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/lit/ - Literature

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1996255 No.1996255 [Reply] [Original]

Tell me, what does /lit/ look for in a fantasy book?

I'd appreciate deep explanations;
If you say e.g. unique, tell me, what would make the book unique!

>> No.1996275

Originality.
Good prose (as in, actual good prose, not Rowling or bestseller-of-the-month level).

That's about it.

>> No.1996482

>>1996275
As in things which can be remembered for a long time? Like millenia old things we read today?

>> No.1997800

Bumping for interesting topic.

>> No.1997812

I just look for a good story with readable prose. That's all a man can ask for.

>> No.1999303

A good magical system that isn't generic (well there are mages here lol, they do magic) but well thought out (and not overpowered dbz level like in Malazan's Book of the Fallen)

Focus on characters rather than the fantasy elements, thats what makes the world believable.

as little exposition as possible, don't give me a character's reason for being in a tavern, let me discover it through his dialogue with people in there or something

>> No.1999305

Waldo.

>> No.1999345

I don't like elves and orcs. Especially orcs. I really don't like orcs. Not a very deep explanation tough. Maybe they remind me how people have an idea of how fantasy should be(medieval times, swords, magic, dragons and other mythical beings, wizards, a quest, a hero etc.) and how they just pick what they want and mix it up to get a new story. Like a magical cyborg with not much memories from their childhood finds out he is really a robot who has human parts(notice how it's the other way around!) that are there so he can use his magic(because robots can't use magic) goes to hunt down the men who made him(he also has a crisis on if he is alive and has a soul and such) and on the way he meets others like him and he finds out about the people whose parts he has and he finds out that it's all a part of a bigger paln and so on and so on. He also befriends an orc. You see plenty of stories like that when you look into a "post your own ideas" thread on /co/ or someplace like that.
Maybe I'd just like to have more fantasy that aren't just adventure stories. But fantasy seems most fit for adventuring?

>> No.1999360
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1999360

>Tell me, what does /lit/ look for in a fantasy book?

Deus ex machinas. I take one shot of Wild Turkey bourbon for every Deus ex machina I find.

>> No.1999364

An interesting fantasy world is as important as the characters in it.

>> No.1999381

I like books with a more subtle aproach to there fantasy element, having magic completely saturated and understood and throwing elves/dwarves/ect everywhere ruins a book for me, especially knowing that it will probably end with the main character solving everything with there super-special-unique magic that they are almost guaranteed to have.

>> No.1999391

>>1999364
no its not

the most important thing is that you tell a good story, or have good characters, or do interesting shit that stimulates mental processes. plausible and interesting settings are important, but the details of the decline of the 5th Ardividan Empire or the precise explanation of why a 5th-Tier Water caster won't be able to use an Air-aligned aura are completely fucking unimportant. fantasy authors need to just fucking go with it instead of creating baroque mythologies and histories that are usually banal as hell, cliched, and tired anyway.

>> No.1999538

Thanks for all replies! So a fantasy setting as a -background- for a story about personal relations ain't so bad?

>> No.1999545

all fantasy is equally worthless as literature

>> No.1999553

>>1999545
all literature is an insubstantial mimicry of human experience.

>> No.1999581

>>1999545

All fictional literature is fantasy, you fucking idiot.

PROTIP: There was no Emma Bovary. She is not and was never real.

>> No.1999585

>>1999581
stop using fantasy as loosely as possible so that you can feel better about yourself for being a fun reader

>> No.1999595

>>1999585

I'm a fun reader, sure. That's why I specifically mentioned Emma Bovary - Flaubert is one of my favourite authors, but that doesn't mean that I'm not going to read Terry Pratchett because I need to prop up some kind of self-image of myself as "not that kind of person".

Fuck you, lighten up. Take a chill pill. In fact, why not take an overdose and fucking die.

>> No.1999596

>>1999585
Stop being a narrow-minded asshole who erroneously thinks he has it all figured out.

>> No.1999604

>>1999595
HAHA

>> No.1999609

Entertaining/interesting story; preferably with lots of twists and shades of grey.

>> No.1999612

I look for something:

#1.) Without dragons, those are used waaay too much.
#2.) With a good story. Eragon is a blatant rip-off of Star Wars, not a good story. Perdido Street Station is a very good story, very unique take on the fantasy genre.
#3.) That isn't bogged down by a horde of characters.

>> No.1999616

I like LotR and Gormenghast and Conan and John Carter of Mars.

Basically all the foundational stuff, I guess.

Oh, and I really enjoy that bizarre meta-fictional stuff that Kirkbride writes for the Elder Scrolls series.

>> No.1999627

I've actually found that most of the better fantasy is aimed at kids, or at least young adults. Most of the adult fantasy I've read tends to be either pretentious or silly or just downright bad. Part of the reason fantasy gets so much flak is that a lot of authors seem to think that adding fantastic elements will make a work good just by themselves, and then they skimp on stuff like atmosphere and plot and underlying themes.

Michael Chabon's only kids book, Summerland, is really excellent, and it's really inventive as well. Not your standard fantasy novel.

I also greatly enjoy the Percy Jackson and the Olympians series, partly because I'm a mythology buff and partly because they're fun as hell. This is almost a guilty pleasure, except that I recommend them to almost everyone. So it's not all that guilty, it's just aimed a much younger audience.

>> No.1999628

I want a guy with a giant sword or magical axe kill hordes of orcs. gotta be about 200 pages of that. yeahh then its a good fantasy book

>> No.1999646

>>1999627
is summerland readable if you're not a lil babby

like is it as ok for adult readers as like a daniel pinkwater book, that's all i ask for really

>> No.1999657

>>1999612
#1.) Without dragons, those are used waaay too much.

Dragons can be awesome - Michael Moorcock's dragons are wicked bad. Terry Pratchett made dragons interesting again, kinda by copying moorcock, bu also with Lady Sybil.

#2.) With a good story. Eragon is a blatant rip-off of Star Wars, not a good story. Perdido Street Station is a very good story, very unique take on the fantasy genre.

Perdido Street Station kinda has a dragon in it except it's a dream-eating, drug-shitting moth from beyond the cactotopic stain. It's big, has wings, can kill everything it sees = dragon

#3.) That isn't bogged down by a horde of characters.

Partially agree - lots of characters are very cool, as long as the writer can handle them, and bring them together at the end (there are a lot of characters in Perdido Street Station, and it still works). If the writer is less skilled, then stick to a core. But if you have books about groups of four0fice people, it's a bit like reading a D&D advanture.

What I look for in fantasy:

A sprawling and well-conceptualised world that makes you think "I bet the author has some amazing stuff in their notebook that they couldn't squeeze into the novel"

A realistic approach to the fantasy: if there's magic, I want to know how this impacts the world, if there are other races, I want to know what they're like, not just "ORCS IS EEVUL THEY IS WORKING FOR THE EEVUL MAGIC PEEPULS CALLED SAURON AND MORDOR AND ORCS IS EEVUL".

Character growth and change - just because you're in a fantasy novel doesn't mean you have to start Frodo and end Frodo. Caul Shivers, a character in Joe Abercrombie's books, is a perfect example. He has grown from an antagonist in the main trilogy to a fully nuanced (and rather scary) character, whose scariness is actually established by what he doesn't do, not what he does. A hard man's hard man, to be sure.

>> No.1999661

>>1999646
It's very readable. It's not condescending or anything, and the themes are pretty complex and deep, but it's written in an easy-to-understand way. Easy to read, more complex than it appears.

>> No.1999663

I like it when it describes things very visually. So I can have good picture in my head and feel like I'm in it

>> No.1999667

>>1999661
sounds good

i don't really like baseball but i'm a minor-league chabon stan

>> No.1999699

C.S Lewis's "An Experiment in Criticism" distinguishes, I think usefully, between four kinds of realism: realism of presentation, realism of content, psychological realism, and moral realism.

Realism of presentation refers to the look, feel, taste, smell, etc the author presents us throughout the novel. If it's vivid and accurate, it's realistic in this sense.

Next is realism of content. This kind of realism refers to what is what is happening. Are we taking trips on the subway and visiting relatives for the whole novel, or are we fighting dragons and smoking stars out of obsidian pipes? If it's the former, it's realistic in content.

His third type, psychological realism. This refers to the psychology of the characters: are they complex or simple? Do their minds function the way our minds function? If they do, they're psychologically realistic.

The last is moral realism. Is morality in the world presented by the work ambiguous, or reasoned out, or is it simple and self-evident? If it's the former, it's morally realistic.

I tend to require psychological realism and moral realism to really enjoy a work of fantasy. I have no desire to read about Mary sues or crusaders. I'm really, really into something if it also has presentational realism, but that can't make up for a weakness in the other two.

>> No.1999847

>>1999303
You are perfectly describing the Old Kingdom Trilogy by Garth Nix. TO ANYONE WHO READS THIS POST: TRACK DOWN A COPY OF SABRIEL AND GET STARTED!!!

>> No.1999862

>>1999667

>i don't really like baseball but i'm a minor-league chabon stan

I have got literally no idea what the fuck this means, you wasted shape of a human skin.

On the other hand, if you like baseball, AND you like fantasy, and you like games, then maybe you'd like to try the Univeral Baseball Association by Robert Coover.

If I remember right it has swearing and fucking in it as well.

But mostly games. Baseball games.

It's fucking awesome by the way, I am in no way being ironic, you 21st century shitbastards. This is the new sincerity, and Robert Coover is a part of it. Damn his dead ass to bastardy, he can't say otherwise, so fuck him.

>> No.1999892

>>1999862
well okay mister "i'm too good to call or write my fans" - this'll be the last 4chan dot org post i ever write your ass

>> No.1999909

Anyone read The Desert Spear? Worth it alone for that spear sodomizing.

>>1999847
Seventh Tower wasn't too bad, either.

>> No.1999910

>>1999892

Shut up, you fuck. I have no idea what that means.

>> No.2000631

>>1999609
>>1999627
>>1999657
>>1999699

I find these replies quite useful! Thank you very much!

>> No.2000647
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2000647

I have never even picked up or looked at a fantasy book.

I also have never heard of many of the fantasy authors/books that are posted on here.

I will never read a fantasy book.

>> No.2000661

>>2000647
>implying there aren't western canon books that you've read that are fantasy

>> No.2000663

>>1999847
Sabriel is shit.
Young adult novels of kids in magic schools.

>> No.2000667

im looking for an interesting, well written story, that helps me pass the time quickly. it shouldn't challenge me, but neither should it belittle me.

for instance i feel like an idiot reading the dresden files and i read shit like "He was so mad that steam nearly shot out his ears." as author description (not in character dialogue).

I also look for consistency of narrative. Having a few characters POV is okay, but if you have something like WoT or ASOIAF where you have 100 POVs and all you want is another fucking Rand chapter, that sort of shit pisses me off.

>> No.2000676

I look for well developed characters and a genuinely interesting story that has more to it than "we must find the MacGuffin to defeat the Big Bad Evil Guy".

>> No.2000697
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2000697

>>1999847
>implying I haven't finished the trilogy already

really interesting and unique setting, although he did pull some bs once when he made me think that he killed off sabriel

>>2000667
>not wanting another Matt chapter

ISHYGDDT

>> No.2000734
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2000734

I'm not exactly well read, but I enjoyed the hell out of Name of the Wind and Wise Man's Fear.

>> No.2000742

>>2000734
Fuck yes, this is awesome.
I don't like most fantasy, but this was amazing.

>> No.2000795

>>2000734

Amazing books, can't wait for the third, will be a while yet though.

>> No.2000798

>>2000697
Fuck yeah Mat, best character in WoT

>> No.2000818

>>2000734

First one was great, but the second book felt like a lot of filler to me. Didn't enjoy it nearly as much.

>> No.2000820

>>1996275
>Good prose (as in, actual good prose, not Rowling or bestseller-of-the-month level).
This. There are so many fantasy authors who have good ideas, but can't seem to write an engaging story. Even if the framework of that story well thought out.

Characters that are believable. I'm most immersed when I am put into the shoes of people that have human flaws. Or if the characters are alien, they can't be defined by a few common attributes to their race. I don't mind if the book has a lot of characters, but they have to have a reason to be there, rather than be two dimensional cameras to sequences of events.

Those were kind of generic concerns though, but in fantasy I often look for a well fleshed out world with interesting characteristics. The setting has to be believable in a way, even if it's completely out of this world. I also enjoy when there's an epic story where shit really hits the fan. This doesn't necessarily mean two huge armies clashing, but rather that the events have actual implications in the world they happen in.

Often I'm conflicted with books. For an example, I thought Patrick Rothfuss is a fantastic writer, with really solid prose, but I was genuinely uninterested in the world, mythos, and in most parts the story he built. The main character is a bit unbelievable (very handsome, very intelligent, very brave, fast learner of everything), but the story is told in a way that just keeps you reading. Though, there's the fact that the storyteller IS the main character and it might just be he has an inflated opinion of himself. The Kingkiller chronicles is a good example where I ignored flaws just because the writing was solid.

>> No.2001155

bump

>> No.2001164

>>2000820
This is a good post and I largely agree with your criteria here. Although, for me, the flaws with Kvothe's character were too much to ignore, but different strokes I suppose.