/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.19762098]

I don't get it, how is the world in Brave New World supposed to be a dystopia? It seemed pretty good. Am I just stupid or what?

[Anonymous No.19762113]

Clearly the elites went with huxleys concept instead of orwells, producing such people like OP.

[Anonymous No.19762191]

>>19762098
Shut up faggot get the fuck off MY board

[Anonymous No.19762198]

>>19762098
Why does everyone who creates a bnw thread have the same shit take? I suppose most people just get it and don’t feel the need to post about it, but it still seems a little odd.

[Anonymous No.19762218]

>>19762098
Cattle motherfucker

[Anonymous No.19762226]

>>19762098
Hardship and individuality is taken away for simple hedonism in return

[Anonymous No.19762232]

>>19762098
If you unironically think it is a good world to live in, you are stupid and I hate you.

[Anonymous No.19762271]

>>19762232
For 99% of the population it would be a better world to live in that this one.

[Anonymous No.19762312]

>>19762232
>>19762271
it's just the world we have now but much simpler because everyone's addicted to one specific drug instead of a giant swarm of various pleasures and the caste system is obvious instead of implicit. that kind of straightforward regime would not produce as much psychosis as ours does and be easier to oppose.

[Anonymous No.19762343]

>>19762098
You’re wrong

[Anonymous No.19762368]

>>19762343
I have always wanted to strangle a goose

[Anonymous No.19762634]

>>19762198
At least he posted the less-shit cover art. I don’t know if the man-machine collage version is sold in the US or what but I hate it with a burning passion

[Anonymous No.19762724]

Spoken like a true Delta

Stupid dumb fucj

[Anonymous No.19762821]

>>19762226
>Hardship and individuality are taken away for simple hedonism in return

You do realize that 98% of humans cannot actually redeem these opportunities. Hardship and individuality do nothing but cause endless suffering in the lives of most people because they lack the mental capacity to actually allow these freedoms to produce value.

You're essentially giving each human a lab bench full of very powerful chemicals. While 2% of people may be able to use reagents like freedom, individuality, hardship, and ambition to produce things of value, for the 98% of humans with limited mental capacity, they just hurt themselves.

The problem is that the state indoctrinates the peasants into believing that "So long as you handle the chemicals on the work bench, you will produce great value". This is seldom if ever true for most people, but regardless, they all approach the work bench and brutally maim themselves with improperly handled freedoms.

It's sadistic to say that this world is a dystopia just because the peasant is dehumanized. The peasant is buffooned and tortured for his lack of humanity as it is, Huxley provides a world where the peasant can avoid this torture instead of this "idealistic" world where you convince every nigger and their mother that each and every one of them is a titan of industry that is also a doctor, a successful professional entertainer, and professional basketball player.

You just end up with a bunch of peasants spending their time trying to play basketball, make shitty "entertainment", have terrible "entrepreneurial" ideas that at best turn into scams or crimes, then fail of of school because they are "so intelligent that they don't need school".

The world offered by Huxley is humane and beneficial for the vast majority of people, even if we are forced to sacrifice the "magical negro" archetype of the current western propaganda, that's still much better, considering that said propaganda produces little more than failure, suffering, and strife in every peasant who puts faith in that delusional idealistic bullshit.

[Anonymous No.19763408]

>>19762098
so many brainlets get filtered by this!

[Anonymous No.19763492]

>>19762821
Spoken like a bitchass petit bourgeois engineering student who hasn't truly known a single "peasant" in his life

[Anonymous No.19764248]

>>19762098
you're only the 15,678th person to make this original thread!

[Anonymous No.19764638]

>>19762098
>proves suffering is good

[Anonymous No.19765312]

>>19762098
BNW isn't really a dystopia on the likeness of Orwell, but rather a "Deconstructed Utopia".

[Anonymous No.19765337]

>>19762113
FPBP

[Anonymous No.19765428]

>>19762821
Goddamn

Your entire post reeks of pretentious arrogance, i have no doubt in my mind that you're an unimpressive midwit with a huge ego, who goes around bragging about his "genius IQ", because you have no other source of self-worth, other than the idea that you were "born smarter than everyone else". You might not have the accomplishments to show for your "genius IQ", or else you wouldn't feel the need to mention your IQ at all, your accomplishments alone would make people respect you, but no, you gotta center your identity on this arbitrary number, cause you have a hollow personality and life.

You've never interacted with "peasants" with an open-mind and considered the conditions that shaped them into who they are or you'd realize that deep down they're people too and not the helpless retards you look down on them, as you little twat. You exhibit the same psycho-pathologies as a stereotypical rich white leftist who grew up sheltered in a cushy neighborhood; Except the difference is atleast you're honest about looking down on poor people and non-whites, but the fact that this behavior of your is conscious and not subconscious makes it equally disgusting nonetheless. Develop some self-awareness, please.

[Anonymous No.19765989]

>NPCs like OP
>bnw is ideal bc ppls basic needs are met and theyre sorted into a intelligence based caste system determined by their genetics and those who value hedonism highly can receive it justly while those who value ambition are in the right spots so that there is no reason to complain.

Yeah there's people who are content doing fuck all and dopping up all day, but in reality it's not based on some static measure like genetics, IQ, race, etc. If this were true everything would be super predictable and markets would not exist and communism would work flawlessly.

There's no determinate of human desire. It changes, yes partly on identifiers like genes or race, but much more so on environmental conditions. Even in perfectly equal market economies ppl want to differentiate themselves. All life is in constant competition to adapt to better conditions than those around us. Having all your needs met doesn't matter because there's no end to desire for change.

[Anonymous No.19766031]

>>19762098
Filtered.

[Anonymous No.19766043]

>>19762198
>People who dont agree with me are dumb >:(
Provide an argument dickhead.

[Anonymous No.19766114]

“Through anxiety and temptation, the elite are robbing us of our god-given freedom to choose, which has been for all of history our only edge above dumb animals. Anything besides seizing absolute and immediate control of your independent reason is sacrilege and will enslave the collective consciousness of humanity. If we do not bow to the force that brought us to life, we shall bow to the elites which bring us to death.”

[Anonymous No.19766119]

“Hypocrite you are. What shall your individual freedom grant you? The novel that will save humanity? The end of world hunger? No. You shall sit and writhe. But you are not immune, you see. You will fall into temptation just like I do. Except my fall will be applauded by the world. Your fall shall fill you with disappointment and self-loathing. You will become a virus which slowly kills those around you. Do not be afraid. We lost. Have a drink.”

[Anonymous No.19766208]

>>19763492
Engineers are proles, dork

[Anonymous No.19766311]

>>19762343
Let go of the duck!

[Anonymous No.19766812]

>>19762098
What makes BNW more sinister than conventional dystopias like 1984 is how the masses will react to it. in 1984, the regime is pretty much universally hated and in constant risk of collapsing because it's so cartoonishly evil. While in BNW, you don't need cartoonish sadistic evil to control the populace. They will instead EMBRACE and support you as long as you provide for their needs and pleasures. This is why BNW is more effective than other dystopias: because it gives the people what they want, it can actually manage to reign forever.

[Anonymous No.19766828]

>>19762343
What the fuck, let it go!!

[Anonymous No.19766878]

>>19766812
good perspective anon.

[Anonymous No.19766886]

>>19762821
Many may fail in the fight but the fight itself is nonetheless important and must be experienced. It helps everyone simply by existing. Life on Earth would be utterly meaningless, like any other story, if it were free from pain.

[Anonymous No.19766902]

>>19762098
BNW is a high concept distopy, in theory: life being meaningless without risk and conflict, achievements being worthless if they're just handed to you, your future being already set in stone...
In practice, it tries too hard and comes off as silly.

[Anonymous No.19766933]

>>19766812
Plus the ruling system made me the majority of the population literally retarded

[Anonymous No.19767045]

>>19762098
It's been a decade since I read this but if I remember correctly some of the population can "see through the cracks"? As in, if you don't take your soma the effects do wear off and you start to see how shit everything is. If so, this is probably the most dystopian aspect to me. If you were drugged with 100% reliability, so there's never a moment when you're not high, then I think it'd be a utopia as far as the characters are concerned. Of course the readers might still see it as a dystopia but I'd wager that's because they're projecting some weird sense of alienation onto the story; they witness the drugged up sheep and are thrust into despair by their loneliness in a world where everyone else is escaping reality like that. Or perhaps they merely lament some grand notion that humans have a "duty" to exercise their free will, conquer the stars, invent God, or what have you, and its impossibility in such a world. But for any given individual, it seems to me like it would always be more beneficial to be one of the drugged up ones, as long as they don't have to be exposed to occasional glimpses of reality.

[Anonymous No.19767051]

>>19762098
BNW is about humans being completely subservient to the machine. It's basically pre-computer version of The Matrix.

[Anonymous No.19767083]

>>19767051
In the Matrix people are unconsciously put into the Machine. but in BNW, the masses WANT the Machine.

[Anonymous No.19767095]

>>19767083
>In the Matrix people are unconsciously put into the Machine. but in BNW, the masses WANT the Machine.
They are carefully engineered from before they are born to be that way. They are themselves essentially merely products of the machine, there isn't any real choice involved on the part of the masses.

[Anonymous No.19767235]

>ctrl + f eugenics
everyone itt has misunderstood OPs pic rel
this is not a future for us, its a future for their kind

[Anonymous No.19767340]

>>19766812
This, but it's unfortunately it's also taken to such an extreme that people fail to see how the narrative applies to themselves. We're all John Savage, but we know we're surrounded by Gammas who want soma, Helmholtzs who just want to simulacra of freedom. And most of all we know the Mounds of the world run the show.

Reality though, is that there is no Mounds. The Gammas constantly don't get deliveries of Soma, nor is the conditioning anywhere near absolute. There are Alphas slaving away in Gamma roles due to circumstance and Gammas rising to Alpha positions.

The system isn't stable or high functioning. The image of a totalitarian state guiding everything, who, if defeated, would create, would result in, if ot a better world, at least a freer one, is just more Soma though. It gives simplicity and purpose.

If you look at /pol/ threads about "what will you do after le ebin civil war," the most common answer is something like, "move to a rural state, buy a farm, homestead, go to church, marry a Christian girl, raise a family." This is ironic for me living in rural Kentucky, because houses with enough land for homesteading are still cheap even near towns of 20-30k with amenities. Less than $200k if you don't want something new and up to date, affordable on even quite low wages given current rates. Churches are open today. None of that is unachievable, but the "war" is supposed to transform them, make them brave and self sufficient, build a network and community. Generally though, wars do the opposite, the experience of America in waging wars abroad with relatively low casualties, all of them military, is not the norm. Not that it's a US thing, people in 1914 yearned for war to escape boredom, becoming consumerist cows, Nietzsche's Last Men.

The irony is that modern philosophy obsesses over becoming a machine, and ignores ancient philosophy's obsession over becoming a beast, being a slave to your passions and desires. Now it's about rejecting the intellect and reason to get to authenticity. There is a "real" life distinct from the fake. Freedom comes with danger.

There are 400,000 or some "temple prostitutes" in India. The institution is now a cover for the child sex trade. They are low caste with almost no opportunity. They tend to be the daughters of prostitutes, sold into the trade as there is no hope of better wages and no husband will marry them. Many contract HIV and die young. Is this freedom?

Since we don't control what we desire or our passions, I find it hard to see how the modern embrace of them is freedom. To my mind the problem of Brave New World is that it's fantasy, first and foremost. Second, that people are slaves to desire, not the Logos. They've lost God. But this would be better represented by showing how Mound and the leaders grapple with having a utilitarianism that is grounded in nothing. A development of the Logos that has stopped reaching for the Absolute.

[Anonymous No.19767362]

It's literally CONSOOM PRODUCT: The Society

[Anonymous No.19767375]

>>19767045
Heroin must be good if you look at the state of how some junkies are prepared to live