cormac mccarthy thread

[Anonymous No.20396387]

Judge Holden was actually the protagonist, try and convince me otherwise.

[Anonymous No.20396400]

This is not r/books.

[Anonymous No.20396434]

>>20396387
Well you're wrong and dumb.

[Anonymous No.20396505]

>>20396387
Did you even read the book?

[Anonymous No.20397715]

>>20396387
Holden was a force, he wasn't a protagonist or antagonist.
I reread it recently and had an interesting thought.
If the Kid had taken the shot at him towards the end, would he have died? It's suggested that he's still just a man, since he was badly sunburnt when he met the guys at the spring in the desert. But since the kid didn't take the shot when his life literally depended on it, the same kid who had no problem massacring Natives and civilians despite his occasional misgivings. We can conclude that he either couldn't kill the Judge, or that deep down he didn't want to, because the Judge's philosophy affirmed his bloodlust. I don't think Tobin could have either. He hated Holden more than anyone, and could have taken the gun when the Kid refused. But he didn't.
The whole last chunk of the book is still confusing to me. Holden calls the Kid the "last of the true" but kills(?) him anyway. Was this because the had confounded the Judge by going his own way and refusing to be subsumed by absolute War, and in doing so, came to exist outside the Judge's knowledge?

[Anonymous No.20397750]

>>20397715
Are there any intertextual analyses on Judge Holden and Holden Caulfield? I've always thought they're more similar than not.

[Anonymous No.20397782]

>>20397750
If you're serious I'd genuinely like to know what you mean by this.
How is a kid trying to find his place in the world similar to an archon-like lord of violence?

[Anonymous No.20397790]

>>20396387
is there a version of this book where he doesn't make every sentence 4 pages long?

[Anonymous No.20397829]

>>20397750
Not sure if you're shitposting but I'm drunk and want to talk about BM more

I don't remember much of Catcher In the Rye but I remember Caulfield being an uncomfortably realistic portrait of an angsty kid meaning to understand the coldness of the world. Very emotional, frustrated a lot of readers because he doesn't consider things logically. The Judge is the polar opposite. He's a judge, a title that confers mastery of logic and code, and in the hallucination sequence it's revealed that he's the "judge" of the value of the apparition's coinage, i.e. he evaluates ad appraises the values of man as history progresses. He never lies (other than the first scene in Nagadoches, in which he uses it as a weapon against a man of God)- there's nothing to suggest he wouldn't have honored the negotiations he was laying out with the Kid and Tobin in the desert, and the fact that he doesn't kill them shows that he isn't a being of animalistic violence, but a cold and legalistic one- he has witnessed the brutality of the gang members and still considers them flawed disciples. Therefore, he's telling the truth when he calls the Man the last of the true. There's a world of difference between the "wild west" of the border trilogy and the hellscape of BM where you could truly exert Will to Power and shoot a dozen Mexicans with no consequence. The Judge's Truth is War, War is God, it's an absolute the same way God is an absolute in Christian theology. Times have changed but he speaks the truth in saying that he never sleeps and will never die, as War will always be "a" god of Man, so his work will never be done.

[Anonymous No.20399263]

>>20397782
>>20397829
I just meant that Caulfield acts as a sort of judge for his peers, and for society at large. No child can be corrupted without his permission, which he will never give. Judge Holden is the evolution of Caulfield. His subject is no longer the individual child, but man as a species. Judge Holden sees War in man's every step, while Caulfield too sees war, but a war against the genuine.

[Anonymous No.20399273]

>>20399263
>>20397715
>Holden calls the Kid the "last of the true" but kills(?) him anyway. Was this because the had confounded the Judge by going his own way and refusing to be subsumed by absolute War, and in doing so, came to exist outside the Judge's knowledge?

I forgot to add. I think this part makes sense if you consider that Judge Holden thought everyone had become a phony, including the Kid (as evidenced by when he did not kill him, as you mentioned), and when he finally realized, or at least admitted to himself, that the Kid was genuine or "true", or "nice", he refused to accept it, because it was not by his explicit doing.

[Anonymous No.20399445]

>>20396387
You don't even know what protagonist means do you, anon?

[Anonymous No.20400015]

>>20397715
>Holden calls the Kid the "last of the true" but kills(?) him anyway
It's never confirmed he kills him, you could interpret that he made the kid do something in the outhouse to fully convert him into a brutal killer - potentially linked to the girl who went missing that chapter.
Still, even if he did kill the kid it doesn't contradict his philosophy. The judge sees mortal combat as the ultimate expression of ones will over another - the combatants are the "true dancers", the ones who are capable of violence and exerting this will over others. Of course, for someone to prove themselves to have the strongest will they would have to kill or at least outlive the other true dancers who seek the same. Meanwhile the rest of the increasingly "civilised" human race are "false dancers" as the dance loses its meaning when detached from war, violence, and mortality, leaving only one true dancer who has then proven his will to be the strongest.
Overall though I think the end of the book is supposed to symbolise the death of this wild and brutal era of humanity. So while the Judge may prove himself the victor this "meridian is at once his darkening and the evening of his day", as he himself stated earlier in the book.

[Anonymous No.20400019]

>>20397715
>Holden calls the Kid the "last of the true" but kills(?) him anyway.
It is because The Kid finally tries to force his will onto the Judge, i.e the dance, the dance of opposing forces and wills, that remains true considering the order of being itself

[Anonymous No.20400054]

>>20396387
He raped his sister

[Anonymous No.20400301]

>>20400054
Who?

[Anonymous No.20400421]

>>20400054
Wrong Holden

[Anonymouṡ No.20400463]

Imagine arguing with comma splicers.

[Anonymous No.20401253]

bump

[Anonymous No.20401651]

>>20396387
It didn't have a protagonist, but it did pointlessly follow some kid around for a good while.

[Anonymous No.20401722]

>>20396387
> I consent for all unknown things to exist.
Checkmate.