/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.18349911]

>The purpose of surrogate activity is to gain the sense of fulfillment
>For leftist, activism is surrogate activity
>Therefore they never get satisfaction by what they did. They always demand something new after gained what they just asked for. Always in constant artificial needs.

If ya want lefty criticism, don’t look for Ben Shapiro or Jordan Peterson or the others retard conservatives who hypocrites. Always claming to maintain tradition, but defending the existence of industrial society (a product of the modern world).

[Anonymous No.18349926]

>>18349911
Unironically everyone should read Ted's descriptions of leftists.

[Anonymous No.18349939]

>>18349926
They can read it in The Industrial Society and It’s Future.

>Short
>Well Articulated
>Great ideas

Very good example of what actually manifesto should be.

[Anonymous No.18349962]

>>18349911
I just don't understand what Ted's problem with engaging in surrogate activities is, exactly.
Engaging in the power process is why people do it, since they don't get enough of it in modern society without doing so, but what's wrong with that? Is it so bad to read philosophy in your free time in a society where it's difficult to starve to death? So what if it's a surrogate activity?
I am willing to accept the existence of surrogate activities, but I don't understand why they're necessarily a bad thing. Surely nobody is worse off for understanding marine biology. Now, the complex pure math that Ted studied, sure, that's mindless and maddening. But stamp collecting? That's just having a tiny art collection.

[Anonymous No.18349977]

>>18349962
Why do you midwits always believe articulation to be a simple matter of 'thing = bad'?

[Anonymous No.18349979]

>>18349911
>surrogate activity
In place of what?

[Anonymous No.18350022]

>>18349977
The thing is that he almost certainly means it in a derogatory sense, as he specifically outlines it as being less satisfactory as genuine activities.
It's also pretty vague the way he describes it -- on the one hand, he lists certain activities as surrogate activities, but on the other hand, the way he defines a surrogate activity is dependent on the subjective judgment of an individual, such that the examples he lists would only really be surrogate activities to him specifically.

[Anonymous No.18350092]

>>18349926
unironically read beyond the 1st chapter, retard-kun. my impression is there are a lot of poltards who just read that part and think ted is agrees with them on everything. after that part, he immediatly says that cuckservatives are retards, for thinking "free market" and "growth" are compatible with a traditional society

[Anonymous No.18350186]

>>18349911
>NOOO YOU CAN'T READ BOOKS OR WORK OUT IN YOUR FREE TIMERRINOO
>YOU SHOULD ALWAYS BE PLOTTING THE DOWNFALL OF SOCIETY

[Anonymous No.18350194]

>>18349979
chop wood carry water

[Anonymous No.18350195]

>>18350092
>after that part, he immediatly says that cuckservatives are retards, for thinking "free market" and "growth" are compatible with a traditional society
That's what "/pol/tards" believe as well. What is your point?

[Anonymous No.18350204]

>>18350195
try saying anything bad about capitalism on pol, see what happens

[Anonymous No.18350219]

consider the following: ted kaczynski has such a following on this site because his ideas are essentialy a critique of capitalism but you won't be called a leftist for bringing them up

[Anonymous No.18350230]

>>18350204
well, americans arent real humans, so their "opinions" dont count

[Anonymous No.18350233]

>>18350204
If you do it without proposing a fascist or non-Jewish alternative you get called a commie, because most people who sit around criticizing capitalism are commies

[Anonymous No.18350243]

>>18350194
So only monkey business?
Nah fuck that I like internet.

[Anonymous No.18350246]

>>18350219
duh, communist/marxist leftism is just as bad as capitalism.
of course capitalism is to be rejected, but so should leftism

[Anonymous No.18350247]

Uncle ted seeing the root of the problem is industrial society. Not the ideology (be it capitalism or socialism). Human has dependency on tech not ideology.

[Anonymous No.18350253]

>>18350219
>his ideas are essentialy a critique of capitalism
If you equate capitalism with technological development, then yes. But because communist society might be equally as technologically developed, it is a wider critique than just capitalism. Ted's critique applies to techno-communism just as much, if not more so.

[Anonymous No.18350277]

>>18349962
Temporarily placates you so you're not outraged by what society is doing.

That's the only problem he has with it, really.

[Anonymous No.18350280]

>>18350247
>[x] seeing the root of the problem is [y].
Wow, fucking genius.

[Anonymous No.18350290]

>>18350092
Why do you assume what I think?

[Anonymous No.18350292]

>>18350280
Unironically yes.

[Anonymous No.18350334]

>>18350290
I begin from the assumption that you are wrong and I am right about everything

[Anonymous No.18350340]

>>18350334
>Post hoc fallacy

[Anonymous No.18350370]

>>18350340
feeling don't care about your "facts"

[Anonymous No.18350413]

>>18350370
Based

[Anonymous No.18350431]

>>18350413
>Cringe nazi that deserve nothing but death punch in the face.

Fuck off fascist !

[Anonymous No.18350482]

>>18349926
He was right about the oversocialised and the feelings of inferiority
>>18349962
I'd rather live off the land/have food as my main goal in life while preserving my autonomy, than be enslaved by the rat race and compensated only with some hollow surrogate activity.

[Anonymous No.18350486]

>>18350431
Feelings don't care about your "facts", cringe egalitarian

[Anonymous No.18350531]

>>18350482
But not everyone could live the life in the wild environment, anon. A group of week people like people with disabilities could not survive the condition.

The modern civilization giving certain protection to the oppressed and week people.

[Anonymous No.18350541]

>>18350531
I imagine Ted would say that the price is too much to pay to keep such people alive.

[Anonymous No.18350572]

>>18350531
STOP POSTING IN THREADS ARGUING ABOUT BOOKS YOU HAVE NEVER READ , nigger.

He literally addresses the dysgenic development industrial society support. Downies, people who suffer from diabetes, and all other dysgenics not surviving is a good thing for humanity

[Anonymous No.18350659]

>>18350572
I HAD READ TILL THE LAST PAGE AND IT IS PURELY ABLEISTIC BASED ON DARWINIAN “SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST” PARADIGM.

WHEN WEAK PEOPLE CANT SURVIVE IN THE EXTREME ENVIRONMENT (PRIMITIVE TRIBAL SOCIETY), IT IS SOOOOOO INHUMAN YOU ECOFASCIST !!!!!!

[Anonymous No.18350672]

>>18350659
What a repulsive little creep you are.

[Anonymous No.18350683]

>>18350672
I just spoke up my mind, mate. Being vocal toward oppresive ideology is just my routine as online woke activist.

[Anonymous No.18350941]

>>18350659
you retard realize that with the onset of caring for the failed dysgenic humans not only is humanity threatened to become weak and frail due to their procreation but also it is the environment for industrial society to reemerge again.
Needing all the related cohesion and medical discipline and products to care for subhumans will bring back what ‘has been destroyed’.
Sorry to tell you, retard but if you do not see this you are probably just a coping (unironic) retard yourself.

[Anonymous No.18350974]

>>18350941
>Woah seriously social darwinism is the best concept. The weak should get destroyed by the strong. Wait till the stronger entities destroy my pathetic existence and my stance would totally change

[Anonymous No.18350984]

>>18350941
But the industrial technological society will live forever and most of the people are too lazy to put ted’s ideas into praxis.

So yeah. Good luck with your autistic agitation and echo chamber.

The technological society is getting stronger by the popularity of AI. Mankind is really dependent of it nowadays. Deal with it.

[Anonymous No.18351044]

>>18350974
>Wait till the stronger entities destroy my pathetic existence and my stance would totally change
you never read Ted. Please stop posting itt. Your posts are off-topic.
>18350984
weak, very weak bait.

[Anonymous No.18351096]

Looking at the historic craziness of the late 60's and assuming it represents "Ur-Leftism" is a mistake in my opinion, the New Left was a product of a very specific and peculiar post-WW2 environment. I guess I can't blame him for assuming the student movement was going to be a more permanent political force but he overestimated their longevity

[Anonymous No.18351115]

>>18349911
>Therefore they never get satisfaction by what they did. They always demand something new after gained what they just asked for. Always in constant artificial needs.
I think they rebel because things are actually bad and even if they are made good, they are in constant danger of backsliding to bad again.

[Anonymous No.18351130]

>>18351096
He focused the leftist movement in the sense of political identity like feminism which always has been in the circle of surrogate activity.

[Anonymous No.18351133]

>>18351115
Care to eleborate? Give one example so i can get your point.

[Anonymous No.18351330]

>>18351133
Compare the Vietnam War to our current wars in Afghanistan and Iraq and also proxy wars in Central/South America to Syria and Yemen.

[Anonymous No.18351517]

>>18349926
Everyone should read Ted, period. His Criticisms of Conservatives are also apt and should be analyzed.

[Anonymous No.18351530]

>>18350219
>consider the following: ted kaczynski has such a following on this site because his ideas are essentialy a critique of capitalism but you won't be called a leftist for bringing them up
Duh? Marxism and other leftism has a lot of retarded baggage to it, it is only rational for one to look for proper critiques of Capitalism without it.

[Anonymous No.18352469]

>>18349911
Is making this same thread every single time all over and over and over again a surrogate activity?

[Anonymous No.18352751]

>>18349911
>>18349926
hes on point

[Anonymous No.18352780]

>>18352469
Why yes, cause i am always in constant needs of intelectual validation and just keep bitching and bitching Over and Over again, how could you tell ?

[Anonymous No.18352975]

>>18349911
What's the difference between a surrogate activity and art / the enjoyment of art?

[Anonymous No.18352985]

Kaczynski is right about everything and he's the only /lit/ "meme" that stood the test of time

[Anonymous No.18353032]

can't you "people" just read jordan peterson or something if your objective is to shit on leftists?

[Anonymous No.18353067]

>>18352975
Here’s the thing, bud. Uncle Ted says that every activity for artificial fulfillment goals (say it for the sake of art enjoyment for example) is surrogate activity.

Enjoyment of art isn’t part of survival stuff.

[Anonymous No.18353068]

Kaczynski's depiction of liberals (which he calls "leftists") as adventurists who only pretend to care about the plight of minorities while ignoring the material reality is a criticism of liberalism which originates from the far left. Kaczynski was influenced by left wing figures like Ellul, so it's not surprising.
Fascist countries in the 20th century made huge infrastructure projects, huge agricultural developments, built new factories, all of which contradict Kaczynski's primitive beliefs.
Everyone in this thread is retarded and couldn't even read past the first page of a simple manifesto.

[Anonymous No.18353078]

>>18353067
Why does distinguishing activities between surrogate and "essential" or whatever matter then?

[Anonymous No.18353102]

Why do we keep having threads about surrogate activities

[Anonymous No.18353110]

>>18353102
making these threads is op's surrogate activity

[Anonymous No.18353114]

>>18350204
Nu-nu-/pol/ is a bunch of boomer republicans who think they've found some kind of underground bunker to hide in and make plans. It wasnt always like this.

[Anonymous No.18353132]

>>18353078
Well, dichotomy sometimes is needed to see what’s important and what’s the opposite.

Every unimportant activity must be avoided
B is unimportant activity
Therefore B must be avoided.

This is simple example of deduction logic. According to Uncle Ted, when we have figured out what surrogate activity is, we must avoid it and do something important; sharing the awareness about how bad industrial society is for example.

This is my interpretation toward his ideas. Anyone can critize my poin of view if they want to.

[Anonymous No.18353138]

>>18353132
>Every unimportant activity must be avoided
Why? Sounds like a neurotic attitude designed to foster an even deeper neurosis.

[Anonymous No.18353145]

>>18353132
>Every unimportant activity must be avoided
gay

[Anonymous No.18353151]

>>18353068
>Kaczynski was influenced by left wing figures
i thought he was mainly influenced by partaking in the MK Ultra programme during university where he had to write down his beliefs was confronted with harsh criticism as part of some study

this is likely what left the biggest mark on him as not long after getting his degree and some time of teaching he decided to leave university for good
certainly his growing alienation to his peers also played a part in this

[Anonymous No.18353170]

>>18353151
Ted was never part of MK Ultra. That experiment wasn't part of any CIA operation. There are even prison letters from Ted where he admits that it had nothing to do with MK Ultra. Where does this meme come from?

[Anonymous No.18353177]

>>18353151
I see you watched the netflix documentary

[Anonymous No.18353180]

>>18353151
Why do people keep harping on the study he took part in while in college? It was proto-interrogation techniques. There is only a few snippets of audio that's ever been declassified and it's just the interrogator insulting Ted. That's it.

There is zero evidence otherwise of any other nefarious activity going on. Keep in mind, hundreds of people took part in the study.

[Anonymous No.18353191]

>>18353102
Because it's one of the stupidest ideas of his and the easiest to dismantle.

[Anonymous No.18353200]

>>18353151
>he still believes the fake news lying media attempts to smear uncle ted(pbuh)

[Anonymous No.18353214]

>>18349911
Jordan Peterson isn’t, and has never claimed to be, a conservative.

[Anonymous No.18353236]

He most likely emphasized the surrogate activities to explain why scientists and technophiles do what they do, which is not interest in any help to humanity but to fulfill their psychological needs

[Anonymous No.18353288]

>>18353236
It's a stupid term regardless of how he intended it because it can be applied to just about everything that doesn't follow an autistically narrow set of survival activities. Even a culinary chef who spends his time testing different dessert recipes is basically just wasting his life away on a surrogate activity according to him, even though that chef brings a huge amount of pleasure and happiness to others.

[Anonymous No.18353299]

>>18353288
>can be applied to just about everything that doesn't follow an autistically narrow set of survival activities.
That is literally the point, hence why Kaczynski's philosophy isn't worth embracing.

[Anonymous No.18353342]

>>18353288
You don't understand anything.
The chef wouldn't find happiness in something as stupid as "testing different dessert recipes" if he could spend that time doing serious creative work for his own survival. It's especially because he has the abnormal free time he "finds fulfillment" in that activity, but it's not the real thing. Working on his survival needs will bring him REAL fulfillment, working on trivial recipes will never have the same effect because he is still dependent on someone else/society.

[Anonymous No.18353396]

>>18353342
>It's especially because he has the abnormal free time he "finds fulfillment" in that activity, but it's not the real thing.
From a neurological standpoint, there is no difference at all between these activities. You are just separating the two because you hold a value-based bias against what you call "surrogate." The chef may indeed only choose to be a chef because he has no need to be preoccupied with his own survival, but that does not mean that somehow his work is less important, or his enjoyment "less real."

There should be a balance. There is very obviously a need for "surrogate" activities in the world, and it is usually the best survivalists who demand to have such specialists as the chef, because such specialists increase the pleasure of existence. To live only for survival is a very poor state of existence. At the same time, if there is no pressure from your environment, then there is less innovation and creativity, so civilization should not organize itself completely around the propagation of pleasure-producing activities.

[Anonymous No.18353643]

>>18353114
Unironically this, people started introducing it to Facebook grandmas and it spread like wildfire from there. That is why even the simplest bait can get 20+ replies there.

[Anonymous No.18354115]

>>18353068
>Kaczynski's depiction of liberals (which he calls "leftists") as adventurists who only pretend to care about the plight of minorities while ignoring the material reality is a criticism of liberalism which originates from the far left. Kaczynski was influenced by left wing figures like Ellul, so it's not surprising.
Nothing exists in a vacuum, there's obviously different intentions between Ted and Ellul.
>Fascist countries in the 20th century made huge infrastructure projects, huge agricultural developments, built new factories, all of which contradict Kaczynski's primitive beliefs.
Ted already explained how fascists are leftists you cretin.

[Anonymous No.18354146]

>>18353396
>From a neurological standpoint, there is no difference at all between these activities. You are just separating the two because you hold a value-based bias against what you call "surrogate." The chef may indeed only choose to be a chef because he has no need to be preoccupied with his own survival, but that does not mean that somehow his work is less important, or his enjoyment "less real."

You think there's a neurological similarity between somebody fighting for survival (huge degree of uncertainty, no safety net) vs tasting dessert recipes in a cushy chef job (safety net set up, sense of security and certainty in tact)?

[Anonymous No.18354191]

Ted was a depressed loser that should have found God rather than uselessly waging War against the World in anger. He was a STEM bugman at heart unfortunately.

[Anonymous No.18354236]

>>18353032
It's afraid

[Anonymous No.18354281]

It amazes me how such a genuinely intelligent person like Ted could express such trite and ignorant opinions (like Mathematics being a waste of time).

[Anonymous No.18354286]

>>18354115
>Ted already explained how fascists are leftists
Literally wrong, but even the average tedtard doesn't seem to understand this fact (there is a shelf thread RIGHT NOW which has Kaczynski wedged between Turner Diaries and Mein Kampf)

[Anonymous No.18354292]

>>18350659
we know disabled people where still helped and treated by their tribe in prehistoric times, if you want a leftist angle for anarcho primitivism, think about how only in large scale civilisation can mass and systematic descrimination and exploitation take place

[Anonymous No.18354305]

>>18353191
you can argue wheter or not surrogate activity are bad, but the concept itself is self evident the moment you acept an evolutionnary frame work

[Anonymous No.18354313]

> AntiTech Revolution Ch 4, Section 30
> It is well known that in the United States (and probably in most other countries) law-enforcement and intelligence agencies have long made use of wire-tapping-often illegally-to keep track of the plans and activities of politically suspect groups. But nowadays old-fashioned tapping of tele- phone lines is becoming obsolete and far more sophisticated eavesdropping techniques are available,184 along with such tools for spying as ubiquitous surveillance cameras, face-recognition technology, hummingbird-sized (perhaps even insect-sized) drones, and mind-reading machines.
What exactly did kaczynski mean by this? Was he a paranoid schizo all along

[Anonymous No.18354325]

>>18354313
The first two of those things already exist and the other two are likely things which are going to exist in the future, nothing schizo about it

[Anonymous No.18354326]

>>18349911
its good but it wasnt much use to me. the rest of the manifesto was generally more insightful. ive always had leftist tendencies and almost had a leftist nature despite the fact that i now have centrist beliefs, but i still identify with a lot of what he criticized leftists for. such as a lack of interest in competition. but i mean like, people behave as if you can remove the revolutionary part of the manifesto and take only the criticism for what it is, but he makes those criticisms to support his motive for revolution. and i dont think you can apply it to industrial living too well. i mean what the fuck am i supposed to do if i'm not by the revolution then, seek out competition? no thanks. no reason to. i would only compete if i need to.

[Anonymous No.18354332]

>>18353214
Virtually every position he holds is conservative.

[Anonymous No.18354335]

>>18354146
I think that the fulfillment factor i.e. dopamine production derived from either can't be distinguished at a neurological level, besides in perhaps intensity. But intensity is not what you are talking about when you say "not the real thing."

>>18354305
Our brains have evolved to be far more malleable than the brains of other species. Of course, it is true that we can't completely cut ourselves off from our "primitive" lifestyle (we still need sun, exercise, etc.) but it is also true that we can train ourselves to live comfortably alongside any technology our brains produce and refine.

[Anonymous No.18354338]

the same idiots who think ted isn't just a doomer leftist are the same people who think spengler is a "traditionalist" lol.

[Anonymous No.18354345]

the revolution is LITERALLY a surrogate activity.

[Anonymous No.18355466]

>>18349962
>I just don't understand
You answered your own question. Don't just read whatever excerpt OP posted. Go read the whole thing its only 30ish pages and if you feel like it read his other books where he elaborates even further what he means.

[Anonymous No.18356581]

>>18354313
he is literally right about everything.

https://rd.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-030-42504-3_15#Abs1

[Anonymous No.18356584]

>>18354313
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87P04Vam2wQ

[Anonymous No.18356596]

>>18354313
>Our analysis of the literature shows that eye tracking data may implicitly contain information about a user’s
>biometric identity, gender, age, ethnicity, body weight, personality traits, drug consumption habits, emotional state,
>skills and abilities, fears, interests, and sexual preferences. Certain eye tracking measures may even reveal >specific cognitive processes and can be used to diagnose various physical and mental health conditions.

[Anonymous No.18356619]

>>18353068
>Kaczynski's depiction of liberals (which he calls "leftists")
Bogus distinction that american leftists deploy to deflect any criticism and to pretend the contradictions between their thought and actions and their effects in the real world aren't actually attributable to them but to a subset of dishonest individuals (the "liberals", aka the fake left).

[Anonymous No.18356861]

>>18353068
>Kaczynski's depiction of liberals (which he calls "leftists")
When he says "leftism" he means a psychological type, nothing to do with politics. It says right there in the manifesto, did you even read it?

[Anonymous No.18358187]

>>18350194
very based and zenpilled
also 9/11