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/lit/ - Literature

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[ERROR] No.2116407 [Reply] [Original]

hey /lit/ new here and was wondering if you all could help me find some new authors/books to get into. i love bukowski and henry miller and that whole dirty realism feel, real life stuff nothing romanticized and just raw stuff. just finished all of bukowski's stuff and orwell's down and out in london and paris and i loved that too. so any suggestions would be appreciated

>> No.2116413

>Bukowski

Stop right there. Turn 180. Go back where you came from.

>> No.2116415

I would recommend Crime and Punishment

>> No.2116419

>>2116413
was just wondering because the recommended reading didn't have anything specific that i wanted so i thought i'd at least give it a shot

>> No.2116423

John Updike.

He's terrible, but so is your taste.

>> No.2116424

>>2116407
Gritty & Dark != Real

Just because there's swearing and grimdark doesn't make anything real.

>> No.2116425

>>2116419
So you want people to tell you where to buy books about a guy that nails trannies?

The Gay and Lesbo section of your local Barnes and Nobles.

>> No.2116426

>>2116424

High school's hard, man. Let him cope any way he can.

>> No.2116428

alright well thanks everyone this went about as well as i thought it would

>> No.2116436
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If you want poetry try Al Purdy. I don't know how he compares to Bukowski because I'm not that familiar with his work, but I do know that Purdy was one of the few living poets (maybe the only) that Bukowski respected (that's not to say Purdy needs Bukowski's recommendation--his stuff certainly stands on it's own merits). Purdy doesn't strike me as 'gritty' as I imaging Bukowski is, although he is a high school drop out and sorta working class (until he earned enough money from writing).

The Last Picture in the World

A hunched grey shape
framed by leaves
with lake water behind
standing on our
little point of land
like a small monk
in a green monastery
meditating

almost sculpture
except that it's alive
brooding immobile permanent
for half an hour
a blue heron
and it occurs to me
that if I were to die at this moment
that picture would accompany me
wherever I am going
for part of the way

>> No.2116437

>>2116428
We're just trying to help you grow, man, and understand that there are much more in depth works that are better.

>> No.2116441

read hemingway and you'll be embarrassed for liking bukowski.

>> No.2116444

>>2116437
well i'll give and admit i'm a senior in high school and he's about the extent of "real" i've read so it's pretty scary how quickly i was identified but i would like some recommendations on in depth stuff that is better than bukowski. never realized he was so disliked around here. but yeah i'm open to anything i can find at the library

>> No.2116449

>>2116444
Oh good. I can't help you because I don't do poetry, I just don't connect with it for some reason, but if you listen you'll find some great stuff here. You just have to sift through all the shit because, well, it's 4chan.

>> No.2116450

>>2116444
He was flavor of the month back in march when he was only lightly known. Now that he's more well known on this board, he's hated. This board is run by the hipster code, just like mu. Thank god they hate him now, he's a shitty writer.

As for what you should read instead, anything. Read the prints on the shit house walls, your better off.

>> No.2116456

>>2116450
>>2116449

thank you for being a bit more reasonable. is henry miller hated? he's a bit more intellectual than bukowski i'd assume...and i don't like bukowski's poetry its really boring to me. yeah i dont fucking know literally my first post on /lit/

>> No.2116462

>>2116450
lol bukowski was never popularized on /lit/. I bet you think /lit/ only has strong feelings about Ulysses because at one point nobody knew about it

>> No.2116463

>>2116456
Well this is my first day in about a year. As far as literature, just read the classics, they're classics for a reason. I know school tends to ruin them, but if you read them for yourself they can be great. The Great Gatsby, The Count of Monte Cristo, what ever. I would recommend some Aldous Huxley, particularly Eyeless In Gaza, if you want some intellectual stuff.

>> No.2116465

Poetfag here.

Poets: Phillip Levine, Fredrick Seidel, Phillip Larkin, James Tate.

You can find samples of all these poets on the poetry foundation. If you want to buy them, grab a selected works. Also, if you want to do yourself a huge favor you'll pick up David Orr's Beautiful and Pointless and John Hollander's Rhyme's Reason.

>> No.2116469

You guys are fucking assholes. You can't put the man in the Essential Poetry Guide and then dismiss him as trash and juvenile.

I get that he's entry level, but that is really only to say he's accessible. Bob Dylan is accessible music, but that doesn't mean it's bad music.

>> No.2116473
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>>2116469
Forgot my picture.

>> No.2116476

>>2116462
Are you new? If you don't remember the non-stop ham on rye threads, then you must be.

>>2116456
I don't hear much of henry miller, but I don't personally hate the guy.

>> No.2116479

>>2116469
You know anyone can post anything on that thing, right?

>> No.2116480

>>2116469
Oh, and bob dylan is bad music. But this isn't /mu/.

>> No.2116483

>>2116469
Not OP

It also depends on who you ask. I'm not particularly partial to Bob Dylan, but I am partial to shit like A Day To Remember. Any way, I agree with you, so this was a frivolous post, I'm just bored and waiting for OP.

>> No.2116486

>>2116456
Henry Miller's certainly not bad, although I'm not sure if he's hated here. I doubt it though. Bukowski's not bad either (you might call him overrated though, if you wanted to be anal about it), it's just that here on /lit/ we are all still pretty young and adolescent (wouldn't be surprised if most posters here were <20), which put's us in the awkward position of having to prove to everyone around us that we're mature and adult and like mature and adult things. Bukowski, like Stalinger's The Catcher in the Rye, and to some extent Ayn Rand, is a marker of adolescence: we all knew that kid in high school who thought of himself as some great poet and annoyed you with his thought's on how Bukowski is the best writer ever to write, ever. That doesn't mean that the books and writers are bad (although Rand is truly bad), it just means that you wouldn't want to read them (or, at least, tell people you read them) if you were trying your hardest not to be adolescent.

>> No.2116487

>>2116465
thanks i'll check these out. poetry has never been my biggest interest but i've always wanted to try it out outside of school. thanks for the responses, school is full of shitty taste of kids who either read harry potter or twilight and then the weird nihilist kids

>> No.2116488

>>2116486
No, he's bad. Just because you like him doesn't mean he's good.

>> No.2116491

>>2116488
Just because you like him doesn't mean he's bad.

>> No.2116496

>>2116488
>>2116486
op here and i really don't care if people think my tastes are shit and i seem like an 18 year old kid trying to read big boy books because essentially that's what i am. also i don't read books so i can be a part of some circlejerk either. same reason i don't listen to NMH when i go on /mu/

>> No.2116499

>>2116463
> they're classics for a reason.
protip: it's not the reason you think. Or maybe, more accurately: it's not entirely, or even mostly, for the reason you think. Classics are not these platonic ideals they've been made out to be. They're usually well written novels, and often pretty good, but there are other factors, concerning "taste" and sociology and social positioning and class and all that fun stuff that /lit/ will learn about when they go to college (if they get accepted, that is).

>> No.2116501

>>2116491
>Alot of people don't like him. But I like him. I better come up with some bullshit excuse why they don't like him.

>> No.2116504

>>2116487
Don't discount Nihilism. It's angsty as fuck, but ignoring philosophy because it's lame doesn't make you cool. Read everything, even if it's bad it will give you insight into the idiocy of man.

>> No.2116508

>>2116499
That's absolutely true. What ever you do, don't have expectations. It will only impede your enjoyment of the story.

>> No.2116510

>>2116504
i've read into it and i don't ignore it, some of these kids just read it like a bible and ignore everything else more to the effect of what you're implying

>> No.2116529

>>2116491
>>2116491
> Just because you like him doesn't mean he's good.
are you trying to have one of these incredibly stupid conversations where people just yell words at each other that are so vague and general (good, bad, etc.) that no progress is made and both parties leave slightly less intelligent than they were before?

Anyways, caring about whether what you read is in 'good' or 'bad' taste is only slightly above entry level. To make a musical comparison, you would be the guy who reads pitchfork (although you don't actually read the reviews, you only look at the albums scores and download the ones which got higher than 8.0). Not quite entry level (you aren't listening to Mumford and Sons or Nickleback), but it's still clear that you either don't know that much about music or don't really like it as much as you imagine you do. The next step above this would be to realize there is a lot more to art, and specifically 'taste' (because that's what this whole good and bad thing is about) than you think there is, and that there are complex factors at work here concerning trivial shit like social positioning and the acquisition of cultural capital (lrn to first year sociology) that you really ought to stop caring so much about. For example, you dislike Bukowski because he is a marker of adolescent pseudo-intellectualism. You are at a stage in you life where you are still maturing (or else you've simply stalled on your way to adulthood and will for ever remain immature) and need to prove to everyone around you that you are not an adolescent pseudo-intellectual. It's pathetic how typical and average your posturing is. As if it wasn't apparent to anyone with a basic university education in the humanities what exactly you're doing.

>> No.2116535

Read some Nelson Algren.

He's kind of like Bukowski, but good.

>> No.2116542

>>2116529
this was supposed to be a reply to
>>2116488

>>2116501
> I better come up with some bullshit excuse why they don't like him.
my argument is not exactly anything new or controversial, and thus you dismissing it as simply 'bullshit' is not really something I can take seriously. This is really basic stuff here. Like I say, the cultural markers at work and their social implications should be easily decoded by anyone with a basic education in the humanities. If you would like some serious work on the subject I suggest
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Distinction
which is generally thought to be the go-to work on the subject. It's a fairly easy read and not too impenetrable, but you do seem to be a little out of your league, son.

>> No.2116554

>>2116529
Talking out of your ass doesn't constitute as a comeback ,if that's what your trying to achieve.

>>2116542
I would like you to read this book, then talk to me.
Chemical Shifts and Coupling Constants for Silicon-29.
That's how much your argument affects my judgement of a tranny fucker.

Care to talk out of your ass anymore? The methane is starting to really smell.

>> No.2116575

>>2116554
> Care to talk out of your ass anymore?
do you understand that when you are on an anonymous internet discussion board you have literally no authority on anything? Thus if you want people to take you seriously there has to be at least some amount of "proving yourself" going on. You can't just say "you're wrong" and leave it at that. You've gotta provide some sort of argument. Right now you just come off like an obnoxious, unintelligent and anti intellectual plebeian, which is fine if that's what you were going for (maybe you just like trolling but are terrible at it, or maybe my stereotyping of you touched a nerve, I don't know), but I just though I ought to let you know that whatever it is you're trying to do it's not working.

>> No.2116576

>>2116575
Neither you. So shut the fuck up, I'm not even reading your shitty posts.

>> No.2116581
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>>2116554
>your trying
>Chemical Shifts and Coupling Constants for Silicon-29
>fart joke

>> No.2116587

>>2116581
I clearly care about this arugment.

>> No.2116594

>Bukowski

Perhaps you'll find the toilet cubicle wall by Anonymous to your liking?

>> No.2116608

>>2116576
> Neither you
I don't even know what.

> So shut the fuck up, I'm not even reading your shitty posts.
You have an attitude problem. I am trying to help you stop making shitty, ineffective posts, and you're just being a dick.

Look, clearly you do care, despite how hard you are trying to appear otherwise. You wouldn't be taking the time to reply if you really didn't care. Basic grade 2 school yard logic tells us this. All I'm saying is that whatever you're doing you're not doing it all that well, and I want to help you do it better. If your just trolling for laughs and giggles your ovbiously not doing it very well as it's not funny or creative. If your mad at me because I insulted you and you want to get back at me it's not working either, because you're not doing anything more than the whole lalalalala-I-can't-hear-you thing. And ovbiously this is pretty far from being a serious conversation, but I really hope that's not what you're going for.

Just trying to help you, bro. Your post don't have to suck and I honestly think you're better than that.

>> No.2116625

>>2116608
I don't know if you noticed, but I haven't cared since your first post. Your having an argument over the internet with someone who hasn't cared since your first post. Sort your life out.

>> No.2116664

>>2116625
> You wouldn't be taking the time to reply if you really didn't care. Basic grade 2 school yard logic tells us this.
> I don't know if you noticed, but I haven't cared since your first post. Your having an argument over the internet with someone who hasn't cared since your first post. Sort your life out.

Umm . . .

See, a huge problem with your rhetoric (or maybe 'anti-rhetoric?') is that it makes it comes off as pathetically desperate, and thus is counter intuitive and does a good job at convincing me that I must have touched a nerve somewhere, almost to the point where I am worried that there's some kid on the other side of the internet completely broken up over something I said to him. Like, I'm hoping you don't reply to this so that I can really actually maybe convince myself that you actually 'don't care,' although of course this will only be an illusion and it will be completely irrational as your presence in this thread pretty conclusively proves you do care very much. I don't know man, I'm just worried about you is all.

>> No.2116764

>Bukowski
>party hat
Jesus, how depressing!

>> No.2116773

Please ladies, don't fight. You're both pretty.

>> No.2117646

Try Lawrence Ferlinghetti and Alexander Trocchi - they're both like Bukowski (Trocchi is arguably a far better writer) and they're super-obscure, so you get hipster points too.

I love them hipster points - I'm saving up enough for a weekend away in somewhere you've never heard of, but where they make the most awesome cheese.

>> No.2117654

read authors from the Beat Generation

>> No.2117658

Try Cain's Book by Alex trocchi OP, you'll enjoy it.

>> No.2117663 [DELETED] 
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[ERROR]

William Burroughs' son wrote a couple of books. One of them is called something Ham, or something - google it up. It's pretty gritty.

>mfw William S. Burroughs outlived his son by decades.

Heroin - It's a fucktonne better than meth.

>> No.2117683

holy shit you people are snobby faggots

>> No.2117686

try 'Hunger' by Bukowski's favourite author, Knut Hamsun.

>> No.2117706

how do you not mention raymond carver in a thread about dirty realism

>> No.2117710

>>2117706
Raymond Carver is amazing.

>> No.2117715

>>2117663
More like
>Heroin - It's a fucktonne better than alcohol