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[ERROR] No.19089850 [Reply] [Original]

Which books will make me into an atheist?
I'm not baiting I only want advice on what to read.
Should I start with pic related's introductory works (Genealogy of morals, Twilight of the idols)? I haven't read books by new atheism authors like Hitchens and Dawkins because I don't think they'd be very convincing.

>> No.19089855

The holy bible

>> No.19089862

The portable Nietzsche is good

>> No.19089870

>>19089862
Isn't it just a compilation of Nietzsche's writings?

>> No.19089871

>>19089850
Just go with the flow of modern society. You don't need a book to become what they call a (((functioning member of society)))

>> No.19089873

>>19089871
I'm not concerned with conformity or contrarianism, I want book recommendations.

>> No.19089887

>>19089850
>born as a christian, priest of a father
>atheist against my father, agnostic to not make mother sad
>grow up and actually think about it
>the world is just too fucking orderly and chaotic at the same time to just be a random fluke
>can't help but stay agnostic
i don't know, my mind is forcing me into agnosticism

>> No.19089889

>>19089887
>>the world is just too fucking orderly and chaotic
When thinking about these things the only conclusion I'm able to come to is that the world is unexplainable and the nature of reality is incomprehensible
Agnosticism makes sense as a transitory thing but in the end what do you really believe?

>> No.19089896

Why would you want to be an atheist if you have faith? I say this as somebody who has been atheist his entire life due to the way I was raised. As somebody who has never in his life actually believed in god, why would you want to give that up? I'd flip the belief switch to "on" if I could, but it doesn't work that way.

>> No.19089905

>>19089850
Why do you want to be an atheist? And why is it hard for you? Not being an atheist requires adopting unsubstantiated axioms of truth, which is fine, but I can't see why being an atheist would be hard.

>> No.19089906

>>19089896
I don't have faith in anything, but I'm still a bit uncertain and hesitant, I've always had trouble committing. And honestly if I could choose I'd rather be an atheist than a theist because the latter just seems like delusion to me, and even if it weren't I find atheism to be a preferable outcome so I'd choose that.
I hoped the thread wouldn't be about debating beliefs though, I'd really like some actual books

>> No.19089907

>>19089889
>in the end what do you really believe?
I shelved the thoughts after I accidentally hit existential dread that one time.
In general, I've placed my belief of the matter that the world most likely was created or generated by something.
But since I don't know and have never found proof of said something, I'll just bandwagon and join the fun whenever a new idea pops up.
I had a blast with the whole 50/50 simulation, and at one point I was really into the whole;
>inbetween orions belt is where the soul goes upon death
>why? look at the sphinx, look at the ancient architecture
>all places of worship point to those very stars
So, I suppose I'm up for grabs if a very believable religion pops up?

>> No.19089916

>>19089906
It sounds like you're already atheist then and just struggling to accept it. In my view, being atheist is just normal, the default position for a skeptical, rational person, and religious people are possessed of some overpowering faith that causes them to believe in something they otherwise would have no reason to believe in. For me, that moment of faith never happened, so I've remained in the default atheist position my entire life.

>> No.19089918

>>19089905
I'm just still uncertain. I've always had a propensity for unrealistic thinking and fantasy, what ifs and all.
>>19089907
Maybe the world was created, maybe it's an infinite regress, or maybe it's neither and the truth of things can't be understood.
I've never heard about the orion's belt thing

>> No.19089927

>>19089916
>just struggling to accept it.
As I said I'm prone to entertaining what ifs and hypotheticals that give me doubt. I agree with what you said but I guess there's an emotional side which is what I'm looking to fully sway

>> No.19089929

>>19089918
The most recent of those ideas is anchored in the whole 'world flooding' that happened way way back.
Before the world flood, all civilized places on earth, both american, european and asian all have mythologies surrounding that very flooding.
At any rate, before the flood all buildings of worship around the world were pointed at the one and same cluster of stars.
>which direction is the sphinx pointing? exact to the meter towards the orions belt
>which direction is the buildings in south america pointing? exact to the meter towards orions belt
>which direction is the newly excavated buildings in western russia pointing? exact to the meter towards orions belt
And within some of said ruins, there are ancient scriptures carved in rock that mention said stars. It's very interesting, and I did like following it. It's extremely ancient and shows that somehow all civilizations on earth were connected in an extremely ancient era. Atleast, the religions were very closely related.

>> No.19089932
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>>19089850
Just read scholarly work on the early church, stuff not written by Christian apologists.

7 of the epistles of Paul are the oldest Christian texts. The gospels are plainly reconstructed long after the events happened and are bullshit, some passages appear to be word for word copied from the same source.

Many of the epistles are fake. And on top of this, circa many of the "real" Christian texts the era produced dozens of fake gospels and epistles. Forgeries and fakes were rampant in the early church, and even earnest Christians admit that.

Unfortunately much of the teachings of alternate sects of Christianity were lost, but some survived and texts were buried in jars in the early middle ages.

In fact, there are even buried texts founds of forgeries in progress!

Any honest reading of history will reveal what a dank, rotten smell the church has.

>> No.19089936

>>19089929
I see. That's pretty interesting. In the end though there's really no way to know what it means, it could be anything from coincidence to aliens to something else, who knows.
>>19089932
Oh I'm not really looking for a refutation of christianity specifically but thanks

>> No.19089941

>>19089927
When it comes to belief in god, you either have it or you don't. Some people like to tout agnosticism as some magic third option to the question of belief, but it isn't. It's just a qualifier for your belief or lack thereof. If you can't profess a belief in god, even a qualified, uncertain belief, then you're atheist. Most people who identify as agnostics are really just atheists, in my experience, and are reluctant for one reason or another to admit the fact. The truth always comes out, as it did here, when you pointedly ask them if they believe, and they can't admit to even the tiniest sliver of belief in god. There's no simpler definition of an atheist than that.

>> No.19089943

>>19089855
Unironically this. You can't read through all of this and think "it's true, all of it"

>> No.19089949
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>>19089936
>interesting, aliens
It started getting weird though because those stone scriptures mentioned their rituals for communing and apparantly it had a lot to do with ayahuasca.
At that point all the threads and forums discussing the religion devolved into drugs and hippie garbage.
>take ayahuasca
>do the ritual, aim your soul towards the orions belt
>pass by the middle star slightly to the right for the living, left for the dead
>get premonitions and whatnot from the right
>when you die, remember to go to the left!
So, it devolved almost over night at that point.
I'm still sad that the discussions died and nothing but druggies talk about it anymore.
I tried sending mail to one of the professors in charge of the excavations in russia to discuss a little bit, but never got a reply.

>> No.19089956

a short, elegant refutation of Christianity
https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.247198

>> No.19089958

>>19089941
You're probably right. I guess I'm an atheist who for some reason doesn't fully acknowledge it yet. I've never believed in a personal god and find the idea ridiculous, as for a more abstract plotinian or spinozist "god" I don't see the point and I don't really believe in that either. Materialists are monists too, so in the end whether you call everything "god" or "matter" isn't particularly relevant.
Well that being said I'm still curious about atheist philosophers in general and wonder if there's anything worth reading out there

>> No.19089961

>>19089949
It's true that there's some weird stuff when it comes to drug reports like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHLpB38LNg4 for example but who's to say it can't be chalked up to some kind of evolutive consciousness or jungian collective unconscious, or something like that? It's a more boring explanation than aliens and pleiadians and whatever but it seems more likely.
>go to the left
kek why?

>> No.19089970

>>19089961
>go to the left
I have no real clue. The junkies that tried it and went to the right said they experienced a trip around the milky way and could see places on earth unknown to them.
>asgard, kingdom of heaven, utopias
I lobbied damned hard and even offered to sponsor one of them to try the left, but they all chickened out after their experience on the right.
At any rate, they became believers of that whole thing. I've even contemplated trying it myself but I have zero connections when it comes to drugs and would with 99% certainty overdose and die on the spot.
>why is nothing happening?
>the world is rainbow colored
>let's try another
>die
I'm not very spiritual, which is a problem.

>> No.19089975

>>19089970
Weird stuff. Not sure what conclusion to come to about it but there's plenty of unexplained things. I wish everything would be revealed eventually but I doubt it.
>I have zero connections when it comes to drugs and would with 99% certainty overdose and die on the spot.
DMT is easy to make and ODing is pretty much impossible

>> No.19090036

The Diamond sutra

>> No.19090105

I have a related question, I'm a former Christian and am looking for a way to rid myself of the influence of my upbringing, mainly seeing everything exterior to the faith as demonic and satanic, or being distrustful of what is not Christian in general. Which books can help me acquire a more objective perspective?

>> No.19090123

>>19090105
Unironically Prometheus Rising

>> No.19090131

>>19089850
There's a book called The True Believers that was on the Index Expurgatorius kept by the Vatican. It's a book deemed corrosive to faith because all it does is list what devout people do to prove their faith and love of god. That's it.
The effect on the reader is to inspire an intellectual disgust, as the book doesn't do anything but reel silly ritual after painful ordeal at you until you want to throw the whole idea of religion into some cosmic incinerator. The book seems to have no intended result, which is what makes it so insidious. Any reasonable person, faced with this barrage of self-whipping, starving, kneeling on rocks maniacs, would naturally discard their faith.

>> No.19090134

>>19089956
You can't refute a belief system

>> No.19090139

>>19089870
Yes, I don't get why people keep shilling it. Kaufmann's ghost probably lives on this board.

>> No.19090140

>>19090131
Sounds interesting, thank you.

>> No.19090147

>>19090131
Assuming you're talking about the book by Eric Hoffer I can't find anything about the Vatican condemning it.

>> No.19090163

OP, you should take a few days of introspection to see where your heart truly resides. Faith in religion is a belief, it has nothing to do with logic.
As for me, I'm the only person I know IRL that is not religious, atheistic or agnostic. Whenever someone asks me about my beliefs, I tell them that I don't really care if God exists or not as the thought doesn't really occur to me and I don't see how it would impact my life. You don't need an opinion on everything.

>>19090105
Nietzsche's On The Genealogy of Morals. It doesn't deal with christian faith, but christian morality.

>> No.19090168

>>19090163
You're what they call an "apatheist"

>> No.19090170

>>19090163
Does it deal with the Christian tendency to demonize everything? Honestly this has been giving me a lot of trouble and I feel like I've been brainwashed, I'm not even memeing.

>> No.19090187

>>19090163
>As for me, I'm the only person I know IRL that is not religious, atheistic or agnostic
>I need SOME way to feel unique

>> No.19090320

>>19090170
>does it deal with the christian tendency to demonize everything
Yes. Nietzsche proposes very convincing theories with historical and linguistic substantiation on how the christian morals label things as good or evil. As some other anon has mentioned, being aware of those mechanisms demystify them. I'd love to give you a summary but there are a lot of readings of Nietzsche and I don't want to taint your perception of the book with my personal interpretation.

>>19090168
I see. Useful definition. Thanks.

>>19090187
I really don't. Try to make your posts less green.

>> No.19090331

>>19090320
Thanks. Genealogy of Morals is the first one I should read then, followed by what? If I'm going to get into Nietzsche I might as well go all the way.

>> No.19090345

>>19090331
I believe Genealogy of Morals stands on its own as a good presentation of Nietzsche's views on morality but if you're interested in more Nietzsche I think Beyond Good and Evil is a good place to go assuming you have read some philosophy before or The Gay Science if you haven't (purely because I like how life-affirming it is). Other anons more versed in Nietzsche might give you better guidance as I haven't read all of his books.

>> No.19090346

>>19090345
Much appreciated.

>> No.19090479

>>19089850
most good books

>> No.19090481

>>19089850
Tao Te Ching
Genealogy of Morals
Twilight of the Idols
The Antichrist
A modern biology textbook

Welcome to atheism.

>> No.19090528

>>19089850
Fluid-theist here.

Read Phenomenology of Spirit when you need God. Read Feuerbach, Lenin and Stalin when you need Him at a distance. Or go /vn/ and read Euphoria.

Atheism is extremely difficult after Hegel, mind you. You're really only putting a distance between you and Him. Also, fuck Thomas Aquinas and Aristotle.

>> No.19090534

>>19089850
Non anon, God is truth and Jesus is king. Hellfire awaits atheists.

>> No.19090539

>>19090534
lol
>>19090528
>Atheism is extremely difficult after Hegel
Explain.

>> No.19090560

>>19090534
>Hellfire awaits atheists.
t. Plato and Augustine

>>19090539
>Explain
Karl Barth's title for him "Protestant Aquinas" is not a joke. "Phenomenology of Spirit", when you break down the connotations and words, means 'Study of the Appearance of Spirit'. In short if you read it in good faith the Holy Spirit will appear in your head. And if you study history, you're far more likely to make the mental connection. The Holy Spirit appeared across time and space for me.

>> No.19090565

>>19090560
Sounds like yet another book in the same vein as the Enneads, the Ethics, and so on. A nondescript God that some find compelling but I don't see the appeal. Things just are, I don't feel the need to use the term "god" to describe the essence of reality.

>> No.19090576

>>19089850
I think the problem is much more like: How to think without resorting to some sort of theological or transcendental concepts?
I'd start with Spinoza who created the first philosophy of pure immanence. Get help from secondary texts like Deleuze or Misrahi (I'm more familiar with French commentators, Anglo anons will give you other resources).
Once you're familiar with Nietzsche try "Nietzsche and the Vicious Circle" by Klossowski about the specific problems raised by absolute immanence. Also check the late Mallarmé (again French).

>> No.19090580

>take a look at the catalog
>enter the ebin orthodog thread of the day
>people seriously debating the subtleties of yahweh's divinity or whatever the fuck
This is a serious question: how does anyone actually manage to buy into this shit? I just find it sincerely baffling. They can't all be larpers, some have to be sincere.

>> No.19090587

>>19090576
>How to think without resorting to some sort of theological or transcendental concepts?
Just don't? I don't get the problem. Theology is not necessary to engage with reality, and I'm not exactly sure what you mean by transcendence here.

>> No.19090590

>>19090580
The Taliban won recently. Faith regained value. Old Protestant-Sunni alliance reborn.

>> No.19090591

>>19090590
Nah these threads have been going on for way longer than that.

>> No.19090601

>>19090576
>How to think without resorting
Just stop thinking, easiest way to become an atheist. Convince yourself that thoughts are bio-electrical impulses and you'll never feel the need to assert God ever again.

>> No.19090608

>>19090601
Seethe

>> No.19090635

>>19090481
>Tao Te Ching
Why?

>> No.19090650

>>19090635
It grounds you

>> No.19090677

>>19090650
...In Chinese superstition of cosmic balance and harmony?

>> No.19090679

>>19090677
Have you read it?

>> No.19090692

>>19090679
More than once and more than one translation

>> No.19090705
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>>19089932
>Any honest reading of history will reveal what a dank, rotten smell the church has

>> No.19090708

>>19090692
Then you should know that there's nothing superstitious about it. It's a philosophical text. It's good for meditation. You can get the same thing out of reading Heraclitus. Reading these work as a good palate cleanser before heading into Nietzsche.

>> No.19090709

>>19090677
Better than jewish superstition

>> No.19090712

>>19090705
The fact that all posts like these are inevitably met with soijaks or buzzwords as replies comforts me in my idea that christianity is a vast sham. You fell for the meme.

>> No.19090743

>>19090565
>Sounds like yet another book in the same vein as the Enneads, the Ethics, and so on. A nondescript God that some find compelling but I don't see the appeal. Things just are, I don't feel the need to use the term "god" to describe the essence of reality.

Personally, given that Hegel preceded Marx, I find it fun to describe communism in chuuni terms as the thaumaturgy of "The Materialization of the Holy Spirit" (Hegel within, Marx without). Thinking the Taliban won because the Holy Spirit helped them adds a bit of SOVL. It's (your) choice to be a mechanist or not.

The experience of Hegel furthermore overloaded my brain and I now I see a lot more between the lines when reading. Just substitute "materialism" for spirit if you must.

>> No.19090747

>>19090743
Well that's my point, really. Substituting "spirit" to "matter" adds some soul as you say but in the end provides nothing new, it doesn't fundamentally change anything.

>> No.19090777

>>19089932
C-christbros...?!

>> No.19090797
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>>19090580
>check out thread
>it's hundreds of posts of christians shitting on other christians for not agreeing with their opinion on what christianity is

>> No.19090830

>>19090747
>it doesn't fundamentally change anything.
Faith, as entertaining premises, if done properly may yet enhance neuroplasticity. Marx was half-right when he wrote religion was opium, but if you organise your prayer it can become psilocybin. Furthermore, calling upon the Three persons of the Trinity allows you to be ruthless (Father), kind (Son) or rational (Holy Spirit) when you need to. Want a mental pincushion? Mentally spear Jesus. Want to kill a boner? Think of raping Alice in front of Jesus in the Judean Desert. Tired of work? Follow Weber and dedicate your work as worship.

The material utility of faith is neural. Atheism is good for heartening the heart and reducing your enemies and dehumanizing them or focusing on research. Likewise, faith is an alternate means of thinking.

>> No.19090834

>>19090830
*hardening

>> No.19090841

>>19090830
You're presenting faith as a kind of tool which seems to me like an admission that it essentially amounts to self-delusion, no? Furthermore, you can't choose to believe, and if I could choose to believe, I most likely wouldn't, much like I wouldn't choose to believe in anything which I currently consider to be obviously false.
I don't think atheism precludes alternate means of thinking. I've never been a dogmatist, I've always remained open, maybe too much actually.

>> No.19090845

>>19090587
Unity, identity, law, etc are such concepts. Ie nature deriving from a prime idea that isn't itself taken in the stream of the universal becoming (like cosmos presupposes an ordaining force or law of some kind). An in itself by itself.

>> No.19090850

>>19090845
>Unity, identity, law
I wish we had a Stirner for metaphysics so this stuff could be put to bed already.

>> No.19090896

I have a similar question, which books will make me into a religious person?
I agree with the christian morals and think a truly religious lifestyle is the best way to achieve happiness but I'm an atheist. I want to believe in God, but I just can't.

>> No.19090902

>>19090896
Just read the bible, there are threads about your exact problem every day. And if you still can't believe after that then you need to delude yourself until you believe, with prayer and ritualism.

>> No.19090917

>>19090850
>a Stirner for metaphysics
Nietzsche

>> No.19090918

>>19090917
I would've said Wittgenstein but sure.

>> No.19090999

>>19090708
>there's nothing superstitious about it.

>Something undifferentiated was born before Heaven and Earth; still and silent, standing alone and unchanging, going through cycles unending, able to be mother to the world. I do not knows its name; I label it the Way. Imposing on it a name, I call it Great. Greatness means it goes; going means reaching afar; reaching afar means return. Therefore the Way is Great, heaven is great, earth is great, and kingship is also great. Among domains are four greats, of which kingship is one. Humanity emulates Earth, Earth emulates Heaven, Heaven emulates the Way, the Way emulates Nature.

>The Great Way is universal; it can apply to the Left or Right. The Way produces one; one produces two, two produces three, three produces all beings; all beings bear yin and embrace yang

>> No.19091080

>>19090999
>there is a unity in everything
>opposites are related
I don't see what's superstitious here. I think you're getting hung up on the terms.

>> No.19091098

>>19091080
If that's your interpretation of that passage then I shudder to think what else you've "learned" from these books you mentioned.

>> No.19091106

>>19090705
The Christcuck dutifully repeats the meme that all his friends (anonymous strangers) love to post

>> No.19091112

Je sais pas quoi regarder comme animé: Higurashi Sotsu, Sonny Boy, ou attendre la nouvelle saison de Mushoku Tensei?

>> No.19091123

>>19090677
This is like reading Plato and having your main takeaway be that you should listen to demonic voices

>> No.19091162

>>19091098
That's all you need to take from that passage. No one was suggesting to study the Tao Te Ching religiously, only to give it a cursory glance. It's a short, one time read with plenty of passages that serve a meditative function.

>> No.19091292

>>19089850
dont do it lad, i wish every day for the ability to believe in a higher being and a meaning of life.

>> No.19091450

>>19091292
Believing in nothing is liberating

>> No.19091552

>>19091450
no, for me its depressing as fuck.

>> No.19091580

>>19089850

Hegel's phenomenology of spirit + science of logic

>> No.19091790

>>19091552
why

>> No.19091801

>>19089850
Jorjani's prometheus and Atlas or just a regular dose of Hegel and Spinoza.

>> No.19092278

>>19091790
Some people are uncomfortable with the void.

>> No.19092496

>>19092278
Isn't everyone?

>> No.19092757

Bump

>> No.19092799

>>19091162
Not him, I've read the TTC but I got nothing out of it compared to Buddhist sutras or even Zen writings.

>> No.19092983
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>>19090841
>You're presenting faith as a kind of tool which seems to me like an admission that it essentially amounts to self-delusion, no?
By the correspondence theory of truth, yes. Faith with physical correspondence is no longer tenable given Darwin. So yes, Aristotle would say it is delusion.

>obviously false.
Again, correspondence theory of truth.

>I don't think atheism precludes alternate means of thinking. I've never been a dogmatist, I've always remained open, maybe too much actually.
Pride.

If you need to harden your heart, then you have the right to think as a atheist. If you want to soften your heart, then Hegel's theism works wonders. I suppose you need to harden your heart?

>> No.19093001

>>19092983
>Pride
What do you mean?

>> No.19093053
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>>19093001
>What do you mean?
The answer to whether you should be a theist or atheist depends your duties to others. If you need to be kind, be a Christian. If you need to conquer and destroy be an atheist. "Pride" pejoratively denounces (you) for considering atheism/theism as an individual manner.

>> No.19093075

>>19093053
Sounds biased and nonsensical.

>> No.19093217

>>19093075
It might be.

What do you seek?

>> No.19093251

>>19093217
>What do you seek
Something definitive. An answer, even if it turns out to be a non-answer. Peace of mind and steadfastness.

>> No.19093312

>>19089850
>Which books will make me into an atheist?
Scientific/evolutionary:
Boyer, Religion Explained
Philosophical:
Mackie, The Miracle of Theism
Historical-critical:
Ehrman, Jesus Interrupted

>> No.19093319

>>19091790
im lacking any sense of meaning or direction.
I still carry on, and that lack is freeing in a way,
but it also births pointlessnes of my actions

>> No.19093343

>>19093319
Unironically read neetchee

>> No.19093344

>>19093251
>Something definitive. An answer, even if it turns out to be a non-answer. Peace of mind and steadfastness.

Use the rule of 3 (or the Trinity if you want to think of it that way). Generally, have two medium-term goals you wish to achieve. Leave one slot open for frivolous things such as masturbation or shitposting. The achievement of goals, no matter how minor, may allow one to escape from existence into essence. Maybe your minor goal today should be to fap to some hentai and cum.

eg.

1) ?
2) ?
3) Fap and cum.

>> No.19093348

>>19093343
I read some of his works, it didnt fix anything

>> No.19093375

>>19089850
Brothers Karamazov will either make you an atheist or devout Christian.
If you just want the atheist pill then read Rebellion and/or Grand Inquisitor, but obviously reading the whole book is preferable.

>> No.19093475

>>19093375
>Brothers Karamazov will either make you an atheist or devout Christian
Could you explain why?

>> No.19093655

>>19093475
Despite being written by a very religious man, the book contains very strong atheistic arguments (primarily in the 2 chapters I mentioned).
Dosto did a great job at portraying both sides of the theism argument in TBK. Conversely, the chapters focused on Elder Zosima (which take place shortly after the 2 mentioned before) make a good argument for the opposite view.

>> No.19095107

Bump

>> No.19095179

>>19089850
dont read niethsdhaze

>> No.19096122

>>19095179
Why

>> No.19096154

>>19089850
Nietzsche wasnt an atheist, its just that there's only a small portion of people who ever understood what the fuck he was actually talking about.

>> No.19096182

>>19089850
you imply you have any belief to begin with
i might be a doxological cynic
but again why not apply my skepticism to men as well
no one today deserves the title of un-belief. We are eating our own image too much for any absolute vanity of that degree
only the annihilatory schools can make claims of such but then again if they where real the would cease to exist, only more proof of thier ever presence

>> No.19096269

>>19096182
>the annihilatory schools
Such as

>> No.19096853

>>19089943
It's true. All of it.

>> No.19096855

>>19096853
cringe and gulliblepilled

>> No.19096856

>>19096853
Based

>> No.19096878

>>19096154
>Nietzsche wasnt an atheist
Please substantiate that claim.

>> No.19097551

>>19096878
That guy is retarded, Nietzsche was an atheist, just not a "new atheist" faggot

>> No.19098845

>>19089932
>The gospels are plainly reconstructed long after the events happened and are bullshit, some passages appear to be word for word copied from the same source.
And?

>> No.19098893

>>19098845
And it's bullshit

>> No.19099938

Bump

>> No.19100116
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[ERROR]

>>19089850
Just start with Beyond Good and Evil by Nietzsche

>> No.19100128

>>19100116
Nietzsche himself says you shouldn't start with it iirc

>> No.19100258

>>19100128
What does he say you should start with?

>> No.19100269

>>19100128
You should, however

>> No.19100364

>>19100269
Why?

>> No.19100492
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>>19090565
>Things just are
It's pretty to think so.

>> No.19100523

>>19100364
Both comprehensive and clearly structured. You could follow it up with Genealogy, Twilight, Antichrist to have an extremely firm grasp on his thinking but BG&E is the best entry point. None of the early books are worth starting with, Ecce Homo requires having read the ouvre for proper context, Gay Science is not very structured, and Zarathustra does not explain itself

>> No.19101303

>>19089850
Nietzsche made me a christian.

>> No.19101348

>>19090580
People have been doing this shit since the dawn of time, it's really normal if you think about it.

>> No.19101526

The Bible

>> No.19101911

Atheist, as in
>Hurr durr religion bad
or as in
>There is truly nothing we can know

>> No.19101925

>>19089855
Also The Talmud

>> No.19102826

>>19101925
Isn't the Talmud more about law than religion?

>> No.19103069

>>19102826
No

>> No.19103158

The first substantial text in a natural science or mathematical type of undergrad.

If you continue to study your science of choice however you'll become a theist again.

>> No.19103172

>>19103158
Why?

>> No.19103300

>>19103172
Because of that meme pic floating around of famous scientists who don't outright deny the existence of the metaphysical

>> No.19103386

>>19101303
You got filtered

>> No.19104343

Bump for books

>> No.19104474

>>19089850
Start with "Some Mistakes of Moses" by Robert Ingersoll

>> No.19104738

Analytic philosophy

>> No.19105191

>>19089850
Read the history of the religions you grew up with, if it's Christianity then read a bit of that and ancient ebraism, you will see how these are just things that were made up by ancient people to explain their reality or shit like that.
More often than not they wanted to write down moral stuff as well, but having added "god said this to me" to the books made it pretty bad in general as it attracts the worst kinds of idiots.

>> No.19106004

>>19105191
What's a good book on the history of Christianity?

>> No.19108038

Theism explains the "why?" of everything that we observe. What we've observed is the evidence of purposeful behavior on many levels. When you look at the evidence in nature and science, you can see design, intelligence, forethought, purposefulness, and even "god-like" behavior. That means there is design and purpose in the universe.

>> No.19108045

>>19108038
>Theism explains the "why?" of everything that we observe.
"Because God" is the opposite of an explanation.

>> No.19108054

>>19108038
Seeing a design or purpose behind everything is paranoia. You should see a shrink you may have the beginnings of schizophrenia.

>> No.19108060

>>19089855
fpbp

>> No.19108164
File: 56 KB, 720x696, 1547656655413.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
[ERROR]

IM GOING INSANEEEEE AHHHHHHHHH

>> No.19109554

>>19108038
Retarded take