Traditionalism general - Kalachakra edition

[Anonymous No.18440045]

Thread for discussing the ideas and books of thinkers associated with the Traditionalist school, sometimes also known as the Perennialist school. Including but not limited to:

- Rene Guenon
- Martin Lings
- Seyyed Hossein Nasr
- Frithjof Schuon
- Ananda K. Coomaraswamy
- Julius Evola
- Jean Borella
- Titus Burckhardt
- Philip Sherrard
- Marco Pallis
- Michel Valsan
- Charles Upton
Also thinkers indirectly affiliated, influenced by, or similar to Traditionalism:
- Henry Corbin
- William Chittick
- Mircea Eliade
- Arthur Avalon etc

Here's a documentary on Perennialism:
https://youtube.com/watch?t=135s&v=P_CNg4dpU54
An hour long interview with Julius Evola
https://youtube.com/watch?t=611s&v=QiCtdi5nCoA

And lastly, a talk by the most eminent Traditionalist around today:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=fIjW1z-ZAX8

old: >>18432049

[Anonymous No.18440059]

Here's a short text on the exoteric-esoteric distinction in Islam:
http://www.fatuma.net/text/Haqiqa_and_Sharia_in_Islam_by_Rene_Guenon.pdf

Here's an exchange of letters between an Islamic member of the Traditionalist school and a Christian critical of traditionalism, specifically debating over the idea of non-dualism
http://www.sacredweb.com/online_articles/sw17_bolton-upton.pdf

Here's an article by Nasr on the influence of Rene Guenon in the Islamic World
https://traditionalhikma.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/The_Influence_of_Rene_Guenon_in_the_Isla.pdf

A book examining the parallels between Sufism and Taoism
https://archive.org/stream/ToshihikoIzutsuSufismAndTaoism/Toshihiko%20Izutsu%20-%20Sufism%20and%20Taoism#page/n1/mode/2up

An article on the metaphysical structure of the Absolute that is elaborated in Guenon's writings
http://traditionalhikma.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/The-Logic-of-the-Absolute-the-Metaphysical-Writings-of-Rene-Guenon-by-Peter-Samsel-.pdf

[Anonymous No.18440064]

>>18440045
Helo guenonfag larper


>inb4 lol
>inb4 murtad
Don't reply retards

[Anonymous No.18440068]

Who is Rene Guenon?

>René Guénon defies classification. . . . Were he anything less than a consummate master of lucid argument and forceful expression, his work would certainly be unknown to all but a small, private circle of admirers.”
—Gai Eaton, author of The Richest Vein

>“Guénon established the language of sacred metaphysics with a rigor, a breadth, and an intrinsic certainty such that he compels recognition as a standard of comparison for the twentieth century.”
—Jean Borella, author of Guénonian Esoterism and Christian Mystery

>“To a materialistic society enthralled with the phenomenal universe exclusively, Guénon, taking the Vedanta as point of departure, revealed a metaphysical and cosmological teaching both macrocosmic and microcosmic about the hierarchized degrees of being or states of existence, starting with the Absolute . . . and terminating with our sphere of gross manifestation.”
—Whitall N. Perry, editor of A Treasury of Traditional Wisdom

>“René Guénon was the chief influence in the formation of my own intellectual outlook (quite apart from the question of Orthodox Christianity). . . . It was René Guénon who taught me to seek and love the truth above all else, and to be unsatisfied with anything else.”
—Fr. Seraphim Rose, author of The Soul After Death

>“His mixture of arcane learning, metaphysics, and scathing cultural commentary is a continent in itself, untouched by the polluted tides of modernity. . . . Guénon’s work will not save the world—it is too late for that—but it leaves no reader unchanged.”
—Jocelyn Godwin, author of Mystery Religions in the Ancient World

>“René Guénon is one of the few writers of our time whose work is really of importance. . . . He stands for the primacy of pure metaphysics over all other forms of knowledge, and presents himself as the exponent of a major tradition of thought, predominantly Eastern, but shared in the Middle Ages by the . . . West.”
—Walter Shewring, translator of Homer’s Odyssey

[Anonymous No.18440074]

I would be careful about reading Advaita Vedanta interpretations such as Shankara's as a commentary to the Upanishads, they are extremely reliant on Buddhist philosophy (Shankara is called a "cryptobuddhist" by most Hindus, and most scholars agree). If you want to read the Upanishads, work through them with editions and commentaries that aren't sectarian, or at least read an interpretation that is closer to the original meaning of the Upanishads, rather than Shankara's 9th century AD quasi-buddhism.

[Anonymous No.18440076]

>“In a world increasingly rife with heresy and pseudo-religion, Guénon had to remind twentieth century man of the need for orthodoxy, which presupposes firstly a Divine Revelation and secondly a Tradition that has handed down with fidelity what Heaven has revealed. He thus restores to orthodoxy its true meaning, rectitude of opinion which compels the intelligent man not only to reject heresy but also to recognize the validity of faiths other than his own if they also are based on the same two principles, Revelation and Tradition.”
—Martin Lings, author of Ancient Beliefs and Modern Superstitions

>“If during the last century or so there has been even some slight revival of awareness in the Western world of what is meant by metaphysics and metaphysical tradition, the credit for it must go above all to Guénon. At a time when the confusion into which modern Western thought had fallen was such that it threatened to obliterate the few remaining traces of genuine spiritual knowledge from the minds and hearts of his contemporaries, Guénon, virtually single-handed, took it upon himself to reaffirm the values and principles which, he recognized, constitute the only sound basis for the living of a human life with dignity and purpose or for the formation of a civilization worthy of the name.”
—Philip Sherrard, author of Christianity: Lineaments of a Sacred Tradition

>“Apart from his amazing flair for expounding pure metaphysical doctrine and his critical acuteness when dealing with the errors of the modern world, Guénon displayed a remarkable insight into things of a cosmological order. . . . He all along stressed the need, side by side with a theoretical grasp of any given doctrine, for its concrete—one can also say its ontological—realization failing which one cannot properly speak of knowledge.”
—Marco Pallis, author of A Buddhist Spectrum

>“Guénon’s mission was two-fold: to reveal the metaphysical roots of the ‘crisis of the modern world’ and to explain the ideas behind the authentic and esoteric teachings that still [remain] alive.”
—Harry Oldmeadow, author of Traditionalism: Religion in the Light of the Perennial Philosophy

[Anonymous No.18440083]

[Anonymous No.18440089]

>Rene Guenon is the most correct, smartest and most important person of the twentieth century. There was no smarter, deeper, clearer, absolute Guenon and probably could not be. It is no coincidence that the French traditionalist René Allé in one collection dedicated to R. Guenon compared Guenon with Marx. It would seem that there are completely different, opposite figures. Guenon is a conservative hyper-traditionalist. Marx is a revolutionary innovator, a radical overthrower of traditions. But Rene Halle rightly guessed the revolutionary message of each of Guenon's statements, the extreme, cruel noncomformity of his position, which turns everything and everything upside down, the radical nature of his thought. The fact is that René Guenon is the only author, the only thinker of the twentieth century, and maybe many, many centuries before that, who not only identified and confronted with each other secondary language paradigms, but also put into question the very essence of language (and metalanguage).

>The language of Marxism was methodologically very interesting (especially at a certain historical stage), subtly reducing the historical existence of mankind to a clear and convincing formula for confronting labor and capital (which, in fact, was a colossal revolutionary and predictive course, because it allowed many things to be systematized and brought together into a single, more or less consistent, dynamic structure). Being a great paradigmatic success, Marxism was so popular and won the minds of the best intellectuals of the twentieth century. But R. Guenon is an even more fundamental generalization, an even more radical removal of masks, an even broader worldview contestation, putting everything into question.

- Aleksandr Dugin, author of Political Platonism and The Fourth Political Theory

[Anonymous No.18440093]

>"I would give anything to nibble on that smooth feminine penis."
—Guenonfag

[Anonymous No.18440096]

>>18440074
>>18440064
>>18440083
>>18440093
either contribute to discussion or gtfo

[Anonymous No.18440135]

>>18440045
>>18440059
>>18440068
Thanks for the texts, but I doubt much will come of this thread

[Anonymous No.18440137]

>>18440135
the last thread was great, read through the last 100 posts or so

[Anonymous No.18440148]

Continuing the discussion of the Shadow of the Dalai Lama and his relationship with AUM Shinrikyo
http://www.trimondi.de/SDLE/Part-2-13.htm
>The final war could not be fought without effective weapons. Asahara recruited a small group of highly qualified scientists, all university graduates in the natural sciences: chemists, biochemists, electronic engineers. They were commissioned to establish large laboratories for the manufacture of chemical and biological weapons. According to Kaplan and Marshall colonies of all sorts of deadly bacteria were cultivated there, anthrax, influenza, and even the notorious Ebola virus. The young people dreamed of gigantic laser cannons. “When the power of this laser is increased,” Asahara says, “a perfectly white belt, or sword can be seen. This is the sword referred to in the Book of Revelations. This sword will destroy virtually all life” (Kaplan and Marshall, 1996, p. 207). He was especially fascinated by a “microplasm” weapon with which all living things could be vaporized in seconds. “The weapons used in World War III” he wrote in 1993, “will make the atomic and hydrogen bombs look like toys. At present, the centerpiece of the Russian arsenal is called the star-reflector cannon. The United States has the Strategic Defense Initiative and the extension of this is 'microplasma’" (Archipelago, I, HPI 003).

>In particular, Asahara’s ingenious scientist, Hideo Murai reveled at the idea of all kinds of apocalyptic weapons of destruction. He was a specialist in electromagnetic (EM) phenomena. For him too, and for his work, the tantric law of inversion would one day take effect. At first Murai began by constructing weapons to defend the cult against the military apparatus of the superpowers. For years his paranoid guru believed himself to be the target of electromagnetic and chemical attacks by the most varied worldly and religious secret services. It was only thanks to his elevated spirituality that he was still alive at all. As redeemer of the world he wanted to rescue humanity from an imminent war of destruction and hence he devoted his thoughts to what countermeasures could be developed. But then came the moment when defense turned into attack. Hideo Murai was commissioned by his guru to develop miraculous weapons that were no longer defensive, but would rather accelerate the end of the world.

[Anonymous No.18440150]

I only specifically read greek and hindu literature rest and meditate 2 hours a day

[Anonymous No.18440162]

>>18440150
>meditate
>doesn't have a guru
counter-initiation vibes

[Anonymous No.18440171]

[Anonymous No.18440192]

>>18440137
Il have a look, and Il stick around for a bit then

[Anonymous No.18440208]

>>18440074
No careful posting allowed

[Anonymous No.18440264]

>>18440162

“On this path effort never goes to waste, and there is no failure. Even a little effort toward spiritual awareness will protect you from the greatest fear.” - Bhagavad-Gita 2:40

[Anonymous No.18440267]

>>18440137
QRD?
t. noob

[Anonymous No.18440275]

>>18440267
I linked the thread at the bottom of the OP

[Anonymous No.18440283]

does bhagvat geeta deals with existential crisis?

[Anonymous No.18440312]

Is René Guénon et les sept tours du diable (“René Guénon and the Seven Towers of the Devil”) available in English? I can't even find the french version.

[Anonymous No.18440323]

>>18440312
No. The french version is on google archive

[Anonymous No.18440330]

>>18440275
Didn't see that. Thanks

[Anonymous No.18440346]

>>18440312
It has not been translated. Also it is futile to read it and try to understand implications of it without reading Les Sept têtes du Dragon Vert ("The seven heads of the Green Dragon) that has not also been translated to English either.

Seven Heads of the Green Dragon deals indirectly with Papus, whose Guénon was a disciple of. But then again, it is not a historical novel, but rather, it carries a message in veil of narrative.

[Anonymous No.18440347]

>>18440312
this article gives a QRD on the subject. Pretty interesting desu
https://www.soulask.com/sacred-geography-seven-towers-of-satan/

[Anonymous No.18440359]

>>18440323
I wish I could read french. There is so much that I am missing out. Is there anything written about it online so I can at least google translate the text (I found a scanned version)? What's the main idea of the book?

[Anonymous No.18440371]

>>18440359
I haven't read the book. Also, learn french.

[Anonymous No.18440373]

>>18440347
Thank you very much anon.

[Anonymous No.18440396]

>>18440359
>What's the main idea of the book?

Counter-initiation and their historical and geographical considerations. But then again, it is not direct novel in a sense that most of the stuff is written in a sort of veiled and suggestive manner.

The Big Dipper, that is in the shape of the Seven Towers is a Guénonian thing he talks in his other articles. But it is also connected closely to certain other Hermetic symbolism that is dealt.

The Seven Sages or Sapta Rishi are also associated with the Big Dipper, but these 7 towers are the inversion of the sapta rishi and they can be associated with certain other initiated symbols.

For example, the floor of the vault of Adepti of the Hermetic Order of Golden Dawn was the Seven Headed Dragon and it came from certain Rosicrucian symbolism. Even Blavatsky's personal seal features the Dragon's Head with "Three Point Brothers" symbol. (I post it in next post) and it also features the Swastika that Big Dipper forms in its passage through the Sky.

[Anonymous No.18440400]

>>18440347
Very interesting site desu.

[Anonymous No.18440409]

>>18440396
This is the early Rosicrucian symbol of Blavatsky she adopted as her personal seal

On the bottom right you can see the Dragon's Head, or Caput Draconis Lunae symbol.

Golden Dawn talk of this being the head of the "Stooping Dragon".

The 8th head of the Stooping Dragon was "blasted off" in the Golden Dawn system of the Fall and Aleister Crowley deals of this symbolism in his Liber 418.

Crowley also associated it with the Demon Choronzon of John Dee:
>For Choronzon is as it were the shell or excrement of these three paths, and therefore is his head raised unto Dath, and therefore have the Black Brotherhood declared him to be the child of Wisdom and Understanding, who is but the bastard of the Svastika.

The Three points are also referenced in the name "A∴A∴" who someone have misunderstood as being a Masonic reference to Three Point Brothers, when it refers to the Supernals.

These people are not directed by "Reason", they are directed by the very forces what can be identified as those forces that breed in the abyss of height and abyss of depth. They have declared Knowledge as the "child of Wisdom & Understanding". These people can be properly called "Satanic", and not in a sense of inner liberator, but actual destructive and dissolutive influences that will corrode everything and everyone around them.

[Anonymous No.18440463]

>>18440409
>These people are not directed by "Reason", they are directed by the very forces what can be identified as those forces that breed in the abyss of height and abyss of depth. They have declared Knowledge as the "child of Wisdom & Understanding". These people can be properly called "Satanic", and not in a sense of inner liberator, but actual destructive and dissolutive influences that will corrode everything and everyone around them.
Devilman.

[Anonymous No.18440466]

My parents think that I am a schizo because I practice my religion everyday. They make me angry everytime they try to falsely interpret my religious conversion and sometimes they blame themselves for the way in which I behave(refuse to listen to music/go to parties, wake up during the night to pray, etc.). What should I do? Ofc they can't stop me since I am not a kid anymore but their complains are very annoying.

[Anonymous No.18440555]

>>18440396
>>18440409
Very interesting observations thanks anon.
What do you think about niger and chadic africans (also Fulbe in sudan) having a very high percentage of R1b given that Guenon says that one of the towers is located in that region. It might not have any connection but it came to my mind after reading the article this anon posted >>18440347

[Anonymous No.18440561]

>>18440555
see this link and sort by R1b it's fascinating.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-DNA_haplogroups_in_populations_of_Sub-Saharan_Africa

[Anonymous No.18440579]

>>18440466
>My parents think that I am a schizo
Maybe don't join an internet cult?

[Anonymous No.18440603]

>>18440555
>>18440561
Well I personally don't consider these influences physical in any sense of the word or/even connected to the cultures that might currently live in those regions

Guénon talks about those centers as of being once great spiritual centers, but since they have become inactive/died, they become some sort of dead vortexes of Energy that certain Sorcerers can activate for their own use, in a sense of necromancy and making parody of those said centers

I cannot find the exact quote, but similar would be like digging up some Egyptian priesthood ritual items and symbolism and constructing your own version of it with malicious intent or something, using some sort of once genuine spiritual vestiges in a perverted fashion.

[Anonymous No.18440607]

>>18440555
I think you are leading our brothers astray with your focus on the material, hylic.

[Anonymous No.18440613]

>>18440466
>And We have enjoined upon man concerning his parents- his mother conceived him in feebleness upon feebleness, and his weaning was in two seasons. Give thanks to Me and to your parents; to Me is the Destiny.
>If they strive to make you associate with Me anything about which you have no knowledge, then do not obey them. Yet keep their company in this life according to what is right, and follow the path of those who turn to Me. You will all return to Me in the end, and I will tell you everything that you have done.

[Anonymous No.18440622]

>>18440074
Is this a bot?

[Anonymous No.18440625]

>>18440579
Hylics seethin.........
Brothers memein....while we dreamin.... Of a season....where reason.....is diesel....for a vehicle.....that we needin.....to fight treason.....stop it breathin.....best be believin.....what we meanin....when we postin bout the gnosis.....
Hylics can't help but ghost us....cos they knows us.....to be soldiers.....
That'll roast yuh.....roll ya up like a postuh......make ya feel like we own ya......make ya mom get a boner... Yeah she moanin...
But we goin.......toward knowin....what Guenon was showin...
Before...we was Ronin's....didn't know where we was goin.....we was Rollin....like the stone did......fo Guenon done did throw it....to the skies whey the birds is.....whey they angels...whey they souls is......we home now...welcome home bitch

[Anonymous No.18440653]

>>18440607
>555 digits confirm
I think that I am onto something here and not leading anyone astray. These people might have a secret to them.
Also Guenon said that werewolves exist in Sudan.

[Anonymous No.18440672]

>>18440653
Guénon had lots of second hand information and even those "werewolf" society he sometimes called the Leopard Society (this is dealt briefly in The Seven Towers of the Devil)

The Leopard Society itself may be some reference to Theban Priests who wore such Leopard hides, for example pic related is a priest who Aleister Crowley claimed to be reincarnation of (Ankh-f-n-Khonsu) seen on his Stele of Revealing wearing a leopard hide.

[Anonymous No.18440692]

>>18440555
Doesn't really matter and don't put all of your trust in scientific dna studies. Also, there are many muslims in those countries who don't practice things related to lycanthropy. Let's not exaggerate over such things.

[Anonymous No.18440708]

Is David Lynch a counter-initiator?

[Anonymous No.18440717]

>>18440622
r u?

[Anonymous No.18440730]

>>18440717
I am guenonfag, let's meet and fight.

[Anonymous No.18440731]

>>18440708
Unconscious pawn of forces he could possibly understand

[Anonymous No.18440737]

>>18440731

[Anonymous No.18440749]

>>18440672
Not everything has to be only symbolic and/or esoteric. There could be real werewolves but we they just don't show themselves.
Also why does this nigga have red hair? could this also be related to the R1b stuff?
Modern day Thebes (Luxor) is basically Sudan (full of niggers)
t. traveled to Egypt (and Luxor)

[Anonymous No.18440757]

>>18439447
How do I get magnetic hands?

[Anonymous No.18440770]

>>18440737
It all boils down to Shambala. They talk of it, it is the home of "Great White Brotherhood" that Lynch also talks about, The White Lodge.

The Shambhalic Tradition in the West has been perverted by Counter-Initiation

According to Guénon, Shambhala is a center of high evolutionary energies in Central Asia. It is the source of all our religions and the home of Yoga Tantra, having a vital relationship to the kundalini science on which all our systems of self-transformation are based. Reflecting the changes in the aeonic cycles of the earth and the unfoldment of humanity's soul, it is the prototypic Holy Land of which all other Holy Lands such as Jerusalem, Delphi and Benares are or have been secondary reflections. "In the contemporary period of our terrestrial cycle," he stated, " – that is to say, during the Kali Yuga – this Holy Land, which is defended by guardians who keep it hidden from profane view while ensuring nevertheless a certain exterior communication, is to all intents and purposes inaccessible and invisible to all except those possessing the necessary qualifications for entry." Once it was open and more or less accessible to all, and will be again with the closing of the Kali Yuga, but presently exists in a veiled state and is understood, if acknowledged at all, only in metaphorical and symbolic terms.

In the same prophetic spirit, other occult writers saw Shambhala as the venue of the imminently returning Christ. The neo-Theosophist counter-initiatior Alice Bailey, who was of the same era as Guénon, had nothing to say about Agarttha, but described Shambhala as "the vital centre in the planetary consciousness" and the home of the great spiritual hierarchy of which the Christ was the head. She related it to the Second Coming, and through the writings of her disciple Vera Stanley Alder gave out many apocalyptic prophecies scheduled to be fulfilled in the latter part of the century. Other esotericists likened the mystical center to Campanella’s City of the Sun and to Dante's Terrestrial Paradise. Like Tomas, they saw in it a significant likeness to the Rosicrucians' Invisible Academy of initiates so widely publicized in seventeenth-century Europe. That fraternity likewise was never found, but claimed to safeguard through the ages the highest spiritual and social ideals and promised the imminent coming of the New Jerusalem.

[Anonymous No.18440775]

>>18440749
>taking human colours of egyptian paintings literary
Should I remind you that women are depicted as white and men as red in egyptian paintings?

[Anonymous No.18440786]

>>18440770
>>18440749
>>18440737

Also keep in mind, Shamballa and Agartha are not the same. Morning of the Magicians deals with this

Agartha is the Guénonian Central Asian Paradise
Shamballa is the counter-initiatory

[Anonymous No.18440797]

>>18440770
Is it really the gate to the hollow earth? I heard it was in North Korea or the Himalayas. The SS found the Anunnaki(tall greays) there or in Antarctica. Maybe there are two gates.

[Anonymous No.18440798]

>>18440786
Marco Pallis said that the term Agartha is a western invention(not the concept), while Shamballa can be found in Asia.

[Anonymous No.18440813]

>>18440797
I don't think that Guenon believed in a hollow earth. Also, Agartha for him wasn't a material place.

[Anonymous No.18440823]

Perennialism is absolute bullshit and you are all larpers. Had you read Plato, you wouldn't be buying into this garbage.
No need to (you) me, this will be my only post and I am now exiting this thread.

[Anonymous No.18440840]

>>18440068
>>18440076
>Here's these perennialists praising other perennialists
Holy echo chamber batman

[Anonymous No.18440844]

>>18440797
>>18440797
No this is scifi bullshit, read the Seven Heads of Green Dragon

It deals with the initiatic connection between East and West

>>18440798
Agartha is Western through Edward Bulwer's Lytton concept of Vril that was veiled

[Anonymous No.18440846]

>>18440823
Plato was initiated into the greek mysteries, he wasn't a degenerate from the 21th century who reads philosophers all day.

[Anonymous No.18440859]

>>18440844
Is he going to raise Thule?

[Anonymous No.18440864]

>>18440731
Not that anon. But is Kunihiko Ikuhara, counter-initiatic? He was quite clear in his interviews, that he was producing pozzed agitprop; and considering the demonic nature of his Feminist and LGBT fans, it's pretty evident of counter initiation. But I'm interested in your opinion and any other guenonians. since Ikuhara is notorious for his obscurantism.

[Anonymous No.18440887]

>>18440864
Who fucking gives a shit. Counter initiation is a meaningless term thrown around by clueless tards. Investigate things for yourself instead of waiting for daddy guenon to tell you if X is good or bad.

[Anonymous No.18440939]

Is Guenonfag even an Initiate? Cause if you larpers don't follow a tradition I don't see the point baka

[Anonymous No.18440949]

>>18440887
It is not meaningless term if you understand what counter-initiation means

Alice Bailey, one of chief masters of counter-initiation through Lucis Trust, said that the externalization of Hierarchy is said to occur in 2025.

This means that they will make themselves "appear" in the outer world, it is either some sort of project blue beam disclosure or some fucked up, literally possessed individuals of the NWO that are inhabited by these demonic spirits of Galactic Federation and similar fucked up shit

We are already seeing the fucking beast system getting rounded up, everyone needs to be vaccinated with the fucking corona fucking shit vaccines THIS IS PROFOUNDLY SICK

Look at this Israeli WEBM

The Green Pass in Hebrew reads like "Green Dragon", in that video they even make a reference to GREEN DRAGON

Green Dragon
https://www.thegreatcoursesdaily.com/the-green-dragon-society-pulp-fiction-or-real-secret-society/
>Some propose that the true origins of the Green Dragons lay in China, or Tibet. It’s also claimed that unlike the Black Dragons, the Greens didn’t deal in political action but in occult influence. Arguably, they were parallel societies, pursuing the same ends by different means.

>The Green Dragons, like the Black, operated globally. Their reach supposedly extended to tsarist Russia and Nazi Germany. Emperor Hirohito, Adolf Hitler, and Rasputin have been tied to them, fairly or not

>It was allegedly run by 72 secret masters, a number identical to the ‘72 Unknown Superiors’ revered by various occult orders. To achieve their nefarious aims, these unseen masters generated war, revolution, and chaos

>S.I.M.P stood for Superieur Inconnu, Maitre Philippe, ‘Unknown Superior, Master Philippe’. Was Master Philippe one of the 72 secret masters? Regardless, Philippe was a French occultist, and an early spiritual guide of the Empress Alexandra. Her later adviser, the infamous Grigori Rasputin, was also linked to a mysterious group called ‘The Greens’

>The story culminates in Berlin, where Agent Nobody comes face to face with the so- called Man with the Green Gloves. He’s described as an Asian who looks like a living statue yet is able to converse in “excellent Oxford English”

GUENON WAS ALSO DISCIPLE OF PAPUS

IT'S THE GREEN DRAGON

[Anonymous No.18440954]

>>18440939
Guenonfag seems to care more about advaita, rather than Guenon's views as a whole. When it comes to me, I follow only the exoteric part of religion, I am not ready to be initiated.

[Anonymous No.18440960]

>>18440949
At: 1:05

"THIS GREEN DRAGON SOUNDS GOOD TO ME"

This is pecause the Israeli word for passport is דרכון = DRKVN = Dragon

[Anonymous No.18440963]

>>18440939
Guenon wrote some interesting stuff but I think his obsession with initiation is stupid and can be disregarded. I study esotericism on my own.

[Anonymous No.18441014]

>>18440949
What does Cannabis Tincture have to do with traditionalism?

[Anonymous No.18441017]

>>18441014
You don't understand how deep this goes

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Dragon_Tavern
>On this spot stood
THE GREEN DRAGON TAVERN
The secret meet place of the
Sons of Liberty,
And in the words of Webster, the
Headquarters of the Revolution.
To mark a site forever as
Memorable as the birthplace of American freedom,
this tablet is placed by the
Massachusetts Society of the Sons of Revolution.

[Anonymous No.18441020]

>>18441017
America is counter-tradition. Liberalism is a disease.

[Anonymous No.18441030]

>>18441020
That is not even my point

>Signs influence of secret Tibetan teachings of researcher Jean Robin finds in Russia. The main instrument of the Order of the Green Dragon, he believes there Rasputin regularly received from Sweden with a mysterious telegram signed "Green."

Thule Society and Wiligut inner circle and then there was the Green Dragon.

There have been rumors, that after the war, when communists stormed Germany, they found dead Tibetans https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Dragon_(order)

even the Russian Revolution, and both American Revolution were CONNECTED TO THE GREEN DRAGON

You don't understand the implications of both cases, they are historical TRUTHS

[Anonymous No.18441053]

Antinatalism is only true Perennial philosophy

Wisdom Of Silenus:
>"You, most blessed and happiest among humans, may well consider those blessed and happiest who have departed this life before you, and thus you may consider it unlawful, indeed blasphemous, to speak anything ill or false of them, since they now have been transformed into a better and more refined nature. This thought is indeed so old that the one who first uttered it is no longer known; it has been passed down to us from eternity, and hence doubtless it is true. Moreover, you know what is so often said and passes for a trite expression. What is that, he asked? He answered: It is best not to be born at all; and next to that, it is better to die than to live; and this is confirmed even by divine testimony. Pertinently to this they say that Midas, after hunting, asked his captive Silenus somewhat urgently, what was the most desirable thing among humankind. At first he could offer no response, and was obstinately silent. At length, when Midas would not stop plaguing him, he erupted with these words, though very unwillingly: 'you, seed of an evil genius and precarious offspring of hard fortune, whose life is but for a day, why do you compel me to tell you those things of which it is better you should remain ignorant? For he lives with the least worry who knows not his misfortune; but for humans, the best for them is not to be born at all, not to partake of nature's excellence; not to be is best, for both sexes. This should be our choice, if choice we have; and the next to this is, when we are born, to die as soon as we can.' It is plain therefore, that he declared the condition of the dead to be better than that of the living."

Hegesias of Cyrene, Death by Starvation:
>The book was called Death by Starvation or The Death-Persuader. According to the Roman orator Cicero (lived 106 – 43 BC), the entire book was essentially an argument for why everyone should just give up on life and kill themselves.

Ecclesiastes 4:1
>Again I looked and saw all the oppression that was taking place under the sun: I saw the tears of the oppressed-- and they have no comforter; power was on the side of their oppressors-- and they have no comforter.
Ecclesiastes 4:2
>And I declared that the dead, who had already died, are happier than the living, who are still alive.
Ecclesiastes 4:3
>But better than both is the one who has never been born, who has not seen the evil that is done under the sun.


THE DIALOGUE OF PESSIMISM, MESOPOTAMIAN WISDOM
>What then is good? To have my neck and yours broken, Or to be thrown into the river, is that good?
>Who is so tall as to ascend to heaven? Who is so broad as to encompass the entire world?

First Two Noble Truth of Buddhism:
>dukkha (suffering, incapable of satisfying, painful) is an innate characteristic of existence in the realm of samsara;
>samudaya (origin, arising) of this dukkha, which arises or "comes together" with taṇhā ("craving, desire or attachment")

[Anonymous No.18441166]

>>18441030

[Anonymous No.18441181]

>>18441030
okay anon i've read all your links
how do we counter the green dragons

[Anonymous No.18441333]

>>18441181

[Anonymous No.18441342]

*travels to Egypt to prove to Guenon that Advaita is just Buddhism and that's a good thing*

This honestly shocked me. It shocked Guenon too and he conceded some points but apparently backtracked on that concession.

What went wrong?

[Anonymous No.18441365]

>>18441333
checked
okay, let's start with the Niger one then we'll tackle Sudan and the werewolves

[Anonymous No.18441603]

>>18441342
>Advaita is Buddhism
is the other way around

[Anonymous No.18441719]

>>18441342
>Advaita is just Buddhism and that's a good thing
Both Coomaraswamy and Guenon were of the opinion that the doctrine of the Upanishads was Advaita, more or less as formulated by Shankara, that Buddha originally taught this same doctrine via an alternative means, and that later Buddhist schools misunderstood this. Coomaraswamy and Pallis convinced Guenon to come around to this view, from Guenon’s former view that all of Buddhist was anti-traditional garbage including original Buddhism. The extent to which Coomaraswamy and Guenon viewed Buddhism as traditional is really only insofar as it can be viewed as aligning with the eternal truth of Advaita, not vice-versa.

[Anonymous No.18441722]

>>18441603
But Buddhism came first.

[Anonymous No.18441727]

Advaita being cryptobuddhism is really the funniest thing that ever happened on /lit/

[Anonymous No.18441735]

>>18441719
>Guenon’s former view that all of Buddhist was anti-traditional garbage including original Buddhism.

How could he make such an idiotic mistake?

[Anonymous No.18441763]

>>18441735
because this is what the hindus who teached him advaita believed, I guess

[Anonymous No.18441775]

>>18441722
>But Buddhism came first
It emerged as a distinct school in history first, but Guenon, Coomaraswamy, Schuon etc viewed Advaita as being the message already taught by the Upanishads which themselves predated Buddha. Advaita was a doctrine being taught by Vedic sages and contained in the Upanishads before Buddha was even born, in the view of the Traditionalists and Advaitins both.

> Shankara was not in any sense the founder, discoverer, or promulgator of a new religion or philosophy; his great work as an expositor consisted in a demonstration of the unity and consistency of Vedic doctrine and in an explanation of its apparent contradictions by a correlation of different formulations with the points of view implied in them.
- A. Coomaraswamy, The Vedanta and Western Tradition

http://worldwisdom.com/uploads/pdfs/149.pdf

[Anonymous No.18441777]

>>18441722
No and Guenon wasn't even sure that Shankara was even a historical human being.

[Anonymous No.18441790]

>>18441775
>an explanation of its apparent contradictions by a correlation of different formulations with the points of view implied in them
perennialiam in a nutshell

[Anonymous No.18441797]

>>18440949
I saw this webm countless times on /pol/, but this is the first time I see it in this way.
What does the vaccine have to do with this? Does it kill your spirituality? I fail to see it this way since how could all doctors conspire to develop something like this without anyone speaking out about it? Many of them are not consciously agents of counter initiation but are under the illusion of science and the task of "saving humanity".
I think the vaccine and masks are mainly symbolic and/or some sort of ritual.

[Anonymous No.18441802]

>>18441735
>How could he make such an idiotic mistake?
Well, he did study Shankara’s works in Sanskrit, and Shankara BTFO’s Buddhism in his writings and lays out the reality of the Atman. If you’ve never been exposed to the viewpoint that Buddha secretly taught an Atman via apophatic negation (which is denied by most Buddhists anyway) it can be easy to slip into viewing Buddhism as a soul-denying NPC annihilationist religion.

[Anonymous No.18441812]

>>18441763
>what the hindus who teached him advaita believed, I guess

Prove they existed and he didn't just learn it from a book. Indians were banned from travelling outside of India during the time he claimed he learned about Advaita.

[Anonymous No.18441816]

>>18441802
So how come Coomaraswamy and Palis were smarter than Guenon?

[Anonymous No.18441817]

>>18440579
>this guy is retarded
>but he doesn't like niggers and he also drew a swastika one time so i guess he's alright

>>18440730
what are your lifts, homo

>>18441603
>marxism is communism?
>no, you got it backwards
>it's actually that communism is marxism
>>18441777
quads

>>18441797
all of the "elites" are running out of steam from le source which is why all their stuff has been weaker and more larpy these past years. basically because the kali yuga is going to end soon or something probably

[Anonymous No.18441822]

>>18441802
Guenon also approved Mahayana Buddhism as being valid. He agreed that it was influenced by other traditions but in a good way, unlike the indian Buddhism which he rejected.

[Anonymous No.18441828]

>>18441777
Coomaraswamy affirms unreservedly that Shankara was a real historical person in this essay here >>18441775 and not a name for a collective of people like Melchizedek and what have you

> There have been teachers such as Orpheus, Hermes, Buddha, Lao tzu, and Christ, the historicity of whose human existence is doubtful, and to whom there may be accorded the higher dignity of a mythical reality. Shankara, like Plotinus, Augustine, or Eckhart, was certainly a man among men, though we know comparatively little about his life. He was of south Indian Brahman birth, flourished in the first half of the ninth century A.D., and founded a monastic order which still survives. He became a samnyasin, or “truly poor man,” at the age of eight, as the disciple of a certain Govinda and of Govinda’s own teacher Gaudapada, the author of a treatise on the Upanisads in which their essential doctrine of the non-duality of the divine Being was set forth.
- A. Coomaraswamy

[Anonymous No.18441829]

>>18441817
>all of the "elites" are running out of steam from le source which is why all their stuff has been weaker and more larpy these past years. basically because the kali yuga is going to end soon or something probably

Didn't Guenon say it was going to last a very long time in The Reign of Quantity? He said don't expect it to end any time soon.

[Anonymous No.18441836]

>>18441812
Guenon is the last man who would lie. I put my trust in him.

[Anonymous No.18441840]

>>18441836
Good thinking. But they did break off all contact with him later because of stuff he said in King of the World. I guess they must have existed.

[Anonymous No.18441853]

>>18441829
and isaac newton (indirectly [basically]) said some time around 2060.
i don't think anybody knows for sure. it will end whenever kalki does it and he'll get around to it when he dang well decides to so quit reminding him about it so much he's busy

[Anonymous No.18441854]

>>18441775
>>18441719
>>18441735
You guys realize this is just autistic cope right? If you want to know the truth study comparative religion and syncretism instead.

[Anonymous No.18441865]

>>18441817
>"elites" are running out of steam from le source which is why all their stuff has been weaker and more larpy these past years
They are more powerful than ever in history and with the progress of technology they will have unimaginable power over the life of the average pleb.
What's their final plan? Do they pull some plebs down with them and move to a lower realm where they rule over another cycle?
>kali yuga is going to end soon or something probably
We haven't seen the worst yet. I think it will be another 200 years or something. There are still 219 years before we reach the year 6000 in the hebrew calendar

[Anonymous No.18441866]

>>18441812
I have never seen proof that Guenon was taught by Indians in France either, I have only seen the claim repeated by others. Maybe he mentions it in some letter which hasn’t been translated, but I’ve never heard of it. Sedgwick in his book said he found no evidence of it.

[Anonymous No.18441867]

>>18441840
We don't even know if they did that. Guenon just said in the book that some people reproached him that he said too much, not that they unfriended him. What you say comes from speculations.

[Anonymous No.18441869]

>>18441854
study religion from people who actually believe in it as a primary motivation rather than somebody who only does it for political ends or some modernist mish-mash "dude all religions are the same lmao" larper with an even lamer agenda

[Anonymous No.18441881]

>>18441775
>Advaita as being the message already taught by the Upanishads which themselves predated Buddha. Advaita was a doctrine being taught by Vedic sages and contained in the Upanishads before Buddha was even born, in the view of the Traditionalists and Advaitins both.
So this is is like when Islam claims Abraham or Moses or whoever were Muslims. If you read between the lines such claims are more evidence of a contemporaneous competitive religious landscape than they are historical fact. For many other Hindu schools not only predate advaita and rely on the Upanishads for scriptural support but they also make the same claim to being their proper exegesis. The historical fact remains that between Shankara and the Vedas there are many, many Buddhists, many of whom live rent-free in Shankara's commentaries due to the severe brahmin breaking which had taken place.

[Anonymous No.18441883]

>>18441854
I'm trying to understand why Coomaraswamy and Palis went against Guenon, proved him wrong about Buddhism, and then Guenon made some modifications to texts and then partially removed the modifications he made.

What's going on here?

[Anonymous No.18441885]

>>18441840
He exposed too much that's why they broke contact. Or sort of like that mother weaning her child, he had enough knowledge and it was the time to be on his own.

[Anonymous No.18441888]

>>18441885
Why would he expose too much? Didn't he know better?

[Anonymous No.18441897]

>>18441869
>study religion from people who actually believe in it as a primary motivation rather than somebody who only does it for political ends or some modernist mish-mash "dude all religions are the same lmao" larper with an even lamer agenda

Wait, so are you against Guenon then? GTFO hylic!

[Anonymous No.18441901]

>>18441881
>brahmin breaking
kek

[Anonymous No.18441910]

>>18441869
>"dude all religions are the same lmao"
lol what is this reductive crap. There are obvious parallels that point to the same thing, that doesn't mean they are the same. Real perennialism doesn't have these arbitrary limits about which one is more traditional because it sees the truth. Read Marsilio Ficino or Giovanni Pico della Mirandola.

>>18441883
Guenon was a grifter that made shit up to sell books just like Blavatsky and Crowley(and his followers today). Why do you think it took him 40 editions of the same book to say nothing? It was basically a pop-fiction magazine that he pushed copies of when he ran out of money for rent.

[Anonymous No.18441916]

>>18441883
Pallis had a minor contribution to this, if he even had any. Coomaraswamy talked about this subject with Guenon for years in their correspondences, before meeting him. Also, this was a friendly disagreement and correction, nothing crucial to the guenonian work though.

[Anonymous No.18441918]

My friend said that Indians only like Shankara for nationalistic reasons because they have an animosity towards Buddhism because it hurt their religion or something and that Shankara just found a way to integrate Buddhism in India while preserving their unique Hindu heritage. Today most Indians don't follow Shankara.

[Anonymous No.18441925]

what does /trad/ think about Rama Coomaraswamy and sedevacantism?

[Anonymous No.18441928]

>>18441916
That's reassuring. I know Guenon too had some disagreements with Schuon. Apparently Schuon liked to be naked all the time and hated Muhammad. Some even say he molested kids. I thought Guenon said that knowledge could never decrease. So why did Schuon become so anti-traditional? He was properly initiated too.

[Anonymous No.18441929]

>>18441916
It's a big deal because if Guenon endorsed Mahayana Buddhism as "trad" that means all the tradzooms who think they've defeated "nihilism" by memeing about theology don't even understand what their teacher said.

[Anonymous No.18441936]

>>18441928
I live like 10 min away from his place in bloomington

[Anonymous No.18441945]

>>18441885
I know one of the most controversial points in The King of the World was Guenon saying there literally is a short man in the hollow earth, approximately underneath Tibet, that controls the whole world. Could that be why the broke off all contact with him? This sounds very occultish, and borderline laughable to me. Is there a deeper significance to it?

[Anonymous No.18441946]

>>18441910
>he did it for fame
"we have always regretted that the habits of the present time did not allow us to publish our works under the cover of the strictest anonymity, which would at least have avoided to some to write a lot of nonsense, and to ourselves too often to have the trouble of picking up and correcting them. "

[Anonymous No.18441951]

>>18441936
Can you feel its spiritual influence? I know Guenon said that that's traditional.

[Anonymous No.18441953]

>>18441945
11th time when I ask you to quote where he said that, I am counting until you do it, faggot.

[Anonymous No.18441958]

>>18441946
Why didn't he write under a pseudonym like he did in the beginning? Is there an esoteric explanation for this?

[Anonymous No.18441963]

>>18441951
I haven't read schuon yet but plan on it this summer
i'm gonna scope it out and try to connect with some people here
will report back after labor day

[Anonymous No.18441965]

>>18441953
I said it's from The King of the World. It was a difficult read for me desu. Not because of the style or anything, but it just felt very weird.

[Anonymous No.18441966]

>>18441958
Probably people already knew him so it was useless.

[Anonymous No.18441977]

>>18441963
That's so cool! I hope you don't attract any demons though. Guenon said the counter-initiation can use spiritual places to make people transgender and hylic.

[Anonymous No.18441978]

>>18441965
There is no such thing said in the King of the World, that is why I ask you to quote it and you don't.

[Anonymous No.18441983]

>>18441966
Really? That's a little too exoteric for me.

[Anonymous No.18441989]

>>18441977
the homie died like 25 years ago so I can't imagine there's much left besides the houses and facilities they built.

[Anonymous No.18441992]

>>18441983
nothing wrong with exoterism desu

[Anonymous No.18442001]

>>18441965
that's his best book desu

[Anonymous No.18442012]

>>18441881
>For many other Hindu schools not only predate advaita
Not Vedanta schools, there had only been various individual thinkers who wrote one or two commentaries, but those thinkers failed to organize their doctrine into a systematic theology with followers, and it’s unclear in many cases what exactly their doctrine was since there are not even any full-length Vedanta commentaries that survive from before Shankara, Advaita was the first Vedanta school to coalesce into a formalized school with a systematic theology.
>there are many, many Buddhists, many of whom live rent-free in Shankara's commentaries
Not really, Shankara spends more time refuting Samkhya in his works than the amount of time he spends refuting Buddhism, he just explains why the Buddhists are wrong and moves on.
>b-b-but m-muh r-rent free..
stop thinking in memes

[Anonymous No.18442030]

>>18441865
technology is shit, loser. elites don't even have vimanas and they can barely even hang on to their own health
>but they can talk on the cellphone!
big whoop. if you're a fat sack brahmachari you don't even need a cellphone but modern elites don't know anything about that.
>and with the progress of technology they will have unimaginable power over the life of the average pleb!
they're losing steam. they're all coomers who worship subhumanity. they drink their own koolaid (diversity hires, letting their own children become polluted, etc).
>What's their final plan?
they're just trying to stay standing at this point. even trump fucked them up bigly (btw, trump isn't secretly /ourguy/ or secretly a kike or anything dumb like that. he is everything he appears to be on the surface - just a big-talking boomer big-businessman with a big iq who wants his name in big gold letters on mount rushmore, nothing more. any convoluted theories about trump are a result of the fact that he's a good salesman and good at convincing everybody, including jews and the media, that something YUGE is happening when really it's not). the cow has one leg and it can't go on much longer. they get rattled by any little thing. bitcoin is another example. i know these are not big examples but that's my point - the modern ruling class is losing their hold. not because anyone is taking it from them or anything - they're just getting weaker. they can't sway the public like they used to, can't start wars like they used to, nothing. even the coronavirus was supposed to be a massive earthshaker that caused the death of ~30% of the western population and ushered in le great reset, but it turned out to be just a big larp where all that happened was people fought about some dumb masks. insignificant, and that was supposed to be their trump card. speaking of trump cards, trump was supposed to be the trump card of the other side of the coin, and he was a flop too. both sides are crumbling. once the cow falls over who knows what will happen, but i don't see it being all that bad. maybe annoying and shitty but not some kind of /pol/ nightmare where the whole world turns into a mix between epstein island and a 10x more brutal south africa with chinese shenanigans mixed in. that stuff is on its way out.

>>18441910
>if i interpret everything to mean something other than was it actually says then it all comes out to sort of all being the same thing
>Read Marsilio Ficino or Giovanni Pico della Mirandola
why read two books when it should only require one? and what if i find parallels in these books that point to something other than what the authors intended? also, real perennialism has never been tried.
you're retarded and you don't know anything. read how to commit suicide for dummies.

[Anonymous No.18442035]

>>18442001
So what do you think of the man inside the earth who controls the world?

[Anonymous No.18442039]

>>18441883
>proved him wrong about Buddhism
Coomaraswamy didn’t prove Guenon wrong, he just assembled enough evidence that Guenon become open to the possibility that Buddha may have not actually been opposed to the doctrine of the Upanishads at all. If Coomaraswamy had truly “proved” it irrefutably then all or most Buddhists today would hold the same view, it having been proved, but this is far from being the case. Most modern scholars of Buddhist and Buddhist authorities in Asia alike disagree with Coomaraswamy’s analysis of Buddhism; they don’t agree that Coomaraswamy “proved” anything.

[Anonymous No.18442040]

>>18441946

[Anonymous No.18442047]

>>18442035
I believe it

[Anonymous No.18442048]

>>18442030
You are seething brother. Calm your spirits. Praise Guénon(Pbuh).

[Anonymous No.18442049]

>>18442012
i like how you've adjusted from 3 years of SHANKARA BTFO BUDDHISM SHANKARA REFUTED BUDDHISM to "Really Shankara barely cared about Buddhism, he just politely explained why they are wrong" in the span of one thread

does it have anything to do with when you endorsed this book >>18440083 which says guenon was somewhat ignorant of buddhism despite deriving most of his major ideas from it

[Anonymous No.18442050]

Guys, would you be interested to join a discord server based on the "Traditionalist School"? We don't have many members so fuck it, I will recruit from /lit/. I will post my discord id, send me friend request and we will talk there. I have to make sure that you aren't trolls. Sphinx#2471

[Anonymous No.18442061]

>>18442012
>Advaita was the first Vedanta school to coalesce into a formalized school with a systematic theology.
Ah so it wasn't some there-from-the-beginning situation after all. As I said, competitive religious landscape. Which also explains the accusations of mayavada being cryptobuddhism. This stuff has a genealogy you know.
>not really
Yes really. Dozens of pages of scholastic autism to prove that calling everything an illusion but also brahman at the same time isn't smuggled-in Buddhism.

[Anonymous No.18442063]

>>18442039
I just don't understand how Guenon could have been wrong about something he was so emphatic about.

[Anonymous No.18442068]

>>18440840
> Seraphim Rose
> perennialist

[Anonymous No.18442074]

>>18442030
trump is funny tho

[Anonymous No.18442085]

>>18442050
Accept the request.

[Anonymous No.18442108]

>>18442063
Its really easy. He wasn't wrong. He was lying.

[Anonymous No.18442110]

>>18442035
dude it's just a metaphor lmao. you're not smart enough to understand the significance of the short guy under tibet who controls the world. it's actually an allegory for how there's no differentiation between anything.

>>18442048
tis not I who doth seethe, mine bruder, but it is in fact thou who hath seethen in thine thread hencethou forthto. rejoice, friend. praise jordan peterson(i'mgay).
advaita is an ostrich sticking its head in the sand in attempt to reconcile voidism.

>>18442074
yeah but my point was that he's almost exactly what he appears to be on the surface. anything extra is the same as the pizzazz you get from a used car salesman, and the whole world bought into it.
>hey guys, buy this car from me. it's YUGE
and then everybody freaks out because he's such a good car salesman and some people think the car is one thing and others think the car is another. nobody realizes it's just a car. if i wanted to exaggerate i would say that trump probably doesn't even care about politics or current events at all. he just wants to sell the car.

[Anonymous No.18442126]

>>18441918
> Shankara just found a way to integrate Buddhism in India while preserving their unique Hindu heritage.
Advaitins reject this narrative, many Indians consider him to be a folk hero of Hinduism that helped drive Buddhism out of India while reviving Hinduism, just look at any article written about him by Indians in newspapers and many of them describe him that way.

>Today most Indians don't follow Shankara.
Because by default you can’t be initiated into traditional Advaita without being an ascetic monk, it’s exclusionary and not for the masses by design. With that being said though, one of the most popular Shaktist traditions in India with perhaps the most amount of followers is Sri Vidya, and the most important intellectual of that school (Bhāskararāya) praises Shankara and his disciple Suresvara and says that they are correct, Sri Vidya is basically a tantric form of Advaita designed for householders which has a greater following among the non-monastic masses.

[Anonymous No.18442135]

>>18441925
>Rama Coomaraswamy
I have not read his books yet but he seems like an intelligent and well-meaning person from his interviews on youtube

[Anonymous No.18442139]

>>18442126
>advaita reject this narrative
well yeah, obviously they would
>just look at any article written about him by Indians in newspapers
uhhhhhhhhh no thanks.

[Anonymous No.18442144]

>Rama Coomaraswamy
>Coomaraswamy
>Coomaras
>Coomar
>Cooma
>Coom

[Anonymous No.18442147]

Has anyone actually read this chad?

[Anonymous No.18442150]

What is tantra? Mechanically I mean, how does it work? Iv read several descriptions and I cant quite follow it, It doesnt seem any more than a specific form of mantra tradition

[Anonymous No.18442157]

>>18442126
>many Indians consider him to be a folk hero of Hinduism that helped drive Buddhism out of India while reviving Hinduism, just look at any article written about him by Indians in newspapers and many of them describe him that way.

That's what he said. It's a nationalist cope essentially.

[Anonymous No.18442164]

>>18442147
No, who is that white boomer LARPer?

[Anonymous No.18442188]

>>18442147
Oh, I know him. He initiated Michel Chodkiewicz into Sufism and Ibn Arabi, who then discovered that Ivan Agueli had translated a text by Balyani but falsely attributed it to Ibn Arabi.

So the drunkard Swedish painter "Sufi" Ivan Agueli who initiated Guenon into Sufism was actually literally mistaken about the doctrine of Ibn Arabi, which explains why Guenon so easily thought Sufism = Vedanta.

[Anonymous No.18442222]

>>18442188
We meet again... this time on this thread... hmmm..... Are you the same guy with the King of the World midget theory? You really try to refute Guenon from all parts?

[Anonymous No.18442232]

>>18442135
there's something about the sedes and ultra tradcaths that are incredibly based. might have to go wit that Tradition tbqhdesu

[Anonymous No.18442238]

>>18442049
>which says guenon was somewhat ignorant of buddhism despite deriving most of his major ideas from it
That book doesn't mention Guenon, and Shankara didn't derive most of his ideas from Buddhism but rather from the Upanishads. The way in which Advaita and Buddhism understand there to be multiple levels of existence is completely different.

>>18442061
>Ah so it wasn't some there-from-the-beginning situation after all
That's not necessarily true, just because it took a while to eventually coalesce into a school with a large body of systematic philosophical writings doesn't mean that people were not talking about it hundreds and hundreds of years earlier, there are so many texts lost to time we have no idea. Shankara mentions and cites the sentences and views of some 99 different Hindu writers who predated him throughout his writings, but basically all of them don't have any surviving works.
>. Dozens of pages of scholastic autism to prove that calling everything an illusion but also brahman at the same time isn't smuggled-in Buddhism
You're not being honest, Shankara regards things as illusory in a totally different way than Buddhism, and Buddhists engage in scholastic autism just as much if not more than Hinduism. Basically all of Tibetan Buddhism is scholastic autistic over emptiness. Buddhists on /lit/ seem to be largely incapable of being honest when discussing Shankara because he triggers them too much so they prefer to repeat pejoratives and strawmen instead of honestly engaging with his ideas.

[Anonymous No.18442239]

>>18442126
>many Indians consider him to be a folk hero of Hinduism that helped drive Buddhism out of India while reviving Hinduism
No they don't lmfao. Shankara today, as he has been historically, is looked down upon by Hindus as a nihilistic atheist and a crypto-Buddhist. At best you get the famous Pajeet practice of in detail explaining why ackshyuyually this guy was acktshyuuually just saying what this other guy was saying, which is why Shankara is considered by many Indians to be a principle scholar of Dvaita Vedanta (because you see he was actually just saying what Madhvacharya was saying).

[Anonymous No.18442261]

>>18442222
I'm worried that Guenon may have been wrong about Sufism, or at least badly initiated. Ivan Agueli taught Guenon about Sufism, and Guenon cites Agueli's translation of "The Unity of Being" in Man and His Becoming According to Vedanta. But Agueli had mistakenly attributed this text to Ibn Arabi.

I don't feel so good, Guenonbros...

[Anonymous No.18442278]

>>18442261
> "I do not mean that you are or possess this or that certain quality. I mean that you do not exist at all and that you never will exist, neither through yourself nor through Him, in Him or with Him … You will see that your exterior is His, that"

This is from the text that Ivan Agueli translated, but is not by Ibn Arabi and does not reflect his position. But one can see the marked similarities between this text and Shankara and why Guenon would have accepted it eagerly.

[Anonymous No.18442280]

>>18442239
>No they don't lmfao.
Yes they do, as all these articles written by Indians demonstrate, there are countless ones like these online just in English

>Adi Shankara, along with Madhava and Ramanuja, played an important role in the revival of Hinduism. They formed the doctrines that are followed by their respective sects to date. Three of them are considered the most powerful figures in the recent history of Hindu philosophy.
https://www.indiatoday.in/information/story/adi-shankaracharya-1233-birth-anniversary-date-time-and-significance-1802898-2021-05-15

>Jagadguru Adi Shankara Bhagavadpadacharya doesn’t need any introduction. At a time when Sanatana Dharma was being threatened by all kinds of negative forces, he resurrected, rejuvenated and brought about a renaissance to the spiritual soul of India.
https://swarajyamag.com/culture/long-read-sri-shankara-granthavali-the-rebirth-of-adi-shankara

>In his short life of 33 years, lived about 13 centuries ago, Adi Sankara mastered Sanskrit, researched the Vedas and Upanishads, wrote commentaries on them, developed a deep understanding of sanatana dharma, developed its essence, and communicated it in the form of his own distilled literature. He preached to a growing band of disciples, established mutts across India, and connected with tens of thousands of people through his wide travels.
https://www.thehindu.com/entertainment/music/adi-sankara-as-brilliant-poet/article34608710.ece

>As a poet, philosopher and preceptor par excellence, Adi Sankara’s name is synonymous with the Advaita Siddhanta he has firmly established in the spiritual tradition. Apart from his discerning bashyas to the Prastanatraya texts, he has composed many Prakarana granthas to instil faith and belief in this tradition at a time when people were confused by doubts about the validity of the Vedas and of the Supreme Brahman.
https://www.thehindu.com/society/faith/ineffable-grace-of-the-guru/article34755674.ece

>Jagad Guru Adi Shankaracharya, undoubtedly, is one of the greatest intellectuals and Vedic philosophers India has ever known. His contributions to Hinduism, in general, and his teachings on Advaita (non-dualism), upheld Hindu philosophy to be one of the greatest among the world religious thoughts. Shankara’s writings and interpretations of the Upanishad are unparalleled. https://www.americanbazaaronline.com/2019/10/05/adi-shankara-hinduisms-greatest-thinker-review-439002/

>Shankara’s philosophy is avowedly Vedic. Unlike Buddhists and Jains, he traced his knowledge to the Vedas and submitted to its impersonal authority, which made him a believer (astika). In his commentaries (bhasya) and monographs (prakarana), he repeatedly sought a formless divine (nirguna brahman) being the only reality, outside all binaries.
https://scroll.in/article/816610/how-adi-shankaracharya-united-a-fragmented-land-with-philosophy-poetry-and-pilgrimage

[Anonymous No.18442309]

>>18442238
>Shankara didn't derive most of his ideas from Buddhism
you are responding to several who have already said something that denies this, you can't just restate it. you're also responding to a book that you personally recommended, that contradicts it, in the post linked above yours. you also are in disagreement with almost all hindus and people who study the subject for more than a thousand years.

you don't even argue anymore, you just restate your position even when it makes no sense. the crypto-buddhism thing really broke you.

>>18442280
bhakti is overwhelmingly more popular than the theosophy 2.0 you and guenon are into, indians acknowledge shankara the way a modern person acknowledges martin luther as a great european cultural figure

you really were broken by /lit/

[Anonymous No.18442314]

>>18442261
Other scholars have viewed and written about Ibn Arabi as propounding Vedantic-like theories before, Guenon is hardly alone in holding that view. Moreover, the interpretation of Ibn Arabi among Sufi thinkers throughout history has differed greatly and they themselves disagree and argue with each other about what he really taught. Furthermore, Ibn Arabi isn't all of Sufism and there are famous Sufis who are even more explicitly closer to the Vedantic position (e.g. Shabestari) than he was.

[Anonymous No.18442324]

>>18442238
>Shankara regards things as illusory in a totally different way than Buddhism
Tacking god to the end of your argument is just theology
>Basically all of Tibetan Buddhism is scholastic autistic over emptiness.
More or less, and much like Shankara the Tibetan schools represent a very late genealogical development in the religion in question
>Buddhists on /lit/ seem to be largely incapable of being honest when discussing Shankara because he triggers them too much so they prefer to repeat pejoratives and strawmen instead of honestly engaging with his ideas.
There is no idea of his that was not broadly refuted in either the nikayas or mahayana sutras. If Tibetan scholasticism is bad enough to parse for an outsider, why would a Buddhist bother with indo-thomism if its axioms are unsupported? If Shankara is as little of an innovator as you claim, having reclaimed the original gist of the Upanishads rather than representing a later Buddhist influenced development in Indian thought, were his ideas not already 'retroactively refuted' by the Buddhists who did the brahmin breaking centuries before Shankara?

[Anonymous No.18442334]

>>18442280
>established mutts across India

[Anonymous No.18442342]

>tfw you realize the pizza guy falsely accused of being guenonfag went to prison, mastered kashmir shaivism, learned 10 times more than guenonfag knows about buddhism and advaita, served his jail time, got out of jail, rebuilt his life, joined a formal religious order, got married, had a child, and came back to /lit/ to shitpost, in the same span time it took guenonfag to do NOTHING

[Anonymous No.18442344]

>>18442030
>2030
That's the year gaston grogel speculated will be the end of the kali yuga.
>https://sufipathoflove.com/timeline-of-cycles-by-rene-guenon-and-gaston-georgel/
How much do you think of this is ture?
I think you underestimate them so much when in reality they are very very powerful. What's making them lose power in your opinion?
I don't think that elites marry niggers or mix with non royal bloodlines how can they be drinking their own koolaid?

[Anonymous No.18442348]

>>18442309
>you are responding to several who have already said something that denies this,
Yes, I'm familiar with the particular details of those allegations and can point out why they are wrong and have before, you don't even want to get into the details of the metaphysics but would rather just post screenshots of books, posture and make personal attacks. I challenge you to debate the details of why they are the same or different right now, but you're not even smart enough to do that.
>you're also responding to a book that you personally recommended
I like some sections of that book and disagree with others which I'm free to do so, what are you gunna do about it? sue me?
>you also are in disagreement with almost all hindus and people who study the subject for more than a thousand years.
Rene Guenon, AK Coomaraswamy, Chandradhar Sharma all disagree with that take. The Hindu thinkers who accuse Shankara of that all have a personal stake in the game whereby they personally benefit from doing so, they are not impartial, and in their works and arguments they show that they haven't read Shankara and they misunderstand him anyway.
>you don't even argue anymore,
That's what I'm doing right now
>the crypto-buddhism thing really broke you.
Not really, I still refute Buddhism and point out its contradictions in various threads and have been doing so for years, I'm part of the reason so many people here correctly view large swathes of Buddhism as nihilistic, because they see me debating Buddhists and they see I'm correct when the sophistic arguments of Buddhists crumble and fall apart.

[Anonymous No.18442368]

>>18442314
So it doesn't matter that his spiritual teacher in Sufism made a mistake like that, and that Guenon unknowingly repeated it?

[Anonymous No.18442393]

>>18442324
>Tacking god to the end of your argument is just theology
That's not what Shankara does you dumbass, he makes very different arguments than Buddhists, and he doesn't hide that he is a theologian anyways. If you aren't a soiboy cuck faggot nihilist then being a 'theologian' isn't something to be ashamed of to begin with.
>the Tibetan schools represent a very late genealogical development in the religion in question
The Indians Chandrakirti, Bhavya etc are very much the same scholastic autism, just one layer of commentary removed from the Tibetans.
>There is no idea of his that was not broadly refuted in either the nikayas or mahayana sutras.
Give one (1) example. In the last thread when someone tried to repeat Nagarjuna's argument against the Atman I explained why it was wrong and sophistic and the Buddhists in that thread gave up on even trying to pretend that his argument was right.
>why would a Buddhist bother with indo-thomism if its axioms are unsupported?
Because Shankara has dozens of arguments pointing out how Buddhism doesn't make sense and doesn't align with our experience.
>were his ideas not already 'retroactively refuted' by the Buddhists who did the brahmin breaking centuries before Shankara?
No, because the Buddhists before Shankara in their arguments don't provide any arguments against anything that resembles his doctrine, the Atman of the Nyanya's, Mimansakas etc is very different from the Advaitic Atman. During this period Advaita was more esoteric and word-of-mouth and was less formalized and it wasn't going around propagating and debating.

[Anonymous No.18442408]

>>18442368
Well, Guenon never claimed to be a master of Ibn Arabi's doctrine, so I don't see it as a big deal. Guenon later on in Egypt become the disciple of an Egyptian master of the very same Shadhiliya order which Guenon was initiated into earlier by Ivan, so presumably if Guenon had any misunderstanding that would have been an opportunity for them to be corrected by a true master of Sufi doctrine.

[Anonymous No.18442417]

> For want of any other term, we are obliged to designate all that is thus outside and beyond Being as "Non-Being", but for us this negative term is in no way synonym for 'nothingness'.

I never understood how Guenon got around this. He thinks he can reify Non-Being without it falling into the same problems as Being? Why does it get to not be 'nothingness' ?

[Anonymous No.18442420]

>>18442348
i hope for your sake your doublethink and pilpul are for the meme's sake and not real

>Rene Guenon, AK Coomaraswamy, Chandradhar Sharma
so on your side are a foreigner and former mason and theosophist, a buddhist, and pic related, who admits that mahayana "developed" advaita in ways not in the vedas themselves

[Anonymous No.18442423]

>>18442393
>being a 'theologian' isn't something to be ashamed of to begin with.
Coping with the void by inventing God seems like a shallow way to avoid nihilism.

[Anonymous No.18442424]

>>18442408
But shouldn't you be initiated by an actual spiritual master who has knowledge? On top of this, it seems Ivan Agueli was a lifelong alcoholic and possibly drug user. He died in strange circumstances, getting hit by a train, which may have been a suicide or just drunkeness.

Since when can you be initiated by someone who hasn't mastered the knowledge nor themselves?

[Anonymous No.18442426]

>>18442420
and against you is everybody else of note in indian history and the massive majority of the indian population who would see you as a theosophist

[Anonymous No.18442433]

>>18442420
W-We got too cocky. Why do more Indians than not think Shankara is crypto-Buddhism?

[Anonymous No.18442472]

>>18442417
>Why does it get to not be 'nothingness' ?
By non-being he is not talking about nothingness but he is talking about an expanse of unlimited possibilities which all exist virtually, simultaneously with each other, in an unmanifested state. Nothingness doesn't exist in Advaita Vedanta, the closest anything can get to nothingness is exist virtually within maya as an unmanifested possibility.
>doublethink and pilpul
I'm not doing either, again you're incapable of debating the actual details of how the doctrines are the same or not but you instead just post generalizations and make personal attacks.
> who admits that mahayana "developed" advaita in ways not in the vedas themselves
In that passage he is basically saying that Mahayana took ideas from the Upanishads, in his book "The Advaita Tradition in Indian Philosophy" C. Sharma clearly states that all the doctrines of Advaita are contained in the Upanishads.
>so on your side are a foreigner and former mason and theosophist,
Rene Guenon and Coomaraswamy could both read Sanskrit and I trust their judgment. Coomaraswamy wasn't a Buddhist and he was planning to become a Hindu sannyasin but was stopped because his heart gave out first.
>>18442423
>Coping with the void
There is no proof or evidence that everything is void so it's not a problem one needs to cope with.

[Anonymous No.18442479]

>>18442426
The other Vedantins are unironically just coping because Shankara’s Advaita is a straight forward reading of the Upanishads, they feel like they have to call him a Buddhist to delegitimize him to give their own system further legitimacy, but most of them didnt even understand Shankara’s position and it shows.

The primary Upanishads dont talk about grace and devotion at all, and they repeatedly say that rituals are a part of the lower knowledge and that they dont produce liberation (e.g. Mundaka Upanishad 1.2.20) Its not until the secondary texts like the Puranas, Gita, Pancharatra etc that a focus on bhakti emerges, the primary Upanishads are devoid of it. The text known as the Brahma Sutras which are the immediate consolidation of Upanishadic doctrine don’t contain the Sanskrit words for devotion or grace once in their entire text, but they do contain the word maya in verse 3.2.3. If bhakti and grace was essential to Vedanta they would be mentioned by name in the Brahma Sutra. Bhaskara’s comment that the Brahma Sutras dont say that the bondage of the Atman is a false appearance is contestable, according to Advaita the Brahma Sutras say that the individual soul is an appearance (of Brahman) only, which implies that it's existence as such as a delimited individual soul (as other than Brahman) is an deception or illusion, a mere appearance, this occurs in Brahma Sutra 2.3.50-51. which after a prior section talking about the soul says: “And (the individual soul is) an appearance (reflection) only. On account of the unseen principle being non-limitative.”

The nonsense allegation that Shankara agrees with Buddhism is part of the other Vedantins attempt to foster their non-Vedic doctrines derived from Pancharatra etc onto the Upanishads. Bhaskara’s comment that Advaita is subjective idealism just shows he has no idea what he is talking about. Shankara distinguishes his own ontological idealism which accepts the empirical reality of the world from the subjective idealism of the Buddhists which rejects it, Shankara refutes subjective idealism in his works. In Advaita the world appearance exists outside our individual perception and is sustained by Brahman so by definition it can’t be subjective idealism which refers to doctrines where the world doesn’t exist aside from it being crafted by the mind/ignorance of individual beings.

There isn’t any doctrine of Shankara accepted by Buddhists or vice-versa, even the way in which they both consider there to be multiple levels of existence is way different, for one thing Advaita unlike Buddhism admits that the absolute truth actually exists as a changeless, permanent, inexhaustible reality with its own svabhava. In the Isayeva quote she deceptively omits that in his magnum opus the Advaitin Sriharsa explicitly distinguishes Advaita from Buddhism by noting that Advaitins accept the absolute existence of consciousness while Buddhists dont which changes everything.

[Anonymous No.18442481]

>>18442472
>it's not a problem one needs to cope with
Yet here you are defending your baroque monument to fear of emptiness.

[Anonymous No.18442485]

>>18442426
>>18442479
Again, I wish you would debate the actual details but all you do is post the same screenshots of the same books over and over again even after I go through and explain point by point how all the claims made in them are wrong. You either are too stupid or are not knowledgeable enough about the topic to have a real debate on the details it seems.

[Anonymous No.18442488]

>>18442472
>but he is talking about an expanse of unlimited possibilities which all exist virtually, simultaneously with each other, in an unmanifested state.

How do I know this is real/true? It still doesn't answer the problem of why simply calling it unmanifested and no limits isn't itself a form of manifestation and limiting. You're talking it, so automatically you're limiting it and reifying it, if I hold to Shankara and Guenon's logic.

[Anonymous No.18442489]

>>18442481
See? You can't even be honest. You are incapable of actually debating the details so you just strawman about "muh emptiness", "muh void"

[Anonymous No.18442493]

>>18442479
>just coping because Shankara’s Advaita is a straight forward reading of the Upanishads
again stating a position that everybody in history disagrees with, which was the point we were just discussing. you seriously just revert now, you don't even try to slither around and twist things.

>The nonsense allegation that Shankara agrees with Buddhism
you mean like sharma thinks he does? and coomaraswamy too?

>There isn’t any doctrine of Shankara accepted by Buddhists or vice-versa
except the foundational and most central ones, according to everybody important who has ever written on the topic, including two authors you recommend as "the best" books on the topic

[Anonymous No.18442496]

>>18442485
I've seen you post the exact same copypasta a thousand times now. Why doesn't your critique apply to yourself? What makes you the exception?

[Anonymous No.18442499]

>>18442472
>In that passage he is basically saying that Mahayana took ideas from the Upanishads
No he isn't. He said they developed the ideas. Developing something means it wasn't developed to that degree yet. Do you know how to read?

[Anonymous No.18442507]

>>18442424
Can anyone answer this? Is initiation then just a cool LARP? Guenon's master for Sufism was obviously no master.

I read that the majority of Guenon's masonic superiors were initiated by "ghosts." What if the whole chain of Guenon's initiation is false or at least deeply flawed?

[Anonymous No.18442546]

>>18442488
>How do I know this is real/true?
To know that its what Advaita actually teaches you just have to read any book on Advaita Vedanta by an academic where they discuss how the cosmology works in detail and they'll say as much. Or you can just read Shankara and see that he only talks about things being manifest and unmanifested, he never says that nothingness exists or that things can become nothingness. The very notion of nothingness is mutually exclusive with there being an infinite all-pervasive God existing everywhere, if He exists everywhere then nothingness has no place anywhere for itself.
>It still doesn't answer the problem of why simply calling it unmanifested and no limits isn't itself a form of manifestation and limiting.
I don't see how that follows, simply stating that within Brahman's maya are contained unlimited particular possibilities doesn't itself impose a limit, because you are acknowledging that the range of possibilities exceed whatever limit you could place on them, you didn't explain why this would limit anything. Manifesting means in manifestation right now, as the universe or events within it. If something is unmanifest it's not part of the possibilities that are currently being manifested as the universe and the particular events within it, merely acknowledging that there are other possibilities existing virtually within the unmanifested maya is not the same as saying they are currently manifested right now within our universe, quite the opposite.

[Anonymous No.18442555]

>>18442507
>Is initiation then just a cool LARP?
Anon Guenon ran away to Egypt from India after he got told that he couldn't be initiated by virtue of being an Untouchable (as all non-Hindus are). Guenon's entire work was one of LARP. The Traditionalist Movement as a whole is about LARP. I mean for fuck's sake the man was promoting a union of Sufism, an obscure Hindu heresy, and fucking Freemasonry. He was just cobbling shit he found aesthetic together. There's nothing wrong with doing that with aesthetics but doing it with doctrines and teachings is not a serious intellectual endeavor.

At the end of the day, religion is about doing religion. You have to leave things like "initiation" and "transcendent spiritual principles" behind. Eventually you have to offer cattle to Zeus, or pray to Jesus, or meditate, or whatever it is that you're doing. Eventually, you have to cut through the spiritual materialism (there's a really good book on this, "Cutting Through Spiritual Materialism").

[Anonymous No.18442559]

>>18442489
But what IS there to debate here? God requires a system which supports him. There is nothing in experience which requires god. It was all there before the theological system was organized and projected onto it.

[Anonymous No.18442591]

>>18442493
>again stating a position that everybody in history disagrees with
Not everyone in history disagrees with that, I just named 3 people that don't. Stop lying.
>you mean like sharma thinks he does?
To my knowledge Sharma doesnt say that Shankara agrees with Buddhism, nor does Coomaraswamy, post the exact passage where they say "Shankara agrees with Buddhism" if you want to pretend otherwise.
>except the foundational and most central ones,
That's wrong and I'll explain why once more,

The levels of reality/existence in Mahayana and Advaita are totally different because Advaita actually admits that absolute reality exists as a real reality with its own eternal existence and its own self-nature (svabhava), while Madhyamaka denies this. This completely changes everything and results in the position that Advaita is an Absolutist ontology while Madhyamaka is relativist anti-foundationalism.

If there are any other areas where you think Advaita and Buddhism agree aside from the levels of reality, you can name those and I'll explain why those are fundamentally different as well.

>>18442499
Look at pic related, from Sharma's book "The Advaita Traditon"

Sharma writes here in this picture: Gaudapada (not Shankara) agrees with some Mahayana doctrines, because these HAVE BEEN BORROWED FROM THE UPANISHADS AND CANNOT BE SAID TO BE THE ORIGINAL CONTRIBUTION OF BUDDHA OR BUDDHISTS.

>>18442496
I actually get into the details and explain my argument for why said things are wrong, the Buddhists who say otherwise tend to only post the same screenshots of books over and over again without being able to debate the details, if you want to debate the details, then see the first part of this post.

[Anonymous No.18442594]

>>18442555
Wow...that's actually kind of pathetic. I can't shake off the idea that this is just a late 19th century/early 20th century trend in occultism.

I was very shocked when I learned that Guenon only followed a traditional order in 1930 when he went to Egypt. That means he spent at least 20 years just living like a syncretist theosophist of the age. The more I learn about his mistakes in interpretation and his faulty initiation the more I think he's exactly like Blavatsky and even falls prey to all the critiques Guenon himself makes of her movement.

[Anonymous No.18442604]

>>18442591
> the Buddhists who say otherwise tend to only post the same screenshots of books over and over again without being able to debate the details, if you want to debate the details, then see the first part of this post.

Did you see what you just did there? I hate to say it, but you retroactively refuted yourself.

I don't think I can see Guenon as anything by a niche theosophist syncretist anymore. It would have made for a fun LARP in 1920s France with your secret society buddies, but this isn't serious.

More people need to be careful with Guenon because is surrounded completely be Yes men who never dare to critique him.

[Anonymous No.18442608]

>>18442188
>>18442261
>>18442278
>>18442424
Agueli's plein air paintings are pleb tier
t. amatuer oil painter

[Anonymous No.18442619]

>>18442559
>But what IS there to debate here?
Whether Advaita agrees with Buddhism or not, whether Advaita is fundamentally opposed to Buddhism or not, whether Advaita contains the same teachings as Buddhism or not. I'm of the view that Advaita disagrees with Buddhism, is fundamentally opposed to it and doesn't contain the same teachings.
>God requires a system which supports him.
The claims of Buddhism also require a system which supports them and to explain why we are being reborn in samsara and how we can escape it etc
>There is nothing in experience which requires god.
I disagree, I think only God explains the existence of the universe, I think that an eternal universe doesn't make sense as an explanation because in my view truly eternal things don't change while our universe is characterized by change, and I consider the explanation of dependent origination to have been refuted by Shankara as well as things like the PSR, argument from contingency etc.

[Anonymous No.18442629]

>>18442594
>I can't shake off the idea that this is just a late 19th century/early 20th century trend in occultism.
Guenon plagiarized Blavatsky a few times. Hell, the entire reason that Advaita Vedanta is seen as "the philosophy of Hinduism" really just comes down to Advaita Vedantins making the move to cozy up with Theosophists in order to spread their doctrines. As this thread demonstrates, they were entirely correct, and now some Dutch autist is spamming Shankara's garbage on /lit/ instead of that of those of the far more interesting Ramanuja or those of the Madhvacharya (that can be far more easily reconciled with Western thought).

Realistically, if you look at this in the big picture, it's a long process of the West seeking to gobble up foreign Mystical traditions and rationalize them. Traditionalism itself is an incredibly Modern rationalizing doctrine. Blavatsky, although nominally Russian Orthodox, was deeply influenced by Protestantism and its theological rationalism.

[Anonymous No.18442631]

>>18442555
>Anon Guenon ran away to Egypt from India after he got told that he couldn't be initiated by virtue of being an Untouchable (as all non-Hindus are).
Double lies, Guenon never once traveled to India because the British never granted him a visa, and the initiations of both Sri Vaishnavism and Shaktist/Shaivite tantra are open to westerners and have been given to them before.

[Anonymous No.18442640]

>>18442594
>>18442629
Guenon's engagement with theosophy is likely underappreciated (or understated) by /trad/. Also consider his criticism on Bergson, related by marriage to prominent hermeticists. It is a very obvious genealogical connection to his own thought. One cannot be bothered to study and refute something without being affected by it.

[Anonymous No.18442642]

>>18442629
>now some Dutch autist
I'm not Dutch, I'm just a tall chad

[Anonymous No.18442646]

>>18442591
>HAVE BEEN BORROWED FROM THE UPANISHADS
Lmfao no they aren't. The Buddhas ideas on Karma alone are so radically different from what's found in the Upanishads that only an idiot unfamiliar with the basics of Indian thought would say this. This is to say nothing about Buddha-Nature or Diamond Body shit, which isn't found in the Upanishads, or Fazang's Rafter Memery, or multi-verses, or any of that other fun stuff.

How can the reality of chariots (as found in Buddhism) AND their unreality (as found in Advaita Vedanta) both come from the Upanishads? How can Karma be both a series of cosmic tally marks assigned by a divine scorekeeper (as found in the Upanishads) AND a disperses process of cause-and-effect with no outside judge (as found in Buddhism)? How can Atmans not be real (as per Buddhism) and be real as per Shankara?

You want to have your cake and eat it too, and you keep getting called out on it. The Buddha can't simultaneously be, as you claim, a devious innovator who created foul alterations to the Veads AND, as you claim, a time-traveling plagiariast who travels 1,100 years into the future to rip off Shankara.

This sort of thing is a testament not just to Shankara's incoherence and sophistry, but yours.

[Anonymous No.18442649]

>>18442604
>Did you see what you just did there? I hate to say it, but you retroactively refuted yourself.
I'm posting actual arguments regarding the details, the buddhists here or those arguing for their viewpoint have not done so yet

[Anonymous No.18442656]

>>18442619
>The claims of Buddhism also require a system which supports them and to explain why we are being reborn in samsara and how we can escape it etc
You can gut soteriology from Buddhism and be left with the pretty basic Heraclitan worldview. But if you subtract god from the theological systems they collapse entirely.

[Anonymous No.18442657]

>>18440045
I've read the essential works of Guénon, Neoplatonism and Catholic theology so I think I'm ready to tackle Jean Borella.
Where do I start with him?

[Anonymous No.18442663]

>>18442657
obviously 'Guenonian esoterism & Christian mystery'

[Anonymous No.18442664]

>>18442640
I think part of the problem is, of course, that /lit/ doesn't read, but also that there was a split between the Traditionalists (The One True Religion used to be and is fading) and the Perennialists (the One True Religion is yet to be and must be created). The general right-wing nature of /lit/ naturally leads to the complete rejection of the Perennialists, even though any actual investigation into Traditionalism reveals that ultimately they're engaging in the same mission, they're just far more pessimistic.

The fantasy of Guenon as the orientalist mystic writing obscure texts in a Sufi ashram, or of Evola as this mad fascist wizard engaged in black magic, is far more appealing than the actuality of what these men were doing.

[Anonymous No.18442666]

>>18442649
I've seen them post arguments. I don't think you have any self-awareness. You're doing exactly what you critique others of doing.

[Anonymous No.18442680]

>>18442646
>Lmfao no they aren't. The Buddhas ideas on Karma alone are so radically different from what's found in the Upanishads that only an idiot unfamiliar with the basics of Indian thought would say this
You don't even understand what he is talking about, Sharma in that page is not talking about all Buddhist-doctrines including basic stuff like karma, he is specifically talking about the areas where people (wrongfully) say that Advaita and Mahayana converge. Go read the book if you want to see the context where he mentions that.

Specifically, he is talking about the distinction between appearance and reality, the Upanishads already say there there is a non-dual Reality that via Its own power appears as a multiplicity, the Buddhists interpret appearance and reality differently by saying that the reality does not have its own existence with its own nature, that it's not an eternal existent whatever; insofar as they both acknowledge the distinction between appearances and non-appearances its similar but it's not at all the same thing.

>You want to have your cake and eat it too, and you keep getting called out on it.
I'm not, you just wrote an autistic post that totally misunderstood the context of the page you were replying to

[Anonymous No.18442694]

>>18442680
>(wrongfully) say that Advaita and Mahayana converge
So again, which is it? Now you're saying that they're radically different, but before you're saying that they're exactly the same because Nagarjuna traveled 300 years into the future to steal from Shankara.

So which is it? Make up your mind. No one takes you seriously because of this sophistry.

[Anonymous No.18442699]

>>18442666
>I've seen them post arguments
Show me one then, because I have not seen them aside from screenshots of books that I have already replied to and pointed out why they were wrong. Every time I have explained in detail how what Advaita and Buddhism teaches are different, the Buddhists have not put forward any argument in response showing that they actually are the same.

[Anonymous No.18442710]

>>18442699
>the Buddhists have not put forward any argument in response showing that they actually are the same
why would a buddhist do this? the buddhist position is that advaita vedanta is just a generic wrong view.

[Anonymous No.18442716]

who here wants to talk Dugin

[Anonymous No.18442731]

>>18442664
>the Traditionalists (The One True Religion used to be and is fading) and the Perennialists (the One True Religion is yet to be and must be created).
These are effectively the same thing, from a Pragmatist, i.e. uninvested, perspective. If TOTR is fading that means what exists are decaying copies, therefore it no longer exists, therefore it is to be (re)created. These views lead to the same end for the invested party, to bring about TOTR. On the other hand, there is a certain naivete to thinking it can be repeated and not then decay again. Which I think some of these people grasp in their notions of cyclical time, but not all of them really get what underlies cyclical time, why a creator is also a destructor, and so forth, and become highly attached to this idea of TOTR and identifying which "tradition" kept the most of as an afterimage. This then devolves into petty slave moralities, with the respective dialecticians not even aware that they've implicitly renounced the very mastery of values-creation that made the tradition-shades they are gasping at even possible.

[Anonymous No.18442733]

>>18442694
>So again, which is it? Now you're saying that they're radically different, but before you're saying that they're exactly the same because Nagarjuna traveled 300 years into the future to steal from Shankara.
No I'm not, stop being dishonest and stop with the strawmanning.

Sharma points out that Gaudapada partially agrees with Nagarjuna that there is a distinction between appearance and reality, because the Upanishads already make this point and so it's natural that someone rooted in the Upanishads like Gaudapada would agree. HOWEVER, this is not the whole picture and this is not a "doctrine that Advaita and Madhyamaka both share", because they specifically formulate it in completely different ways that have completely different consequences, which is explained here in this post >>18442680

For Advaita the absolute reality is an eternal, self-existent, ultimately existent real thing or entity. Madhyamaka denies this, ergo it's a different position.

Sharma it has to be mentioned here has a fringe interpretation of Nagarjuna that is disagreed with by almost all Buddhists where Sharma thinks that Nirvana is for Nagarjuna an eternal self-existent reality. I'm contrasting Advaita as Advaitins understand it with Nagarjuna as how Buddhists understand him, not Advaita with Nagarjuna according to how Sharma's fringe view understands him.

Do you see the difference? Or are you going to keep being dishonest and playing dumb?

[Anonymous No.18442736]

I DON'T CARE IF ADVAITA IS CRYPTO BUDDHISM OR WHATEVER SHIT YOU MIGHT CALL IT. I AM SICK OF THIS DISCUSSION IN EVERY FUCKING THREAD. DISCUSS SOMETHING INTERESTING I WANT TO LEARN SOMETHING LIKE THE PREVIOUS THREAD.

[Anonymous No.18442747]

>>18442710
>why would a buddhist do this?
Uhhh.... because they autistically spam that Advaita is crypto-Buddhism anytime someone posts about Shankara? I'm just challenging them to back up what they say. If the Buddhists weren't posting about that to begin with we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

If you don't want to debate that, then don't make such claims if you are not ready to debate it or if you're incapable of debating it.

[Anonymous No.18442749]

[Anonymous No.18442753]

>>18442710
Right it's just atman and ishvara which already got the "opinion discarded" treatment in the nikayas. So Shankara makes the atman equal ishvara; how can two unreal things have a relationship?

[Anonymous No.18442764]

>>18442749
Trumpism is guenonism with tweets

[Anonymous No.18442807]

>>18442716
>Dugin
an agent of chaos and counter initiation.

[Anonymous No.18442812]

>>18442807
how so?
he always talks about Guenon, Tradition, Evola, liberalism, and satanism

[Anonymous No.18442816]

>>18442753
> already got the "opinion discarded" treatment in the nikayas.
There isn't a single nikaya in which Buddha presents an argument that would refute a doctrine held to by Advaita, if you want to allege otherwise then post the argument used by Buddha in this thread.

And, yes I've already explained why the "chariot and Atman" argument Buddha uses is bullshit before, it's a false equivalency that uses the example of an inanimate non-conscious object to falsely imply that you can remove something's consciousness (Atman) without making a difference in that thing, thus purportedly rendering the Atman superfluous, but Buddha's argument fails and doesn't prove anything since chariots lack consciousness to begin with while living beings don't so it's a false equivalency.

>how can two unreal things have a relationship?
What do you mean? Brahman doesn't really have a relationship with anything, the unreal doesn't really have a relationship with the Real except to the extent that we imagine it to be so via ignorance. In His non-dual reality Brahman is unconnected with anything.

[Anonymous No.18442822]

>>18442747
the "advaita vedanta is crypto-buddhism" thing is a hindu position, it originates with hindus. buddhists on here just use it because it makes guenonfag seethe. theres no reason to treat advaita vedanta as special from a buddhist perspective because its just the trivial solution to the atman problem as it suggests that nothing is real but atman. but chariots and trees and stuff are obviously real so its complete incoherent and nonsensical.

[Anonymous No.18442827]

shoo! crypto-buddhists shoo!

[Anonymous No.18442830]

>>18442733
This sophistry doesn't answer the question. You have to pick one. Either the Buddha was a time-traveling plagiarist or not. Which is it?

[Anonymous No.18442833]

No one answered my question about Guenon's faulty initiation by Ivan Agueli into Sufism...

[Anonymous No.18442850]

>>18442736
Buddhism is fine, there is no need to be cryptic about it. It is the dishonesty that is the problem. Guenon didn't care about Hindus or Buddhists he only cared about gatekeeping and the money involved.

[Anonymous No.18442858]

>>18442816
>since chariots lack consciousness to begin with while living beings don't so it's a false equivalency.
Why would this matter? Shankara doesn't believe that consciousness does anything except Be because Atman=Brahman and Brahman does nothing except Be. Things that we Westerners attribute to "consciousness", like having thought, feelings, perceptions, cognition, etc are just illusions made of Nothing all the same as chariots and cows.

[Anonymous No.18442859]

>>18442833
how was it faulty tho

[Anonymous No.18442865]

>>18442812
He uses chaos magick to help bring down the apocalypse (the 8 pointed star in his movement is a symbol of chaos). There are also videos of him on youtube giving praise to a demon with dancer preforming satanic rituals at the same time.
Also see this series of videos by Upton deconstructing Dugin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivFvhMPfVHw

[Anonymous No.18442867]

>>18442822
>the "advaita vedanta is crypto-buddhism" thing is a hindu position, it originates with hindus.
I don't care why, I'm disputing the position itself, if people are unable to argue for it by debating on the details, they shouldn't say it.
>theres no reason to treat advaita vedanta as special from a buddhist perspective
Shankara refuted Buddhism and offer a more compelling explanation of consciousness, that's part of the reason Buddhism basically died out in India
> as it suggests that nothing is real but atman.
It says that the Atman is absolute real, and that other things are conditonally real as contingent appearances
>but chariots and trees and stuff are obviously real so its complete incoherent and nonsensical.
Wrong, Buddhists themselves deny that these things are absolutely real just as Advaita does, so you are being a dishonest hypocrite, Advaita doesn't deny that objects are empirically real, it just says they are not absolutely real in the sense of being eternal and unchanging.
>its complete incoherent and nonsensical.
No it's not, and as I just pointed out you either dont understand it or you are being dishonest

>>18442830
Which question? Advaita was already being taught by the Upanishads and Vedic sages before Buddha. Nobody really knows what Buddha taught, he may have stole Advaita from Vedic sages like Yajnavalkya or he may have been a faggot nihilist, who knows?

[Anonymous No.18442870]

>>18442865
>He uses ritual intention to help bring about the revelation
lol you say that like its a bad thing

[Anonymous No.18442880]

>>18442865
what I like about Dugin is how he merges geopolitics with tradition

[Anonymous No.18442883]

>>18442816
You misunderstand; from the Buddhist pov the atman and ishvara are not real. Thus Buddhist refutations of exact advaitin doctrines are going to be uncommon since those doctrines postdate most developments in Buddhism. But since advaita largely plays around with those two concepts already rejected by Buddhists, there is very little to argue further. No ishvara and no atman means brahman cannot equal atman. Those views are seen as untenable under Buddhist analysis, analysis you reject anyway since god is necessary to the proof of advaita and by making him unnecessary the Buddhists must be wrong about advaita.

[Anonymous No.18442885]

>>18442865
upton vids are such a snoozefest

[Anonymous No.18442887]

>>18442859
Ivan Agueli was poorly read in Sufism, misattributed texts he was translating, and still drank and did drugs. That's not a spiritual master.

There's no point having a teacher if they're gonna be amateur novices.

[Anonymous No.18442891]

>>18442833
Just because Ivan may have been mistaken about which text was by Ibn Arabi doesn't mean that the doctrine and methods he learned while he himself was initiated was wrong, or that the ones he passed on to Guenon were wrong. Guenon was also initiated in Taoism as well btw.

>>18442858
>Why would this matter?
It matters because you can't demonstrate that consciousness (Atman) is superfluous by talking about removing consciousness from a non-conscious object like a chariot, because it never had consciousness to begin with; so that doesn't actually demonstrate any point.
>Shankara doesn't believe that consciousness does anything except Be
Yes, but without the presence of consciousness the intellect and mind etc wouldn't function, since them occurring as appearances within consciousness is what allows them to be known. So if you remove consciousness there would be no knowledge of thoughts or sensations. The absence or presence of consciousness makes a very real difference for Advaita, and Buddha never provided an argument that refuted this.

[Anonymous No.18442892]

>>18442887
if Agueli was properly initiated (which he was) then you can't claim there is some faulty line of spiritual transmission.
guenon did drugs
so fucking what?

[Anonymous No.18442916]

>>18442891
>it never had consciousness to begin with; so that doesn't actually demonstrate any point
That's very Zen of you guenonfag. Was the conscious/non-conscious division itself a view to be overcome?

[Anonymous No.18442918]

>>18442663
aight thanks anon

[Anonymous No.18442920]

>>18442918
report back in a future /trad/ thread with your findings

[Anonymous No.18442928]

>>18442883
>Those views are seen as untenable under Buddhist analysis
The reasons for which they are seen as untenable by Buddhists don't apply to Advaita, they only apply to the Atmans of Vaisheshika, Mimansa, Nyaya, Samkhya etc, and the Isvara of Nyaya. That's the whole point, you are wrongly trying to imply that the Buddhist arguments against the Isvara and Atman of those schools shows that the Brahman and Atman of Advaita are wrong but they don't because it's a totally different concept. I dont get why this is so hard for you to understand.
>No ishvara and no atman means brahman cannot equal atman
No it doesn't because all the arguments the Buddhists provided fail against the Advaita explanation of those things, you can try to prove me wrong by bringing forth an argument and I'll easily point out why its wrong, as I have done with other Buddhist arguments before.

>since god is necessary to the proof of advaita
What do you mean? Advaita doesn't say that you can irrefutably prove the existence of God like Thomism does, they just say that logic indicates that all the alternative explanations for the universe aside from God are logically untenable.

[Anonymous No.18442933]

didnt guenon get 'initiated' 5 or 6 times and taught he was too polluted initiation wise to initiate someone. this magical buff is bs imo

[Anonymous No.18442957]

>>18442870
>>18442880
>traditionalist no
>geopolitician yes
He is not traditional and knows nothing about tradition, and just uses it as a spring board to promote his ideas. Listen to his talks you will notice too.
>what's wrong with using satan to achieve your goals
Everything.
>>18442885
Upton might sometimes (or most of the time) feel like a cringy boomer but he has a point. Dugin's whole purpose is to destroy the US without regards to anything else (the loss of lives or the possibility of alternative paths to bring about change), he doesn't hate "modernity" or "liberalism" he just hates the US because of its hegemonic power. If it was russia he wouldn't bat an eye. A pure russian supremacist nothing more.

[Anonymous No.18442982]

>>18442916
>That's very Zen of you guenonfag.
Thank you, you can also imagine it this way with a helpful analogy. Imagine if someone tried to demonstrate the superfluousness of walls in holding up the roof of a building, that is he tried to demonstrate that you don't actually need walls to hold up the roof of a building, and the example he gave was of an open air building without any walls or roof, just the floor and furniture. He wouldn't actually have demonstrated that you don't need walls to hold up a roof, because in his example there was no roof being held up by walls. In the same way Buddha failed to demonstrate that the Atman (consciousness) is superfluous because the example he gave was of a chariot that didn't have consciousness to begin with.
>Was the conscious/non-conscious division itself a view to be overcome?
Advaita doesn't say that you are supposed to pretend that inanimate objects have consciousness, when you realize the Atman and attain non-duality, you abide as non-dual consciousness, and the things that take place within that consciousness are known as ultimately unreal appearances that are contingent upon (you), they are contained within the expanse of (your) non-dual infinite presence.

[Anonymous No.18442983]

>>18442344
>>18442928
Don't let this be buried plz answer.
Will the world really end in 9/10 years?
You know french right?
How is Gaston Georgel?

[Anonymous No.18442994]

>>18442933
>taught he was too polluted initiation wise to initiate someone
No, I think he just didn't want to take disciples

[Anonymous No.18443020]

>>18442957
I agree with your assessment of Dugin

[Anonymous No.18443034]

>>18442983
>Don't let this be buried plz answer.
>Will the world really end in 9/10 years?
No, I don't think so

The ending of the entire day of Brahma when the universe is made unmanifest is not the same as the end of the Kali Yuga. There are 71 Yuga Cycles in a manvantara (age of Manu) and 1,000 Yuga Cycles in a day of Brahma, so the Kali Yuga will happen 1,000 times before the universe is dissolved and made unmanifest for a very long time before being manifested again. The end of the Kali Yuga would just correspond to significant cultural, intellectual, etc shifts and not the physical destruction of earth as I understand it. The Kali Yuga has happened and ended in this universe before.

>You know french right?
no
>How is Gaston Georgel?
never heard of him

[Anonymous No.18443045]

>>18442716
this guy is a counter initiation agent and everybody should know this.

[Anonymous No.18443060]

>>18442928
>they only apply to the Atmans of Vaisheshika, Mimansa, Nyaya, Samkhya etc, and the Isvara of Nyaya.
I would add as well that in addition to distinguishing its own Advaitic position on these topics from those schools, Advaita themselves offers arguments that refute the understanding of what Atman is by Nyaya, Mimansa, Vaisheshika etc and which refute the Nyaya Isvara as the ultimate source of everything.

[Anonymous No.18443061]

>>18442957
>>18443045
on his Trad Youth website, hating America is one of the requirements to be a member lmao
seething

[Anonymous No.18443082]

>>18442957
this guy is a counter initiation agent and everybody should know this.

[Anonymous No.18443088]

>>18443034
>The end of the Kali Yuga would just correspond to significant cultural, intellectual, etc shifts and not the physical destruction of earth
Isn't each Yuga followed by a flood or the sinking of continent or some kind of cataclysm?
Also, what happens when Brahma is 100 years old? Will he die? He's currently in his 50s right?

[Anonymous No.18443098]

>>18443061
i dont know what you are implying. i live in a third world hole and dugin is shilled in here by the worst types /pol/ useful idiots. he is completely anti-traditional

[Anonymous No.18443107]

>>18443098
i'm saying that this anon >>18442957 is right and Dugin just uses 'Traditionalism' as a means to destroy America because he seethes over their power

[Anonymous No.18443110]

>>18443082
>>18443061
Everyone is an agent of counter initation at this point, lol.
The only valid thing to do is Guenonian contemplation.

[Anonymous No.18443137]

>>18443110
Ride the Tiger (contemplation and prepping) until it's time to strike

[Anonymous No.18443143]

>>18443098
Let me guess, latin america? He has a huge reach there and even speaks spanish fluently, he is trying to infiltrate america's sphere of influence and seems to be having successful to some degree.
I don't particularly love america and think that they are doing the same thing with russia (and even way more aggressive), but he shouldn't veil that in traditionalism because it's pure and profane geopolitics nothing more.

[Anonymous No.18443154]

>>18443137
No. I prefer the Guenonian way. I will never do anything beside contemplating.

[Anonymous No.18443161]

>>18443088
>Isn't each Yuga followed by a flood or the sinking of continent or some kind of cataclysm?
Not that I'm aware of, I'm sure it's happened before and I know there is some connection in the myths, but I've never heard that it's an automatic thing that always happens every time. If a continent had sunk every time there wouldn't be any left by now. I'm not an expert on this topic but I study mainly the metaphysics and not cosmology.
>Also, what happens when Brahma is 100 years old? Will he die?
When the mahapralaya happens at the end of the 100 Brahma years Brahma attains liberation according to the Srimad Bhagavatam. According to Advaita Vedanta jivas can become anything from bugs to gods, and that in the next cycle of universal manifestation in the next day of Brahman which ever jiva earns enough merit during this cycle acquires the status of Brahma for that cycle and becomes the new Brahma.

>He's currently in his 50s right?
I have read that we are in the 51st year of Brahma

[Anonymous No.18443168]

>>18443161
*next day of Brahma

[Anonymous No.18443200]

>>18443143
yup. brazil. he did a lecture in the most 'prestigious' (for the academic establishment) university in here

[Anonymous No.18443215]

>>18443161
This seems very confusing desu.
Don't we all attain liberation by uniting with Brahman? How can it be that some humans attain liberation before the creator himself?
Do people worship Brahman or Brahma?
What's this all about? Is it a journey of self discovery for Brahman or does he not even know it himself?

[Anonymous No.18443222]

want to see some kino Schuon speaking italian?
https://youtu.be/YQsfHpguLZE?t=124

[Anonymous No.18443268]

>>18443200
>yup. brazil
Knew it. Whenever I search for his name on youtube a spanish and portuguese videos pop out, also his geopolitica .ru has lots of content dedicated to latin america.
>he did a lecture in the most 'prestigious' (for the academic establishment) university
I can bet that it wasn't about metaphysics or traditionalism or anything like this. And even if it was it can't be without his geopolitical "touch".
I don't really hate him or his movement I just think that it's a bit dishonest to veil it in the sacred. Or maybe because he believes that russians are hyperboreas whose sole mission is the eradication of the evil atlantean civilization.
link related: https://eurasianist-archive.com/2017/03/31/on-the-question-of-russian-runes

[Anonymous No.18443279]

>>18443222
based

[Anonymous No.18443280]

>>18443215
>This seems very confusing desu.
>Don't we all attain liberation by uniting with Brahman? How can it be that some humans attain liberation before the creator himself?
Brahma isn't Brahman, Brahma and humans alike "merge" into Brahman when they are liberated, although of course according to Advaita the Atman of Brahma and humans alike was actually merged with and identical with Brahman the whole time but that's getting into the metaphysics which is a whole other topic.

Brahma is the personage who Brahman in a sense "sub-contracts" out the creation of the world too, Brahma just "creates" the universe within the virtual-maya existence that is itself sustained by Brahman just as Brahma is himself sustained by Brahman's power maya, all of this only occurs because Brahman's power is allowing and causing it to happen.

>Do people worship Brahman or Brahma?
People can worship whatever they want, everything and all beings and gods are an appearance of the non-dual Brahman. Worshipping the appearance isn't the same as worshipping the source of the appearance itself, although from a certain perspective the source or author of the images can be considered as being glorified by the praise of His handiwork, like how Krishna says in the Gita everyone who worships God is actually worshipping him (under another aspect).
>What's this all about? Is it a journey of self discovery for Brahman or does he not even know it himself?
Other schools of Hinduism do posit something like that but Advaita says that Brahman always knows Himself, is always free and enlightened, and never forgets or lose His status as such or undergoes ignorance. So for Advaita it's only a journey for the contingent beings and not for Brahman.

[Anonymous No.18443288]

>>18443222
holy based...

[Anonymous No.18443289]

>>18443222
He had a phenomenal nose...
There must be an esoteric meaning behind big noses. lying and deception are obvious examples, there might be more.

[Anonymous No.18443297]

>>18443268
nah it was on geopolitics. he's advertised as supposedly being 'putin's guru' which attracts immature people

[Anonymous No.18443302]

>>18441797
>What does the vaccine have to do with this? Does it kill your spirituality? I fail to see it this way since how could all doctors conspire to develop something like this without anyone speaking out about it? Many of them are not consciously agents of counter initiation but are under the illusion of science and the task of "saving humanity".
>I think the vaccine and masks are mainly symbolic and/or some sort of ritual.

One thing that has struck me with the Corona stuff is that on the left you can see Aleister Crowley's personal seal called "Mark of the Beast" (33rd degree mason)

The seal symbol is described as Crowley "Sun and Moon conjoined"

Crowley describes it also the Secret Sigil of the Beast:
>And on his forehead, and on his heart, and in his hand, is the secret sigil of the Beast. (fn: Sun and moon conjoined)

It's just interesting to me that when Sun and Moon conjoin in nature during conjunction, the eclipse causes Corona to be seen

Again, I don't like some literal interpretations of the Revelation symbology, but considering the buy and sell aspect of the corona pandemic etc. it is the closest to a mark we have seen in recent history

[Anonymous No.18443322]

>>18443280
Thank you for responding to my simple lazy questions with detailed answers.
I feel unworthy of being spoonfed like this
Is there anything you would recommend that I read to have more knowledge on this?
Specifically that nature of Brahman himself.

[Anonymous No.18443352]

>>18443322
Wow!
443322
Also
4+4+3+3+2+2 = 18
You really ought stop being spoonfed on /lit/ anon and actually try reading for once. Take it as a sign.

[Anonymous No.18443354]

>>18440949
>Alice Bailey, one of chief masters of counter-initiation through Lucis Trust, said that the externalization of Hierarchy is said to occur in 2025.
i think i never heard of this guy before but it is not a secret the theosophical society already tried to groom a false prophet (or antichrist) in the figure of Jiddu Krishnamurti, who was to held the 'world teacher' role in their terms. i wonder what they are up to nowadays, if they give up etc. the point is: there are groups actively trying to bring the antichrist.

[Anonymous No.18443364]

>>18442982
>you realize the Atman and attain non-duality, you abide as non-dual consciousness, and the things that take place within that consciousness are known as ultimately unreal appearances that are contingent upon (you), they are contained within the expanse of (your) non-dual infinite presence.
I've said it before and I will say it again, this is extremely similar to Mahayana; the Vedantin just has to make it compliant with the Upanishads since Buddhism isn't.

[Anonymous No.18443378]

>>18443322
>Is there anything you would recommend that I read to have more knowledge on this?
>Specifically that nature of Brahman himself.
The best thing I can recommend for that is Adi Shankara's commentaries on the Upanishads, beginning with his shorter ones here (these two pdfs below have all of them except his Brihadaranyaka & Chandogya Upanishad commentaries, which are his longer and more difficult/dense Upanishad commentaries, you can also order these commentaries and others on Amazon or Vedanta.com

https://estudantedavedanta.net/Eight-Upanisads-Vol-1.pdf
https://estudantedavedanta.net/Eight-Upanisads-vol2.pdf

I would strongly recommend making sure to read Guenon's "Man and His Becoming According to the Vedanta" first before reading Shankara's commentaries, maybe even rereading it if you read it a long time ago and already forgot all the Sanskrit vocabulary he explains in it. There is a whole forest of terminology and concepts that you have to learn to fully understand Shankara's works, but when it all fits together like a jigsaw puzzle it's very rewarding, and just reading Guenon's book on Vedanta first will get you like 85-90% of the way there. After reading through most of Shankara's works I completely and permanently lost whatever fear I once had of death, among other benefits that I derived from reading them.

https://sufipathoflove.files.wordpress.com/2019/04/1925-man-and-his-becoming-according-to-the-vedc3a2nta.pdf

[Anonymous No.18443391]

>>18442035
>>18442047
>>18442110
>So what do you think of the man inside the earth who controls the world?

Has anyone even read "The King of the World"?
>>18441978
>There is no such thing said in the King of the World, that is why I ask you to quote it and you don't.

The King is a reference to Kalki lineage, even according to Guénon, considering the chapters of that book and the symbology of Priesthood and Kingship the said King is said to possess and his relation to the concept of Melchizedek.

Charles Upton in his article "Atlantis and Hyperborea" speculates this:
>So the Kalki of Shambhala would certainly seem to correspond in many ways to
Guénon’s Roi du Monde/King of the World – though the question of whether or not the lineage of the Kings of Shambhala still remains hidden in Central Asia on the human, historical plane, or
whether it has “ascended into occultation” in the alam al-mithal, remains extremely
difficult to answer

Of course there are Apocalyptic aspect to consider. When Kalki surfaces from the occultation/underground existence, he will most likely assume rulership on Earth and kill all the Buddhists and barbarians

>“Among the upa-puranas or sub Puranas, the Kalki Purana is most sacred and widely respected. At the end of Kali-yuga, the Supreme Lord, Hari, will incarnate as Lord Kalki and kill all the mlecchas, yavanas, atheists, and Buddhists of the world that defy the Vedic authority. The pastimes of Lord Kalki are subject matter of this literature, which is presented in story form. Exalted personalities can see everything, past, present, and future. For this reason, there is no fault in narrating these future events as if they had already occurred. The Kalki Purana consists of thirty-five chapters.” by Bhumipati Das in Introduction of book Sri Kalki Purana, Published by Jai Nitai Press

When the King of the World emerges, he will most certainly kill the Buddhists and even crypto-Buddhists. I personally don't understand how this is achieved and don't quite understand the pale horse of Kalki aspect, maybe it is a disease or something

[Anonymous No.18443398]

>>18443354
The Vaccine is already hailed as the Messiah all around the world:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5j23HjzxPtY

[Anonymous No.18443405]

>>18443364
>I've said it before and I will say it again, this is extremely similar to Mahayana;
So? That's not an argument showing that Advaita took anything from Buddhism, that's just stating that they are similar, which is a vague generalization that papers over the numerous differences.

Advaita admits that this Real in question has a transcendental and inexhaustible existence, that it's eternal and unchanging, lasting forever with its own undying self-nature/essence. Buddhism denies this which results in Buddhism having a totally different position. Advaitins also say that this Real is itself the non-dual consciousness in question, our own consciousness, while Buddhists tie themselves up in knots trying to say that consciousness is a transient aggregate while also somehow you can have non-dual consciousness and be conscious of it when your consciousness-aggregate is extinguished (???)

>the Vedantin just has to make it compliant with the Upanishads
It's already taught by the Upanishads, long before Buddha was even born. The Brihadaranyaka and Chandogya have chapters and chapters talking about this stuff.

[Anonymous No.18443408]

>>18443398
>>18443354

"His Holiness" the Dalai Lama Receives COVID-19 Vaccine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51ypzc5hqpc

[Anonymous No.18443416]

>>18443378
>Shankara
>beginning with his shorter ones
>I would strongly recommend

which means, retroactively of course
>>18443322
>>18443280
>>18443215
>>18443161
>>18443034
>>18442983

[Anonymous No.18443421]

>>18443302
>The seal symbol is described as Crowley "Sun and Moon conjoined
Kind of looks like the Monas Hieroglyphica of John Dee (if you remove some little bits), which also features the union of sun and moon.
>It's just interesting to me that when Sun and Moon conjoin in nature during conjunction
I read on the other thread about southern civilizations being lunar while northern ones are solar, could this symbolize a union and possible mixing between them?
I don't want to sound like a /pol/tard but this is how I see it
>it is the closest to a mark we have seen in recent history
My uncle took it and I am afraid for him, did he practically sell his soul? What do you think might be the effects of this?

[Anonymous No.18443428]

someone sum up king of the world for me and explain why i always think of pic in relation to it

[Anonymous No.18443433]

>>18443378
>https://estudantedavedanta.net/Eight-Upanisads-Vol-1.pdf
>https://estudantedavedanta.net/Eight-Upanisads-vol2.pdf
I printed them along with the bhagavad gita but upon opening the first page it felt like I am reading random words without any meaning (Isa Upanishad).
Do you have anything easier for an esl noob like me?

[Anonymous No.18443438]

>>18443421
>My uncle took it and I am afraid for him, did he practically sell his soul? What do you think might be the effects of this?

>>18441797
>What does the vaccine have to do with this? Does it kill your spirituality? I fail to see it this way since how could all doctors conspire to develop something like this without anyone speaking out about it?

First of all, how could something material kill that which is Spritual? It does not make sense

We can talk about the symbolism of the vaccine in context of Revelation.

First of all, the Mark is connected to the Beast of the Earth that is the Second Beast of Revelation, that is known as Beast of the Earth:
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beast_(Revelation)#Beast_from_the_Earth
>The second beast is primarily described in Revelation chapter thirteen. This second beast comes out of the earth whose overall appearance is not described, other than having "two horns like a lamb", and speaking "like a dragon".[4] His purpose is to promote the authority of the first beast with the ability to perform great signs, even making fire come down out of Heaven. This second beast is also called the false prophet.[5] He speaks like a dragon commanding the people of the Earth to make an image "to" the beast that was wounded by a sword. It is declared that anyone who does not worship the beast or its image would be killed.[6] The lamb-horned beast from the earth also causes all people to receive the mark of the beast "in their right hand or in their forehead."[7]

Some people associate "Beast From the Earth" as a creature known as Behemoth

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behemoth

Because the "Beast from the Sea" in Revelation is associated with Leviathan, the Sea Monster.

The word Behemoth (Beast from the Earth) is derived from the word Hebrew: בהמות (Behemah) and it is also the root word for:
>The Hebrew word behemoth has the same form as the plural of the Hebrew noun בהמה behemah meaning 'beast',

Behemah is also a word for cattle
https://biblehub.com/hebrew/929.htm
>behemah: a beast, animal, cattle
>Original Word: בְּהֵמָה

Similarily, the word "Vaccine" has etymological origins in cattle

In Qabalah, the ego shares the same value as Behemoth

To destroy and control large nations, their ego must be first broken and killed. They must be demoralized, they must be made cattle, a literal slave farm animals, and submitted to servitude of that similar to farm animals

To impose total control you must first destroy the individual ego through humiliation (masking etc.) and then the larger cattle can be controlled too (nationwide scale).

I don't think the Vaccines are anything, but an attempt at cure for Coronavirus, it is the system they are implementing (Green Pass/Green Dragon) and the whole cattle type of existence for the goyim cattle that leaves no room for spiritual or anything higher.

The System of Antichrist.

[Anonymous No.18443443]

>>18443428
King of the World is Kalki and Kalki will destroy all Buddhists and even crypto-Buddhists

[Anonymous No.18443445]

Buddhism is part of the perennial metaphysical truth too, we are all welcome under the big tent brother. With their ideas of Tathagatagarbha, Buddha-nature, Mahavairocana and similar concepts as being the true nature of the mind as"suchness-awareness" or as existing virtually inside everyone already and similar teachings, the Mahayana and Tantrist Buddhists managed to realize the transcendental Self that the Buddha pointed to via apophatism, and in doing so restored the true essence of Buddhism which is a continuation of the Upanishadic teachings. Some people having been trapped into egoistic delusions may be upset at hearing this, but I offer them my boundless Buddha-compassion.

[Anonymous No.18443459]

>>18443391
This sounds extremely similar to the hidden imam of the shiites (mahdi) who will come at the end times to do all what you just described.

[Anonymous No.18443460]

What do you guys think of Marsilio Ficino's prisca theologia? I find it hard to balance an openness to esoteric and hermetic history, excluded by secular scholarship, with the critical rigor of scholarship. Obviously we can't be completely credulous about the claims of every tradition.

[Anonymous No.18443471]

>>18443459
The Bottom Line of King of the World is that this figure embodies both KINGSHIP AND PRIESTHOOD in a single person

He is a Brahmakshatriya, but he confers both authority of the Brahmins and Kshatriya castes

So in essence, he is nothing more than Primordial King/Ruler of Primordial Tradition.

It is to my understanding that he cannot appear in Kali Yuga, for his appearance itself would mean a return to Primordial Tradition, that of Satya Yuga

[Anonymous No.18443481]

>>18443433
>but upon opening the first page it felt like I am reading random words without any meaning (Isa Upanishad).
If you have already read Guenon's book on Vedanta first you should already know most or many of those words. You can also just try to keep reading and taking notes and it may start to gradually make sense sooner than you anticipate, I didn't understand it at first either but I just kept reading until I pieced it together hermeneutically. Lastly, you may find it easier to start with the Katha Upanishad commentary first instead of the Isa Upanishad, it's also in the first PDF.

>Do you have anything easier for an esl noob like me?
These below are shorter intro texts but none of them convey the same depth of understanding as Shankara's commentaries

https://realization.org/p/ashtavakra-gita/richards.ashtavakra-gita/richards.ashtavakra-gita.html
https://www.stillnessspeaks.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/ShankaraAtmaBodha.pdf
https://estudantedavedanta.net/Avadhuta%20Gita%20%20Swami%20Chetanananda.pdf

[Anonymous No.18443503]

>>18443459
>>18443471
I haven't seen others speculate on this, but in my opinion, the Kalki incarnation will be in Hinduism the double figure known as Harihara

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harihara

According to Upton:
>Kalki’s “heraldic” colors, will be red and white

And Guénon also speculates these colors if I remember correctly.

It is also interesting to note that while Shiva in this picture is displayed in blue skin, it is his Destructive aspect as Hara (Hara means Destroyer in Sanskrit) when he is Red and even the word Rudra (of which Hara is also a name of) shares certain etymological considerations with

Again, this is just my own symbological speculation, but this Harihara figures as Vishnu the Preserver and Shiva the Destroyer is also the ebodiment of Kalki as Shankaranarayana / Brahmanarayana

Shiva decipted here blue-skinned is a bit symbologically wrong, considering that in Rudra/Hara and his fierce manifestation of Shiva he is Red and this will be also Kalki's function. To destroy so that the Dharma may be preserved.

[Anonymous No.18443530]

>>18443438
This is a huge blackpill to swallow.
It was actually better to think of it as a way to sterilize or reduce the population.
Why do you think israel is the one of the first countries to rush with vaccinating its citizens?
Wouldn't these people want to be the last ones to be called cattle and humiliate themselves?
>Behemah
In islam there will appear a certain "creature" at the end times which will place a white mark on the believers and a dark one on the disbelievers. Tafsir books differ widely on this matter.

[Anonymous No.18443536]

>>18443481
Thank you anon. I will start with this. Seems easier
>https://estudantedavedanta.net/Avadhuta%20Gita%20%20Swami%20Chetanananda.pdf

[Anonymous No.18443546]

>>18441727

It is a Hindu nationalist talking points that all the Indic religions are mere extensions of the Upanishads. In fact we know almost nothing about the development of these traditions during the second urbanization period in the Gangetic plain ca. 500BC, other than that they overlapped and had mutual influences. Scholarly consensus actually views sramanical culture as an imposition on the older brahmanical priesthood, which was focused in the Northwest in this period and only one voice among many. The Upanishads developed alongside and in reaction to Jainism and Buddhism, and vice versa, and we're then assimilated into neo-brahmanism, and even that wasn't formalized into anything like "Hinduism" until the Guptas. Truly India was a fascinating place at this time. It's a shame we don't have better sources.

Of course, if you are a more dogmatic Hindu and simply believe your religious texts come before all others, that is your right. But it is not the majority view or the experts' view. Either way, you are correct that it need not distract from studying perennialism. Only uneducated bhaktis on the internet insist on the primacy of the Vedas anyway, because they associated it with "Hindu identity."

The real identify and pride of India is the fascinating philosophical ferment it produced, so that when Shankara founded a new sort of Hinduism by synthesizing Mahayana philosophy and asceticism with a new non-dualist reading of the Upanishads, it not only caught on, but inspired equally vigorous dualist and qualified non-dualist readings (probably more in accordance with the early brahmanical philosophy).

[Anonymous No.18443560]

>>18443530
>Why do you think israel is the one of the first countries to rush with vaccinating its citizens?

Well, I don't think of anything. From a strictly biological standpoint (and if we can believe the news that the vaccines are even somewhat effective) it might be a good thing for herd immunity. Maybe /pol/ is better place to talk about the biological aspect of vaccines

All I know is that the Israeli nation was the first to coin the term "Green Pass", meaning Green Light (as in traffic) and you could enter all shops, mass events, etc. after you had the pass (which required vaccination)

And it was just interesting to note that the literal word for Green Pass in Hebrew sounds extremely similar to the word Dragon, because the Israeli word for passport is דרכון = DRKVN = Dragon. Even Israeli news media makes jokes about "Green Dragon", that is a little Anglo-Israeli play on words for the Green Pass.

>In islam there will appear a certain "creature" at the end times which will place a white mark on the believers and a dark one on the disbelievers. Tafsir books differ widely on this matter.

Beast of the Earth exists in Islamic eschatology under the figure of دَابَّة الأَرْض Dābbat al-Arḍ
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beast_of_the_Earth

And it is also a sign of the Last Days

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beast_of_the_Earth

[Anonymous No.18443592]

>>18443503
>All I know is that the Israeli nation was the first to coin the term "Green Pass", meaning Green Light (as in traffic) and you could enter all shops, mass events, etc. after you had the pass (which required vaccination)
I believe you especially after watching the ad on youtube and noticing this myself. But I just thought jews cared about their kind or something and didn't want to be reduced to cattle like the goys.
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beast_of_the_Earth
>Beast will be one of the first signs of the Last Day, along with the sun rising in the west
What do you think about the sun rising in the west? Will there be an awakening? isn't it too late? I want to believe.

[Anonymous No.18443597]

>>18443536
No problem anon, best of luck. If you read all three of those intro texts, which can be done in a day or two, you will have an easier time with his commentaries.

Here is an explanation of the first page of his Isa commentary btw, just as an example of how it makes sense

>The (Vedic) mantras (verse) beginning with Isavasyam have not been utilised in karma (rituals etc) for they serve to reveal the true nature of the Self, which is not an appendage to karma.
Here, he is saying that unlike the Vedic passages explaining how to perform Vedic rituals, the Upanishads (in this case the Isa) don't have any connection with karma, but they simply reveal the true nature of the Atman (Self).

>The real nature of the Self consists in Its purity, sinlessness, oneness, eternity, incorporeity, omnipresence, etc. which will be indicated later one (Is. 8).
He is is saying the real nature of the Atman, which the Upanishad and other Upanishads reveal, is exactly as how he describes it

>As that (nature) would conflict with karma, it is but natural that the verses are not applied to karma; for neither is the Self in Its real nature, as defined, a thing to be created, transformed, achieved, or purified, nor is It of the nature of an agent or enjoyer, whereby It could become a factor in karma.
Here he says that since the Atman (Self) is pure, sinless, eternal, omnipresent, the verses that reveal the nature of the Atman have no connection with karma, because karma and ceremonies presupposes a multiplicity of actors engaging in actions using means to pursue ends and receiving the resulting fruits thereof, but the omnipresent Self that isn't an agent doesn't engage in action and thus has no connection with karma that is acquired from actions and rituals

>Moreover, all the Upanishads exhaust themselves simply by determining the true nature of the Self...
this part is obivous

>Accordingly, all karmas have been enjoined by assuming such qualities for the Self as multiplicity, agentship, enjoyership, etc and impurity, sinfulness, etc which common sense takes for granted
here he says that the Vedic passages enjoining the performance of Vedic rites (spoken of figuratively by that which they produce, i.e. karma) is for people who are not ready for knowledge of the true nature of the Self, and who following common sense take their self to be an agent that enjoys and sins amidst a multiplicity of actions, means and ends, so because of this they take the Vedic passages dealing with rites+karma as applying to themselves because they don't know the omnipresent sinless Self which the passages are inapplicable to

and so on

[Anonymous No.18443604]

>>18443592 Meant for >>18443560

[Anonymous No.18443608]

>>18443546
>The Upanishads developed alongside and in reaction to Jainism and Buddhism
The oldest, largest and most important Upanishads predate both Buddhism and Jainism

>so that when Shankara founded a new sort of Hinduism by synthesizing Mahayana philosophy and asceticism with a new non-dualist reading of the Upanishads,
nonsense, Shankara rejected every aspect of Buddhism

[Anonymous No.18443625]

>>18443503
Nice catch.
Do you know which Upton book is that?

[Anonymous No.18443631]

>>18443592
>What do you think about the sun rising in the west? Will there be an awakening?

I am not sure what you mean. The obvious meaning of “from the West” in an Egyptian context would be/mean Sun rising “from the House of the Dead”.

Have you seen the counter-initiatic short film "I Pet Goat II"?

In the last scene when the Horus-figure exists the icy womb he sees Sun rising and next to the sun is the symbological figure of Scorpio in the Clouds (Scorpio, for example in the Hermetic tarot is associated with the ATU XVIII of "Death" and Scorpion itself is assoicated with Death)

I don't know what you mean by awakening, but maybe some sort of mass initiation ritual of killing the Ego (literally called Behemoth in Hebrew) and being born again in the NWO system.

America is also in a more counter-cultural manner known as the "House of the Sun" at least in pop culture
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Fy7opKu46c

I don't know, maybe some stupid goyim shit cattle in America are going through some mass initiation in their fucked up counter-initiatic psyche and living the Via Dolorosa of George Floyd and now cannot themselves breathe while wearing the cuckmuzzle in their day to day activities. I CAN'T BREATHE! I CAN'T BREATHE!

It all seems very sick to me, but I may be biased because I've spent too much time on internet.

[Anonymous No.18443640]

>>18443597
I somewhat understand better now.
Might be easier if we had your commentary on this text (which is a commentary on another text) haha.

[Anonymous No.18443642]

>>18443625
>Do you know which Upton book is that?

It is an article called "Atlantis and Hyperborea" by Charles Upton

I don't know is it released in some book

[Anonymous No.18443644]

>>18443625
Guénon also talks of the significance of Red and White colors, but I sadly cannot remember which book this is. It might have been The Esoterism of Dante, but I am honestly not sure.

[Anonymous No.18443648]

>>18443644
>>18443625
The bottom line of Guénon, if I remember correctly, was the the White corresponds to Priestly Caste (like the robes of Druids were said to be white) and the Red refers to Kshatriya heraldry symbology.

[Anonymous No.18443709]

>>18443631
I was thinking in terms of the west becoming a source of spiritual knowledge like the east always was (the sun always raises from the east). Maybe a day will come when it raises from the west and the solar tradition is back.
>I Pet Goat II
Just went and saw it now. Can't say I understood everything but it had plenty of symbolism which I recognized. But I can't connect everything together especially with Jesus and the trembling church at the end
>maybe some stupid goyim shit cattle in America are going through some mass initiation
I agree with you on this. America is a defacto a jewish slave country now, ever since they implemented the fed they were doomed.
I was just hoping that Europe could have a chance.

[Anonymous No.18443718]

>>18443503
>An alternative etymology suggested by Prof. Pischel interprets Rudra as the 'red one', the 'brilliant one', possibly derived from a lost root rud-, 'red'

I also noticed that while listening some of the people in fervor chanting the Hare Krishna mantra:

Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa
Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare
Hare Rāma Hare Rāma
Rāma Rāma Hare Hare

It sometimes assumes that they seem to be saying the word "HARA" instead of Hare

>Hearken to that which all Shrutis (the Vedas) keep secret and hidden, through which one may cross the Saṃsāra (mundane existence) of Kali. He shakes off (the evil effects of) Kali through the mere uttering of the name of Lord Narayana, who is the primeval Purusha.

So it is interesting to note that when repeated many times enough, the mantra also assumes (maybe through error) as if they were invoking the name of HARA, the fierce manifestation of Shiva as Rudra.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harihara

[Anonymous No.18443743]

>>18443709
>I agree with you on this. America is a defacto a jewish slave country now, ever since they implemented the fed they were doomed.

United States is a Masonic experience through and through. the United States of America has no ethno-nationalist identity. It was absolutely never meant to be that way. It was literally meant to be a giant Masonic experiment. Closest thing to any cohesive culture is that cohesion provided by Freemasonry and their stated ideals such as fraternity, equality, faith, hope, and charity, etc. and this is obvious even today. Of course such "high and lofty" ideals degenerate to something abominable such as LGBT rights and mutilation of the human gender.

America is a Masonic experiment of trying to create "Atlantis" (Literally means West Island) in a new world.

We all know what happened to Atlantis.

The "Black Magicians" of Atlantis being nothing more than a metaphor for the Negroid races and primitive black magicians (of which Guénon talks the voodoo people being a literal vestiges of)

The Rap music is now the de-facto most popular music in America and the Negroid worship is also apparent (think of George Floyd's death, buried in a golden casket and the mystery schools where it says "Osiris is a Black God")

C.G Jung's observations concerning America:
>Another thing that struck me [in the American] was the great influence of the Negro, a psychological influence naturally, not due to the mixing of blood. The emotional way an American expresses himself, especially the way he laughs, can best be studied in the illustrated supplements of the American papers; the inimitable Teddy Roosevelt laugh is found in its primordial form in the American Negro. The peculiar walk with loose joints, or the swinging of the hips so frequently observed in Americans, also comes from the Negro.[3] American music draws its main inspiration from the Negro, and so does the dance. The expression of religious feeling, the revival meetings, the Holy Rollers and other abnormalities are strongly influenced by the Negro. The vivacity of the average American, which shows itself not only at baseball games but quite particularly in his extraordinary love of talking – the ceaseless gabble of American papers is an eloquent example of this – is scarcely to be derived from his Germanic forefathers, but is far more like the chattering of a Negro village.

Julius Evola also observed:

>“In a civilization where equality is the standard, where differences are not linked, where promiscuity is in favor, where the ancient idea of “being true to oneself’ means nothing anymore—in such a splintered and materialistic society, it is clear that this phenomenon of regression and homosexuality should be particularly welcome, and therefore it is in no way a surprise to see the alarming increase in homosexuality and the “third sex” in the latest “democratic” period, or an increase in sex changes to an extent unparalleled in other eras.”

[Anonymous No.18443765]

>>18443709
>Jesus and the trembling church at the end
baka. watch it again.

[Anonymous No.18443774]

I'm reading this, my second Lings, after Muhammad, as well as listening to his recorded lectures on Shakespeare posted here: https://www.themathesontrust.org/martin-lings-talks..

[Anonymous No.18443798]

>>18443718
Maybe if you lived in India and knew the language and were part of the tradition you could find out.

[Anonymous No.18443819]

How do you explain radical changes of personality observed in people with severe brain trauma in light of the idea of an eternal unchanging soul? Is the brain just a receiver that more or less garbles the reception of the soul? Then where does this soul reside?

[Anonymous No.18443831]

>>18443743
This is sadly ture.
The way I also see it with the lation invasion is the return to the natural order of things. Each land has it's own people (part of them in a way) and you can't go into a land like this without disrupting an equilibrium which will eventually have to come to a more stable state over time.
I once watched someone compare rap culture with shamanism.
The George Floyd stuff is unreal man I know. He is almost considered a saint!
What do you think about dissidents, why aren't they under the same spell of negroid worship? Sure there are some people in America unhappy with the situation.

[Anonymous No.18443853]

>>18443831
I am now taking a soothing morning walk in European summer weather, cannot reply in length as I am phoneposting

Hope the Negroid-Atlantic symbolism discussion continues in another thread

[Anonymous No.18443883]

>>18443798
Why would anyone want to live in a shithole like India?

[Anonymous No.18443900]

>>18440347
>https://www.soulask.com/sacred-geography-seven-towers-of-satan/
Fuck this is really cool, never heard of these before

Any enterprising french anons care to translate the aforementioned works? Would be a cool project.

[Anonymous No.18443910]

>>18443883
So you can read it in the original German.

[Anonymous No.18443944]

>>18443853
Enjoy the walk. See you in the next thread.

[Anonymous No.18443966]

>>18440135
You were wrong. It was amazing.

[Anonymous No.18443987]

>>18443944
I Will deal with the Negroid Messiah symbolism in detail as you speculated it might be connected to Krishnamurti ( it is heavily through East Star organization of Beasant )there is lots of research material and essays to be referenced, it Will be lengthy and May shed some Light on this George Floyd masonism symbolism and the American "fate"

[Anonymous No.18444005]

>>18443987
>Krishnamurti
I am not the same anon but I think that it will turn out great. Can't wait.

[Anonymous No.18444113]

>>18444005
I will also try my best shed Light on this Seven Towers speculation as I have read the book in detail.

People to forget that Guenon suspected the main counter-initiatic centre to be in California/America

The Seven Towers of Sudan and sorcerers associated with Big Dipper reference the Catasthtope of Atlantis

But Jean Marc Allemand never understood the survivors of ATLA in the myth of Pleiades Who are the Seven Daughters of Atla and how they relate to American counter-initiative activities

The Big Dipper concerns The Fall in History, bbutthe Pleiaides current events as they are the daughters and heir of ATLA

[Anonymous No.18444343]

>>18444113
Very interesting!
Do you plan on doing it at any particular time?
I want to be there live.

[Anonymous No.18444357]

>>18444343
Honestly feel a bit perplexed and what's the point since no one has even read the René Guénon et les sept tours du diable.

I mean I will be writing some of it if someone makes a new general but already feeling a bit bored of this whole subject

[Anonymous No.18444433]

>>18444357
>no one has even read the René Guénon et les sept tours du diable
I can't (and I am sure many others) read french which is making me feel miss out on lots of stuff related to Guenon and french occult circles
I will try learning it in the future but It's not realistic that I will reach the level of understanding Guenon in his original language.
>I mean I will be writing some of it if someone makes a new general
Why don't you make a blog or something to record your posts? Or better write a book about it and have it published.

[Anonymous No.18444443]

>>18444433
>>18444433
I wrote a book of this same subject last year relating to the Big Dipper, Stooping Dragon and Golden Dawn it had like 50,000 words written on it with several chapters

But I got burnt out after 2 weeks it was in the editing phase and I deleted all of it from my computer the files, all of it and was depressed for few months /burnt out after it.

[Anonymous No.18444449]

>>18444443
>>18444357
I also had a rough translation of the René Guénon et les sept tours du diable into English but also deleted it all

[Anonymous No.18444460]

>>18444449
>I wrote a book of this same subject last year relating to the Big Dipper, Stooping Dragon and Golden Dawn it had like 50,000 words written on it with several chapters
>I also had a rough translation of the René Guénon et les sept tours du diable into English but also deleted it all
WTF why?
Maybe it was some sort of spirit acting unto you. This stuff shouldn't be published perhaps?

[Anonymous No.18444468]

>>18444460
Because at the best it is only speculative

I felt frustrated because I cannot connect the dots myself, there are grey ares in my understanding, like black holes, to make a coherent narrative

It leaves too much questions to be asked and it makes me paranoid of the sources I use and who is counter-initiatory and who is not

When it comes Green Dragon, I had to reference French sources, BUT, I also had to read the Yrjö von Grönhagen diaries who worked for SS Ahnenerbe and who also talks of the Green Dragon in his book Himmlerin Salaseura.

Then the account given in The Morning of the Magicians (French: Le Matin des magiciens) of the Green Dragon is in direct contradiction with the account given by Teddy Legrand

I think they are disinformation, but sometimes I feel it has truth to it. I cannot make neutral study of the subject it seems as if the material is intentionally in a manner that is supposed to lead one astray

[Anonymous No.18444498]

>>18444468
>Because at the best it is only speculative
I don't think that there is a problem with that.
I believe that you might be leading into something with the green dragon symbolism, especially with the vaccine ad.
> read the Yrjö von Grönhagen diaries who worked for SS Ahnenerbe and who also talks of the Green Dragon in his book Himmlerin Salaseura.
Wow! I will try reading one of those sometime in the future.
Don't let it dishearten you, maybe you'll know all the connections at the right time.

[Anonymous No.18444516]

>>18444498
Books should be able to educate reader, not to confuse them further.

The best way to lay down all their research would be similar in structure to this site

www.ordoabchao.ca

This is a great research page, but the author uses dubious sources. The Green Dragon is also mentioned in these pages in this passage https://ordoabchao.ca/volume-three/shangrila
> Tibet inspired the Nazis to send several expeditions in search of their Aryan ancestors, and to make contact with a mysterious organization known as the Society of the Green Dragon. Born in 1869, Haushofer had been a military attaché in the German Embassy at Tokyo. Travelling extensively throughout the Far East, he studied oriental philosophy, and while in Japan became initiated into one of the most arcane Buddhist secret societies, Society of the Green Dragon.

But this is ridiculous disinformation rubbish

>According to Hess, Haushofer was “the magician, the secret master” of the Thule group.

As is this. Thule Group was not even real if you read the Grönhagen diaries (sadly, it has not been translated to English)

There was only the Wiligut inner circle which is historical of whom Himmler and Hess were both part of

[Anonymous No.18444523]

>>18444468
>Yrjö von Grönhagen diaries
where did you find that? are you finnish?

[Anonymous No.18444525]

>>18444516
Wiligut designed this Black Sun symbol too which was adopted by Nazi occultists later

But even Grönhagen tells that he was a total, alcoholic mad man pervert and his mansion was visited the most deranged sorcerers and occultists possible

[Anonymous No.18444535]

>>18444523
I bought this very same 1948 edition from ebay

[Anonymous No.18444543]

>>18444516
>Haushofer became initiated into one of the most arcane Buddhist secret societies, Society of the Green Dragon.
Haushofer the father of geopolitics!
I am a polsci degree and never knew this wtf!!

[Anonymous No.18444554]

>>18444535
I can't find it anywhere. This is a part of history. if you don't mind please scan it.

[Anonymous No.18444559]

>>18444554
Only book I could find was Finnische Gespräche. Ordered it.

[Anonymous No.18444560]

>>18444543
>arcane Buddhist secret societies, Society of the Green Dragon.

This is exactly the fucking problem I have with this subject

All the sources are in DIRECT contradiction

Sometimes it is a TIBETAN BLACK LODGE OF GREEN DRAGON

Sometimes it is a MONGOLIAN GREEN DRAGON

Sometimes it is a CHINESE BLACK DRAGON sub-section called GREEN DRAGON

Then sometimes it is JAPANESE

Then sometimes like the Grönhagen sources say that the Green Dragon's base is in Sweden
that helped to orchestrate the Russian Revolution in the early 1900s

All the sources, different books that even mention in are in total contradiction and in the end you don't even have no fucking idea what it is

Then there is the Green Dragon Tavern that was also base for Revolutionary activities in America

The more you study/learn about the subject the more confused you end up, I think it is intentional

Like chasing Dragons

[Anonymous No.18444561]

>>18444444

[Anonymous No.18444567]

>>18442887
Why am I not surprised that the anti-guenonfag doesn't know how sufi tariqas work? Yes, Guenon was initiated by Ivan Agueli but he was NOT his Shaykh. Agueli's initiation which passed to Guenon was from Elish El-Kebir, who was a very important Shaykh at that time and had connections with many europeans, he was also a mason. So he is Guenon's Shaykh, to whom Guenon dedicated his book "The Symbolism of the Cross". Also, Guenon had acces to many translation made by Valsan of Ibn Arabi works, and he probably also read him in original, there are more than 50 arabic books in his home library so there must be some Ibn Arabi. Guenon also knew Shaykh Salama Radi(pic related) and he participated in dhikr invocations with him(also knew him from a vision back in France but I am not going to talk about that now). I hope that this is the last time when I will see you repeating this stuff, if not, it means that you are a troll and I will simply ignore you.

[Anonymous No.18444569]

>>18444560
>Green Dragon's base is in Sweden
Fug :DDDDDD
real life skyrim when?

[Anonymous No.18444574]

PLEASE SOMEONE BAKE A NEW BREAD!!!

[Anonymous No.18444587]

>>18444554
>>18444554
>>18444559

The only relevance to Teddy Legrand in the Yrjö Grönhagen version of 1948 is this

If you look closely, the Swastika is cut up in to 8 parts to signify the Seven Heads of the Green Dragon

But the Eight Head is the Stooping Dragon.
https://coronzon.com/choronzon.htm
>The Fall is reproduced showing an eight-headed dragon/serpent

In Golden Dawn symbolism you can see the Eight Headed Dragon, it is said that it is the "leader" of the Seven or the intelligence of it

The text on that pic related page reads the same as on this page:
>https://www.newdawnmagazine.com/articles/behold-the-green-dragon-the-myth-reality-of-an-asian-secret-society

>n the book, brother spies Nobody and Legrand are inspired by their common curiosity about the fate of the Russian Imperial family. The chief object of fascination is an icon on St. Seraphim, supposedly found on the Tsarina Alexandra’s body, which bears a puzzling inscription, in English: “S.I.M.P. The Green Dragon. You were absolutely right. Too late.”25 They quickly determine that the first element, which is accompanied by a six point “kabbalistic” symbol, stands for “Superieur Inconnu, Maitre Philippe” [Unknown Superior, Master Philippe], a French Martinist mystic who was an early guru to the Tsarina Alexandra.26 They also note the Tsarina’s predilection for the “Tibetan” Swastika as a good luck symbol. The rest of the story follows the duo’s efforts to discover who or what constitutes the Green Dragon.

Philipe Was Guénon's mentor

Also it is interesting that in the newer versions of this book the Swastika is not cut into eight parts, only the old 1948 show this small detail (I have reissues of this book)

[Anonymous No.18444614]

>>18444587
I will be busy reading all of these articles today. Thanks for the great info anon!
I am sure you will connect all the dots one day.

[Anonymous No.18444620]

>>18444587
This is also interesting:

>French occultist Gérard Encausse (aka 'Papus') co-wrote a series of articles in the interbellum denouncing a large financial syndicate, who was behind most recent troubles in France (starting with the Dreyfuss affair) and in Russia. According to him, behind every conflict, hidden agents made these conflicts unavoidable. He mentions the part the Freemasons had in the French revolution, but also the Jesuits and the Carbonari in other conflicts. Every time a small group tries to achieve total domination. At the dawn of the 20th century, power was expressed in gold; as such a secret financial syndicate tried to get its hands on most of the gold reserve in the world. Allegedly, both France and Russia opposed these goals, hence both nations were attacked until they weakened. For Papus, the centre of this organisation was in London, while important branches operated from Germany.

Considering the role of Green Dragon Tavern in the American revolutionary activities and the finance of Russian Revolution and perhaps even the Nazi revolution

[Anonymous No.18444722]

>>18444567
But he never had contract with those people until 20 years after his initiation, and after having written many books stating his thoughts on Sufism. This means his main source of information on Sufism, and the supposed benefits from initiation, came from an amateur novice only, Ivan Agueli.

>there are more than 50 arabic books in his home library so there must be some Ibn Arabi.

It Guenon's library there were hardly any texts by Ibn Arabi and on Islam in general.

[Anonymous No.18444758]

>>18444614
>I am sure you will connect all the dots one day.

One conclusion, that is not strictly historical, but rather a symbolical one and what I have gathered from all of this symbolical and counter-initiative activities relating to the Green Dragon and Stooping Dragon is that these groups, persons were either deliberately to "activate" The Enochian Apocalypse of John Dee, or this was some sick synchronity, or perhaps both, and this thing was both put into action through Theosophy (like Guénon explores in Theosophy: History of a Pseudo-Religion) and through Hermetic organizations such as the Golden Dawn through their continental Rosicrucian lineages

And this Enochian Apocalypse is still playing out even today in certain world events and this Apocalypse was set in motion through the eightfold Swastika set to revolve to another direction (like the one in the form of Nazi party) while it remained inactive in the other direction as that of protecting the Dharma/Benevolent Swastika like seen in this direction >>18444587

[Anonymous No.18444822]

>>18444758
After searching 4plebs archives, it seems someone has come to exact conclusion as I over 7 years ago on /pol/ (And I can assure you, this is not me posting)

https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/31640758/#31643914

>They'll tell you some bullshit like: "oh it's just an allegory where the candidate himself IS the temple and he uses the 'tools' of freemasonry like truth, philosophy and morality to make himself a better man for the spirit of God to dwell in!"

>and that's TRUE... to a point, but their goal is seriously to make this happen.

>If you want to go /x/, this is not just an earthly thing... it goes much deeper. for example, the original Agent 007, queen Elizabeth's court mage and astrologer Dr. John Dee did a ritual over the course of 8 YEARS... wherein he communicated with extradimensional intelligences (angels), and received the system of Enochian language. The purpose of them giving mankind this system is to "Bring about the coming of the Apocalypse." His "Order of Unknown Philosophers" later branched out into the Rosicrucian Order and from there... Freemasonry.

>Google and youtube "The Temple Institute" in Jerusalem and take a look at their sponsors and board of directors, you'll shit bricks.

Of course that post is a bit dumped down version, but I honestly think this hits close to home when it comes to my speculation to Green Dragon

[Anonymous No.18444939]

>>18444722
>It Guenon's library there were hardly any texts by Ibn Arabi and on Islam in general.
There were at least 50 as I said, considering the fact that Ibn Arabi was his biggest islamic influence, there must be something from him.
>This means his main source of information on Sufism, and the supposed benefits from initiation, came from an amateur novice only, Ivan Agueli.
After he moved to Egypt he made much more islamic references in his books and he didn't changed his views on Vedanta.

[Anonymous No.18444993]

>>18444939
>There were at least 50 as I said, considering the fact that Ibn Arabi was his biggest islamic influence, there must be something from him.

Then you should be able to show it.

>After he moved to Egypt he made much more islamic references in his books and he didn't changed his views on Vedanta.

There's still hardly any references to Islam and the Quran. It's all Vedanta and some scholasticism.

[Anonymous No.18445019]

>>18443743
>the United States of America has no ethno-nationalist identity
this is nonsense

[Anonymous No.18445025]

>>18444993
>There's still hardly any references to Islam and the Quran. It's all Vedanta and some scholasticism.
Not at all, his two books on initiation are full of islamic references. There are also some in Reign of Quantity.
>Then you should be able to show it.
I don't have access to his library and you don't have either, you can't prove that he didn't read him.

[Anonymous No.18445039]

>>18445019
Good argument

[Anonymous No.18445049]

>>18445039
it's clear that you are not american and the glimpses of America you see are through the globohomo media lense.
sure, ethno-nationalist identity is at an all time low compared to 100 years ago, but it still exists in some circles.

[Anonymous No.18445089]

NEW
>NEW
NEW
>>18445086
>>18445086
>>18445086

[Anonymous No.18445115]

>>18445025
>I don't have access to his library and you don't have either, you can't prove that he didn't read him.

Are you a child?