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18551020 No.18551020 [DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

I'm ashamed to say it but I've been brainwashed by cukcs. into believing leftism is the way to go. After hanging around enough troon spaces and listening to too many women and especially black women spout their nonsense, I'm beginning to come around to the opinion that fascism is the way to go.

I'd like to read the key fascist figures, I've been ignoring the other side for too long.

Also, are there any books that justify fascism from a leftist foundation?

>> No.18551030
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18551030

Take the wealth pill
Work hard towards achieving a considerable amount of wealth
Dont obsess about topics like race/muh nation too much at the moment
Your time is precious and should be used studying the art of investing/money-making in general
Everybody hates George soros yet his financial success is astonishing (read his book the alchemy of finance) and with his capital he set up a global chain of NGOs which promote his ideology
You should follow the same path if you want to change the political climate
As a a poorfag you are just a mere pleb

>> No.18551056

>>18551030
For most who follow this advice, they will end up a cog in the neoliberal world order as they are not exceptional and therefore incapable of breaking through the wall into the realm of true power and influence. Why do you think there are 0 elites that deviate from the program?

>> No.18551062

Holy shit, you guys are pathetic. You read but you don’t comprehend.

>> No.18551065

>>18551056
If you are browsing this board you belong to a pretty exceptional circle already

>> No.18551090

Has anybody noticed that some countries (NZ, Canada, UK) have really started to enjoy being pseudo-fascist states with progressive ideology?

>> No.18551096
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18551096

>>18551065

>> No.18551147

>>18551065
I hope you're right.
>>18551020
Mussolini's Intellectuals is a classic primer on the original fascist thought. Mussolini himself was initially a Marxist as were all the other fascists. To know what informed them, read Marx and his disciples.

>> No.18551287

>>18551147
>Mussolini himself was initially a Marxist as were all the other fascists. To know what informed them, read Marx and his disciples.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, at the end of Marxism lies fascism (and that's a good thing)

>> No.18551405

>>18551287
>at the end of Marxism lies fascism
https://sci-hub.do/10.14321/jstudradi.8.1.0141
>Curiously, Bar-On otherwise recognizes without difficulties that “major Fascist thinkers from Benito Mussolini to Oswald Mosley had intellectual roots on the left,” but he considers that a representative of the ND [Nouvelle Droit] who was a member of right-wing organizations in his youth could, by this fact alone, only “remain on the right” throughout his entire life.
>I have myself constantly criticized the formula “neither right nor left,” not only because it refers to precedents in the history of ideas with which I do not identify, but also because it quite simply does not mean anything. Rather than “neither right nor left,” I have often written, it would be better to say “both right and left”: “both... and,” and not “neither... nor.”

>> No.18551450
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18551450

>>18551020
Read this instead anon.

>> No.18551457

>>18551020
>are there any books that justify fascism from a leftist foundation?
hm that sounds interesting. i'd also like some literature exploring the idea of a socialized nationalist state emerging from a hopelessly degenerate wasteland. any suggestions guys????

>> No.18551482

>>18551030
Logical but lacking in Common sense. The Other side's bait and hook is Power. This isn't specific to all wealth formation but the hooks have gone in so deep that its doubtful for most to go from zero to hero in the present without being tied atleast publicly (and in Spirit) to the Other side. As your wealth grows and your connections deepen in this regime your relation to the next regime will be at best marginal and at worst in opposition to it. Of course Elites are what is required but I'm afraid that if the ones who currently have influence don't organize or legitimize a Counter-Institution than the only thing that can rattle people awake will be a devastating Black Swan Event. If this is the case, renewed political energy will then need to be hastily bottled by our best Men.

Make money but never lose your soul because it will be those with it who will be demanded to guide the Masses in the changing of Shepherds.

>> No.18551488

>>18551020
>fascism from a leftist foundation
this might be the stupidest thing I've read on this board. What do you think fascism is? What do you think leftist thought is?

>> No.18551492

>>18551020
>Also, are there any books that justify fascism from a leftist foundation?

w...what?

>> No.18551498

>>18551492
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ugo_Spirito

>> No.18551501
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18551501

Anyone else just done with politics? Is political ideology just a spook invented by civilized people to obscure the real reason men fight each other: genetic interest.

At the battle of Berlin in 1945, the reason all those German boys, many of them not old enough to shave, kept fighting the Soviets when all hope was lost wasn't because they "hated the Jews". It was because they saw the Slav hordes coming for their women. They saw disgusting subhumans, the "other" coming to end the genetic lineage their forefathers had given their life to preserve.

Is politics just a pseudo-proxy for genetic conflict that only matters within your group as long as your group isn't existentially threatened by hordes of men from another tribe. It's depressing, but I think that enlightenment ideals, humanism, etc. can't win from hundreds of thousands of years of evolution.

>> No.18551505

>>18551020
>becoming fascist because a black woman hurt your feelings
weak

>> No.18551507

>fascism is the way to go
It is not. Fascism is dead and the conditions that made it possible are no longer here. Read Evola if you want a right-wing critique of it.

>> No.18551509

>>18551501
>enlightenment ideals, humanism, etc. can't win from hundreds of thousands of years of evolution.
nor should they

>> No.18551521

>>18551507
the only good response in this thread

>> No.18551527

>>18551450
>https://sci-hub.do/10.14321/jstudradi.8.1.0141
sorry I'm a diehard Feyerabend boi

>> No.18551533

>>18551457
>>18551020
one could argue that D+G and Lyotard did that, at least somewhat

>> No.18551536

>>18551507
Talking about Evola and trads, how would they go on and organize the state? How would they structure the economy in the 21st century? I'm genuinely curious.

>> No.18551538

>>18551488
you're retarded

>> No.18551548

>>18551488
1488 based

>> No.18551550

>>18551065
Exceptionally retarded maybe
>>18551020
Ideology is not the light at the end of the tunnel, it is a passenger train and you should get off the tracks. Stop thinking that 20th century ideologies will help you in the 21st century. Have sex.

>> No.18551556

>>18551550
>Have sex.
brother, I've checked out of sexual relarions of all kinds. It's hopeless

>> No.18551557

>>18551536
>Talking about Evola and trads, how would they go on and organize the state?
The king sits on the throne and everything becomes Good, because the King represents the Super-Ego and thus is aligned with cosmic metaphysical principles. Everybody become willing to serve, castes return, Kali-Yuga ends and only good thing happen ever after.

>How would they structure the economy in the 21st century?
Austerity and reducing the birth rate.

>> No.18551562

>>18551536
They wouldn't. They don't believe there is a political solution to our situation. The closest thing any of them wrote to a "model" is Men Among the Ruins, in which Evola outlines some main characteristics of traditional states, but that is all.

>> No.18551564

>>18551556
>giving up on your biology and pretending that's a good and noble thing

>> No.18551566

>>18551147
>as were all the other fascists.
Hmm, not necessarily
>To know what informed them, read Marx and his disciples.
Elaborate?

>> No.18551568

>>18551557
>trads are liberals in denial
Checks out

>> No.18551569

>>18551557
And you people call communism a retarded fantasy

>> No.18551576

>>18551488
it's like this. Despite my aversion to what leftism is nowadays, I still agree with some leftist premises, i.e. social construction. I feel now, after warming up to fascism, that fascism and ideas such as social constructivism for instance aren't incompatible and they could in fact be used to justify fascism.

>> No.18551577

>>18551557
That has nothing to do with the trads.
>>18551562 is the correct answer.

>> No.18551579

>>18551556
Checked out or had?
And it isn't about the sex, it's about the intimacy. Finding the right woman (or dude it is 2016 after all) fully outstrips any sense of communal belonging that you may gain from joining what amounts to a WoW faction that people take far too seriously

>> No.18551580

>>18551020
>Also, are there any books that justify fascism from a leftist foundation?
Bombacci, maybe? Not sure, never came across any of his books, I doubt they are still printed here, let alone in English translation

>> No.18551586

>>18551564
>pretending that's a good and noble thing
i never claimed anything close to that. my inability to live up to the standard that every single one of my male ancestors set for me is a source of deep shame. the only place I talk about it freely is in anonymous spaces

>> No.18551588

>>18551577
>That has nothing to do with the trads.
This is literally the content of Evola's "Men among the ruins"

>> No.18551593

>>18551579
well I had sex before but I now have given up completely
As cucked as it sounds, intimacy terrifies me.

>> No.18551600

>>18551501
>It was because they saw the Slav hordes coming for their women. They saw disgusting subhumans, the "other" coming to end the genetic lineage their forefathers had given their life to preserve.
You are both dumb and ignorant.
Kievan Rus' was founded by Germanic people, you fucking pseud. Why do you think Dolph Lundgren was so believable as Ivan Drago? Why do you think Viggo Mortensen was so good in Eastern Promises? Balto-Slavic and Germanic are closely related, you absolute pseud

>> No.18551603

>>18551593
It's hard not to be terrified of intimacy. I certainly was, but once you find the right person it really doesn't matter.

>> No.18551609

>>18551588
More like a parody of it.

>> No.18551618

>>18551576
the main tenet of leftist thought is the first principle of equality. you cannot be a leftist without holding this principle. fascism explicitly rejects this principle. constructivism is not by nature leftist, or political at all. It's just applied hamfistedly by progressive activists to say everything i dont like is a social construct and should be replaced with everything I like (which are also social constructs and therefore have no more supposed validity)

>> No.18551623

>>18551603
idk friend. After my last sexual experience I've begun to question if it weren't better if I just accepted that I ought to stay alone.

>> No.18551626

>>18551450
based

>> No.18551627

>>18551062
perhaps it is you who reads, but does not comprehend

>> No.18551630

>>18551609
There is a reason why Evola is called "the Magic Baron" and "our Marcuse, only better"

>> No.18551636

>>18551623
Don't give up hope anon, if I could find someone then anybody can

>> No.18551637
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18551637

>>18551020
>key fascist figures
>created by the same globalist media propagandists as every other politician
>literally believing you have a choice
>believing that your "opinion" is relevant"

That's tragic, lil fella. According to the CDC, 88% of American adults are legally mentally retarded with less literacy skills than a 15 year old. Why in God's name would the people who own and enslave you care about your "opinions" given the fact that 88% of slaves are legally mentally retarded, and those who are intelligent are too risk-averse. contented, and meek to ever question of fight their owners.

>> No.18551639

>>18551600
Genetic conflict plays out on different scales. If a German and Pole fight each other, their genetic interest clashes.

If a German and a Pole fight a Sub-Saharan African, their genetic interests align.

>> No.18551652

>>18551618
I see where you're coming from.
However Nietzsche is famously anti egalitarian and has been quite influental on leftist thought. So that means non, or anti leftist thought can be employed to justify leftism, and if that's true, in theory can't leftist thought be used to justify fascism?

>> No.18551653

>>18551639
Not necessarily, you can have alliances with far against near, history is full of examples especially of the divide and conquer variety.

>> No.18551659 [DELETED] 

>>18551637
ackschchuallly: the post

>> No.18551665

>>18551652
>can't leftist thought be used to justify fascism?
https://theamericansun.com/2020/11/03/reconceptualizing-political-economy-with-nitzan-and-bichlers-capital-as-power/

>> No.18551677

>>18551637
You have a point, but I don't think that being able to draw a function is a prereq for consenting to sex, they are quite different things.
But yeah, those data are tragic

>> No.18551683

>>18551637
Luckily I'm german

>> No.18551693

>>18551637
>disparagingly talks about globalist media
>cites the CDC

>> No.18551696

>>18551653
Only as long as you're not facing an existential threat to your genetic lineage, I think. And the only reason why men would form an alliance with a people genetically distant to them is to protect their own genetic interest. The point I'm trying to make is that I think that all conflict, from a bar fight to dropping atom bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, isn't about ideas. It's about genes all the way down.

>> No.18551698
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18551698

>Sternhell, Neither Left nor Right
>Gregor, The Ideology of Fascism
The more you know about leftism the more you will realize that fascism and third positionism are legitimate extensions of it. For the related thesis that fascism is modernism done right, not a return to tradition or mere reaction, and not totalitarianism, read Griffin, Modernism and Fascism. Also read about the movement called the conservative revolution.

For right-wing anticapitalism that combines the best of theory and praxis, read these four articles:
https://www.counter-currents.com/tag/breaking-the-bondage-of-interest/

And these if you want:
https://counter-currents.com/2014/10/kerry-boltons-the-banking-swindle/
https://counter-currents.com/2014/11/central-banking-and-human-bondage/

From there you can pretty much go anywhere. Some form of social credit or integralism, Italian fascism or national socialism, Falangism, Peronism, National Bolshevism. However I recommend that above all you read Samuel T. Francis, Leviathan and its Enemies. First read about Buchanan and Buchananism (he was his friend and advisor) and then read Francis' short article "From Household to Nation," then ideally learn a bit about Burnham's managerial class thesis and Mosca's and Pareto's "circulation of elites" theories (https://counter-currents.com/2018/04/the-ruling-class/), then read Leviathan. It is a comprehensive guide to right-socialist populism to resist the coming war with the elites.

Another interesting thing to look into is Paul Piccone, who moved toward synthesizing the post-Soviet Left (not the New Left, which is progressive astroturf) with the New Right. I highly recommend this overview:
https://c2cjournal.ca/2009/06/where-marx-and-conservatives-meet-the-writings-of-paul-piccone/

I also recommend reading Christopher Lasch's Revolt of the Elites, possibly before reading Francis' Leviathan.

In terms of resisting the coming total war with capital, which is allying with all kinds of hideous technology oligarchs and has already allied with technology itself, the right is definitely the way to go. But there is nothing wrong with taking all the theory leftism has to offer if it's useful. French social theory is very useful for understanding technologies of control and how to break free of them and create counter-movements. Marxist theory is invaluable for understanding class warfare, it's just wrong about its Hegelian eschatology. The best Marxists and anarchists are very useful theorists of how to create and sustain praxis-oriented movements (Gramsci) and blanquist vanguards (Leninism), and Marxism has a century and a half of self-critique of these tendencies and their pitfalls that the right can learn a lot from. It's even best to understand fascism as a product of the failures of Marxism and the unresolved antinomies of the Second International. That's certainly how Mussolini, a Second International Marxist turned fascist, saw it.

>> No.18551703

>>18551637
American test scores are similar to European test scores after you control for the obvious factor

>> No.18551713

>>18551696
Yeah but 'the country of Poland' is not actually anyone's genetic interest, it's a massive political abstraction. In so far as your genetic interest is concerned what matters is securing the safety and prosperity of your family, living and descendant.

>> No.18551729
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18551729

>>18551030

>Take the wealth pill
>be a good goy
>work hard for monopoly money
>100% owned by your masters
>which due to inflation and taxes
>disappears when you die
>purchase "capital"
>which can easily be taken by eminent domiain and military force

>As a a poorfag you are just a mere pleb

Comical that you think any of these people with money have power. Even Soros or Bezos still bend down to the secret police. They don't qestion their masters. These are just good goyim who work hard and get rewarded with hedonism. They have no ability to question the people who own and enslave them. They have no ability to contest the people who own and operate the military, the same people who will literally kill you if you question them. See McAfee and plenty of other faggots I never cared to remember. The people know if they fuck up, they die, so they obey their masters.

If you're intelligent enough to become rich, you're intelligent enough to know the dangers of questioning your masters. This is why they are all obedient, good goyim for the people who control every threat within this nation.

>>18551147
>If you are browsing this board you belong to a pretty exceptional circle already
>Exceptionally retarded maybe

This is the truth. There's nobody on this website who isn't retarded or mentally ill because this place is a fucking cesspool of the most illegitimate and irredeemable people on the planet. If you were not illegitimate and irredeemable, you would not be so socially isolated, psychologically dysfunctional, and desperate for some delusion of hope that you go 4chan to begin with.

>>18551564

>giving up on your biology and pretending that's a good and noble thing

Taking pride in fucking chattel farm animals, which in the "best" situation produces nothing but slaves for your masters and forces you to work much harder for your masters in order to economically and socially sustain these people who are little more than guns pointed at your skull.

Now, with family, with children, if you make a mistake, if you don't work hard enough, if your woman becomes discontented, you are not looking down the barrel of litigation which will economically and socially ruin you for your entire life.

Why? All because you felt "so compelled" to stick your dick in a farm animal in order to produce more slaves for your masters, all so your masters can have more slaves, all so you can increase the extent to which you suffer and toil to perpetuate the power and wealth of your masters. Have fun with that. There's a reason women are so willing to settle for dogs. Women are lazy like niggers, and dogs have plenty of dick to satisfy a woman, all without the risk of abuse, economic damage, endless burden, and endless stress that comes with performing the upkeep necessary to sustain a family.

>Finding the right woman (or dude it is 2016 after all) fully outstrips any sense of communal belonging

>Enjoys intimacy with farm animals.
>Found the farm animal

>> No.18551738

>>18551729
wtf are you on about schizz?

>> No.18551744

>>18551696
>dropping atom bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, isn't about ideas.
The atom bombs weren't even aimed against Japan, they already wanted to surrender. It was an indirect threat to USSR.
Do you even study history?

>> No.18551749

it's not that fascism is inherently the only way to go (although it is pretty good), it's that both sides of the false dichotomy are controlled opp; 'leftism' = socialism without nationalism, 'right' = nationalism without socialism.
but the real pill is that strict in-group preference, and fluid strategies with situation-appropriate optics, is all you really need. everything else may as well be aesthetics at that point.
carl schmitt is literally the only important political philosopher now; everyone already implicitly agrees on the importance of the state these days, unless they're part of that dying breed of libertarians. just read 'concept of the political' and you're done.

>> No.18551755

>>18551713
Well isn't a country just a proxy for genetics? You look around and you see people who look like you, right?
>In so far as your genetic interest is concerned what matters is securing the safety and prosperity of your family, living and descendant.
I think securing your genetic interest goes further than just your immediate family and personal offspring. Because if you live in a ethnically homogenous society, your neighbours carry your genes too. I think many, if not most, men feel an instinctive drive to "keep out the other".

>> No.18551772

>>18551744
It doesn't matter. It's a display of genetic interest.

>> No.18551780

>>18551020
>believing in a literal faggot

>> No.18551790

>>18551780
who is the faggot OP believes in?

>> No.18551795

>>18551755
You have an interest in something like a tribe but we dont actually have tribes anymore. What matters is that the political regime under which you live is reasonably benevolent towards you and yours. The state being composed mostly of your own ethnicity probably helps with this but it's a separate matter technically and the overall survival of random people on your state who are of your ethnicity does not have anything to do with your own genetic prosperity. Evolution doesnt act on large groups like that, or the effect is very weak in comparison to the pressures on genes

>> No.18551812

>>18551790
Numerous Far-right retards obviously

>> No.18551818

>>18551020
>justify fascism from a leftist foundation
isn't fascism right wing by definition? the equivalent would be a communist dictatorship or something

>> No.18551825

>>18551790
Faggot means bundle of sticks and is the English word for fasces, the old Latin word for the bundle of sticks and (in times of war) axe, carried by the lictors of Roman officials in varying numbers to symbolise the extent of their grant of imperium. It's a symbol of strength in unity. Fascism draws its name from it.

>> No.18551829
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18551829

>>18551738
Futility

>> No.18551830

>>18551795

>we dont actually have tribes anymore

lol the very fact that whitey believes this is why they're dying. it's literally only the west that forces this myth, and even those that use the language of this myth don't really believe it, as the actions of radlibs for the last decade have shown

>you and yours

and who is 'yours'?

>> No.18551843

>>18551772
Explain USrael in genetic terms

>> No.18551849

>>18551830
Ethnicities are not tribes now except in very rare situations like some Afghan tribes. The han chinese or arabs do not behave like a tribe, they constantly fuck each other over, even if they show an average preference for their own, it will not prevent them from allying with far against near, which you cannot do in a tribe.

You and yours= family and allies.

>> No.18551867

>>18551450
eww, im not reading a pedophile

>> No.18551872

>>18551795
>You have an interest in something like a tribe but we dont actually have tribes anymore.
I disagree. You're right that tribes are definitely subject to political abstractions, but when push comes to shove men will choose whatever tribe/faction/group/country is actionable.

>What matters is that the political regime under which you live is reasonably benevolent towards you and yours.
Imagine I'm vehemently anti-communist. I think socialism is for weak, pussified halfmen with flaccid cocks. Imagine if I lived in a communist state that was being existentially threatened by a capitalist state. The soldiers of that capitalist state look nothing like me (let's say they're all Sub-Saharan African whilst I'm White European). I will still fight for my country because at that point, politics doesn't matter to me anymore. The only thing that matters to me is the survival of my genes. I think most men think this way, and I'm inclined to think you do to?

>The state being composed mostly of your own ethnicity probably helps with this but it's a separate matter technically and the overall survival of random people on your state who are of your ethnicity does not have anything to do with your own genetic prosperity. Evolution doesnt act on large groups like that, or the effect is very weak in comparison to the pressures on genes.
I think evolution does act on large groups like that. If you show a boxing match where a French man fights a Moroccan man, you know as well as I do that all the Germans, Englishmen, Italians, Dutch men will root for the French guy, whereas all the Algerians, Tunisians and Egyptians will root for the Moroccan guy. It's sounds comical but it's true.

>> No.18551876

>>18551849

>family and allies

sooooo, your tribe

>> No.18551885

>>18551867
why do you hate pedophiles

>> No.18551900

>>18551876
Well most people dont have a tribe, they have an extended family and a couple friends and usually rather weak connections with these people. A tribe is at least a few of these banded together and strongly interconnected. In modern society such an organisation is essentially criminal because you have to hold these connections above even the law.

>> No.18551907

>>18551867
Popper wasn't a pedo

>> No.18551910

>>18551849

Are you implying that tribalism is constrained to a particular time period or pre-industrial society?
Also families fight too, doesn't mean they don't still have loyalty to their family.

>> No.18551920

>>18551872
My point is you can ensure the survival of your genes by allying with people outside your ethnicity, this happens all the time. The nation state is usually made up of multiple ethnicities anyway and so is even less a case for this.

>> No.18551952

>>18551900

>Well most people dont have a tribe, they have a tribe
>A tribe is at least a few of these tribes banded together

>In modern society
which is not permanent
>such an organisation is essentially criminal

literally just look at african-american identitarianism, and how it's coddled by the system. look at jews ffs
legality has no effect on in-groups and out-groups as a primary historical constant.

>> No.18551977

>>18551952
I agree that j mafias are tribes and very successful ones. They frequently ally with gentile groups against the interest of j proles though, which reinforces my point.

AAs are totally irrelevant and the little tribes they form in their ghettos ar artificial, dysfunctional clusterfucks constantly imploding

And I dont think a single family is a tribe.

>> No.18551980

>>18551920
>My point is you can ensure the survival of your genes by allying with people outside your ethnicity, this happens all the time.
Yes but ONLY if you can ensure the survival of your personal genes. It's a difference of degree, not of kind.

If I can ensure the survival of my personal 46 chromosomes, I will ally with anyone.
But I also will choose my region above my state, my state above other states, neighbouring states over states on the other side of the planet, etc.

>The nation state is usually made up of multiple ethnicities anyway and so is even less a case for this.
And you know as well as I do that for many men, they are less willing to give their life for their country because of it. They are not going to give up their chance of having children so that some "outsider" can survive and pass on his genes. Meanwhile, men in history have been willing to die for the survival of people who are genetically similar.

>> No.18552016

>>18551977

>AAs are totally irrelevant

didn't they literally just put up TWO george floyd statues, which within the psyche of the entire country - if not the entire west - is actually normal and *not* considered something completely alien and ridiculous? how is that 'irrelevant'? BLM riots have shown that the law literally applies to them differently. like i don't understand how you're defining 'relevant' power and influence here, let alone why that has any relation to the material necessity of tribalism. the most geopolitically nations throughout history have been the most tribal.

>they frequently ally with gentile groups against the interest of j proles
wtf are you talking about

>And I dont think a single family is a tribe

a lot of powerful and influential people came from broken families. also the members of families frequently ally with non-family members against the interests of their family. i guess that means families don't exist, or are at least irrelevant.

>> No.18552043

>>18552016
Aas are very obviously pawns. They interact with powerful gentile groups against the interest of j proles, not sure what you dont get. And as to your last point that's precisely why a family is not necessarily a tribe, which is a social organization that is consciously held together against the outside and is therefore not just a family, ie. Accidental relatedness, but an alliance of families who act as a unit.

>> No.18552055
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18552055

>>18551818
Fascism is often called the "Third Position" or vice versa. In most cases it was an attempt to combine organic nationalism with socialism or syndicalism of some kind. The idea being that it takes the best of the left (critique of the effects of capitalism and the dislocations of industrialism, technology, and modernity) while avoiding its worst elements (naive utopian internationalism and a "workers' consciousness" that never really materialised) with the best of the right (genuine love of one's community and people, duty, willingness to sacrifice and serve the greater good) while avoiding its worst (mere preservation of old customs for the sake of preserving them, which often meant preserving corrupt old elites who were in bed with capitalist classes anyway).

Some of the best writing on fascism as a third position stresses that it was anti-bourgeois, and anti-liberal, the ideology of the bourgeoisie which is really a halfway ideology that NOMINALLY allows for freedom and dignity of every individual but in PRACTICE allows for the domination by established/moneyed classes. Not only did it have this anti-bourgeois critical stance in common with the left, it derived much of it from the left directly.

Right and left by themselves don't mean much. After WW2, the "right" was propagandistically and ideologically subverted by shit like libertarianism, which is yet another fake-out by the moneyed classes to make the lower classes not recognise they are being screwed.

>> No.18552070

>>18552055
>Some of the best writing on fascism as a third position stresses that it was anti-bourgeois
And, somehow, fascism ends up (actually, begins) as a tool used by bourgeoisie to stop communists' strikes. Really makes you think.

>> No.18552072

>>18552043

how did tribes form in the first place retard? they're not a positive phenomenon, they arise out of negation.

>They interact with powerful gentile groups

yeah you already said that, my point is that just shows they have greater allegiance to another tribe.
though it's been historically the most constant, no one said ethnicity is the only tribal identifier.

>> No.18552079

>>18552070
It's not just the bourgeois who dont want lunatic communists attempting a coup, the state putting a stop to that is not 'serving the bourgeoisie'

>> No.18552087

>>18552079
>It's not just the bourgeois
>it's the state
>the state is not 'serving the bourgeoisie'
Kek

>> No.18552088

>>18552070
That's the old 1930s narrative of communists that fascism is not a legitimate alternative to communism because it's just a tool of the bourgeoisie.

Truly, a thesis that still stands up today. All the trust fund commies and DSA trannies with "ML" in their profile are really leading the charge to prevent bourgeois appropriation of the left.

>> No.18552090

>>18552070

>muh capitalism in decay

and communist strikes lead to a 90% jewish first soviet government, and eventually to the rule of jewish oligarchs, and now state capitalism (in both russia and china). really makes you think.

>> No.18552097

>>18552072
Tribes formed out of some earlier simpler social organization. The point, which you seem intent on missing, is that tribes are a cohesive unit that offer a united front against everyone outside them. Most people simply do not have such a group today. Your ethnicity is certainly not such a group. Your family usually is not. Civilization itself is obviously at odds with the tribal social structure, though it exists in various embryonic forms nonetheless since it's a strong social instinct.

>> No.18552100

>>18552090
It's worth noting that the American socialist movement was completely nationalist, aside from obvious nods to international worker solidarity it did not give a fuck about some internationalist cascade of revolutions toppling every government. It was completely focused on "how can we implement socialism at home by forcing the establishment to accede to our demands."

Then when Jews began flooding into its ranks in the '40s and onward, it became obsessively internationalist and "intersectional," and has been a joke ever since.

>> No.18552102

>>18551020
retard

>> No.18552104

>>18552087
Just because Marxists take it as an immutable axiom that the state serves 'capital' does not make it true. The state has every incentive of its own to shut down communist freaks, and fascism gave more power to the state over corporations.

>> No.18552107
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18552107

>>18551501
>German boys, kept fighting the Soviets when all hope was lost wasn't because they "hated the Jews". It was because they saw the Slav hordes coming for their women.

Man, does it feel good to be a slav, ESPECIALLY today. For some reason...

>> No.18552108
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18552108

>>18552100
http://www.amnation.com/vfr/archives/024334.html

>The traditional belief is that all immigrants, regardless of their cultural background and numbers, can be equally well assimilated. But even the Jews, now that they’ve reached a position of unassailable power in American life, admit that this notion is false. As the well-known attorney and law professor Alan Dershowitz writes in his 1991 best-seller Chutzpah:
>"Jews have been extraordinarily successful in America. We have not melted into anyone else’s pot. Instead, we have reshaped the pot to accommodate our unusual dimensions."

>> No.18552109

>>18552088
>That's the old 1930s narrative
No, it's just reality
Thugs literally killed a syndicalist during a strike in my country, days ago.

>Truly, a thesis that still stands up today. All the trust fund commies and DSA trannies with "ML" in their profile are really leading the charge to prevent bourgeois appropriation of the left.
There is no left in america, enough with this retardation.

>> No.18552115

>>18552090
>its da joos
very compelling argument, how did I not think about that?

>> No.18552119

>>18552115
You're not allowed to think it lol

>> No.18552134

>>18552109
You, like most trannies trying to divide and confuse, play the no true scotsman game when it comes to your side (they're not real leftists!) right next to claiming that the worst representatives of something are valid representatives of it. Too bad this kind of pilpul works less and less these days.

Confused thugs exist on either side. When the time comes most sincere leftists, what's left of them anyway, will support a strong populist socialism on an organic basis out of sheer hatred for the fucking worthless degenerate upper classes. That's something we can all agree on.

>> No.18552141

>>18552097

>Most people simply do not have such a group today

and the point you're missing is that this is neither an argument that tribalism (in your autistic pre-industrial amazonian definition) will never exist again, nor an argument against its importance in geopolitical power.

>since it's a strong social instinct

it's a strong biological instinct, to acquire what is needed to survive, and to share it with the smallest amount possible, while also balancing that against having the most power projection. even monkeys have tribes and wars bro

>> No.18552145

>>18552104
>Just because Marxists take it as an immutable axiom that the state serves 'capital' does not make it true.
*sigh*
>The state has every incentive of its own to shut down communist freaks, and fascism gave more power to the state over corporations.
Nazis took money from literally Prescott Bush and Allen Dulles banks and corporation, you ignoramus. Literal Jews industrialists supported Mussolini (Isaia Levi is the first that comes to mind)

>> No.18552154
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18552154

>>18552145
>*sigh*
all opinions discarded

>> No.18552177

>>18552141
In the sense in which your genes are concerned it is the old definition which matters, the unit to which your own prosperity is directly tied.

>> No.18552180

>>18552145
>Nazis took money from literally Prescott Bush and Allen Dulles banks
And Lenin was financed by Germany during the revolution. Therefore, Russian communists are capitalists

>Literal Jews industrialists supported Mussolini
Literal Henry Ford supported Stalin
https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/ford-signs-agreement-with-soviet-union

>> No.18552181

>>18552115

how did you miss the point that hard. the argument i was responding to pulling the tired old 'fascism is capitalism in decay' meme. my point is you could just as easily argue that communism was designed by and put in power the very people behind capitalism today, and that communist nations eventually became state capitalism.

>> No.18552190
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18552190

Remember to have fun!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAzVYCs4BMY

>> No.18552192
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18552192

>>18552070
Fun fact: The concept of fascism as 'capitalism in decay/crisis' was originally created in the Third Plenum of the Executive Committee of the Communists International in 1923 by the efforts of Clara Zetkin to create a working definition for the ideology. This was later picked up by Marxists Gyula Sas, along with Rajani almena Dutt of the Communist Party of Great Britain arguing that 'capitalist democracy in decay breeds fascism.' Therefore, the 'original' definition of fascism was created by Marxists to render the concept into an acceptable understanding to their worldview, rather than to actually understand the components and later developments of the ideology.

>> No.18552194

>>18551020
read escape from freedom by eric fromm

>> No.18552199

>>18552145
It is interesting how marxists brains shut down when you suggest that causal factors other than muh capital determines everything might exist. They are utterly incapable of understanding the state as a separate vector of power which might ally with, sabotage, compete with various corporations, which do the same with each other as well rather than serving some demiurge called 'capital'.

>> No.18552211

>>18552134
>y-you're a tranny!
>uses the "no true scotsman" ad hominem
You fucking idiot, it's not a fallacy, it's a simple fact. The Bible says that bats are birds: saying that no bat has the ability to lay eggs as birds do is not a fucking fallacy, it's a damn fact.

>Confused thugs exist on either side
This is your cope? They were not "confused", they were paid by the management. You fucking fascist - "n-no, we are totally not lumpens taking money from the elites to disrupt leftist strikes, it's just confused people", you're always the same. Never changed in 100 years. At least 100 years ago they admitted it.

>> No.18552220

>>18552177

well even by your logic, we already have (for but one example) 'POC', and 'white people' - whom POC are both inherently defined against and actively seeking to suppress - so tribalism is returning whether you like it or not. which only goes to show its biological reality and historical necessity; whether you choose to believe in them or not, lines are already being drawn, and you (or at least the vast majority of people) will be forced into one or the other.

>> No.18552221

>>18552145
https://www.academia.edu/10354251/_On_Fascism_by_Alain_de_Benoist

https://youtu.be/XvvJcZygsUY

Innumerable definitions of Fascism have been proposed. The simplest is still the best: Fascism is a revolutionary non-marxist sociological socialist political form, characterized by the fusion of three principal elements: a nationalism of the Jacobin type, a non-democratic socialism, and the authoritarian call to the mobilization of the masses.

At its foundation, Fascism is based upon the modern trilogy: State-People-Nation. All its effort is directed to making synonyms of these three terms, which are nowadays separated. Born over the sign of the Fasces, before anything else Fascism has wanted to appear like it. Thus it had wanted to bring together the social classes and the political families, opposed in another epoch, to consolidate the unity of the nation. This was at the same time its strength and its weakness. Obsessed by the unity, it has been the centralizer.

Pretending to avert the specter of civil war, it has engendered absolute hatreds, left as a fractured, irreparable heritage. Its Jacobinism, its subjective nationalism, is the source of all its failures: the one who tends to that unity necessarily excludes that one who does not allow himself to be driven to the unity.

That spirit of community, which has profoundly marked Fascism, does not

>> No.18552222

>>18552180
>And Lenin was financed by Germany during the revolution
No, he was fucking not, a train ticket is not "financing the revolution". Ffs, read a damn book for once.

>a commercial agreement is a political statement
I've had enough, I've heard the same retardation on /his/ for too long.

>> No.18552223

>>18551020
>brainwashed by cukcs. into believing leftism is the way to go
>justify fascism from a leftist foundation?
Are you feeling all right anon?

Btw, the "third position" is the mainstream ideology since many decades - it's the common middle ground of "pragmatism", which means that the rulers from both sides of the ideological spectrum fuck you in the ass only enough so you are still a productive member of their herd.

>> No.18552229

>>18552211
It's a fallacy, and you used it, while also denying the use of it to your opponent in an analogous context. You can't think and you are probably an actual tranny.

Even if you aren't, most communists are now literal trannies. Your movement is the movement of trannies. Good job.

>> No.18552233

>>18551020
Go read Plato. Grab Plato and grab Kenney's A New History of Western Philosophy and begin going through that.

Also grab Jaworski Philosophy of Mind.

Once you start to develop critical thinking and logical skill sets (The Great Courses has a decent course on formal logic) you'll realize that these encompassing ideologies are for brainlets.

>> No.18552234

>>18552181
>my point is you could just as easily argue that communism was designed by and put in power the very people behind capitalism today
...except it wasn't?
>inb4 yehudi

>> No.18552236

I just want white people to advocate for their own interests instead of being walked on by all of these degenerates.

>> No.18552242

>>18552236
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFKaqP9RgvU

>> No.18552254

>>18552220
Tribal ethnic identity is returning to the proles yes, but they arent permitted to form tribes of their own. Just try and see how fast the feds swoop down on you. The people actually pushing this stuff have other plans

>> No.18552260

>>18552234

>who was marx
>who was lenin
>who was trotsky
>who was 90% of the first soviet government
>who was the first nation to recognise israel at the UN

>> No.18552274

>>18552199
>It is interesting how marxists brains shut down when you suggest that causal factors other than muh capital determines everything might exist. They are utterly incapable of understanding the state as a separate vector of power which might ally with, sabotage, compete with various corporations,
You are simply too ignorant to know what you're talking about
1920s Italy was a monarchy in which nobles and wealthy borgeoisie intermarried because of financial interests. FIAT (largest italian industry ever) was literally founded by nobles and bourgeois. And guess what? Agnellis were allied with Mussolini, because famously Turin was one of the most leftist cities in the country, because of his strong workers population AND active cultural life (see Gramsci's "Ordine Nuovo", just to name one).
The fact that the King personally didn't like Mussolini had ZERO impact on actual history

Do not fucking try to teach me my country's history, do not fucking dare.

>> No.18552284

>>18552274
You're a communist, you can't think at all you're braindead. Keep jerking off to your God of 'capital' and never understand anything

>> No.18552291

>>18552229
>most communists are now literal trannies.
>this meme again
This is why I left /his/, why am I here? Why are you here.
GO.OUT.MORE.

>> No.18552292

it's funny to me how relatively innocuous original posts like this one can snowball into a dumpster fire such as this thread

>> No.18552297

>>18552274
histrionic fag

>> No.18552305 [DELETED] 
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18552305

>>18552291

>> No.18552306

>>18552260
Lenin wouldn't even be considered a Jew under Nuremberg laws, but you don't read books, and therefore you don't learn such nice little facts.

>who was Stalin
>who purged all the Jews

>> No.18552309

>>18552292
The op is an inflammatory shit post you retard

>> No.18552317

>>18552305
WHOA...Great argument...absolutely BTFOd

Grow up

>> No.18552320

>>18551020
and now you're being brainwashed by someone else, think for yourself you retard

>> No.18552331

>>18551020
>the coin only has two sides and one of them must be right
lol

>> No.18552340 [DELETED] 
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18552340

>>18552317
take up the red flag

to the barricades!

>> No.18552343

>>18552309
I'm op and I wasn't shitposting

>> No.18552344

>>18552260
Marx was a trifle in the shadow of Hegel.

Hegel spawned the Marxism you despise and the modern nationalism and facism you love.

"The whole is the truth." The problem for Hegel's bastard grand children is that they are damned only to look at parts of the whole, searching for their own vindication.

>> No.18552346

Designated /pol/ schizo thread.

>> No.18552348

>>18552306

lol what are 'nuremberg laws', i care about reality, and the reality is that his dad was jewish and his mom was half jewish.

>where was the real first jewish state, the Jewish Autonomous Oblast, located
>who was the Stalin-stanning Mapam
>where did the vast majority of israelis, including their PMs and biggest business owners, come from

>> No.18552351

>>18552343
You basically are a shitpost that social engineers created

>> No.18552367
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18552367

>>18551020
>xxx is the way to go
really critically consider what it is you think about society.
Labels are poison.
Make your own conclusions and fuck whatever labels exist, no one actually subscribes 100% to whatever pigeonhole a label is anyway.
The most important thing is you think for yourself and never stop learning. Don't let others do it for you.

>> No.18552374

>>18552351
fair

>> No.18552379

>>18552348
Israel is a free masonic entity not a jewish state, they hate jews, Israel was set up to use the actual jews to build it up then be overrun

>> No.18552380

>>18552344

i mean if you wanna be autistic about it, technically the enlightenment spawned socialism, and locke was inspired by (((spinoza))), and both locke and leibniz were both directly influenced by kabbalah, according to their own letters.

>> No.18552405

>>18552380
yeah but spinoza was part of a bifurcation of the jews.
Spinoza chose logic while the other side went through the mass sabbataean frankist satanic conversion out of which came the rothschilds and their like, you should really give it a read

>> No.18552411

>>18551020
>I'm ashamed to say it but I've been brainwashed by cukcs.
And now you’ve been brainwashed by incels. Congratulations

>> No.18552455

>>18552411
>And now you’ve been brainwashed by incels. Congratulations
read the op. I came to this conclusion not because of people pushing fascism but because of leftists pushing leftism

>> No.18552500

>>18552242
Kipling's poem was written as a continuation of his anti-German shilling, why it is used in a right-wing sphere that tries to be pan-European is beyond me.

>> No.18552522

>>18552500
Not that anon, but this is a stupid argument. When faced with a outside group hell-bent on destroying all of your kind, the various internal arguments you have go on pause to some degree. They feel that now is one of those times. And before you give me the "delusional /pol/tard" label, I have literally no dog in this fight (I am not a European/White).

>> No.18552524

>>18552222
They did a lot more than pay his massive traveling fees. American capitalists financed the Bolshevik putsch and supported the formation of the Soviet Union. They did for commercial and while some like ideological reasons New York Journal American Schiff's grandson, John, was quoted by columnist Cholly Knickerbocker as saying that his grandfather had given about $20 million for the triumph of Communism in Russia.

Their overall motivation was the capturing of the post-WW1 Russian market, then as now, the largest untapped market in the world. Their decision to support Bolshevism was apolitical and amoral. The mercenary businessmen of Wall Street recognized early on that, because of the arrested development inherent in socialistic, planned economies they are, essentially, a captive black market for capitalistic big business to exploit at their leisure. Also, as Sutton points out, Bolshevists and bankers also share significant common ground – internationalism. Revolution and international finance are not at all inconsistent if the result of revolution is to establish more centralized authority as international finance prefers to deal with central governments.

>> No.18552559

>>18552455
Yeah, great, leftists are retards too. If you weren’t also a retard, you’d know that that’s no excuse to be a fashcuck. Oh well, have fun with your faggy marches

>> No.18552642

>>18552559
>implying I'm gonna associate with anyone going on fucking marches
also, what are you

>> No.18552664

>>18552222
>In his book on Henry Ford and Ford Motor, the automaker was firm in his belief that introducing capitalism was the best way to undermine communism. In any case, Ford’s assistance in establishing motor vehicle production facilities in the USSR would greatly impact the course of world events, as the ability to produce these vehicles helped the Soviets defeat Germany on the Eastern Front during World War II. In 1944, according to Brinkley, Stalin wrote to the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, calling Henry Ford “one of the world’s greatest industrialists” and expressing the hope that “may God preserve him.”

Capitalism and Communists siding to defeat National Socialism, kek.

>> No.18552673
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18552673

>>18552090
Fascism wasn't really anti-Semitic though in its original form, was it? There were Jewish fascists in Mussolini's ranks, along with his mistress. It was probably less anti-Semitic at the time than mainstream politics in a lot of European countries, now that I'm thinking about it.

>>18552100
The idea of American socialists being "completely nationalist" is utterly bizarro. Eugene Debs was the most prominent of them and was an internationalist and uncompromisingly pro-immigrant. You should read his speeches about immigration, it will shock your senses. There was also the IWW (International Workers of the World) who were a big deal in the U.S. and were not nationalists. However, many socialist parties split over the question of whether to support their national governments in World War I (as Mussolini did). Those splits caused a lot of problems, and it's also where Leninism popped out and that was considered pretty extreme, you could say, by arguing for "revolutionary defeatism" where you literally advocate your own country to lose a war.

What also benefited the fascists in Italy is that Mussolini pivoted to be MORE RADICAL than the rather tame, squishy, reformist social-democratic left. It's easy to forget, but social democracy was a major force at the time in a lot of places including Germany before World War I. But they didn't really do much with it. Mussolini's black-shirted legionaries had avant-garde energy that these social democrats lacked (but the later Bolsheviks would capture). In a sense, the fascists were ontologically more like the anarchists at the time, which might be why proto-fascists and anarchists could rub shoulders at Fiume.

But IMO, the right wingers who joke about blue-haired communists... they don't really seem like "fascists" to me. They're just like conservatives, while it feels like "fascists" would try to position themselves as more radical in a sense. Not conservative. I think like this honestly:

https://youtu.be/gYG_4vJ4qNA

>> No.18552687

>>18552642
Not a retard, that’s what

>> No.18552698

>>18551065
And they say /lit/ humor is trash lol

>> No.18552777

>>18552687
meaning?

>> No.18552784
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18552784

>>18552055
>Not only did it have this anti-bourgeois critical stance in common with the left, it derived much of it from the left directly.
This gets it, I think. The idea seems like their problem is not so much with people being commanded and ordered around, and higher and lower orders, but that the bourgeoisie in their day was decadent, inefficient, ineffective. The booj didn't have the verve and energy to save what the fascists perceived as a moribund and dying nation. The fascists attracted people from across classes, but a lot of land-owning middle class types, shopkeepers, and also demobilized soldiers who despised the bourgeoisie and believed in a kind of muscular front-line military comradeship as opposed to a left-wing socialist comradeship. Then there were avant-garde types in the mix, and like you said, they borrowed some stances from the left -- and could even be confused for a left-wing movement in the beginning, but once taking power, you see how the chips fell.

You know who this reminds me of today? Well you're looking at one. She's not a conservative. She likes to play with the communists, she has a kind of avant-garde futurist weirdness (it helps she can afford it), plus the background she chose while offering a recent "proposition" to the communists is an image of a power-seeking villain who betrays his former allies (top 10 anime betrayals). I think people like her, and people around her feel like the other boojies and the liberal politicians don't have the will and spirit to do stuff, to overcome inefficiencies, and they'd probably like to install themselves in power. That sounds kind of crazy, but they're still going to be around in 10 years, things could get a lot worse in that timeframe, and this is who they're competing against:

https://youtu.be/DaLvbTJMtxk?t=716

>> No.18552803

>>18552777
I don’t need an ideology, I pick whatever works. Trail and error is what works, and ideologies stink and are for retards

>> No.18552810

>>18552784
What the fuck is with the CCPboo tankies? How can you see that sub-human bug nation and think it's anything other than a prototype for the future slave slurry the elites want to turn us all into?

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