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/lit/ - Literature


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19214212 No.19214212 [Reply] [Original]

Why does /lit/ hate Harry Potter so?

>> No.19214218

derivative, bad worldbuilding, characters have no personalities, thinly veiled and clumsy political metaphors, mary sue protagonist

there's a reason it was rejected so many times

>> No.19214221

Children's / YA series with a delusional fanbase

>> No.19214222

>>19214212
Usually it's younger people that just got into reading seriously as a hobby and they need to lash out on what they enjoyed as a child. The older you get though the less you care about that. I can admit something wasn't good but I still enjoyed it when I was younger now.

>> No.19214230

I like harry potter it's a fun YA story
Sure it's retarded, characters are bad, worldbuilding is bad, the points are bad, but it's fun

>> No.19214247

the real (unconscious) answer is that harry potter is propaganda. It is therefore hated by those who unconsciously sense it opposes their ideology (the sovereign nationalist right wing) and hated by those who promote new, more efficient models - an historic necessity (liberal left)

this is the problem of all propaganda and the cruel fate of propagandists, they ought to be violently replaced after rendering themselves obsolete, as is the case with rowling and the recent hate she got from the lgbtq community even though she's a turbo bourgeois supporting liberal democracy.

>L'imposture de la satisfaction doit se dénoncer d'elle même, en suivant le changement des produits et celui des conditions générale de la production. Ce qui affirmait avec la plus parfaite impudence son excellence définitive change pourtant [...] et c'est le système seul qui doit continuer. Staline comme la marchandise démodé est dénoncé par ceux-là même qui les ont imposé. Chaque nouveau mensonge de la publicité est aussi l'aveu de son mensonge précédent.

>> No.19214292
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19214292

>>19214212
Because the fan base for the books is very cringe and try to connect real world politics to children’s books.

>> No.19214306

>>19214212
Fan base is mostly women and fags
On the bright side trannies hate her

>> No.19214308
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19214308

>>19214212

>> No.19214346

denial because everybody but me was reading HP
anger against HP because plebs
bargaining whether HP good
depression tfw spending child/young adulthood without valuable insights into what society is w/o HP
After all comes acceptance that however you still done reading HP.

>> No.19214357

The issue isn't with the books, but rather with the retards that refuse to grow up and use it as an allegorical reference-guide to real life.

>> No.19214373

>>19214308
it's true. but when i say this i'm called hipster faggot

>> No.19214405

>>19214308
Where from?

>> No.19214798

>>19214405
schopenhauer

>> No.19214803

>>19214373
I read Warhammer novels and adventure novels, but I know they arent high literature. Harry Potter fans dont understand the distinction. See also: Ayn Rand devotees and L Ron Hubbard cultists.

>> No.19214851

>>19214247
meds

>> No.19214854

>>19214212
I wasted years with reading what amounts to ya, but I've still found the books to be too boring to bother with. I could barely even stand some of the movies I watched. I don't even dislike fantasy ya, hp is just annoyingly boring. The kind of book you were told to read as a kid and always hated.

>> No.19214869

>>19214212
Because Voldemort is a shit villain. I stopped reading after book 5 because I just couldn't take him seriously at all.

>> No.19214879

>>19214222
>and they need to lash out on what they enjoyed as a child.
??? I have never seen this, ever? Readers who started as children will fist-fight people who make fun of their favorite childhood books.
Harry Potter is just an obnoxious IP. It's Star Wars for women.

>> No.19214918

>>19214879
>Readers who started as children
When did you learn to read?

>> No.19214926

>>19214918
readers as in "people who regularly read for enjoyment", you drip

>> No.19214940

>>19214212
I like it. It is pro gun rights and anti government.

>> No.19214947

>>19214879
My favorite childhood book is Tex by SE Hinton and it still holds up. I wrote a movie adaptation as a screenwriting exercise.

>> No.19214956

>>19214947
there are some pretty amazing children's books out there. I'm not ashamed to still read some of them.

>> No.19214966

>>19214308
>that prose
How was he so good? It's not fair to the rest of us

>> No.19214973

Harry potter as a cultural phenomenon has been dead for a decade. Idk why we must keep beating its rotten corpse.

>> No.19214991

>>19214973
The merchandise is still selling.

>> No.19215022

>>19214991
Not a metric for cultural relevancy. Look up the queues people made for the last installment of the book, all the buzz and excitement HP can't move people like that anymore, it's a relic.

>> No.19215107

>>19214869
Kek, it was kind of a miss to name your big bad something that goofy sounding and then have the series take a darker “serious” turn.
Imagine an adult saying “Oh god… oh no he’s coming… it’s… VOLDEMORT”

>> No.19215120

>>19214308
>tumblr

>> No.19215127

>>19214798
i somehow guessed. probably because of its arrogance
reminder this guy thought hegel was a hack

>> No.19215201

>>19215022
Children have been stuck at home over memesneeze and forced to wear face diapers for the last two years. What do they even do anymore as a generation of autisim and faceblindness caused by this regime? I'm a 28 yo boomer so far removed from children that all I know about is my severely autistic and socially stunted nephews and all they do is play switch and screech in between ticks and eating processed freezer food. What even is the new 10 year olds pokemon or harry potter or lotr or crazybones or whatever product or ip they swoon over? Especially now that cable tv is dead on top of school being fucked over.

>> No.19215219

>>19215127
>reminder this guy thought hegel was a hack
He was, based Schoppy

>> No.19215251

>>19215219
literally only schopenhauet fans think this, which i find telling. even analytics are mostly ok with hegel these days

>> No.19215257

>>19215251
>schopenhauet
*schopenhauer

>> No.19215263

>>19215251
Hegel is a faggot collectivist

>> No.19215297

>>19215251
No-one outside of continental philosophy departments takes Hegel seriously and even then not really

>>19215263
>collectivist
retard

>> No.19215310

>>19214966
He sucks and you're a faggot for liking some guy who wrote four sentences what could be said in one.

>> No.19215326
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19215326

>reading Harry faggot Potter
Ishiggy diggy. I SERIOUSLY SHIGGY DIGGY.

I SERIOUSLY HOPE YOU GUYS DONT DO THIS!!!!!! FUCJING FAGGOT OP KYS ASAP FAMALAM DESU CHING CHONG DING DONG

>> No.19215340

>>19215297
Correct. His entire view is that humans are formed by others as well as apologies for statism. He is a faggot.

>> No.19215442

>>19214212
>Why does /lit/ hate Harry Potter so?
There's a bunch of trannies on 4shit these days

>> No.19215454
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19215454

it's cringe

>> No.19215463

>>19215340
>humans are formed by others
they are, good luck becoming a full person in isolation
> statism
im not confident you even know what this means besides 'state bad'

>> No.19215464
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19215464

>>19214308
How can one man be so incredibly based?

>> No.19215467

>>19214218
so basically Nabokov?

>> No.19215471

>>19215463
Sorry friend but humans are formed by god.

>> No.19215481

>>19214212
*stretches legs*

>> No.19215502

>>19214308
Schopenhauer is irrefutably based

>> No.19215757

>>19215201
Drop the 2021 memespeak. HP wasn't just selling to kids. It was the kind of "for everyone / for the whole family" cultural phenomenon that we don't have nowadays. The Internet has atomized culture, and now there is a multitude of hyperreal online subcultures, all living in (mostly) ignorance of other similar subcultures. Microcelebrities as far as the eye can see.

>> No.19215992

>>19214212
for me it's that there are a lot of potholes and under explaining how spells and their ruleset work. it feels sometimes that they can solve a "problem" by using a spell from another book, but sometimes they completely forget it.

in example: the time reversing trinket Hermione gets in book 3, it somehow disappears thereafter while it would have been useful for more than just taking classes twice.

that shit really sucks, but kids don't mind, that is why it's a very good kids book.

>> No.19216013

>>19215992
I like how by age 11 they teach them to petrify each other then erase memories while running around invisible. Talk about rape fantasies.

>> No.19216045

Levels of Harry Potter insight:

>Just a fun kids story lol
>actually its a touching story about an abused child who goes on a magical adventure and learns important life lessons
>actually its a story that is a love letter to Britishness whilst also borrowing from folklore to give what is essentially a silly story with a greater sense of authenticity
>actually the story is decently written, or better said thoroughly edited to reduce the bad writing, and the plot is solid because the author can 'magic up' bullshit ways to avoid plot holes (i.e ancient love magic)
>actually Harry Potter is a Christian allegory where Harry is a Christ figure and what is an okay story is made captivating because it borrows heavily on Christian virtues of self-sacrifice, love, good vs evil, all told as a coming of age story. Harry's journey mirror's key aspects of Christ's journey and that is what people respond to whether they realise it or not
>actually JK Rowling is a freemason whose books were shot to success artificially (whilst still having a baseline degree of merit to them) where the story is superficially Christian, but is actually freemasonic and actually satanic in nature
>the children learn wizardy (powered by satan's power, but this is omitted but never not denied in the story), the wizards, like freemasons, live in a secret society.
>the corrupt wizard society that deems themselves better than 'muggles' are essentially allegorical to jews/kabbalah/freemasons who think normal 'gentiles' are little better than cattle
>harry as a protagonist ultimately does nothing to change society, but instead is a golem that is sacrificed by a demented gay wizard as part of a twisted ritual
>harry potter is freemasonry for children

>> No.19216055

>>19215120
>google images

>> No.19216105

>>19216045
>>the corrupt wizard society that deems themselves better than 'muggles' are essentially allegorical to jews/kabbalah/freemasons who think normal 'gentiles' are little better than cattle
But that society and is roundly condemned by the books
>>harry as a protagonist ultimately does nothing to change society, but instead is a golem that is sacrificed by a demented gay wizard as part of a twisted ritual
He does change society, though if the books were honest it might be a change for the worse, and Dumbledore doesn't sacrifice him, he knew all along Harry would actually survive.
>"He said my blood would make him stronger than if he'd used someone else's," Harry told Dumbledore. "He said the protection my - my mother left in me - he'd have it too. And he was right - he could touch me without hurting himself, he touched my face." For a fleeting instant, Harry thought he saw a gleam of something like triumph in Dumbledore's eyes. But next second. Harry was sure he had imagined it, for when Dumbledore had returned to his seat behind the desk, he looked as old and weary as Harry had ever seen him.

>> No.19216138

>>19216105
You're right wizard society is condemned, but it can't be denied Harry does nothing to change it. He maintains the status quo.

Dumbledore is a villain because he willingly chooses to sacrifice a child and to manipulate a child into sacrificing himself. It's wrong. But this can only be understood as wrong of you believe in Christ. Otherwise you can hand wave this away.

>> No.19216157

>>19214212
because most people who really like it that are over 18 are women

>> No.19216166

>>19215251
most people can't form an informed opinion on Hegel because he's writting style is so god damn bad, makes Kant seem like a light read

>> No.19216170

>>19214212
I don't hate HP, I just don't understand why. Why Harry Potter?
Of all the wonderful books long forgotten in time, books like The Secret of Platform 13 or books that are overlooked like The Worst witch...
Of all the authors who wrote for young audiences and struggled to make money, died broke...some of the authors who Rowling stole from.
It just gets to me.

>> No.19216409

>>19216170
Luck, I guess

>> No.19216909
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19216909

>>19214212
Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality is better

>> No.19216979

>>19214308
This is the kind of shit 15 year olds read and then parade around saying thinking their smart until they get gut punched and their crush laughs at them.

>> No.19217064

>>19214212
Read them as they came out, they were fantastic children's books

However for some reason they have now taken the status of religious mythology for childless women and testosterone-deficient males

>> No.19217087

>>19216979
They're* inb4 some akschully nerd corrects me

>> No.19217198
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19217198

>>19214212
Pic related
>inb4 strawman
I unironically know redditfags who think like this.

>> No.19217244

>>19215757
>drop the 2021 memespeak
You realize its obnoxious to go around ordering people to do stuff like this as if you have some kind of authority

>> No.19217838
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19217838

>>19217198

>> No.19217890

>>19216138
>sacrifice a child and to manipulate a child into sacrificing himself
Harry didn't fucking die though and Dumbledore knew he wouldn't. Was it wrong to use Harry as a tool to the extent that he did? Maybe, but he did not sacrifice Harry('s life).

>> No.19217944

>>19214803
I think there's a very big diference between HP fans and Ayn Rand fans.

>> No.19217948

>>19214308
I don't remember this chapter of Harry Potter.

>> No.19217965

>>19214991
It will continue to sell. The original HP fans, those who read it as children and pre-teens, are the one who now have economic adquisitive power. It's the same reason why 90's nostalgia will dominate the market in the next decade. The fact that Rugrats t-shirts are sold at Fast Fashion stores does not mean that Rugrats is still relevant.

>> No.19217971

The writing was mediocre. Even kids realize it by the fifth book which is why they drop it in droves at that point. The only redeeming quality is the setting, a magical school, makes it easy for schoolchildren to use it as a form of escapism. That's the main reason for it's popularity in my opinion.

>> No.19218245
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19218245

>>19214218
> worldbuilding
Not this fucking meme again

>> No.19218294

>>19215467
yes, Nabokov is trash

>> No.19218476

>>19214212
because it's good.
/thread

>> No.19218486

Badly written. Rip off of better books. Only reason it's heard of is hypermarketing. Author's a nazi.

>> No.19218612

>the first half of the first Earthsea book, but now as 7 books
yawn

>> No.19219085

>>19214803
Suprisingly correct assesment

>> No.19219108

>Slaves (house elves) enjoy being slaves, so leave them alone
>Goblins control the banks
>An asian girl from the UK named Cho Chang (Cho is Korean, Chang is Chinese)
>Never calls white characters white; every black character is described as black
>Welsh people are stupid and love to drink
>Abuse/childhood trauma is mostly played for laughs
WTF is wrong with Rowling?

>> No.19219116

>>19215992
>under explaining how spells and their ruleset work
A "magic system" has never improved the literary quality of any book.

>> No.19219131

>>19219108
Latent racism? Based

>> No.19219149

>>19214212
I don't hate Harry Potter, I just don't know why it's the only series of books many women have read

>> No.19219152
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19219152

>>19214308
>Ecclesiastical pamphlet

>> No.19219311

>>19215454
no, it is basd and redpilled and from rational pov every young adult should be entitled to catch a glimpse of it.
Nice recap on HP btw.
t.liberal

>> No.19219333

>>19219152
Has anyone noticed that soijaks have been getting progressively creepier for a long time? It's kind of unnerving desu

>> No.19219411

I'm a 20 year old male and I don't think I'll ever read Harry Potter again, but I recall the books being fun and good. I can't think of any real problem with the series except the new book that was made and the author's retconning and making people gay and such. Okay, so the series isn't based. Still a fun imaginative world.

>> No.19219428

>>19214212
The first three books were okay because they knew what they were, silly children's literature. I still look back fondly on them and would probably enjoy a reread, clumsy prose and all. It's when the books attempted to become "young adult" and present themselves as if they had a serious message that they became intolerable by virtue of their dishonesty.

>> No.19219434

>>19219108
You forgot the Irish character named "Seamus" whose specialities include turning butterbeer into hard liquor and blowing stuff up.

>> No.19219445

>>19219333
I know they're meant to represent the person being replied to, but I always take them at first glance to represent the poster (probably because that's how most other reaction images work), and at this point my first impression of most wojak posters is "deranged schizo"

>> No.19219485

>>19214308
>"Thank God I didn't read many bad books, freed up so much time to read good ones!"
>"Time to skim /lit/ for another couple hours before bed!"

>> No.19219499

>>19214212
It's a mediocre series for children. As such it doesn't deserve any scorn.

But it's also a mediocre series for children that's more omnipresent than literally anything, adored to the point of zealotry by it's incestuous fanbase which upholds it's value and importance way above that of a mediocre series for children. And that is why it's impossible not to dunk on it.

>> No.19219503

>>19214308
How can I determine that a book is a bad book without reading it first?
>"It's popular therefore it is bad. That's enough."
Arthur, YOU are popular.

>> No.19219653

>>19217838
What's the background image?

>> No.19219690
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19219690

Harry Potter sits as it does in my head which I'm fine with, and I don't want to disturb my childhood nostalgia by reading them again. And I can say I truly have grown out of them to point of being a tiny bit irritated when I come across someone (no-one I personally know) who still loves HP. It's old; the horse is pulverized and the cow is barren. There really are more, better books out there – better simply because of their newness to oneself.
>t. These are just my thoughts. Maybe I'm just jaded.

>> No.19219702

Muh school days that doesn't suck. With magic and spells.
Oh but you're asking why /lit/ hates this, which is kinda resembles asking why involuntary celibate males don't seem to have a particular like for females. There are hundreds of reasons why an average person hates a certain book, in the case of Potter you even have less of them compared with the other no-name works or little known classics read by not so much a fun-loving minds. I think the books /lit/ likes are more problematic in a certain way but maybe this is just me. TLDR /lit/ is too intelligent to read books like this, few known few liked but highly sophisticated works are what people read here.

>> No.19219711

>>19219702
>TLDR /lit/ is too intelligent to read books like this
/lit/ is designed to read books like this. Specifically to shit on them.

I mean seriously anon, all we do here is shit on popular books we don't like.

>> No.19219721
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19219721

>>19214212

>> No.19219731

>>19214218
>>derivative, bad worldbuilding, characters have no personalities, thinly veiled and clumsy political metaphors, mary sue protagonist
>>there's a reason it was rejected so many times

. . . and it's the best-selling book series in history. the life of pi was rejected 5 times. publisher rejection means nothing anymore.

you say you hate it to be a contrarian but when you were a kid you probably loved reading through it as much as anyone.

>> No.19219797

>>19214218
>there's a reason it was rejected so many times
While your criticism is valid, it's certainly not the reason why it was rejected. It's a kids series, you really think the publishers were worried about bad worldbuilding?

It was rejected because publishers have stopped having brains and prefer to resort to marketing research, and those said that long children books failed. HP was too long to sell, or so they thought, because since they're brainless and ball-less, they didn't have the intelligence to appreciate a good story and its marketable power.

>> No.19219993

>>19215454
That is actually a good analysis.

>> No.19220003

>>19219993
A commie being mad that the book doesn't end in classless utopia is good analysis? He is literally saying that a children's fantasy book was not childish and unrealistic enough to conform to his deluded fantasies about revolution

>> No.19220061

I could never really get into Harry Potter, even as a kid.

>> No.19220344

>>19219993
It's tryhard when it comes to IRL politics, but the rest is solid: as even the books say, it's not Harry that goes looking for trouble but trouble that goes looking for Harry.

>>19220003
>gets mad without reading
I smell reddit.

>> No.19220351

>>19220344
It is literally a commie who is mad that Harry doesnt eradicate all class oppression

>> No.19220379

DULLEST

>> No.19220394

>>19220351
>doubling down on not reading
The criticism is that Harry is a passive little shit, only reacting to the big bad's schemes instead of seizing the initiative and doing his own thing.
It doesn't matter if Harry fights for a peace&love hippie paradise, some classless tankie utopia, your werhaboo dreams, or whatever: everything is better than Harry half-heartedly defending a dysfunctional, corrupt, retarded clusterfuck of a government that fucks him over time and time again before jobbing to Voldemort in a matter of days and becoming yet another enemy asset.

>> No.19220396

>>19220394
The criticism was explicitly that he and rowling were liberals

>> No.19220408

>>19214212
>Women like it.
>/lit/ is a chud, incel, SFW /pol/ containment board
It isnt hard to understand OP.

>> No.19220410

>>19220394
He fights to stop an evil maniac turning the world into dystopia. You're just a control freak and think morality means trying to tell everyone in society to do what you think is right

>> No.19220466

>>19220410
>lolbert calling anyone a control freak
Lmao.
Even if Harry had no goal beyond stopping Voldemort, making his character closer to a Terminator than to an actual child, he could still be proactive about it instead of fucking around and hoping someone else will take care of things.

>>19220396
>post draws a link between the book being shit and the author's ideology
>anon inteprets it as "the book is bad because the author has the wrong politics"

>> No.19220693

>>19214212
I don't hate the source material at all. I remember reading the books when they dropped, it was comfy as fuck spending a few days completely immersed in the world she created. No other book had that effect on me. Hunger Games was like that too, but much less so.

The fans are what annoy me. Once I was a high school senior, I already thought people who still read HP were manchildren/womanchildren. It got worse in college when people started making trips down to Disney to visit Hogwarts. HP is not the cause, but merely a symptom of an infantile generation longing for nostalgia and running from the responsibilities of adulthood. I get why it's appealing, but it's literally taking soma to deal with your problems. pretty fucked up desu

>> No.19220734

>>19214803
>Warhammer novels
Wow, I used to as well. Only got through a few in The Horus Heresy series however. Still play DOW all the time

>> No.19220749

>>19214803
100% this.

>> No.19221354

>>19219731
When I was a kid I ate sand

>> No.19221361

>>19214212
Cause the Drumpf is Voldemort 111 people. They started liking her the minute she said trannies weren't women. That shows how spineless and feckless you all are.

>> No.19222069
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19222069

>>19219653

>> No.19222865

I've never seen a series take magic and make it so boring.

>> No.19222884

>>19214212
Shit worldbuilding thats never extrapolated on
The under-utilisation of inventiveness in the world of magic is what really fucking annoys me. There is ONE scene, ONE scene in the entirety of the films (idk about the books), where we actually see someone suddenly produce their own spell.
>eat slugs
They literally will slugs into being inside of someones mouth/stomach.
You're telling me that there is a world where there are established spells like [insert butchered latin words] that are legalized/illegalized, but that people can just will things into being through magic as well?
Why the fuck didn't more people just cast spells like "super fucked brain hemmorage" or "i hope your lungs explode".
Fucking pathetic is what it is.

>> No.19223509

>>19219108
>Slaves (house elves) enjoy being slaves, so leave them alone
It's an interesting thought experiemnt. They really did enjoy it.
>Goblins control the banks
Lmao yeah. This one's pretty bad.
>An asian girl from the UK named Cho Chang (Cho is Korean, Chang is Chinese)
Yes, because a Korean-Chinese couple could never exist and choose to have a daughter with a Korean first name but a Chinese last name. Let's just call it racism instead. This is a stupid criticism. She didn't name her Ching Chong. Relax.
>Never calls white characters white; every black character is described as black
That's because white is the default when you're reading a book about white kids in a majority white country (England). If the book took place in Africa, white characters would be called white and the rest would be assumed to be black. The minority gets the descriptior because it's pragmatic. Caring about this is a retarded waste of time.
>Welsh people are stupid and love to drink
I don't know what you're talking about and I've read the series.
>Abuse/childhood trauma is mostly played for laughs
Totally not the case. Nelville is constantly portrayed as a sympathetic character and the horror of his trauma, as well as any other character with childhood trauma, are a frequent source of eliciting empathy from readers. I have no idea where you're getting this from.
>WTF is wrong with Rowling?
I don't know, what's wrong with you?

>> No.19223524

>>19219690
Everyone always says there are better books but nobody has the courage to list them. Or specifically, they don't have the courage to list books that are in a similar veign in terms of genre fiction but are "better."

>> No.19223601

>>19223524
There are other fantasy series that are better. Redwall is far superior. The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings are the absolute best imo.
I'm not a big fan of fantasy actually.

>> No.19223610

>>19223601
The Hobbit was just alright for me. I haven't read any other LOTR because I wasn't impressed enough by the Hobbit. I'd rather read HP over The Hobbit again probably, even though I recognize that The Hobbit is better written.

>> No.19225017

>>19223524
Kir Bulychev. Suck my Slavic dick, you filthy apologist.

>> No.19225100

>>19216979
Yeah that does sound like Schopenhauer

>> No.19225220

>>19219499
The same people also cope really hard because Rowling is a "TERF" (read: based)
And they go back and point out shit like Cho Chang, cope by saying how can Hermione not be black, etc
And then they eventually realize their whole personality is Harry Potter, GoT, The Office, other type of pop cultures and realize they can't live without it, so more recently as much hate as has been going around, they're actually reneging on their hatred and starting to love it again and preaching the "separate art from the artist" mantra. It's pretty funny to watch, sad as it is sometimes.

>> No.19225265

>>19214803
That's because to them there is no high culture. Look at music, film ART!

>> No.19225290

>>19216170
After the cold war, the world became more of a blank slate.

The late 90's thus propelled a lot of fantasy productions like Shrek, LoTR, and of course the up-and-coming Harry Potter

>> No.19225291 [DELETED] 

>>19214212
>Why does /lit/ hate Harry Potter so?
Trans rights

>> No.19226746

>>19223601
>redwall
Ok so that wasn’t a weird fever dream on my part

>> No.19226775

>>19214879
Go back to fucking reddit stupid cocksucker?

>> No.19226796

>>19226775
??? I don't understand? Pls elaborate???

>> No.19226828

What do I do if i have no feelings about JK Rowling, her works or her fans? I’ve also yet to meet someone who bases their personality around HP or Marvel or Star Wars. Most people I know just hesitantly acknowledge they like it because of peer pressure.

>> No.19226921

>>19219333
they have to anon
the people they represent are daemonic pawns

>> No.19227454

>>19226775
He's right and you're a pointlessly belligerent faggot