/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.19316644]

Reminder that there has been 30 years of nonstop coping over this book and no one has been able to disprove his thesis

[Anonymous No.19316751]

reminder that liberal democracy recently got btfo in afghanistan and it will be only a little while till china takes over the world

[Anonymous No.19316761]

>>19316751
>Afghanistan
>Liberal
>Democracy

[Anonymous No.19316767]

>>19316751
The news of the fall of Kabul literally reminded me what happiness is.

[Anonymous No.19316780]

>>19316644
Liberal democracy has been on decline globally for about a decade now. I still remember when Belarus was the "last dictatorship in Europe", now there's like six and faith in democracy has reached record lows. Outside of Europe it's even worse.
Genuinely can't think of a book that's aged worse desu.

[Anonymous No.19316784]

>>19316751
Good.

[Anonymous No.19316871]

>>19316780
t. didn't read the book.

Fukuyama doesn't say we can go back to previous states, just that we won't come with anything new after liberal democracy. The book has always been hated mostly by socialists who believe next time will actually work.

[Anonymous No.19316883]

>>19316644
test

[Anonymous No.19317008]

>>19316780
He didn't claim the whole world would embrace liberal democracy, he said that there's no higher stage of political development. communism won't happen and the masses will socially liberalize over time. anyone with a brain who looks at the world today and the spread of "woke" ideology knows that he is correct.

[Anonymous No.19317023]

>>19317008
Wokeness is the beginning of a race war. What part of that has to do with liberal democracy, as it originated in the late 18th century?

[Anonymous No.19317031]

>>19317023
>race war
Only in your /pol/ echo chamber.

[Anonymous No.19317040]

>>19317031
Where do you see "equity" ending exactly?

[Anonymous No.19317057]

>>19316751
Reminder that Fukuyama's thesis is that liberal democracy represents the "end of history" in the sense of being the final stage of historical development. He beleives that it's the best system for making sure we all feel hecking cute and valid. His thesis isn't so much not so much historical as it is meta-historical.

[Anonymous No.19317058]

>>19317031
What part of physical aggression of one group against another for political purposes isn't war?

Leaving your wife's boyfriend aside, what do you consider to be politically liberal? Equal rights for all? Does that mean one race pays for everything?

Here's a gentle example, one that won't make you cry. Can a Chinese guy wear lederhosen but a German guy not wear a Manchu jacket without being accused of cultural appropriation? Is this freedom? Or is freedom only freedom when it conforms to a specific racial-political policy?

"Oh, but liberal democracy has nothing to do with freedom or equality."
Cool. That's why I'm on Team Taliban.

[Anonymous No.19317104]

>>19317023
the whole point of woke ideology is to increase inclusion into globalism and liberal capitalism. that's the whole reason all the language revolves around "diversity" and "representation." new demographics produced from the effects of liberal democracy (LGBT, immigrants, decadent minority groups, etc) are superseding the established demographics of society. it's literally just another iteration of civil rights activism coming from our institutions which is all very much liberal even if it contradicts itself. but that's just the problem with liberalism as a whole, it's incoherent and paradoxical.

[Anonymous No.19317111]

>>19316644
>saying something Nietzsche already said
Wow dude so profound

[Anonymous No.19317145]

>>19317104
That's because it's political entropy.

Its advocates point to history and say, in so many words, that good is destined to triumph over evil; but if you question them about God or the cosmos or the "Providence" of the 19th century, then they immediately turn into relativists. Neither side wants to believe that leftism is entropy, because that would deprive them of their sense of personal control. But that's what we're witnessing. The dissolution of Western civilisation, or at least Anglo civilisation.

[Anonymous No.19317176]

>>19317145
Yes, but this dissolution is derived from internal factors. It's an implosion of the system, and that system is liberalism which there's no alternative for. Fukuyama is wrong that Liberalism is remotely sustainable but it's still accurate to say that nothing else will challenge it. Liberalism will only die by the hands of Liberalism

[Anonymous No.19317183]

>>19317058
Your idiotic notions of race and culture are simply distortions. You're superimposing stupid ideas on general societal phenomena that have little to no relation to skin color.

[Anonymous No.19317193]

>>19316780
>now there's like six
????

Polish or Hungarian attempts to win back a shred of self-governance from the EU does not make them dictatorships.

[Anonymous No.19317203]

>>19317040
Not him, but I think it will be a Yugoslavia style civil war and breakup of the USA. I am looking into Rwandan real estate and residency for a reason.

[Anonymous No.19317207]

>>19316644
Is this meme book really still taken seriously after the fall of Kabul?

[Anonymous No.19317277]

>>19316644
lol no
Fukuyama himself has backtracked on it in the face of both technological and social development over the past 30 years

[Anonymous No.19317345]

>>19316644
Because liberal democracy is not the "end of history", it's obviously some form of centralized authoritarianism.
>b-but we went from feudalism to democracy!
Fukuyama says that there can be 10000 years of monarchy between now and the future and liberal democracy will be still the end of history. As such the fact that humans went from mostly feudalism to democracy doesn't mean much. That's just Fukuyama's own bias in favour of post-war Amerishart government speaking.

[Anonymous No.19317486]

The real end of history is National Socialism.

[Anonymous No.19317493]

National Socialism is the completion of the German Idealist project

[Anonymous No.19317515]

>>19316751
reminder that the west is gonna resurge in the next few decades and curb-stomp china

[Anonymous No.19317537]

>>19316644
One of the greatest books ever written, Fukuyama is a genius. No one will ever disprove his thesis because he's right. Constitutional democracy is the final form of government. Small periods of rollback, like the Interwar, the late 40s, and the post-Cold War era have only been followed by massive gains for democracy.

Soon enough, the free world will find itself in a diametric, all-consuming struggle with CCP China for the sake of the world. The burden is great but we will bear it heartily and achieve democratic preeminence for this century.

We have a world to win.

[Anonymous No.19317570]

>>19317537
Democracy is gay as hell though.

[Anonymous No.19317696]

>>19316644
Liberal democracy has several inherit contradictions. First, the support for property rights undermines democracy as returns on capital inevitably lead to a small elite controlling much of a society's wealth. This has generally been the norm, with redistribution only occuring due to war (external threat) or revolt or the threat of revolt (internal threat). Wealthy elites then have both an incentive to undermine a meritocratic system, and the means to do so.

Second, liberal democracy is the result of the synthesis of many prior ideologies. Socialist policies (universal education, no child labor, etc.) became mainstream in response to rising discontent over the social question. Nationalism and patriotism became pillars of liberal democracy as well. First, because nationalism was a powerful tool to use against monarchs, and second because it created a common identity which fostered acceptance of socialist policies and redistribution (which were themselves necessary to avoid class war).

But nationalism doesn't work as the cement that bonds your society when 1:8 people were born abroad and only moved to your country for better earnings and gibs. Mass migration is destroying support for the welfare state across the West. At the same time, socialist controls on capital are collapsing due to the ability of multinational corporations to operate outside (transcending) the Westphalian state system. Liberal democracy is also unable to deal with climate change because it takes self determination as a starting point for legitimacy, which precludes solutions that effect the entire world. But global warming is a global problem that demands global enforcement (and arguably the power of mega corps is too).

Fukayama should have read more of the Hegel that inspired him. He should have seen the new contradictions coming.

[Anonymous No.19317723]

>>19316751
Reminder that China has 1.4 billion people and a country facing desertification

[Anonymous No.19318056]

>>19317058
You think being accused of cultural appropriation is an infringement on your freedom? And you expect any response other than mockery?
You're a whiny little bitch. No one is coming for your freedom to say nigger on the Internet.

[Anonymous No.19318264]

>>19317183
>race = skin color
love when I can easily filter out retards

[Anonymous No.19319617]

>>19316751
good

[Anonymous No.19319655]

>>19317183
Everyone laugh at this science denier
>>19317696
Making money is a skill and thus is a Pareto distribution.
>>19318056
What the fuck else would it be tankie.
When all the niggers go back to speaking in clicks and wearing grass skirts you can complain about cultural appropriation.

[Anonymous No.19319713]

This book just reflects Fukuyama’s lack of imagination and vision. He’s what we would call a man of his time. Several men have maid similar claims about other topics.
>everything worth inventing has already been invented
>everything to be discovered has already been discovered
>man will never fly
>Rome will last forever
>the third Reich will last a thousand years
All of those men were wrong. They were fundamentally limited by the information that was available during their time. They couldn’t think outside the box, just like Fukuyama can’t.
It’s up to men who are ahead of their time to prove them wrong.

[Anonymous No.19319772]

>>19318264
I'm sorry. You're a cultist and believe in race as Platonic forms. You're too smart for me, I guess.

>>19319655
>Everyone laugh at this science denier
Show me a single scientific study that binds race and genetics to concrete social phenomena as its sole determining factor that isn't just random infographs you've gathered from /pol/.

[Anonymous No.19320020]

>>19317515
>reminder that the west is gonna resurge in the next few decades and curb-stomp china

[Anonymous No.19320125]

>>19320020
don't underestimate the ability of the united states to fuck your shit up

[Anonymous No.19320248]

>>19320125
>don't underestimate the ability of the united states to fuck your shit up
Yeah they sure fucked up those Pashtun goat herders. Oh wait…
>>19317008
>he said that there's no higher stage of political development.
>anyone with a brain who looks at the world today and the spread of "woke" ideology knows that he is correct.
Do you seriously think the spread of wokism isn’t a desperately astroturfed effort to destroy any meaningful culture that would get in the way of the plans of the powerful? To suppress the very soul of humanity?
It’s like you just accept that something is true simply because the powerful want it to be true.
>>19317058
>mahnigga.mp4

>>19318056
>No one is coming for your freedom to say nigger on the Internet
Not everyone is an am*rican you absolute retard. The people who are more and more successfully accomplishing what you speak of outside of Am*rica will surely come for you, too.

[Anonymous No.19320270]

>>19320248
>Pashtun goat herders.
Living on stone age tech and opium, is your definition of success?

>Am*rica
It's almost like it's your G-d.

[Anonymous No.19320271]

>>19320248
>Yeah they sure fucked up those Pashtun goat herders.
implying the whole point of invading afghanistan and iraq wasn't to surround iran which we don't need to do anymore since biden is bringing back obama's nuke deal which free the us up to pivot to china

[Anonymous No.19320287]

ITT: many and several poltard tourist newfag semi-retarded illiterate memespeakers who can read books but cannot comprehend language

[Anonymous No.19320491]

>>19316780
>faith in democracy has reach record lows
only among the western political class, who are only happy to govern by emergency decree now

[Anonymous No.19320497]

>>19317345
even contemporary authoritarian governments feel compelled to present the image of liberal democracy

[Anonymous No.19320627]

>>19320497
Lest they the US riles up their populace it just bombs them. What's their native pressure for democracy?

[Anonymous No.19320641]

>>19320627
Damnit.
>Lest the US riles or bombs them

[Anonymous No.19320652]

>>19320497
'cept China

[Anonymous No.19320680]

it’s funny how cross-site tourists and peddlers of the modern metanarrative always start sperging over some insignificant underage board instead of addressing the arguments presented

[Anonymous No.19320826]

>>19316644
Has anyone actually read this book? I did and it wasn't nearly as 'gloating' as i imagined it to be. it almost laments the fact that we are now in an area of history in which the Last Man has triumphed.

[Anonymous No.19321086]

>>19320826
It’s not triumphant. Fukuyama has constantly admitted that liberal democracy is very flawed but ultimately he supports it as the most peaceful system for humanity. That doesn’t mean there’s glory or greatness in liberal democracy, just passive comfort.

[Anonymous No.19321096]

>>19319772
Culture is downstream of race. Use your eyes

[Anonymous No.19321993]

>>19320652
>what is the annual party congress

[Anonymous No.19322042]

>>19316644
He's an illiterate faggot. Nobody *bothered* to disprove his thesis because of how blatantly stupid it is.

[Anonymous No.19322279]

>>19319655
>Making money is a skill and thus is a Pareto distribution.
>Making money is a skill
>Making money is a Pareto distribution
you're so fucking clueless. take some basic statistics course and stop using words you don't understand.

>>19317696
good post

[Anonymous No.19322619]

>>19320826
I didn't read the book but I did read the essay. Fukuyama gets flak but actually in that time and place someone needed to put forward the argument. I don't think Fukuyama believed it, I think he established it as a challenge to other theorists - "if this isn't right, why?" It's a very useful analytical tool and Fukuyama deserves praise for his service to the puzzle of the 20thC.

[Anonymous No.19322648]

>>19319713
sure, but it's been 30 years and he's not wrong yet. there have been some regressions, but he never said there wouldn't be. can you even envision a new development, let alone see it put into practice? all these critiques of fukuyama always end up criticizing liberal democracy, or pointing out setbacks. But they never point out any NEW developments. it really is the end.

[Anonymous No.19322707]

>>19322648
>But they never point out any NEW developments. it really is the end.

This is what everyone misses. We can spend all day pointing out the problems with liberal democracy and how incoherent it is. We can talk about all the various contradictions and social degenerations going on today, but none of it matters. All that matters is whether or not there is an alternative to this, and right now there isn't. Even if liberalism declines it will probably just be reinstated again (this already happened after WW2). Nobody has provided another system, which means that our cosmopolitan global market and liberal culture probably is the end of the road for modern political development.

[Anonymous No.19322787]

>>19322648
Xi Jinping Thought.

Has all the legs that Fukayama describes in the origins of political order.

1. Rule of law. Billionaires aren't immune to prosecution in China like they are in the West. Yes, it is far from perfect, but Xi has been going hard on corruption. You don't have instances like the West, where a film maker ass rapes as 12 year old girl and then gets to live free because he has rich friends, or a billionaire notorious for providing underaged girl to elites "commiting suicide" before making a deal with prosecutors while the camera in his jail cell mysteriously short circuits and every guard on shift "falls asleep." Also no nationwide riots. Far lower prison population than the US despite far larger population.

2. Strong Centralized state. Check. Stronger in relation to business interests and elites than liberal democracies already.

3. Independent bureaucracy. Not perfect, but again, at least at parity with the West. You can't really imagine total capture of a Chinese regulator by big business the way it happens in the US (see the US losing almost as many lives as the Vietnam War for decades because the FDA got on board with big pharma selling opiates). Weakness there is the CCP having too much direct control on agencies, but this is improving.

4. Accountable government. Fukayama doesn't look closely at how this works. Yes, some form of democracy ensures accountability, and forces changes in leadership if the leaders preform bad. But obviously direct democracy is a fucking train wreck. Direct elections of the executive are a shit show. You have uninformed retards electing literal memes. The US just had a senile reality TV star business faliure grifter leading the country by Tweet for four years. Their only option to dump him was another senile old man.

In every comparison of elected mayors and county commissioners versus professional appointed city and county managers, the appointed managers preform better and commit less corruption. Chinese leaders are selected by a well informed committee, an ideal set up, and lower level party members are polled for input. This is superior to a giant popularity contest, especially when mass migration means that a huge swath of the electorate won't have a strong connection to your country and sees it mainly as a path to gibs/ an evil white oppressor.

[Anonymous No.19322800]

>>19316871
We clearly can as demonstrated by the 2nd american civil war. Dont worry im from the future.

[Anonymous No.19323027]

>>19322787
I had a dream the other night.

In it a great red Dragon slumbered. It had been asleep for a long time, but now it was rising from its slumber. It was vast and powerful.

As the Dragon began to wake, I saw an Eagle soaring in from the East above. I could tell the Eagle feared the Dragon; I could sense its jealousy. And the Eagle dangled a glowing Red ball from its mouth. The Ball had once possessed power and honor, but I could see its magics were spent.

But the Eagle, once a mighty king of the sky, was old and tattered. And though it tried to scratch at the Dragon, it could do not but stir it to waking faster.

Then the Eagle cried and others joined it. I saw a great Elephant rise in the West to the Eagles call. And behind that, a collection of wretched and old animals. An old Lion, once proud but now led on a leash by the Eagle, and smaller still behind the Lion came its small and aged children, a Moose and a Kangaroo. Then a great graying Falcon came. Last came a once powerful, now decaying Frog.

Then from the North came a growl. A huge white Bear was stirring.

But the Dragon showed no fear. It had awoken. It's time was now. And the great Red Dragon burst into the air and showed its might, ready to fight the other animals.

But no fight came.

The Elephant, young and lacking confidence reared back and began to defecate upon his streets in terror as the Dragon approached.

The Eagle, shocked by the Dragon's power dropped the Red Ball. The Dragon swooped in to catch it and keep it safe, and at its tender touch, the Red Ball regained its magic and began to glow like the Rising Sun again.

The Dragon turned North to the Bear, but found it slumped over, comatose in drink, the reek of Vodka billowing of it.

It faced West to the Lion and its Moose and Kangaroo, and to the Falcon and the Frog, but saw they were still. They had passed away, their lives over. And the Dragon saw in disgust that Black Ants swarmed over their corpses and devoured them.

Then the Dragon turned East to the prideful Eagle who had struck from jealousy. But he saw the Eagle lying on the ground, crying in pain as it was beaten by a Blue Donkey and a Red Elephant, and its crown of 50 White Feathers was torn asunder, and brown mud flooded over its corpse from the South.

And the Dragon was sad, for it new what glories these creatures had once been. And though they had despised the Dragon, the Dragon mourned their passing.

[Anonymous No.19323036]

And lo, I heard a trumpet, and a great multitude proclaiming "THE MANDATE OF HEAVEN HAS BEEN RESTORED."

Then the Great Red Dragon shown with burning light, and he flew to the young Elephant and taught him courage. He flew to the dead animals of the West and revived them, and gave them generous gifts, including a wonderful Belt. Then the Dragon took away the Bear's vodka, and the Bear grew strong again. And last, though it had meant him harm, the Dragon slew the Blue Donkey and Red Elephant and lifted the Eagle up.

And all the animals were strong once again and acknowledged the leadership of the Dragon. They knew his rule would be kind and just. And the world knew peace.

[Anonymous No.19323284]

>>19323027
>>19323036
This is worth at least an extra 20 Yuan and 15 minutes off a 16 hour shift.

[Anonymous No.19323295]

>>19316644
Fukuyama didn't like his conclusion, he said the liberal world is boring and evil, but it's the most certain means of achieving comfort and safety so it has become the final form of history.

[Anonymous No.19323299]

>>19323036
>>19323027
I feel like if one wants to write a political allegory it ought to be a bit less blatant in nature.

Also:
>and at its tender touch, the Red Ball regained its magic and began to glow like the Rising Sun again.
>He flew to the dead animals of the West and revived them, and gave them generous gifts, including a wonderful Belt. Then the Dragon took away the Bear's vodka, and the Bear grew strong again. And last, though it had meant him harm, the Dragon slew the Blue Donkey and Red Elephant and lifted the Eagle up.
China is not going to save you. If the West wants to be saved it has to do it by itself.

[Anonymous No.19323323]

>>19323299
It always strikes me as pretty funny that a lot or biblical prophecy is as blatant as this is, clearly about contemporary cultures, and yet evangelicals never cease convincing themselves that the passages must refer to contemporary American politics and their culture war.