Just finished reading Foucault

[Anonymous No.18495533]

What I learned from discipline and punish is that modern society forces us to live like subhumans, not by accident but for the purpose of making us docile and easy to manipulate. Living in a small community comes with the benefit of everyone knowing each other and having some level of respect for other humans. In modern society people are strangers and are more familiar with giant nameless institutions than they are with the occupants of their apartment complex that they live in. This is dystopian in nature and causes us to live in a society where human life is devalued as we can no longer relate to the people around us and begin to see them as fundamentally different.

This leads to a culture of indifference where individuals die as a result of systemic problems in society and we ignore it because one life isn't as important when they are lost in a sea of millions of individuals, none of whom we have any relation to. The efficiency of enormous, nameless faceless institutions becomes more important than the livelihood of individual human beings, and this allows atrocities to occur in society that harm and kill innocent people without accountability, and without even being noticed.

Instead of fighting back against injustice and improving society, the modern human lives in a small apartment, has barely any money, has no connection to other human beings, is surrounded by strangers in a society that doesn't value human life. And has absolutely no power to fight back or change the operation of the enormous, all encompassing institutions that govern their daily life. In such a society they become docile. passive. They realize the futility of fighting for anything, and they learn to accept that human life has no value, while the only truly important thing in existence are large corporations, the government and various institutions, whose needs always take priority before the rights or happiness of individuals. In such a state, the modern human becomes incredibly easy to manipulate, as they give up their power, their freedoms, and their rights, and is always susceptible to manipulation as they no longer have the will to fight back.

What do you think /lit/... am I reading too much into it??

[Anonymous No.18496179]

That makes sense to me brother

[Anonymous No.18497021]

why doesn't /lit/ like foucault? I don't know that much about his personal life but his works seem p interesting to me. maybe I should just read greek philosophy from now on...?

[Anonymous No.18497092]

>>18495533
So he was just pointing out that society has a negative aspect?

[Anonymous No.18497096]

We live in a society

[Anonymous No.18497098]

>>18497021
Too much gut reaction from many here instead of taking a look at what the man himself had to say.

[Anonymous No.18497100]

>>18495533
Based Foucault reader. Seems like a good supplement to Ellul

[Anonymous No.18497178]

>>18497098
Care to sum up maybe one of his more important notions?

[Anonymous No.18497210]

>>18497021
seconding what >>18497098 said

[Anonymous No.18497223]

>>18497092
Not really, rather that was my main takeaway after reading "Discipline and Punish" and contemplating it's contents for a few months.

Foucault was more focused on discussing structures of power, and I think he was using a prison as a sort of proto-typical example of how people are controlled by disciplining and monitoring them. Especially by monitoring, because according to Foucault this is a key part of the system of discipline. He contrasts this with how power was exercised in the past, which was much more confrontational and hostile in a sense because people would simply be executed for a serious offence. However, in the new system he says power is exercised by a large institution by basically placing people into a system that disciplines them and makes them docile.

He says that the main components of a system of ""discipline"" are that people are placed on a strict, regimented time schedule each day. They are monitored constantly and given ranks in a hierarchy, where they are judged based off of their work and can be either promoted or demoted based on how well they do their job. This system of discipline is exemplified by the panopticon prison but he says it could also be utilized by other institutions like a school or hospital.

[Anonymous No.18497253]

>>18497021

cos he was a gay pedo. but also because most people don't know how to read philosophy; they think it's a bunch of 'answers' and that you have to agree with every conclusion the author makes, instead of realising it's more a bunch of 'questions', and you have the ability to recognise the legitimacy of the critiques they formulate ask while still coming to your own conclusions.
no matter where you come from politically, discipline and punish provides and excellent description of the difference between the authoritarian hard power of traditional systems, and the totalitarian soft power of (neo)liberalism.

[Anonymous No.18497259]

>>18497253
You're just a think-fag. Real men want answers.

[Anonymous No.18497264]

>>18497021

cos he was a gay pedo. but also because most people don't know how to read philosophy; they think it's a bunch of 'answers' and that you have to agree with every conclusion the author makes, instead of realising it's more a bunch of 'questions', and that you're allowed to recognise the legitimacy of the critiques they formulate while still coming to your own conclusions.
no matter where you come from politically, discipline and punish provides and excellent description of the difference between the authoritarian hard power of traditional systems, and the totalitarian soft power of (neo)liberalism.

[Anonymous No.18497279]

>>18497259

real men have their own answers. my point is that if you only listen to the 'questions' of your own camp, and dismiss the critiques of people that aren't certified BADEDNREDPILD, you'll never know if there's whole spheres of thought you've never considered. plus you're automatically a worse debater, because you don't know how to speak to your opposition in their own language.

[Anonymous No.18497282]

>>18497264
To be fair, Foucault is the only polo I respect because he still had some pretense of actual inquiry.

His disciples, and most notably his American disciples are insufferable barbarians who know nothing of intellect and just seek to destroy what they see as evil dogmatically.

[Anonymous No.18497286]

>>18497279
>real men care to debate
Lelno

[Anonymous No.18497293]

>>18497286

literally what is the point of political philosophy if you don't engage in some kind of discourse, whether actual debate or metapolitical action?
what are you gonna tell me you're an actual politician, or a siege honeypot member or something?

[Anonymous No.18497300]

>>18497293
Discourse implies the other viewpoint might have any merit whatsoever, which is a form of cucking.

[Anonymous No.18497308]

>>18497293
>literally what is the point of political philosophy
There is no point. Debates are just simulated fights. Only weak men and women like to debate, because that's the only way they can win and feel strong.

[Anonymous No.18497327]

>>18497300

ok so again, what's even the point of reading political philosophy then? just the autism of knowing about something you're never gonna put into action?

and everyone knows literal 'debates' are never in good faith now, the point is to BTFO them regardless in front of other people, some of which may be too dumb to understand what's being said but know what it looks like when someone's btfo'd, and some of which may still think everything is in good faith.

[Anonymous No.18497334]

>>18497308

>There is no point

ok then stop wasting your time and read something else

[Anonymous No.18497340]

>>18497327
There's other types of action you know. You can just preach, like a certain Austrian used to do in beer halls.

[Anonymous No.18497343]

>>18495533
>faucault said cities are too crowded and that's dystopian or something

To be fair ''dystopian'' to Foucault means not being able to have public homosexual sex with children and spread HIV freely.

Let's not forget he argued that age of consent laws need to be removed because they constrain the freedom of children to consent to sex with adults.

[Anonymous No.18497358]

>>18497343
>faucault said cities are too crowded and that's dystopian or something

This was just what my mind conjured up after thinking about foucault's book for a long time and how it relates to modern society. Foucault's actual views weren't the opinions expressed in the OP. just want to clarify that

[Anonymous No.18497490]

>>18497021
'cause he's a untermenschen Nietzsche reader who revels in his own filth

[Anonymous No.18497497]

>>18497358
This is the problem with Foucault and other postmodernists right here, that any sort of original thought will arbitrarily tie back into their autistic masturbatory wank-stain of a worldview in one form or another.

[Anonymous No.18497515]

>>18495533
>injustice
>improving society
Foucault was a pedophile first and foremost, and any reading of him must fundamentally take this into account. He was a perverted extreme homosexual that sought any excuse to justify himself. With that out of the way his whole synopsis is just rendered absurd (as he was himself).

Scale has nothing at all to do with it. The difference is in cultural outlook. The difference between the "city" in the minds of people. Take the Athenians to the Pekings or Calcuttas. Rome is another example that demonstrates the marked differences between the views. Foucault wanted the bug life for mankind and most of his sycophants do too. They justify mass govt. surveillance etc cancel culture, and other dystopian fundamentals to "improve society". Your basis is rooted in your own dystopian visions of total social control and manipulation. You aren't mad at society because you're "alienated", you're mad at society because you can't control it and purge wrongthinkers.

[Anonymous No.18497520]

>>18497021
Foucault was an extreme homosexual pedophile that wanted harems of children to molest. His entire philosophy stems from this.

[Anonymous No.18497527]

>>18495533
Yeah OP I'm sure you feel really close to your 2nd cousins that you'd pick up a rifle and fight to the death for their existence. You don't know what you're talking about, go back to watching CP you thinly veiled NONCE.

[Anonymous No.18497536]

will it chock you if I tell you zero historians take discipline and punishment seriously these days?
it was a book popular because it was convinient of that time, just like lysenko of his

[Anonymous No.18497557]

>an entire book written about how its mean that there laws that protect young boys from being sexually raped by pedo's like Foucault
His thesis stems from his own sickness and perversions. We live in arguably the least disciplined time in human history with 0 accountability for anyone. According to Foucault, we are run by "discipliners". This fucking moron would have been rightfully thrown off the Tarpeian Rock in Rome during times when there was such a thing as accountability for ones actions and words. He's a fraud who just wanted to rape and abuse children.

[Anonymous No.18497565]

[Anonymous No.18497571]

>>18497021
> he fell for the sentinel meme

[Anonymous No.18497612]

>>18497536
Isn't foucault taught in sociology courses still?
>>18497520
>>18497527
Simply filtered, I don't know what else to say.
>>18497515
But I thought Foucault specifically said that he doesn't advocate for anything one way or another, he just published it as a sort of analysis of power (im paraphrasing his words). Either way, how does foucault or his followers justify mass govt. surveillance or cancel culture in any way. If anything, foucault's ideas about biopower are worth reading in order to understand the methods by which social control is created. The question in my mind shouldn't be whether foucault was right in his political opinions, but rather are the concepts put forth in his books worth understanding at all. I think they are worth thinking about even if I don't necessarily agree with the author's point of view when it comes to politics.
>>18497557
Maybe it isn't about what society is currently. it's about the kind of society we are moving towards in the future. You can't deny that the modern era has brought all kinds of new technology that is having strange negative effects on society. People no longer need to leave their house in order to work, go to school and socialize with people. It's easier than ever to invade people's privacy, learn where they are, track their every movement, and have all their information without them knowing it. Corporations literally treat people like shit, ruin the climate, ruin the economy, are corrupt as hell and get away with it because there is no accountability. The whole point of discipline and punish is that you can punish people by taking away their freedom as opposed to executing or torturing them. And that this is accomplished by putting them into a system where they have no power. Monitoring people and taking away their choice to do what they want with their time, forcing them to be productive every hour of the day, making the environment they live in disciplinary by nature, all of this is oppressive and is supposed to make the subjects of such a system powerless, and passive.

Modern society isn't worse than previous ones in history, in fact we live much better lives than our ancestors did. However that doesn't mean it can't improve. If we aren't careful we could live in a dystopian society one day that is far worse than anything that came before it. Anyways, this is why it's important to at least learn the concepts, even if you don't agree with the actual authors opinions. Because if I DIDN'T read the book I never would have thought about any of this stuff. At the very least you could say that foucault's ideology is thought-provoking. As for the pedo shit, I'm not sure if that's true but if it is who cares. he's dead, and that stuff literally isn't related to his philosophical ideas whatsoever.

[Anonymous No.18497624]

>>18497612
>taught in sociology
doesn't mean anything considering the state of the humanites

[Anonymous No.18497671]

>>18497612
>in fact we live much better lives than our ancestors did
Strongly disagree with this statement by leaps and bounds. What you mean to say is that the mass of people live at a higher level than the mass of people in antiquity. However, we fail glaringly in most other cases beyond simple economic conditions. Our food supply is totally and completely poisoned, ideologists are taking over every aspect of our existence, etc etc.
>methods by which social control is created
Which were based on completely false methods to begin with. Again, the entire point of Foucault's writing was to justify pedophilia. As soon as you understand his motivation for writing, it all becomes rather obvious and why he is considered no better than Lysenko. Of course, he still has an army of sycophants who push for the critical theory deconstructionism of all human existence that he so terribly wanted in order to justify raping and molesting young boys.

[Anonymous No.18497679]

>>18495533

The opening of the third paragraph hit close to home, but then I remembered that I'm a nihilist so that helped.

[Anonymous No.18497684]

>>18497343
>>18497490
>>18497497
>>18497515
>>18497520
>>18497527
>>18497536
>>18497557
seethe and dilate

[Anonymous No.18497689]

>>18497612
>Isn't foucault taught in sociology courses still?
Yes because sociology is a pseudo-science like everything Foucault wrote. The whole purpose is to weaponize deconstructionism against people who want to build meaning and thereby control them. Foucault's ramblings on "discipline" are thinly veiled disguises to hijack the means of power in order to subvert people into becoming listless subservient slaves to a cabal of pedophiles.

[Anonymous No.18497731]

>>18497671
>However, we fail glaringly in most other cases beyond simple economic conditions.
Subjective, don't care

[Anonymous No.18497738]

>>18497731
>Subjective, don't care
You deny the poisoned food supply? The pollution of sound, environment, loss of forest and clean air and water? Loss of connect to nature? Loss of individual freedom (granted, it never existed in the Orient) and constant surveillance state? You could I suppose believe these to be positive, and most Foucault readers do.

[Traianus No.18497745]

>>18495533
Nice. If you say these things nowadays you're immediately labeled as a "conspiracy theorist". Funny that a leftypol idol said exactly what current leftists don't want to hear.

[Anonymous No.18497778]

>>18497738
Pollution exists, but is being combated and is an acceptable cost for the material benefit.

"Connection to nature" don't care about this babble

Individuals have more freedom than ever before, not many people in 1100s Europe had the freedom of flying to the US, the range of occupations, or to disseminate their opinion around the world.

Surveillance exists and the government could probably find out what porn I like, so what?

Oh how I wish I could be an Amazonian hunter gatherer, the last true bastion of freedom and quality of life!

[Anonymous No.18497802]

>>18497778
How are you going to cry about subjectivity and then give nothing but subjective opinions?
>"Conmevtion to nature" don't care about this babble
Great, but that's a subjective opinion. Go wake your boyfriend up and ask him the definitions of objective and subjective. You're acting like a weeping vag.

[Anonymous No.18497805]

>>18497802
I can only give a subjective opinion on subjective topics, or are you going to educate me on the "objective nature of connection to nature"?
"weeping vag" is ironic for someone who speaks at length at how he hates the world

[Anonymous No.18497808]

>>18497745
Maybe, just maybe, your tradLARP /pol/faggot idols are all worthless? Maybe their ideas suck?

[Anonymous No.18497810]

>>18497490
>untermenschen

[Anonymous No.18497813]

>in a society that doesn't value human life
the government shut down society for well over a year because a few fatties and geriatrics died of the flu.

[Anonymous No.18497818]

>>18497805
I'm not the person you were discussing this with, you helmet wearing downey. I just simply happened to wander by and read a post by some dumb bitch who was crying about subjectivity while giving nothing but subjective opinions. This has nothing to do with your argument, because I'm not arguing with you. I'm pointing out the irony you missed because you're stupid as shit. You can be mad about it, but that just makes you stupid as shit and mad. It is what it is.

[Anonymous No.18497824]

>>18497818
someone's a little mad, write me a paragraph on that

[Anonymous No.18497833]

>>18497824
>buh buh buh I know you are but what am I
Lol get fucked loser. There's one 1 person in this thread that thinks you're smarter than you are.

[Anonymous No.18497847]

>>18497813
>***the government shut down society because over 600k people died and literally every country in the world shut down at the same time

[Anonymous No.18497848]

>>18497778
>Individuals have more freedom than ever before, not many people in 1100s Europe had the freedom of flying to the US, the range of occupations, or to disseminate their opinion around the world.
Is that freedom? There's no space left. When everything is claimed is there really freedom?

[Anonymous No.18497853]

>>18497847
Sounds like a hyperindividualist neoliberal pissworld imho.

[Anonymous No.18497865]

>>18497612
>filtered

not an argument

[Anonymous No.18497869]

>>18497738
this may not be an argument but why is it always the people who agree with you the most about the modern world being shit that deny the issues of environmental destruction?

[Anonymous No.18497875]

>>18497869
Because the environmental movements are largely "fake and gay" and ultimately run by the same megacorps who want to use it was an extension of even more subservience and slavery.
>you WILL eat the bugs
>you WILL live in the pods
The problem is the death of nuance, of complexity. People attach their identities to ideologies now, they try to live as orthodox to whatever -Ism that they connect themselves with.

[Anonymous No.18497881]

>>18497778
>Surveillance exists and the government could probably find out what porn I like, so what?
You're being purposefully absurd to derail the overall point of the surveillance state. Also the "so what" argument is incredibly childish.
>Oh how I wish I could be an Amazonian hunter gatherer
Again, you use absurdism. You don't actually have an argument except to make ridiculous what others are trying to talk about. Nihilists are all high and mighty until it comes time to pay their next utility bill...

[Anonymous No.18497890]

>>18497848
>There's no space left
Unable to comprehend such an idiotic incorrect statement
This is where you say "but by space I meant specifically the coastline of New York City, not the insane amount of uninhabited land on Earth"

[Anonymous No.18497893]

>>18497890
>uninhabited
It's all owned. Unless you are going to throw another absurdism and say something like "Well the Sahara Desert is so spacious and empty, live there!".

[Anonymous No.18497899]

>>18497881
Do you see the irony in you calling wanting to be a hunter-gatherer absurd?

[Anonymous No.18497906]

>>18497899
Strawman. I never once made any claim about hunter-gatherers. You are the only person talking about hunter-gatherer societies. Nobody else has even conceived this position.

[Anonymous No.18497917]

>>18497906
>in fact we live much better lives than our ancestors did
Strongly disagree with this statement by leaps and bounds.

Don't know who said the above, must've been some "guy who isn't me"

[Anonymous No.18497920]

>>18497893
So buy some, or are you now going to complain that the idea of owning land is impossible?

[Anonymous No.18497922]

>>18497813
>a few
>Covid killed more than wars
>a few

[Anonymous No.18497923]

>>18495533
fucking jews still telling people they are prisoners when the truth is that the only thing stopping you from being free is yourself. I've noticed shifting blame for sin to external sources is pretty much the main theme in Jewish thought. They don't want responsibility or freedom.

[Anonymous No.18497928]

>>18497922
is there a statement more meaningless than "more than wars"

[Anonymous No.18497930]

>>18497922
>making up bullshit
>black people kill more than wars

[Anonymous No.18497934]

>>18497917
I disagreed with the overall statement of "living better than our ancestors" by directly proving to you several crucial points that are inherently worse off than people in antiquity. You are talking solely about socio-economic conditions for people in North America and Europe. However in both these locations, particularly in North America, it is based more off an illusion than reality. Poisoned food supply being a fundamental that nobody wants to talk about because its too inconvenient.

[Anonymous No.18497936]

>>18497920
>So buy some, or are you now going to complain that the idea of owning land is impossible?
Not him. You're moving the goalpoints.
Where are the frontiers?

[Anonymous No.18497937]

>>18497920
There is no "buying land" the property is owned. You will still have to pay a governing body which is just printing money at incredible rates to cover the gross deficiencies in their own ability to mismanage money.

[Anonymous No.18497942]

>>18497928
>is there a statement more meaningless than "more than wars"
Being specifical, how many amerifarts were killed in the Iraq War?

[Anonymous No.18497944]

>>18497937
>>18497936
Ah so it's the libertarians/anarchists

[Anonymous No.18497950]

>>18497944
>ah so it's an artificial -ism I can fall back on to avoid having to think in nuance

[Anonymous No.18497952]

>>18497944
>Ah so it's the libertarians/anarchists
The people in the Wild West were libertarians/anarchists, Jhonny?

[Anonymous No.18497959]

>>18497950
Pining to live free of any government is libertarian/anarchist, yes

[Anonymous No.18497960]

>>18497959
>everything has to fit an -ism otherwise I can't think about it
This conversation is pointless, you're too much a modern numale.

[Anonymous No.18497963]

>>18497944

Capitalism was a mistake. Socialism is the way to go, but it's sabotaged by greedy individuals that don't execute it correctly.

[Anonymous No.18497966]

>>18497813
yeah, bare life, the object of biopolitical management

[Anonymous No.18497973]

>>18497960
bye bye

[Anonymous No.18497974]

>>18497963
Keep breathing smoke, you false-flag!

[Anonymous No.18497992]

>>18497963

[Anonymous No.18497994]

>>18497922
Big fuckin whoop, in the US, 80,000 died of the flu in the winter of 2017-2018, it means nothing.

[Anonymous No.18497996]

>>18495533
>because one life isn't as important when they are lost in a sea of millions of individuals

When has this ever not been the case?

[Anonymous No.18498034]

>>18497300
100% based. I live by the aggression principle, and until I am beaten to a pulp I will be right.

[Anonymous No.18498049]

>>18497974
>>18497992

Correlation is not causation. People pollute because they rely on old technology. Renewable energy cannot coexist with socialism ?

Socialism is about focusing on political measures meant to increase the quality of life of the citizens (socialism - social - for society). State funded healthcare and education are socialist products for example. If they are not in an ideal situation that's because of corruption. Corruption is a problem with the individuals, not with the system itself.

[Anonymous No.18498086]

>>18497021
He was a pedophile.

[Anonymous No.18498553]

>>18497875
this goes far further back then modern environmentalism, it started when rachel carson released her book silent spring - conservatives still liken her to adolf hitler because she said ddt was unwise to use in agriculture

[Anonymous No.18498581]

Look, all I know is: it's best to forever-expand the bureaucratic system and to give more of your money to an inefficient govt.

Things will turn out just fine.

[Anonymous No.18498587]

>>18498581
yeah, the market will solve all
removing the chemicals that was killing the ozone, 100% free market

[Anonymous No.18498601]

>>18497515
Foucault was a Nietzschian whose entire philosophical project was to expose the roots of the bugman society. You're either a liar who hasn't read Foucault or a brainlet.

[Anonymous No.18498612]

>>18497992
>socialism = communism
Okay brainlet. Just so you know, Italian socialist parties were right-wing.