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/lit/ - Literature

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18501454 No.18501454 [Reply] [Original]

I don't know why /lit/ hates this book. It was a great introduction to American history.

>> No.18501473
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18501473

>>18501454
It's a great introduction to anti-white propaganda.

>> No.18501492
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18501492

>>18501473
>It's a great introduction to anti-white propaganda.

>> No.18501499

Early life
Zinn was born to a Jewish immigrant family in Brooklyn on August 24, 1922

>> No.18501518 [DELETED] 

>>18501499
he felt guilty for firebombing civilians in dresden during ww2 so he dedicated the rest of his life to attacking america academically

>> No.18501566

>>18501454
/pol/ hates unions and minorities. It’s a book about breaking unions and murdering minorities. /pol/ should love it.

>> No.18501606

>>18501454
The book is interesting but not a great intro as it don't reference elements other that its agenda. If you don't know about America's history you won't be able to trace those event in the grand scheme of things.

>> No.18501664

>>18501499

>> No.18502269

>>18501492
It’s bad history.

>> No.18502289

for a book to be a good introduction to a topic doesn't it have to be marginally accurate and respected?

>> No.18502338
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18502338

>>18501454

A lot of critiques of the book are critiquing examining American history through a strictly materialist lens. Zinn's specific historical materialism is especially fundamentalist to the extent that he heavily downplays the role of religion and culture even while talking about the history of religions and cultures themselves. Zinn also frequently says figures were acting greedily/deceitfully without evidence. On top of all this a lot of the evidence he does present is anecdotal, and cherry-picked to support his thesis and overall views. Citations are sparse at best, but usually absent and muddled....

I could go on and on. There are much more rigorous and helpful books on American history, albeit People's History is worth reading since it has become so influential and a lot of laypeople treat it as authoritative.

>> No.18502395

I dislike the moral framing of what it describes.

>> No.18502611

>>18502395
I agree it’s insufficiently historically materialist.

>> No.18502842

>>18501499
retard

>> No.18502906 [SPOILER] 
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18502906

>>18501566
Just goes to show that you don't understand /pol/...
Yet they understand you perfectly...

>> No.18502934

>>18502338
What's >picrelated about?

>> No.18502948

>>18502906
>muh degradation of society
/pol/ and the rest of the altright just mask their primal fear of outsiders and change by pretending to care about the morality of society as a whole

>> No.18502973

>>18502948
some outsiders are outsiders for a reason. like pedos.

>> No.18502998

>>18502948
Socities stand in relation to others. Cultures establish what they prefer and what they don't. "Outsiders" can, in fact, have an effect on culture. To pretend they don't is either intentional ignorance or willful lying.

>> No.18503024

>>18502998
Historically, outsiders have been shunned and discriminated against simply because they've been designated "other" by the arbitrary whims of a society. Cultures change all the time, and resisting that change is often futile and damaging.

>> No.18503029

>>18502973
I don't see any reason why pedos who don't abuse kids should be shunned

>> No.18503032

>>18503024
>Cultures change all the time, and resisting that change is often futile and damaging.

>Change will inevitably occur; therefore, you should embrace this specific instance of cultural change that I like
The "fear of change" argument has always been one of the dumber ones you people trot out.

>> No.18503034

>>18503024
ywnbaw

>> No.18503035

>>18503024
>I swear it's totally arbitrary! I haven't been kicked out of 120 countries for any reason other than arbitrary xenophobia.

>> No.18503037

>>18503032
It's better than pretending to care about preserving "culture"

>> No.18503042
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18503042

>>18501454
it's been debunked

>> No.18503044

>>18503037
Why do you think people pretend? People have relationship with cultural elements of their society that are far more meaningful and fruitful than the relationships they have with other people.

>> No.18503051

>>18503044
What aspect of your relationship with culture is threatened by trans people and immigrants? When I think of an ideal "culture", I think of creativity, self-expression, and kindness. What do you think of?

>> No.18503065
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18503065

>>18503051

>> No.18503066

>>18503037
Woke are actually attacking the culture though, it's your gaslighting that's futile. You're a vulgar philistine on a literature board trying to claim you should be welcome everywhere.

>> No.18503077

>>18503051
Most literature today is sub mediocre identity porn catering to minority grievances/agitprop. That's the kind of thing people are reacting against.

>> No.18503078
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18503078

>howard zinn

>> No.18503091

>>18503077
This argument is literally hundreds of years old. At any given point of time, most of the literature published is shit catered towards feeding public sentiment. The stuff that's worth remembering will be given its due in time. Remember, there was a time when cultural preservationists deemed Joyce pornographic and dismissed Pynchon as an addled stoner.

>> No.18503098

>>18503091
>Remember, there was a time when cultural preservationists deemed Joyce pornographic and dismissed Pynchon as an addled stoner.
they were right

>> No.18503099

>>18503098
True, got me there

>> No.18503139

>>18502269
this is true
>>18501473
this is retarded

>> No.18503150
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18503150

>>18501566
Do you see "/pol/" in the room right now?

>> No.18503172

>>18503091
There was no point when that public sentiment was so self loathing though. There's something not quite right about a population and its elite consciously undermining and sabotaging itself, and is AFAIK unprecedented in history. It's not about each little indignity alone which conservatives blow out of proportion then forget about, it's the big picture of a slow death by a thousand cuts.

>> No.18503191

>>18501454
Lies My Teacher Told Me is much better. Give it a try it’s a light read and much less moralizing. You might learn something, I sure did.

>> No.18503200

>>18501454
Chuds fear the voice of the working class.
They are sad self haters

>> No.18503212

>>18503200
Your precious working class hates or ignores you, the revolution is never coming. You're doomed to spinsterhood and irrelevance, good day.

>> No.18503213

>>18503200
You're technically lumpen though, and Zinn is an employee of the bourgeois state ideological apparatus.

>> No.18503259

>>18503213
No, I’m working class. NEETs are lumpens though.

>>18501492
Don’t associate my mere whiteness with imperialism and racism. And stop defending the indefensible.

>> No.18503365

>>18502338
>materialism is dumb, history is actually about my feelings

COPE

>> No.18503380

>>18501566
>muh /pol/
Anyone who whines about /pol/ hasn't ever been on the board. It's been raided and botted for like 5 years straight now.

>> No.18503386

>>18503365
Historical materialism as in boiling everything down to class struggle is for historical illiterates and laughable

>> No.18503392
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18503392

>Noooooo don't shit on America and white people nooooooo

https://youtu.be/Nh3N63QdSw0

>> No.18503402

>>18503259
Send your fellow working class a picture of yourself barefoot in a sundress

>> No.18503413

>>18503259
Working for some agency to disrupt online discussions is not a real job.

>> No.18503425

>>18503386
>science doesn't real because god tells me so

>> No.18503445

>>18503425
>science
What parts of it are refutable were refuted by Bernstein 120 years ago. Not even ether tier.

>> No.18503471

>>18503425
Whats scientific about it exactly?

>> No.18503481

>>18503413
I’m here for the interactive entertainment, anon. No one but NSA are paid to troll these boards.

>> No.18503482

>>18501454
>>>/his/

>> No.18503489

>>18502338
Solid take.

>> No.18503515

>>18503481
>she does it for free

>> No.18503524

>>18503515
How is the pay?

>> No.18503651

>>18503425
>historical materialism
>science
Oh, am I laughing

>> No.18503720

>>18503200
but those you call "chuds" are the working class?

>> No.18503722

>>18501454
Jews are biologically incapable of telling the truth and thus writing history. Jews compulsively undermine and passive-aggressively attack, this is what they do.

>> No.18503733

>>18503722
I found a jew who told the truth, the guy and his old mentor were literally assassinated....

>> No.18503734

>>18503051
>What do you think of?
Mountains of dead infidels lit ablaze a summer’s night.

>> No.18503749

>>18503720
Yeah, some anyway. Why and how they defend/loath the elites is some serious Stockholm syndrome

>>18503515
As does anon

>> No.18503755

>>18503749
You listened to that last vocaroo right? Say/do something indicating to me you're doing what I asked :3

>> No.18503955

>>18503024
Yes, very Correct, all societies in the past were Very Dumb and were thrown into a terrified-infant psychology at the immediate sight of a stranger or a boat. International trade and diplomacy is only like 150 years old at best. There were never any valid cultural, economic, or biological reasons to outgroup anyone ever. Borders, territory, rules of economy, and collective preferences DON'T exist (never did, simple as). It was only ever little babies who were scared for no reason at all.

Please start founding your opinion in any amount of concrete history.