formal argument for the validity of transgenderism

[Anonymous No.18388165]

>(P1) X is “natural” iff it’s socially unmediated and inevitable.
>(P2) Gender is socially mediated and not inevitable; gender roles change with the times.
>(C) Therefore, gender is not “natural” since it’s socially mediated and not inevitable.

Are there any books building on this?

[Anonymous No.18388175]

>>18388165
Name one socially unmediated thing that isn't physiological

[Anonymous No.18388177]

>>18388175
your mum

[Anonymous No.18388178]

>>18388165
That's a dude, and will always be a dude. Gender is a phony concept made up by John Money in the 1950s after torturing little boys into admitting they were girls.

[Anonymous No.18388179]

>>18388165
Ywnbarw

[Anonymous No.18388195]

the funny thing remains the fact that all these cucks seething about how someone else lives there life, without harming these cucks, is bad for some reason. They seem to think they have a say in the matter, pathetic and laughable thought. You have no power. Hatred is all you can give. Keep sitting in your caves. That is truly where you belong.

[Anonymous No.18388202]

>>18388165
Problem is that you are starting from a fake premise: Gender. There is no such thing as gender, and no, sex roles do not determine wether you are a man or a woman, that's a biological thing, it only determines wether you are more masculine or femenine. You can be a femenine man and you are still a man, you can a be a masculine woman and you would still be a woman. Yes, it is common to say things like "You are not a real man" or "That's not manly", but that doesn't make you any less of a man in the literal sense. Believing that is like believing that doing "inhumane" things makes one less of a human in the literal sense of the world.
>inb4 intersexuals
They are mutations, exceptions to the rule.

[Anonymous No.18388203]

>>18388165
>'the validity of transgenderism'
This is a confused enquiry. What does it mean for transgenderism to be 'valid' or 'invalid'? It is something that people (typically, but not universally deranged) do, not a logical proposition. If you want to examine the issue logically, first clarify what proposition you are actually investigating for truth/falsity

[Anonymous No.18388206]

>>18388195
For real. If we had to pretend everybody had a thin membrane of gold around their skin to make everybody happy and nobody would get hurt by the belief, i don't see why anybody wouldn't do it.

[Anonymous No.18388225]

>>18388195
No one cares how mentally ill freaks spend their existence, the problem is when they want everyone to believe their nonsense is the truth and get authoritarian about it.

[Anonymous No.18388226]

>>18388202
>There is no such thing as gender, and no, sex roles do not determine wether you are a man or a woman, that's a biological thing, it only determines wether you are more masculine or femenine
yeah the argument already disproved this

[Anonymous No.18388239]

>>18388226
The argument equates sex roles with gender, which is not true.

[Anonymous No.18388252]

>>18388239
the roles played by each gender are its defining characteristic

[Anonymous No.18388254]

As a feminine gay man that takes hormones I can say that it greatly improved my life.

[Anonymous No.18388257]

>>18388165
formal argument for you being retarded
If P())()()( == you being retarded therefore true
bam ezpz QED

[Anonymous No.18388262]

>>18388225

>We live in a society

>>18388202

Sex is not a binary. And all things are mutations, you might as well say green eyes aren't an eye colour. Plus hormone replacement IS changing your sexual characteristics. In an absence of genders, there would still be people who wish to take on female sexual characteristics, however, the dysphoria would probably be lessened or absent, since it is still essentially a biological thing, partly rooted in the structure of the brain. Otherwise trans people wouldn't seek out reassignment surgeries.

[Anonymous No.18388266]

>>18388165
Wtf is this first premise.

[Anonymous No.18388275]

>(P1) X is “natural” if it’s socially unmediated and inevitable.
That's a retarded premise.
I could find countless examples to disprove it, like for instance pregnancy.
Pregnancies are socially mediated through birth control and abortions. They are also culturally mediated through anti-natalism propaganda. So it is not inevitable.
Yet no one would deny that a woman becoming pregnant after sex is a natural phenomenon.
Yet it is both socially regulated and not inevitable.
So your premises is retarded.

[Anonymous No.18388286]

>>18388195
I have no problems with transpeople living their lives. HOWEVER, when people start running around saying grammatical gender needs to be abolished, I get annoyed.

[Anonymous No.18388287]

>>18388165
Being hard to CP is socially unmediated and inevitable. Being a fucking pedophile is a natural thing then? Having psychopathy is also unmediated and inevitable. Is it also natural? I don't think so.

Some serious work would need to be done to prove your first premise.

[Anonymous No.18388292]

>>18388262
>Sex is not a binary.
Yes it is. You're either a man or a woman.
>Plus hormone replacement IS changing your sexual characteristics.
You can't grow a vagina and a womb taking hormones.
> Otherwise trans people wouldn't seek out reassignment surgeries.
They seek radical surgery because they have a mental disorder. Cutting off your cock is not normal.

[Anonymous No.18388293]

>>18388286

Half the class when I had to take a year of French in high school said this and I doubt any of them knew trans people weren't just gay men in drag. English speakers in general see no value in grammatical gender. I don't understand it or see the need myself, but I don't know enough to have the right to an opinion desu.

[Anonymous No.18388294]

No because it’s not valid.
Transgenderism is a cult

[Anonymous No.18388302]

>>18388195

[Anonymous No.18388305]

>>18388293
>and I doubt any of them knew trans people weren't just gay men in drag.
There is no point in trying to create a distinction between slightly different expressions of pedophilic perversion

[Anonymous No.18388307]

>>18388293
Trannies are just gay men in drag.

[Anonymous No.18388308]

>>18388293
Well thank got they weren't faggots in drag - i couldn't suport their rights then. Phew.
Trans rights 'til i fucking die

[Anonymous No.18388309]

>>18388305
Kek

[Anonymous No.18388324]

>>18388195
>>18388206

It does hurt society. These degenerates are no good in war, they can't reproduce, they're disgusting, and they're being "included" in various institutions where they engage in their mentally ill shenanigans degrading the institution and lowering morale. Not to mention that they're working to groom other young men into it, young men who will now not be able to start families nor die in war. So even if I grant your negative freedom principle about harm, it still does not hold, because trannies are absolutely harmful to society.

But there's no reason to accept such a pluralism. Society should be structured towards the common goods, towards encouraging virtuous lives, u unvirtuous people should be shunned.

Oh, and neither of you will ever be a woman.

[Anonymous No.18388329]

>>18388165
What I don't get is that if gender is socially constructed why can't we just keep constructing it in a way that doesn't allow people to transition. If it's just a construction then that's just as valid as allowing trannies, but the "gender is socially constructed" argument always gets trotted out like it immediately follows that we should allow trannies.

[Anonymous No.18388330]

>>18388292
>They seek radical surgery because they have a mental disorder. Cutting off your cock is not normal.
I have come up with a logical proof for why genital mutilation surgery is invalid:

1. The genitals are a deeply connected with the mind and the soul.
2. To wish to physically remove or alter them is in and of itself a sign of severe mental illness
3. A person who is severely mentally ill is incapable of giving consent.
4. By the very act of consenting to genital mutilation surgery, a person is unequivocally proving themselves to be incapable of consent
Conclusion: genital mutilation surgery is a crime against humanity akin to raping a child and must be outlawed everywhere on earth

[Anonymous No.18388335]

>>18388262
>Sex is not a binary
Neo-Lysenkoist retard. YWNBAW. Humans are sexually dimorphic. There are two sexes. Genetic anomalies are not new sexes. You need to be locked in an insane asylum

[Anonymous No.18388346]

>>18388324
>because trannies are absolutely harmful to society.
not convinced. the reasons youve given are absolutely retarded.

[Anonymous No.18388352]

>>18388329
a) There is no "gender." It's a faux-concept invented by John Money in the 1950s after torturing little boys into admitting they were girls. There is only sex and each sex has natural characteristics and leanings.
b) Transsexuals are mentally ill. It's a mental disorder for a man to believe he's a woman and for a woman to believe he's a man.

[Anonymous No.18388353]

>>18388346
Grooming children is harmful to society, objectively.
You have no argument, since your religion relies on child grooming to survive

[Anonymous No.18388355]

>>18388324
No one has to die in a war or have children if that's not their will. It's something you threw at them.

These rights are not yours to grant

Young men shall do as they please, you have no power, nor do you deserve to, criticize them for their life choices which are harming your nationalistic war time concerns. Those concerns are yours to deal with, not them.
And virtue shall not be decided by you, a rat.

Oh and all of them, if they please, will be women

[Anonymous No.18388363]

>>18388353
how do they groom children?

[Anonymous No.18388365]

>>18388292
>yes it is. You're either man or woman
Wrong. Binaries don't overlap. If it was a binary it would be impossible to possess characteristics of both either. And gene expression can vary wildly as well.

>You can't grow a vagina
So what you're saying then is that trans men who undergo hysterectomies aren't women? Are they men then?

>radical surgery because they're mental
More anti-intellectual shit. Disappointed, anon.

[Anonymous No.18388368]

>>18388355
You had me until the end, next time be more subtle, faggot.

[Anonymous No.18388369]

>>18388324
>These degenerates are no good in war
They likely wouldn't be good in war whether or not they troon out
>they can't reproduce
Since there's likely a genetic component to becoming a tranny then that should make you happy.
>they're disgusting
The real world does not care about your feelings.
>they're being "included" in various institutions where they engage in their mentally ill shenanigans degrading the institution and lowering morale. Not to mention that they're working to groom other young men into it
Name 5 such examples of both of these

Look at how mad you're getting at a mere .5% of the population. Please seek help.

[Anonymous No.18388376]

>>18388368
Your mind has been melted anon
Stop coming here it's harming you

[Anonymous No.18388378]

>>18388365
>So what you're saying then is that trans men who undergo hysterectomies aren't women? Are they men then?
Retarded Fallacy. Please learn how to make a coherent argument. Funnily enough, that will require you to take antipsychotic meds, which will cure you of your delusions and you won’t have any need to argue in favor of crimes against humanity

[Anonymous No.18388383]

>>18388292

https://www.nature.com/articles/518288a

[Anonymous No.18388387]

>>18388365
>Wrong. Binaries don't overlap. If it was a binary it would be impossible to possess characteristics of both either. And gene expression can vary wildly as well.
The characteristics don't "overlap" necessarily, there is always a distinguishing aspect.
>So what you're saying then is that trans men who undergo hysterectomies aren't women? Are they men then?
They're butchered women with botched genitals.
>More anti-intellectual shit. Disappointed, anon.
That's the medical consensus. Trannies are have mental disorder. Shrinks just changed the name to a euphemism but it remains the same principle. Sorry if it doesn't follow your delusions.

[Anonymous No.18388388]

>>18388369
>Look at how mad you're getting at a mere .5% of the population.
Yes, normal people get mad at child rapists
>Please seek help.
Said the child rape advocate

[Anonymous No.18388396]

>>18388383
That's been refuted already.

[Anonymous No.18388397]

>>18388388
I do not condone or advocate for child rape you fucking retard nor was there anything in my post alluding to such nonsense.

Once again, seek help.

[Anonymous No.18388400]

>>18388387
>That's the medical consensus. Trannies are have mental disorder
not so sure bout that lad

[Anonymous No.18388401]

>>18388365
>Wrong. Binaries don't overlap. If it was a binary it would be impossible to possess characteristics of both either. And gene expression can vary wildly as well.
That's retarded, no one denies that there are common attributes between men and women. Both have 2 arms and 2 legs.
You're clearly not a banana, yet you share DNA with bananas.
>So what you're saying then is that trans men who undergo hysterectomies aren't women? Are they men then?
They are men butchered into a crude mockery of women, just like you would be a crude mockery of an elephant if I was to surgically implant a trunk on your face.
>More anti-intellectual shit. Disappointed, anon.
He's right, though.
Trans acceptance is giving way to people who are mentally ill. Doesn't mean we should hurt them of deny them, but I don't think the right solution is for society to go along the ramblings of mentally ill individuals

[Anonymous No.18388404]

Language is use. If a person is called a woman then they are one. Internal identity and such doesn't matter, inner feelings don't matter, biology doesn't matter. We're talking about the meaning of words, and if we're being descriptive, trans women who pass are women. Just like the word sadness refers not the internal sensation of sadness but the outwardly demonstrable public behavior, Women does not refer to anything beyond the performance and appearance needed to be socially recognized as a Woman. Simple.

[Anonymous No.18388405]

>>18388383
>da website sez science so dat mean it real
Drooling NPC retard. Do you have any clue what the scientific method is?
Your whacko superstitious cult bullshit is not scientific in any way. It is as scientific as scientology.

[Anonymous No.18388411]

>>18388400
Sorry, mate, but they do have a mental disorder. You can call it anything you want. Fact remains.

[Anonymous No.18388413]

>>18388355

Fucking speciesist piece of shit. I hope you catch bubonic plague, which for the record, was not the fault of rats, but fleas and our filthy human settlements.

[Anonymous No.18388414]

>>18388275
This single post should have been the end of this stupid thread.

[Anonymous No.18388415]

>>18388397
Unless you are denouncing the use of chemical compounds to alter the future sexual function of children, you do condone child rape

[Anonymous No.18388422]

>>18388414
they didnt read P2

[Anonymous No.18388427]

>>18388405

It's an academic journal you fucking lunatic XD

[Anonymous No.18388428]

>>18388346
> Not convinced

How about you convince me that normalizing insanity, mass insanity, will do anything other than societal collapse?

Fighting wars and replacing the old generation are the 2 basic requirements for civilization.

You've got one part of being a woman down, which is arguing like one.

>>18388355
> Noone has to die in a war.
Human existence is war, full stop. It will come to you whether you want it or not. The moment America loses its military supremacy, you will die a horrible death.

> Young men shall do as they please, you have no power, nor do you deserve to, criticize them for their life choices which are harming your nationalistic war time concerns

There is no such thing as a man sans polity. There was, furthermore, no nationalism anywhere to be found in my post. It has nothing to do with the "nation" which is a 19th century progressive notion, it's an ontological claim. Being is a state of war.


> Oh and all of them, if they please, will be women

Lol, imagine if one of your grandfather's heard you say this. No worries though, USD will be overtaken by the yuan withing 20 years, we'll probably be in a mass casualty conflict by 2049 regardless, and you'll snap back from your self imposed delusions, troid.

>>18388369
2% of gen z*.

The assistant health secretary, my university's education department, literally any military unit run by one of the new tranny officers.

>The real world does not care about your feelings

Subject is substance, ergo, yes it does.

You will never be a real woman.

[Anonymous No.18388438]

>>18388428
>Fighting wars and replacing the old generation are the 2 basic requirements for civilization.
these two ideas contradict each other. if you want to continue civilization, stop fighting wars.

[Anonymous No.18388445]

>>18388415
I assume you're talking about giving HRT to gender dysphoric kids in which case you'd be surprised but I partly agree with you. While I don't believe doing so should be banned, there is a legit concern as to whether said kids are just going through a phase or not. Imo, if they're given then the kid should be carefully monitored by doctors over the course of several years.

Ultimately though, you're talking about a tiny proportion of what is already a small fraction of the population.

[Anonymous No.18388446]

>>18388427
So fucking what?
Those journals are infested by Neo-Marxist vermin. No scientific journal that writes about “systemic racism” and “white supremacy” is credible.
Nature and the Lancet are both filled with mentally ill tranny retards like yourself who hide behind a false premise of “science” to give legitimacy to your literally insane cult beliefs.

[Anonymous No.18388451]

She's irrefutable.

[Anonymous No.18388456]

>>18388451
He's been refuted already ITT.

[Anonymous No.18388457]

>>18388438
> Heh, just stop fighting wars

Water is a scarce resource in much of the world, so long as scarcity exists war exists.

Not to mention that there's no reason to want to get rid of war, that would bring about the last man(which is what you want, isn't it?).

[Anonymous No.18388458]

>>18388428
>my university's education department
Spotted the underage zoomoid

[Anonymous No.18388459]

>>18388456
No to your entire post.

[Anonymous No.18388466]

>>18388363
Discord, drag queen story hour, the very notion of trans kids in general.

[Anonymous No.18388469]

>>18388445
HRT is not given to kids. Puberty blockers are not HRT and reversible.

[Anonymous No.18388471]

>>18388459
cope