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/lit/ - Literature


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18363232 No.18363232 [Reply] [Original]

>"In 2008, roughly 10 percent of men under the age of 20 reported having no sex in the previous 12 months, slightly more than the number of women."

>"In the last 10 years that number has hit 28 percent for men under 30 - a rise of close to triple - while for women under 30 that rise was less than 10 percent."

https://archive.is/YU501

So are we just going to pretend that this isn't a subject worthy of literary attention, or what?

The only recent stories I can think of related to this are Cat Person and The Feminist.

>> No.18363241

It's a boring subject that comes down to refinement of social technology to allow Chad even greater sexual presence
What can you do about it

>> No.18363256

>>18363232
People are less sociable as a result of technological development, resulting in wider and more attractive options for women, and more men simply stuck inside.

>> No.18363265

>>18363256
Any literature about this?

>> No.18363301

>>18363232
Of course this is a very important trend, and should be very concerning to any intelligent adult who is at all concerned with the long-term welfare of society.

That doesn't mean it will automatically lend itself to literary treatment, though. Some things just don't make good stories. I think the main trouble is, it's a very widespread, general phenomenon, rather than a personal one; and art deals best with individual stories. "One death is a tragedy; a million deaths are a statistic."

You see Hollywood having the same problem whenever they try to make Environmental Catastrophe movies. These movies are always terrible, because to make a good story, you have to focus on individuals, but the story is not in essence about any one individual. Nor can you just tell one individual story and say, *this is what causes the wider phenomenon*, because it's not the case. Sure, you can tell individual stories of people *caught up in* the wider phenomenon, but then you have a disconnect between the overall theme, and what is supposedly generating the emotion. It never works.

>> No.18363308

>>18363265
My diary desu

>> No.18363330

>>18363301
Good point. I've noticed that art which tries to portray a "typical" character often falls flat and seems "cringeworthy" or out-of-touch. Still, I still find it surprising that not a single person on 4chan has published their own story about inceldom anonymously on here. But maybe you're right in that doing so would just be another drop in the ocean of incel-related content.

>> No.18363331

>>18363265
jonathan haidt?

>>18363232
btw tinder was introduced during that time.U really think feminism endorsment by women wassome sort of an accident??Think again.They did that because they were sick and tired of having sex with genetic subhuman men and wished to liberate themselves from that.Moreover the statistic "28% virgin men and 18% virgin women"is an absolute lie mostly because men hate to be seen as virgin losers and women hate to be slut shamed.A more realistic and still a conservative statistic back in 2017 would be 40% virgin men and 10% virgin women.That number today can very easily be 65% virgin men and 15% virgin women thx to covid and an increased dependence on social media and the internet in general.

>> No.18363335

>>18363308
Based

>> No.18363340

>>18363301
Al Gore's pseud movie did really well

>> No.18363350

>>18363330
>I still find it surprising that not a single person on 4chan has published their own story about inceldom anonymously on here
What the fuck are you talking about? There are hundreds of incel memoirs.

>> No.18363353

>>18363265
there's an old movie named Marty.Although a bit clichet,it does show what ugly people go through in life all because they couldn't win the genetic lottery.

>> No.18363359

>>18363331
His 'Coddling' book?

>> No.18363367

>>18363330
There's nothing to write about. You could maybe write a good short story. A novel would be just full of nothing. It wouldn't even have a semblance of a plot arc like Welcome to NHK. It's just the same shit day in, day out. No one wants to read that let alone live it.

>> No.18363369

>>18363350
Published in the past decade? Also examples please?

I can think of ones like Mars, but they were published decades ago.

>> No.18363386

>>18363369
/r9k/ and /adv/

>> No.18363390

>>18363232
What more is there to say that hasn't been said? Alienation, social media and online dating, social engineering, entitled delusional women, Houellebecq, and so on, we've run this lap a thousand times by now.

If there's anything I'm still puzzled by is the fact that people still don't understand why average young men are not interested in working their asses off and humiliating themselves for below average women in a society that never misses an opportunity to shit on them while also taking them for granted. It's the sheer entitlement of expecting everything in exchange for nothing that I don't understand : how does the worldview of these people not collapse under the weight of its own patent absurdity?

>> No.18363403

>>18363359
yes,but that's just a small start.U can also see the late brian gilmartin's enforcement on traditional virtues like monogamy and marriage.

>> No.18363424

>>18363390
Couldn't the same have been said by working class men who worked for a pittance in previous eras, even being denied the vote and so on? I find it an unconvincing that men today are especially disadvantaged or ill-treated.

>> No.18363426
File: 136 KB, 820x791, 34589345893.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
18363426

>>18363232
I'm doing my part.

>> No.18363435

>>18363232
I last had sex about 3 weeks ago

>> No.18363437
File: 5 KB, 353x500, How To Be Alone Forever.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
18363437

>>18363369
This one is my favourite, since it's very positive and funny. It's also disguised as a practical guide, making it more engaging than just some fag's autistic ramblings.

>> No.18363438

>>18363424
Stop being dishonest.

>> No.18363450

>>18363390
>how does the worldview of these people not collapse under the weight of its own patent absurdity?
It's in the process of happening.

>> No.18363456

>>18363424
Where is "the vote" on Maslow's hierarchy of needs? They didn't even care about voting. Plus there's no point pretending industrial factory workers were that well off either. I'd have rather been a serf, so I'd at least have my own house, family and farm. The industrial revolution has really just been a shitfest for men in continually differing ways.

>> No.18363471

>>18363330
Whoever is going to write about it better not be some cringy incel writing some pitiful story about their sad, lonely, hate-filled life. Any "theory" focusing on social emasculation is just a desperate act of blame shifting and a call for affirmation from other similarly delusional incels.

>> No.18363475
File: 55 KB, 1280x720, 1621045554177.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
18363475

The rise in virgindom coincides with the rise of gayming, capeshit, extreme obesity, superficial political virtue-signaling, and other forms of degeneracy which outright purges many men from the pool of fuckable people.

So, why always bring up "muh Chad and Stacy" and nothing else?

The only people who have legitimate reason to be angry are ethnic men. All women prefer white men. Therefore it is very hard to get laid as a middle eastern/pajeet manlet.

But the majority of incels chose to be incel - - in the empirical sense: it might not be voluntarily but it is a result of their choices.

On the flipside, the quality of women is also declining, so many men might not even bother to date just any stupid bitch.

>> No.18363480

>>18363256
Women are also becoming more educated and socially mobile, thus the tolerance for Neets and even average wage guys has dropped to nil

>> No.18363495

>>18363456
yes that is somewhat true but the elephant in the room is something else.The main problem is men can't accept the crooked nature of women and come to terms with it.Women are naturally more sneaky,treacherous and manipulative and moreover they want to have sex with the top dog ,alpha chad with ubermensch genes to ensure that their genes survive by getting associated with the chad's genes.Women are way more pickier than men and will do whatever it takes to eliminate untermenschen genes from the gene pool when given free choice.

>> No.18363497

>>18363437
Loved this. Where did you find out about it?

It's a perfect example of English humour imo.

>> No.18363498
File: 91 KB, 500x500, 1604475058217.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
18363498

this is old news
society is collapsing and men are leaving

nothing new on the western front

>> No.18363505

>>18363471
Why wouldn't an incel be among the best candidates for the job?

Do you think Taxi Driver was written by a stable, financially secure guy?

>> No.18363516
File: 74 KB, 768x558, decline_in_sex.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
18363516

> m-m-muh tinder, muh hypergamy, muh top 20% of men

>> No.18363532

>>18363475
dude ,the just be white(JBW ) game can only work to a certain extent.It's true that white men have it better compared to ethnic men,but u're deluded if u think that u would be able to land a 6 or a 6.5/10 ethnic women by being a sub 5 white man.The south east asia maxxing has slowly started declining because even those ethnic women have access to good education,internet,etc.

>> No.18363535

>>18363516
Interesting figures, thanks anon.

>> No.18363537

>>18363497
>Where did you find out about it?
I don't really remember, probably just someone mentioned it here and I downloaded it.
>It's a perfect example of English humour imo
Exactly what I thought as I read it, unlikely that any other nationality could produce a book on such a subject with such a light and humorous tone. It made me laugh out loud in the most unexpected moments.

>> No.18363540

>>18363516
ur looks are positively to correlated to social and economic status.

>> No.18363544

Just wanna mention that you might wanna move this thread to
>>>/pol/ or >>>/b/

>> No.18363549

>>18363505
Primarily because an incel has too much at stake in the whole discussion to say anything meaningful about it in the form of a book. Assuming that hatred of women (and/or society) is part of the identity, you would just get a book spewing one-sided vitriol and narcissistic self-pitying rants. I'd say journalists (or non-incel authors) talking to incels could provide important takes on the problem and demographic, but just having an incel relate their daily life would read like a Roger Elliot manifesto. Of course, that doesn't necessarily have to be the form of the book, but any book or theory infused with that kind of hatred is bound to be horrible.

Also, I don't know all that much about Paul Schrader. Seems the guy was already in the business when he wrote it? So probably somewhat financially stable.

>> No.18363558

>>18363544
Lefties are all about socioeconomic issues until people want to talk about an actually pertinent socioeconomic issue for once.

>> No.18363563

>>18363537
Glad to see someone else has enjoyed this book. I really think it deserves a larger readership, particularly in the UK. It's eccentric but in a mundane and level-headed way. Reminds me of Philip Larkin or something.

>> No.18363566

>>18363549
It's impressive how much substanceless verbiage you manage to cloak your lazily rationalized primitive hatred of sexually unsuccessful men in.

>> No.18363567

>>18363549
>I'd say journalists (or non-incel authors) talking to incels could provide important takes
kek
all u've to do is read the selfish gene to see what's at stake.

>> No.18363579

>>18363549
or an intro of any biology text book on reproduction for that matter.

>> No.18363580

>>18363232
>The Feminist.

What's that?

>> No.18363583

>>18363549
Good point, although in my experience inceldom isn't always defined by pure vitriol etc. The whole Doomer thing is mostly just depression and self-abasement for example.

Paul Schrader had already made a name for himself in the movie industry, so had the kind of critical detachment and frame of reference (not to mention connections) necessary to produce a screenplay that was "artistic", although he wrote it during a period of unemployment and depression, and much of the plot (e.g., meeting a young hooker) comes from his experiences and mindset at that time. I think he wrote the entire thing in two weeks.

>> No.18363585

>>18363390
You answered your own question I believe

>> No.18363598

>>18363424
>I find it an unconvincing that men today are especially disadvantaged or ill-treated.
you are probably not a male who has tinder lol. Check youtube social experiments on men's experience on tinder

>> No.18363603

>>18363580
Short story which received a similar online buzz to Cat Person:

https://nplusonemag.com/issue-35/fiction-drama/the-feminist/

Elliot Rodger meets SJW culture.

>> No.18363605

>>18363532
But it's not just be white. It is also: Don't be a degenerate. That is where most guys fail. Incel forum posters are almost 100% gaymers and animefags (or worse). Chin implants can't even begin to offset this.

>> No.18363608

>>18363598
Still, it wasn't exactly paradise on earth for men prior to Tinder. A large portion of the male population have always died without marrying or reproducing.

>> No.18363612

The only consistent correlation throughout history for spikes in (male) virginity is economic crisis.

>> No.18363613

>>18363566
>lazily rationalized primitive hatred
This is what it means to be an incel in a nutshell.
What reason could I possibly have for hating sexually unsuccessful men?
>>18363567
Will read. Thanks.
>>18363583
I take the average person talking about being an incel on 4chan to be pretty representative of inceldom, which seems to be an identity of hate first and foremost. I'm sure there's people who are simply involuntary celebates who don't feel the need to stick their head in the sand and blame it all on someone or something else.

>> No.18363617

>>18363605
>Chin implants can't even begin to offset this.
Can't tell if satire or not.
>just get a chin implant, bro.

>> No.18363618

>>18363580
An attempted satire published in n+1. It's available online.

>> No.18363621
File: 698 KB, 3088x2320, 1586142137433.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
18363621

Everyone is conveniently ignoring the fact that vast majority of those celibate young men aren't even interested in dating. They're completely immersed in video games and porn, putting little or no effort into socializing with women.

In reality, sex is easier than ever. Now that the stigma of casual hookups is gone, most girls are dtf on the first date. A sheltered misogynistic incel who lives online wouldn't know that, of course...

>> No.18363629

>>18363612
Norway's economy is strong as far as I know, yet in the past 20 years the number of men reaching 50 without having children has increased from 17% to 25%:

https://sciencenorway.no/children-and-adolescents-demography-gender-and-society/why-are-fewer-men-becoming-fathers-than-before/1767348

Granted economic factors play a big part.

>> No.18363633

>>18363621
We're talking about potential gf/wife material, not whores. Obviously whores have always existed. That's just disgusting and is likely to give you an STI which then lowers your own chance of ever finding a non-whore.

>> No.18363634

>>18363618
>attempted satire

Expand please? I thought the story (which was hilarious and sinister in equal measure) was quite fair to the protagonist, despite the author posting on Twitter about how "main character = bad, feminism = good" or something like that.

>> No.18363646

>>18363633
You won't find a wife without certain degree of experience. Do you just expect her to commit to your fumbling incel hands and virgin cock?

>> No.18363648

>>18363265
Any Houllebecq novel

>> No.18363649

>>18363633
>whores have always existed

Whores in the sense of prostitution don't actually exist today in many Western societies, except in the form of escorts which isn't necessarily legal as far as I know. For many men, visiting a prostitute was the norm until as late as the 1950s or something. In Europe "most bourgeois men around 1900 had their first sexual experience with a prostitute" (quote). Makes you think.

>> No.18363652

>>18363613
>This is what it means to be an incel in a nutshell.
You haven't the slightest idea of what you're talking about.

>What reason could I possibly have for hating sexually unsuccessful men?

People are born with contempt for the genetically inferior. Women (sexual selection in general, really) literally exist to weed them out of the human gene pool. Men naturally hold inferior men in contempt for their inferiority, it's an affront to everything a man should be.

Why is it that even people who pride themselves on not being afraid of going against the grain suddenly turn into the most lukewarm milquetoast fucks ever when sexually unsuccessful men come up?

>> No.18363653

Also a general reminder: YOU ARE NOT CELIBATE, EITHER VOLUNTARILY OR INVOLUNTARILY, IF YOU MASTURBATE, FUCK YOURSELF UP THE ASS, WATCH PORN OR DO OTHER DEGENERATE SHIT. IF THAT IS THE CASE, THEN YOU HAVE MERELY REPLACED INTIMACY WITH A LESSER FORM OF SEXUAL BEHAVIOR. AND A FUTURE UPDATE BECOMES INCREASINGLY UNLIKELY.

>> No.18363656

>>18363265
Also White Nights by Dosto sort of fits the bill

>> No.18363660

>>18363646
It's very disheartening that women perceive virgin men to be so repulsive, although as a virgin male I can understand why they would do so. A lack of sexual experience often correlates with a lack of life experience in general, and thus a lack of evidence that a man is able to handle life and its suffering, struggles etc.

>> No.18363663

>>18363498
Men aren’t leaving. They’re being crowded out or left behind. Every single statistic that gets pointed to: marriage rate, divorce rate, birth rate, virginity rate is driven by female choice almost exclusively. That’s just the reality. They’re subject to forces which are largely beyond their control and there’s no choice to be made on their part.

>> No.18363666

>>18363660
Correct. Harsh, but that's how it is.

>> No.18363668

>>18363232
Women as well. Most people are celibate these days. Hyper sexuality isn't "hyper", its just streamlined into commodity. Women are completely fried and addicted to social media so they prefer this over relationships. Men are domesticated and aren't allowed to have masculine traits or else they get brigaded. Essentially, we reached the end point of human beings as human beings which is why you're seeing more people becoming trannies (non humans).

>> No.18363669

>>18363621
>They're completely immersed in video games and porn, putting little or no effort into socializing with women.
Thats impossible. That trend only exists in strange Japan.
>>18363353
>movie named Mart
kek I saw that movie shilled on /wsg/ jsut a day ago. Guess Ill finally check it out but only cause its a classic and not cause im ugly
>>18363390

>> No.18363671

>>18363646
If I have to risk venereal disease just to "gain experience" with a repulsive whore, I think that is then off the table. Thankfully, I doubt wife material would care about sexual experience, especially when that can be increased over time
>>18363649
>Whores in the sense of prostitution don't actually exist today in many Western societies, except in the form of escorts which isn't necessarily legal as far as I know
I wasn't using the term literally, as in "provides sex in exchange for money" (which is literally the same as an escort). Whores have basically become free today, so technically they're not whores, but...

>> No.18363674

>>18363663
You forgot immigration. Never in the history of Europe before has there been demographic change of this magnitude happening with the speed it is happening right now.

>> No.18363676

>>18363669
>Thats impossible. That trend only exists in strange Japan.
Wrong. Happening everywhere. Most children are born with smart phones in their hands and 1/36 kids in America have autism due to the shit that is in food, air, and soil. The elites won. They successfully created a mutt herd autistic slave caste out of all of humanity and people are celebrating this fact. If you're still conscious enough to feel like somethings wrong, try and find a woman who does too and raise a new city-state outside as best you can.

>> No.18363681

>>18363621
>In reality, sex is easier than ever.
It’s not. It’s only easier than ever for the handful which find success on apps and online. The large majority don’t even get opportunities to meet women let alone date them. Our society has been fundamentally inverted but it’s still driven by female choice. That should be obvious to people but the reaction, even by men, is to just blame men. If what you said were even true (it’s not) perhaps we should instead ask why it’s so appealing for young men to drop out of society entirely and instead escape into video games pornography. My guess is they find it vastly preferable to the opportunities they’ve inherited, which is to say, nothing because they’ve inherited no opportunities.

>> No.18363684

>>18363676
i was joking.

>> No.18363685

>>18363674
Don’t know if that’s female social choice so much as economic actor choice though

>> No.18363686

>>18363301
horseshit. subject matter is not story.
another retard who doesn't get it.

>> No.18363688

>>18363671
>I doubt wife material would care about sexual experience
If you believe this, you also lack social experience, not just sexual

>> No.18363690

>>18363621
>Everyone is conveniently ignoring the fact that vast majority of those celibate young men aren't even interested in dating. They're completely immersed in video games and porn, putting little or no effort into socializing with women.

Porn and video games are a symptom, not a cause. Men would never choose either over tight, wet pussy on tap if they had a choice.

>> No.18363691

wonder how much the percentage of men under 30 who self identify as gamers has increased in the last 10 years

t h i n k i n g e m o j i

>> No.18363700

>>18363688
>you also lack social experience, not just sexual
How so? In my experience the only women who care are the whores I just mentioned. I've met exactly one (1) who didn't.

>> No.18363703

>>18363688
>you also lack social experience, not just sexual
NA is (should be) asleep right now.
So where are you finding these girls? Do you specifically go to the richest clubs and the most toxic university facultis?
I have rarely met such a girl in Germany, and when I did it was very obvious how unusual and in the minority these girls are

>> No.18363704

>>18363685
Women, who constitute little over half of voters, are overwhelmingly pro-immigration, not in small part because it's a sink for their unused maternity instinct in a world where a not insignificant percentage of women have no children at all, or only have one when they're 35 or something.

>> No.18363705

>>18363690
I really wish adjectives were banned on here in relation to sexual experiences and female genitalia. Every additional adjective is like another wound inflicted.

>> No.18363709

>>18363621
lmao the sheer cope from the other people responding to this is amazing. People really don't want to admit that they only have themselves to blame.

>>18363690
Men choose porn and video games over actual women because in order to get actual women, they have to go outside. However, many men simply prefer the convenience of video game and porn.

>> No.18363720

>>18363704
That might be true but at least here in America, immigration is hardly subject to democratic choice. It simply happens whether you want it to or not and generally, it’s coordinated by a corporate-government axis who is interested in either cheap labor or shoring up birth rates. Immigrants have kids. Domestics don’t. And immigration, as we know it, is really nothing more than a state sponsored labor program. It exists to shuttle young, low wage workers or high skill workers into the work force.

>> No.18363722

>>18363660
a lack of sexual experience of a particular man would indicate to a particular women that other women simply don't find that particular person attractive(thanks to bad genetics) and that means that particular women need not waste time trying to interact or think of trying to interact with that particular man.

to put it simply it's price's law and halo effect.

>> No.18363723

>>18363709
>they have to go outside
Do you seriously think having sex is as simple as "going outside"? How clueless are you?

>> No.18363724
File: 379 KB, 500x775, The Last Binge Ever Volume 1.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
18363724

>>18363330
It already exists bros...

>> No.18363725
File: 106 KB, 640x646, 1604529917499.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
18363725

>>18363663
they are leaving because they are being pushed to a marginalized state

men are second-class citizen in today society

>> No.18363731

>>18363709
>However, many men simply prefer the convenience of video game and porn.

I disagree. I think for most men video games and porn are an escape from the meat market of contemporary dating where being an average guy has never before been a more humiliating experience. It's the avoidance of pain, frustration, and humiliation, not the seeking of easily obtained and convenient pleasure, that is the highest priority in most men's minds.

>> No.18363733

>>18363709
>However, many men simply prefer the convenience of video game and porn.
More like they don’t prefer the pile of shit that they have waiting for them beyond that front door but we see your point.

>> No.18363741

>>18363700
>>18363703
I'm not saying you need to slay 100 girls and become alpha of the sexual hierarchy, but adult male virginity is outright repulsive for women. Ideally you need to experience casual flings and a long-term relationship too, because those rarely work out on the first try and you'll be a much better partner in your next one.

>> No.18363744

>>18363709
they've made several attempts in trying to find a women who would date them and have failed a gazillion times.The failure obviously starts from ur teen years.See the amount of men vs women on any dating or matchmaking site.Men are far more ready to date and approach women.

>> No.18363745

>>18363498
>>18363725
I like these images.

>> No.18363746

>>18363725
They’re not leaving. The same men, if they suddenly found themselves in a situation with agreeable terms would gladly date and have sex. But the average young male physically does not even get the opportunity to meet young women anymore save for certain environments where it’s strictly taboo and he can’t compete in a market driven by online dating. There’s hardly a choice to be made on their behalf. They’re simply playing with cards that they’ve been dealt.

>> No.18363748

>>18363720
>It simply happens whether you want it to or not and generally
Why do you make it sound so deterministic? There was nothing about the process through which immigration took place that couldn't have been avoided by just not doing it.

>> No.18363750

>>18363741
You don't get it, though. I'm not interested in multiple relationships. I want one relationship that lasts until one of us die (ignoring exceptional circumstances). All traditional civilizations considered this normal and ideal. Why has modern society inverted the standard so that emotionally destroying yourself multiple times over the course of your life is considered normal? Don't pull the "just accept it because it's normal" card on me, that is utter bullshit. If I have to choose a woman, I'm choosing one that is ideal for me and that will most likely never do anything stupid or filthy.

>> No.18363752

>>18363709
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jt8JMQUoKto

see this and then talk whatever shit u want.

>> No.18363757

>>18363746
It's pure entitlement. What makes these people believe that men are obligated to contribute to a society that hates their guts and does everything in its power to not allow them even the slightest chance at self-realization?

>> No.18363762

>>18363741
This is my big fear. Also to take into consideration is that for a women to give a virgin adult male a chance is to risk providing him with a sense of confidence and self-esteem which he may not have experienced previously, the outcome of which is unpredictable and therefore a risk. If a guy hasn't ironed out his inter-personal flaws in a previous relationship, then his sexual skill (if he turns out to be sexually skilled) will be perceived as sinister because he must have learned that from pornography, and his behaviour if ever offputting or whatever may be viewed as something only a mother has and should put up with (rather than minor character quirks which previous females have overlooked). Women prefer a stable, tested, independent, emotionally mature, strong-willed man who is respected by society (either by his immediate peers or in a wider sense) and who has proven that he doesn't collapse when faced with (inevitable) hardship.

>> No.18363763

>>18363750
>I'm not
>I want
See, that's your problem. I understand your point of view but that's not how contemporary women perceive it. You can screech and tradlarp all you want, women will always be naturally attracted to dominance and experience - it's their natural instict.

>> No.18363769

>>18363763
Your problem is that you think all women are the same. I'm the incel here but I'm actually arguing that some women can be good (the majority, however, are repulsive to all but the most depraved men).

>> No.18363770

>>18363762
nigger,there's no sexual skill or "it's not how big it is ,it's only how u use it that counts".

Being a virgin is a signal to a woman that many women are not attracted to u to have sex and that immediately turns them off and makes them run away from u.

>> No.18363773

>>18363762
>Women prefer a stable, tested, independent, emotionally mature, strong-willed man who is respected by society
Absolutely. The average incel simply wants to pick a woman and expects her to tolerate all his immature awkwardness and flaws which only disappear with sexual experience.

>> No.18363779

>>18363769
By "good" you mean having no standards?

>> No.18363782

>>18363750
>I want
Well then find a woman who wants the same thing. If you can't then you're just complaining that what you want is different to what they want

>> No.18363788

>>18363773
KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK KEK

jeffrey dahmer,jeremy meeks,ted bundy and all other handsome criminals have very good personality who are also respected by society bro

>> No.18363789

Who fucking cares
Girls are gay

>> No.18363792

>>18363709
Men choose porn and video games to deal with decreasing life standards/expectation.

>> No.18363796

>>18363741
>Ideally you need to experience casual flings and a long-term relationship too, because those rarely work out on the first try and you'll be a much better partner in your next one.
>>18363762
>If a guy hasn't ironed out his inter-personal flaws in a previous relationship
I don't know where you get this idea that people actually grow as people through serial monogamy. Everything I have seen has led me to the opposite conclusion. Those who avoid serial monogamy and instead spend time figuring out how to fix their problems with one person over a long period of time grow significantly as people, while those who engage in serial monogamy instead adopt maladaptive patterns of behavior, some avoidant, some manipulative, and some abusive, in order to get their way. The most romantically "successful" people I've met are consistently the people who I trust the least and want the least to do with.
Also, this thread is off-topic and very low quality. The marriage rate in Western societies was close to 100% until a few generations ago. Law and culture, which are downstream of thought, are the reasons for what you see around you.

>> No.18363802

>>18363779
Bro you assume that he somehow is akward, has no social skill, no degree etc. He could have those and simply not want to give himself to the opposite of what he wishes in a woman.

>>18363750
Try looking for youth clubs associated with churches

>> No.18363803

>>18363779
No, having much higher standards than "regular" "women".
>>18363782
You told me I wouldn't find a wife without sexual experience. I'm not complaining, merely stating that you are wrong, and also that proper relationships are extremely hard to come by in today's world (which is just a statement of fact that you seemed not to believe earlier).

>> No.18363811

>>18363788
Thistbh

>> No.18363817

>>18363802
Church girls (catholics particulary) are just as promiscous before marriage as any random girl, you're setting him up for disappointment.

>> No.18363823

>>18363549
With your reasoning someone like Céline shouldn't have been able to write his works.

>> No.18363824

It's so bizarre to me, when people try to imply that sexual success has anything to do with the virtuousness or perceived moral shortcomings of people. Moral character has nothing to do with the sexual success or lack of success of a man.

>> No.18363830
File: 50 KB, 542x566, 1607457666283.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
18363830

>THIS THREAD

DATING WOMEN IS A PRIVILEGE, YOU HAVE TO BE A MATURE MAN TO DO THIS

TOP KEK!

>> No.18363831

>>18363802
>assume that he somehow is akward, has no social skill, no degree
He said he's incel himself. Degree is irrelevant in this context.

>> No.18363832

>>18363757
Because that’s not how it is for them

>> No.18363836

>>18363817
I guess youre right, especially on catholic nominals, but if he isnt hasty theres a more of a chance in those circles I think

>> No.18363855

>>18363748
Because it is deterministic to a large degree. You play the hands your dealt and that’s all. You are simply subject to social forces whether you want to be or not. You’re just a person swimming in a sea of other people and while you can try to convince the others to swim in a certain direction, ultimately the current will carry you how it’s going to carry you and all you can do is swim how you see it best fit in response to that.

>> No.18363857
File: 253 KB, 1050x1015, 20210211_072645.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
18363857

ITT: PUSSY ON A PEDESTAL

YOU ALREADY LOST

>> No.18363858

>>18363724
Has anyone here read this? How is it?

>> No.18363859

>>18363789
Most men care. It's fine to imagine yourself as some kind of hyper-rational genius detached from animal impulses when you are young or in the case that you struggle so much with basic needs (shelter, sustenance) that you don't have the luxury of thinking about a romantic relationship, but most men desire love and intimacy either in a gooey way or just in a more basic sense (e.g. someone to have sex with, experience things with, etc). Girls themselves may be gay but girls are still the only really available means by which a man can intimately relate to another person in a vulnerable manner. If you open up to someone and let them become acquainted with your flaws and peculiarities and they don't reject you, it is a deeply relieving and touching experience and provides you with the confidence to open yourself up to new experiences, potential failures, and so on. Without that intimate affirmation of your character, you are likely to decline into a state of guarded paranoia and resentment, plagued by intense emotional convictions that people aren't good enough for you, or that you aren't good enough for them, or some other kind of extremist, calamitous way of thinking which is out of touch with reality (which is pretty boring), constructing a vision of the world in which you are a pathetic, peripheral, infiltrator too weak and inexperienced to become meaningfully engaged with. I say that as a virgin.

>> No.18363860

>>18363831
And? Afaik incel relates to celibacy not financial security, being social etc. There are a lot of normal incels, you could discuss how much its their fault, others etc but I think thats beyond the subject matter

>> No.18363863

>>18363757
just because women are being told that they gain everything if they jsut employ their ebin girl power, doesnt mean their advantages over their male coutnerparts actually will make them any less of slaves to technological society than the man who cant get a raise and promotion.
One day they too realize the system is fucked no matter how many stickers they employ, and then she is jsut like the disenfranchised dude. Some girls never fall for this trap, some take a few years but they obviously exist. They are in this mess jsut as much as guys are. Chad will discard them and leave them for an actual stacy when it matters anyway.

>> No.18363866

>>18363796
Like it or not, men who have already been in a relationship (including previously married men) are more attractive to women than virgin men. It's why the number of childless women is significantly lower than the number of childless men; women tend to have kids with the man who already has kids.

>> No.18363871

I don't get it why the "incel" phenomenon is a complicated thing for /lit/ fags to grasp.It's just genetic determinism and female nature .Women are first and foremost attracted to certain genetic markers that indicate genetic health and fitness in men such as tall height, a good shoulder to waist ratio(iirc above 1.6), good facial structure,caucasian ethnicity,etc.If u give women free choice they'll naturally gravitate towards men who have such genetic markers.

>> No.18363873

>>18363860
If he were social, mature and financially secure, then his celibacy would be voluntary.

>> No.18363876

>>18363866
yes, if you are a man who can get a girl you are more likely to have had a girl. Doesnt mean a guy who can pull girls has had a girl.
kek stop coping.

>> No.18363877

>>18363859
Anon it was just a shitpost you don't need to take it so seriously

>> No.18363881

>>18363802
>Try looking for youth clubs associated with churches
I've been considering joining a Church, but I think I'm too old for youth clubs. The only problem I've had with the idea of church is that I feel intellectually dishonest because I can't put myself properly behind certain dogmas.

>> No.18363885

>>18363824
>Moral character has nothing to do with the sexual success or lack of success of a man.
Very interesting. I think that any successful society organizes its entire culture around trying to make this statement as untrue as possible. — In other words, trying to make it so the good guy (and ONLY the good guy) gets the girl. I remember a while back I heard the same thing said a bit more pungently: "Civilization is based on cockblocking the undeserving."

Obviously your statement is always going to be partly true. That's the way Nature (and especially women) work. But *how* true? The margins could be very narrow here. If the statement is 40% true or less, society thrives. If it ever rises to 60% true or more, society collapses. Where do you think we are now?

>> No.18363886

>>18363866
1. That's got absolutely nothing to do with anything I said.
2. What is preferred in one society is not necessarily preferred in another. You seem to believe in the existence of a transhistorical "female nature" that is not observed outside of recent times. You are literally abusing yourself by believing in these silly spooks instead of deciding to live on your own terms and looking for someone who is willing to come along with you. Your lot will improve once you've abandoned the standards of the society that has given you so little.
>>18363871
It's not genetic. These people would not have been celibate a century ago. Genetic determinism is literal autism.

>> No.18363887

>>18363877
Sorry dude, I'm pretty high-strung.

>> No.18363894 [DELETED] 

>>18363232
...and that is a good thing.
Keep you dignity and don't get sucking into fucking hundreds of sluts like I did.
It is a waste of time and energy.
Spend your early 20s lifting, reading and making money.

>> No.18363896

>>18363887
It's ok, anon.

>> No.18363897
File: 49 KB, 545x840, Whatever.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
18363897

>>18363265
Houellebecq

>> No.18363910

>>18363873
Fair enough, but one it might as well hinge on that, two the typical neet association is exaggerated and he might be well on his path to that

>>18363881
I respect you wanting to not use those means to achieve a goal outside of what the mean itself represents. But given your values Im sure just the communal experience typical of a church can justify you looking in that direction

>> No.18363912

>>18363886
>It's not genetic. These people would not have been celibate a century ago. Genetic determinism is literal autism

are u really that dumb?? Socially enforced monogamy 60 years ago was the fucking norm retard.

>> No.18363922

>>18363608
That's due to wars and infant mortality, doesn't really apply to the present situation

>> No.18363928

>>18363886
>It's not genetic.
I'm not the guy you were answering. but I think you're making a clear mistake here.

You seem to be saying, that if a 5/10 incel in 2021 complains that he's an incel because he's only a 5, he's wrong, because in 1850, an average 5 could be married, if he wanted.

The historical fact may well be true. But it doesn't mean the other guy was wrong. Women naturally want to have sex with the 'best' men — the 8,9,10s. A hundred or two hundred years ago, society imposed a framework upon them so a 5 woman couldn't do that. She would marry a 5 man and feel herself lucky to get him. These days, no such framework exists. So if you're a 5/10 incel these days, you can blame a combination of three things: the organization of society, women's natural proclivities, and the genetic cards you were dealt.

>> No.18363931

>>18363885
>Civilization is based on cockblocking the undeserving

I would argue that this is already the case, only that moral considerations are applied to a man's willingness to invest his energy into the improvement of society. For example, the main reasons a man is perceived as unattractive is that he is unemployed or occupies a lowly position within the social hierarchy, which is afforded moral significance by judging him to be lazy, entitled, selfish etc; all of which are adjectives related to morality. His personal, private characteristics are merged with and judged inferior to his public characteristics. Since men are now treated by society as neutral units of production, their job applications either processed with equal or inferior consideration than that of a women, many men then cry foul when application to become a romantic partner is not treated in the same way. In other words, the social system does not take the dating system into account when distributing power and status, even though power and status are the key determinants in the latter system. If a workplace is determined to secure a 50% female workforce regardless of qualifications, then the 20, 30% of men sacrificed for that ideological venture are likely to be judged as lazy, weak, selfish as a means of justifying the pursuit of the remaining 50% of men whose jobs are still secured within that workplace.

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