/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.21679856]

Just finished re-reading Nietzsche's Birth Of Tragedy for the fourth time and I still don't get it. What the fuck is Apollonian and Dionysian. What does he mean by saying Socrates killed tragedy with optimism.

[Anonymous No.21679861]

Upon closer examination, one can see how Bikini Bottom is an allegory for the destiny of Faustian europe. Squidward clearly represents the Apollonian aryan man, stern, cultured, full of the creative Hyperborean soul and solar aristocratic character, and yet there is a tragic aspect to his character, in that his spiritual and creative passions are given no place in the degenrate modernistic kosher bacchanale that is modern (((Krabs)))-run Bikini Bottom. Spongebob represents the Dionysian aspect of aryan culture he is the unawakened gentile, who has succumbed to cultural marxist brainwashing. Always maintaining a cheerful, carefree demeanor, and yet fawning and servile before the semitic crustacean power structure. Patrick represents the introduction of the primitive negroidic blood into the formerly pure white ethnos. He is an utter buffoon and unproductive anti-social drain on society, and yet the good goy Spongebob has been conditioned to accept his friendship, unaware of how his own way of life is gradually succumbing to the cthonic, subterranean negroid elements. As I'm sure we're all well aware, Mr. Krabs represents the eternal merchant himself, as while not only is he a filthy money-grubber, it is shown in season 1 episode 12, that he is pushing race-mixing upon the racially unaware Spongebob by trying to set him up on a date with his ballbusting yenta whale daughter Pearl. Clearly, this show was ahead of its time.

[Anonymous No.21679864]

>>21679856
Nietzsche was a hypocritical loser and anything he wrote belongs in the trash

[Anonymous No.21680148]

>>21679861
I can hear the accent while reading this

[Anonymous No.21680157]

>>21679856
Fucking retard forgot to START with the greeks

[Anonymous No.21680158]

>>21679856
You didn't read any of the tragedies before reading a book about them.

[Anonymous No.21680175]

>>21679856
I just started reading Nietzsche and also started with Birth of Tragedy. This book sucks for understanding his ideas. Apollonian represents the logical, rational side of mankind, and the Dionysian the irrational, instinctual side.

I don't know know all I know is he didn't like Socrates cause he was too rational and took away the magic of life from the greeks or some shit.

[Anonymous No.21681221]

>>21679864
you are just angry that Nietzsche single handedly destroys christianity for all generations to come.

[Anonymous No.21681244]

>>21679856
read the greeks. read the early moderns and the enlightenment phils. nietzsche is responding directly to all of these.

[Anonymous No.21682509]

>8 replies
>only one post trying to explain things in their own words >>21680175
>>21679864
>>21680157
>>21680158
>>21681244
for shame! all you do is cast a few
>>21679856
i will try. admittedly it was not as simple as cracking open BT and reading a few passages to jog my memory.
firstly, some context. Nietzsche is writing this book as a kind of aesthetic genealogy of Greek tragedy, by introducing his own novel ideas as well: the Apollinian, Dionysian, and Socrates. (the other half of the book section 16 onwards is just him jerking off Wagner, which can be rightfully ignored)
secondly, definitions. the Apollinian and the Dionysian are both artistic drives that Nietzsche uses as mechanisms to explain Greek tragedy and their subsequent death at the hands of Socratic influences.

>the Apollinian
is the drive towards forms, appearance, representation - as a means toward beauty. it is to appreciate life by re-creating beautiful forms; transforming terror via redemption through appearance (which are still recognized as just forms, still separate, not identified with).
>the Dionysian
is the drive towards primal unity, orgiastic oneness, wild emotions and formlessness, unity with nature and other men, together with all the pain and pleasure of life itself (birth as a symbol of eternal life and the hallowed pain of the mother).
>Socrates via Euripedes
is the incessance of knowledge as virtue, but in drama. it is the drive to make everything rational, conscious, and to only work on what is known or can be known, which kills the two previous drives. neither of the previous drives rely "know that they know nothing" like Socrates does. they both assert the truth with none of his paralysis

Nietzsche then suggest his own path via an artistic Socrates (similar sentiments to the Gay Science):
>But science, spurred by its powerful illusion, speeds irresistibly toward its limits where its optimism, concealed in the essence of logic, suffers shipwreck. For the periphery of the circle of science has an infinite number of points; and while there is no telling how this circle could ever be surveyed completely, noble and gifted men nevertheless reach, e’er half their time and inevitably, such boundary points on the periphery from which one gazes into what defies illumination. When they see to their horror how logic coils up at these boundaries and finally bites its own tail—suddenly the new form of insight breaks through, tragic insight which, merely to be endured, needs art as a protection and remedy.

you might see that it's Hegelian. Nietzsche hated this work and abandoned some of the directions here. but he did keep the artistic Socrates, and the Dionysian but in a different form as Dionysian pessimism.

in any case, he saw the limits of science and art and wanted to put them together through his own history of Greek drama.

[Anonymous No.21682516]

>>21679864
>>21680157
>>21680158
>>21681244
for shame! all you do is cast a few cheap criticisms and easy recommendations. you hide your understanding because it hides your misunderstanding. try harder! it is for the better.

[Anonymous No.21682520]

>welcome itt: anyone who has horribly misunderstood the greeks and nietzsche

[Anonymous No.21682536]

>>21682520
enlighten us then. you're posting on a sunday so you can't pretend you have anything better to do.

[Anonymous No.21682576]

>>21682509
>it is the drive to make everything rational, conscious, and to only work on what is known or can be known
Great post, anon. That quoted sentence really speaks to me. Sometimes I feel like a robot exactly because I try to make everything conscious. It seems that my instincts, my humanity, has vanished and left me with a ghost to fill my body. That's why I feel so distant and so disconnected with reality. Thanks for the effortpost. I'd post one of my rarest Pepes for you, but I'm not at home right now.

[Anonymous No.21682631]

>>21682576
i appreciate it. he has more on that topic. do a ctrl+f on skeptic every now and then. here's one that's still from BT:
>In this sense the Dionysian man resembles Hamlet: both have once looked truly into the essence of things, they have gained knowledge, and nausea inhibits action; for their action could not change anything in the eternal nature of things; they feel it to be ridiculous or humiliating that they should be asked to set right a world that is out of joint. Knowledge kills action; action requires the veils of illusion: that is the doctrine of Hamlet, not that cheap wisdom of Jack the Dreamer who reflects too much and, as it were, from an excess of possibilities does not get around to action. Not reflection, no—true knowledge, an insight into the horrible truth, outweighs any motive for action, both in Hamlet and in the Dionysian man.
you have more in common with Jack. anyway, i don't want to spoil it too much for you. Birth of Tragedy is still an enjoyable work, even though many readers cast it aside as an immature work.

--
what i've been trying to do by example is get back to having decent discussions, or at least, discussions at all. i have no doubt that if others ITT were as well-read as they claim, they could have easily come up with much better summaries. instead they're all the same. equally stupid, equally belligerent, yet proportionally so proud. i'm glad they suffered whatever they suffered to make them that way, and i only wish it a million times over. but i'd be even more glad if they did more than reflect their own suffering. le internet hate machine is boring now. normies hate things too. the nobility of today are likely those with the most profound appreciation. the rabble is always good at hating.