe more faggot.

>> No.18320480

>>18320424
it's okay to be gay. come out already.

>> No.18320678

>>18318731
There is a reason why they call the sides republicans and nationalists, and not communists and fascists, retards. Entertainment reducing it to a commiesVsFascists angle has been a disgrace.
>>18318437
Elaborate on theory, but because I want to read something, for whom the bell tolls. Not entirely on theme, but it's something. But please elaborate on what theory means.

>> No.18320754
File: 310 KB, 220x275, 1620660069076.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18320754

>>18318447
but in Spain the good guys did win
the people fighting to protect human dignity, community and relations won

the people who wanted to destroy all forms of human solidarity and reduce man to some cog in a socialist/anarchist/trostskist/bolshevikt dream machine were the ones who lost.

>> No.18320852

>>18320480

I am, I was referring not to the obvious gay stuff (which was not the thing being moralized about), but rather to the dull politically correct tone that the author felt it necessary to adopt: "hey it's interesting that Dali was obsessed with Hitler and painted him, but to cover my bases I have to officially say Hitler Bad, using the most feminine insult possible: 'creepy' ".

>>18319834 I suppose this post is pertinent. I seem to remember that Rohm (no umlauts, can't be bothered) was gay, didn't they purge him? As for Dali himself it's been suggested he was bisexual, and maybe he fucked around with Lorca at one point, but I don't know the detailed history around this point.

>>18320754

Regrettably, they shut down Franco's tomb recently. This is why I qualified my earlier remark >>18319041 with "the short term". They're winning the long game.

>> No.18320928
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18320928

>> No.18320942
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18320942

>>18318437
An objective historian.

>> No.18321007
File: 568 KB, 1262x1440, Franco Communism Meme.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18321007

>> No.18321044

>>18319791
seethe faggot

>> No.18321278

>>18320942

No such thing.

>> No.18321307
File: 269 KB, 600x594, 02-Franco.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18321307

>>18318791
okay boomer

>> No.18321351
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18321351

>> No.18322256

bump

>> No.18322428
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18322428

>>18318627

>> No.18322656

>>18318997
Propaganda is propagating ideas. All art is propaganda.

>> No.18322877
File: 43 KB, 110x149, Pynchon.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18322877

Why was Thomas Pynchon in the Spanish Civil War?

>> No.18323552

>>18322877
That looks nothing like Pynchon. Do you have autism?

>> No.18324590

>>18320942
>objective
>cover is a communist propaganda poster

>> No.18324750

>>18318707
fuera de este foro maricón podemita

>> No.18324758

>>18324590
>t.doesn't have a clue about Stanley Payne

>> No.18324784
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18324784

>>18322656
Not quite. It's something more specific.

>> No.18324906
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18324906

Spain after the war became such a shitshow because the person that could have taken a leading role and build a strong and durable alternative to the degenerate corporate plutocracy we live in now and the moral and spiritual devastation brought by the communist regime died shortly after the war started. That is obviously Jose Antonio Primo de Rivera, leader of the Falange.
I'm sure that if he had survived and taken a role shaping the ideological foundations of post war Spain the political spectrum of every liberal democracy would look quite different nowadays.
So read an antology of his essays, articles and speeches if you can find a good one.

>> No.18325432

>>18320942
Bump

>> No.18325451
File: 50 KB, 1200x600, Pynchon.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18325451

>>18323552

Really. You don't see it?

>> No.18325512

I really like Bookchin's history, he's unapologetically political but he's also right

>> No.18325643

>>18323552
Get glasses

>> No.18326081

bump

>> No.18326217

>>18318593
you would have to be pretty fucking stupid not to side with the anarchists

>> No.18326230

>>18318791
Oh boy, is this gonna trigger some retards

>> No.18326624

bump

>> No.18326754

>>18318639
based mystery grove shill
>what is your favorite part of MWoT?
for me, its when Peter is in reconstructive surgery and considers how he wished he could relate to the American civil war soldiers going through surgery, but recognizes how weak he is in comparison. I feel like it humanizes American civil war experiences and shows a manly vulnerability of Peter's.

>> No.18326912

>>18318593
Can somebody post the free love quote from that one Spanish general?

>> No.18327527

>>18324590
>insinuates Payne is a communist
Man, you don't know a thing

>> No.18327932

>>18318447
kek good one

>> No.18327998

>>18319791
damn right, commies are scum

>> No.18328042
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18328042

>>18327998
Nothing more trad than society moving towards community

This is why we’re socialists, communists.
You’re a liberal. A lapdog to your powerful capitalist lords.

>> No.18328915

>>18318709
>Why is it seemingly so hard to not murder civilians in war?

westphalia

>> No.18329114

>>18318437
Stanley Panye is the best writer on the war

Can watch this as well its excellent
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lu5f9hp0IP4&list=PLUtqZXAZojHiDD1_j7rpZl8qmFzRIGmkx

>> No.18329137

>>18318437
stanley g payne - the collapse of the spanish republic

>> No.18329174

>>18321007
GET THE REDS, FRANCISCO!

>> No.18329176

>>18325451
Those two people look nothing alike, you simpleton.

>> No.18329183

>>18318791
>That's a tough one. Most artists naturally lean liberal, not because of muh brainwash or whatever but because people who are creative are open to all sorts of ideas and appreciate freedom while a fascist is closed-minded and has a strict worldview. There might be exceptions.
That's a Californian Yoga teacher's take on things.

>> No.18329219

>>18318437
jose ortega y gasset

>> No.18329292

>>18319076
Lorca died because of land disputes. He was basically and Andalucian aristocrat. He was close friends with fucking José Antonio Primo de Rivera.

>> No.18329446

>>18319156
This man has read Homage to Catalonia.

t. I just read it myself.