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/lit/ - Literature

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19336721 No.19336721 [Reply] [Original]

How does Zapffe compare to Nietzsche?

I feel like they parallel each other in their analysis of how we confront our awareness but Zapffe doesn't offer a solution/chance of redemption.

>> No.19336741
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19336741

I’ve never used his typeface before

>> No.19336898

>>19336721
Zapffe's conclusion is rational and unable to be argued with. Embrace anti-natalism

>> No.19337091

>>19336721
A much better comparison would be between Zapffe and Wagner.

>> No.19337101

>>19337091
Can you elaborate on how they're similar, anon? As far as I can tell Zapffe is very unique in his view, although I hope to reject it.

>> No.19337141
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19337141

>>19337091
Holderlin is better than both

>> No.19337153

>>19337101
>The actual Art−work, i.e. its immediate physical portrayal, in the moment of its liveliest embodiment, is therefore the only true redemption of the artist; the uprootal of the final trace of busy, purposed choice; the confident determination of what was hitherto a mere imagining; the enfranchisement of thought in sense; the assuagement of the life−need in Life itself.

>Only from Life, from which alone can even the need for her grow up, can Art obtain her matter and her form; but where Life is modelled upon Fashion, Art can never fashion aught from Life. Straying far away from the necessity of Nature, Mind wilfully and even in the so−called 'common' life, involuntarily exercises its disfiguring influence upon the matter and the form of Life; in such a manner that Mind, at last unhappy in its separation, and longing for its healthy sustenance by Nature and its complete re−union with her, can no more find the matter and the form for its assuagement in actual present life.

>> No.19337160

>>19337141
In determining the divisions of being, yes.

>> No.19337272

>>19337153
>>19337160

I assume Wagner and Holderlin didn't arrive at the conclusion as Zapffe, huh?

>> No.19337330

>>19337272
Wagner had children

>> No.19337365

>>19337272
Neither Wagner nor Holderlin were as pessimistic.

>> No.19337375

>>19337365
Would you recommend them to someone struggling to overcome Zapffe's pessimism?

>> No.19337406

>>19336721
Just climb mountains, bro

>> No.19337410

>>19337375
Yes, definitely.

>> No.19337444

>>19337410
Where do I start with both?

>> No.19337529

>>19337410
Mind explaining their respective solutions?

>> No.19337555

There's no refutation of anti-natalism and pessimism

>> No.19337785

Bump

>> No.19337883
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19337883

>>19337444
Holderlin is difficult because of the difficulty in translations, but I started with the following article as an introduction to his thought:

https://jcrt.org/religioustheory/2019/04/30/from-kant-to-holderlin-poetry-and-religion-in-the-wake-of-philosophical-aesthetics/

and Hyperion as an introduction to his art. Later on you can read his individual essays and poems. For Wagner's art start with Tannhauser then the Ring (specifically the third drama, Siegfried), for his thought Beethoven (pic related) is the best introduction to his numerous prose output.

>>19337529
Holderlin is the most separated from a pessimistic outlook, even if he lived a life of pain and suffering. Because he deals with the same fundamental questions as Zapffe, but as a German Idealist and systematic philosopher almost entirely obsessed with finding the answers in Greece, where so much suffering is first articulated about human existence. While Zapffe's nihilism at root is opposed to that religiosity of Sophocles or Plato. Their orientations to the same questions differ from the start a great deal.

Wagner's views changed constantly throughout his life, but he always retained a more organicist philosophy, and in the 1860s developed the idea through the power of art of a religion of redemptive innocence and 'paradise regained', and similarly looked in Greece for answers. His philosophy is quite difficult to summarise because every minor idea depends upon an explication by him some place else, but which are just as necessary to understand the whole.

>> No.19337928

>>19337406
Yes.

>> No.19338671

>>19337444
>>19337555
Check em.