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/lit/ - Literature

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[ERROR] No.18790155 [Reply] [Original]

>he didn't take the "STEM degree, humanities self-study"pill

>> No.18790226

I did

>> No.18790251

I've dropped out of college 5 times, jokes on you.

>> No.18790265

Best pill.

>> No.18790266

how is that possible? what did you do?

>> No.18790267

this is the first time I have ever felt validated by an external source. thank you.

>> No.18790268

i did actually. probably wouldve been better off with an english degree though, considering how i only plan on actually being an engineer to pay off the loans i accrued while studying to be one

>> No.18790274

good fren

>> No.18790276

plato literally says you need to go into STEM lmao

>> No.18790287

everyone becomes an engineer for the money, while usually having other non-engeering plans on the side

>> No.18790289

I am mentally disabled. I just can't focus for lengths of time. It is depressing being taught, I have a problem with teachers/professors. That's about it. My majors were:
>International Relations
>Creative Writing
>Information Technology
Also, I drank a lot when I went to school.

>> No.18790301

>He isn't joking
Why are tripfags like this?

>> No.18790303

thats my plan however engineering work (any work really) sounds awful, and i'm just using my degree like a whore while i figure out some other exploits to wile away the time with, maybe working on a cargo ship or something

>> No.18790307

>Also, I drank a lot when I went to school
You deserve to be in debt

>> No.18790311

Oh, I'm sorry to hear that, anon. Is it severe ADHD or something? I'm assuming you took meds and they were either ineffective or had bad side-effects. Are you doing well now?

>> No.18790323

I studied math like Plotinus told me to

>> No.18790326

Are you me? I'm Econ not STEM but I make pretty good money doing data analysis but after a few years of this I can't imagine doing it for 4 fucking decades and the idea of working on a ship has recently popped into my head because apparently it's really good money and you only have to work like half the year. The only problem is that you need to go to like a 2 year $80,000 academy if you want actually become an officer and make 6 figures instead of being a scrub

>> No.18790349

It's the meds that ruin my concentration, not the other way around. I'm massively depressed and going to therapy. I don't have money to drink, or I would be at the bar rather than coming here annoying people by simply wanting to have a consistent personality that perhaps something good can come from.

>> No.18790368

Is therapy helping at least? Compared to before, are you fairing better now?

>> No.18790371

>I can't imagine doing it for 4 fucking decades
me neither, and what does that even imply? i work as a thing in a building, and then at the end of it, some decades later, i have money and i can sit and think? my brain does not accept the plain fact of the matter

>The only problem is that you need to go to like a 2 year $80,000 academy if you want actually become an officer and make 6 figures instead of being a scrub
yea or working on an oil rig in the sea, literally anything remote for a good period of time. i'd be a deckhand happily

>> No.18790372

I wonder how many people on /lit/ did this. Maybe this is why actual humanities fags get so irrationally mad when we post.

>Graduated with high distinction in a maths degree
>Year after graduating have lots of free time
>Read a bunch of classic lit
>Eventually get into Plato and other philosophy
>Talk with fellow STEMchads on /lit/ about my so favourite books like master and margarita
>HUMfags get triggered that I don't interpret the book the way their college professors wanted them to
>HUMfags get triggered by my rejection of the a priori, despite coming from a degree that is considered purely 'a priori' and thus having the most experience in understanding it

>> No.18790376

>yea or working on an oil rig in the sea
You have an engineering degree, whatever it is, I'm sure you can find work on an offshore rig.

>> No.18790381

It helps because she reads my prose, and it’s an intelligent conversation. I don’t get that very often.

>> No.18790387

Oh, that's good to hear. I hope your situation improves further, anon. Keep your chin up.

>> No.18790398

Most of the time they don't even lose their shit because you have opinions that differ from theirs, just hearing "STEM" is enough.

>> No.18790410

>he didn't take the self-sustaining adult who runs a small business rather than being an academia cuck slave pill

>> No.18790546

This thread fills me with regret. Wish I could get those fat STEM bucks. I'll likely be stuck waging for life cause I lack the creativity and intelligence to do anything different. fml

>> No.18790565

It's never too late for a STEM diploma, you know. It gets you the same kind of bux that higher degrees would, but at just a slower rate. In fact, you may not believe this, but in the market there's more demand for skilled manual workers than there is for grey collar workers. It's a matter of logistics, you ideally want more boots-on-ground workers than planners at any point in time. A STEM diploma arguably has more job opportunities available to it than higher degrees (with the pay off being a lower pay, but Diplomas have very good climbing potential, and you'll be making the big bux in no time).

>> No.18790602

I'm doing this right now, going through a CS degree while doing humanities stuff as a hobbies. Also, don't read another person's thoughts on something before wiring down your own. Also, take the Trivium pill.

>> No.18790609

I'm doing this right now, going through a CS degree while doing humanities stuff as a hobbie. Also, don't read another person's thoughts on something before writing down your own. Also, take the Trivium pill.

>> No.18790677

If you go down this route your humanities studies will only ever be a hobby and your knowledge will be accordingly superficial. I'm a Phil PhD and I all I can do is cringe when "based STEMchads" try to give me their undergraduate takes on Plato's Apology or something.

>> No.18790681

Currently doing this now; getting a degree in the humanities just isn't practical job-wise, and self-studying is easier and more rewarding than ever with the internet

>> No.18790708

>I'm a Phil PhD and I all I can do is cringe when "based STEMchads" try to give me their undergraduate takes on Plato's Apology or something.
Or in other words >>18790372

>> No.18790728

I'm not "triggered" in the slightest. I just feel embarrassed for those who think they know more than me about my chosen subject because they've decided to study it as a hobby.

>> No.18790744

Yeah it must be a stab in the pride, right? Here you are, spent 9 years of your life for a Philosophy degrees, reading books while having little in the way of career prospects and monetary compensation, and then these loaded STEMfags who read for pleasure pull up on you and call you a pseud, refusing to elaborate further.

>> No.18790777

>yea or working on an oil rig in the sea, literally anything remote for a good period of time. i'd be a deckhand happily
Yeah and the problem is that I'd have to do this soon because once you have kids you really can't do that kind of shit

>> No.18790794

Stab in the pride? No, not at all. I would never trade what I have for what the "STEMchads" have. The idea of reading for pleasure is itself abhorrent to me. The whole affair is just embarrassing more than anything.

>> No.18790828

I already have a humanities degree going back to college to get another undergrad degree just seems like treading water

>> No.18790956


>> No.18790959

It's an option 's all I'm saying. An engineering diploma only takes like a year to complete, and it instantly opens a whole new world of very gainful employment to you compared to a humanities degree.

>> No.18790978

>An engineering diploma only takes like a year to complete
What are you talking about, it would take 3 years minimum and like $100k of extra debt.

>> No.18790985

3 years? Where are you finding this, no diploma degree in anything takes 3 years, maybe 2 years max, but not three. And the price varies, don't meme yourself into applying for prestigious schools, no one actually gives a shit aside from wall street and ivy yuppie circles.

>> No.18790995

What STEMcucks refuse to tell you is that what they refer to as "money-making majors" only refers to CS and not much else. Any hard science bachelor's like chemistry or physics is about as worthless as a humanities major when it comes to finding a job in your field of study, and engineering is incredibly saturated since every unambitious "smart but lazy" dweeb was pushed into the field by out-of-touch parents and teachers when there really aren't that many engineering jobs to go around.
So unless you're interested in coding useless bloatware for 12 hours a day, you're shit outta luck.

>> No.18790999

>What STEMcucks refuse to tell you is that what they refer to as "money-making majors" only refers to CS and not much else.
Is this the newest HUMfag cope?

>> No.18791005

Anon what the fuck are you talking about, an undergraduate degree takes 4 years standard, sometimes 5 if it's something like architecture. I assume going back to get a second one would lower that down to 3 since you don't have to take gen eds the second time around just in-major courses. Even some top 50 state school is going to be like $100k for an undergrad degree.

>> No.18791016

Hard STEM degrees are definitely not an instant road to a big money job, but you have the engineering thing backwards. CS is saturated as fuck but if you get something like electrical engineering you're pretty much guaranteed an interesting, well-paying job.

>> No.18791017

I honestly wish I could go back and do something in the humanities instead. Yeah STEM money is nice and all but in the end it's just money; it'll never make up for the soullessness of what I'm doing. And I barely have any time for my humanities studies between working fulltime and life anyway. All my humanities friends know so much more about the world than me fml.

>> No.18791021

>humanities self study
Reminder that all the books on the humanities you read were written by people who dedicated their life to it. You will never contribute to that corpus of knowledge, and you will never have anything more than an extremely shallow surface level understanding

>> No.18791023

Anon. Where the actual fuck are you getting this from? Show me your sources. Engineering diplomas never go for three years, matter of fact, they can even go for less than a year, and as for cost, they can be as low as $35K. A diploma isn't a "bachelor's lite" dude.

>> No.18791028

I accept your concession.

>> No.18791032

Dunning kruger

>> No.18791033

A diploma what are you talking about? I am long past high school I am talking about college.

>> No.18791034

Good boy, accepting my concession unto you to become my footstool, how fitting of your station.

>> No.18791044

What, did you think I was talking about bachelor degrees? And also, colleges have diploma courses, it's not the same thing as a high school diploma.

>> No.18791058

A diploma is just the paper they physically give you when you graduate with a degree. I mean yeah I could just take random courses at a college without getting a degree I guess but that would not allow me to get an engineering job

>> No.18791066

>go to community college
>transfer to university
>tell goverment and I have no parental support financially
>get everything paid for
>major in history
>spend two years studying and researching under historians I have been reading for years prior
>spend time pursuing philosophy and math on the side
>have time to work on personal projects in unrelated subjects
>graduate with a 3.9 gpa, $0 debt
>get into a bunch of law schools
>easily negotiate lowering tuition by almost 80% with one t14 school
>just graduated and passed bar with barely any debt
>starting $180k a year job in September
Feels good. Never enjoyed stem subjects. Nothing against them, but it always was sterile and soulless to me. Do not have the inherent interest.
I'm going to live with my parents for a few years paying off the last of my tuition quickly and dumping 95% of everything else in investments to build up a big cushion. I hope to retire or at least work a part time remote consulting by the time I'm 40

>> No.18791072

It absolutely would, an engineering diploma is not like any of those meme courses where you just ghost classes for most of the year and they hand you a paper all the same. It's very hands-on. They teach you all sorts of practical skills on top of theory. And like I said, manual workers are always in demand in the industry, unlike grey collars, you will have no problem finding a job the instant you get that paper. And you also get tons of benefits that higher degrees might not, like health insurance, work environment compensation, etc. it's pretty good man.

>> No.18791079

And like I said, I'm NOT talking about an undergrad. An engineering should not take more than 1.5 years, and should not cost any more than 45K, and even that might be pushing it.

>> No.18791083

Don't understand the people who don't get jobs with humanities degrees. I mean the field is tight I get it and you won't get immediately after you graduate but you have to be lazy and ignorant to not make an effort to establish a resume that'll allow you to: translate, teacher abroad, teacher domestically, editor, etc etc. Like if you work on an English degree for four years and don't make an effort once to email professors from not only your own but verious unis your just a dumbass.

Obviously it doesn't pay as good but I enjoy it and am learning some STEM topics here and there on my own.

>> No.18791084

An engineering diploma should not***

>> No.18791091

My condolences. Didn't read the rest.

>> No.18791093


>> No.18791097

>shits on stem for being soulless
>goes into law
just lmaoing my head off

>> No.18791098

What are you talking about if you're not talking about undergrad? In order to get a diploma for a degree in undergrad you have to complete the full amount of credits that usually takes like 3-4 years and like $100k. If you're not taking enough courses to get the degree's actual diploma then you're just taking random courses that are worth nothing.

>> No.18791100

Have fun working 80 hours per week doing bitch work. I make $70k per year and I guarantee you will end up making less per hour than me in Big Law because I work like 35 hours per week tops.

>> No.18791107

>having to work at all
Must suck being a pleb. Trying being born rich next time retard.

>> No.18791125

Again, cope.
You work big law for a couple years to put in on your resume and then leave to a small practice working a typical 9-5. And while your salary is basically capped except for the 0.1% who manage to break 120k a year law has incremental and guaranteed raises until making $300k+ only a few years after you started working is extremely common to those who graduated from a good school and aren't in the public sector
Source: my dad and uncle were lawyers

>> No.18791130

>Again, cope.
I will cope with my besouled existence, yes. You, on the other hand, a soulless automaton, won't have to.

>> No.18791132

Nice job, ignore the seethers. Just typical burnouts who never planned for anything or created a strategy for educational and career advancement that makes life easy

>> No.18791139

>law is for soulless automatons
Cringe pop culture cliche peddled by retards who bombed the lsat or got sued

>> No.18791143

>muh soulless lawyer cope
Lmao what are you 16?

>> No.18791147

I took the "work with hands developing actual skills, philosophy/theology self-study" pill.
Feels so nice to be able to actually create something representing the forms. Rather than tapping away at a keyboard to make the acquisition of capital more efficient for others :^)

>> No.18791162

Soulless cope.

>> No.18791166

you will never be saul goodman

>> No.18791173

I took the LSAT and have talked to a lot of lawyers and I never met one that said they were happy being a lawyer or one who encouraged me to become a lawyer, they universally seem to hate their jobs and discourage other people from going into it.

>> No.18791174

you will never own a house

>> No.18791183

Is an engineering or physics degree better for getting a job? Course paths are nearly identical.

>> No.18791185

Engineering by far

>> No.18791188

>born rich
>don't have to worry about any of this bullshit
Fucking hell lads, I genuinely feel for you all.

>> No.18791189

Engineering for sure, especially electrical engineering.

>> No.18791222

Pretty much every "prestigious" career has the exact same thing. I have talked to loads of doctors, lawyers, pharmacists, engineers, professors, architects, dentists, bankers, ect. And they all have the same "oh my God this job sucks this career sucks never do it! I want to kill myself!!" I think it's just archtype cliche they pick up in school that that they play out to "fit in". Go to 99% of jobs and I'm sure the majority of people there also "hate it".

>> No.18791240

My brother is a lawyer. Lives in a small town with his own practice. Goes to work at 8, leaves at 5. Knows everybody in the community. Makes good money. Has hobbies and a family. He seems happy to me. What lawyers were you talking to? I think the miserable ones are the non obsessed strivers who ended up in big law or the shit school graduates making 40k a year at the local superior court

>> No.18791258

Idk I feel like I've heard that with doctors too but most of those other things? Definitely not. Pretty much every dentist, architect, or engineer I've met has seemed pretty happy with their jobs. With lawyers it just seemed exceptional to me that literally every single one I ever talked to very strongly recommended against becoming a lawyer.

I live in a suburb near NYC so almost everyone I've talked to was at the very least from a worthwhile school. Some had been in Big Law when they were younger but most were corporate lawyers now. The ones that weren't were burnt the fuck out and seemed seemed like they didn't think it was worth it to have done what they did. They were pretty much all boomers too if I think about it so they even got into it before the employment market got completely saturated. Most of the boomers I know who seem content with their jobs are either corporate businessmen who made it far enough in the strive to live comfortably or they're engineers/some sort of STEM sort of job.

>> No.18791285

Neither will anyone else because the government will forever own the land, dick head. Have fun being forced onto the street and given less than market value so a toll road can be built.

>> No.18791298

Architects complaining about the industry and their jobs is a very common occurrence. Look up anything online where architects advise others about getting into the career and 90% will say not to do it
t. architect

>> No.18791312

STEMcels fear the Archaeology Chad

>> No.18791339

>If you go down this route your humanities studies will only ever be a hobby and your knowledge will be accordingly superficial

Didn't humanities begin as a hobby for the wealthy? Also, I entirely disagree. I disagree because someone could theoretically do the same for STEM. Looking back on my degree, the only thing university had that I couldn't acquire via my own means was access to a laboratory. All the knowledge, concepts, understandings, etc... were in the textbooks. For humanities, you don't need a laboratory, since you aren't trying to refract lasers or extract molecules. You're just thinking. Thinking thinking thinking. Thinking and reading. All the knowledge exists in books. Most universities put the reading list online for free if you don't want to choose your own study path. There is actually no reason to go to university for humanities, even if you struggle to understand certain books, there are countless lectures online, by real college professors. Why are those professors' lectures not correct, whereas yours are? Academia is obsolete in the age of the internet.

>> No.18791341

why do STEMfags feel compelled to make threads like this, on the literature board? why do you care whether someone studied numbers or not? way to keep shitting up this board

>> No.18791359

I hate my data analytics job
wish i was just born rich and i could travel and have fun adventures and fuck thai prostitutes

>> No.18791361

His parents are obviously rich anon.

>> No.18791370

I did this, and it's kinda tough seeing how to sustain it. The money's good, and I've got a cushy WFH job at a household name tech company, but I really don't give a single fuck about programming or other related fields, so I never look up trade developments or do any kind of studying beyond the bare minimum. I only keep my head above water at my job, feels like, never swim, and honestly I would only care to if the threat of termination lit a fire under my ass, which it hasn't for the three plus years I've been working here.

>> No.18791371

>hobby for the wealthy
Yes and because they were wealthy they didn't have to work and could dedicate all their time to it and thus wasn't a hobby at all.
>You're just thinking.
Spoken by someone who has never studied the humanities at a postgraduate level. Just so fucking embarrassing.

>> No.18791395

Oh sorry I forgot about the survey monkey questionnaire right of passage bullshit lmao.

>> No.18791457

The difference between autodidacticism and institutional study is the difference between doing history of [discipline] and actually making contributions to said discipline—actually partaking in it. Proponents of the former, due to their lack of access to the bleeding edge of their discipline of choice, are simply unable to position their own thought relative to said discipline. This inability manifests as an insecurity and is expressed in /lit/'s single-minded preference for studying primary sources, especially ancient ones, long overcome by institutional study; their disdain for commentary and secondary scholarship and their off-hand dismissal of contemporary academic contributions as being the sole product of progressive and leftist ideology. The difference is one of cope.

>> No.18791527

If, and this is purely hypothetical, the userbase of /lit/ becomes more influential than institutes of study, then couldn't it be said that /lit/ would overtake said institutes in their legitimacy?

Furthermore, you are basically saying that humanities is subjective, and its field of study is a fleeting idea which is subject to change rapidly based on popular [institutional] consensus. Compare this to STEM where a mathematical proof, or a carefully constructed experiment, is the necessary drive for change. That is, developments in STEM are based on non-human elements, some kind of external reference point.

Irrespective of modern developments in ideas, irrespective of some ideology, or social conditions, STEM progresses for all. It selects without discrimination, without judgement. With this in mind, STEM is not only the most objective field, but also the most egalitarian and equitable, since one can advance in mathematics with as little as a pen and paper and a few good ideas. HUMfags rely on connections and 24/7 access to a deluge of drivel. Their brains are swarming with propaganda that is distracting them from becoming their true selves.

Is STEM thus not the most humanitarian of all fields? STEM does not care for nationality, for your background, for your level of education. STEM embraces those whose innovation has allowed them to come to a new conclusion, STEM encourages all such minds to enter into it and to add to it. It is selfish, it is logical, it is... to put it simply, the most human of all fields.

But please, tell me exactly how a humanities postgraduate *needs* to be in an institution in order to be above the self educated man. Please tell me how Melville managed to write one of the most praised, discussed, and lauded literary works despite being entirely self-taught. I'm all ears :^)

>> No.18791540

>tfw work in a trade
>study humanities in my free time

anyone else? i'm a stone mason so at least i can imagien myself as a roman slave if i try hard

>> No.18791568

i worked on a church steeple once and legit thought i was in the 14th century

>> No.18791571

I dropped out twice and God forbid I might drop out next year again.
Any tips?

>> No.18791611

>paragraph 1
A STEMfag can dream.
>paragraph 2
>you are basically saying that humanities is subjective
Quote me.
>paragraph 3 and 4
>It selects without discrimination, without judgment
Please learn the history of your own discipline. Science has always progressed according to whims and fancies of those carrying it out. It is no different from the humanities proper in that sense. Christ have mercy this is embarrassing. Read Lakatos or Feyerabend or something.
>paragraph 5
>tell me exactly how a humanities postgraduate *needs* to be in an institution in order to be above the self educated man
He doesn't need to be. If he wants to be though, then joining an institution is the way. This is how:
>Proponents of the former, due to their lack of access to the bleeding edge of their discipline of choice, are simply unable to position their own thought relative to said discipline.

>> No.18791816

Seems like a whole lot of seethe. You come into this thread to try justify your own poor choices. You want other people to respect you because you did it "properly", and you want us to respect the method. It's reminiscent of Christian missionaries trying to spread the good word, but you're failing horribly.

>muh bleeding edge
Humanities' "bleeding edge" is just a perpetual multi-faceted tug of war where the retard with the most money backing him ends up with the upper hand. Real developments made by people with real innovation eventually creep through, and this is what you despise. You're a weed, you always were and always will be. You're a weed in a garden of weeds. The fruit you bear is not your own, nor will it ever be. An acorn lurks outside your garden, you pay it no heed because it is so small and beneath you now. Give it a century, this acorn will uproot everything you once held dear. This acorn will have shaped humanity, it will shape the weeds around it, and in will come new weeds, thinking that they and the oak are the same, all the while scorning the next oak who is but an acorn.

You are not, and never will be, what you aspire to be. You live in vain.

>> No.18791858

I dropped out once. Enrolled in community college, dropped out again. Enrolled in community college again for a year and now transferring to university. I want to drop out

>> No.18791970

Didn't read past the second the sentence. You will never be as knowledgeable as me or anyone else who put the work in in the right places. Cope more.

>> No.18791978

>An acorn lurks outside your garden, you pay it no heed because it is so small and beneath you now. Give it a century, this acorn will uproot everything you once held dear. This acorn will have shaped humanity, it will shape the weeds around it, and in will come new weeds, thinking that they and the oak are the same, all the while scorning the next oak who is but an acorn.
cringe dude just stop. you're giving team STEM a bad name.

>> No.18792051

i don't believe in science and i've never "self-studied" in my life

>> No.18792062

>I've dropped out of college 5 times

>> No.18792078

Dude learn a trade, honest advice. A career isn't necessary the path for everyone.

>> No.18792118

To be honest I've found more philosophy in Information Theory Basics book than in greeks, romans, brit, french or german authors.

>> No.18792155

HUMbugs deluding themselves yet again. Many such cases!

>> No.18792600

i did, actually. Though im no longer involved in academia because holy shit academic life sciences are a nightmare.

>> No.18792662

I think he’s talking about a certificate, desu. Like a certificate in welding or something. Basically tech school stuff

>> No.18792685

Holy fuck your thumb, anon.

>> No.18792690

Should've taken a STEM undergrad instead of my humanities. Even though I got a first in philosophy and my dissertation got 94% I'm still unemployable kek

>> No.18792752

That’s exactly what I did though

>> No.18792768

Every "self-study" fag is a retard or a hack, just accept you're approaching the subject as a hobby and not a study and sit quiet while the big brains talk.

>> No.18792787

This isn’t engineering and in the USA he legally would not be able to call himself an engineer with just a certificate. He must be a Britbong where the title “engineer” isn’t protected, so you can call yourself an engineer even if you repair refrigerators (which is probably a more respectable profession anyway so fuck it)

>> No.18792804

name 1 thing you don't know

>> No.18792810

I'm into humanities because I suck at math. What more do you want from me?

>> No.18792824

Not him but I'd trade my CS job for the ability to speak Ancient Greek or classical musical training any day.

>> No.18792848

>speak Ancient Greek
why? just read Thomas Taylor's translations.
>classical music training
fair enough, but you are born a hundred plus years too late to avoid modern and post-modern professors. you'd probably walk away from it with some autistic obsession with atonal "art rock" or jazz

>> No.18792870

>atonal "art rock" or jazz professors
This is just a meme cooked up by coping STEMfags. My muso friends went to great schools with none of that bullshit.

>> No.18792889

>tfw have a History MA
>it's worthless (like most degrees)

>> No.18792909

post something your friend composed

>> No.18792920

I think stem fags are better equipped to study, understand and practise philosophy given that their disciplines are literally applied philosophy unlike the humanities fags who graduate in philosophy and move on to serve coffee at Starbucks. Perhaps the lucky ones become academics but I would call that hardly lucky because academia is infested with idpol.

>> No.18792924

Dropped 2 times. Doing Computer Science now.

>> No.18792931

I mean, it's definitely possible to know more than a philosophical and even history graduate (unless they become an academic/historian). All you need is an e-book, internet connection and time.

>> No.18792937

Wish I had. I finished a business major but now I'm basically working at CS and studying for it.

>> No.18792955

I ended up having to drop computer science in the third year after getting the highest marks in all of my classes because of the damned group projects. It's physically painful and unbearable. Just beware of that if you think you'll be able to power through the degree without dealing with other retards.

>> No.18792989

Possible, yes, I've never seen it happen though. Autodidacts grossly overestimate their ability.

>> No.18793002

>I think stem fags are better equipped to study, understand and practise philosophy

>> No.18793015

It might be news to your type (who are basically filled with a strange type of ressentiment which rejects all self-sufficiency outside of officially approved mediums), but it is very much possible to acquire a professional qualification in a technical, non-humanities field (which is proof of raw intellectual capability, which humanities don't have), and use those same objective skills to become extremely advanced by oneself in another soft field. The skills acquired in the former are basically like intellectual ritalin for so-called "soft sciences", because one acquires a hyper-objective and critical viewpoint, which only requires assimilations of terminology and concepts before it can blow through an entire soft-science with minimal resistance.
> I'm a Phil PhD and I all I can do is cringe when "based STEMchads" try to give me their undergraduate takes on Plato's Apology or something.
There is no objective interpretation of Apology, for starters, this is what I mean by "strange ressentiment", unless you're referring to people simply misunderstanding the dialogue entirely and thinking that Socrates is trying to argue in favor of pederasty or something weird. This is your type feeling threatened by others who are encroaching upon a field you've spent money and time on. Academic philosophy is also one of the most intellectually fragile of all fields, due to the very nature of philosophy itself, which is both simple and complex. It is highly subjective in one sense, because one has to select one's own philosophical axioms to work with, and likewise, even a single error in someone else's philosophy can be grounds to reject the entire thing, which can, from a certain person's perspective, invalidate almost a lifetime of academic study of someone else who dedicated their time to a silly or very weak philosophical position (which, in some sense, is almost all of them). Of course, you might have lots of "knowledge", which is to say encyclopaedic knowledge, but very poor real philosophical insight or intellectual ability (again, showing why mathematics and other "hard sciences" are extremely useful intellectual backbones).

>> No.18793025

Its in Republic, in the section re the training of philosopher kings.

>> No.18793029

It's due to the lack of discipline and perhaps study skills. If you don't feel pressured to succeed then you probably won't care as much.

>> No.18793055

wonderful he just BTFOd all of ethics and political philosophy, the only reason he hasn’t been beheaded yet, and the reasoning behind every civil war ever fought
>is reality real? who knows? i declare this subject useless!
i wonder how they reconcile this with Einstein finding Spinoza congenial or Whitehead or the other million examples

>> No.18793060

Lack of time is another huge factor; you'll never make any real contributions if what you're doing is just a hobby. Lack of resources is another; the relationships you form with peers and seniors in postgraduate level study being invaluable to proper study.

>> No.18793065

I had a sense that you would link to Bill Nye.
The fact that they are better equipped doesn't mean that they will succeed.
It means that if they had a genuine interest in philosophy then they could relate to it a lot more than simply a philosophical graduate. Many philosophers dwelled in sciences even because it wasn't until the 19th century that sciences divorced philosophy, they used to be the same thing.

>> No.18793081

>before it can blow through an entire soft-science with minimal resistance
I've yet to see an autodidact actually accomplish this. The best I've seen is undergraduate level understandings. Then again, autodidacts don't actually have a reference point for what constitutes real scholarship. Perhaps this is what they think it is.

>> No.18793100

>Lack of time is another huge factor; you'll never make any real contributions if what you're doing is just a hobby
These two statements are non-sequiturs. A hobby, if one has plenty of time to begin with, could possibly make one more productive than if one were forced to pursue it in a professional setting. If one's time is consumed by other work to a significant degree, then you're probably right; but the mere fact that it is a hobby does not actually say all that much. The reality of the person's situation is still dependent upon extraneous factors.

>> No.18793117

>This is your type feeling threatened by others who are encroaching upon a field...
No "encroaching" is occurring and no one is feeling threatened either. Serious scholars don't even know you exist.

>> No.18793123

Nice cope brah

>> No.18793138

>I've yet to see an autodidact actually accomplish this.
What is your sample size, where are you collecting your data?
>autodidacts don't actually have a reference point for what constitutes real scholarship
"Real scholarship" in academic parlance is simply a strong familiarity with brute facts, or like I said, encyclopaedic knowledge, which is validated by other academics. It's possible that any given autodidact, due to the nature of self-learning, chooses not to learn every single fact in a given specialized area because, at a certain point, learning a greater number of simple facts provides vastly diminishing returns to general understanding which could be spent in more fruitful domains; which is to say, the progression from basic and essential knowledge to subtle types of knowledge. It's obvious, for example, that knowledge of an extremely basic factoid of a given philosopher's religious background is far more important than what year they first entered school, or the minute details of how their philosophical attitude changed between the years of 30 and 40 (which itself is not generally relevant to the validity of their ideas). What I've just said should be considered with respect to what Nietzsche and others have already said about "reading oneself stupid." This encyclopaedic knowledge, also from my own personal experience, provides a vastly inflated view of their own intellectual capabilities in the more important domains of general (holistic, which becomes obvious very quickly to those who have broad educations when conversing with the specialist) and analytic/critical understanding.

>> No.18793142

any finance chads in chat?

>> No.18793144

This is what I mean.

>> No.18793148

Don't be so insecure anon no one will scoop your new paper on gender queer studies

>> No.18793152

What a pointless and pedantic response. Let me cut through the autism. Which hypothesis is more likely to be borne out by the evidence:
>for a given discipline, a hobbyist is more likely to exhibit a greater knowledge of said discipline than a professional scholar
>for a given discipline, a professional scholar is more likely to exhibit a greater knowledge of said discipline than a hobbyist

>> No.18793181

We're not interested in "more likely", we're interested in mere possibilities. If you had better critical thinking skills you would have already noticed this, and not bothered with that pointless response (which is equivalent to asking whether a superset contains a subset or itself, and not relevant to the topic at hand).

>> No.18793201

>"Real scholarship" in academic parlance is simply a strong familiarity with brute facts
Real scholarship constitutes the ability to perform a selective synthesis at tension point within a discipline so as to generatively unravel it. It absolutely is NOT what you think it is and the fact that you believe otherwise is evidence that you've never performed scholarship let alone studied in the humanities at a postgraduate level.

>> No.18793215

>mere possibilities
They're mere, alright.

>> No.18793237

>Real scholarship constitutes the ability to perform a selective synthesis at tension point within a discipline so as to generatively unravel it.
Selective synthesis is nothing when there is no science to begin with. "Social sciences" are not scientific, and there is no objective criteria for performing such syntheses. Hence "encyclopaedic" being the main facet of your education.

>> No.18793256

Wish I did the opposite. I don't have any time to study philosophy anymore and all my humanities/arts friends have overtaken me.

>> No.18793433

based. Computer science honours mathematical analysis here, started with the greeks in my own time

>> No.18793578

There's truth to all sides. Humanities has been declining over the past 2 centuries. It's grossly appealed to women through the introduction of fiction as subject material and.... eh it's all so tiresome.

The humanities have a very important role to play. They have not been exercised correctly, however, due to uhhh erhh... ehem... capitalism. We have seen a horrible fetish with process and progress and expediency... Science is unchecked, humanities is being gatekept by retards, the world has become an arena for the swinging of dicks and alas we've forgotten that tiny dicks are the funniest and should thus be given the most applause...

Einstein... Uhhh Descartes... Leonardo Da Vinci... There is just no anything anymore. I blame it all on Hegel.

>> No.18794106


>> No.18794117

I can't even afford supplements to look like that wtf man

>> No.18794118

>The idea of reading for pleasure is itself abhorrent to me.
So you dedicated a decade of your life pursuing something you derive no pleasure from?

>> No.18794503

I only read philosophy in order to better create a vanguard with which to seize control. Once you have power, the intellectuals will simply fall in line and praise whatever system you put in charge, no matter how many contradictions it has.

>> No.18794514

I dropped out of math in 3rd grade, wish it had been presented to me differently so now I drive a truck. Tried the office jab, wasnt for me

>> No.18794574

Anybody who goes into STEM is incapable of the humanities self-studypill, only idleness lovers/NEETs can achieve it.

>> No.18794586

Almost all influential philosophers of the last centuries were not philosophers by trade but they rolled into it from other areas

>> No.18794621

>Christ have mercy this is embarrassing. Read Lakatos or Feyerabend or something.
post a picture of your forearm

>> No.18794625

lmao STEMcuck reads in his free time and it shows

>> No.18794652

Dropped out twice. I'm finishing the third one tho. Two more years

>> No.18794656


Maybe he's European.

>> No.18794736

He wanted to major in interracial

>> No.18794766

>Indeed, university lectures were seen by Thomas Jefferson as unnecessary for the serious pursuit of historical reading. In 1786, Jefferson wrote to his college-age nephew Thomas Mann Randolph, Jr., advising him to pursue the larger part of his education independently. Go ahead and attend a course of lectures in science, Jefferson recommended. But then he added, "While you are attending these courses, you can proceed by yourself in a regular series of historical reading. It would be a waste of time to attend a professor of this. It is to be acquired from books, and if you pursue it by yourself, you can accommodate it to your other reading so as to fill up those chasms of time not otherwise appropriated."
>Throughout his life, books were vital to Thomas Jefferson's education and well-being. When his family home Shadwell burned in 1770 Jefferson most lamented the loss of his books. In the midst of the American Revolution and while United States minister to France in the 1780s, Jefferson acquired thousands of books for his library at Monticello. Jefferson's library went through several stages, but it was always critically important to him. Books provided the little traveled Jefferson with a broader knowledge of the contemporary and ancient worlds than most contemporaries of broader personal experience. By 1814 when the British burned the nation's Capitol and the Library of Congress, Jefferson had acquired the largest personal collection of books in the United States.

>> No.18794870

Being this incompetent is such a privilege.

>> No.18794881

how can you possibly claim that STEM is sterile and soulless, while going into fucking law?

>> No.18794903

How do you find time to read when doing something with an intensive coursework? When I was studying electrical engineering I barely had time to sleep, let alone read for enjoyment.

>> No.18795024

Since I started actually studying Literature I cannot stand this board anymore. It's just so full of retards (i.e., stemcuck hobbyists) repeating their laughable takes about the same topics, usually Nietzsche and entry-level lit classics. Sad thing is I used to love this board as a teenager, but now the bugman philosophy seems so invasive... Just an awful lot of pseuds, all of them philistines and dilettantes.

>> No.18795166

every science has fiction as subject material

>> No.18795201

It's still possible. Therefore it can be done.

>> No.18795251

I took it and dropped out of university. Math was fun but I didn't give enough of a shit about the future to go on.

>> No.18795300

>the idea of working on a ship has recently popped into my head
this is such a fucking attractive idea but im software engineer code monkey

>> No.18795304

>There is no objective interpretation of Apology, for starters
I studied STEM and this is literally an embarrasing take. Jesus.

>> No.18795324

all this cringe, simplistic squabbling when we all know what the true /lit/ path is
>humanities degree, STEM self-study

>> No.18795327

Name them faggot. Bonus points if you don't include Spinoza (17th century lmao).

>> No.18795336

Dropped out 2 times so far, giving it one more try for biochem. If I cant take it after this then Im saying fuck it. Dont even care about the career im just going through it to abuse their faculties like labs and libraries I wouldnt have access to if I self studied, as long as the job isnt overly social and very physical in nature idc what it is. What really matters isnt what career it is, every job in our current society is meaningless. What matters is how much free time and low stress you can maintain while getting enough to get by.
Yeah but desu you have more options. You shouldnt be doing stem for money anyway thats how you end up like most people with golden handcuffs and buyers remorse because you got six fig debt or you wasted your twenties studying shit that is 90% irrelevant
I feel like a lot of people forget about this. Its why philosophy means love of knowledge, its supposed to be blended in with everything. We didnt listen to the greeks however and instead atomized all the subjects into smaller subjects until they become schizobabble when we should be uniting subjects and seeing how they connect not just in stem but with everything. Its ruined science, math and philosophy the most since they're all shit without each other and its how absolute retards hold titles like philosopher or scientist.
this is honestly the best thing to do in our world, being a business owner in the US is absolute hell so I'd probably move first but I'd like to open a bookstore or something.

>> No.18795362

>STEM self-study
unless its math and compsci(lol) only have fun doing this with your non existent money for equipment. Just minor in stem or major in stem and cuck universities for their facilities. There's also way more scholarships and programs for STEM majors you can abuse to have less debt at the end or have a job lined up that you can use to make money then fucking leave

>> No.18795417

he said as he looks at modern humanities course

>> No.18795457

fuck society and fuck being of any use to it, i'd rather be a NEET

>> No.18795491

If enrollment-only counts, it's more like 8 times for me. If been enrolled in mathematics, economics, music, philosophy, theology, computer science, mixed STEM studies, computer science again, media design, and... I think that's it.

>> No.18795497

This. I'm in STEM btw

>> No.18795569

literally any STEM field can be mastered theoretically through self-study.
the apparatuses and experimental/practical shit you talk about have their exact equivalent in the humanities. having access to an oscilloscope is like having access to a philosophy professor; you can only say one is essential for truly understanding a field if you acknowledge that the other is as well. realistically, apart from "double majors" aka undergrad pseuds, you can only have access to one for any worthwhile period of time.
the truly patrician potential of humanities degree and STEM self-study is that you pursue one domain with full institutional backing with little to no material reward, and you pursue the STEM for its own sake yet again and not for any of the basedfaced bugman shit about muh six figures.
through this path, you learn for your own betterment and understanding. truly the only /lit/ lifestyle.

>> No.18795661

I agree that you can self-study STEM. You can self-study almost anything. That said, the only reason to go to a university these days is for the little piece of paper, so you're best off self-studying both.

>> No.18795689

I guarantee that you are incompetent in all of the things that you have "self-studied."

>> No.18795698

Indian doctors. Indian programmers. Indian engineers.

This is a non-exhaustive list of people who are guaranteed "competent" by an institution.

>> No.18795709

>not for any of the basedfaced bugman shit about muh six figures.
Glad we agree on that, money doesnt matter and its just a lure to give you more debt or keep cucking yourself.
Honestly you've given me a good deal to ponder over anon thank you, seriously. I dont know if Ill change my major immediately but you gave me more confidence and understanding to attempt self study instead of believing I need lab equipment, wont change my major immediately but I'll think over some of my next moves thank you friend. I value freedom above all and you've given me another way of possibly doing that.
Honestly the only reason Im even still in is because idk what else to do yet, Im not valued for my strength and while my constitution is better than most of my types and im not autistic, I know I wont be able to last long in a trade. Been considering getting a certificate or something but again most arent anything that suits me. All I really want to do is be a small business owner but I need money to get started of course. You also gave me a lot to think about thanks anon.

>> No.18795713

Get the piece of paper
Become a teacher

It's what I did :^)

>> No.18795751

>The idea of reading for pleasure is itself abhorrent to me

>> No.18795768

Pajeets are generally more compent than you are, this I can also guarantee with very high certainty. They almost always have formal education, and are very ambitious. I work with quite a few of them. You are a retard. Thanks for proving my point.

>> No.18795788

You are pathetic, anon.

>> No.18795821

>another insecure STEMfag cope thread
You will never be as knowledgeable as a humanities major, and you'll never be a woman

>> No.18795845

Thats true but he has a point plenty of “professionals” and “experts” are quacks

>> No.18795856

Uhh just try? College is easy, particularly liberal arts and humanities courses. Like just fucking put some effort into it. I have seen losers fail easy classes because they just didn’t even do an assignment that was basically free credit. Or maybe college just isn’t for you. If you don’t even have a reason to go, then don’t.

>> No.18795861

lol enjoy paying college tuition to study online thanks to covid loser

>> No.18795869

Yes. Let's say that 40-50% of studied experts and professionals are retards. That doesn't change the fact that 97-100% of "autodidacts" are completely clueless.
Feel free to adjust these measures according to taste. You can't really self-teach anything btw, you have no frame of reference of what's correct and what isn't. This is also why autodidacts are always convinced that they are knowledgeable, and that's just painful for everyone else.

>> No.18795944

fair point anon
fair point indeed

>> No.18796054

I think I'm fucked bros...
Dropped multiple times university
Currently studying history with no clue what to do with the degree
Stuck at a minimum wage job
Should I go back to Software engineering or try teaching/army?
I really don't know what to do with my life.I want to live with a decent paying job but I don't want a soulless job either.

>> No.18796064

I majored in Information Technology, failed and dropped out. Planning on going again but for Public Policy this time and hopefully get an internship at the state government

>> No.18796088

I'm just in college for the excellent library access I get. My degree is just busywork so I get get the paper that gets you hired.

>> No.18796100

>failed and dropped out
why? was it especially difficult?

>> No.18796102

>I want to live with a decent paying job but I don't want a soulless job either.
the only way to not have a soulless job imo is being a small business owner but that isnt easy because a lot of them fail before any are stable and even when youre afloat it can get stressful. But since you work for yourself its definitely not soulless though depends on what you're selling. The problem is that every field has lost its soul from the most academic to the most labor intensive, its one of the consequences of our world being shit. Idk what you want to do but whatever you do keep your freedom and your sanity because its going to get worse

>> No.18796107

history to high school teacher pipeline. summers off and a decent union

>> No.18796133

STEM girls seem annoying as shit, I can't imagine going into STEM. Just get study your ass off, get a humanities degree at a T20, and go into finance.

>> No.18796147

thats honestly what im probably going to use my stem degree for at this point

>> No.18796148

>STEM girls seem annoying as shit
Yes, all 2 of them.

The main downside to STEM is that you will remain an unironic virgin til you're at least 21 because of how much you have to study and how little female interaction you will have while studying. The upside is that you don't have to deal with that many women.

>> No.18796149

I'm a data analyst clearly the idea involves learning a different profession, which is part of the allure.

>> No.18796194

>Let's say (hypothetical)
>That doesn't change the fact that (false statistic)

>You can't really self-teach anything btw
What do you mean? Epistemologically speaking, learning is just the process by which one convinces oneself of truth, that is, they teach themselves, thus claiming the knowledge for themselves. The only learning that isn't self-taught is rote learning.

>you have no frame of reference of what's correct and what isn't.
If you let society tell you what to think as 'correct' and 'incorrect', you're ngmi.

I've "taught myself" to cook. I read recipes and watch videos from time to time on the skills. I've never had anyone to say "you should've have done x,y,z" as I cook. I learn through trial and error, and through consulting text on the subject. I have tasted a nice spaghetti, and I have tasted my own spaghetti, and as far as I'm concerned, there is little to no difference. In fact, I prefer my own spaghetti, as I may introduce mushrooms, basil, reduce the amount of tomato, maybe mix in some milk, etc... I experiment with different flavours and ultimately come up with something new that I enjoy.

How is the process of self-teaching cooking by reading and watching videos any different to self-teaching philosophy via reading and watching the odd lecture on the subject? Or any other such humanities subject, for that matter. You need to discuss these ideas, sure, but the internet facilitates that now. It's only sometimes autists like you come in with ad hominem saying "DUHHH YOU'RE NOT DOING IT HOW I WAS TOLD WHAT A MORON". Note how no one on the 'learn from home' side is saying you can't learn through an institution, and yet all the institutionalised bugs are insisting that self-learning is impossible. Says a lot about our society...

>> No.18796216

damn, i know

>> No.18796255

>for the excellent library access I get
Based. I did the same. I majored in STEM but had an adoration for the humanities so I picked most of what I know from frequenting it.
It's like John Ruskin and Proust argued: the best conversations you can have in life are from books because thought is transmitted without any dilution.
I took a high level English class for Milton my senior year and most of my classmates barely did any of the readings. It was mostly 3 other students besides me who contributed to the class discussion and the prof was constantly agitated because no one else spoke up. As a result, most of what I know about Milton came from the library.

>> No.18796284

i found it extremly boring, i had a short lived infatuation with tech but never truly cared about it. also I personally hated online learning desu even though most people thought it made schooling a lot easier

>> No.18796299

he has a point and the internet isnt a a good substitute for this and even though its not easy all you have to do is find companions and if you can a mentor (not as hard desu) that are willing to discuss topics and going on a similar path or studying it. For some reason people think you need to be in league with academia in your echo chamber to discover anything of use when some of the best knowledge came from people just being close and discussing calmly with each other

>> No.18796310

Dont forget humanities majors who obsesses over sociopolitical issues and view the Greeks as "irreverent dead white men". University provided them such a great learning opportunity. It can never be rivaled outside such indoctrination camps.

>> No.18796334

ive seen your posts, this checks out.

>> No.18796377

If you're a chad and can pitch your skills you can do practically anything, if you're an autist you're unfortunately likely to be unemployable.

Undergrads get sold a dream and have no idea how cut-throat most of STEM is.

>> No.18796566

True. University degrees are like video games these days. Pointless, bite sized, pre-made objectives. Bing bing wahoo. Get paper. Only the self-motivated learner gets anything from them. Uni should be for 25+ year olds only.

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