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19248212 No.19248212 [Reply] [Original]

This is a fascinating report on Wang Huning, a Chinese political scientist who spent time in the US, and left disillusioned with the state of American society. He wrote a book in 1991, America Against America, which predicted the fault lines that would grow over the coming decades: drug addiction, nihilism, loss of collective identity, inequality, and racial tensions.
China is keenly aware of the cultural ills of America, and is attempting to avoid them at home and exploit them abroad.

https://palladiummag.com/2021/10/11/the-triumph-and-terror-of-wang-huning/

Have you read the modern Chinese de Tocqueville?

>> No.19248231

This was a good article. I'm not interested in reading the book, too depressing. I think he underestimates how long our nightmare can continue from this point, and even grow. Time will tell

>> No.19248377

>>19248212
Nice article. Has anyone here actually read that book?

>> No.19248435

this shill thread again.

>> No.19248544

>>19248212
>wang hunging

>> No.19248565

That he was able to predict these issues is not an accomplishment. What solutions did he propose?

>inb4 have a communist revolution bro
What realistic solutions did he propose

>> No.19248595

>>19248565
Why would he solve (((America)))'s problems? lol the solutions he found are to favor the Chinese.

>> No.19248634

>>19248595
>the solutions he found are to favor the Chinese.
If our counterparts in China have found a way to solve or avoid our problems, then we should shamelessly study them, modify their solutions to address America, and implement these new solutions. I am an American to the core, but… something something great artists steal, and they’d steal from the Chinese as well.

>> No.19248667

>>19248634
Well, look at what they've been doing recently. Banning LGBT faggotry in media, limiting children to just 2 hours of gaming per day, releasing nationalist films during national holidays, etc. They are keeping their "software" intact and not bending to poisonous Western ideologies, which rot their culture and distract their citizens.

The article mentions that Americans believe that the solutions are exclusively economic or technological but that the "software" (the values of a culture) matter as well and are of equal importance.

The issue with Americans is that they falsely believe that "freedom" for everything is good, when in fact freedom can corrupt and ruin you as well, like it's currently happening,

>> No.19248835

>>19248634
The methods to rule over a nhilistic diverse population have already been established. The issue is keeping freedoms available to the citizen.

A strict ideologically railroaded childhood with the birth of freedoms at adulthood... but that kind of sounds familiar. Maybe the death of nationalism/patriotism is the hospital crutch taken away

>> No.19248845

>>19248667
The lgbt shit is just pushed to combat islamic fervor/unity as the past decade has been entirely about displacing those refugees

>> No.19248848

>>19248667
Ah, but then the issue becomes who is providing the structure. The limitations on freedom for the majority are inherently linked to the amount of power held by one group or another, obviously this will have large social impact. The corruption does not stem from freedom, but freedom's allowance of accumulation of social power, which then leads to freedom's downfall, good or ill. This is something Western ideology has been grappling with since its inception, Huning picked up on this. Quality of life is insured, but who's measuring?

>> No.19248882

Sounds like a boring, generic conservative that was only able to achieve some "success" due to the economic and political structure of China, where the state is strong enough to attack the root of the problem. Judging from what was quoted in the article his own writings don't contain any insightful take on these social issues, and his solutions are incredibly boneheaded (just give families with kids more money bro) and apparently not very efficient

I assume this will end with his reforms creating a lot of uninteded consequences, like state-sponsored conservatism usually does

>> No.19248894

>>19248634
America was designed by and for a god loving. people.

IE a moral people that have strict morals, that belie in objective reality. People like to rail that the church hates truth but it is the absolute opposite replace god with the word truth and you get the same thing.

>> No.19248895

>>19248212
>dude just read America Against America
There isn’t even an official translation available, only an amateur one.
https://mobile.twitter.com/jaakwaller/status/1353100985325903872?lang=en

>> No.19248909

>>19248894
How are you so inept at using punctuation? It's astonishing. You have an extra period where it's not needed, then you have a run-on sentence that should've been broken up with a period. Hint: if there's a pause when you're reading it out loud, YOU NEED SOME SORT OF PUNCTUATION THERE. Please, please learn how to type properly. It's not that difficult to use proper punctuation. It's really not that difficult to type something that sounds like it was written by someone with higher-than-room-temperature IQ.

>> No.19248919

>>19248909
legally disabled mate.

>> No.19249023

>>19248909
based

>> No.19249047

correct me if im wrong but didnt the USSR also try banning lgbt, actively supressing US culture, persecuting journalists or writers that were seen as too lax and westernised. what exactly is china doing that wasnt done before? or are they just gonna go really hard at it and hope it works this time? i find it strange that china is so obsessed with america's ills and avoiding them when the circumstances are completely different.

>> No.19249095

>>19248882
>the government of his country is not strong enough to destroy degenerate faggotry
lmao you're doomed

>> No.19249114

>>19248634
If the US did what the Chinese do to prevent socio-cultural rot, your population would burn the country down because they wouldn't be allowed their superbowl and high fructose corn syrup.

>> No.19249140

>>19248882
Here comes the "liberal"...

>> No.19249159

>>19249047
But the USSR wasn’t rife with the kind of tensions America currently is. I don’t know if Russia has to deal with the kind of social issues of a similar nature today. Is there a risk tot ethnic Russians supporting a mass movement of Chechens so intensely they would gladly destroy their own country to do it.

>> No.19249185

>>19249047
China economically liberalized but destroyed attempts at political liberalization or attempts to make china socially left. Russia did not economically liberalize but allowed attempts at political liberalization to succeed.

>> No.19249221

My question is why are the Chinese spamming this guy on an image board?

He offers no insight into America, leaves out all that individuality accomplished (that the Chinese have stolen because their society can't create it themselves for lack of individuality and non-conformity), and he is nothing more than an apologist for the authoritarianism and centralization of his own system.
If America is broken, it is because it has abandoned individuality (and mutual respect for individuality and difference) for the exclusion and conformity of centralization, not because it is somehow "lonely," but because it has allowed the centralists and conformists to attack the diversity that makes this country great for nothing more than the profit of their platforms.
America's founders left the confines of the centralized expectations and homogeneity of monarchies and religions and families because they were stifling individual exploration. Why the fuck would any of us miss that?

Instead of spamming an image board, why don't you go eat another dead bad, and drive your car into a crowd of people.
Give XI a great big kiss for me, next time you are sucking his dick.

>> No.19249243

>>19249221
>wants to kiss Xi
why are burger such closeted fags?

>> No.19249246

>>19249159
USSR had plenty of inequality, corruption, drug use, abortions, racial tensions that exploded once the curtain was drawn back, etc, which is why im so confused what exactly is china going to accomplish here that wasnt already tried and failed. a lot of america's problems are self-made and i cant imagine them ever taking root in china. it seems to me like just another step towards total societal control and this whole "we don't wanna repeat america's mistakes" is a convenient excuse for their dumb brainwashed masses

>> No.19249259

>>19249246
Modern China is not the USSR. It's a much more solid project in case you haven't been paying attention.

>> No.19249287

>>19249221
seethe more amerimutt

>> No.19249315
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19249315

>>19249287
>seeve moar amewimutt

>> No.19249318

>>19249259
It's not. In fact it's a million times more precarious due to complete dependence on western trade.

>> No.19249415

>>19249318
It not China is now big enough that it can grow on just internal development. Western trade now is about gaining more power over the west.

>> No.19249428

>>19249318
It's the opposite. It's blooming because the West depends on China to an insane level, which is good for both, honestly.

>> No.19249432

>>19249428
West is selling itself to china, the only one profiting is China.

>> No.19249455

>>19249432
Western companies are profiting as well, by making their shit in China at a cheap cost and re-selling it at a bigger price in the West.

>> No.19249459

>>19249455
Maybe at first now China has their tech and only keeps the factories open to milk more dollars out of the West.

>> No.19249464

>>19249221
Not even. It's just accfag spamming because Nick threads are dead

>> No.19249469
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19249469

Here's the section on sex liberation. I just read it and made some highlights. He quotes Marcuse and seems to agree that looser ideas about sex is an inevitable result of material development of society, but seems to disagree with him about sex liberation taking on political dimensions that could liberate people from capitalism. I'd say it's a pretty objective look at the sex issue in the U.S., and he doesn't really come down on the "right" or "left" as Americans would understand it. He seems to suggest that both have problems, that sex liberation in the U.S. contains both "the best and the worst," and the embrace of extreme sexual liberation in the U.S. is really just the extreme opposite of the former period of extreme sexual repression -- you don't get one without the other (unity of opposites).

>>19249185
>China economically liberalized but destroyed attempts at political liberalization or attempts to make china socially left.
What do you mean by "socially left?" China is not an Islamic country. In an American context, I can see that though. But I'm not sure the "social left / right" as westerners understand it even translates over there so simply. It seems like the kind of country where the cultural norms would give everyone in the American spectrum something to get pissed off about. For example, I think women's workforce participation is higher than in the United States (including in construction). The T.V. culture is conservative but gay people have apps to hook up with and the government doesn't care. It's just different. It seems kinda "moderate."

https://youtu.be/snItPkBxgSM?t=658

>> No.19249487

>>19249428
That's not my point. And no it's NOT good for either. It's just mutually assured economic destruction.

>> No.19249504

>>19249246
>>19249047
China today has many of the same issues the US has. The article in the OP talks about this. You read the link the OP posted, right?

>> No.19249505

>>19249487
The U.S. has definitely benefited from trade with China, it's just that the benefits are unevenly distributed.

>> No.19249517

>>19249487
>It's just mutually assured economic destruction.
Care to elaborate?

>> No.19249521

>>19248667
>LGBT faggotry
Reactionaries are too quick to jump on this as a sign that China is some socially conservative godsend. Wait at least a couple years to see how this actually takes effect. Don't forget that China had a transwomen media personality far before that would have been accepted in America. If Jin Xing gets booted off the air, the reactionaries might have a point.

>> No.19249534

>>19249521
>"Reactionaries"
>implying transfaggotry is the norm
??

>> No.19249537

>>19249243
Its obviously the liberalism.

>>19249469
What translation is that? I wouldn't trust the translation by some random faggot on twitter (pleonasm).

>> No.19249578
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19249578

>>19249521
Schrodinger's China

>>19249537
It's the DeepL translation that was then line edited.

I read Chinese papers using Google Translate regularly (and DeepL is better than that) and it works well enough and the only problems are usually with colloquial expressions and some names. Like when Wang talks about prostitution he says that in China, it's understood "to mean 'prostitution'" in quotation marks which I didn't understand. Does Chinese culture quietly tolerate prostitution and consider it normal? Like it's technically illegal but it's basically decriminalized and it's not hard to come by.

Anyways, whether you read it or not, trust the translation or not, or get something out of it or not, is up to you.

>> No.19249581
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19249581

>>19248212
Anyone of these predictions could've been made in 1965. They're aren't in the slightest prescient, they were already dated and cliched when he 'came up with them'. All of Americans problems are long term, some dating back to its earliest years, not because people don't pretend to not cheat in their wives or don't pretend to go to church anymore.

Consider this, this notion that these problems are new is the psyop.

>> No.19249612

>But many political thinkers would argue there is more to a comprehensive definition of modern liberalism than that. Instead, they would identify liberalism’s essential telos as being the liberation of the individual from all limiting ties of place, tradition, religion, associations, and relationships, along with all the material limits of nature, in pursuit of the radical autonomy of the modern “consumer.
Good article

>>19248882
>his solutions are incredibly boneheaded (just give families with kids more money bro) and apparently not very efficient
Did you even read the article? He talks about the absolute futility of these methods and how losing the will to survive is perhaps an inevitable trait of modernity

>> No.19249651

>>19249581
Nice image. Is this Serbian?

>> No.19249657

>>19249578
Desu, I wouldn't be surprised if Chinese culture is lax regarding prostitution. East Asia is like that in general, prostitution is technically illegal in Thailand after all.

>> No.19249678

Lack of morals every women that spreads their legs lowers the value of all women.

>> No.19249681
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19249681

For once a great, informative and horrifying article. 300 IQ Ted K confirmed again as indisputably right on everything, and will be confirmed again when this last stand will probably fail. It's going to be impossible to restructure this shit even for China using brute force. It's probably going to get a few heads rolling once they touch the megacorps. The 1% has the resources to retaliate.
On the other hand, if this succeeds... I don't know if it will be better than what we are currently experiencing. How does the State decide which values are right? Sure I'd ban the digital crack and every other damaging thing but obviously they won't stop there.

>> No.19249736
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19249736

>>19249521
The stuff about "effeminate men" being banned or whatever also doesn't really hold up to scrutiny since the Mid-Autumn Festival gala a couple weeks ago featured performances from singers who would easily qualify for such a ban if it actually existed. I heard a joke that China didn't ban femboys, they just nationalized them.

https://youtu.be/c_gwyDsmeF4

My understanding though is that it was more about the kind of media that ends up pushing every other teen to get cosmetic surgery in South Korea, and also a small set of weird game show programs that have on underaged people and then leer at them as "fresh meat" or something.

I don't expect much from this forum though which takes cherrypicking information as its main way to interpret the world. But you have to be careful staking much of a position on issues like that especially when trying to read it through third-party translations, and, often enough, selectively read or deliberately misinterpreted by a very craven western media complex that /pol/ still basically gets most of their information and understanding from regardless of whatever they say about it being owned by the Hebrew race.

It's also harder in the context of a country that had a radically modernist communist revolution after centuries of authoritarian feudalism which the communists proceeded to pile up in a giant bonfire and destroy. Then they had the task of building a modern country more or less from scratch. Like, fuck, they didn't have a single 911-style police dispatch number anywhere in the country until the late 80s. So everything they've doing, they've had to figure it out as they go along. And I think that's one reason why Wang was in the U.S. in the late 80s and studying everything in a what works / what doesn't sense from their perspective and what can be learned from it.

You see this a lot with older Chinese intellectuals. They're very open to this kind of thing. There was an interesting article in Guancha a few weeks ago just about Yugoslavia written by some guys who visited it in the 1980s because they were also trying to reform the system there and the Chinese were there watching it, and talking about what went wrong and why because there are some similarities (Xinjiang / Tibet etc.), and comparing Serbia then to Serbia now. It was pretty interesting.

>> No.19249741

>>19248212
I'd rather have Frank Zappa singing about blowjobs than some shitty Chinese patriotic song or some shitty fortune cookie-tier Confucian aphorism, any day of the week. Any person with a brain in their heads would.
No amount of ''collective happiness'' can compensate for the formulaic boredom of living under an authoritarian regime. Commie leftists, with their tame incel mindset (as opposed to the untamed incels from the right), have no idea what it's like living in a conservative, moralistic realm. It stifles your creative impulses.
Having grown up in a Catholic household and before the internet was common in my country, there's nothing more uninteresting to me than this bullshit talk about ''family'' and ''collective values''. Your can print Huning's book, fold it into a large cilinder and stick it up your arsehole, letting it stay there with your dildos and plugs until they are forced out by a gigantic stream of bat meat shit.

>> No.19249764

>>19249741
stunning and brave. transition when?

>> No.19249768

>>19249741
>No amount of ''collective happiness'' can compensate for the formulaic boredom of living under an authoritarian regime.
Perhaps humanity will learn, one day, the long neglected art of moderation. Can you imagine just doing things but only to a certain point, because you know where to stop? Literally every problem of humanity is about lack of moderation. It's all or nothing. Blow 500 people a day or be a slave virgin in a burqa. Be a consoomer addict who's adrift among animalistic stimuli or some kind of ascetic. The only true source of moderation for humanity was scarcity. There was a physical limit to how far you could go, so people had little and made the most of that little they had. But now there's no such thing and we have never developed the judgment.

>> No.19249774

>>19248212
>country has contradictions
woah. exciting new developments out of capitalist roader thought

>> No.19249800
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19249800

>>19249741
>Having grown up in a Catholic household ... I'd rather have Frank Zappa singing about blowjobs
Well this kinda goes to what he's saying though. Extreme sexual and cultural repression eventually turns into its opposite and leads to Frank Zappa singing about blowjobs. It's just like every kid who grows up in a really strict conservative household and then becomes a young man and goes off to college and parties like crazy. While every thing interacts with other things around it, the fundamental cause of a development of things is not external but internal -- it lies within the contradictoriness of a thing, hence its motion and development.

>> No.19249812

>>19249736
I don't think that guy would be considered effeminate.

>>19249741
If the worst you have to suffer from is moralistic boredom, you must be living a very sheltered life.

>> No.19249824

>>19249812
>I don't think that guy would be considered effeminate.
Well, if that's the case, then I have much to learn about China, if what seems effeminate to me doesn't seem effeminate at all to them. Maybe I'd fit in very well because I'm a huge sissy.

>> No.19249827

>>19248909
Wow...nostalgia!
Followups to alt.flame.spelling!

>> No.19249851

>>19249824
I mean, east asia does have a more relaxed idea of masculinity in comparison to a place as bullheaded and brutish as the united states. But then again, so does much of western europe. Not every major region takes its ideas from what is masculinity or what isn't from Marlboro commercials.

Honestly, TV, radio, movies and even books to a certain extent has really done quite the fucking number on americans' views on things. Makes me wonder if all this shit with americans isn't just what happens when you have a entire society bouncing around back and forth between external media stimuli for decades on end. No wonder all the disintegration floated to the surface only after television became the norm.

>> No.19249867

>>19249764
Says the incel.

>>19249768
>Can you imagine just doing things but only to a certain point, because you know where to stop?

Yes. So?

>Blow 500 people a day

Yes. What's the problem with that?

Being a lawyer and having written a few books as well as learned a few languages, I am probably more moderate and ''strict'' than most conservatives, but that doesn't mean I do not enjoy the *right* of being able to forget moderation whenever I want, otherwise I'd be immoderately moderate. There's nothing worse than an immoderate moderate.
And some people just enjoy being immoderate, just like some enjoy being ascetic. That's their problem, not mine.

>>19249800
>Extreme sexual and cultural repression eventually turns into its opposite

So what?
Also, not necessarily.

>the fundamental cause of a development of things is not external but internal

Fifth-rate pseudo-metaphysics. Is that the most recent advancement of fortune cookie philosophy? How fascinating.

>> No.19249877

>>19249867
>>being a lawyer
Nobody here cares about your status as a criminal.

>> No.19249885

>>19249867
>Yes. What's the problem with that?
lol you're retarded

>> No.19249888
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19249888

>>19248667
>The issue with Americans is that they falsely believe that "freedom" for everything is good, when in fact freedom can corrupt and ruin you as well, like it's currently happening,
Well it's also like the BBQ-Beer-Freedom t-shirt guy. He might see himself as being opposed to everything on the left but he acts exactly like a stereotypical SJW in terms of his behavior. It's a very difficult problem because do you try to find some compromise between the two extremes or do you try to negate the whole thing?

>> No.19249911

>>19249888
People screaming and yelling and breaking shit is a inevitable consequence of all modern politics. The patriotic redneck and the screeching liberal are just acting as expected from political militants, activists etc. They're not acting like each other, they in some level are each other in the same way two muslims may be different as one is shia or the other is sunni, but they're still muslim.

>> No.19249917

>>19248634
If the US were to promote more "nationalistic" spirit, it would immediately rile up a good chunk of the population. Though, ironically, they promote nationalism passively when they worship immigration and the US touching other countries with aide, and the like, to keep its hegemony alive, i.e. they believe the country is more worthy than others and wish to sublimate more.

If the US cut itself off from the world, it would do it more good. Those who feel charitable can put their money where their mouth is rather than expecting others to do the work for them.

>> No.19249925

>>19248667
>The issue with Americans is that they falsely believe that "freedom" for everything is good, when in fact freedom can corrupt and ruin you as well, like it's currently happening,
I think Americans have grossly twisted the very concept of freedom inside their heads because they're poorly educated, both critically and spiritually. They have this concept of freedom that is very childish, of stubbornly doing whatever the fuck you want in spite of everyone and everything. You cannot organize a society like this because this concept of freedom excludes the possibility of a social life. Every social exchange is a limitation on your ability to do whatever the fuck you want, the moment other people are involved you're already looking at freedom for your family, for your people, etc. and this requires a certain unity of thought. Having a nation built on this idea of individualistic "freedom" is contradictory.

>> No.19249931

>>19249877
Whatever, incel.

>>19249885
What's the problem?
Georges Simenon had 10,000 lovers and he was one of the most prolific writers of all time - probably the most prolific good one, alongside Lope de Vega. How did having 10,000 lovers damage him?
You are just coping because you can't find women who will want to have sex with you, and even when you find them they are merely the ones who other men have rejected.

>> No.19249949

>>19249812
>I don't think that guy would be considered effeminate.
lmao, can you show us a picture of what does then.

>> No.19249959

>>19249925
I believe the idea the americans have is that people are born free to do whatever they want and have that right curtailed by the state so the state should be limited so that people do what they want with care for other people's rights all by themselves.

>>19249949
gayniggaskissing.jpg

>> No.19249962

>>19249925
That is the argument people make for things like traditional gender roles

>> No.19249964

>>19249925
Oh, the most egregious example of this can be found in American Protestantism. Religion, any religion, is inextricably tied with limitations, depriving yourself of certain things, discipline (in ritual behavior) and so on. AFAIK America is founded on very Christian values, and there's "in God we trust" on banknotes. But Americans have infected their own religion with this mindset. Not even God has authority over the Burger. The Burger will just say "I don't care, I decide what the Bible means" and completely freestyle it until the word of God conforms to whatever the fuck he wants to believe. There's no other religion an American could believe in because anything but complete and total absence of rules or limitations would be seen as a denial of freedom.

>> No.19249977

What I really don't get then after reading the article, is why they not just straight out ban social media. It's the one thing that genuinly could reverse the cultural degredation. It would put a stop to the control and influence of the masses/crowd on all fronts. It takes no fool to see that ever since its inception the degenerate rollercoaster has started going out of control.

>> No.19249978

One bitcoin if you can prove freedon is real

>> No.19249988

>>19249959
This is another absurdity of Americans. You are so obsessed with "freedom" that you cannot even accept having a government at all. The very presence of an overarching institution that regulates public order means slavery to you. Your government is supposed to be YOU, you are part of the government and you form the government along with your community, city, state and whatnot. Because every form of society has a hierarchy, from the family to the village to the town and state and nation. There will always be a hierarchy, someone who organizes shit. It does not imply that you're a slave, you are a slave when you cannot decide whether or not to leave, or to organize with other people in your community to change something. You do not think this way, you think that having any hierarchy at all is fascist and only some kind of Spaghetti Western way of living is compatible with your thoughts. This puerile attitude is why you're all so fucked, and why you fucked everyone else too along with you.

>> No.19250017
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19250017

>>19249917
Reminds me of what Michael Hudson says. The American "nationalists" will pit their self-image against "globalism," but many of those "globalist" institutions like the IMF and World Bank which were ostensibly conceived to promote a peaceful world order contra *nationalism* are actually instruments for extending U.S. dominance and predation of other countries enforced by the U.S. military and control over financial institutions which lubricate cross-border transactions. Or, like, what started out as the opposite of nationalism or the antidote to it (after the bad experience with it in World War II) turned into its opposite -- as mechanisms of enforcing unilateral globalism by the United States. As Hudson says: "Globalism today is American nationalism."

But the really intense flag-waving that you'd get from a Trump is too destabilizing to the project. MAGA are like the American version of the Wahhabists in Saudi Arabia who stormed the Grand Mosque in 1979 and shocked everyone because their problem with the Saudi regime was that it didn't live up to its own professed religious ideology enough. The Saudis lucked out though because the USSR invaded Afghanistan the same year, so the Saudis paid for the extremist jihadi guys' airfare to muj camps on the Afghan-Pak border. "Go fight the infidels... over there." Indeed, long-term management of an old system is a very difficult thing, but it's easier if you can externalize / transfer / outsource the problem.

>>19249949
I think they're like Russians too. What seems gay to Americans doesn't seem gay at all to Russians... like Italo-Disco.

https://youtu.be/yJUJgDbc_K4

>> No.19250050

>>19248667
Sounds kinda fascistic. No thanks I like my freedoms and I like having a government that is more accountable even if that makes us weaker.

>> No.19250057

>>19249964
I mean, isn't that just low churchless protestantism? Isn't that where the whole "read the bible yourself and interpret it alone" come from?

>>19249977
Probably would be too radical even for China, desu. Plus, I feel like it would be as impossible as banning television or radio at this point. You'd have to ban the internet itself I think.

>>19249988
Anon, I don't even live in the same hemisphere as the americans. But the americans they started out with the belief that the government is NOT "you", and never will be. They start from the presumption that the government is some other that exists above. It comes from their founding event being their opposition to british monarchy and being a british colony.

>> No.19250063

>>19250050
But then your government isn't going to be accountable to you, just like it never has. Its going to be accountable to private businesses and interests at best and foreign states at worse.

>> No.19250073

>>19250050
>I like having a government that is more accountable
Governments in Western societies do whatever the fuck you want while the population keeps infighting for voting the wrong person even though nobody fucking votes. That's "democracy".
China's hardline policy will fail because there's no way you can repress people this hard. I mean who the fuck is going to care about your nationalistic movie singing the glory of Xi Jinping and how he made the whole Universe. Every society under a regime like this always hated that shit, although today it's probably possible to brainwash much deeper and earlier and isolate individuals much more effectively. The truth is that every method is shit, you either live in a broken society of "free" individuals or you live in some totalitarian dystopia. There's no way things will ever be unfucked with the level of technology we have today.

>> No.19250080

>>19250073
*do whatever the fuck they want

>> No.19250094

>>19250050
>I would rather self-destruct than survive
suit yourself

>> No.19250099

>>19248667
>The issue with Americans is that they falsely believe that "freedom" for everything is good, when in fact freedom can corrupt and ruin you as well, like it's currently happening,

We used to understand this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnamFerzNvw

>> No.19250114

>>19250073
The Chinese love this shit, though. They don't have this American mindset that not putting trannies in media every 10 seconds is against muh freedumb. God, Americans are so retarded that they would rather self-destruct than renounce their degeneracy.

>> No.19250116

>>19250017
You have to be gay yourself to think italo-Disco is gay. Thats all thats needed to be said about that.

>>19250073
The chinese could fix it, but it wouldn't be done by singing the glories of Mao-Jinping thought to the masses with guns pointed at their backs. You can't try to make your billion people nation reject liberal decadence by offering them a retread of maoist communist bullshit. Jinping should spend more time looking in the mirror if he wants to preserve chinese values from liberal capitalism.

>> No.19250127
File: 67 KB, 619x504, k1ffffffffffffffff.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
19250127

>>19249977
Xi said something at Davos a few years ago about globalization that I think sums up their thinking:

https://youtu.be/Ys6skqxQKMk?t=356

>From the historical perspective, economic globalization resulted from growing social productivity, and is a natural outcome of scientific and technological progress, not something created by any individuals or any countries. ... As a line in an old Chinese poem goes, “Honey melons hang on bitter vines; sweet dates grow on thistles and thorns.” In a philosophical sense, nothing is perfect in the world. One would fail to see the full picture if he claims something is perfect because of its merits, or if he views something as useless just because of its defects. It is true that economic globalization has created new problems, but this is no justification to write economic globalization off completely. Rather, we should adapt to and guide economic globalization, cushion its negative impact, and deliver its benefits to all countries and all nations.

Point being, globalization is a product of technological changes and that's beyond the power of whole countries to do much about. And it's double-edged sword, so there are positives and negatives and everything is a contradiction. And if that's true, then it's better to guide it and get the positives while trying to minimize the downsides. It's the same with Chinese nationalism. It's just a thing that exists and so the question is whether to let it run out of control, bottle it up and suppress it (although that might only make it explode later), or try to guide it to get the benefits (promoting Chinese companies etc.) while minimizing the negatives.

Same with social media. There are downsides, but it can also be a useful tool for the government to figure out what's going on, or using technology to connect buyers to sellers so poor farmers can boost their incomes by growing a particular crop that's sold in urban restaurants.

Cai Qi is also notable because he had a personal social media account at a time when it was rare for Chinese officials to do so, and he quickly rose in the ranks to become the party secretary for Beijing, and he has been an advocate of (often aloof) officials using it to communicate and also get in touch with people, so if people report that something is fucked up, that can spur the government into trying to unfuck whatever the problem is. Fun fact, his Weibo account's subtitle is "Cai Qi, a Bolshevik."

Stalin:

>The third feature of production is that the rise of new productive forces and of the relations of production corresponding to them does not take place separately from the old system, after the disappearance of the old system, but within the old system; it takes place not as a result of the deliberate and conscious activity of man, but spontaneously, unconsciously, independently of the will of man.

>> No.19250140

>>19249964
I feel like this is mostly just a stereotype. Outside of media I've never actually encountered one of these freedom obsessed people. Idk how representative of the average American my family is, but my family was always very civic minded and almost neurotic in their emphasis on self-sacrifice and the common good.

>> No.19250142

>>19249221
Its this exact delusion of grandeur and inability to honestly and fairly engage with other places and cultures of this world that has led america into its current state, and it is exactly this which cements its own downfall. Enjoy your shithole while you still have it, i guess

>> No.19250147

>>19250063
>Its going to be accountable to private businesses and interests at best and foreign states at worse.
Right, of course every government tends to be more answerable to the powerful interests within it. But I don't see how a more authoritarian structure like China is the answer. More secure possibly but at least here citizens can still have some influence.

>> No.19250152

>>19250073
>The truth is that every method is shit, you either live in a broken society of "free" individuals or you live in some totalitarian dystopia. There's no way things will ever be unfucked with the level of technology we have today.
I agree. Didn't say democracy is perfect just that I still prefer it.

>> No.19250159

>>19250094
A bit hyperbolic don't you think. Do you really think the choice is between some super authoritarian state v.s suicide?

>> No.19250167

>>19250114
>The Chinese love this shit, though.
Everyone who lived under communism hated the commie propaganda shit. It's not as unpleasant as seeing trannies but it's definitely just as on the nose. The Chinese are simply not allowed to express that they hate it, just like North Koreans are not allowed to express how full of shit their dictator is. Pretty much what >>19250116 said.
>>19250140
I've talked to this kind of person over the internet too many times to think it's just a stereotype. Or I've been really unlucky with Americans so far. Almost every place that is American heavy and somewhat political is going to have this kind of shit.

>> No.19250190

>>19249651
Yep can confirm

>> No.19250193

Terrible samefag thread.

>> No.19250198

>>19250167
>I've talked to this kind of person over the internet too many times to think it's just a stereotype. Or I've been really unlucky with Americans so far. Almost every place that is American heavy and somewhat political is going to have this kind of shit.
Every stereotype is based on some truth. It's definitely a real phenomenon, I just don't think it's as universal as it appears online. America is a big place with a lot of regional differences.

>> No.19250206

>>19250198
Also how do you know when you're talking to an American? If you assume every polite person online is non-American, then of course you're going to have your view confirmed.

>> No.19250212

>>19250099
America used be a country where obscenity, pornography and communist literature were all banned. Now americans tell themselves they've always had limitless free speech and you can't have any limitations on it without it not being free speech. Its weird, since the 1960s and 1970s, americans have developted this almost alien view of their own country that might as well be fictional. I really think this has to do with the influence of TV and movies in their society and culture.

>> No.19250220

>>19250127
I find that line of thinking rejecting objective human nature. As a species we have developed highly complex mechanisms, not just on an individual level but also on a social level. Certain technologies that fundamentally undermine those important fabrics will bring more disaster than good, regardless of how you utilize them. We should focus on technologies that work well with our nature.

>> No.19250221

>>19250206
I refer to people whom I specifically knew to be American.

>> No.19250236

>>19250220
I mean, its the head of the CCP saying it. Of course he says its all from technological matter and technological progress, he's a communist.

>> No.19250238

>>19250221
Okay fair enough.

>> No.19250247

>>19250212
>I really think this has to do with the influence of TV and movies in their society and culture.
Have you seen american movies from the 60s? They are generally really really good. The downfall only starts in the mid/early 70s.

>> No.19250253

>>19250247
I mean less the content and more the presence of the technology.

>> No.19250269
File: 359 KB, 628x493, 695486905465.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
19250269

>>19250167
>Everyone who lived under communism hated the commie propaganda shit. It's not as unpleasant as seeing trannies but it's definitely just as on the nose.
There are true believers. But I think a lot of people see it for what it is. When the Chinese state media tells them some propaganda, I think most people know that it's the state media telling them this -- and I've heard complaints about it, privately, like about how cringe it can be, and it can often be clunky and blazingly on-the-nose so it's hard to miss and it DOES seem like the expression of some dystopian regime. The T.V. address you directly:

https://youtu.be/hYUbd7TPFWM
https://youtu.be/YEIwlk4zH60

And maybe it is a dystopia.

But what might be more disturbing about the United States is that all this is happening too, but it's indirect, so people don't think they're absorbing propaganda all the time. I read something about how 40% of CNN's new hires for their on-air analysts are "former" intelligence agency people. That's obvious to some people depending on where they sit politically, but they might just end up consuming another brand of the same slop. The Democrats and their media outlets are like the Dove brand of shampoo instead of the Old Spice brand. And that might make it more effective.

Like the guy ITT who is like "I would prefer to live in a democracy instead of living in a country where people are repressed and have nationalist movies singing about the glory of the nation beamed at them. Uhh...

https://youtu.be/qSqVVswa420

>> No.19250276

>>19250269
Oh yeah there definitely is a fuckton of propaganda in the West except it's slightly more subtle.

>> No.19250319

>>19250269
>>19250276
Propaganda in the west is done much more often by private hands than by the state, USSR and China style. Top Gun: Maverick for example is Hollywood and done hand in hand with chinese companies AND the US military. Propaganda in the US might as well be a distinct class of its own really, there's no difference in method between propaganda done by the state and done by private groups, the only difference are the ends and they may converge in certain cases.

>> No.19250347

>>19249931
What is you fixation on sex and sexual partners? Do you manage to function normally outside the sphere of sexuality?

>> No.19250399

>>19249931
>You are just coping because you can't find women who will want to have sex with you
oh okay I got it: dilate

>> No.19250411

>>19250347
The only ones who have a fixation with sex are those who wish to ban it or limit it even among consenting adults, as well as limiting porn, prostitution, sex-themed art etc.
As for me, I have a normal sex life and wish other people the same, but if they want to exaggerate, well, who am I to forbid them? After all, Simenon did it, so why shouldn't they? And even I might want to exaggerate in the future, because people change, and there would be nothing wrong with that.

>Do you manage to function normally outside the sphere of sexuality?

Yes, I am a lawyer and have written three books, besides reading in several foreign languages (English was my third one). All before the age of 26.
What about you?
What have you accomplished? What makes you so superior that you defend a government that wishes to limit people's sexuality and enjoyment of life?

>> No.19250453

>>19250269
>Like the guy ITT who is like "I would prefer to live in a democracy instead of living in a country where people are repressed and have nationalist movies singing about the glory of the nation beamed at them. Uhh...
I don't deny there's pro-America propaganda. I'm not blind. Do you deny that the American people have some influence over their government at a local level? It's pretty ridiculous to me to act like the U.S state is as uniformly authoritarian and dystopi c as the CCP

>> No.19250475

>>19250269
>I read something about how 40% of CNN's new hires for their on-air analysts are "former" intelligence agency people. That's obvious to some people depending on where they sit politically, but they might just end up consuming another brand of the same slop. The Democrats and their media outlets are like the Dove brand of shampoo instead of the Old Spice brand. And that might make it more effective.
I've noticed this on MSNBC. It's always the same intelligence figureheads from the FBI or Homeland Security. And then they'll complain about America's adversaries spying on us or interfering in our elections as though they don't do the same shit to other countries.

>> No.19250488

>>19250475
I mean, those other countries also complaing about the US spying on them as they spy on you. Its part of the game.

>> No.19250514

>>19250411
Books about what?

>> No.19250522
File: 69 KB, 680x519, rememer me CIA.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
19250522

>>19250127
Thanks for posting this.
>>19250453
The idea that American people have true agency over their country is laughable. The US propaganda, just like any country seeps into all forms of media. This is not in defence of China. I just find it funny that Americans always claim their country can't be compared to China in terms of propaganda or authoritarianism when the U.S. is the go to example of a plutocracy in the World. American Propaganda in a way is ingenious in that they have fooled their population into holding this false sense of liberty where the reality is very different.

This video is quite sensational but gets off the point well enough.
And with everything don't believe people on imageboards. DYOR

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgKv8rrqIpU&t=101s

>> No.19250530
File: 90 KB, 1280x720, FBgy-Q5UYAYMVWt.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
19250530

>>19250319
I read recently that one of the top donors for a border wall project in Texas is Timothy Mellon, who is the ultra-rich grandson of Andrew Mellon, the Gilded Age industrialist and treasury secretary under Coolidge and Hoover (also a supporter of Mussolini). Tim Mellon was also a big Trump donor. And I can't even find a picture of this guy. So "politics" as such in the U.S. feels like a dispute between these people, and for everyone else, what distinguishes them is how they're mobilized to vote every four years -- which is why American election season feels like the Gangs of New York when Bill the Butcher kicks in the saloon door to round people up to Pokemon go to the polls:

https://youtu.be/dg8E6AEeVtI

The parties are not even real political parties as I think Europeans would understand them. Like, I'd read about somebody getting "expelled" by a political party in Europe. Like, what? Well, they have "members" of these parties, while being a "member" of the Democratic or Republican parties is just voting for them. Or party conventions in Europe will actually involve defining the party's agenda -- maybe it's more limited than I think. But the party conventions in the U.S. are pre-arranged, scripted shows. They don't even bother to uphold the party platform. Or maybe the parties here would be like "fronts" in other countries of different parties, business groups, unions, religious associations, ethnic groups, etc. etc. etc. Or maybe they're like corporations, with the Republicans having more of an MLM-type structure and Trump was successful because he merged his brand with it and took it over so he became the top of the pyramid, and conservative "activists" try to rise up or suck from the upward flow of money by recruiting other people into the scheme -- so it has a bubble and burst pattern.

They even hire failed actors to be talking heads like Candace Owens. Apparently her and some other minor MAGA celebs were poached from some hire-an-actor website. It's Hollywood politics. Obama, Trump... they're celebs, actors.

China has a Leninist structure. So the party is like a shadow organization that parallels via party cells every other institution in society depending on its size. They'll be embedded in the school system, the government (of course), the military (commissars / political officers), and even private businesses, and you have to be a party member -- vetted by the 12380 (the CPC Organization Department) -- to have a significant career (professor, director of a state-owned factory, etc.). This summer was interesting because it's the party anniversary so they went all out with the propaganda and expressing this thing as a very real and very powerful organization:

https://youtu.be/RBrW8eQIqSI

>> No.19250541

>>19250522
Why do zoomers insist on linking videos instead of essays or even blog posts

>> No.19250568

>>19250530
Kinda sounds like the US has a bottom-up structure, with the private sphere influencing the public sphere while in china its the opposite, at the same the CCP exists as this internal quasi-private body that is the head of the state structure.

The US parties are like corporations though. Still, I don't think if they were actual proper parties they'd be good though. Party politics isn't exactly something to be lauded.

>> No.19250590
File: 170 KB, 639x203, 583495834905.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
19250590

>>19250530
Ah, the Org Department is also known as the "Zhongzubu" for short which is a nice communist-style contraction that would be like the "ChiOrgDep" or something.

>> No.19250629

>>19250522
>The US propaganda, just like any country seeps into all forms of media. This is not in defence of China. I just find it funny that Americans always claim their country can't be compared to China in terms of propaganda or authoritarianism when the U.S. is the go to example of a plutocracy in the World. American Propaganda in a way is ingenious in that they have fooled their population into holding this false sense of liberty where the reality is very different.
Didn't deny that propaganda exists. But there's a big difference between an Oil company funding a news station which leads that news station to have more softball coverage v.s full state control. Issues with our media still doesn't disprove that Americans exercise agency over their government. In most democracies, including America's, more powerful interests and wealthy Americans will of course exercise more power on the state. I still think it's very much possible for American citizens to influence the government as we still do live in a democracy. Pretty sure for example many corporations did not want Trump to get elected because of his potentially destabilizing influence, and yet despite throwing money at all the other republican candidates he still won because he tapped into popular resentments..

>> No.19250648
File: 273 KB, 619x846, 654968450609546.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
19250648

>>19250568
It depends on how you look at it. This is from the South China Morning Post, and apparently Wang and some of these guys view the U.S. as essentially fascist in structure (which is funny because of how many people think China is fascist), because it's run like a corporate state. Some may disagree that this is what constitutes fascism, but they see it as a system in which every shareholder has a "vote," but everyone knows that a minority group of shareholders can group up and control the company.

You might argue that the North Atlantic empires as just being actually-successful fascism while the Germans and Italians failed at it. I read a story recently that German prisoners in WW2 who were housed in camps in Texas and given jobs working in fields because of wartime labor shortages were appalled at how black people (who they worked with in the fields) were treated. Like, fuck... we're actual Nazis and we're shocked at the racist exploitation going on around here. Marx:

>The profound hypocrisy and inherent barbarism of bourgeois civilization lies unveiled before our eyes, turning from its home, where it assumes respectable forms, to the colonies, where it goes naked.

>> No.19250681

if half you tards even read that book or just excerpts of it like i just did you'd realize most of your arguments aren't even relevant. for one thing, banning faggots and vidya doesn't mean the country is suddenly based and tradpilled, this new initiative exists to curtail an extreme cancer that has existed for a long time, i.e. chinks have an almost equally bad problem with urbanoid queers and soi people they are trying to get rid of.

when they introduce these rules, it's not like they can just disappear every single degenerate e-celeb overnight. so sure, there's a rule against it, but plenty of people are still going to do it, and will then deny that they are even breaking any rule which is up to interpretatoin. the point is gradual change.

>> No.19250685

>>19249977
>What I really don't get then after reading the article, is why they not just straight out ban social media

because it's one of the most powerful tools in the government's arsenal. baby, bathwater etc.

>> No.19250694

>>19250648
Are the Chicoms so ignorate they think a corporate state and corporactivism are the same thing? I'm willing to bet its just bullshit propaganda they feed the more smartass part of the population. The USSR leadership also didn't see the US as a fascist country despite them feeding this view to the public because they weren't stupid. The US leadership also didn't see the USSR as a sucessor enemy to nazi germany despite that being what they were telling the public.

>> No.19250801
File: 344 KB, 689x406, 5609346-094-506.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
19250801

>>19250453
>I don't deny there's pro-America propaganda. I'm not blind. Do you deny that the American people have some influence over their government at a local level? It's pretty ridiculous to me to act like the U.S state is as uniformly authoritarian and dystopi c as the CCP
You're responding to me, so I figured I should try to answer. Thing is, I don't actually know. Or maybe both are, they're just dystopian in different dimensions (fuck me I'm starting to sound like an anarchist). Like, my conservative friends here will be familiar with military recruitment ads, and the Chinese ones seem old-fashioned and authoritarian, but it's pretty straightforward stuff about "doing your duty," while the postmodern American ones say "I'm a lesbian mom and being in the military gives me a chance to express myself by operating a remote-controlled killbot."

But there's the more gung-ho stuff, too. There was a recent Marine ad where a guy is *living in a futuristic dystopian America* and he's so atomized and alienated he joins the Marines which is presented in this typically authoritarian way like a Chinese ad (which rules, it's very powerful):

https://youtu.be/bCjEV75F2tM

But he's fighting to defend that same dystopia! So what's more dystopian? I dunno. I think right-wing politics in America is kinda like that Marine ad, though.

>> No.19250847

>>19250801
Things don't need to be wrong, or be lies or be badly made to be propaganda. In fact, when its done well, when its based on truth and when its correct and factual, its the best propaganda. Read Bernays, the only difference between propaganda and marketing and advertising is that one is done by the government and the other is done by private people. Thats it. Its paper thin.

>> No.19250870
File: 110 KB, 1000x750, image-20150707-1277-tdivb2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
19250870

>>19250847
Nice. I've gotta check this out. I've never read it. Thx.

>> No.19250888

>>19250870
This and Machiavelli should be mandatory reading to anybody who's full of himself enough to open his mouth about politics. This and Machiavelli are 100 times more relevant to politics anywhere than any greek body builder or balding sweater wearing commie from europe.

>> No.19250925

>>19250801
The fact that propaganda exists doesn't make America a dystopia. America is incredibly wealthy across the board--even though there's high economic inequality--and is still democratic. If America was really as shitty as you're painting it, then why do so many people migrate here? As for the military ad, propaganda by various interests exists in every civilized society. If that's your measurement then every advanced society is dystopic.

>> No.19251009
File: 125 KB, 736x586, burgerpunk.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
19251009

>>19248667
>The issue with Americans is that they falsely believe that "freedom" for everything is good
hit the nail on the head

>> No.19251022

>>19250629
Trump was wildly popular amongst the capitalist class. I've read more than a few articles arguing for him as president purely based on his kindness to stock markets alone. I'm sure they didn't mind the cut of 14% off the corporate tax rate either.

>> No.19251034

>>19250925
>If that's your measurement then every advanced society is dystopic.
He finally gets it

>> No.19251049

>>19251022
Yeah but Trump wasn't the only one offering tax cuts to corporations and fellating the financial class. For US presidents thats just the status quo. But he was the one doing that AND introducing protectionist politics again into the economy and issues regarding US sovereignty over US corporations and reducing the importation of workers from abroad.

>> No.19251057

>>19250648
>Poltiburo Standing Committee member Wang Huning
Holy cow I thought this dude was just some theorist but he's extremely powerful, like one of the 7 most powerful people in China

>> No.19251064

>>19251057
Means he knows what he's doing.

>> No.19251088

>>19250694
The "it's literally fascism!!" claims are absurd to me. At this point anytime the state (any state, USA, China, whatever) exercises power people cry about fascism. To me fascism is the melding of a socialist state with a fierce nationalism, an dark take on Stalin's "socialism in one country." This is of course imperfect (Hitler and friends wouldn't be successful/real fascists), but in modern (post-WWII) dialogue it works. As no state has achieved socialism yet, discussions of fascism are moot. Perhaps 2050s China will be a fascist state, if all goes to plan.

>> No.19251105

>>19251088
I mean, if Hitler and co. were sucessful fascists I think things would have been a lot more different.

>> No.19251172

>>19251034
Okay have fun living in your utopia fantasy land. Not sure where you're getting this idea I'm naive to how shitty and punitive civilized society can be; I'm just not so obtusely cynical as to ignore the benefits either.

>> No.19251189

>>19251022
>Trump was wildly popular amongst the capitalist class
Was he? From what I recall early on in the primary most corporations favored the other moderate Republicans as Trump was a bit of a loose cannon. In the general I want to say support from corps was more evenly split between Clinton and Trump. But I'm not positive on the stats there

>> No.19251214
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19251214

Meh, I read the article a while ago, but I found this review to be more interesting:

https://angelanagle.substack.com/p/america-against-america
___________________________________
Americans have almost no belief in ghosts. Americans invent and conceive of many ghosts, probably more than any other country in the world, but do not believe in ghosts. Children have no concept of ghosts, and during Halloween, children dress up as all kinds of ghosts and move around the neighborhood.

American society is the least mysterious society. People grow up in this society with little mystery about any matter. This is an inseparable part of the American culture. Many peoples have a strong sense of mystery, such as some peoples of Africa, some peoples of Latin America, including some components of Western European culture. It is worth exploring what role mystery plays in the development of a society, or at least it can be a wall around many traditional ideas and traditional institutions.

[...]

Americans also have the least amount of mystery about man himself. Religious people know that the Bible says God made man. But society continues to break down the mystery surrounding man. It is common for doctors to open chest cavities and skulls and move around hearts and brains, and the difficulty is purely technical, with no conceptual element. Americans are most interested in transplanting artificial hearts. Americans have one of the highest number of IVFs in the world. Demystification, pushing to move Americans toward artificial people. Sex education in adolescence is also a product of non-mystification. The issue of sex is shrouded in mystery in many societies. In American society, sex became as common knowledge as oil and vinegar.

[...]

The fact that religion is so developed in the United States seems at odds with the highly developed science and technology of American society. This is a mystery of human rationality. In fact, Americans are very rational about religion, just as they are about science and technology.

Brilliant guy that Wang Huning.

>> No.19251236

>>19251214
I wonder if he meant "mystery" in a way or with a word with a slightly different meaning than the english word. I got the impression he's talking about something more specific than just "mystery".

>>blah blah blah I saw a discussion about china in which one of the guests. Logo Daedalus (lmao)
I sleep.

>> No.19251266

>>19250050
>a government that is more accountable
Democracy makes the government anything but accountable.

>> No.19251282

>>19250073
the problem is this mindset, that hardline feelings and care for what is "you(rs)" can be subverted.
well it can but when it cant then you die.


>The chinese are superior genetically. Put a single Chinese man in a city and hell have the population calm, the men suppressed and the women pregnant. Bow like your leaders.

>> No.19251303

>>19250925
>every advanced society is dystopic.
Yes. Point to one that isn't.

>> No.19251304

>>19251214
Idiotic, Americans invented Spiritualism.

>> No.19251329

>>19250050
Are you joking? America is more fascistic than China in 2021.

>> No.19251346

>>19250057

>They start from the presumption that the government is some other that exists above.

The fuck do you think "a government of the people, by the people, for the people" means?

???????

>> No.19251358

>>19251346
It means something americans don't see when they look at their federal government, for starters.

>> No.19251535

>>19251236
>I wonder if he meant "mystery" in a way or with a word with a slightly different meaning than the english word.
The word he used was "mystification" (神秘化).

>> No.19251548

>>19251346
What is baseless rhetoric?

>> No.19251556

>>19251346
A lie. Our government is an oligarchy, and has been for a very long time.
https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-27074746
Most countries are, actually.

>> No.19251588

>>19249581
I don't think anybody said they were new problems.

>> No.19251989

>>19248882
i can't wait til you starve next time they hack your pipelines

>> No.19252166

americans on suicide watch
But while Americans can, he says, perceive that they are faced with “intricate social and cultural problems,” they “tend to think of them as scientific and technological problems” to be solved separately. This gets them nowhere, he argues, because their problems are in fact all inextricably interlinked and have the same root cause: a radical, nihilistic individualism at the heart of modern American liberalism.

>> No.19252213
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19252213

Meanwhile, in the American system, “everything has a dual nature, and the glamour of high commodification abounds. Human flesh, sex, knowledge, politics, power, and law can all become the target of commodification.” This “commodification, in many ways, corrupts society and leads to a number of serious social problems.” In the end, “the American economic system has created human loneliness” as its foremost product, along with spectacular inequality. As a result, “nihilism has become the American way, which is a fatal shock to cultural development and the American spirit.”

>> No.19252231

>>19252213
Wow, he's just like me...
great minds think alike.
Feels good anons.

>> No.19252314

There are a few main implications I see with China going down this direction of making their society more socially conservative. One is that they acknowledge the limits of materialism which is unprecedented for a Marxist-Leninist country. It seems this guy is aware that technology and modernization inherently causes social deterioration no matter what, and this makes any sort of socialist organizing much more difficult. The West learned this more than anyone, it’s the whole reason communism never happened here although Marx predicted advanced economies would be the first to be socialist.

Secondly, if China’s Marxism is gonna be interpreted through this view, what does that make of the rest of the Left? They are the polar opposite of China. They support every consequence of capitalism and globalization, the same social degeneracy that China is actively combatting now. I think people have to come to a conclusion. Either China is the most authentic Marxist country in history or the least authentic. Either the blue-haired LGBT+++ BLM commie sex worker subhumans in the West are the true communists all along, or they’re really just dregs produced from the liberal system. There is no reconciliation between these 2 spectrums. To understand China, people have to pick one as the authentic revolutionaries.

>> No.19252315

>>19252314
Communism resolves the contradictions in capitalism, and fascism resolves the contradictions in communism.

>> No.19252322

>>19252314

Communism has taken place in several places.

>>19252315

There are no contradictions in capitalism.

>> No.19252326

>>19252322
>no contradictions
Liberalism, then. w/e

>> No.19252330
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19252330

>>19252322
>There are no contradictions in capitalism.
lol

>> No.19252336
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19252336

>>19251057
>Holy cow I thought this dude was just some theorist but he's extremely powerful, like one of the 7 most powerful people in China
Oh yeah. Now you get it. He's like the Chinese Suslov (look that guy up). But he's very low key and deep in the core so he doesn't talk to anyone outside "the inside." But if you watch their stuff he'll be lurking in the background. He's in the beginning:

https://youtu.be/aoVVDpU1StA

>> No.19252338

>>19252336
>Suslov
amoguslov

>> No.19252349
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19252349

>>19252338
Another example. Once you start keeping up with President Xi's on-the-spot inspection visits to museums and mushroom farms, you'll start to keep an eye out for Wang. It's like a game of Where's Waldo?

>> No.19252372

>>19249867
>>19250411
>>19249931
> sex incel lawyer sex sex incel cope book sex

you are like an NPC that's on the verge of breaking out of your programming

>> No.19252376

>>19252322
Go home tourist

>> No.19252386

>>19250411
oh look, I can copypasta my answer from that other thread:
I'm doing a PhD at a top hospital, I have twice as many publications as you and a published set of poems as well. As a side project fresh out of undergrad, while working fulltime, I optimized a particular protein of crucial interest to industry, improving its performance to the literal world-best at the time with no previous experience in that field. I speak four languages and I am also literate in three; I am currently learning Mandarin on top of that. I am not yet 25.
On that basis, and on the basis of also being an immigrant and having more perspective than you, I find myself fit to call you an idiot with no insight, especially since all of your bitch achievements are subject to nepotism and not the harsh reality of scientific publishing. Your entire retard skillset is a baby-tier version of what I do on a daily basis, with lower stakes. Neck yourself

>> No.19252432
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19252432

>>19252314
>Either the blue-haired LGBT+++ BLM commie sex worker subhumans in the West are the true communists all along, or they’re really just dregs produced from the liberal system. There is no reconciliation between these 2 spectrums. To understand China, people have to pick one as the authentic revolutionaries.
First of all, China's own particular system is not for export. It's called "socialism with Chinese characteristics." Second of all, you should read the section of this book on racism in the United States toward black people and indigenous people. He says the U.S. system is systemically racist and that Americans can be polite and respectful on the outside but despise other cultures in reality. "The days of the KKK are behind us, but we cannot say that they are gone. If society fails to find fundamental ways to improve the situation of blacks, it is likely to end up with more violent anti-black actions. It is a human weakness that when a problem cannot be solved, the most convenient option is to strongly oppose it." He also references Herbert Marcuse a lot who was a Frankfurt School theorist. So figure that out.

There's also a funny part where he runs across a table in NYC by a small communist group (the Socialist Workers Party, a Trot outfit) and he's piqued because there's the Communist Manifesto on display, and he starts to talk to the young woman behind the table. And he's disappointed, because the Trot girl doesn't think China is socialist. Secondly, no one else on the street gives a fuck about this table and just ignores it. But they talked for a few minutes, and he says the Trot was right about many things, but it doesn't matter because "the post-war socialist countries have encountered twists and turns of one kind or another, their economic development has lagged far behind that of the capitalist countries, so their overall appeal is not sufficient. The economic development of the capitalist countries, on the other hand, has produced an overwhelming appeal."

>Generally speaking, the public does not judge the merits of society from the point of view of institutions, structures, ideas, spirituality, human nature, etc., but from their own daily life, or from the gut, not from the brain. Because of the huge gap in economic and social development, organizations and ideas that advocate reforming the capitalist system will have no great impact in Western society. Therefore, American society also leaves them to their own devices. If one day the economic level between the East and the West is reversed, I am afraid that they will have to be regulated. In fact, we won't have to develop beyond them, just pull even, and the ideological battle may rise again. A friend says that this is a good point, and that with a few more serious recessions, there will be a market for radicals.

https://youtu.be/VkCZWlXGgXI?t=253

>> No.19252496

>>19252314
To put it another way though. Forget about what socialists or radicals should do in the United States. Instead, think about how China has been pulling even in some respects, and what is happening in the U.S.? For one, you've seen a popular, reactionary, ultra-pro-capitalist, anti-socialist, anti-communist and anti-Chinese demagogue thrust into power and his whose own JCS apparently goes behind his back to tell his Chinese counterpart that everything is okay because they might be worried this guy will provoke a military conflict to cling to power.

If you were a Chinese leader, and you were seeing all this go down, what would you think? How would you be preparing for the future? You'd probably be preparing for a war. I wouldn't recommend they start one, but what would you do? Walk around at a Trump rally and try to sell them on the Chinese model because it's more socially conservative than the LGBT+++ BLM commie sex worker subhuman left that you despise? LOL

You'd probably just get beat up.

>> No.19252502

I for one think it is stupid to see the degredation as the consequence of technological progress or individualism or liberalism. Rarely have I heard someone put the blame on political and economical centralisation. Human beings are fundamentally part of their environment. The environment is a direct reflection of himself. He should be for the largest part in control of his environment. Not some centralized government a 1000km away. Not some big company with a headquarter on the other side of the country. Instead we live in nations where you work in one city, live in another, don't even have to need to know your neighbours to get by in live. The problem in the modern world has nothing to do with values or spirit. It has everything to do with alienation with ones direct environment because of the process of centralization since the industrial age.

>> No.19252509

>>19252386
>the harsh reality of scientific publishing
Lmao, maybe if you were in physics or math. Other areas are a laughing stock.

>> No.19252514

>>19252432
>It is a human weakness that when a problem cannot be solved, the most convenient option is to strongly oppose it.
Strongly accept it*
Fixed that for him

>> No.19252527

>>19252509
The sort of work I do could see me held accountable if a clinical trial goes wrong, so we don't have the luxury

>> No.19252531

>>19252509
It's still actually hard to publish in those laughingstock areas. That's why I personally quit academia and became a freelance software engineer

>> No.19252534

>>19252496
The answer to that is easy. Just sow division in society

>> No.19252540

>>19252527
No, your managers are accountable and if you truly work at that level it is retarded that you dont have senior colleagues who double check and correct all the mistakes your junior ass makes. Don't act like your more than just a young employee, cause you are not.

>> No.19252543

>>19250140
Lucky you.

>> No.19252554

>>19252531
No its not, I am also in computer science. The level of papers that get published is downright hilarious even in my more technical field. Only in math journals have i seen levels that actually amount to something. Some social science publication that some of my friends in those areas have to read are just comical.

>> No.19252563
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19252563

>when you realise the chinese government has literal prodigies and people with long-term vision and photographic memory running it
>and when you realise who runs the US
we have no chance bros

>> No.19252622

>it's yet another thinly veiled Chinese shill thread on /lit/.
Chinese society has always been authoritative and will stay that way. The Chinese citizens might like to live their lives like some well fed livestocks with delusion of grandeur (like some amerimutts) but I'd certainly not enjoy living in that kind of society.

>> No.19252648

>>19252540
Yes, that's moreso what I meant. But the point is that you are a faggot who doesn't understand what it takes to regularly publish in Nature, let alone to be a PhD student at a high level. As for my manager, he is top of his field and has been cited around 18000 times, which is to say he is in the top 0.1% of his generation.
> just a young employee
just a young employee who would basically have to suffer a sudden injury to avoid a career beyond your wildest dreams, lmao
Whatever helps you cope you wageslave bitch

>> No.19252700

>>19248565
The solutions are being implemented as we speak, they are trying to co train western "culture" to make sure none of it rots china more than it did before, which imo is perfectly fine, maybe one day the west too can stop sucking it's own dick and focus of actual advancements.

>> No.19252719

>>19252648
You're talking about the biggest semi-pop science journal in the world. Of course I understand how difficult it is to get in there. But at the same time the format of research that they ask of you is a bit unrespectfull as a scientist. But you can't compare nature to the dozen of low quality journals in every field.
Good for you that you got a boss that has technical expertise. Most managers do not. Seems like you are employed at a place that actually makes you grow and cares about quality, most people are not.
I slave 16-24 hours of my week regretfully to earn a living. Luckily I dont need more because I own my property and dont have to pay rent. I dont dream of any careers, maybe when I was in my late teens, early twenties. But now I just try to live a respectable life and build a home for myself. If I could do my own stuff and work for myself that would be ideal. But to each his own.

>> No.19253044

Thing I have noticed Americans no longer believe in a soul. Look at their older works and doing whats best for the soul is paramount. while newer stuff disregards the idea entirely.

>> No.19253163

>>19249612
>losing the will to survive is perhaps an inevitable trait of modernity
this is the crux of the issue, of which I don't think there are currently any viable solutions. most people here are childishly naïve and somehow think that just getting the gays off of tv will return us to a traditional mode of life and reestablish all the structures that have been disintegrated.
There is no going back and there is currently no alternative. Despite that, I don't think we should despair, I believe there are undiscovered modes of human flourishing we are going to have to stumble around in the dark looking for. Unfortunately, whoever is driving the tic tacs isn't landing any time soon, so we're probably going to have to figure this out for ourselves.

>> No.19253180

>>19248212
>China's de Tocqueville
That's rich.

>> No.19253240

>>19248667
>They are keeping their "software" intact and not bending to poisonous Western ideologies, which rot their culture and distract their citizens.
We will see if this works, though if it does it has terrible implications for the west as the West would never do those things

>> No.19253263

>>19250453
>Do you deny that the American people have some influence over their government at a local level?
You actually believe they do?

>> No.19253275
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19253275

>>19252314
>Either China is the most authentic Marxist country in history or the least authentic.
Personally I go with most authentic since they are actually trying and it exposes the bourgeois self-hating western leftists

>> No.19253277

>>19252622
>but I'd certainly not enjoy living in that kind of society
implying

>> No.19253285

>>19253263
literal nutjobs of every variety are elected to local office all the time. you might just not be aware of what is going on in your community, but if you own a home and pay attention to what goes on, you'd realize that local government is a wild fucking ride. if it's being controlled by someone, they aren't doing a very good job.

>> No.19253368

>>19249977
Because the degeneration of society has been apparent since decades before social media? Really this post could only have been made by someone too young to remember the pre-internet world.

>> No.19253774

>>19253275
Wouldn't them support the cubans for being internationalist, since marxism is inherently internacionalist?

>> No.19254139
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19254139

>>19253774
You would think so, but any somewhat successful Marxist State at some point leans into their Nationalism and BTFOs the internationalist factions as traitors

>> No.19254166

>>19253285
>literal nutjobs of every variety are elected to local office all the time
In irrelevant positions
>but if you own a home and pay attention to what goes on
My county is being fought between the Establishment GOP and the Establishment Democrats — Regardless of the fact that even if an outsider got in they will just be frozen out and cucked out of all political changes they could use.
> if it's being controlled by someone, they aren't doing a very good job.
No shit, the competent elite were from the Post WW2 generation, and they are dying of old age now with their Millennial and Gen X heirs too retarded to keep things running. That is why the country is collapsing now that they have almost complete control but are not competent in governing.

>> No.19254174

>>19252432
This still doesn’t answer anything. You literally just made the disparity more clear, a socialist party in America told a CCP member to his face that “China isn’t really socialist.” That’s the point. American leftists consider themselves to be the true socialists and revolutionaries when all their views are espoused by the biggest institutions, NGOs, mass media organizations and popular culture as a whole. It doesn’t matter if Wang points out that America is racist. Nobody except American conservatives argue that it isn’t. That doesn’t mean Wang is gonna side with the leftists who think he’s a fraud because his country is too market oriented or too socially conservative.

>> No.19254191

>>19254139
>>You are an Argentinian.
Damn, you can feel the disappointment.

>>19254166
Local positions are probably more relevant to you than anything happening at the federal level.

>> No.19254391

>>19254174
>That’s the point. American leftists consider themselves to be the true socialists and revolutionaries when all their views are espoused by the biggest institutions, NGOs, mass media organizations and popular culture as a whole.
Well one group is the captured controlled opposition of a electoral system of a declining Imperial State and the other group controls the second strongest country on the planet

Considering the complete disparity of success, why would anyone outside of the declining Imperial Power itself even give the western leftists any attention at this point?

>> No.19254431

>>19254391
I don't know if I'd necessarily call maoist CCP members 'controlled opposition', but you make a good point.

>> No.19254461

>>19254391
They aren't "captured", they're controlled by their supposed enemies and accept it, after all, all they're gotten is what the liberals they claim to oppose let them have. Plus, even Machiavelli wrote that you can be near to your enemies so you can take power from them in the future, betray them, influence them from the same side etc Its like the literal commies in the US 2020 election telling people to vote for Biden because they saw him as a "weaker" opponent compared to Trump.

>> No.19254547

>>19254461
Or perhaps, hear me out, these people aren’t really communists. They’re leftists who take the implications of liberalism to their natural conclusion, complete liberation of the individual and the dissolution of all societal constraints. This is the process that Wang is trying to fight against in China, so how could it be that the same people who support this degeneracy in the West also call themselves communists yet the actual communist country is rejecting it? Western leftists are not communists or Marxists, that’s how. And if they are, they follow a substantially different interpretation that certainly isn’t materialistic, rather it’s morally idealistic

>> No.19254569

>>19254547
I mean, go tell that to the commies themselves. By your definition, nobody except the Chinese Communist Party is communist. Not even Cuba, communist guerrilas in the jungle that harvest cocaine using slave labor, not even the western european communist parties and eastern european communists.

I'd almost agree with it, but isn't that too much? At that point, what does communism even mean?

>> No.19254918
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19254918

>>19248212
Reading the article what struck me was how much I agree with the young Wang Huning, and how little I agreed with the older version, that is perhaps a tad bit worrying as I might come to walk the same path.

Wang Huning seems a very insightful and intelligent man, who understands that society is built from below rather from above. That is why his turn to advocate top down policy seems so odd, it seems as something he advocates for out of desperation rather than reason. America will descend further into hell, as will the rest of the west i am sure. But the solution on both a personal AND political plane is clear to me is cultural and based in self. WE have to change, and rekindle tradition and community.

Because institutions government and similar will surely collapse, something needs to pick up the pieces and build a new world. This will be a new grassroots movement of rejuvenation and community. Hopefully the collapse of institutions wont be as painful as it could be.

>> No.19255053

>>19252563
Here those people run our companies. It’s why the power centers are shifting. With this mindset, the most important role of gov is just the maintenance of military and the safe currency / financial structure it produces.

>> No.19255366

>>19254918
My personal assumption of the discrepancies between early Wang and later Wang's policies is the fundamental need to tackle 2 inevitable hard problems in China's future, that of war and climate change. I think many would agree that the likeness of China entering a full scale war in the near future is incredibly high, and the global issue that is climate change has much geopolitical ramifications as it's uncertain, not just how badly affected China would be, but as well as how badly affected it would be as compared to it's peers. 50 years from now, would it be San Francisco that sinks to the sea first or Shanghai? Even if war doesn't break out, China physically cannot avoid a crisis that will shake it's foundation to it's core. Thus, with how liberalism besides democracy has basically taken hold of much of modern China as mentioned in the article, I believe that Wang is quite skeptical if a liberal society can survive such a crisis without collapsing, hence this desperation which is basically him preparing the nation for the future by preemptively shaping it into one that wouldn't need a good economy to survive but purely on it's software.

>> No.19255392

>>19255053
That "mindset" is just the mindset the US has always had towards its federal government. If you asked americans if the federal government should be limited to foreign relations and the military, many would agree with you.

>> No.19255474

>>19253774
Marxism is. Mao was pretty fucking clear that Maoism is just China doing what China has always been, though.

>> No.19255492

>>19255474
Wasn't Maoism also internationalist? Didn't he come up with the global village model and such?

>> No.19255501

Terrible article. Imagine the type of person that would find this garbage insightful.

>> No.19255509

>>19255492
A Chinaman? Lying about his intentions? Operating according to a rigid internal friend-enemy distinction? Why, who had ever heard of such a thing?!

>> No.19255521

>>19255509
I mean, politicians and political writers, much less communist ones, making shit up and lying is just par for the course but then there wouldn't be any discussion would there?

>> No.19255558
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19255558

it really is about to become the era of the chang if they can reverse their demographic decline lmao, i would say the best thing about the US is it will be a great lesson for future peoples on what a disaster materialistic liberal redditry was. somebody needed to do it. in a single generation, the US went from prosperous post-war boomers to a wasteland of property-less, alienated and autistic sociopaths and violent brown people. it will be like the failure of the USSR but for internationalist libs instead of communism.

daily reminder that learning mandarin isn't the impossible task it's played out to be, and john cena is fluent (he learned it to make better PR with chinks and spread wrestling there) so if he can do it, so can you.

>> No.19255561

>>19255492
>>19253774
>>19254139
>>19253275
While Mao's autism is kind of wrong here, due to the fact how close the latin America cultures and how calling them internationalist for this while technically true is also kind of retarded, being in a civilization that is so alien to the west and is as diverse and complex, he is right that communist internationalism makes little sense whether it be the struggle against enemies or the many different details of how their communism is run.

>> No.19255566

>>19255492
Maoism was importantly third worldist in its internationalism and viewed the USSR as one more white imperialist power, this was the root ideological divide of the sino-soviet split. Of course this was encouraged by the USA . In this aspect you see the surprising (unless you know better) connections between the American government's support for european decolonization and maoist third worldism.

>> No.19255570

>>19255366
>and climate change.
THIS
I don't understand why people aren't realizing that the only smart political thinkers are the ones which are planning for climate change. It's an existential threat.

>> No.19255603

>>19255561
Latin American cultures aren't that close to each other. There's a reason they don't get along on that side of the border.
t. Brazilian.

>>19255566
I was always curious about this part, thanks for explaining.

>> No.19255608

>>19255558
Studying and living in a foreign empire has already been refuted by Zhang Yongle
>[...] [W]hen I sought out the reason for my laziness, I decided it was because I had studied abroad. Today people all know about the advantages of studying abroad, but they don’t know about the disadvantages, which are too many to mention. I list a few below:

>Fourth, life is dry and boring, you don’t have friends or family, and you can’t sit around every day talking about the meaning of life. With time, you wind up really lonely, which makes you appreciate the vitality of life in China. When you come back, you’re like a bird let out of a cage, and your only urge is to fly. Who wants to study? Too bad.

>Fifth, trying to think in a foreign language is like trying to scratch an itch through your boots, and your knowledge level declines considerably. I believe that people are at their most intelligent when thinking in their native language; when thinking in a foreign language, even if your level is pretty good, your ability is still considerably diminished. This is not only a question of IQ. Heidigger said: Language is the home of existence, and we can only explore existence through language. When speaking in a foreign language you cannot communicate true feelings, which means that there is always a certain distance between what is spoken and what is understood—you can’t really get to people. Even worse is that, the longer you speak a foreign language, the less appreciation you have for your own native language, which means that even if you go back to thinking in your native tongue, your appreciation is not as great as before. To my mind, this is the greatest of the harms of studying abroad. This harm means that for those who study abroad, the depth and penetration of their theoretical imagination is greatly reduced. If in academic terms we are completely adequate, but in human terms cannot move people, then what’s the point of studying abroad?

It's better to stay in your own country where you can participate in the dynamic challenges first-hand, rather than experiencing it all as a tourist looking in from the outside. The collapse of Western Civilization is going to be a period of great opportunity for philosophers and would-be reformers in Western countries.

>> No.19255617

>>19253368
You're right but banning social media globally and jailing all attempts to rebuild it would be one hell of an improvement. Smartphones and social media are the two most horrible and damaging things that ever happened to humanity and there's a lot of overlap between the two.

>> No.19255621

>>19255608
don't care hate americans

>> No.19255622

>>19255617
A bit dramatic isn't it? But banning social media would be very, very hard to actually put in motion. People would just make something similar afterwards. You'd have to cut down the internet.

>> No.19255625

>>19255622
>People would just make something similar afterwards.
>and jailing all attempts to rebuild it
Yes it's fascist, w/e. China could definitely do it.

>> No.19255627

>>19255608
>The collapse of Western Civilization is going to be a period of great opportunity for philosophers and would-be reformers in Western countries.
We are trying to *prevent* the collapse of western civilization, thank you very much

>> No.19255649

>>19255627
>we

who?

>> No.19255656

>>19255570
It's only smart in the sense that the people who have power and are preparing for climate change are geniune idealists, for the worse will happen after these old men die and only the real nationalists or even more rare true humanitarians would help the next generation to survive beyond their own graves.

>> No.19255674

>>19255656
Well, I assume the nationalist streak in Chinese politics is enough to motivate them to care about the future. America needs that when it comes to climate change.

>> No.19255696

>>19255625
Ridiculous shilling. Sad that people fall for this.

>> No.19255718

>>19255696
I'm not shilling anything, I just think social media is a cancer. This AI driven shit shouldn't be allowed to exist.

>> No.19255740

>>19255718
China has their own version of the same shit. And the shilling is obvious.

>> No.19255746

>>19255740
>China has their own version of the same shit.
I mean all social media, not just Western. I said "China could do it" in the sense that China could factually ban social media because China is a totalitarianism. I don't know if it would be successful or not. Stop being a schizo.

>> No.19255771

Kill yourselves, chink shills.

>> No.19255804
File: 420 KB, 791x846, ocean life in the old sailing ship days chinaman passage.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
19255804

>>19248667
I agree it's pretty based but they're still a cargo cult. They come here and take photos of the outside of buildings, build things that look like it, and wonder why it falls down. Their culture is of corner-cutting, lying, swindling, and criminal negligence.

>> No.19255834

>>19248377
I have. It's a quick read and an interesting look into the Chinese perspective on America. The article OP Screenshoted does a good job summarizing the whole thing.

>> No.19256029

>>19248895
thanks, anon

>> No.19256274

>>19249736
>The media pushes people to get cosmetic surgery
When will this meme end? The reality that beautiful people are treated better in every way by everybody pushes people to get cosmetic surgery.

>> No.19256288

>>19250017
This is correct about the intents but not the results, American globalism accelerated the decline of the American empire.

>> No.19256299

>>19256274
Kim Kardashian looks like a fucking pig but she popularized plastic surgery just by the media covering her all the time, mostly because of her family's influence.

>> No.19256752
File: 164 KB, 1080x1266, 1634433206402.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
19256752

>>19255627
The cope is almost painful to witness

>> No.19256759

>>19255771
Not an argument, enjoy your graveyard of western society

>> No.19256851

>>19248565
So tired of lazy halfwit readers like you who don't read for the perspective but only for "proposed solutions". If you want a magic fix-all then propose a solution your goddamn self.

>> No.19256912

Wang Huning has been the chief political strategist for Xi. Wang doesn't understand anything. All of his stuff come from his Chinese inferiority complex that keeps goading him to provoke the West, so that the CCP can obtain legitimacy of its rule from Chinese population. But his grand strategy failed completely.

>> No.19257259

>>19256752
I WILL save the West. If I need to study and implement Mao Zedong Thought to do so, so be it. But I will not let this civilization collapse.

>> No.19257900

>>19249578
Would it be possible for you to link Huning's work, translated or untranslated? I'm having trouble tracking it down on the sites I usually use

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