/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.19119883]

What books do I read to win word games against leftists? I fall behind solely on hard hitting sentences in arguments against them. I don't even know how their lines pack so much energy.

[Anonymous No.19119899]

>>19119883
Falseflagger. Kill yourself faggot OP.

[Anonymous No.19119901]

>>19119883
Leftists are right on most issues except immigration and race politics. You can't beat them.

[Anonymous No.19119913]

it's not leftists, it's just normies, and their arguments pack energy because everyone has the same set of opinions so they seem a million times more right. don't argue with people, not worth it, unless you really care about them and want to help them learn

[OP No.19119927]

>>19119883
I'm talking about the written form of argument btw

[Anonymous No.19119929]

>>19119913
Scared, Potter?

[Anonymous No.19119938]

>>19119883
Literally just learn to interrogate every sentence for the slightest logical error. It's surprisingly easy once you get into the habit.

[Anonymous No.19120002]

>>19119901
And crime and poverty.

[Anonymous No.19120020]

>>19119883
This means you don't need to read anything anon. It's only possible to understand leftism if you have brain damage, congratulations on your high IQ.

[Anonymous No.19120021]

>>19119901
does leftist economic policy even support open borders? i understand the concept of global workers or whatever but still i feel like unions should be against immigration

[Anonymous No.19120026]

The 48 laws or power and Seduction, both by Robert Greene.

Persuasion by Cialdini.

Learn NLP for dessert. Frogs into Princes by Bandler and Grinder then online study.

[Anonymous No.19120031]

>>19119883
Just punch them in the face fucking lmfao. Easiest way to win an argument.

[Anonymous No.19120034]

>>19119883
>win word games against leftists?
You can't
Otra pregunta

[Anonymous No.19120037]

>>19119883
just "insist upon yourself "

[Anonymous No.19120038]

>>19120020
kek
Literal cave dweller

[Anonymous No.19120053]

>>19120020
based and repilled
honest to god if I could actually 'debate' with a communist I'd probably go and kill myself because that means I'm retarded

[Anonymous No.19120056]

>>19120026
>The 48 laws or power and Seduction, both by Robert Greene
Neither of these are even remotely relevant

[Anonymous No.19120063]

>>19120053
kek
Imagine having this self-awareness level

[Anonymous No.19120071]

>>19120021
They were against immigration when they were socialist and not run by Jews with Princeton degrees in Gender Studies and pied pipers who run propaganda between average leftists and the DNC and its finance backers.

The point is to keep socialism as much of a pie in the sky, post-utopian, millenarian pipe dream as possible so that nothing ever happens and no concrete platforms or wedge issues can be used in a meaningful war of position with entrenched wealth. Habituate everyone to the "nothing ever happens" feeling of post-history, which dovetails suspiciously well with neocon ideology and neoliberal economics.

The one remaining things leftists can still remember caring about is "be nice," or put another way, "we're the party of the little guy, we're the heroes, we speak truth to power." But that is so meaningless and decontextualised now that it can be steered into anything, like pro-"sex work" (prostitution) which is a nakedly anti-leftist position and pro-immigration which is also a nakedly anti-leftist position (they used to call it importing scabs to bypass and dilute local labour solidarity).

In fact the left is so easily led through the nose by financial elites now that it's joined forces with corporate anti-borders policy and the corporatised university system, where rich elites go to learn how to cry crocodile tears over it. Corporations lobby what is left of the welfare state to reduce barriers to immigration, refugees and immigrants from nations destroyed by those corporations pour over the border, university-educated coastal elites lead gig economy twitter drones in "sympathising" with the immigrants, repeat until nothing is left of the world but deracinated and totally depressed labour.

[Anonymous No.19120072]

>>19119883
I have never lost to any argument to a leftist on /lit/ with the exception of the odd Bakunin/anarchism fan. My advice is to read up on their theories and the (amusingly sordid) history of what happens when such theories are implemented. Actually, I am planning on writing a book, a history and analysis of communist movements from a conservative perspective. I will hopefully publish it, but if no one is interested I'll go with the Gardner route.

[Anonymous No.19120087]

>>19119883
You want to win arguments? Study rhetoric.

[Anonymous No.19120088]

>>19120071
>They were against immigration when they were socialist and not run by Jews with Princeton degrees in Gender Studies
>posts a pic with a leftist jew
???

[Anonymous No.19120096]

>>19120072
>Actually, I am planning on writing a book, a history and analysis of communist movements from a conservative perspective
I can only imagine the originality

[Anonymous No.19120097]

>>19120063
>>19120038
kek
seething troon

[Anonymous No.19120104]

>>19120096
I am not a Bill O'Reilly type of guy, but most communists would consider me a conservative because of my opinions on land ownership (ownership of the means of production in general) and the like. Certainly I will give credit where credit is due.

[Anonymous No.19120120]

>>19120097
>t-tranny!
I wonder why that's the first thing that came to your mind...
>>19120104
No idea who Bill is

[Anonymous No.19120122]

>word games
Revisionists blowing air, rhetoric makes the enemy reveal himself.

[OP No.19120128]

>>19120072
It's not really specifically related to their politics, it's almost about everything. Dabble into some twitter threads or Facebook groups whereas predominantly leftists are present. In any sort of heated issue or discussion, they have a certain way with words that pack energy.

[OP No.19120134]

>>19120128
where*

[Anonymous No.19120139]

>>19119883
Start with contrapoints.

[Anonymous No.19120152]

>>19120071
based effort poster

[Anonymous No.19120154]

>>19120120
>No idea who Bill is
A former Fox news anchor who made a career out of writing history books from a Republican party

>>19120128
>they have a certain way with words that pack energy.
The difference is that they are for the most part more respectful and calm (e-tankies notwithstanding). I have noted that most right-wingers eventually end up soijaking you after a while, but leftists will keep coming back with counterarguments and the like. Plus, the ones who win arguments do read, while frankly most liberals and conservatives don't.

>>19120139
>YouTube
>alt-right domination
YouTube bans you if you support a position right of Mitch McConnell, what drugs was this writer on

[Anonymous No.19120170]

>>19120097
Serious question, why do they all look like this? I finished college, I have seen more than my fair share of so called 'socialists', I minored in literature for god's sake, why are they always weak weird little faggots? I always left politics heavy classes with the desire to drink a bottle of Purell they were so disgusting to look at and share a room with, like a zoo full of Thalidomide children all grown up and oozing slime everywhere.

[Anonymous No.19120177]

>>19120170
https://www.vice.com/en/article/j5e3z7/gym-bros-more-likely-to-be-right-wing-assholes-science-confirms
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2017/07/are-socialists-physically-weak/533787/
If you're capable of personal agency you're not left wing, it's basically that simple.
It's also why political powers that pretend to be left wing are all just doing it to fuck over the common man.

[Anonymous No.19120186]

>>19120170
I dunno about looks, but a shocking number of communists at college were literal landlords. Hell, I still keep up with one guy who can praise Marx in one sentence and then complain about rent control and eviction-ban laws in the next. Don't they realize communists hate them?

[Anonymous No.19120198]

>>19119883
It's just radical rhetoric, and if your interlocutor is worth anything, they've probably been totally schooled by someone else in their commie club so badly that they stormed out of the room fuming. Like, that's actually happened before to the guy you're trying to battle, so it toughens them up a bit. But I've found the best rhetoricians leave enough room at the end so you can save some face. Like they'll totally destroy you in front of other people but then, at the end, say that everything I just said to destroy you... you knew yesterday. Implication being that your "political error" right now is basically just a temporary fit of irrationality, which you might be experiencing right now.

I think this is a good example of left-wing / communist rhetoric:

https://youtu.be/vd8w3ONjv6Y

>>19120031
Go ahead. You're just a punching a man.

>>19120021
There's moralizing over history and endlessly arguing over positions on this or that, and then there's trusting theory enough to reason from it, about why and how we live in class society, and then struggling together.

[Anonymous No.19120212]

>>19120170
>why do they all look like this?
Not everywhere is am*rica
go out more
stop trusting the media

[Anonymous No.19120213]

>>19120071
Can you miserable faggots drop the act already, everyone with a working brain knows the anti-immigrant Right doesn't give a flying fuck about the working class. Just admit you only care about race/culture and drop the socialist larp already.

[Anonymous No.19120239]

>>19120177
>If you're capable of personal agency you're not left wing
kek

[Anonymous No.19120247]

>>19120071
Eugene Debs:

>Upon this vital proposition I would take my stand against the world and no specious argument of subtle and sophistical defenders of the civic federation unionism, who do not hesitate to sacrifice principle for numbers and jeopardise ultimate success for immediate gain, could move me to turn my back upon the oppressed, brutalized and despairing victims of the old world, who are lured to these shores by some faint glimmer of hope that here their crushing burdens may be lightened, and some star of promise rise in their darkened skies.

>The alleged advantages that would come to the Socialist movement because of such heartless exclusion would all be swept away a thousand times by the sacrifice of a cardinal principle of the international socialist movement, for well might the good faith of such a movement be questioned by intelligent workers if it placed itself upon record as barring its doors against the very races most in need of relief, and extinguishing their hope, and leaving them in dark despair at the very time their ears were first attuned to the international call and their hearts were beginning to throb responsive to the solidarity of the oppressed of all lands and all climes beneath the skies.

>In this attitude there is nothing of maudlin sentimentality, but simply a rigid adherence to the fundamental principles of the International proletarian movement. If Socialism, international, revolutionary Socialism, does not stand staunchly, unflinchingly, and uncompromisingly for the working class and for the exploited and oppressed masses of all lands, then it stands for none and its claim is a false pretense and its profession a delusion and a snare.

>Let those desert us who will because we refuse to shut the international door in the faces of their own brethren; we will be none the weaker but all the stronger for their going, for they evidently have no clear conception of the international solidarity, are wholly lacking in the revolutionary spirit, and have no proper place in the Socialist movement while they entertain such aristocratic notions of their own assumed superiority.

>Let us stand squarely on our revolutionary, working class principles and make our fight openly and uncompromisingly against all our enemies, adopting no cowardly tactics and holding out no false hopes, and our movement will then inspire the faith, arouse the spirit, and develop the fibre that will prevail against the world.

>Yours without compromise,

>Eugene V. Debs.

50,000 people turned out in Terra Haute, Indiana when he was released from prison. I know which side I'm on. No more bloodstained walls on the U.S. border. The proclaimed "free movement of capital and commodities" must also be applied to that which must be above all else: human beings. Or to quote Fidel Castro in Durban in 1998: "The persecution of immigrants must cease! Xenophobia must end, not solidarity!"

https://youtu.be/9q7ub4aMOFs

[Anonymous No.19120252]

>>19119883
>I don't even know how their lines pack so much energy.
Truth

[Anonymous No.19120258]

>>19119883
Read Nick Land Xenosystems

[Anonymous No.19120275]

>>19120071
Reagan is literally /myguy/. Without him Grandpa wouldn't have been able to get permanent residency and later citizenship here, and I wouldn't be here (or ever born, for that matter). I'll always support Reagan for this reason

[Anonymous No.19120278]

>>19120213
Thank god someone here hasn't fallen for the right's fake "populist" grift or "nazbol" memes.

We know how disingenuous the right is regarding vague "pro worker" attempts to appeal to the left. One just needs to look at how Hitler treated the Strasserists, SA, Rohm, and other pro socialist factions of the Nazis during the Night of the Long Knives.

Or how in the modern day they worship a New York billionaire who pushes austerity policies and is in bed with the same Republican assholes that looted the working class for years. All having a consistent bloodthirsty hatred for communists/socialists throughout, as can clearly be seen today with a mere glance of any right wing news site or forum.

[niloy No.19120323]

>>19120252
You had the same experience?

[Anonymous No.19120331]

>>19120213
it's their attempt at making themselves come off as more "reasonable" to left leaning people so they are more sympathetic and let their guard down once they start segueing into the anti immigrant alt right dogwhistles.

they will start out with a few surface level critiques of the rich or neoliberal ruling class, then once they feel the lefty is listening they will start steering it into anti semitic territory and having them focus their ire on jews or immigrants rather than capitalist behaviors. or they will start discussing how immigrants are responsible for conditions caused by capitalists and blame them. and so on.

if the naive lefty does not catch on and buys into their games, then the fascist will continue to avoid economic critiques or discussions of the mechanisms and underlying problems, and rather focus on scapegoating jews, immigrants, or discussing some sort of moral "degeneracy" instead of discussing the problem of capital. that is because economics are entirely secondary to their reactionary social beliefs. they will proudly engage in and support capitalism if it is within the context of their white supremacist, anti semitic, or theocratic desires. they are not bound by any strict theory or critiques against capital, rather their basis is more so nationalist/religious mythos and superstition along with rationalizing primal tribalist hatred of "the other"

[Anonymous No.19120359]

>>19119883
>I don't even know how their lines pack so much energy.
https://youtu.be/TVwKjGbz60k?t=274

[Anonymous No.19120381]

>>19120213
see >>19120071
you LITERALLY CANNOT be pro immigrant and for the working class, it's a complete contradiction, an oxymoron, and has been true for all of history until modern propaganda has created faggots like you

[Anonymous No.19120399]

>>19120331
>rather their basis is more so nationalist/religious mythos and superstition along with rationalizing primal tribalist hatred of "the other"
Damn the irony of this post is staggering, holykek.

[Anonymous No.19120406]

>>19120213
The right only cares about race because the left is obsessed with it (because it's useful for them).

[Anonymous No.19120439]

>>19120381
Immigrant workers are not part of the working class for nationalists only.
Not that Right wingers care about the working class, lmao.

[Anonymous No.19120441]

>>19119883
What you lack is critical information.

If you want to refute their points, watch them, write their points down, find the sources, and pick them apart one by one.

The easy shortcut way is to inherit better information/beliefs from better sources. Watch smarter youtubers etc.

[cringe normie1000 No.19120453]

>>19119883
weaponize them against them . note down their greatest speakers. listen to their speeches and read them . comb through them and pick out good looking words . memorize them . you will soon notice a pattern . it is as if being in the left is a hivemind of which they all are at stages of . recognize what they use and start predicting it . counter their arguements before they even take shape

[Anonymous No.19120454]

>>19120406
The RIght cares about race because they want a white America, but since they can't say that out loud they have to resort to muh Mexican rapists rhetoric

[Anonymous No.19120470]

>>19120247
this has empirically been a disaster, the middle class has virtually ceased to exist and the entire population has become lumpen, the only people left who know who debs is or to quote him are bourgeois elites at universities that train a million middle managers (organic intellectuals of capital) for every "leftist" they churn out

the left has lost all pragmatism, even marx changed his positions throughout his life to reflect political realities. "the point of philosophy is to adhere to strictly ideal notions that can be debated forever without anything actually happening, with little regard for actual experience or practical exigencies" is not what marx said.

[Anonymous No.19120482]

>>19120331
>when my opponent is being reasonable he's really just being "reasonable" and pretending to be reasonable, i'm the reasonable one, be a tranny with me for another century of dying labor organization trust me bro trust the plan

you don't have a monopoly on workers' rights, you have lost the mandate of heaven and spent three generations masturbating in the ivory tower. you have conceded every single critical position in a war you never had any intention of fighting. you are why marx repudiated "help" from the self-adulating, self-fellating bourgeoisie after 1848, you are why syndicalists radicalized and weaponized socialism to take it away from the kathedersozialisten.

[Anonymous No.19120494]

>>19119929
scared against trannies, faggots, snowflakes and their demented commander in chief? thats funny

[Anonymous No.19120783]

it's because they fester on reddit and twitter, where all of their replies are liked and supported by their leftist friends in the form of likes or upvotes, making it seem as if you're all alone against an army
notice how on 4chan "ACAB" can swiftly be responded to by a soijack and their entire strong-willed charade falls apart

[Anonymous No.19120839]

>>19120454
Meanwhile late night audience cheer for "there are fewer White people in america". A typical leftist is as racist as the typical /pol/ user, but I would argue it's even more pathological because their racism is self directed.

[Anonymous No.19121158]

>>19120247
>
>Upon this vital proposition I would take my stand against the world and no specious argument of subtle and sophistical defenders of the civic federation unionism, who do not hesitate to sacrifice principle for numbers and jeopardise ultimate success for immediate gain, could move me to turn my back upon the oppressed, brutalized and despairing victims of the old world, who are lured to these shores by some faint glimmer of hope that here their crushing burdens may be lightened, and some star of promise rise in their darkened skies.

athiest commie fuck trying to lowkey crib Christianity, many such cases

[Anonymous No.19121168]

>>19119883
You'll probably want to read German Ideology, Anti-Duhring and then Kolakowski's Main Currents. You should also write two different essays on why each text is correct and why each text is incorrect.

[Anonymous No.19121188]

>>19120839
I mean, it sounds like whites are just mentally ill. And before you give me the "Jews" defense, note that blacks have been under the supposed influence of Jews for just as long and in a more brutal way and they still don't hate their own race.

[Anonymous No.19121190]

>>19119883
Never, ever become emotional in an argument. Accept that there are emotionally driven people who will never be convinced by stern, masculine argumentation. Do not attempt to beat them at their own game of emotional manipulation, because they will always win; their entire position is built around it. Instead work for the truth and let those are who are disposed to it see the light.

[Anonymous No.19121253]

>>19120482
>you don't have a monopoly on workers' rights
could've fooled me when the right doesn't support them at all and undermines them at every opportunity

don't fall for their rhetoric. look how they govern.

[Anonymous No.19121628]

>>19119901
Viruses are right on most issues except immunity and recovery. You can't beat them.

[Anonymous No.19121659]

>>19120139
>bourgiepoints

[Anonymous No.19121797]

It was noted then that, for a long time now, there have been left-wing intellectuals and right-wing intellectuals. I would like to give you formulas for them that, however categorical they may appear at first sight, might nevertheless help to illuminate the way.
"Fool" (sot) or, if you like, "simpleton" (demeuré) - quite a nice term for which I have a certain fondness - these words only express approximately a certain something for which the English language and its literature seem to me to offer a more helpful signifier - I will come back to this later. A tradition that begins with Chaucer, but which reaches its full development in the theater of the Elizabethan period is, in effect, centered on the term "fool.”
The "fool" is an innocent, a simpleton, but truths issue from his mouth that are not simply tolerated but adopted, by virtue of the fact that this "fool" is sometimes clothed in the insignia of the jester. And in my view it is a similar happy shadow, a similar fundamental "foolery," that accounts for the importance of the left-wing intellectual.
And I contrast this with the designation for that which the same tradition furnishes a strictly contemporary term, a term that is used in conjunction with the former, namely, "knave" - if we have the time, I will show you the texts, which are numerous and unambiguous.
At a certain level of its usage "knave" may be translated into French as valet, but "knave" goes further. He's not a cynic with the element of heroism implied by that attitude. He is, to be precise, what Stendhal called an "unmitigated scoundrel." That is to say, no more than your Mr. Everyman, but your Mr. Everyman with greater strength of character.
Everyone knows that a certain way of presenting himself, which constitutes part of the ideology of the right-wing intellectual, is precisely to play the role of what he is in fact, namely, a "knave." In other words, he doesn't retreat from the consequences of what is called realism; that is, when required, he admits he's a crook.
This is only of interest if one considers things from the point of view of their result. After all, a crook is certainly worth a fool, at least for the entertainment he gives, if the result of gathering crooks into a herd did not inevitably lead to a collective foolery. That is what makes the politics of rightwing ideology so depressing.
But what is not sufficiently noted is that by a curious chiasma, the "foolery" which constitutes the individual style of the left-wing intellectual gives rise to a collective "knavery."

[Anonymous No.19121815]

>>19119883
what word games?

[Anonymous No.19121836]

>>19119883
Do not get caught in leftard word games. You simply call them the cuck pussy weakling they are and move on. Once you study enough you realize the canned lines of the right all you need but they're 100% true. Leftists have no will. Leftism always fails because it goes against human nature. This is fact. The only thing the Leftist wants to do is kill off all the great men because it's a reminder how weak and unaccomplished they really are.

[Anonymous No.19122612]

>>19120454
>everyone who disagrees with me is a Nazi
>no I'm no delusional
seemslegit

[Anonymous No.19122625]

>>19119883
A big part of it is that you need to be willing to step outside their moral framework and not allow it to have power over you.
>”you’re a racist!”
>”ok, I’m a racist.”
Frequently once they realize their insults don’t work on you, they’re not sure where to go next.
Post some specific arguments and we can help you analyze them.

[Anonymous No.19122639]

>>19119883
Feline Fellatio by Nick the Spic Fuentes
Dangerous Faggotry by Milo Yianoupoulous
Defending Israel by Bill O'Reilly
Defending Islam by Barack Obama
Importing Islam to Kill Leftists by George "For the Lulz" Soros

[Anonymous No.19122661]

>>19119883
"You're fired because bad speak!"
"Actually I read Rich Dad Poor Dad and income is not my main source of revenue. Goodbye. If you'll excuse me I'll be in my nationalist vacation home in the Middle East or Taiwan."

[Anonymous No.19122668]

>>19119883
D.A.P. by Ben Shapiro: a Memoir of Owning the Libs

[Anonymous No.19122691]

>>19120021
The proper socialist position should be to go past the liberal dichotomy and realize the only reason there are so many immigrants in the first place is because in their efforts to expand their markets, imperialist powers have displaced millions. A revolution at home would solve this issue, but Anerican and most Western proles are class cucked.

[Anonymous No.19122788]

>>19120783
kek, imagine not being anti police
>>19120839
>A typical leftist is as racist as the typical /pol/ user, but I would argue it's even more pathological because their racism is self directed.
Never happened, white privilege doesn't exist, I'm on the far left
>>19121190
Kek
>>19121836
>Leftism always fails because it goes against human nature. This is fact. The only thing the Leftist wants to do is kill off all the great men because it's a reminder how weak and unaccomplished they really are.
lmao