death general

[Anonymous No.18996541]

The only thing all of us have in common is that some day, we will all die. Whatever experience that may occur after your brain dies will be incomprehensible and incommunicable to the living as it will require language to relate.

>OP, I am scared because I will be nothing.

You are only going back to the state you were in before you were born. That you have experienced consciousness at all is an anomaly.

[Anonymous No.18996567]

>>18996541
Not literature

[Anonymous No.18996585]

>>18996567
If an invitation to dialogue about death isn't literature than a third of literature isn't "literature"

[Anonymous No.18996793]

>>18996541
Is dying the most democratic thing ever?

[Anonymous No.18996799]

>>18996541
okay, and?

[Anonymous No.18996818]

honestly, its actually insane that you are going to die. Like it doesn't even feel real to me sometimes. It is almost like the ultimate debt, or school project, or job interview that has a due date you know is coming

[Anonymous No.18997668]

>>18996541
<that you have experienced consciousness is an anomaly.
Ok bro, but how does something come from nothing? How does something, become nothing, when nothing lacks any qualities whatsoever, and thus isn't even a state, that anything can possess? When you die, how is there a cessation, when there is no one witnessing it? Wouldn't you just infinitely approach nothingness but never meet it? Wouldn't you just infinitely disintegrate without end, like a schizo of schizos? Maybe that is what the scriptures meant when they talked about hell - You not arriving anywhere, but endlessly disintegrating into incoherence. Well unless what you are headed towards isn't non-being but rather being itself, pure Being in fact, being qua being, the divine, the Tao/The Logos, and so on. Then you'd be good to go, because you would become more real after death, and you would lovingly give up, what needs to be given up, when that final hour strikes, give it with love, and you'd be given it back tenfold. Let's have hope anons. And let's remain curious, that this is the best world.

[Anonymous No.18997672]

Is there anything everyone should make sure they do before they die?

[Anonymous No.18997681]

>>18997672
have sex

[Anonymous No.18997691]

>>18997681
why?

[Anonymous No.18997736]

>>18997681
I don't believe it

[Anonymous No.18997746]

>>18997668
>Ok bro, but how does something come from nothing? How does something, become nothing
Million different answers give arise to billion different questions and wheel keeps spinning. We should pass out silently.

[Anonymous No.18997809]

>>18997746
nah wittgenstein can ligma

[Anonymous No.18997838]

>>18997672
it doesn't matter what you do or don't do. it's not like you'll care when you're dead

[Anonymous No.18997848]

>>18997838
Well if you don't care now, you are dead already

[Anonymous No.18997850]

>>18997848
>you are dead already
Yes

[Anonymous No.18997857]

>>18997668
Something does not come from nothing with life, you are slowly constructed in your mother womb. Your consciousness is just the synapses firing in your brain you retard. The "soul" or whatever hell you envision for yourself simply doesn't exist, and your consciousness will fade as soon as your brain stops working. This is quite obvious

[Anonymous No.18997863]

>>18997857
Then why do only humans have giant frontal lobes?

[Anonymous No.18997870]

>>18997863
Why do otters have waterproof fur? Why do birds have wings? Homo sapiens were not the only ape to ever develop a large frontal lobe. The primates developed large brains because they were obviously beneficial and improved our chances at survival. Humans have a large brain for a number of reasons them being necessary for complex social relationships and language among them.

[Anonymous No.18997876]

>>18997870
Consciousness is the most dangerous and sharp tool in the nature and there are no satisfying answers for the hard problem of consciousness.

[Anonymous No.18997880]

>>18997870
How is not being an NPC even evolutionarily beneficial when our consciousness and will is clearly fake according to Daniel Dennett?

[Anonymous No.18997892]

>>18997876
Are you retarded or just insane? Consciousness has OP evolutionary advantages . It’s the reason a fleshy weak boned glorified chimpkin can not only survive in the wild but dominate the entire planet as we know it.

[Anonymous No.18997919]

>>18997892
>Consciousness has OP evolutionary advantages
Hmmm like Death anxiety, fear of future tragedies, horrible ways in you and the people around you could die, crushing despair of cosmic loneliness, awareness of slaughter house called history, awareness of billions of years of mindless slaughter in animal kingdom, awareness that just for your survival bulls and chickens go in your mouth and come out from your asshole, awareness of futility, awareness that you're an insignificant being (like the 106 billion people who came on this planet) who will die and will be eaten by worms someday, awareness of tragic sense of history in which eventually all civilization perish and eventually the universe will perish too, awareness that common products that you use are made by slave labour and so and so on.

Only stupid assholes think that consciousness is totally a blessing.

[Anonymous No.18997923]

>>18996541
>The only thing all of us have in common is that some day, we will all die
Proof?

[Anonymous No.18997955]

>>18997892
You are too stupid to understand the hard problem.

[Anonymous No.18998089]

>>18997857
Synapses change all the time, yet sense of self is continous - wat means?
>Consciousness will fade
You will never experience that. Because if you'd experienced it, there still would be consciousness. So how can it happen to you?

And assuming it does happen in the future, then the past and all your life should retroactively get cancelled, time itself should crumble, but if so why is Time occuring right now, given that it is sandwiched between 2 infinities of eternal nothing, one before, one after, both overwriting it to have never been? Like assuming the time of nothing before your birth is infinite, how can it end, and assuming the time after your death is infinite, how can it begin; how can there be a set of time, not included within death.

The crux of this discussion is this, either what you experience is produced by the mind(idealism), thus the contents of experience lack the abillity to affect it's being in any way(the vedantic conclusion to idealism, which basically would make you into the eternal God who lazily observes the world, but that's cringy solipsism ngl), or what you experience is real mind-independently(realism), but then you have to explain the miracle of being given access to the real world with your senses in some way, how there is a constant intelligibillity to everything, and why there is distinction among things, and a distinction between observer and observed. This question posed by realism basically leads to affirming one of two things. Either there are no "real" intelligible objects, only moment to moment flows, and your consciousness is but an illusion inscribed into these flows, meaning you are an appendix to natural processes, which all arise co-dependently(Buddhism, kinda crinj aswell, but also exceedingly based due to how unironically crinj it is willing to be).
Or we arrive at the conclusion, that there is a will that divides things as to be able to interface with each other, yet be wholly distinct aswell. A will that by it's very nature is distinct, from that which it wills, yet omnipresent in the created order and which imbues in the same act willfullness and distinction onto beings. So that living things are made to be distinct, and that their distinction precedes their corporeality, which is caused by their distinction/essence not the other way around(This would be theology, the answer I like most, since I like people being distinct from me, since I am an extrovert, who likes the encounter stuff outside of myself).
In all three internally coherent accounts of how subject and reality interface(which can be summed up as: 1. Reality collapsed into subject. 2. subject collapsed into reality 3. Subject and Reality brought into distinction by super-subject, which is distinct to everything including even reality), we arrive at a debunking of the notion of the annihilation of subjects after death(for Buddhists it has already happenend lul and is happening every second).

[Anonymous No.18998173]

>>18998089
>Synapses change all the time, yet sense of self is continous - wat means?
There are many disorders in which people lose their sense of self.

[Anonymous No.18998191]

>>18996541
Death can't be what we have in common, since death is common only to the dead. What we have in common while still alive is hope. People are only afraid of death because they never felt satisfied with their lives.

[Anonymous No.18998218]

>>18998089
>Synapses change all the time, yet sense of self is continous - wat means?


Synapses do change but here needs to be made a distinction between minor and major synapses. The minors are the ones changing all the time. On the other hand, the majors stay the same so we can maintain our sense of identity and this also happens for the sake of our sanity.

For example when you see yourself in the past you wonder what kind of relationship you could have with that person, how could that be you. But if you meet your childhood friends after lets say 5 years, they will all think that you are still the same. People give each other a certain identity with specific attributes that dont have to neccessarily reflect reality, they just need to make sense and they stick to them. So maintaining certain synapses is part of a social game.

[Anonymous No.18999027]

>>18997892
>Consciousness has OP evolutionary advantages .
No it doesn't, consciousness has no evolutionary purpose
>It’s the reason a fleshy weak boned glorified chimpkin can not only survive in the wild but dominate the entire planet as we know it
That's intelligence, not consciousness, retard
A computer is intelligent but we have no reason to believe it's conscious
Humans could have just evolved as philosophical zombie NPCs with intelligence but no consciousness and still accomplished all we did

Infact, if consciousness has any effect on the brain at all, which we don't know for sure if it does, then that effect is almost certainly evolutionarily disadvantageous, since consciousness simply makes us acutely aware of our suffering amd our horrifying circumstances, while offering no additional tools to deal with these circumstances

Science doesn't even remotely understand consciousness or have evidence of how it works or why it exists, so stop talking about it with absolute confidence just because your pundit pop-sci icons like Kurzgesagt and Dennett arrogantly asserted that they know what consciousness is, you r/atheism midwit, being smarter than your christian parents you're edgy rebelling against doesn't make you an enlightened genius

[Anonymous No.18999319]

So are there any authors who had a particular fascination with death or dying?

[Anonymous No.18999450]

>>18996541
>You are only going back to the state you were in before you were born.
This is not necessarily true and is a cope.
In life the part of us which is aware of life cannot remember what it was like before we were born: but who is to say that the part of us which is aware in life does not continue in awareness through and beyond death, experiencing something new?

[Anonymous No.18999459]

>>18998191
>People are only afraid of death because they never felt satisfied with their lives.
Or have not been tortured to the point of desiring death.

[Anonymous No.18999469]

>>18999319
Philippe Aries' The Hour of Our Death.

[Anonymous No.18999475]

>>18999319
Mishima had a literal sexual fetish for death

[Anonymous No.18999476]

>>18999459
Man i swear you are right. Couple of centuries made me forget about those dreadful days.

[Anonymous No.18999481]

>>18996818
The fact that your brain doesn't allow you to enter a state of panic knowing this is a miracle in and of itself too.

[Anonymous No.18999489]

>>18999319
Cioran
Philip Mainländer
Ernest Becker
Carlo Michelstaedter

[Anonymous No.18999500]

>>18999481
More like a curse. I wish I was panicking and thinking only of how I can prepare, and then preparing. Then inevitably my panic would change into peace, because I completed my preparations.

[Anonymous No.18999588]

>>18999500
>I wish I was panicking and thinking only of how I can prepare, and then preparing.
Be careful about your wishes anon. Trust me

[Anonymous No.18999633]

>>18996585
Books routinely feature people eating yet I don't want to hear your inane opinions on digestion or prepare any of your recipe ideas. Besides, in such a simple statement you're still clearly wrong. We all know what it's like to breathe, we all live, we're all subject to gravity---there's tons of shit that everyone has in common you "profoundly morose" clown.

[Anonymous No.18999651]

>>18999489
I’ve read 3/4 of these and they don’t apply at all.

[Anonymous No.18999670]

>>18999588
Nah, fuck that. I'm apathetic and it's going to bring me straight to hell. Better to panic for a lifetime than suffer for eternity.

[Anonymous No.18999695]

>>18999651
Really? Cioran was fucking obsessed.

Anyway you should checkout
>The Book of Jade by David Park Barnitz
>Autumn Sonata by Trakl
>The Light the Dead See by Frank Stanford

All of these poets committed suicide in their 20s.

[Anonymous No.18999713]

>>18999670
Hmmm, then read The Denial of Death. First chapters are boring but push through it, the brutalism will come after 120th page.

[Anonymous No.19000254]

>>18999713
Why?

[Anonymous No.19000310]

>>18999713
Just read the Wikipedia summary. Does the book assume no real meaning exists, and meaning we think exists is necessarily an illusion? (Of course the necessary doesn't exist within this metaphysical framework so maybe that's poor word choice.) If that's the case, then I'm simply not interested, but correct me if I'm wrong. Mind just giving me a rundown on what you wanted to say?

[Anonymous No.19000319]

>>18997672
Repent and get right with God. Read up on near-death experiences

[Anonymous No.19000324]

https://near-death.com/howard-storm-nde/

[Anonymous No.19000409]

>>18999027
Wonderful post.
I think you’re being a little harsh on science though but I’ll allow it because of the post you replied to being super immature.

I mean it would be nice if we live in a world of intelligent design but another argument is that we’re just here and the universe doesn’t have much say in whether we survive. Our intelligence has accelerated our civilisation to where we have the luxury of building ‘self’ and identity based on how we socialise…. but in terms of consciousness I think it could quite easily be that we’re a whole will. That would explain qualia as subjective only when there is an observer. As fits in with the double slit experiment which shows atoms as only ‘dancing’ to fit in with our perception.

[Anonymous No.19000413]

>>19000324
>not howard-stern-de

disappointed

[Anonymous No.19000446]

>>19000409
Like Schopenhauerian Will? What about naive realism group?

[Anonymous No.19000954]

>>19000446
I’m hoping naive realism is true because 40 years from now I don’t want to have an eternal existence. I just think the infinite galaxy’s emptiness gets in the way of finite representations being given laws outside of our perceived version of objects.

[Anonymous No.19000982]

>>19000954
>I don’t want to have an eternal existence.
There will be no "I". Schopenhauerian death would be same as nothingness before birth. Just our illusionary self will fade away.

[Anonymous No.19000989]

>>18996541
>The only thing all of us have in common is that some day, we will all die.
Proof for this claim: none

[Anonymous No.19001031]

>>19000982
Schopenhauer believed in reincarnation?

[Anonymous No.19001069]

>>19000982
>our illusionary self.
Schopenhauer: We never had one. We never existed..

Isn’t that just as scary? The idea some remnant connected to will must float through the cosmos.

[Anonymous No.19001455]

>>18996541
>That you have experienced consciousness at all is an anomaly.
Everything is conscious. It's not an anomaly, it's just a coincidence to have experienced it in the human form.

[Anonymous No.19002122]

>>18996818
This is true

[Anonymous No.19002302]

>>18997870
>The primates developed large brains because they were obviously beneficial and improved our chances at survival.

Just so.

[Anonymous No.19002528]

>>18997672
kill journos

[nigga No.19002652]

>>18997923
well, i you need proof

*loads gun*

please face the wall

[Anonymous No.19002862]

>>18997870
> obviously beneficial and improved our chances at survival
the adaptations that enabled primates to evolve to the point of relating in the forms of language and culture precede, by a wide epochal margin, the emergence of language and culture themselves. nor is the coincidence of large brain and survivability necessarily guaranteed - neanderthals, it is widely agreed, died out not by violent elimination but by mere cultural - which is to say sexual - assimilation. thus we have two species evolved the point of cultural relations which deviated from a prior ancestor who, at the minimum, must have had the trait that enablers cultural relations in the first place. it's possible that culture itself is the product of a species on the way out - that the neanderthal, recognizing its historical obsolescence, invented an "accelerationist" culture for itself, dissolving its traditional norms and fucking itself into genetic oblivion. maybe our culture is doing the same thing, but without an assimilator species, we're just chronic masturbators.

[Anonymous No.19004994]

>>19001069
But how does the Self or principle of individuation can emerge if everything is already One?

[Anonymous No.19005030]

>>18997668
>Ok bro, but how does something come from nothing?
What if there was always something, and never nothing? What if nothing is a kind of something, or something is a kind of nothing?

[Anonymous No.19005068]

>>18999450
So how do you explain someone who got a head injury that caused them to become mentally retarded. Is their "soul" somewhere else now? What happens when their body dies.

[Anonymous No.19005104]

>>19005068
No amount rational arguments could convince these copelords

[Anonymous No.19005125]

>>19005068
Soul is always in the same "place." It is not a physical substance and is thus not related to time and place.
>head injury that caused them to become mentally retarded
It's impossible to say for certain without experiencing it and then coming back to a normal psychological state (which happens so rarely, if ever). It's not contradictory however to admit that phenomenal consciousness is not a binary state, on or off. It exists on a spectrum, with higher levels being equated to a greater degree of localized soul.

[Anonymous No.19005147]

>>19005125
We can fuck over certain functions of your body/memory by cutting certain parts of the brain. There is literally zero evidence in neuroscience for eternal consciousness or souls.

Keep coping.

[Anonymous No.19005161]

As far as I can remember, I have always anticipated death and lived my life as if I were in death's waiting room and my turn was imminent. I could never care for any long term life plans, goals and aspirations because I have always seen it as dust in the wind. I've realized lately that I live my life as if it were a mere flicker and my death was right around the corner, which is why I'm generally so detached from most things. I just cannot perceive my life as anything else than just passing through this world, waiting for this experience to be over so the next one can begin. It's also why I've never believed in any religion.
Do any authors write about this kind of sentiment?

[Anonymous No.19005176]

>>19005147
>We can fuck over certain functions of your body/memory by cutting certain parts of the brain
Yes, exactly, which reduces, in various manners, the level of consciousness.
>There is literally zero evidence in neuroscience for eternal consciousness or souls.
Science is not capable of proving anything, ergo naturally there is zero proof of it. And the evidence is there, it just totally depends on methods and definitions. Science cannot obtain evidence of consciousness, yet consciousness is entirely presupposed for science itself to have any epistemological validity. Ergo science can never ground itself without metaphysics or epistemology proper. It is a floating castle with no understanding of its origin.

[Anonymous No.19005196]

>>19005161
What is your life like, anon?

I am interested in having a conversation because I am same as you but I have been getting a lot of shit from my family and friends for living such a distant NEET lifestyle. Sometimes I think about running away into a jungle starving myself to death but I am too much of a coward for that and think it would bring more suffering to my family.

I just want to know how do the other people with this mentality cope with existence and drag themselves through the cinema of hours played in front of them. As for authors I don't think you need any, reading has made me more neurotic when I knew the Truth of death and impermanence before starting my reading journey. I think people like you are better off just thinking for themselves. If you really need then read The Complete Works of Zhuangzi which a wholesome read.

[Anonymous No.19005207]

>>19005176
>Science is not capable of proving anything
I don't care, if it works then it's better than making bullshit claims in the air. The sole reason that I am posting on the internet right now makes science more substantial than any metaphysical claims.

[Anonymous No.19005215]

>>18996541
I accept that intellectually.

Those tears in rain tho...

[Anonymous No.19005225]

>>19005196
Our lives seem fairly similar, except I have zero acquaintances outside of my family.
I've tried explaining my point of view on things to them (watering it down as to not appear too depressing) but there's a fundamental incompatibility in worldview there, and I don't think it's possible to have people who don't think like you accept something that is so offensive to their most fundamental assumptions about existence.
>I just want to know how do the other people with this mentality cope with existence
I'm actually relatively happy. The prospect of this strange and momentary existence soon coming to an end to open up into another state entirely is what's kept me going for all my life. It's not like I shun all forms of worldly pleasure either, although my capability to feel physical pleasure seems pretty dull compared to other people's, so most of my time is spent reading, listening to music, watching movies, or going for walks.
>As for authors I don't think you need any
There's this paradoxical impulse to seek out information and knowledge in order to refine my worldview while knowing at the same time that it serves no genuine purpose because no dogmatic ideology can touch upon the truth of death. I agree with you on the neuroticism thing, but not reading because of that would feel like burying your head in the sand, wouldn't you agree?
I've read Zhuangzi, it was nice.

[Anonymous No.19005362]

>>19005225
I have nothing but good wishes for bros like you who can endure such Truth and still out of abyss feeling happy. Yeah I agree with you on the clash of worldviews. I do think that the lifestyle they are living is good for them and this death drenched worldview could easily fuck up an average person so it's better to limit it to the inner world. The thing that is messed up in my case are materialistic concerns because I live in 3rd world country and most of our problems are financial. They force me to get a job, have a family etc. but I don't like clowning and I am sure for how long I can keep my current lifestyle. Contemplation on Death, reading Michelstaedter, Cioran etc. combined with shitty life conditions here have messed up everything, this is why I think about running into a jungle. Do you have such concerns? How do you deal with the world outside?
>so most of my time is spent reading, listening to music, watching movies, or going for walks.
Kino, Schopenhauer also spent his time like this. This mild pleasure in Epicurean way is very sweet stop.
> I agree with you on the neuroticism thing, but not reading because of that would feel like burying your head in the sand, wouldn't you agree?
No, it's not burying your head in the sand. In my experience the one of the greatest challenge which a man face is, unfamiliarity with with one's own inner life. It is a really hard task to contemplate in silence, this is what most people lack. One can learn a lot about the world by just thinking and questioning by themselves, Schopenhauer has also said this. Heraclitus said that he gained wisdom just by questioning himself. You have already read Zhuangzi so you can't really bury your head.

[Anonymous No.19005365]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzSgFWo-Vig

So many paranormal channels capture great evidence.

There is 100% life after death.

[Anonymous No.19005400]

>>19005365
I have never experienced anything paranormal in my life so why should believe some random kooks on YouTube?

[Anonymous No.19005415]

>>18996793
>Is dying the most democratic thing ever?
One more reason to hate democracy. Kek
PS: I'm just kiding, government.

[Anonymous No.19005423]

Read Cioran OP

[Anonymous No.19005426]

>>19005362
Thank you, I wish you well too, I don't think this truth is as devastating as an external cursory glance at it makes it out to be. On the contrary, it's liberating to be able to do away with dogma and ideology to simply acknowledge the transience of whatever this existence is.
>materialistic concerns because I live in 3rd world country
Yes, I understand. Can't you build a simple life for yourself without the need for an ambitious career or founding a family? I suppose if you live in a country with no social security net then you need a family to take care of you when you get old, that's the main obstacle. But as far as daily living goes, I'm assuming a low level routine job could at least allow you to keep your head above the water and live frugally. If all else fails, before you run into a jungle, try moving to a first world country, we're accepting everyone nowadays so you might as well make use of the opportunity before the floodgates close up.
>Do you have such concerns? How do you deal with the world outside?
No, I live in a country with handouts so right now I'm focusing on building a quiet and independent life for myself. I don't really participate in the outside world except for the basics (groceries and so on), and I don't feel the need to.
> It is a really hard task to contemplate in silence
In that sense, I see what you mean. It's hard to be entirely self-reliant for matters of philosophy and spirituality, to not feel the urge to seek confirmation from external sources.

[Anonymous No.19005427]

>>18997736
Why not?

[Anonymous No.19005428]

>>18999481
>The fact that your brain doesn't allow you to enter a state of panic knowing this is a miracle in and of itself too.
I actually remember getting into a kinda state of panic when the thought really hit me for real when I first started my teens.

[Anonymous No.19005451]

>>19005400
Because muh feels are important

[Anonymous No.19005464]

>>19005400
TFIL started doing the investigations as a joke and quickly were stunned with what they found

You can go paranormal investigate yourself. I have. It's real. Ghosts are real.

[Anonymous No.19005498]

There have been nights smoking weed alone that I get this jag of absolute metaphysical terror about death, the sheer nightmarish novelty of knowing I will close my eyes and never wake up again, the horror that the death state could possibly lock me in my decomposing body for a subjective eternity (I really shouldn't fucking read the more exotic theories on what happens after you die), or that on the other side is some demonic terror dimension that awaits all life and existence is just a marinade... but other times the fear chemicals aren't there and I see death as the ultimate escape, Willy Wonka's golden ticket out of this oubliette of carbon.

I have never gotten closer to touching the monad of my soul than sitting there contemplating "the forsaken solitude of death" as Shestov calls it. I urge every anon for whom death stops being a redditoid abstraction to sit in that feeling and see what swims up to meet you out of the depths of your being.

[Anonymous No.19005503]

>>19005498
Have you seen some shit bro?

[Anonymous No.19005515]

>>19005503
I've seen some shit.

[Anonymous No.19005526]

>>19005498
>the more exotic theories on what happens after you die
Wouldn't that presuppose that there is nothing more than evil and no possibilities outside of it? I find myself automatically rejecting those hypotheses, because the existence of a possibility for "something else" is simply obvious to anyone who isn't a dark empty shell devoid of light. Theories about death being a gateway to eternal suffering don't sway me because they don't factor in the existence of that light, which by itself invalidates the possibility of infinite darkness.

[Anonymous No.19005529]

>>19005426
You are right about external validation. One needs mountainous strength to be on it's own. If you haven't read poetry of Pessoa and Borges then please do, they will resonate with your personality.

I think I have a deeper problem, some people can endure void some get destroyed by it, I am latter. Ever since I was a kid this feeling of emptiness has always pained me and I have tried to be content with it but I can't.

>so right now I'm focusing on building a quiet and independent life for myself. I don't really participate in the outside world except for the basics (groceries and so on), and I don't feel the need to.
Good luck anon.

[Anonymous No.19005534]

>>19005526
Well that's what I mean. If nothing I can feel or think has any bearing on what comes after, then that counts just as much for what I get to thinking and feeling hopped up on those fear chemicals - that I'm basically subjectivizing my body's understandable animal terror of death.

[Anonymous No.19005547]

>>19005529
I was actually thinking I should read Borges recently, thanks for reminding me.
>some people can endure void some get destroyed by it
I think the key is to realize that the void is not obliteration, but liberation. It's the opposite of what you think, once you get that, the fear will naturally dissolve. You should take a look at this thread >>18974283.
Good luck to you.

[Anonymous No.19005569]

>>19005515
Like what? What is your method of contemplation?

[Anonymous No.19005571]

>>19005498
>Willy Wonka's golden ticket out of this oubliette of carbon.
nice

[Anonymous No.19005574]

>>18996541
I can't wait. Life has been largely tragic and disappointing for me. I long for my parents to die so I can peacefully kill myself and go home without any feelings of guilt.

[Anonymous No.19005575]

>>19005534
>that counts just as much for what I get to thinking and feeling hopped up on those fear chemicals
Yeah, though under certain circumstances you're prevented from taking the required step back in perspective and these ideas start to acquire a genuine corporeality fueled by paranoia. That's why I don't smoke weed.

[Anonymous No.19005589]

>>19005569
The feeling comes on by itself, usually late at night somewhere dark and outside. It's a very passive. The feeling itself is an extreme "metaphysical" claustrophobia, indescribable, it almost feels like not my life, but the universe itself, is the sickest joke imaginable and unimaginable for not only me but everything and anything that has come before. Everything, from food to sex to love to art, feels like an utter clown show.

I force myself to sit in that feeling and let it burn away that halo of life considerations which determines 99.9% of my waking life until I'm a nub. What's left over is almost... a kind of wordless companionship with something infinitely deep inside me. I don't know.

>>19005575
I am forever grateful to drugs for letting my experience strata of feeling normie life will never, ever let you experience, however attenuated those feelings are by the drug itself.

[Anonymous No.19005596]

>>19005589
>strata of feeling normie life will never, ever let you experience
What else have you experimented with? I fear I might be too neurotic for psychedelics, considering weed has me stuck in pointless loops of terror. I have access to psilocybin, but I don't know if it's a good idea.

[Anonymous No.19005600]

>>19005596
Just weed. I've got enough hair on my chest to want to try shrooms, just can't get any.

Keep in mind I'm talking as a weed vet, not som 1st time smoker freaking out 'cause he watched biblically accurate angels on YouTube.

[Anonymous No.19005602]

>>19005589
>Everything, from food to sex to love to art, feels like an utter clown show.
it is

[Anonymous No.19005611]

>>19005589
What if I have felt all this without drugs?
Are you doing okay in life?

[Anonymous No.19005612]

>>19005602
Absolutely, the come down has me feeling like a cat watching a mouse hole: I want to catch what it is that sterilizes this feeling and makes the world ho-hum and quotidian again in the act, because that's what gives death its terror and honestly it's what prevents me from living life to the fullest.

[Anonymous No.19005615]

>>19005611
There's no reason you shouldn't, weed just is its own angle of approach on a stratum we're all feeling itt.

>Are you doing okay in life?
Yes, I truly do feel like I've been let in on a secret and I alternate between peace and terror.

[Anonymous No.19005629]

>>19005615
Have you seen some hallucinations too?

[Anonymous No.19005631]

>>18996541
Death is the ultimate chad.

[Anonymous No.19005632]

>>19005589
>the universe itself, is the sickest joke imaginable and unimaginable for not only me but everything and anything that has come before
Not the guy you responded to, but I sometimes experience something similar, except it isn't steeped in despair. Take the "sick joke" feeling and replace it with a more impartial, cold and alien impression of removal, as if the entirety of the world condenses into a transparent screen and I can see through its lack of substance; everything that defines it and that is defined by it becomes absolutely meaningless, not as in existential meaninglessness but in the more basic sense that it is simply drained of signification, and I'm stuck there observing this utterly bizarre and colorless stage. I try to contemplate it, but unlike your own experience, it's over in an instant.
>>19005600
You can easily order a kit for shrooms on dutch websites if you live in Europe and from what I've seen customs don't give a fuck.
And yeah admittedly I don't have a lot of experience with weed, I'm a lightweight.

[Anonymous No.19005639]

>>19005631
this is true. there is no one death will not mog eventually, doesn't matter how smart or rich you are or how big your cock is. death will eventually mog you.

[Anonymous No.19005651]

>>19005632
>utterly bizarre and colorless stage
You've touched the Christ condition, honestly, or in other words: you've neutralized Zizek's lamella, the thing that "eroticizes" life and gives it its punch and flavor.

>You can easily order a kit for shrooms
I do live in Europe. You sure? Maybe I'll give it a go.

[Anonymous No.19005671]

>>19005651
>you've neutralized Zizek's lamella, the thing that "eroticizes" life and gives it its punch and flavor.
Ah fuck that's exactly it. A momentary zooming out from the frame of reference provided by the world, and the realization of its puzzling lack of meaning, substance, of its "lack" in general really. Colorlessness and transparency somehow being the most adequate qualifiers of the experience. What is implied by "Christ condition", however? As far as objectivized notions of spiritual advancement (which I'm inclined to distrust anyway) are concerned, I am far from special.
>You sure?
Yes, I know someone who ordered a kit for 50€ and received it with no issues, you'll get a bunch of results by simply looking up "psilocybin kit". Regarding customs, it easily passes through in western Europe, but if you're somewhere else things might go differently, I can't say.

[Anonymous No.19005688]

>>19005632
You have experienced true nihilism.

[Anonymous No.19005694]

>>19005671
Well it's why the Manichaeans believed the human body was the most advanced demonic vessel - its compulsive eroticization (or "filling out", "overlaying", "virtualization"...) of the world is what keeps you fastened to it and fastened to your drives.

>What is implied by "Christ condition"?
Michelstaedter writes that he who is persuaded exists permanently in the state you have described, in a desert, without past or future, without family, with "stones for his bread" - St. John describes two dark nights of the soul. The first is your basic withdrawal from the sinful life, the second is a much, much more profound deadening to this erotic power in you, and that's the real gateway to truth.

I firmly believe "every Subject is Christ", you know in a non-schizo way. Just like you shouldn't feel forbidden from believing death is x or y, you should also not feel forbidden from considering "yourself" as having accessed that dimension.

[Anonymous No.19005698]

>>19005688
These flashes of detachment consistently give me the underlying impression that the world is not all there is; I'm not contained in this experience of peering through the world's transparency, although my "person" in conventional terms is, I'm left with the distinct feeling that the realization of this meaningless and arbitrary set for existence can and will give way to something else, unqualifiable insofar as we're still using worldly symbols and terminology to apprehend it. For that reason I wouldn't call it nihilism.

[Anonymous No.19005703]

>>19005698
It's a dilation (lol): if you're not limited by the axiom of the world, what are you limited by? Certainly something more expansive than the world itself.

[Anonymous No.19005717]

>>19005703
>It's a dilation (lol): if you're not limited by the axiom of the world, what are you limited by? Certainly something more expansive than the world itself.
Hmmm, Ligotti wrote about the experience of a women like in his book The Conspiracy Against the Human Race, checkout this shit:

>At the height of her ego-death, Segal was ecstatic twenty-four hours a day. She also began to speak of what she called the “vastness,” a term that sounds as if it belongs in one of Lovecraft’s tales of cosmic horror. To Segal, the vastness was a unitary phenomenon that comprised all existence. As she wrote, “The purpose of human life has been revealed. The vastness created these human circuitries in order to have an experience of itself out of itself that it couldn’t have without them.” Living in the vastness as she did, nothing was useless to Segal because it served the purposes of the vastness. For her, it also felt good once she had gotten over her initial fear of being a tool of the vastness rather than a person. However, toward the end of her life, as American psychotherapist and Buddhist Stephan Bodian recounts in his afterword to Collision with the Infinite, Segal began to have more intense experiences in which “the vastness became even vaster for itself.” This new phase of the vastness both distressed her emotionally and sapped her physical energy until she died from her unsuspected brain tumor not long afterward.

Does "Vastness" sound familiar to you?

[Anonymous No.19005719]

>>19005694
>its compulsive eroticization (or "filling out", "overlaying", "virtualization"...) of the world
Interestingly that means that my escapist tendencies and propensity for using the world as fuel for imagination rather than living within it, are just as, if not more, conducive to worldly attachment as genuine action in the world. Projection of the world into a subjective landscape is more addictive than the world itself.
>exists permanently in the state you have described
I can't begin to envision how a permanent shift of perspective into that state would take place.
Glimpses of this gateway to truth can be caught occasionally, but there's nothing to hold on to, and it's over in an instant.
Do you think this experience is accurately described by some eastern equivalents, or are we getting into something that's phenomenologically different there?
>"every Subject is Christ", you know in a non-schizo way
It naturally ties back to the salvator salvandus. I understand.

[Anonymous No.19005728]

>>19005703
>if you're not limited by the axiom of the world, what are you limited by?
Precisely. There is an impression of unbinding which implies the opening up of another, incomprehensibly larger frame of reference.
>>19005717
Vastness is an adequate descriptor but this "have an experience of itself through human life" statement has specific monistic undertones that feel completely irrelevant to the experience and that I personally disagree with.

[Anonymous No.19005736]

>>19005728
What about Schopenhauer's Will-to-Live? I think you have broken off the chains of phenomenonal representation

[Anonymous No.19005748]

''No one can see death,
no one can see the face of death,
no one can hear the voice of death,
yet there is savage death that snaps off mankind.
For how long do we build a household?
For how long do we seal a document!
For how long do brothers share the inheritance?
For how long is there to be jealousy in the land(!)!
For how long has the river risen and brought the overflowing
waters,
so that dragonflies drift down the river!'
The face that could gaze upon the face of the Sun
has never existed ever.
How alike are the sleeping(!) and the dead.
The image of Death cannot be depicted.
(Yes, you are a) human being, a man (?)!
After Enlil had pronounced the blessing,'"
the Anunnaki, the Great Gods, assembled.
Mammetum, she who forms destiny, determined destiny with them.
They established Death and Life,
but they did not make known 'the days of death.''

[Anonymous No.19005760]

>>19005736
I don't see much of a parallel, no. As another anon put it, it goes beyond the limitation imposed by the axiom of the world, so I think you're completely right in saying that phenomenological representation becomes insufficient at that point.

[Anonymous No.19005771]

>>19005760
>I don't see much of a parallel, no. As another anon put it, it goes beyond the limitation imposed by the axiom of the world
It is, look into Schopenhauer's Will-to-Live

[Anonymous No.19005776]

>>18999633
>Books routinely feature people eating yet I don't want to hear your inane opinions on digestion or prepare any of your recipe ideas.
based recipe hater

[Anonymous No.19005780]

>>18996541
Literally so fucking what? Why do people act like death negates life? Dying doesn’t erase who I am and what I am experiencing from having ever existed

[Anonymous No.19005953]

>>18996541
I really enjoyed reading and introduction to stoicism when I was 19, it's reminded me that one day I will die. At the time I was happy to finally be consciously aware of this. It was a question that used to bug me a lot when I was a kid so it was nice to have a bit of clarity there.
However, recently (I'm now 21) I've begun to think a lot about the death of people I love. I try apply the same mindset I have to my own death but I just cannot shake the fact that my family will die. This obsession has slowly been creeping up on me since I had this revelation, and recently, I've been paranoid over my family members (esp my mother) being violently killed. I believe this is due to the over-thinking the fact they will die. Problem is, these thoughts are now coming to me every second day.
Before reading Meditations I kind of saw a beauty to the world (which still stands, in it's own unique way). But due the thoughts of death everyday, I think it's had such a negative effect on me that I cannot get myself out of that hole.
It's not that I'm suicidal, I'm just so afraid of facing death. So afraid, that now I get upset looking at my pet fish, knowing that one day they will eventually die. This realisation only came to me 3 weeks ago when I was woken up to someone laying on the ground with a puddle of blood next to their head. I was not in the mindset to deal with someone dying that I began to clean the house up. I didn't even help I was so shocked at the sight. I know this is a normal physiological reaction to seeing someone 'dead.' Fortunately the person did not die but it's made me even more afraid of seeing someone die. I'm 21 and still, no one close to me has died yet.
I recently finished the book "man and his symbols" and I'm now having dreams about me in therapy. I've had two dreams in the past two weeks of me talking to a psychologist. I'm not sure if this is my subconsious telling me to go see a psychologist.
I'm not sure, I'm so lost right now. The fact I know LESS the more I read, combined with the stress of university, and the lockdowns in Australia has really sent my mind into a very odd way of thinking. And if you were wondering, yes I am a pussy. I'm a homosexual with half a female brain and half a male brain, I don't know how I'm meant to function.
That's the end of my blog.

[Anonymous No.19006014]

>>19005717
Vastness, but like the other guy said, without any of the monistic - Hegelian associations: I'm a node without being an appendage, or a node in a web.

>>19005719
I wouldn't be so suspicious of your imaginal faculty. You use the tool to eliminate its own necessity, or compulsion.

>Do you think this experience is accurately described by some eastern equivalents, or are we getting into something that's phenomenologically different there?

Yes, read UG. What we're talking about is an extinction of overlays or semiotic codes - recall that UG had forgotten what a car was after his "calamity." See also: Gurdjieff and objective perception, and Zen. Of course, this kind of perception is bad for business, so you understand why our masters would deny even its possibility.

But I've felt it. I've never felt a greater, more ek-static peace than when I looked up at the sky one day without any ego interceding - I pretended I had already died and this was what the sky would look like the first day after I'd vacated the earth. It was indescribable. Angels didn't come down to meet me but they might as well have.

[Anonymous No.19006026]

>>18999633
>Books routinely feature people eating yet I don't want to hear your inane opinions on digestion or prepare any of your recipe ideas.
based and checked

[Anonymous No.19006034]

>>18996541
Can we get some dead people here to verify OPs claims?

[Anonymous No.19006048]

>>19005629
No, nothing so extravagant, but I do feel a peace and even equanimity at the other end that feels qualitatively different than anything else. At the end of the day, it's just a sheltered person getting a glimpse of spaces outside his bubble that shake him to the core.

[Anonymous No.19006121]

>>19006014
>You use the tool to eliminate its own necessity,
Yes, but what I mean is that imagination can only ever produce objects that are informed by what it uses as fuel, i.e. the world, so by escaping the world through imagination, you loop back to indulgence in what is worldly. So I'm not sure if imagination weakens the world's hold on the individual by substituting itself to the world, or if it strengthens it by creating subjective impressions that are inextricably tied to the world.
>an extinction of overlays or semiotic codes
I feel like it goes deeper than mere semiotics since you're observing from "outside" rather than losing all sense of meaning while remaining "within" the world, but yeah that is the gist of it. Didn't UG claim he had become a kind of p-zombie after his experience?
>without any ego interceding
Do you think that is ego death? I'm usually suspicious of anything to do with the destruction of the ego since it's mostly used to peddle dissolution into an objective oneness and the abnegation of individual subjectivity.

[Anonymous No.19006135]

>>18998089
>sense of self is continous
Talk for yourself

[Anonymous No.19006161]

>>19006121
I think the imaginal has its feet in "both" dimensions, or we're kind of back to old Kantian dilemma of how we can speak of the unknowable: what if this dilation, too, is thoroughly of the world? How can we be sure even this feeling doesn't get thrown out with the bathwater at death? If the world's axiom is porous enough to allow for this "transcendental matrix" which beholds it, then I have to believe imagination has a real utility.

>p-zombie
Yeah insofar as you kind of extinguish your rote worldly subjectivity, and even insofar as enlightenment has been described as a kind of lucid automatism: I do not kill you with the sword, it is the sword which acts through me, etc.

I hesitate to use the term ego death because it stinks of filthy Am*rican monism and self abnegation like you said. I did not experience a sinking or a dissolution in oneness, I remember distinctly still being a perceiver, an eyeball, but in which the conditions of embodiment no longer applied. I was the seeing-eye plane that my interiority has always been, fully.

[Anonymous No.19006285]

>>19006161
>what if this dilation, too, is thoroughly of the world?
Good point. I had assumed there was a link between this erasure of meaning and the non-death intuition, but they aren't necessarily related, and the experience of semiotic negation we're talking about, even though it annuls being (by displaying the world's apparent "transparency"), doesn't actually go beyond its bounds. However I'm still reasoning in a hierarchical manner here in trying to establish a relationship between the two.
>I have to believe imagination has a real utility.
The issue is how to apply it correctly.
>you kind of extinguish your rote worldly subjectivity
But even then, a conscious agent should remain (what you talk about when you mention the "seeing-eye plane" that has always been), which is not the case in the phenomenon UG described, if I'm not mistaken. I might be wrong since I've only listened to talks a while ago and didn't actually read the books.
>a perceiver, an eyeball, but in which the conditions of embodiment no longer applied.
An outside observer removed from the world, not fused with it? In that case our experiences were most likely extremely similar.

[Anonymous No.19006291]

>You are only going back to the state you were in before you were born
Ayo dis nigga be saying life ain’t mean shit

[Anonymous No.19006314]

>>18999319
Cormac McCarthy

[Anonymous No.19006371]

>>19006285
I won't pretend to know these states in detail, we're just debating the finer points of the brochure, or have only traveled there briefly.

>An outside observer removed from the world, not fused with it?

In the world, but not of it. All I can tell you is when my animal stake in life evaporates, when the world is no longer an object my own self-project, I find myself enveloped an ocean of tender sorrow and love for (more or less) all things, but one braced against the world, not for it.

[Anonymous No.19006487]

>>19006161
>did not experience a sinking or a dissolution in oneness, I remember distinctly still being a perceiver, an eyeball
HOLY FUCKING SHIT FAGGOT YOU SAW THE FUCKING EYE, ONE EYE WHICH SEE THE WORLD AS SCHOPENHAUER SAID IT

>For this reason, Schopenhauer describes core-subjectivity as ‘that one eye of the world which looks out from all knowing creatures’ (emphasis added), the ‘eternal world-eye’. If you and I were to become completely amnesic while lying in an ideal sensory deprivation chamber, for at least a moment all that would be left in both our conscious inner lives would be this core-subjectivity, this undifferentiated but felt I-ness, identical in both you and me.

https://iai.tv/articles/schopenhauers-sense-of-self-auid-1329

You SHOULD send an email to Bernardo Kastrup if you want to discuss your experiences.

[Anonymous No.19006492]

>>19006371
That makes me think, right now we're discussing our respective experiences, which may share some similarities; I was reading the chapter on gnosticism in After God and there was a passage on the multiplicity of pneumata and the subsequent subjectivity of the path:

>Because every individual narrative is projected from one's own position on a path, there cannot be a universally acceptable or valid image of "the" path itself. "My path" is, fundamentally and uniquely, a movement on the beam of my coming into the world. (p.66)

I understand this as a reformulation of gnostic anti-dogmatism and the incommunicability of personal experience, as well as the statement that there can be no objectivization of experience even as an approximation. In which case, is drawing similarities utterly pointless?

[Anonymous No.19006508]

>>18996541
>The only thing all of us have in common is that some day, we will all die.
Not true. We also have in common that some past day, we were all born.

[Anonymous No.19006588]

>>19006487
Well even Emerson talks about it, and I've always been in profound agreement with Schope: what is light has only ever been relief from the will, and in that moment, I felt relief from the will, and every spiritual experience or artistic experience in my life that has stayed with me has been relief from the will. It's a diamond core of serenity, and the world is a husk or accretion around it.

>>19006492
So we meet again. So what do you think of Sloterdijk so far?

Instead of giving you my gloss on it, lemme paste a relevant passage from Future Christ:

>Salvation is an operation of birth and emergence rather than of restoration or re-creation. That which clones the in-Man forms, if we want it to, a pleroma of non-Christians and, as we said elsewhere, a transcendental city of Strangers, but this pleroma does not double the World, it brings it the identity that it does not have.

That's the key point, and what that anon was talking about just now: this abstract "I" is incommunicable, my Pleroma is my own, but because it is abstract - generic - it comprises a "City", a non-local community of spirit.

So there is a similarity, but one that does not cut across a common medium, more like a commonality between MEDIA proper (a common unilateralization, a community of last-identities).

Imagine a city where each inhabitant is a Stranger invisible to every other. That's the (non-)Pleroma of Laruelle, and that which Sloterdijk is gesturing towards (I don't have my copy of Filoramo with me right now, or else I'd show you the part where he clarifies what he means by the Pleroma being my true condition rather than an objective space).

[Anonymous No.19006604]

>>19005498
> Dread strikes us dumb. Because be-ing as a whole slips away and straightaway no-thing rushes in, every saying "Is" [jedes "Ist"-Sagen] about it is silent in the face of it. That in the uncanniness of dread we even often attempt to break the empty stillness with random chatter is only proof of [the] present[Gegenwart] [of] no-thing. That dread discloses no-thing is then immediately confirmed when dread has eased off. In light of what we had just seen while it was still fresh in our memory, we are forced to say that that about and of which we were in dread was "really [eigentlich]" nothing at all [nichts]. Indeed, no-thing itself, as such, was there.
> In the fundamental mood of dread we have reached the event of existence in which no-thing is made manifest and in which it must be questioned.

>In dread, be-ing as a whole becomes untenable. In what sense does this happen? After all, be-ing is not annihilated [vernichtet] so that no-thing is left over. How could it be otherwise, when dread finds itselfcompletely powerless in the face of be-ing as a whole! Moreover, no-thing manifests itself specifically with and in be-ing as something that is slipping away as a whole [im Ganzen].No annihilation [Vernichtung] of all of [ganzen] be-ing comes about in dread, though just as little do we carry out a negation of be-ing as a whole [im Ganzen] in order to reach no-thing in the first place. Apart from the fact that the express making of such a negative statement is foreign to dread, we have always come too late with the very negation that is supposed to give us no-thing. No-thing comes to pass long before that. As we have said, it happens "at one with" be-ing as a whole that is slipping away.

>In the clear night of dread's no-thing, the original openness of be-ing as such arises [ersteht] for the first time in such a way that it is [a kind of] be-ing and not no-thing. In adding "and not no-thing" we have not, however, added a clarification, but rather the predecessive potential [vorgängige Ermöglichung]* of the openness of be-ing in general. The essence of the originally nihilating no-thing is found in this: it brings about being there first of all, before [vor]* any kind of be-ing.

https://wagner.edu/psychology/files/2013/01/Heidegger-What-Is-Metaphysics-Translation-GROTH.pdf

[Anonymous No.19006635]

>>19006588
What does "the will" mean

[Anonymous No.19006704]

>>19006604
Now this is death as dread and swallowing night and as far I'm able to know it at my age in relative good health, I've felt it, and yeah it'll blow out your fucking asshole bud. But I want to direct your attention to this, death as the perpendicular express.

This is one of the cornerstones of the "non-death" intuition me and the other guy have been elaborating.

We have here Shestov's Eye of the Spirit in full effect, what Socrates himself possessed: what transmutes the hemlock from a grave to an escalator:

>The radical internalization of the gnostic drama of the self has as its ultimate presupposition the equation of the self with time and negativity, and the equation of redemption with death. The self is redeemed by death not in the moment it dies but in knowing itself from the start as a being toward death.

>Because death claims the self in its last isolation, it reveals to the self that, WHEN ITS OWN BEING IS AT STAKE, THE WORLD FAILS IT; that in its ultimate striving it is thrown back on itself, on nothing. Standing always and knowingly in the imminence of its own death, the self knows that its true Being is saved (entrissen) from the "public." By taking its imminent death upon itself, the self redeems itself from the "public." The self is its own redeemer.

From here: https://www.jstor.org/stable/1200938

Highly recommended

[Anonymous No.19006713]

>>19006635
My will-to-life, my will-to-enjoy, my will to be validated, confirmed, adumbrated, enplaced by life, other people, other minds. My lust for my own being and the field of play that is the world. Extinguish that and there is no dissatisfaction because the condition of all possible suffering and discontent has been finally suspended. I've only ever been hurt by and IN the world.

[Anonymous No.19006829]

>>19006588
>So what do you think of Sloterdijk so far?
To be completely frank I'm finding him much more arduous than other sources on gnosticism I've read so far, and I'm not exactly sure what he's getting at. The way he formulates some of the ideas I've already seen/talked about elsewhere is really good (the world as a "pornographic purgatory from which pneumata are filtered out" stuck with me) but some things just elude me, chalk it up to my philosophical immaturity. Do you recommend reading all of After God, or simply going back to the gnosticism chapter and figuring it out?

I think the passages on the historicity of self-knowledge are very interesting but I'm not sure if I'm interpreting them correctly. For example, when he says the process of de-worlding makes individuals the only subjects of authentic history, and advocates against involvement in what he calls the affairs of external history, is it another callback to the realignment of the nexus of experience from god/the absolute/some other abstraction to the individual himself? Does Sloterdijk mean that the only true history is the process the individual goes through to find his path back from the world to his pleroma, and that the history of the world is peripheral if not irrelevant? That there is no Logos pervading world history, but only the Logoi of the individuals that underpin their own story of salvation?
I don't quite understand what he means by "when the soul's being in God is grasped, the world's being in the soul also becomes possible", or that being in the world requires being in oneself.
All in all I think I'm gonna need a reread.

>Imagine a city where each inhabitant is a Stranger invisible to every other.
The Pleroma is a generic object in the same sense that the One is? So if our respective Pleromas neither constitute an intersection, nor can they be said to be identical, is it more like a superimposition of individual identities onto a blank generic object? Am I way off course here?

[Anonymous No.19006863]

>>19006713
What's your opinion on buddhism?

[Anonymous No.19006954]

>>18996818

[Anonymous No.19007098]

>>19006829
You seem pretty on the money with everything so I didn't think it'd give you trouble. Gnosis is a constant theme for him that he dips in and out of, so I think it'd be too much for you to hunt down every reference and clarification (I think he has a whole section on Adorno's latent Gnosticism in his collection of essays on Heidegger), so that should be enough for now.

>is it another callback to the realignment of the nexus of experience from god/the absolute/some other abstraction to the individual himself?

Yes to this and to your question after: the "pluralization" of salvation histories braced against the tyranny of historical time.

Peripheral, irrelevant, but also parasitic. I love studying Chinese history but this endless elaboration and "filling out" with knowledge of the space I inhabit feels a little puerile and recreational after awhile. It's like a man devoting his life to learning everything about the history of his prison.

>That there is no Logos pervading world history

Oh, there is, but it's the Enemy. It is a zombie Logos animated by its slaves, world history is basically an obscene Weekend at Bernie's.

>I don't quite understand...

Remember when I said the trick consists in seeing the World as something for-you as much as you are something for-it? Yeah.

>The Pleroma is a generic object...

I think you're implying a container or a field where this superposition happens, the Pleroma is the superposition itself. What's generic is not an object, but myself in my last-identity which is what activates the superposition.

It'd be more accurate to say it is the WORLD which is the superIMPOSITION.

In any case, only Laruelle is more arduous that Sloterdijk, so it's smooth sailing from here.

[Anonymous No.19007120]

>>19006863
I believe Tiantai Buddhism is one of the most sophisticated traditions on the planet.

[Anonymous No.19007299]

>>18996541
start with the 'jeets

[Anonymous No.19007341]

>>19005428
Same. From elementary school until I got into uni I panicked at the thought of dying and at the thought of my parents dying and leaving me alone.

[Anonymous No.19007371]

>>19007098
Maybe it's because I'm unfamiliar with Heidegger which he references often. But yeah After God feels more opaque than the other books I've read.
>Peripheral, irrelevant, but also parasitic.
Pondering world history ends up intruding on your own personal history of salvation?
>I love studying Chinese history
Speaking of, you say you're interested in Tiantai, aren't you bothered by the uncompromising nondualism of the overwhelming majority of these eastern traditions?
>the trick consists in seeing the World as something for-you as much as you are something for-it?
Oh, yes. I just found it odd that Sloterdijk predicates one on the other, i.e. that there is no realization of the world as a tool for salvation without prior realization of the individual as a tool for the world. I assume that this is because one needs to realize his position within the prison before formulating an escape plan.
>the Pleroma is the superposition itself.
The Pleroma is simply the action of superposing individual subjectivity, but with no field to contain it?
> it is the WORLD which is the superIMPOSITION.
I didn't even purposefully use the term superimposition as a way to imply coercion or invasion, but yeah.

[Anonymous No.19007380]

Since this looks like the schizo thread, I have a question for whoever. I've been heavily interested in eastern religion stuff and psychedelics for a few years now. Recently I've come to this strange idea about "trusting the universe" or something like that. I don't push things away anymore and if something bad happens, I think that it was supposed to happen this way. It goes well beyond that, but it's hard to put into words. I also seem to have given up a lot of my ideas. I have spent years thinking about all kinds of solutions to metaphysical questions, but now I don't seem to care about those answers anymore. I have started to sort of "give up" everything and just exist, letting the world happen the way it wants to. It's a very peaceful state, most of the time. However, suffering still exists, no matter what is done or not done, there still seems to be this underlying sense that something is wrong, that there's still something more to do, something more I need. I allow those sensations to rise and fall without giving them much consideration, but they still exist.
Do any of you have experience with what I'm talking about or know where I go from here? Sorry if this was a bit rambly, it's hard to put into words.

[Anonymous No.19007432]

>>19007371
>pondering world history...
It's most like I start spontaneously relating myself more and more to its reference frame, which can be engulfing.

>nondualism

Tiantai is too sophisticated for that, the understanding of the Buddhist teachings is tiered, remember. Dualism and non-dualism possess a mutual priority, each is equally "findable", it is not that everything is swallowed up by a non-dualist ungrund.

>That there is no realization of the world as a tool...

There can't, my pneuma needs to be consolidated enough to consolidate/totalize the world as something to point at and eventually discard. Anyways, you said it.

>no field to contain it?

Or one is one's own field. This is a formula Sloterdijk uses in After God (but not in that chapter): an entity productive of space, not space productive of an entity. The former is what a God (or the positive individual) is, the latter is what cucks like me and you are (negative individuals, nodes in a web as opposed to "webbed nodes": I use that with some qualification, it isn't a 1:1 switch).

>I didn't even purposefully...
I know that's the beauty of these exchanges, they evolve the topic as they elaborate on it.

[Anonymous No.19007446]

>>19007380
I don't believe we have the luxury to "go with the flow". We were born into a time with an Enemy that we would do good to fight, even if it is in ourselves.

Never confuse equanimity with compliance/complacency. Nothing forbids a soldier from also "taking everything in stride", just on a battlefield. I also think you have a high T soul that's kind of trying to vomit up the sedating, pacifying "just go with the flooow man" cuck programming that the West has been swimming in since the 60s.

[Anonymous No.19007483]

>>18996541
In the most pathetic of my nights, moments when I caved over the abyss and sweated, the only think that kept me sane was praying for everyone. I prayed for the insects, bacteria, for rocks, and for every alien specie in every galaxy that I'd never meet. In my depths of pathetic help, the eye that sits atop the pyramid looked at me. This is the divine logos. There is, across space and time, a collection of beings who have prayed to and for one another across the abyss and they are their own answer. I tell you this, there may be death, but there is hope within the nothingness. Think, pray, and reflect on every being that ever was, is, or will be, and forgive them. This is the meaning of Christ and the final resort of the mortal.

[Anonymous No.19007489]

>>19007380
see my reply >>19007483

[Anonymous No.19007490]

>>19007483
Based. I know this feeling.

[Anonymous No.19007514]

>>19007446
It's not even "go with the flow". If I have the will to do something, I'll do it. I'm not just waiting around for the universe to drop whatever I need in my hand. It's more like a meditative state. Good and bad sensations will come and go, but I don't seem as "attached" to them anymore. This would seem to be on the right track for enlightenment, but I don't know where to go from here. Despite having minimal attachment to these desires, there is still some attachment left over. It seems to happen on its own, like how the heart beats or the breath breathes. The "voluntary agent" (if it even exists), takes no action to beat the heart, or breathe the breath (most of the time), and it doesn't attach itself to things. The "voluntary agent" no longer seems to be attempting to attach itself to whatever random desire appears. However, the ideas that say, "I need to do something more, I need to attain something more", still appear and are understood as a negative experience. This very conservation is being driven by those desires. It is unknown how to no longer be attached to those. The attachment is not an action believed to have been taken by the "voluntary agent". I'm not sure where to go from here.

[Anonymous No.19007520]

>>19007432
Get lost narcissist faker. If you experienced anything of value you’d be out in the streets and free from possessions.

[Anonymous No.19007543]

>>19007483
I've had a somewhat similar experience. Once when I was in this meditative state that I previously described, anxiety started to appear very strongly. However, I prayed and nothing happened at first. So I abandoned all hope and totally gave up trying to understand what was happening or trying to end the anxiety. Then all of the sudden, the way I existed changed. I felt like I had slightly moved out of my body. All the negative desires that were there before persisted, but they no longer affected me. They felt too far away and too unreal. I felt like I was the only thing in existence.

[Anonymous No.19007552]

>As long as you live on this side of the terrible, you will find words to express it; once you know it from inside, you will no longer find a single one.

Cioran, The Trouble with Being Born

I wish I could share what it feels like on the other side, Cioran knew the ineffability. Only reactions to that feeling are crying, screaming or laughing.

[Anonymous No.19007575]

>>19007514
Right, I wasn't saying throw out the baby with a bathwater. Sounds like you're a stream enterer, but the attachment to this world is like a termite infestation: so long as one egg survives, it will breed again. It sounds like you're making genuine progress. I'm not a sage or a guru. I'm just speaking from experience. If you need something to do, apply those energies to a praxis. It'll make you feel like you've done something without pissing those energies out into the world.

[Anonymous No.19007604]

>>19007520
I've struggled hard to curb my appetites and live a relatively simple life with only my body and intellect as sources I've recognition. I'm not splayed out on the web of power. I harm and exploit no beings except the plants on which my life depends.

[Anonymous No.19007667]

>gf’s roommates mom dies of COVID
>told myself I’d never have go to an open casket funeral
>going to the funeral on Friday
>no clue how to act, what to say or wear
>gonna be forced to look at a puppet-like corpse and the whole family weeping over the casket

How do I prepare myself bros? I’m From a very secular Michigan Democrat family. I’ve only been to a few memorial services as a kid, so a southern open casket funeral will be insane

[Anonymous No.19007702]

>>19007667
It's a very solemn atmosphere, you'll know how to act when you get there.

[Anonymous No.19008004]

>>19007432
>I start spontaneously relating myself more and more to its reference frame
What do you do to snap out of it? Counterbalance it with a kind of solipsistic dismissal of events that are outside the boundaries of your own experience?
>the understanding of the Buddhist teachings is tiered
Right. Is Tiantai the only school to do that, though? It's been a while since I've looked into eastern philosophy but I remember that Madhyamaka schools in general treat certain truths as provisional, "skillful means" and so on, and then there's Zen which eludes conceptualization.
>consolidated enough to consolidate/totalize the world as something to point at
The individual needs to be aware of his own alienness in the world in order to discard it; snapping out of his torpor to realize he's not "one of the Egyptians", in other words.
Speaking of the consolidation of pneuma, we were having a discussion on praxis a few days ago and you mentioned some interesting things (>>18982185), if that's fine with you I'd like to address a few points.

You said you considered dream-based praxis valid for a specific reason, I'm interested in knowing what; secondly, your points about Mulla Sadra:
>some kind of congruence with the realm that transcends it... imagine it as the pisces vesica produced by a venn diagram
The implication here is that our imagination in this closed system, although it cannot possibly influence the inevitable outcome (non-death) can still give us some kind of insight (?) into the non-ontological beyond. This goes back to our earlier discussion ITT about the experiences we've had. But can imagination really be considered praxis? To be frank I've also had the intuition that imagination had to be some kind of catalyst for the construction of a subjective image that would exist "beyond the World", but I still wouldn't call it praxis in the strict sense. It is not systematic, predictable or whatever else.
>waiting on confirmation from the World that you've Done It
Yeah I'm skeptical of concepts like stream entry (which has been brought up ITT) for that reason. I mean, if the path is only aligned to the individual's own incomprehensible (from outside) Logos, the idea of "standardized spiritual achievement" becomes nonsensical. But we've talked about this already.
>a reflexive signification of something that, in-itself, is kind of "void."
>I didn't need to know what I was doing to do it.
Bear with me here; by a "void" do you mean to say that praxis is the spontaneous and unwilled, natural result of a conscious rejection of the World? That the de-worlding process happens by itself once the seed of gnostic mentality has been planted?
>As long as this doesn't justify complacency
I find myself toeing the line more often than I'd like to admit, unfortunately.

>nodes in a web as opposed to "webbed nodes"
Again it's about the consolidation of the pneuma in order to become a positive individual and produce your own space, to stop being dependent on the World?

[Anonymous No.19008022]

>>18997876
>>18997892
All living things are "conscious" brainlets.

[Anonymous No.19008029]

Two faggots detailing the thread with homosexuality

[Anonymous No.19008067]

>>19007483
This is really cringe, try less
(not being mean, I used to be even worse)

[Anonymous No.19008295]

>>19007667
>I’m From a very secular Michigan Democrat family. I’ve only been to a few memorial services as a kid, so a southern open casket funeral will be insane
A democrat don't wanna be reminded of his mortality...

[Anonymous No.19008312]

>>19008067
Nice post! You got me! Golly gee, mister, do you have some of those based pills I could take?

[Anonymous No.19008551]

>>19008295
No, i just think open caskets are disturbing and anti-human.

[Anonymous No.19008566]

>>19008004
>solipsistic dismissal...

Yes, I remember thinking how ridiculous it is that my thought could be thematized and re-thematized based on science's current understanding of the universe, I was being related to a background frame that not only was provisional but which seemed so rooted in the system I am trying to escape that I just dropped it. There is a Background, but it is impossible that its depths (once accessed) would not completely overturn what we say about it here, so again: I stopped.

>Tiantai

All truths are provisional, but there levels of provisionality and far more sophisticated turns of thought that I find unparalleled in Tiantai.

I don't think imagination is a closed system, I think it's precisely porous, like the bounds of human cognition... I really believe something that is functionally distinguishable from an angelic cognition can sneak through these boundaries and be thought through, within, and as the human. This all goes back to Laruelle: get rid of the Kantian stamp of the "human", imagine instead the human Real as a univocal field (sausage casing) much like the World instead, where bestial/infernal/angelic/celestial cognitions dance and play. The human being is a generic OS, not a "human being."

I can't find the paper on Mulla Sudra where they talk about this.

Dream-based praxis: ever seen Stalker? The will that is not your will, the subterranean will of which your rational, conscious will is only a protrusion? Some say you touch that will in your sleep: since your dream self still possesses a volition, but an unconscious one.

>By a "void"

I mean it happens without me needing to reflexively signify as this process at all, that eventually I have to go to a place where my own support is my own dynamo and not the thematizations the World foists on me.

>Again it's about the consolidation...

Yes. A star. Not saying I'm capable of it or that I've even experienced it, but yes. I don't want this to sound like some power fantasy. I just know the human spirit is a strange thing and death is strange, too.

[Anonymous No.19008799]

>>19008551
>i just think open caskets are disturbing and anti-human.
Why anon?
I guess we always dealt with our dead this way, in most cultures.
It's a recent phenomenon, we hiding them from our view. We like to think we're gonna live forever and countering that ain't no better Memento Mori.
So seeing a corpse is human all too human.
Don't fool yourself claiming it is for the dignity of the deceased person, It's FOR YOU that you wanna hide it from your view.

[Anonymous No.19009088]

>>19005589
Are you me?

Weed really brings this metaphysical claustrophobia in me sometimes. This is the first time i see someone else brings this topic up, and so precisely

[Anonymous No.19009098]

>>19005596
>>19005600
>>19005615
>>19005632
>>19009088

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[Anonymous No.19009128]

>>19009098
have sex

[Anonymous No.19009145]

>>19009128
u

[Anonymous No.19009152]

>>19009098
cringe

[Anonymous No.19009201]

>>19008566
>The human being is a generic OS, not a "human being."
Multifarious and malleable, not fixed or determined... Most of the points we discuss apparently tie back to Laruelle so I guess I should just get on Future Christ, then at least we'll be on a more even wavelength.
> ever seen Stalker?
Haven't actually, is it as good as they say?
You call the conscious will a protrusion of the subterranean (subconscious or unconscious), isn't that an admission of the inextricability of the luminous mind from darkness? I mean, if the goal in psychological terms is to excise the jungian shadow, surely the dark womb of the unconscious doesn't constitute the "main" will, the one that should be salvaged.
Anyway, yes, the unconscious is accessed during dreams, but considering dream praxis hinges on lucidity, you lose that unconscious volition. The realm of the unconscious is explored consciously.
>Not saying I'm capable of it or that I've even experienced it
It should be a potentiality within individuals at the very least. If we're talking about it, I'd wager it means we are able to attain it, and will eventually. Or maybe that's wishful thinking, I don't know — for all the darkness that surrounds and asphyxiates life, I still can't seem to abandon a certain soteriological optimism.

[Anonymous No.19009243]

>>19009201
I really don't want to sound like a high priest of non-philosophy, an identical notion is present in Tiantai: the Six Realms of Samsara are "fractally" reproduced within each realm: there are pretic devas as there are asuric humans, devic animals as there are human-like hell-beings.

>you call the conscious will

I mean the waking self, still partitioned from sleep that it feels opposed, braced against, who and what you are as the subtle will of the dream-self. I'm not relapsing into Freudian shenanigans: Topper says the goal of practice is to neutralize the discontinuity between waking and sleeping, until the non-self of sleep is the self of everyday life and the self of everyday life is the non-self of sleep. Remember that Evola says the nigredo is maintaining consciousness in deep sleep: your inner void. Don't try that one at home, though, kids.

>Surely the dark womb of the unconscious...

That's precisely the point, you're not redeeming the shadow, just burning away the dross and torpor around that "main" will. I've experienced it myself: I've made commitments to overcome my animality that translate to commitments held by my dream-self. Even my dream-self has been like "nah nigga, I don't wanna do that..." I've actually crushed and resisted wet dreams in real-time. You have to build CONTINUITY.

I just try to stay grounded and not overextended into things I end up regretting, that's all. There is deep darkness but nothing will ever eradicate my intuition of light.

[Anonymous No.19009329]

>>19009243
>neutralize the discontinuity between waking and sleeping
Oh yeah absolutely, that's the main point of the practice. For the Bardos of dream, sleep and waking life to be a continuous process with no real interruption or break. Only then is the "ground" of being accessible.
I didn't know Evola brought it up, in which of his books was it?
>Don't try that one at home
Well, you're gonna have to eventually if you want to get serious about this. How did you manage to overcome your dream self if not by building a progressive mastery over the sleep state? It might not involve awareness during deep sleep, but it sure builds up to it.

[Anonymous No.19009366]

>>19009329
That would be his book on Hermeticism and Alchemy. Unfortunately he doesn't provide any step-by-step instructions.

>How did you manage to overcome your dream self...

Right, I will eventually. Evola says if you fuck up you're dead or mind fucked forever. It basically tests if you can be you without the customary support of your body. I really enjoy studying this shit and these conversations also but I really got to get to fucking work with it.

As always, it's been a pleasure.

[Anonymous No.19009409]

>>19009366
>he doesn't provide any step-by-step instructions.
That would (apparently) be the Introduction to Magic books, but I found the instructions very vague even there so I don't think any of his books can be used as a strict guideline for praxis. Bardon is much easier to follow, but even to me who isn't well-versed in esotericism I can tell he doesn't avoid the monistic pitfalls of western occultism. I guess there's also Taoist alchemy but that's a wholly different beast, no dream focus at all there.
>I really got to get to fucking work with it.
Yeah, you're right.
Likewise, those conversations are always enjoyable. Have a good one.

[Anonymous No.19010157]

>>19000310
>Just read the Wikipedia summary
The absolute state of /lit/

[Anonymous No.19011135]

>>18996541
Never born, never lived, never died

[Anonymous No.19011287]

>>18997857
If our brains are made up of atoms and atoms create consciousness, then even inanimate objects have consciousness (not in any sense we can imagine, but a tiny fraction of a fraction of what together creates consciousness for us). I feel like materialists don't grapple fully with the implications of their own view.

[Anonymous No.19011294]

>>18997919
>Death anxiety, fear of future tragedies, horrible ways in you and the people around you could die, crushing despair of cosmic loneliness, awareness of slaughter house called history, awareness of billions of years of mindless slaughter in animal kingdom, awareness that just for your survival bulls and chickens go in your mouth and come out from your asshole, awareness of futility, awareness that you're an insignificant being (like the 106 billion people who came on this planet) who will die and will be eaten by worms someday, awareness of tragic sense of history in which eventually all civilization perish and eventually the universe will perish too, awareness that common products that you use are made by slave labour and so and so on.
None of what you listed is an evolutionary disadvantage. Evolutionary advantage = helps people survive & reproduce. Doesn't mean it makes us feel fuzzy inside.

[Anonymous No.19011299]

>>18996541
do vipassana an hour every day for a month then do self inquiry all day then take 5 meo dmt four or five times and you'll see what happens when you die.

[Anonymous No.19011340]

>>19007514
read The Will To Power by Nietzsche.

[Anonymous No.19011354]

>>19011287
Materialists simply deny the hard problem. Do you even know the hard problem? Because I don’t think you’ve done as much research as the ones who make compelling arguments that the brain state leads to brain states. You are in the mind/soul camp who says brain states send up thoughts and back down again… but that doesn’t mean you’ve solved anything.

[Anonymous No.19011356]

>>18996541
Death cannot be experienced and therefore isn't real.

[Anonymous No.19011489]

>>19011340
Just quickly looking over summaries online, it looks like something in the right direction. Thanks.

[Anonymous No.19011973]

>>19011294
How it is not a disadvantage ye dumb cunt? Making a living hell of someone's main to the point of committing is a disadvantage, probably the greatest one.

[Anonymous No.19011984]

>>19011973
*someone's mind

[Anonymous No.19012710]

Bimp

[Anonymous No.19012935]

What do you all neognostics think about Materialist Gnosis, as mentioned in pic related?

[Anonymous No.19013670]

>>19009243
You don't coom at all? How

[Anonymous No.19013691]

>>18996541
>The only thing all of us have in common is that some day, we will all die.
This is a Platonically life/truth-affirming statement and should be heralded by all after reading the Phaedo and Parmenides.

[Anonymous No.19014250]

>>19012935
materialism is wrong

[Anonymous No.19014255]

>>19014250
How so? Everyone feel pain and suffer.

[Anonymous No.19014353]

>>19014255
That has nothing to do with materialism

[Anonymous No.19014409]

>>19014353
I haven't seen anything other thing besides this reality so I think what I see is real because beings suffer.

[Anonymous No.19014421]

>>19014409
Consciousness refutes materialism
Not gonna have this discussion though because it's been brought up already ITT

[Anonymous No.19014467]

>>19014421
>Consciousness refutes materialism
No, it doesn't. Brain is the generator of consciousness which is proven by neuroscience.

[Anonymous No.19014473]

>>19014467
lol

[Anonymous No.19014482]

>>19014467
You can't even prove another person is conscious.

[Anonymous No.19014485]

>>19014482
Let brainlets be brainlets. I am becoming increasingly convinced that people who don't understand the hard problem actually lack consciousness

[Anonymous No.19014519]

>>19014482
Then you might as well say that you're a solipsist. When I see someone crying with pain on the street intuitively I go there to help him because empathy is an objective part of human DNA

[Anonymous No.19014714]

God invented life so death had something to eat

[Anonymous No.19014726]

The last movement of Mahler’s 9th symphony i think is one of the few sensual things that captures the feeling of the “vastness” that some have spoken of in here, The entire thing balances the sense of dread, wonder, and hope at the final mystery. I urge anons to listen to it,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SY301g42vO8

[Anonymous No.19014735]

Was Becker right when he argued that all of human society is a massive larp in the face of death?

[Anonymous No.19014754]

>>19014735
Yes.
I also agree with his description on what causes depressions, paranoia and schizophrenia.

[Anonymous No.19014811]

>>19014754

Was it drugs?? Because I have psychosis and the cause was definitely drugs

[Anonymous No.19014827]

>>19014811
Becker would argue that it was not the drugs themselves, but rather that they lifted the veil, so to speak.

[Anonymous No.19014831]

>>19013670
Not saying I've mastered my sexuality, but yes when I'm on a roll, it is absolutely possible to overpower a wet dream while still dreaming.

>>19014726
Is this the symphony where he's explicitly struggling with his mortality? I will give it a listen anon.

[Anonymous No.19014842]

>>19012935
>muh outside is horror

Exhausted with this kitsch. I've become increasingly convinced that those who believe the Outside is a pure horror are just describing their own Reals or telluria. Over it, been there, done that, ate the cheeseburger, bought the t-shirt. The geist is hungry for something new.

[Anonymous No.19014848]

>>19014831
yes, he died very shortly after it was finished.

[Anonymous No.19014852]

>>18998089
Good post, but missing the option that the distinction between subject and reality may be have multiple simultaneously true answers.
An infinitely thin piece of paper appears to be nothing when turned on its side. But when facing the painting we see a picture. It is both nothing and everything.
Subject may be both nothing/emptiness and the ground of everything.

[Anonymous No.19014855]

>>19014831
What's your method for overpowering sexual urges? At most I can nofap for a week, ten days, but eventually I become a fucking animal until I relapse

[Anonymous No.19014876]

>>19013670
>>19014831
One day I was having a wet dream and somehow I gained control over the process and yelled in my mind "NOT TODAY MOSHIE" and then woke laughing a like a madman because I knew 4chan has fried my brain.

[Anonymous No.19014880]

>>18996541
I want to die right now. I have had enough.

[Anonymous No.19014901]

>>19014827

I KNEW IT

THE VISIONS WERE RIGHT

I AM GOD

[Anonymous No.19014910]

>>19014901
Now your in Schizophrenia territory to cope with your insignificance

[Anonymous No.19014913]

>>18996541
I find the idea of suicide more warming than waiting to die

[Anonymous No.19014919]

Anyone read The Worm at the Core? Is it a useful elaboration of Becker, or just fluff?

[Anonymous No.19014926]

>>19014876
Lmao I recall my dream self once being like NO NIGGER NOT TODAY GODDAMNIT and it worked.

>>19014848
Excellent, thought so, thanks. Mahler knew what was up. He stared into the void.

>>19014855
Don't worry buddy I struggled for years barely breaking 10 - 14 days each time. Here's my secret: getting so fucking goddamn sick of yourself your body naturally shuts it down (WITHOUT repressing it, not damming it, draining it). Pure rage against the animal automatism of your body.

Only when you've struggled against a force as primal as sexuality WILL YOU KNOW little nigga that the body has a will of its own. I don't have wet dreams anymore (sexual narratives), I have "physiological memories": remember this??? you know you want to............

Don't get neurotic and count days. Don't treat it like a transaction: if I don't coom for 2 weeks, I will gain x points in personality. Nah. Do it to plug an incontinence. Eventually you'll experience yourself enough in a more controlled, "continent" mode that your center of gravity will start to move towards that. It's an extremely long and arduous process. It's also something you shouldn't reify. The world is bigger than the struggle to not coom (but never let the urge to coom in on that secret; it will ALWAYS try to reduce itself in your eyes).

Listen: it's a consequence of your overall drive towards self-mastery, not its cause.

Eventually your commitment sinks deep enough that your dream self takes note. And there's no better feeling than waking up knowing you conquered the nigger demon for a night kek.

[Anonymous No.19014951]

>>19014855
I would also recommend drinking and smoking weed to experience those urges in their full intensity. Nofap sober is child's play, nofap 4 shots and 3 blunts deep is Herculean.

[Anonymous No.19014977]

>>19014910

AND ITS WORKING OUT GREAT

Be gone fool before i get my dick out

[Anonymous No.19014990]

>>19014735
How could he be? Even if he were right, you could never prove it so. It can never be more than speculation and ironically, one which is self contradicting.

[Anonymous No.19014995]

>>19014926
What do you feel now when you see lewd posts on here for example?
I feel a repulsion towards the body but it's overpowered by the body's urges. I mean I can be literally disgusted at flesh in general yet still want to jack off to degenerate shit at the same time, I'm definitely aware that the body has its own will and so far it's always won over mine. "Dude it's fine, it'll feel great and then you can move on to something else, look at that ass" it's always compromises, rationalizing and excuses. In that sense I'm not sure how to tame the desire without repressing it, since disgust seems insufficient

[Anonymous No.19015009]

>>19007380
I've had this feeling even taking it further in some ways. There is a worldview I flirt with - I try it on like clothes - though I have a hard time persisting it continually, where I see anything that happens as happening for me specifically and also my responsibility.
You know how movies the main character is fighting a bad guy or trying desperately to overcome some problem, but you as the audience know that the problem only exists for him? You realize how every problem this character faces is scaled directly to match his difficultly level, to push him on and keep the story going?
It feels like that. As if the whole world were a special gift for me and I could do no wrong. I get a glimpse of "the script" and it's bliss. Behind the process is this overwhelming love for me specifically. But then I come down and think wtf was I thinking?
Like you, I want to trust the universe. I want to make the feeling stick. But also there is a fear. Do we deceive ourselves?
In my prayers I have started to form an answer. I think this process likes variety. God does not mind tension, contradiction. A grand soul accepts that it is pulled multiple ways at once, accepts even that it cannot accept. Even this is not the answer. At a certain point spiritual growth becomes inexpressible.

[Anonymous No.19015015]

>>19014990
Why do you think it is self contradicting?

[Anonymous No.19015044]

>>18996541
yeah, maybe you'll die, not me bud
i'm too smart to take that trip

[Anonymous No.19015055]

>>19014995
>What do you feel now when you see lewd posts on here for example?

Most of the time, nothing. I just laugh. Sometimes I'll just stare at them and feel nothing, and it feels good to feel nothing. Other times, my neurosis built up over years of repeated failure (too many promises broken to myself) makes me nervous that I will betray my commitment if I linger on an image too much, but even that has been waning.

The less I invest in the feeling of feeling good that I've mastered it, the more I master it. Do you see?

Don't worry buddy, I've experienced dualities in me with regards to that exactly (EXACTLY) that I've been convinced I am damned. How do you think a nigga gets into these rabbit holes to begin with? To understand. But just remember, every time you fail you're slowly building that light body that is beyond it all. Others are naturally purer. I have been impure, so it's been harder for me, but if I can do it (and I'm still working on it), you can too.

Jung called sexuality a cosmic spirit. Gurdjieff said only when you truly begin your war against this force that you understand to what extent you are its utter, simping bitch.

You're struggling against an extremely powerful force which, ironically, when you ride out an urge wave, is nothing at all.

[Anonymous No.19015075]

>>18997668
Based.
>>18997857
>The "soul" or whatever hell you envision for yourself simply doesn't exist
>you
Who?
If you don't understand what soul is, it is the subject who envisions for himself.
>yourself
Who is it?
>and your consciousness
Whose consciousness?
>consciousness is just the synapses firing in your brain
Synapses firing lies in the field of objectivity, while consciousness is subjective and/or (depending on what you mean by that) subjective cum objective.

[Anonymous No.19015077]

>>19015015
Because the basis for denying the existence of the supernatural, in this case as it relates to death and dying, relies on natural methods, which you can’t actually do. You can’t use natural evidence to prove nor disprove the supernatural. That should be obvious but apparently it’s not. All you can do is use natural evidence (i.e. the scientific method) to suggest that the supernatural does not exist, but that’s self contradicting because there’s no natural evidence to prove that’s even reliable. You have to rely on things like logic, which doesn’t have natural evidence. So the same methods you’d use to suggest the afterlife doesn’t exist would suggest the method you’d use to do so also doesn’t exist, which makes no sense. The only way this breaks down is you escape the supernatural vs natural dichotomy, which you can’t and even if you did, to talk of being right or wrong would be absurd.

[Anonymous No.19015141]

I can’t accept that sexuality is prima facie wrong or bad to involve oneself in. I remember UG saying that it was needless self-torture to ignore these bodily urges. On the other hand i’m increasingly disgusted by pornography and the relentless pursuit of sexuality for its own sake. I have a girlfriend and we have sex regularly. What do i do asceticism bros?

[Anonymous No.19015142]

>>19015077
I'm not sure I understand why you focus on ideas of the supernatural in a discussion of Beckers ideas on death.

[Anonymous No.19015191]

>>19015077
If schizos have fucked everyone's brain since forever with their supernatural theories then why do schizos get buttblasted when someone reject their claims? If he was contradicting himself then by pointing out his contradiction, you're contradicting yourself too.

[Anonymous No.19015218]

>>19005589
>>19005632
>>19007380
>>19007514
>>18997668
>>18998089
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1nAKggYij4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF503RdDMZA
Kashmir Shaivism The Secret Supreme.

[Anonymous No.19015295]

>>19015141
I can't reconcile spirituality with cooming. If you can, that is your nature, but just make sure it isn't your little head talking. I just think UG was a bit of a coomer, but I would very hesitant to generalize the "flavor" of my sexuality as the flavor of everybody else's. I don't like it. I think it's undignified, but I also accept making love is a beautiful thing.

Yeah you should definitely eliminate pornography though no matter what. Real sex should be as rare as real love.

[Anonymous No.19015303]

>>18996541
I'm going through a tough period in which bad things keep happening after bad things. In any case my most comforting thought is that my death is certain and no one can take it away from me. One day I will finally be dead and all the pain is nothing but temporary.

[Anonymous No.19015369]

>>19015141
Don't listen to this >>19015295 spooked fag who is afraid of his own shit. I can imagine him having panic attacks when he smells his shit every morning.

These are your natural urges so don't feel guilty about having a gf. And it's good in moderation. He said desire is necessary because without you will literally die. Cancel out the coomer stuff. UG said that this is the great illusion of le enlightenment, that it always implies future, anytime but not right now. But what about right now? He said that there is so much clam in present moment which one needs to just acknowledge. Have no fear and learn to stand on your own two feet, don't worry you will not fall.

[Anonymous No.19015397]

[Anonymous No.19015429]

>>19015055
What's your relationship towards actual sex? Weirdly enough I don't particularly like sex and jacking off feels vastly more pleasant which is unfortunate.
I get what you're saying. The most stressful part is that sex is not the only one of these forces to struggle against, I mean I can convince myself that shitty sugary food and passive consumptive hobbies don't affect me spiritually but I'm just fooling myself

[Anonymous No.19015467]

>>19015369
mamby pamby reddit bullshit. this is a thread about death and asceticism.

>>19015429
Physical pleasure is losing its charge for me as I get older. I still enjoy what I can but it doesn't occupy my mind like it once did. It's as simple as that. Anyone trying to make this about narcissism or virtue signaling or being afraid of my own shit (?) is still a 21 yr old kid who has no idea what I'm talking about.

[Anonymous No.19015500]

>>19015467
>asceticism
No, it's not. It's wasn't about till a narcissistic cunt like you came and started shaking his dick. It's easy for you to preach such shit when your belly is fully and you live in a privileged environment. You might be an Epicurean hedonist but stop flying in the delusion that you're an ascetic.

[Anonymous No.19015517]

>>19015500
I never said I was an ascetic, I said this is a thread about asceticism.

[Anonymous No.19015547]

>>19015467
How old are you? I know people who are in their fifties and still can't do without good food, a good fuck, being "high on life" or whatever they call it. I think it's more of a temperament than a matter of age. where do you draw the line between enjoying pleasures reasonably and losing yourself

[Anonymous No.19015564]

>>19015547
I am 31.

I've fallen down enough times to know when I'm silencing my better part to indulge in something. The struggle never ends.

[Anonymous No.19015573]

>>19015564
Do you plan on being a genuine ascetic eventually?

[Anonymous No.19015583]

>>19015517
Sorry I thought you were that guy who was replying with anime image ITT. But you should read the title of this thread, it's death general

[Anonymous No.19015599]

>>19015583
There is unironically nothing wrong with anime

[Anonymous No.19015601]

>>19015583
I am that guy, and I was speaking to someone who I've been speaking to about other topics over a number of different threads. I stopped and then someone asked me about wet dreams.

>>19015573
I want to try.

[Anonymous No.19015621]

>>19005596
Last time I've taken shrooms I spent the majority of my trip convinced that I am dying or that I am already dead. After the trip this leaked into my sober day to day life and in the upcoming months I had my first ever panic attacks then long persisting derealization/depersonalization and random heart palpitations. I had to go to therapy which I never imagined I will have to do someday. I often feel that I have become a worse person because of my shroom trip. Although it got me into gourmet mushroom cultivation lol. Anyway if you wanna try shrooms start by low doses and don't listen to gurus who encourage you to take heroic doses.

[Anonymous No.19015634]

>>19015295
I don't think anything binds you to this world more than romantic love. Parental love perhaps.

[Anonymous No.19015638]

>>19005671
basically the chapter The Whiteness of the Whale from Moby Dick

[Anonymous No.19015656]

>>19015634
I agree completely.

[Anonymous No.19015672]

>>19015599
I agree

>>19015601
Then I was right about the Epicurean hedonism. Please tone down the smugness, you know you could have born in some 3rld world shithole or in some other shite circumstances so there is nothing wrong in being humble for your privileges which have granted you knowledge.

I wish you good luck on the path to becoming an ascetic anon.

[Anonymous No.19015697]

>>19015672
What smugness? I'm just sharing what I happen to know, but all right, thank you, and sorry for giving you shit.

[Anonymous No.19015723]

>>19015656
It's a dangerous beauty, then, one that should be avoided at all costs. It's better to have never loved at all.

[Anonymous No.19015732]

>>19015697
Fuck that

Can you please recommend some introductory books on whatever you were discussing earlier in the thread? Mainly how does it deals with evil much better than non dualism?

[Anonymous No.19015734]

>>19015397
This SCP scared the shit out of me.

[Anonymous No.19015755]

>>19015723
I take it you've loved and lost, then? It gets better.

>>19015732
Start with Schelling's essay on human freedom.

Then: https://www.jstor.org/stable/25676936?seq=1

If you want the Gnosticism, Hans Jonas.

[Anonymous No.19015799]

>>19015755
Yeah I am more interested in Gnosticism
I think that there are a lot of parallels between philosophical pessimism and Gnosticism. What do you think about that?

[Anonymous No.19015808]

>>19015799
You'd be right, and Hans Jonas agrees.

Start with Jacques Lacarriere's Gnosis, THEN Jonas. Available online. Woo buddy, if you want pessimism...

[Anonymous No.19015830]

>>19015755
I'm actually thankful to have never loved, used to think it was something to lament, but now I've wisened up. I wonder if being bitter and resentful towards the world is as bad as it's said to be.

[Anonymous No.19015848]

>>19015634
Romantic love is merely oxytocin, dopamine, and serotonin. The effect fades way after 2 years tops, that's way the average relationship struggles after 2 years.
You could say nothing binds you to this world more than heroin and you would be repeating yourself.
Parental love is forever though, no one will ever love me more than my mom.

[Anonymous No.19015865]

>>19015830
Now I've loved and lost, so this is interesting to me. We're talking across the divide. What do you think it's like for me? What do you think is so terrible about it? Not saying it isn't. I'm not some sniveling cocksucker who thinks you're coping, I just wanna know your reasons for thinking this.

[Anonymous No.19015873]

>>19015808
Thank you

Cioran frequently made references to gnostics. Gotta learn what was their whole deal.

[Anonymous No.19016045]

>>19015865
>What do you think it's like for me?
Hard to say but I would imagine that the feeling would mark you, providing yet another possibility for attachment. When you don't know, there's nothing to be attached to.
I'm not saying it's terrible, just that it's a handicap, probably the worst one, but you seem to be dealing with it more than adequately.
I actually did almost buy into the bullshit from the "cope, have sex" golem crowd but I eventually came to realize my natural disposition just wasn't aligned to those things, which I'm now thankful for.
Do you think it's better to have loved and lost?

[Anonymous No.19016050]

>>19015621
Generally that comes from taking too much too early on. Heroic doses are fine if you've had enough experience before. I've had DPDR for years from general anxiety, heroic doses of shrooms actually helped me because they taught me that no matter how crazy or absurd or unreal things seem, I'll still be safe.

[Anonymous No.19016144]

>>19016045
It has marked me. First I was attached, but then it became just another ingredient on the path to detachment - a major one. It's hard to be alone when you've gotten a taste of what it's like to not be alone. It's pretty tortuous, and for many years I handled it less than adequately.

Pining after counterfactual teenage love is a waste of time and honestly mostly a symptom of Hollywood culture. Love is real, just exceedingly rare, and there's nothing wrong with having been denied it. For 99% of my life, you and I have been in the same shoes. So it's all the same in the end.

[Anonymous No.19016248]

>>19016144
By ingredient I guess you mean you've used this feeling to you own advantage instead of having it shackle you.
Yes I imagine solitude is hard to bear if you've known something genuine with another person, but I also assume this kind of authentic love is better treated as a fluke than anything else.
I agree that the >tfw missed out on teen love thing is absolute mind cancer. All in all, the fear of missing out, and the regret that comes with it, come from the assumption that there's something worth hanging on to in this world.

[Anonymous No.19016278]

>>19016144
Stop mystifying love or whatever. It has been proven that being in love is akin to being high on amphetamines. It's not rare and not special.

[Anonymous No.19016281]

>>19016248
I'm using it as rocket fuel. I know I've loved people, that love was real, but it also hurts like a cunt and I will never depend on something as fickle as a human being for that feeling ever again. It's taught me how to be truly alone. I think you're right though, it has made me feel like deliverance is possible, even if it is extremely rare. I will keep your words in mind. I hope you find that love or A love on the other side, brother.

[Anonymous No.19016290]

>>19016278
>has never loved
>can't distinguish between love and infatuation
Oh friend. Friend friend friend. Kek.

[Anonymous No.19016327]

>>19016045
>>19016144
So it's just the preparation for death? Striping your being naked of all attachments so when the times comes you(or whatever the fuck remains of a (You)) could easily slip into the void?

[Anonymous No.19016332]

>>19016281
Thank you. I hope you find deliverance as well.