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/lit/ - Literature


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19144957 No.19144957 [Reply] [Original]

I'll start, with pic related

>> No.19144959

>>19144957
AHR 93:4 1988

>> No.19144985
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19144985

>>19144957

>> No.19145002

>>19144957
if i tell you, i won't have a claim over it. so I, won't. tell you, that is. sorry! hahaha

>> No.19145006

>>19144959
Oh shit the world-systems theory debate issue. nice.

>> No.19145047
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19145047

>>19144957

>> No.19145641
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19145641

>>19144957
Sorry, anon, but I've even read her Diary. There's at two of us, I'm afraid

>> No.19145648

my diary desu

>> No.19145673
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19145673

>>19144957
It's a shame really because it's a great book. Perfect for the Fall.

>> No.19146079
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>> No.19146110

>>19144957
I'm actually reading this right now I'm a complete autist for long-winded, gossipy 18th century romance, especially of it's epistolary - Richardson was peak lockdown pleasure

>> No.19146224

>>19146110
/lit/ has yet to realize that it was Clarissa all along..

>> No.19147694

>>19145641
>>19146110
Good to see, anons.
What other C18 English novels do you like? I just finished Humphry Clinker - not a patch on Clarissa or Tristram Shandy, but quite enjoyable.

>> No.19147706

I haven't read any of the other books in this thread. I might try the Barth one.

>> No.19147721
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19147721

The best book that only I have read. Published quite recently

>> No.19147760
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19147760

Definitely a strange book. Fun read though.

>> No.19147768
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19147768

it was extremely comfy. jamaican novel

>> No.19148893
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19148893

>>19147694
>not a patch
brings Hogarth and the vogue for patches to mind!
Let's see: I've also read Evelina; ca. 5 Defoes (just got Jonathan Wild, yet to read; favorite's probably Plague Year of the ones I have); 3 Fieldings (Andrews over Jones); Radcliffe's Udolpho; I probably rate Clinker a little higher than you, but that's the only TS I've read; all of Austen (Persuasion>Abbey, which felt unfinished but still..); 'Monk' Lewis; Cleland's Fanny Hill (which is straight up pornography, perhaps the best ever penned); Goldsmith's Vicar; etc.

>> No.19148915
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19148915

i mean, im sure people have read it, but not many because its insanely long. took me a whole year.

>> No.19149025

>>19144957
>>19145641
Are her books/diary good?

>> No.19149353

>>19149025
Other anon will have to tell you about the other books and the diaries, but Camilla is great. Closer to Austen than to the earlier novels of sentiment.

>> No.19149549

>>19148893
Nice list, anon. I have read most of this, though not as much Fielding and a different Radcliffe. Not a fan of the latter, though I can see her significance.
I'd forgotten about Fanny - thanks! Have had this book for ages but not yet read it.
I was thinking of reading Edgeworth's Belinda, since it's another novel cited with approval by an Austen character, though this takes us into the C19.

>> No.19150103

>>19149549
Austen herself is of course C19, or that reference couldn't be made. Weird that she bridges that tiny gap between the outbreak of the first and second wave of major English Romantic poets! Even Byron is to some extent lodged in the18C together with her (Swift comes to mind) at least in terms of concern and manner, along with Edgeworth. Of the lattermost I've only read Rackrent, although it's been awhile. So..
Dickens, Thackeray, Eliot, or Hardy? Which of these four C19's do you most enjoy?

>> No.19150824

>>19148915
Worth it? Were you consistently entertained?

>> No.19150835
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19150835

>> No.19150872
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19150872

>> No.19151482

>>19150103
Yes, I agree that Austen belongs more to the C18 than C19, basically closing off that era in the English novel. I've never thought of it before, but now you mention it her work does seem almost oblivious to high romanticism, except for the gothic strand. It's also weird to think that she was as recent for Joyce as Joyce is for us - they are truly worlds apart.
Of the four C19 novelists you mention, for me it goes Dickens = Eliot > Hardy >>> Thackeray. I would put Trollope somewhere in the second half of that hierarchy, and the best of the Brontes ahead of Trollope. Conrad goes ahead of them all, even in his pre-C20 work, but he's completely modern to me, and has little in common with those others.
So, into C20: Conrad, Forster, Joyce or Lawrence?

>> No.19151486

>>19150835
Interesting, will have a look into this.

>> No.19151489

>>19149353
Nice, i'll pick it up.

>> No.19152395

>>19151482
Glad you r8 Dickens as high as you do because there's perhaps no less understood writer on this board; for me it's Dickens over Eliot primarily because Eliot's too artistically spare and proto psychological (modern) I do however recognize that Hardy's her pretty son, i.e. has very little to do with Dickens (although quite alot to do with Faulkner!). Nonetheless your rating's about right, so no issue taken.
It's a temptation to go full on autistic and make a claim for Anthony Powell so far as the 20th c. is concerned, or even Wolfe or Greene, but I guess I'll roll with Joyce, despite his relatively meager production. Lawrence rubs me wrong, Conrad's uneven, and Forster I consistently confuse with Ford fwr (Howard's End, Parade's End, The Good Soldier, Passage to India, The March of Literature...all a little confusing). That said I've read quite a bit of Conrad so I must like him although Nostromo was a disappointment.

>> No.19152424
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19152424

>>19144957
Not so fast nigger-kike.

>> No.19152534

Here are the books I have read this year that I suspect very few people here have read too:
>Bobin - The Very Lowly: A Meditation on Francis of Assisi
>Bonnefoy - L’improbable et autres essais
>Bousquet - Papillon de neige
>Cabantous - De Charybde en Scylla
>Groupe μ - Rhétorique de la poésie
>Kraus - The Third Walpurgis Night
>de Saussure - First ascents of the Mont Blanc
>Anonymous - Roman de Fauvel
>Roussel - New Impressions of Africa
>VA - Erotic Fabliaux

>>19146079
based beyond measure, one of my favourite book

>> No.19153279
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19153279

>> No.19153503
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>> No.19154273
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19154273

>>19152534
Nice, I've read the Raymond R

>> No.19154305

>>19152424
How is McTeague? It’s caught my eye a few times but I always find something else to read

>> No.19154397

>>19154305
Dif anon
A little rigid; kind of between Dreiser and (Upton) Sinclair, but briefer. About a dude who practices dentistry without a licence in the early days of SanFrancisco, etc. The Octopus is more interesting

>> No.19154466

>>19146079
>>19152534
do you have to read Tristan Shandy beforehand? i love experimental weird lit but dont want to miss anything in it

>> No.19154806
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19154806

>>19154466
For Jarry it's probably most important that you know something about his life, and what it birthed. Pic rel's good.

>> No.19155255

>>19144957
some book about Katanga.

>> No.19155289

>>19149025
The diaries (what remains of them, and I've got an old Everyman, which is itself an edited edition) are wonderful. Just a bright glimpse into times radically different than 'these' from the perspective of a highly cultured young woman growing up in Johnsonian England and reaching maturity right at the onset of Napoleonic Europe (she marries a French aristocrat). Never a dull moment.

>> No.19155439
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19155439

I have never met anyone that has read this Russian absurdist. I also actively recommend agaisnt reading it.

>> No.19155580

this is the best thread we've had in ages

>> No.19155589 [DELETED] 

>>19155439
that used to get spammed on here all the time back in the day. looked like one of those obnoxious books about a struggling writer that struggling writers like to consume so i skipped it

>> No.19155615

>>19155589
yeah i feel like that sort of stuff probably hit a lot harder back in the day when society was straighter in every way but today pretty much everything is goofy and irreverent

>> No.19155708

>>19150835
i have a crumbling book of his poems

>> No.19155741
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19155741

>>19144957
this bitch took me 5 months to finish.

a lot of terminology, referencing and French in it.
still good. 10/10

>> No.19155777

>>19147721
bought it. sounds like a good primer for the metamodernism tsunami western culture is about to be hit with.

>> No.19155828

>>19155777
sounds scary

>> No.19155852

>>19155708
I have a dilapidated Death's Jest Book; if I can find it I'll post

>> No.19155863
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>> No.19155949

>>19146079
>>19154806
Nice one, anon, I'll check both of these out.

>> No.19155953

>>19155580
That's the blessing we receive when we invoke the eighteenth-century genteel muse

>> No.19155959

>>19155741
gr8 b8 m8
the one book everyone has read (except me)

>> No.19156053

>>19155959
>the one book everyone has read (except me)

well champ, now's your time to read it

>> No.19156067

>>19152395
I also far prefer Dickens to Eliot, though that's because of his superior humour and language, rather than any distaste for her psychological turn. But as you suggest, she still has to stand with Dickens (albeit standing back-to-back, he facing to the past and she to the future), because of her influence.
I think we'd be BFFs in a C18-19 book club, anon, but it looks as though we would part ways when we got to C20. I've never read any Powell, though would not group him with the eC20 authors, chronologically. Wolfe (Thomas?) is also a different proposition entirely, though maybe a typo for Woolf, who is great but does not hold a candle to Joyce. Honestly I can't make sense of the 'meager' comment - for me, Ulysses and FW together outweigh all other 1900-1950 English-language novels combined.
I'm with you on Lawrence - horrid overwrought stuff that only seems modern because of the sex.
Greene makes for nice holiday reading, but I've never read anything that requires rereading.
Forster hasn't aged very well, except for Passage to India - I've never read any Ford Madox Hueffer (except for his collaborations with Conrad).
I've heard Conrad falls off in his later work, but I've read everything up to Under Western Eyes and all of that, to me, is sublime, for the perspectivism, irony, and deceptive language. Nostromo is full of these elements, so I love it too - but from your post it seems that you're not so keen on modernism, so I can see why Nostromo would not appeal.
For me, then, it's Joyce > Conrad > Forster >>> Lawrence
Everything falls apart from 1950-2000, so I'll leave it to you to propose the key players for r8ing

>> No.19156073

>>19156053
Yep it's on the list for this year or next year. Am filling in gaps from the eighteenth century onwards (hence Camilla post), so will get to W&P soon.

>> No.19156167
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19156167

H.G Wells Time Machine

>> No.19156192

>>19155741
>>19156167
Is this the same poster? These are two of the most read novels in history.

>> No.19156211

>>19156192
Nah, different one.
I just feels like nobody ever talked about Time Machine.
Its the basis for the whole time machine trope, but i never seen anyone talking about it.

>> No.19156232

>>19156211
OK, well I've read it, let's talk about it.
I reckon it's top 3 Wells - it's a genuine page-turner, it birthed a whole subgenre, as you say), and the crab creatures at the end are surprisingly horrifying. They have remained with me, anyway.

>> No.19156272

>>19156232
The ending is great. Wells description is very vivid, feels i could see what the time traveler saw.

>> No.19156288
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19156288

You could say I like BBC

>> No.19156307
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19156307

He's better known for things like translating Flaubert's letters so I doubt anyone here will even know he wrote fiction. He was also married to a moderately well known Australian author, meaning he knew a few prominent Australian literary figures. The book isn't great, though.

>> No.19156325
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19156325

>> No.19156329

>>19156167
It's a cool science fiction book but the political commentary is a bit too on the nose.

>> No.19156471

>>19156192
different one. and newfag
the thread said nothing about rare books only.
i haven't seen anyone on /lit/ talk about W&P yet.

>> No.19156472

>>19152424
Owning books that sit on your shelf isn't the same as reading them.

>> No.19156548
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19156548

It isn't that good.

>> No.19156566
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19156566

>>19156471
I'd say that "books only you have read" does imply some degree of obscurity, anon, but you can post whatever you like - this thread is all love.

>> No.19156580
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19156580

kek

>> No.19156603
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19156603

They made a movie about Rokeach starring Richard Gere and Peter Dinklage and this book came back into print after 50+ years. Maybe more people have read it now?

>> No.19156634

>>19156603
Qrd?

>> No.19156690

>>19150835
hey blake

>> No.19156806
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19156806

>>19156634
>Rokeach argues that the change from studying right-wing authoritarianism in the 40’s to left-wing authoritarianism in the 50’s can be explained in terms of the fascist and Communist threats during the respective periods. He maintains that the time has now come to broaden the approach and to ask whether it is not possible to distinguish between “open” and “closed” minds irrespective of particular ideologies. Rokeach urges that we differentiate sharply between the structure of ideological systems and their content: an individual, for example, may accept all the traditional pieties of liberal belief and yet hold them in a dogmatic way; or, again, some belief systems, undogmatic in content but authoritarian in structure, may advocate tolerance in an intolerant way. Rokeach further argues that while we know a great deal about ethnic intolerances, we know comparatively little about intolerance among Freudians, Unitarians, liberals, literary critics, or professors of psychology.


Here's the contemporary review that the above quote is from: https://www.commentary.org/articles/lewis-coser/the-open-and-closed-mind-by-milton-rokeach/

>> No.19157008
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19157008

About the Russian Revolution. I think it's only translated in Dutch, can't find it in English.

Was very gripping though.

>> No.19157470

>>19156806
Thanks, looks pretty interesting. Hard to imagine a Richard Gere movie about this shit though

>> No.19157477

>>19147694
>C18 English
I don't really like them since they are just heavy drinking degenerates who attend every football match in their area. But they could make good foot soldiers in the RaHoWa.

>> No.19157529

>>19156472
first 2 from the left look read to me

>> No.19157556
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19157556

>>19157477
Damn bros, we were doing so well till the ideologue crashed the party

>> No.19157766
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19157766

>> No.19158161

>>19156067
>he to the past, she to the future
This isn't true in a major way, especially when one considers that what Dickens : Joyce :: Eliot : Henry James. Dickens's novels are constructed via omniscient 'chat' from the flotsam and jetsam of literature, linguistics, history, dead and living fashion, industry, religion, fairy tale, myth, everything, if burdened with aims primarily 'social' (and who has been more influential in this regard? Answer: no one). His knowledge of London is every bit as sure as 'Joyce his Dublin' and his cast of characters subsequently far more broad (if only slightly less intimate). Essentially what Joyce did was to *assume* Dickens's 'chat' as a method for 'objective' novel building; what the D narrator 'knew' *to make* the J technician 'used' *to build*. Were Joyce's aims at all social? Ultimately, no, they were personal: a kind of justifying the ways of Joyce to man in a manner so fabulous that less knowledgeable or 'knowing' 'takes' were and still are bound to get sucked in; e.g. the Ireland that Joyce ironically rejected! Though there is in fact a D-Day it doesn't relate to Dickens; OTOH Bloomsday isn't Christmas.
Wow. I'm almost feeling as if literature is somehow important! Perhaps it ceases to be once people cease to be..
Nostromo's an interesting novel, a colorful novel, even a somewhat fun novel, but hollow at the core. Is this hollowness what allows notions like 'modernism' to ring true?
Let's see, what to r8? (I take no issue with your previous r8ing btw, and was glad to witness Dickens's sudden elevation in your esteem). Why not great English Men of Letters?
Johnson, Coleridge, Chesterton, Auden
Of whom are you most fond?
>in b4 Hazlitt

>> No.19158171

>>19157766
I have an old edition with Emily's poems included; the juvenilia's wonderful

>> No.19158325

>>19157470
The movie is about an experiment he did where he took 3 paranoid schizophrenics who each believed they're Jesus and put them in group therapy with one another (I haven't read that study though and the trailer for the film version looks less like a docudrama and more like a cheesy heavily fictionalized drama)..

>> No.19158333
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19158333

>> No.19158391

>John Gaule - Sermon on Witches
>https://www.gutenberg.org/files/37750/37750-h/37750-h.htm
I don't know how many people read that book but I assume everybody has seen the illustrations

>> No.19158451

>>19157529
Actually I bought those two in asale, they were in boxes and people probably touched a thousand times, that's why they look like that. I read Camilla, didn't read Mcteague, I read the Diderot books and never touched Otranto (It's used, I already had a hardcover copy, that I read a few years ago, but I bought this Oxford edition because it was cheap).

>> No.19158868

That Hideous Strength (first edition)

>> No.19158874
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19158874

>>19158333
i've read this. it was good
i even made one of these thingies for it back when that was a thing

>> No.19159225

>>19146079
Alfred Janny

>> No.19159248

>>19158874
>>19158333

Have also read this. For some reason reminded me a lot of Tom Hank's The Terminal because they said his country no longer existed after getting to the airport which is kind of similar to what happens to Budai I guess

>> No.19159256

>>19144957
Three Essays on the Theory of Sexuality by Freud

>> No.19159260
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19159260

>>19144957

>> No.19159273
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19159273

>>19144957

>> No.19159420
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>> No.19160114
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>> No.19160530

>>19156073
You'll love it, OP

>> No.19160576
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19160576

Riddley Walker

>> No.19160612

>>19155439
i've read him, but not that book. i thought it was shit.

>> No.19160617
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19160617

i think i'm the only one on /lit/ that has read it. it's very good.

>> No.19160618

>>19155439
he used to get memed here almost constantly a few years ago

>> No.19160624

>>19144957
homeless childless nigger = you

>> No.19160626
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19160626

>>19144957

>> No.19160661

>>19148915
My dad read it. Loved it

>> No.19160686
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>> No.19160889

>>19147768
I've seen the movie, didn't know there was a novel

>> No.19161141

>>19144957
>The Escape of Mr. Trimm: His Plight and other Plights by Irvin s. Cobbs

A collection of short stories. Each story varies from genre to genre but mostly their dramas. My favorite stories from this is fishhead and the escape of Mr. Trimm. Fishhead is a great horror story set in the murky swamps of the south, it also inspired H.P. Lovecraft to write the shadow over innsmouth. Mr Trimm is also excellent, the whole thing is a shaggy dog story disguised it self as a thriller. It’s strange how the author, Irvin Cobbs, was once a famous author but only a few know him now.

> The Adventures of Jonathan Corncob, Loyal American Refugee by anonymous

One of my favorite books. It’s about this guy Jonathan Corncob telling his early life during the American revolution. It deals with accidental pregnancy, naval warfare, slavery in the Caribbean, obscure biblical names, getting your hair pulled off by a hurricane, ghost chickens, switching sides and feather and tarring a man. It also has George Washington in the mix.

The novel was made just after the war of independence and fiercely criticized as more offensive then Tobias Smollet (he was very offensive) though it isn’t very edgy to today’s society, it can cross the line at times. It’s very critical of American which is why it never published in there.

>> No.19161173
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19161173

>>19144957
Also read his Nightlife of the Gods over the Summer as well

>> No.19161228
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19161228

As well as the sequel 'After The Night.' The first can be found as an ebook on Everyone Agrees' old website through wayback machine, the second is easily found in print, though reading Michele Bernstein's The Night (or at least having an idea of Bernstein, her novels, and the situationist international) is really helpful to read before it.
The books focus on the daily lives and relationships of pretentious hipsters. Imagine 'Normal People,' but relatively interesting.

>> No.19161298

>>19158868
I've read the first two (quite awhile ago) as well but now I'm wondering: were changes made after the first edition?

>> No.19161575

>>19155580
Second. Just read it through

>> No.19162203

>>19159256
Lol no lots of people have read this, myself included

>> No.19162273

Actually you raise a good point about Dickens and the city: that clearly signals his modernity, and is a direct influence on Joyce (as the latter admitted). I agree too with the polyphony in the narrative voice too (that's what I meant by language). It's in character and plot that I think he faces mostly backwards - both have more in common with Smollett and Fielding than Eliot, James, or Joyce, though I admit too that beneath even Joyce's most realistic characters are stock or comic bases. But these are mere quibbles - in sum, we are both Dickensians, a rare thing on these boards.
I think hollowness is as good a description as any for modernism, but that doesn't mitigate ita importance for me.
Men of letters. Surely Coleridge gets the laurel. Johnson was a singular character, Chesterton tolerably droll, but neither are essential to the tradition. Auden I admit I'm unqualified to judge outside of his poetry. But Coleridge is unparalleled in his insights and his influence. He played a large part in introducing German idealism to English thought, changed the way in which we read Shakespeare, and was fundamental to English romanticism. The handful of serious poems he wrote are also among the best in the language.
Hit me.

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It's alright.

>> No.19162868
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>>19144957
Possibly this because I've never seen it discussed. I've only met one person who claimed to have read it but on closer examination he'd started it, skimmed a bit, then abandoned it.

On the other hand this is a book that /lit/ would easily be all over

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>>19144957

>> No.19162915

>>19162868
Very good book. Genuinely disturbing.

>> No.19163399
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>Hit me
In the way of cards, blows,..?
There was an Oulipo thread up yesterday that I considered addressing but refrained as it rapidly became mean-spirited.. fwiw. In your thread I bumped with the Thorne Smith but also suggested the Jarry biography.. fwtwaw.
Nice thread (which has run its course) you answered well in your final take if with a little more (studied?) reserve than previously.. After Edel's Henry James Richard Holmes' Coleridge is by far my (second) favorite 20th/21rst c bio of a literary character who wrote in English; though long, a page-turner, and wonderfully informative: so there's a rec, but you've probably read it!
Biographia's one of my favorite 'pieces of literature' for many reasons, none of which I'll go into as you've already listed (very generally) three. I'm also fond of The Friend, and read through his complete poetry just last Summer (it took what? two days? there's so little of it!)
So far as 'helpfulness' is concerned then Auden was my man when growing up although The Dyer's Hand felt a little bland upon reread not too long ago; weird that of the four he's by far the most successful poet; I prefer the longer poems.
Johnson and Chesterton are great in their ways but the strong association of C of E on the one hand, RC on the other hurt them, I think, although Lives of the Poets and 'Chesterton on Dickens' are unparalleled reading. Favorite Chesterton novel? Napoleon > Thursday (not a popular choice). ...I'll conclude with the notice that though Johnson's no Addison *Rasselas* is nonetheless a gem. Take care, anon

>> No.19163453
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19163453

You mean on this board right?

>> No.19163573

>>19163399
did you read all five volumes of the edel HJ or the abridged version

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>>19163573
You know James encountered Dickens once, in an American drawing-room by candlelight: they said nothing to one another.

>> No.19164633

>>19147760
got a pdf?

>> No.19164701
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hilariously bad book, I reccomend every archetype of /lit/ read it if they want some fucking horrible deluded attempts at philosophy to laugh at

>> No.19165510
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>>19144957
Bao Ninh - The Sorrow of War (1990)

Story of a North Vietnamese soldier who spent 9 years infiltrating the South. Starts after the war as he searches for bodies across the battlefields of his past. All his friends get killed, his girlfriend gets raped (in the North), and his life is bitter and barren.

Initially banned in Vietnam until 2006. Received critical acclaim in the West.

This is an unromantic view of war. His descriptions of drug-taking and desertion by his comrades lead to the ban as it was not the image of soldiers the Communist Party wanted to be shown. This is a good read for anyone who wishes to see the experience of "the other side" in a non-ideological way.

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>> No.19166056

interesting collection here. i might even read a couple

>> No.19167404

>>19150824
Yea dude its a great book that really gives you some insight into human behavior and a good historical perspective. It was a true biography, felt like I lived a died with the man. I will honestly probably read it again one day.

>> No.19167675

>>19165510
Sorry, anon, I've read it. I don't remember anything about it except that I quite enjoyed it.

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Mainly because I can't really see many 4chan users having the patience to sit through 600 pages of what feels a lot like unironic Jewish propaganda. It was fun, but it was also extremely biased.

>> No.19169029

bump

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>> No.19169208

>>19163453
not so fast, edgeboy. read it long ago.

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supposedly true story about a kid that gets kidnapped by an ayahuasca tribe

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>>19144957

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>> No.19169465

>>19169449
Qrd? Have read Tarr, an essay compilation, and the Toronto novel.

>> No.19169469

>>19144957
Hermit of Peking by Hugh Trevor-Roper

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>> No.19169488

Insane stuff. First half is a depiction of the afterworld where men aimlessly wander about, waiting for their entrance into the Magnetic City. Second half is a sort of platonician Punch and Judy agora contest between a buffoon didactor who judges who's in who's out and greek-inspired fag chads arguing about God and revolution.
Haven't read the two subsequent volumes but I hear they're impressive though different.

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>>19169488
Kek. Sold! What an eye

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Currently reading this.

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>>19169588
Reminded me that I had read this

>> No.19169858

>>19159260
Dei Delitti e delle Pene? I mean, it's a classic.

>> No.19169864

>>19162868
I've seen this mentioned multiple times here

>> No.19170592

>>19169501
Routledge covers are absolutely soulless. I published with them and they literally give you a set of 40 templates to choose from.

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>> No.19170817

>>19169815
How is this? I read Gjennom Natten which I liked

>> No.19170847

>>19170817
Try-hard. It's told in second person and backwards. Can't say I remember much. I read it years ago and I'm not Norwegian.

>> No.19170892

>>19144957
is this the vampire novella? if so i have read it and it's pretty good.

>> No.19170998

>>19170892
>vampire novella
No, that's Carmilla and the author is Le Fanu