Hobbes was right about everything

[Anonymous No.18349111]

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS No.18349353]

>>18349111
You wish

[Anonymous No.18349669]

>>18349111
Care to elaborate?

[Anonymous No.18350899]

As was Calvin.

[Anonymous No.18350909]

Freud too.

[Anonymous No.18350932]

>>18349111
hobbes is boring man
reading leviathan rn, its a slog

[Anonymous No.18351255]

Actually I am the Leviathan

[Anonymous No.18351401]

>>18349111
You mean Aristotle

[Anonymous No.18351431]

[Anonymous No.18351443]

Cringe.

[Anonymous No.18351449]

>>18349111
Hobbes' view of power was based on reactive understandings and resentment.

[Anonymous No.18351847]

>>18349111
His idea of a natural state of nature being the war of all against all is just a baseless prejudice and since his all theory follows from that it is just weak.
The current understanding is that entities (individuals or organizations) do act in their own self-interest - sometimes it means that they initiate violence, but often enough - particularly in a bit more advanced societies with a division of labor (a *really* old discovery..) - *the most profitable course of action* for *all involved* is cooperation (this also means cooperation in removing the rogue actors).
You can check up Peter Leeson writings to fill these couple of centuries gap in social theory - "An-arrgh-chy: The Law and Economics of Pirate Organization" is a good and entertaining introduction.
https://www.peterleeson.com/Papers.html

[Anonymous No.18352299]

>>18351847
>>18351449
>>18351443
>>18351431
>>18351401
>>18351255
>>18350932
>>18350909
>>18350899
>>18349669
>>18349353
seethe harder faggots, modern day China is now a pure hobbesian state and it's flourishing and will bury democracy in the ash heap of history

[Anonymous No.18352327]

>>18350909
there has never been a perfect but tragic pairing

[Anonymous No.18352340]

>>18352299
>modern day China is now a pure hobbesian state
rofl, it has nothing to do with primitive Hobbes theories - it is the most advanced, carefully planned state organization in existence.

[Anonymous No.18352353]

>>18352340
>rofl, it has nothing to do with primitive Hobbes theories - it is the most advanced, carefully planned state organization in existence.
Easily one of the dumbest sentences I've read.

[Anonymous No.18352357]

>>18352340
>planning a pandemic
kek I believe you viruslab scientist

[Anonymous No.18352361]

>>18351847
can't you see you implicate a common rational ground and telos and a development from this unitive force positing an already established society and community?

[Anonymous No.18352602]

>>18352361
I did nothing of the kind, I explicitly assumed each individual's independent will of survival (while, which follows, expanding the least possible amount of energy for collecting the necessary resources)

[Anonymous No.18352612]

>the state is God now bro

[Anonymous No.18352632]

>>18352299
Any claims of Chinese victory are predicated on them solving their demographic crisis, and so far no such solution seems to be in the works.

[Anonymous No.18352650]

>>18352602
yes and then you jumped right into ''advanced societies'' skipping the whole process of formation of these societies. hobbes' point is that first pre-formative state you yourself recognized.

[Anonymous No.18352740]

>>18352650
Because advanced societies are allowed to organize themselves differently - but *even* if we accepted Hobbes appeal to nature the division of labor (and trade) still emerged organically and resulted in *obvious* benefits of cooperation (which exist even in the animal kingdom)

[Anonymous No.18352823]

>>18352740
and as i said this has nothing to do with a natural state; now we have plenty of information about how these primitive communities emerged. and no, it was not a sudden flash of shared reason and common consciousness, the sign and symbol is the genesis of human consciousness.

[Anonymous No.18352836]

>>18352740
>>18352823
i may have expressed myself equivocally here, what i want to convey is that reason did not emerged out of nowhere individually and much less universally, but the common irrational force led to it.

[Anonymous No.18352841]

[Anonymous No.18352886]

>>18350932
Just stop reading you already got filtered

[Anonymous No.18353080]

>>18352841
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3472Q6kvg0

[Anonymous No.18353808]

>>18352299
Mistaking modern age european despotism with state capitalism, typical troglodyte mistake

[Anonymous No.18354464]

>>18352340
>marxism
>not primitive
Hold up do people actually believ this?

[Anonymous No.18354475]

>>18352632
Doesn't matter. It's only a crisis because investor-niggers run out of cheap labour and they wouldn't even try moving capital out of China.

[Anonymous No.18354535]

>>18352299
OK chang

[Anonymous No.18354854]

>>18354464
Communism has collapsed in China before it happened in the Soviet Bloc - they were the world leaders in dismantling it.
You fucking monkey are the living example of the power of ideological propaganda (and the reason that they "educate" you at their "schools")- you "learned" once that "China is communist" and - for you - fucking moron - it will be "communist" till the rest of your miserable existence, even though you don't have the slightest fucking idea what "communist" even means.

[Anonymous No.18356795]

>>18351847
yes, and from this cooperation are build contracts to assure not falling in the natural state again, which eventually leads to the social contract. Hobbes explained this in Leviathan.

[Anonymous No.18356881]

>>18356795
He assumed the natural state to be undesirable because of constant wars, while peaceful cooperation within the specie is way more common and more "natural" than wars.
The social contract is nonsense, the humans were just conquered by a band of rogues - this does not mean that this occupation will last forever, or if it would happen again if only we were more vigilant - and its explanation power is on par with fairytales about wise kings and their beautiful daughters.

[Anonymous No.18356956]

>>18352632
>demographic """crisis"""
Everything that doesn't conform strictly to the Anglo-American narrative is always suffering from a "crisis"

[Anonymous No.18357309]

>>18349111
Based

[Anonymous No.18357321]

>>18357309
Are you a part of the ruling class or just enjoy being a cuck?

[Anonymous No.18357786]

>>18349111
Hobbes's theory applies as much to the self as to the state. In this respect, he is rightly regarded as a genius.

[Anonymous No.18357940]

>>18357786
Nice geniuses you have - his theory is factually incorrect anyways - the Sumerian state is the only known example of dozens where the state has arisen as a result of peaceful city guards taking control (and eventually the role of the oppressors) of the population. Everywhere else it was simply conquest (which took thousands of years mind you - without any real concentrated efforts to prevent it)

[Anonymous No.18358213]

>>18357321
>t. the basedjack in the corner

[Anonymous No.18358238]

>>18352632
they literally just switched from 2 to 3 child policy suck my balls liberalfag the chinks win again

[Anonymous No.18358261]

>>18352632
The same crisis that affects all Western states too?

[Anonymous No.18358497]

>>18358238
Doesn't matter unless their birthrate hits 2.1

>>18358261
We can handle that with immigration. China will probably open the floodgates to mass immigration as well, but they face issues with that. Being a quasi-ethnostate (with a very large Han majority) means that they will struggle with ethnic and cultural tensions which come with mass immigration.

[Anonymous No.18358517]

>>18358497
they don't struggle in xinjiang :3 enjoy your re-education mr. african worker

[Anonymous No.18358536]

>>18358517
Ah yes, they'll import workers and then put them in re-education camps. Clearly an efficient and effective way of encouraging and making use of immigration.

[Anonymous No.18358542]

>>18358536
they use xinjiang muslims as slave workers in other parts of china, so why not?

[Anonymous No.18358565]

>>18354854
This

[Anonymous No.18358574]

>>18358542
Why the hell would there be mass immigration to China if immigrants are put in camps and used for slave labor? Unless they decide to pull a Middle Passage 2.0, very few people will move to China if they make that standard practice. In the end, I expect China will liberalize culturally to make room for immigrants. If that happens, they will probably make it.

[Anonymous No.18358588]

>>18349111
Funny, I was just thinking that about Aristotle...

[Anonymous No.18358597]

[Anonymous No.18359326]

>>18358497
>We can handle that with immigration.
Immigration doesn't work. You're blind.

[Anonymous No.18359382]

>>18359326
Economically speaking, it does. And as the population declines, having consumers will become more and more valuable. (Labor too, but automation will alleviate that)

>Native culture will be lost!
Yes, but the natives themselves clearly don't care, at least in the West.

[Anonymous No.18359405]

>>18359382
>Yes, but the natives themselves clearly don't care, at least in the West
This is a problem. Immigrants consuming does not strengthen the economy if they don't contribute in other ways.

[Anonymous No.18359758]

>>18359382
>Yes, but the natives themselves clearly don't care, at least in the West.
Like I said, you're blind. Why do you think Brexit happened? Why is right-wing growing every year in Europe? You sound like you have no idea what you're talking about

[Anonymous No.18359772]

>>18359382
The immigrants don’t work idiot. The numbers are clear, immigration from the third world is a net negative.

[Anonymous No.18359807]

>>18359758
>Why is right-wing growing every year in Europe?
Give me a break. They talk a lot, but at the end of the day, Le Pen will lose again and in Germany AfD is a meme. The right wrings its hands, but the votes speak for themselves: the majority don't care.

[Anonymous No.18359943]

>>18359807
You're either blind or stupid. The fact that Le Pen is growing is the trend and it continues. They don't have to win this year or the next year. As long as the trend continues, immigration is unsustainable in the long term. You sound like a r*ddit boomer who gets all his opinions from idiots like Zeihan and never had an independent thought.

[Anonymous No.18359995]

>>18359807
>Italy 2014-2021
>Democratic Party: 40% -> 18%
>Centre-Right: 26% -> >50%
Even Fratelli d'Italia, the actually Rightist party, is bigger than it by now.

[Anonymous No.18360011]

>>18359943
It's not 2015 anymore anon. Look, the French elections are on the horizon, and I'll let you know what will happen. Macron will run against Le Pen in the second round, everyone will throw their support behind Macron, and he will win. European people just don't care about being replaced. Their voting patterns prove it.

>>18359995
Outside of Germany and France, politics in EU member states are irrelevant. Hell, Greece had a very powerful far right party for a while, nothing changed.

[Anonymous No.18360024]

>>18360011
>Outside of Germany and France, politics in EU member states are irrelevant.
The EU is shaking and there's a growing divide between East (Poland, Hungary) and West. You're oblivious to changes unless they're confirmed by your favorite analysts.

[Anonymous No.18360042]

>>18360024
That's just two member states. The EU as a whole is heading down the path of federalization and becoming one country. If the refugee crisis of 2015-16 didn't lead to it collapsing, nothing will.

>You're oblivious to changes unless they're confirmed by your favorite analysts.
I certainly have my biases, but I feel like you are blind to the unstoppable trends, like EU unification and mass immigration into Europe.

[Anonymous No.18360048]

>>18360042
>The EU as a whole is heading down the path of federalization and becoming one country.
Kek

[Anonymous No.18360074]

>>18360048
Look at the trends. Germany is pushing for it, and the rest of the EU will do as they are told. Even France is beginning to agree with more and more EU military integration.

[Anonymous No.18360540]

>>18359382
>Economically speaking, it does
Economics is nonsense not science

[Anonymous No.18360681]

>>18360540
any grad school econ program is basically a statistics program