Is there any solution for this Schopenhauebros?

[Anonymous No.21546364]

Life is passed off as a gift offered, but it is evident that each one would have politely refused it, if they could have seen and examined it before; in this sense, it is the case of Lessing's son, whose understanding he admired, who adamantly refused to enter the world and had to be violently brought to it by forceps, but as soon as he was in the world, he hurried out of it. On the other hand, it is often said that life should be, through and through, just a lesson; to which, however, anyone could thus retort: "Precisely for this reason I would have wanted to be left in the peace of self-sufficient nothingness, where I would not have needed lessons or anything else." If it were added that the human being must one day account for every hour of his life; then he would rather have the right first to demand an answer as to why he was taken out of that peace and calm in which he was, to be placed in such an unfortunate, obscure, distressing, and painful situation. — This is where fundamental false views lead. Far from bearing the character of a GIFT offered, human existence bears in everything the character of a DEBT contracted. His bill to pay appears in the figure of urgent needs, torturous desires and endless shortages posed by this existence. As a rule, the whole time of life is employed in the payment of this debt: and even then we only pay the interest. The payment of capital takes place on death. "And when was this debt contracted?" — In procreation.

[Anonymous No.21546394]

>>21546364
Yes, realize that nothingness doesn’t exist so there was no “peace” before life. Peace only exists in life.

[Anonymous No.21546395]

He's right. Convert to Buddhism in order to end suffering.

[Anonymous No.21546648]

>>21546364
What "solution" is there? He's just correct. If you have children you're the most evil archetype of human to exist. Worse than rapists, killers, etc. Creating life is beyond inarguably evil. This is not a new or profound concept anon, nor is it one that needs a solution as you put it.

[Anonymous No.21546715]

>>21546364
>Life is passed off as a gift offered, but it is evident that each one would have politely refused it, if they could have seen and examined it before

Why even bother writing an aphorism that can be dismissed outright with the slightest anecdotal evidence? Anyone with an ounce of strength in them is grateful for this magnificent gift of life, and it's only the weak who look at this gift with scorn because they have nothing to give of themselves.

[Anonymous No.21547016]

>>21546715
>Anyone with an ounce of strength in them is grateful for this magnificent gift of life

[Anonymous No.21547088]

>>21546394
One could argue most of life is pain and boredom with momentary points of fast fleeting joy. That makes it negative

[Anonymous No.21547103]

>>21546715
I don't know if I can see the overall value of my life as a whole, wether it is negative or positive. It seems positive on the whole right now, but I am sure that would change if I got brutually gang raped tommorrow. To speak of Life in it's most abstract since is kind of pointless. We all live differently enough and have lived little enough of our lives, that I really don't know how anyone(other than God maybe) can have any authority on making some kind of quantitative analysis of life. That is if happiness even has objective metrics. I don't think it does.

All that we are really left with is a choice. Would you like to view your life as a pointless tradegy? Well if you do, no one can convince you otherwise, and so your life is a pointless tradegy if you really want to be. Same vice versa. All that it takes to live a good life is to believe you are living a good life lol.

[Anonymous No.21547997]

>>21546364
Life seems tolerable to me. The only horrible thing about it is that it ends abruptly. No certainty of an afterlife. Just death. Final. Simply existing would be fine but no, there's a brief period of consciousness and then, as far as I know, it's gone.

[Anonymous No.21548006]

>>21546364
Leave the world to people that appreciate life.

[Anonymous No.21548034]

>>21546648
>If you have children you're the most evil archetype of human to exist.
based

[Anonymous No.21548037]

>>21546715
>t. NPC

[Anonymous No.21548089]

>>21548037
>life is... le GOOD!
heh heh... retarded NPC!

>life is... le BAD!
um hello, based department?

[Anonymous No.21548334]

>>21548089
Correct.

[Anonymous No.21548372]

>tfw can’t even an hero because of immense guilt
What would society look like if it wasn’t frowned upon the way it is? What if instead it was seen in a neutral or positive light?

[Anonymous No.21548387]

>>21548372
Why do you care? You won't exist to experience the pain you cause. Who cares?

[Anonymous No.21548397]

>>21548387
Do you care what happens after you die? If so, why? And how's it any different?

[Anonymous No.21548404]

You guys are losers just letting you know. If it’s possible to see your reality as a living Hell then it’s possible to make your reality the opposite. Also if you are in the West then you guys are seriously retarded. Get out of your small brain and try to change your reality instead of looking at everything so logically.
Your point of view is only valid if you enjoyed life and have seen what’s possible, otherwise you are speaking from a limited experience and COPING HARD. Followers!

[Anonymous No.21548432]

>>21548387
Because I know full well right now how it will go, that’s why it’s guilt, as I said. People are not geared to take something like that in this day and age. I think one day things will be different though.
>>21548404
>implying I don’t know I’m a loser
I find your “dude just change” attitude archaic as well. As if everything is within my grasp and power.

[Anonymous No.21548474]

>>21548432
Suicide is by definition an anti social and unethical act. There is no way to justify me or you or anyone ever killing themselves. It’s really only up to the person killing themselves if they care enough about those things, and by extension guilt, to not do it.

Suicide is a selfish act, whether that be good or bad. It typically falls apart when you consider the wellbeing of others. That will never change, but one day there might be less taboo around talking about it.

[Anonymous No.21548485]

>>21548474
>existence is forced upon you
>choosing to exit said existence that you did not consent to is immoral
Wrong. So very wrong.

[Anonymous No.21548532]

>>21546364
>>21546394

I'm pretty sure it's this. Fact is your here. You go along willingly and try and make the best and be happy about it, or your dragged along unwillingly like a sad retard.
This is why one of the first inscriptions on the temple in Delphi read: follow God.

[Anonymous No.21548561]

>>21548485
Yes it is immoral. If you define ethics as what is the most good for the social unit, and you as part of that social unit, removing yourself and any of the good you offered it is unethical.

Birth is another thing separately. I wouldn’t blame someone for killing themselves, but it cannot be denied that it is an anti social act.

[Anonymous No.21548686]

>>21547997
Life is tolerable to most. It's even downright enjoyable to a lot of people. But it's pure suffering if you're an incel.

[Anonymous No.21548820]

>>21548686
This, unironically. I am absolutely serious, if you are an actual incel your top 1 priority is escape inceldom ASAP, beyond basic survival this is your most important goal. Once you do that, even with someone you don't care too deeply for, you'll be on a better path.

[Anonymous No.21548889]

>>21548432
nobody can tell you how to change man, i’m just saying that it’s possible and perhaps you need to go low enough to realise what you’re doing wrong. all i can say for advice is to spend time everyday trying to change. here let me get you started by forming a new separation: you’re not a loser, you think you’re a loser

[Anonymous No.21548920]

>>21548820
What if I'm 30? Is it still worthwhile or should I just kill myself?

[Anonymous No.21549226]

>>21548920
Dude the person you responded to is probably 14-17

[Anonymous No.21549229]

Before you there were people who also thought that they came from nothing and to nothing they would return. Billions of people thought just like that before you think of yourself as arriving and in the future and even now billions will and do thing the same. Death isn't real there only exist consciousness you are everything.

There is no such thing as non-existence there is no peaceful void (nothingness) from which you were torn from you have always existed and always will. Thank God for bodily death and the blessing of suicide because when we become weary we can be renewed and look at the world like a innocent child again with fresh senses and wide-eyed amazement

birth is an illusion, death is an illusion; Is:Is


>>21546648
>Worse than rapists, killers, etc. Creating life is beyond inarguably evil.

Yes, people who have children literally affirm suffering, it must be cognitive dissonance or a lapse of reason. They know of the evils in the world; they have heard and maybe seen or felt, rape, murder, disease, war, disability, needs, desire etc
By having children they virtually affirm all this by saying with their act "I know of all things bad and yet I will give my own child to this cosmic auschwitz" It's like a satanic ritual, I really believe this world must be another's hell and souls from that other world are born here into circumstances befitting their punishment. Parents are like the tormented who have become the tormentors. Those who consciously choose not to have children are like saints.

[Anonymous No.21549244]

>>21549226
Sure, but what if I'm an incel at 30. Is there any hope or should I just kill myself?

[Anonymous No.21549434]

I wonder if while having sex for procreative purposes could still continue to do it while imagining their child that is being made body decomposing which while be a future result of their action

[Anonymous No.21549444]

>>21546364
>Each one would have politely refused it, if they could have seen and examined it before
To me, what's he's saying is Not Even Wrong. It seems nonsensical. What would be the version of you that's rejecting life? Before you born, *you* didn't exist. So it would have to be the current version of you who is deciding whether you're happy *to have lived*, which seems a very different question than wanting to live in the first place.

[Anonymous No.21549480]

>>21548089
yes

[Anonymous No.21549534]

>>21549229
It's not unreasonable. People just want someone they can trust to take care of them when they get old. It's reasonable in so far as the cosmos is reasonable. Quite a few people lead lives that aren't all that bad. Pessimism is a perspective one chooses just like optimism.
>>21549244
I'm only 28 lad. There's always hope. As I said above its all about your perspective. If you think you need external things to make you happy and to lead a fulfilling life you will never have enough because once you get them you'll want more or something else. That's how desire works and that's why you need to learn to be content and affirm what you have.
>He who isn't content with enough will never have enough
I think happiness and fulfilment come through a certain perspective (acceptance) and as a by-product of acting on that perspective. I don't want to tell your grandma how to suck eggs but if you haven't figured this stuff out by the time your 30 you need to read more philosophy and think about life bro. I recommend the Enchiridion.

[Anonymous No.21549621]

>>21546364
For anyone to ascribe "peace", "sleep" and "tranquility" to the so called nothingness or non-existence is very nonsesical

[Anonymous No.21549622]

>>21546364
>Life is passed off as a gift offered, but it is evident that each one would have politely refused it, if they could have seen and examined it before;

Stopped reading right there.

[Anonymous No.21549669]

>>21548920
My guess is you've been doubting yourself much longer than the moment you posted this. You're being yourself as you've always been. If you wanna trick cause and effect then do your best but I doubt your success because the universe has rules without which everything would collapse.

For experiment sake, maybe do some out of left field shit that might help your cause. Tell big bang determinism to fuck itself.

Not memeing, just struggling with my own demons.

[Anonymous No.21549714]

Gotta love Ligotti's sense of humour in this book. I really enjoyed reading it. Well most of it. There's one chapter where he drones on a little about horror writer's decriptions of landscapes that feels a little bit like filler to me (still good though). If you're ready to take a sober look at the world., this is it.

[Anonymous No.21549733]

>If we (...) submerge our eyes in the hustle and bustle of life, then we will see everyone busy with need and torment, using all their strength to satisfy endless needs and to defend themselves from multifaceted suffering, without however being able to expect anything else to happen. not to be the conservation, for a short period of time, of this individual and pleading existence. >However, in the midst of the turmoil, we see the longing gazes of two lovers meet: — yet, why so much mystery, fear and dissimulation? “Because these lovers are the traitors who secretly plot to perpetuate every need and nuisance that, without them, would soon come to an end, which they want to prevent, as their equals have prevented it before.
>Arthur Schopenhauer. The world as will and representation, Volume II, Chapter 44 (Metaphysics of Sexual Love)
>Imagine for a moment that the act of generation was neither a necessity nor a voluptuousness, but a case of pure reflection and reason: would the human species still exist? Wouldn't everyone feel enough pity for the future generation to spare them the burden of existence, or at least wouldn't hesitate to impose it on them in cold blood?
>Arthur Schopenhauer. The Sorrows of the World
Huh? Lifenjoyersisters... it's over

[Anonymous No.21549880]

>>21549733
>but a case of pure reflection and reason: would the human species still exist?
Yes. A) because it's some people would consider it reasonable to have children so they can be cared for in old age and others because they want to pass on what they consider the gift of life. B) because this is a stupid hypothetical. It's like saying, what if no gravity. Seriously Schopenhauer is what happens when a man let's his feelings run away with him. The only thing that happens when you denial the will to life is you become a fool who can't see through the black smoke of their own bitterness.
>Every man suffers, not every man pities themselves.
Some think life is worth living despite or even because of it's challenges. There's another saying I've heard that applies here:
>better to light a lamp than curse the darkness

[Anonymous No.21550469]

>>21548334
>>21549480
>t. depressed NEET

[Anonymous No.21550488]

>>21546364
This would all be dismissed if everyone had basic necessities. That includes food, water, a house to live in, and people are going to hate me for this one, the ability to procreate.

[Anonymous No.21550583]

>>21550488
We would just come up with new problems. Humanity gravitates towards suffering, but also prospers because of it.

[Anonymous No.21550626]

>>21550583
Yes but these things to suffer over would be vastly preferable to those which are already necessary for our basic survival. Anyone saying otherwise is just being retarded.

[Anonymous No.21550677]

>>21549534
I would add On the Nature of Things as well

[Anonymous No.21551920]

>>21550677
I think the letter to Menoeceus is a better into for Epicureanism. Your right though. It's a good system to be acquainted with.

[Anonymous No.21552232]

Existence is suffering!

counterargument
https://youtu.be/wh-07BzfgYY

[Anonymous No.21552253]

>>21548686
I'm a fakecel and it's pretty easy. Women come and go, and as you age, you find yourself wanting them less

[Anonymous No.21552346]

>>21546364
>I didn't not choose to be born!
There was no (You) floating in nothingness to begin with. Anyone that say that life is suffering is only taking into account one aspect of it, no different from someone saying that life is happiness. It gives the impression that you are a spoil ungrateful ignorant who is unwilling due to, I don't know, some advanced autistic version of a tantrum to see that both the good and the evil exist in the journey of life and there is no argument against it.

[Anonymous No.21552351]

>>21552346
>There was no (You) floating in nothingness to begin with.
Proof?

[Anonymous No.21553377]

>>21546364
Yes, realize that nothingness doesn’t exist so there was no “peace” before life. Peace only exists in life.

[Anonymous No.21553399]

I watched this video recently and cried because they live so simply but as so happy, it's so beautiful (I know its an advertisement but the video is sweet)
We should all live like this, modernity was a mistake

https://youtu.be/xOnNWJ_GNwA

[Anonymous No.21553423]

>>21546394
Depends on how you define peace - if peace is a lack of strife then yes, in nothingness peace exists genuinly. But thinking of peace as the feeling accompanying after-dinner bloat while laying on a bed then you will find none of it without life.