/wg/ Writing General

[Anonymous No.22233545]

"Return of pirate girl" edition

Previous: >>22223574

/wg/ AUTHORS & FLASH FICTION: https://pastebin.com/ruwQj7xQ
RESOURCES & RECOMMENDATIONS: https://pastebin.com/nFxdiQvC

Please limit excerpts to one post.
Give advice as much as you receive it to the best of your ability.
Follow prompts made below and discuss written works for practice; contribute and you shall receive.
If you have not performed a cursory proofread, do not expect to be treated kindly. Edit your work for spelling and grammar before posting.
Violent shills, relentless shill-spammers, and grounds keeping prose, should be ignored and reported.

Simple guides on writing:
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHdzv1NfZRM
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whPnobbck9s
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAKcbvioxFk

Thread theme: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJ3oHpup-pk

[Anonymous No.22233561]

"Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence.
Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb.
Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts.
Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent.
The slogan 'Press On!' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race."
-Calvin Coolidge

[Anonymous No.22233586]

Given that homoeroticism have been running features of ancient philosophies and religious belief systems, from Plato to Kukai, from Catholic monks play marrying their cloister brothers to Japanese Samurai, what alternatives could there have been to the extreme hedonism and liberalism of the LGBT movement? Could things have gone any other way?

[Anonymous No.22233592]

Can someone critique this scene for me?

https://pastes.io/apdcpxbaw9

[Anonymous No.22233598]

>>22233545

[Anonymous No.22233663]

>>22233586
Are you asking permission to write about a world that isn't gay? Just write it. Don't even hang a flag on it, people will point it out for you.

[Anonymous No.22233800]

How's the start of my first two paragraphs?

>I loved him. Yes, the Great Hungartar, of the Seventh Battalion, Destroyer of Cities, the Scarred Death, fell in love before. A love deeper than any other in my hundred years under the Great Blue Sky. It was a love like no other. A love more intense than any I have shared with my wife. It was stronger than the blood ties that bind me with my children. A love stronger than one with my own mother, sister, or father. My love for him could not be described with any mere emotions that our lexicon allowed. It was something else; a eternal flame unwavering; or more accurately, unflinching. He was more than my King and my savior. He was my brother, my guide, my leader, my Love.

>He declared himself the King of Kings, yet he never treated us any worse. A fitting title. To those around him, we were his brothers. Siblings shared a bond deeper than any. We marched through the great steppes of Tian Shan, the deserts of Persia, the snowfields of Russia, the cities of China, and past the rivers towards Anatolia. We've saw it all. Men cowered at our footsteps, they bowed to our might, their women disavowed any promises at our presence, their sons joined us, and their daughters received us. Kings offered us mountains of gold, jewelry encrusted with the rarest of gems, the most beautiful women birthed under the Great Sky, and even land that stretched farther than the eyes could see, but none of that mattered. No. We cared for something else; something different. Some called it legacy, some called it history, but for us, it was love.

[Anonymous No.22234141]

>>22233800
>Ah yes the Simsalabim, the Hocuspocus of Abracadabra, the Humpty-dumpty and tweedle-doo stretch my legs

Fantasy is completely unintelligible to me

[Anonymous No.22234167]

>>22233800
Don't agonize over the first paragraphs. Just keep going until you find a groove, and edit later. Come back to us when you have 60 pages.

[Anonymous No.22234176]

>>22234141
It's historical fiction

[Anonymous No.22234366]

Anyone traditionally published?

[Anonymous No.22234416]

>>22234366
>Anyone won?

[Anonymous No.22234452]

Post Pastebins I want somthig to reade

[Anonymous No.22234473]

>>22234366
At what point do you consider it published? After signing, after shelving, or somewhere inbetween?

[Anonymous No.22234571]

Does this shit even work as a rhyme I feel like I'm losing my mind
>The reason, I think, is their art
>Once in love with it they can't be apart
>And once they see how much can be said in so few words
>Of course it's going to affect how their whole world works
Don't know why I keep thinking something is right and something is wrong with the words works thing

[Anonymous No.22234590]

there any good apps to write with during all the freetime i have at work?

[Anonymous No.22234591]

>>22234473
If you get a deal with a publisher it's pretty much done deal and you're published.

Why would a publisher agree to royalties for your shit if they intend to never print? Just to harvest pain from aspiring writers?

[Anonymous No.22234593]

>>22234571
words/ works don't rhyme
it's assonance/consonanc

[Anonymous No.22234596]

>>22234590
Just use any word processor

[Anonymous No.22234599]

>>22234590
>apps
Stop writing on phone you fucking subhuman. Anyone can find an hour or two of free time and write at home. I mean literally anyone, even the most overworked wagies.

[Anonymous No.22234611]

>>22234599
im not trying to listen to some faggots podcast for hours or watch retards on youtube talk about a persona game for 10 hours long while im doing fuck all at work
im trying to put all my free time to good use faggot

[Anonymous No.22234612]

>>22234593
>it's assonance/consonanc
What's that?
What would you do with that verse?

[Anonymous No.22234617]

>>22234590
Google docs

[Anonymous No.22234631]

>>22234611
>im trying to put all my free time to good use
Then write on work PC.

[Anonymous No.22234636]

>>22234452
Read my shitty royal road story.

https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/67568/a-knight-of-valora-serenity

[Anonymous No.22234668]

any tips for writing dialogue? do you plan it out entirely or can you just kind of wing it

[Anonymous No.22234676]

>>22234599
How is writing on a phone on your break a bad thing? You can get more done when you don't have access to your PC.

[Anonymous No.22234680]

>>22234668
You can wing it, but just like anything, you should at least know what the fuck is the point of it.

I generally think about the points I want to touch on, then just fucking wing it for the most natural dialogue.

[Anonymous No.22234686]

>>22234676
You're not going to write shit in 15 minutes on a phone, idiot.

[Anonymous No.22234712]

>>22234612
Assonance is similar vowel sounds within a word. These are all assonant:
>sleep
>teeth
>pee
>sheets
It doesn't really work at the ending of lines of poetry. It works better with words that are close together
>con job
>red hen
>lugubrious effluvium

Consonance is the same thing but with consonant sounds. Like...
>wash the cushion
or even
>lush grass

[Anonymous No.22234753]

>>22234712

>lush grass

ok Angus

[Anonymous No.22234754]

>>22234712
So is it both with words works? So that is what I was feeling instead of a rhyme? I feel my brain is seeing everything as a rhyme now, I'm tired after trying to write a poem. What would you do with that verse though, scrap it?

[Anonymous No.22234792]

>The bell rang furiously and, when Miss Parker went to the tube, a furious voice called out in a piercing North of Ireland accent:
>"Send Farrington here!"
The repetition of "furious" is awkward, right? If I found that in my own draft I'd make a note to rework it without even thinking about it.
But Joyce of all people probably knew what he was doing. So what gives? Did I condition myself too hard? Is there a reason it should work well here? Is it just some quirk in his style?

[Anonymous No.22234810]

Anyone care to critique my first page.It's horrible writing i know, but i have to start somewhere. Been dreading to post something on royal road for a decade now. Stuck in a perpetual state of catatonic behavior, i decided fuck i'm just gonna write a shitty litrpg


https://pastebin.com/hPMQJ4mH

[Anonymous No.22234830]

>>22234810
Random capitalization, incorrect grammar, no proofreading done. Why are you like this?

[Anonymous No.22234831]

>>22234810
First sentence would be much better if you dropped “grasped hands.”

[Anonymous No.22234833]

>>22234686
How long does it take you to write a few sentences dude? Plus, I come up with sentences in my head, it's better to note them down when I have the chance before I forget them.

[Anonymous No.22234836]

>>22234830
>Random capitalization, incorrect grammar, no proofreading done
"I'm going to write the NEXT BIG THING on my PHONE!"

[Anonymous No.22234837]

>>22234831
Any advice on >>22234571? Are there no poetry threads here?

[Anonymous No.22234843]

>>22234792
>But Joyce of all people probably knew what he was doing.
You're just overthinking it. Back in the stone age, editing wasn't all that quick and simple and more often than not authors would just go "fuck it" and not even bother. I doubt many bothered to read their drafts twice, they just wanted to get it out as fast as possible and move on.

[Anonymous No.22234844]

>>22234833
>How long does it take you to write a few sentences dude?
An hour or two, unironically.

[Anonymous No.22234846]

>>22234830
>Random capitalization
I never understood how this is such a common issue with writers. Why do people do this? Even if it's not intentional and it was autocorrected, at least proofread to get rid of any instances of it.

[Anonymous No.22234849]

>>22234837
You want a critique of four lines? Okay, you have a perfect rhyme and a non-rhyme, which feels strange for something so short. The meter is way off and, ironically, your third line, which is about being succinct, takes forever. Count out the syllables.

[Anonymous No.22234857]

>>22234810
It's fine! Keep going.
But also go back and proofread and edit. (Everybody has to do this.) You have a lot of trivial mistakes. Spaces that don't belong, erroneous capital letters, "a"/"an" mistakes, mixed past tense and present tense, typos. You have to sift those out.

>>22234843
That doesn't sound right in this case. Getting Dubliners published at all took a decade and The Sisters in particular was revised a ton.

[Anonymous No.22234860]

>>22234846

It's called laziness and carelessness and it's a plague amongst the youth. Imagine how badly their p/bussies smell.

[Anonymous No.22234868]

>>22234860
Why are boomers so fucking weird?

[Anonymous No.22234870]

>>22234810
Obviously needs some editing, but its honestly not bad for litrpg. Keep writing and try to stop requiring validation from random gay basket weaving aficionados

[Anonymous No.22234884]

>>22234870
There's errors almost every sentence. Being encouraging is good, but not at this level. He needs to proofread at least once before posting for critique. Or even to RR. This is worse than most litrpgs from a spag standpoint. Can't speak for content because I clicked away.

[Anonymous No.22234892]

>>22234830
I haven't written a lot since leaving high school must be my ESL brain at work. Read through it several times never noticed the capitalization errors. Thank you making me see the error of my ways anon.

>>22234831
What is wrong with grasped?

>>22234857
Thank you, i'll take it to heart and mind.

[Anonymousn No.22234895]

Why do some many people in this thread start their stories with like, a minute description of a meaningless physical action? I don't get it! Do you actually think it's more interesting and inviting than, say, describing a guy's thoughts and feelings?

[Anonymous No.22234904]

>>22234892
Start passing your writing through grammarly and chatgpt. There's not a few errors, there's a ton. I skimmed and counted 9 in the first 2 paragraphs.

[Anonymous No.22234919]

>>22234884
Those mistakes might be immediately repulsive but they're a poor metric precisely because they're so easy to fix.
There's a nice story about a talent scout who has to pick between two players of equal performance—but one of them has great form and the other poor form. Of course he picks the one with poor form. Think of how well he'll play once he fixes that!

>>22234892
>Read through it several times
In that case, what >>22234904 said. I don't use either for writing but I think Grammarly might be better at this stage because of the immediate feedback. Ideally you want to train yourself to barely make these errors to begin with, and getting notified right away could help.

[Anonymous No.22234926]

>>22234895

[Anonymous No.22234931]

>>22234857
>The Sisters in particular was revised a ton

Repeating words is actually one side-effect of revising too much. You edit a sentence to include a word and forgot you already used it in a related clause, you just subconsciously feel like it belongs there and then don't read the rest of the sentence cos you're all tired and burned out.

[Anonymous No.22234934]

>>22234754
>What would you do with that verse though
Once they see how much can be said in so few words,
Their anuses will expel multiple brick-like turds.

[Anonymous No.22234949]

>>22234904
>>22234919
I'll try it out. I refrained from trying it before because some folks on r/writing said it simplified sentences. Thanks for the advice

[Anonymous No.22234954]

>>22234949
Use it to correct the grammar issues. You don't need to accept the word choice replacements and etc

[Anonymous No.22234961]

>>22234892
>What is wrong with grasped?
It should be "grasping", unless someone else has grasped Elia's hands.

[Anonymous No.22234962]

>>22234452
Here nigger: https://pastes.io/gzsd9evms2

[Anonymous No.22234969]

>>22234892
>What is wrong with grasped?
Clasped would maybe work better. Best to just delete it altogether tho.

[Anonymous No.22234979]

>>22234931
Well, sure, but James Joyce is supposed to be one of the greatest prose stylists of all time. And this is the first sentence of the story it's in. (Which is Counterparts, not The Sisters, to be clear.) I don't know if I buy that.

>>22234949
You can choose whether or not to follow its advice.

[Anonymous No.22234994]

>>22234849
Should I always have a perfect rhyme? Should the syllable number match? What do I do about the meter?

[Anonymous No.22234999]

>>22234979
yeah okay dude I'm sure there's some deep meaning for him using furious twice. You should imitate him and start using adjectives twice in all your sentences to recreate his talent, I'm sure they'll make you part of the western canon too

[Anonymous No.22235008]

>>22234999
Oh fuck off, all I wanted to know is whether it sounded as awkward to other people as it did to me.

[Anonymous No.22235013]

>>22234994
You want some sort of rhyme scheme if you’re doing a rhyming poem. I can’t think of any effective poem that rhymes only sometimes or randomly, but they might exist. Right now, your poem looks like this:
AABC, which feels clunky.
You’re probably looking for AABBCCDD to start. Read your poem out loud to help judge for meter. If it feels like you’re needing to rush your words, your line is too long.

[Anonymous No.22235021]

>>22235013
>I can’t think of any effective poem that rhymes only sometimes or randomly
What about https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9eLzJKmK54

So the meter is just a feels thing to start off with? Also after a while I really can't tell what rhymes with what, is this something that happens to other people, like that line with work word didn't seem right, but there was also something that seemed right about it and I just couldn't put my finger on it.

[Anonymous No.22235034]

>>22235021
There’s science to meter which you can look into, but you don’t really need to concern yourself with it yet. Try to get an ear for it first.

[Anonymous No.22235068]

Why tf do rhyme sites say intimate rhymes with commit?

[Anonymous No.22235072]

>>22235008
I'm finding myself using 4chan less and less because this place has gotten so needlessly bitchy over the years. Must be all the estrogen in the water.

[Anonymous No.22235089]

>>22235068
Which one does?

[Anonymous No.22235105]

>>22235089
https://www.rappad.co/rhymes-with/intimate

[Anonymous No.22235171]

>>22234452
https://pastes.io/srniagrwnm

please critique on plot, character, dialogue, setting

[Anonymous No.22235297]

>>22235171
>exposition dump intro
aaaand dropped

[Anonymous No.22235359]

>>22234611
Then why don't you do some work at work?

[Anonymous No.22235396]

>>22235359
go away corporate cock sucker. u have dollars to make for your overlords. go do some free overtime

[Anonymous No.22235397]

>Read nothing but classics and philosophy
>Gave a sample of my writing to someone and they said it sounded archaic
That was a long time ago but I remember I thought it an odd criticism, now that I am thinking of writing again is there anything wrong with sounding "archaic"?

[Anonymous No.22235404]

>>22234141
iq issue

[Anonymous No.22235422]

>>22235397
Depends on how archaic we're getting. I always write in a more old fashioned style and I am not changing it, don't give a fuck what people think.

[Anonymous No.22235464]

I can't decide what the fuck I am supposed to write. Forget genre, I can't even figure out the loose category - pulp, serious genre writing, "art". I can't do it. I don't really feel very strongly about writing. I am decent at it, but I am not super into it. As a result, I can't figure out what to do with my skills.
I am great at psychological, interpersonal and "deeper" fiction, I like that stuff, it's close to my heart. I like narratives like that so much. But it's hard, and I am an "original" enough of a writer to have a very limited possible target audience.
More serious genre fiction? I can do it, but it's not my strength. I don't care for it super much. It takes effort and memory to do this right. I am plagued by doubts of mediocrity and failure.
Pulpy shit? It's easy to write, quick to write, and it sells really well, especially if I lean into the more erotica-like aspects, the comedy, the crude violence of the genre. I am good at writing charismatic characters. This seems like the most "practical", sustainable and financially promising choice. But I was raised a Calvinist! I may not be a Christian anymore but I have a really hard time swallowing my pride and dropping my "standards", however arbitrary they may be. How could I share my writing with my friends like this? Do I even want to make room for that type of writing in my soul? Hard to say. But if I can't sustain myself with this shit, it's probably not worth spending my time writing anyway, since I am not super fired up about the craft. And if I can't sustain myself with writing, I'd have to drop it and exchange it for an actual job. So it seems like pulpy shit is the natural choice here, but the thought keeps gnawing at me: writing pulp won't be good for me, maybe I could also make it big with more serious writing, maybe I'll regret this in some other manner, and since I am not much into writing, maybe writing pulp wouldn't be worth it for me even if I could make a living that way.
I dunno. I am really confused. Logically I feel like I should write pulp, but this literally just dawned on me 10 minutes ago and it's certainly an idea that I haven't even considered before, that's how strange it seemed to me. I suppose I could use some advice, or even just you people's thoughts.

[Anonymousn No.22235470]

>>22235397
> is there anything wrong with sounding "archaic"?
I think there is, but it's really hard to articulate why.

In a sense, it's going 'easy mode'. Part of the challenge of literature, I think, is in taking the bland everyday language of your world and making it feel fresh and meaningful, 'unlocking its secrets'. But if you try to imitate the language of older writers, you're just taking their solution to that problem in their own day and exploiting its residual, second-hand aesthetic power.

But that idea -- that literature is about doing something interesting with the language of your time -- is just another arbitrary claim that I don't know how articulate a reason for. It just distinctly feels kind of... moribund, to me, playing around with fossilised forms, which once were creative interventions into a society of the writer's peers, but now put up a barrier between you and your own peers. It seals itself off into a little comfy zone, whereas art wants to reach out and connect to what's intensest around it.

[Anonymous No.22235521]

>>22235396
you're deflecting, try answering the question

[Anonymous No.22235526]

>>22235464
>But I was raised a Calvinist! I may not be a Christian anymore but I have a really hard time swallowing my pride and dropping my "standards"
Have you read Melmoth the Wanderer yet? Maturin was raised Calvinist, but he was far from it despite working in the Irish Protestant church. Some of his work bordered so close to heresy that he was removed from the church and died in poverty. Melmoth is particularly interesting because normally Gothic is thought of a Protestants mocking Catholics. But in Melmoth, Maturin critiqued almost everything in a way that only someone raised in the church could understand, putting a lot of his own beliefs into question.
You might not want to write Gothic necessarily, but I suppose looking for authors that might share your voice may help you discover your own.

[Anonymous No.22235598]

>>22235521
if you're illiterate to the point you can't understand my implied response, then that isn't my problem

[Anonymous No.22235638]

>>22234846
ESLs.
AKA the plague upon the writing community. Third worlders destroy every hobby they infiltrate like cancer.

[Anonymous No.22235668]

>>22235598
if you're a parasite to the point you can't understand why you should do work while at work, then that isn't my problem

[Anonymousn No.22235705]

>>22235668
The very basic and common experience of not wanting to do work while your at work is a sign that your consciousness knows that it should be used for things beyond the tiny, draining role it sadly finds itself in. Work is generally grim and it's generally impossible to differentiate what work is necessary from what work is there enable people to keep doing more work in order to keep doing more work etc. There's no god-given rationality for why production has become the sprawling self-sustaining mess it has, and to call an instinctive aversion to that parasitic misses the overwhelmingly bigger picture of how most of our conscious hours are being used for ends inimical to consciousness. It's boss morality, and slave morality, which long ago became the same thing. Plus it has nothing to do with creative writing.

[Anonymousn No.22235714]

>>22235668
The very basic and common experience of not wanting to do work while you're at work is a sign that your consciousness knows it should be used for things beyond the tiny, draining role it sadly finds itself in. Work is generally grim and it's generally impossible to differentiate what work is necessary from what work is there to enable people to keep doing more work in order to keep doing more work etc. There's no god-given rationality for why production has become the sprawling self-sustaining mess it has, and to call an instinctive aversion to that 'parasitic' misses the overwhelmingly bigger picture of how most of our conscious hours are being used for ends inimical to consciousness. It's boss morality, and slave morality, which long ago became the same thing. Plus it has nothing to do with creative writing.

[Anonymous No.22235730]

>>22235668
go suck more corporate cock in a different thread. if I finish my prescribed duties and have spare time then I'm not desperately looking for more work so they can make even more money off me. the fact that you do is pathetic.

[Anonymous No.22235767]

>>22233800
This>>22234167 is very good advice. Don't get stuck editing the introduction over and over. You will get nowhere and lose your drive.
As for what I think of this opening, I like its tone. It has a wistful, nostalgic feeling that is very fitting to the subject matter and characterises the narrator nicely. Pacing, word choice, and sentence flow range from really nice in some areas (The "Men cowered..." segment for example) to sketchy in others (unwavering; or more accurately, unflinching) but that isn't an issue you need to address at this early stage.

[Anonymous No.22235776]

>>22235464
If you don't read and understand the "pulpy genres" then your already low odds of succeeding dip even lower. You need to understand that when people say it's easier to make money with genre fic, that just downgrades the challenge from nearly impossible to simply 'very hard'. If you already know you don't enjoy writing genre, then pursuing it as a career is bizarre and a terrible decision.

At a minimum you need to KNOW you'll enjoy it more than being a wage slave/your other 'real career'. Otherwise it's a giant waste of your time, because there's already very low odds you make it.

[Anonymous No.22235805]

>>22235730
no i had the guts to go home early why don't you

[Anonymous No.22235809]

>>22235714
if you don't know why you do what you do at work then you must have a really crappy job and very few marketable job skills

[Anonymous No.22235814]

>>22234895
my story starts with a dream sequence

[Anonymous No.22235837]

>>22234668
Say it out loud to yourself in review/editing.

>>22234571
Poet Anon, you should also do this, both for your rhymes and meter. Words/works is not a rhyme in my accent (RP English) but don't be too discouraged. Always attack a bad rhyme from both directions, and the solution will reveal itself. I also find it useful to read mundane old archaic English like the diaries of Samuel Pepys or the Mayflower pilgrims because the differences in syntax and vocabulary encourage a broader, less constrained view of conveying meaning in English.

[Anonymous No.22235995]

>I am not happy with the execution here. It is not good enough writing. I know that. That said, I am looking for opinions on reference material I should emulate to do what I'm trying to narratively do, but better.

Call me Metatron.

My first memories begin after the world had already ended. I never knew peace except for a few short years in an enclave that became the most infamous place on the planet. In 2012, it was known as Drummond Island, now it is the heart of the Isles. My parents took me there following the supply chain rumors that it was safe. I still remember hiding in basements, sitting next to my mother in the scant light of a glass block window while the sun was still up. We didn’t have batteries for flashlights and the power grid was unreliable at best.

I watched as my father’s face grew gaunt. I never went hungry before we made it to the Isles, but I do wonder how many meals my parents missed to feed me instead. When I was a child, I was afraid he was missing too many meals. Now I am afraid the gauntness was because of how many people he had to kill to keep me fed.

One of the primary symptoms of the fungus—not the virus, but the fungus that takes root because of it—is a loss of inhibitors. Adults used to say that, covering up the truth with scientific terms. The children understood more honestly. The infected raged. They hungered and they envied and they gave in to lust in the most demonic of ways. So did the survivors. Unless the infected was found during the fever stage, it could be incredibly dangerous to know who was healthy and who was sick, and more so to think that because someone was healthy that they were safe.

That was where the lies began. First that it was permissible to kill the infected. Then it inverted. Because they had been killed, they must have been infected. Others see the time as the apocalypse, as a time of strife or cosmic justice. They saw it as a faulty rapture or World War Three. I won’t deny the nuclear ash changed the world, but I believe the ages of men should be described spiritually. The material fixation stems from the industrial revolution and was succeeded by a clamor to name every age after by the technology defining it. Any historian can tell you that the Information Age was upon humanity before anyone realized it. I would simply call it the Hyper-Socialization Age.

What others call the apocalypse, I call the Age of Lies.
[...]

[Anonymous No.22236019]

Is there a point of writing a story like a long (not big enough to be epic) poem? Or should I stop doing dumb shit and write it like a novella in several parts?
AI pic just for attention

[Anonymous No.22236066]

>>22235068
Filthy kiwis infesting our once pure internet

[Anonymous No.22236086]

You all know the backrooms, right? Take them as an example. Imagine someone wandering through those rooms for days and maybe even weeks. Boredom and repetitiveness is key of the essence when living through that experience.
How to translate this into writing properly?

[Anonymous No.22236098]

>>22236086
>Boredom and repetitiveness is key
>How to translate this into writing properly?
Proust's In Search of Lost Time. Maybe don't go as far as he did at being boring and repetitive.

[Anonymous No.22236104]

>>22236098
Proust is on my reading list but he's writing about remembering stuff, right? I'm more thinking about writing in the first person and making it about the immediate experiences.

[Anonymous No.22236117]

>>22236104
Still, you could learn a lot about boring writing from reading Proust.
As well as "Ulysses" by James Joyce.
IMHO.

[Anonymous No.22236119]

>>22236117
I could but I will not get to Proust for at least a year or so. Which is why I'm asking here for ideas for concrete narrative strategies.
I've read Ulysses and didn't find it the least boring.

[Anonymous No.22236354]

>>22235526
I haven't. I'll look into it, but I can't promise I'll read it.
>>22235776
I've read a bunch of pulpy shit, and besides, I browse this website and am also a natural cynic. I am pretty confident that I could pull it off, if I can stick with it. I've seen much worse writers make a very comfortable living writing genre. Weirdly enough your post made me realise that I am very confident in my success but as soon as I start thinking about what I would succeed with, I spiral into utter dejection. Which is pretty fucking weird. What a bizarre quirk. I guess I learnt something important about myself today.

[Anonymous No.22236375]

I had this weird autistic idea for a fantasy setting/plot. The main idea is that this cyborg assassin from the future was sent to this fantasy like world with the whole shabang, elves, orcs etc. The twist is that this cyborg worked for a huge bounty hunter organization. He failed a hunt seconds before being transported. The organization paid for his implants and due to him failing a hunt they set his inner system on a constant countdown starting from 100. What would've ended in a few minutes slowed down once he entered this weird world. He later meets this world's equivalent of a chiropractor who is trying to find her master after he went missing. She says theres apparently an item inside of a crater formation that can apparently grant wishes. He assumes its real and his main motive is to find it to destroy the countdown in his system and to go home. I wanted the magic system in this world to be kind of a punishment? Like magic is powerful but typically you can't chose which one you wield and typically its based around a weakness a certain race has and its painful to use. I.e fish people are seen typically using fire or electric based magic etc.

[Anonymous No.22236384]

>>22236086
unironically david foster wallace's The Pale King

[Anonymous No.22236400]

>>22236354
Have you written stuff online that's been widely popular? Writing isn't a guaranteed success even for skilled writers. Do you have any reasoning for why you would easily become a career author if you go into genre fic? Otherwise it's just delusion which is pretty common actually. I see this opinion a lot.

[Anonymous No.22236461]

>>22236375
thats fucking gay, dude

[Anonymous No.22236471]

>>22236375
Like most other ideas, it could work if done properly.

[Anonymous No.22236474]

>>22236375
I rather you just write the Terminator being isekai'd into a fantasy world. Now that's interesting.

>You're naked.
>Your clothes, give them to me now.
>Nyaa!!! I'm a cute elf girl! You can't fit into these elven bras! You need to find a orc!
>I'll be back.

[Anonymous No.22236478]

>>22234926
My second short story is lawful evil and chaotic neutral at same time.

My first one is chaotic neutral, true neutral and chaotic good at same time.

[Anonymous No.22236493]

>>22236478
Your stories have multiple intros?

[Anonymous No.22236508]

>>22236384
Why? What's the writing in PK like?

[Anonymous No.22236516]

>>22236400
I can see that you have hostile intentions since you're deliberately asking me a question that excludes the possibility of an affirmative answer in the premise. I've written a few million words for a medium-sized circle of friends, all of whom have repeatedly told me that I am a good writer. But no, I have no written anything "widely popular". If I was, I wouldn't be having this dilemma.
>Writing isn't a guaranteed success even for skilled writers.
One of the worst writers I know currently makes 8k dollars per month. So it seems like to a huge extent it's about marketing and consistency rather than quality. And this is what some of my author friends tell me as well. So of course, I can't help but feel that I will have an easy time of it, since obviously inferior writers can make it super big.

[Anonymous No.22236528]

>>22234926
Kill List anon here, proudly Lawful Neutral. Just the same as when I play TTRPGs.

[Anonymous No.22236536]

>>22236493
I was saying I have 2 short stories.

[Anonymous No.22236538]

I wrote a paragraph

[Anonymous No.22236557]

>>22236516
Yes, but just because bad writers can make a lot of money doesn't mean good writers are guaranteed (or even likely) to. Also, just because they have poor prose doesn't mean they're not doing something else right ("bad writing" is too encompassing a term). At a minimum they understand the genre and how to write entertaining slop, which is something many "good" writers can't/don't know how to do. Your ""writing"" might be ""better"" (pointless terms here), but you also might be far less entertaining, which is what's important in genre.

The point I'm trying to make is that if you don't have some form of success writing to wide audiences, then it's very much an unknown as to whether you'll succeed. And being a ""good writer"" isn't remotely the easy-access card you think it is.

[Anonymous No.22236568]

>Finally bite the bullet and write an isekai/litRPG thing
>Minimal effort, literal escapist slop
>Literally the first story I start
>707 views, 68 readers, 10 favorites, 5 star rating in one single night for a single chapter
Bros...

[Anonymous No.22236576]

>>22236568
congrats you gave into slop

[Anonymous No.22236577]

>>22236557
>Yes, but just because bad writers can make a lot of money doesn't mean good writers are guaranteed (or even likely) to.
Sure. But if that's the case, then the difference is marketing and luck. I am not a good marketed but it can't be as hard as writing. And as for luck, idk, you just gotta try again and again until you succeed, isn't that right? Not much to be done about it.
>Also, just because they have poor prose doesn't mean they're not doing something else right ("bad writing" is too encompassing a term). At a minimum they understand the genre and how to write entertaining slop, which is something many "good" writers can't/don't know how to do. Your ""writing"" might be ""better"" (pointless terms here), but you also might be far less entertaining, which is what's important in genre.
No, you don't get it. This writer is bad. Like, bad bad. One dimensional characters and directionless spaghetti plot bad. Still makes 8k per month.
>The point I'm trying to make is that if you don't have some form of success writing to wide audiences, then it's very much an unknown as to whether you'll succeed.
This is a tautology. "You have what it takes to be a successful writer if you are a successful writer". I know that statistically the odds of success are low. I still feel very confident. There's not much I can do about that.

[Anonymous No.22236581]

>>22236568
>>22236568
can you share a screenshot of the stats, just for me to believe it? sounds legit but also. . .

[Anonymous No.22236584]

>>22236568
post werk

[Anonymous No.22236591]

>>22236568
Been thinking of doing the same honestly. Some kind of fantasy smut thing. Should be easy enough, also paywalling smut chapters is likely to make bank. IDK though.

[Anonymous No.22236615]

>>22236577
I meant successful in writing to wide audiences as in you've written fanfiction or similar that doesn't make money but you at least know you can entertain an audience and have received attention from a large number of people.

As for the "bad writer" part, I'm trying to emphasize the point that just because you think it's bad doesn't mean low-standard people don't find it amazing (and would find your "good writing" boring). The classic example is 50 shades. The "writing" is "horrendous" but she knew the market perfectly and wrote what absolute hordes of zero-standard middle aged women wanted to read. Are you positive this 8k/m person isn't doing the same?

I honestly think you just don't have a grasp of the market and are viewing quality (which is subjective) through your own lens (which very well could be opposite of the typical genre reader's opinion). In fact, this almost has to be true, because people don't just throw 100k a year to an author with nothing going for him. You think he's bad, but his stories clearly make people want to pay for them.

For example, the LitRPG genre is famous for what you mentioned (poor characters, spaghetti plot) but the thing is successful authors in that genre know how to write addictive number-go-up, and the audience simply doesn't care that much about nuanced characters or a surprising/exciting plot. Hence you need to know how to write a story that is constantly engaging the reader through dopamine-focused progression. And if you can't do that, then your "good writing" means nothing to those readers. The Lord of the Rings would go totally ignored if it got published to many web serial sites today (or would at least take years to pick up traction via word of mouth).

I hope I conveyed my point this time.

[Anonymous No.22236654]

>>22236568
Anon I remember seeing your username while browsing and furrowing my brow like, "isn't this an anon poster?" since I watch recently posted stories to be aware of the market. Funny to have confirmation. Anyway I hope your story continues to take off.

[Anonymous No.22236734]

>>22235837
>Poet Anon
Thank you for the ideas, bro.

[Anonymous No.22236739]

>>22236591
Paywalling smut to a serial is unlikely to work. At least, I've never seen it. The tried and true tactic is simply having prerelease chapters. If all smut is paywalled then the readers you do have aren't there for the sex scenes. Maybe I'm misunderstanding your strategy.

[Anonymous No.22236783]

>>22236739
You should have paywalled chapters, but paywalled smut should cost more. 25% of smut should be free and the other 75% should be paywalled imo in order to hook people in and then have them pay for the rest. This would be my complete strategy.

[Anonymous No.22236804]

>>22236615
I've never read 50 shades but I assume that the characters are at least not actively irritating and painfully flat. For that guy I mentioned, being a former part of his audience, I dropped his story at chapter 100 when it became clear to me that not only are his writing and characters utterly insufferable, they were becoming more so rather than less so with time. So certainly from my perspective, you can't paper over atrocious writing and narrative. If I am wrong, then I guess I'll proudly take the L.
>In fact, this almost has to be true, because people don't just throw 100k a year to an author with nothing going for him. You think he's bad, but his stories clearly make people want to pay for them.
No, he's not just bad. He's one of the worst I've seen. And I do know how he does this. His first 30 or so chapters were passable, he writes A LOT of this garbage, he commissions good cover art and he games the algo by running a huge clique of people to review spam his shit. The algo promotes the review spammed shit, so more people read it, which helps him game the algo even more. The guy has business acumen and social cunning. He's just a retard and a bad writer.
With that said, I genuinely have no idea why anyone would pay for his trash. I wouldn't read it even if you paid me, except, perhaps in order to laugh at it. I'd never give that guy a cent.
I think you make some good points here though. And I don't wholly disagree either. But this post seems somewhat different from your previous ones to me.

[Anonymous No.22236806]

>>22236568
Post it frog man

[Anonymous No.22236990]

Where do I even look if I want smut with plot?

[Anonymous No.22237138]

>>22236990
Read erotica instead.

[Anonymous No.22237202]

>>22236990
start with the Greeks

[Anonymous No.22237280]

>>22235470
That challenge is all the more brutal nowadays, especially with modern diction’s usage of fr, on god, cap, no cap, etc.

[Anonymous No.22237301]

>>22234452
https://rentry.org/adrift_draft

[Anonymous No.22237321]

>Sent my friend a short something to critique
>Left on read for 40 minutes now
SAY SOMETHING YOU FUCK SAY ANYTHING AAAAAAAAA

[Anonymous No.22237343]

>>22237321
I am sure he has better things to do with his life.

[Anonymous No.22237348]

>>22233592
>No sooner had Satan and his wicked disciples left the diseased planet, that they led the human race away from their creator, and assumed the role themselves as gods. Although they retained their immortality, their use of the ‘gift’, bestowed upon all the creatures in varying degrees and qualities, had been taken away from them after their misuse of it...
The issue here is inconsistent tone. You cannot use words and phrases like "wicked disciples", "bestowed upon", etc. while generally attempting to describe this religious vastness and then randomly switch to a completely casual, banal tone: "assumed the role themselves", "Although they retained their immortality", " after their misuse of it", etc.

[Anonymous No.22237358]

>>22235470

The part I feel you're missing out on is the thing that separates a bad book today from a good book from one hundred years ago - it is not merely a writer's job to take "everyday language" and make it "fresh and meaningful," it's to take any language - any language at all - then make it fresh and meaningful!

There's a reason that people incessantly quote snippets and taglines of H.P. Lovecraft's works. All that "eternal lying never dies, stranger aeons aaaahhh help me niggerman" even though he was deploying language that was considered second-hand with age within his own time. Somehow 86 years or so after his death readers still find his writing uniquely gripping and writers find it frustratingly difficult to imitate.

The problem is that when a writer unintentionally "sounds archaic," it is usually an indemnity on the fact that their language has no meaning. "Curses and balderdash you swineson villain!" said the hero, is not the damning epithet now that it might have been in say, uh, pre-Colonial France? Or worse it's grey prose that has no freshness at all. It simply goes on and on and on and not once does it threaten to raise the reader's pulse past the resting point or inspire an emotion greater than flatulence.

When a writer intentionally tries to "sound archaic" they are cutting out for themselves a massive block of work. They have to take well-worn roads of past-travelled literary adventures and make them fresh again. I read a lot of detective fiction, I like it a lot, but this is the constant war that writers in that field must wage. Debts are owed to story tellers like Dashiell Hammet and Sir Arthur Conan Doyle of such a size and shape that writers have to work overtime just to avoid accidentally borrowing entire books worth of material before they get started.

[Anonymous No.22237380]

What's a litRPG? Sword Art Online in narrative form?

[Anonymous No.22237392]

>>22236086
Product list chapters in American Psycho.

[Anonymous No.22237476]

>>22237380
basically but pretend it's real in another world

[Anonymous No.22237539]

Of you I ask a question, anonymous,
To be a slop lord or to achieve beauty?
You never care how dumb and how grievous
A piece that has a lot of anime and booty.
Be it of ugly prose or a serial for teens,
The common man loves capslock moans.
Literature ripe for bathroom bins
Shall all receive on Royal Roads.
And be it not for the sake of coom,
You'll read what raises lust of wonder,
Still stale, reeking like the reeder's room.
Who cares if works are generated random.
Would not you rather test the limits,
To see anew the fiction world?
Try a fantasy setting poem,
Regardless of the structure sort?
Perhaps I'll write so my story,
Perhaps I won't, to see it read.
Perhaps I can abandon all the worry
And write in prose for common man.

[Anonymous No.22237677]

>>22237380
SAO is gamelit, litRPG is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT

[Anonymous No.22237731]

>>22235397
same to me

https://pastes.io/pdvjko9r0u

[Anonymous No.22237737]

>>22237348
Yea i definitely need to rewrite it. I think I plotted too ambitiously.

[Anonymous No.22237756]

POV: I’m an experienced screenwriter—and I’m also on welfare:
https://www.fastcompany.com/90918934/my-story-highlights-the-importance-of-the-writers-strike
In short...we shouldn't beat ourselves up for not being successful writers.

[Anonymous No.22237762]

I need to conjure a title as effortlessly elegant as "A Midsummer Night's Dream."

[Anonymous No.22237771]

>>22237756
>25
>Write a memoir
The fuck? What experiences do you even have to share with others at age 25?

[Anonymous No.22237914]

>>22236990
depends on what kind of plot

[Anonymous No.22237917]

>>22237771
You could always look it up, seething sloth pseud.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/55257612-girl-undressed

[Anonymous No.22237943]

>>22237917
>Manhattan drugs, dancers, and sex parties
No thanks. This is as bad as that H-mart memoir. A girl is writing about her experiences shopping at H-Mart.

[Anonymous No.22237950]

>>22237943
I can only assume you're deliberately missing the point.
What a failed-crab mentality.

[Anonymous No.22237995]

Is creating a "mystery" because I don't know how to finish a story line a valid writing strategy?

[Anonymous No.22238047]

How many words of a novel is actually plot vs character vs setting? By plot I mean action. By character I mean descriptions of physical appearances, emotions and thoughts.

I am currently reading the three musketeers and it is about 10% plot and 90% characterisation and setting. I might be wrong though so I just want someone else's thoughts on this

[Anonymous No.22238061]

>>22238047
Depends on the genre. For sci-fi 50% lore, 20% characterisation and 30% plot might be acceptable. For high fantasy it's more of an equal distribution.

[Anonymous No.22238119]

>>22237995
Sure. If the screenwriters for Silo did it, why not you?

[Anonymous No.22238164]

>>22238119
It’s pretty much a whole genre of television programming (the LOST ripoffs).

[Anonymous No.22238176]

>>22238061
Lore? So sci-fi and fantasy are for shitty writers. Got it.

[Anonymous No.22238190]

>>22238176
You're talking to someone who's understanding of the genre comes more from video games and dungeons and dragons instead actual books. Rule number one of this place is to ignore retards and never engage with them, lest you become one yourself.

[Anonymous No.22238198]

>>22238176
Your insecurity is palpable.
Why don't you post what you like to write, so we can mindlessly shit all over it. It's only fair.

[Anonymous No.22238211]

>>22238198

https://pastes.io/pdvjko9r0u

[Anonymous No.22238223]

>>22238211
>Bad spelling/punctuation/grammar
This is my surprised face. :-|

[Anonymous No.22238227]

>>22238190
>don't understand
>he must be a retard because of how genius I am
Science Fiction is a genre that only lives on world concepts, on technology that changes it. If you don't know about it you're assuming some shit like science fantasy and projecting game lore obsession on my opinion.

[Anonymous No.22238267]

>>22238198
You’re the one who has to defend his shitty genre writing.

[Anonymous No.22238282]

>>22238267
I'm not even sure who you're talking about.
And defining "genre writing" to your tastes, then condemning it all as "shitty", is circular reasoning.

[Anonymous No.22238291]

>>22238223
example?

[Anonymous No.22238326]

>>22238291
It's not really worth my time, but here's a few.
>On the 200 000 000th year of the BVI (Before Vanessa Ska) calendar, the Creator of Heaven and Earth called forth all to look upon the new creature that was Man, who had something that the angels did not, a place of their own.
The last comma should be an em-dash.
Dare I ask why Before Vanessa Ska is abbreviated BVI instead of BVS?
>An unusual event occurred in the mind of one angel at that gathering of eyes, a jealousy began to stir within his, and he formed his own opinion, independent of God, and he, with his new followers, began to plot at that very moment for humanity’s destruction.
The first comma should be either a period or semicolon.
"stir within his" -> "stir within him"
There is also no explanation of why the "one angel" has "new followers".
>wreck havoc
Do you mean "wreak havoc"?
I really don't care to read much further.
Either you're ESL or you're an illiterate.

[Anonymous No.22238329]

>>22238282
So you’re too dumb to keep up with this conversation? Your writing must be unmitigated shit.

[Anonymous No.22238341]

Please stop engaging with the troll, morons. He couldn't be more obvious but you're still falling for it.

[Anonymous No.22238361]

>>22238341
I’ve lurked these threads for a long time. There’s no distinction between a troll and everyone else.

[Anonymous No.22238384]

>>22238329
If >>22238211 is your writing, then you're an expert on unmitigated shit.

[Anonymous No.22238389]

>>22238341
He's not a troll, just a pretentious snobby asshole. He always has something shitty to say.

[Anonymous No.22238409]

I wrote this bullshit for my fantasy novel, intended to be found by the characters in between dimensional rift. Like a void space I guess. anyway would love any feedback. this is freshly typed and I have proofread it thoroughly as I can, and you know how it is with freshly typed paragraphs, lotta blind spots.


My little fishes floats beyond our barren dusted bay. They swam from fields to fielded urn of griefless funeral, to a corpse filled hole of longing morticle, to a dead sea of endless morn, yet none has settled for more than fifty mond! … a lie, a dirty despicable untruth yet spoken of my childish dream, my children, they live more than fifty mond, endless wandering, dive and dip on every strings leave none untouched then what comes after? May the bay of your morticled vessel filled itself? will it remain a cadaver? what of its cortical?

note: a mond is 1.3 human year, morticle is a word somewhere between death and a non living object (imagine a soil)

[Anonymous No.22238428]

>>22238409
>I have proofread it thoroughly as I can
>My little fishes floats

[Anonymous No.22238433]

>>22238428
yes i mean it literally floats on the air, fishes are souls.

[Anonymous No.22238436]

>>22238428
>>22238433
ah i'm retarded, i see what you mean now. sorry this is what i meant by blind spots.

[Anonymous No.22238439]

>>22238433
I hope you are ESL, otherwise you are a retard beyond saving.

[Anonymous No.22238447]

>>22238439
Is this miserable attitude the fate of all literature snobs? Or just this one? Thank god I write genre

[Anonymous No.22238457]

>>22238439
I am an ESL, really sorry. Trying to apply what i've learnt about word stresses. here's a revision.

My little fishes float beyond our barren, dusted bay. They swam from fields to fielded urn of griefless funeral, to a corpse-filled hole of longing morticle, to a dead sea of endless morn. Yet none has settled for more than fifty monds! … A lie, a dirty, despicable untruth, yet spoken of my childish dream. My children, they live more than fifty monds, dive and dip on every strings leave none untouched then what comes after? May the bay of your morticled vessel fill itself? will it remain a cadaver? what of its cortical?

[Anonymous No.22238484]

>>22238326
dude, it's a rough draft.


Are you okay?

[Anonymous No.22238506]

>>22238484
I mean, the request was literally "Post what you write so we can mindlessly shit on it." What did you expect, exactly?

[Anonymous No.22238515]

what the fuck?

at first my first person prose was much better than my third person prose, and now, after reading several short stories written in the third person, my third person prose is infinitely better than not only what it had been before, but also my improved first person prose.

it’s like an unlimited struggle. i might be going about this the wrong way via discriminating first person and third person prose as two entirely seperate things to be improved seperately. i might also be going too deep into prose autism and should probably return to writing for fun in order to fuel my motivation for delving into prose autism and etc. in order to become a better writer.

[Anonymous No.22238577]

>>22238484
Not that we can expect anyone to actually read the OP beyond "mmm...boobies", but this is posted in each one:
>If you have not performed a cursory proofread, do not expect to be treated kindly. Edit your work for spelling and grammar before posting.
Also, for you to shit on other writer's tastes, when your writing is so poor, speaks to an amazing lack of self-awareness (and that's being kind).

[Anonymous No.22238621]

>>22238326
Not that anon, but can you give some pointers for when to use an emdash instead of a comma? Because in the first example I thought the comma was appropriate.

[Anonymous No.22238666]

>>22238621
You use an emdash as if you are raising your voice. It's for emphasis. Commas are just brief pauses.

[Anonymous No.22238668]

>>22233545
What would be some ways a person might try to prove their love to someone they've deeply hurt and pushed away before?

I was thinking that the two would have had a fantasy world growing up (like Terabithia) and the one who hurt the other would try and recreate it for the two of them

[Anonymous No.22238692]

>>22238666
I thought they were used for asides?

"So I went to Bob's house the other day--that's my friend from work--but weirdly, he wasn't home."

There's no 'raised voice' there.

[Anonymous No.22238707]

>>22238692
You can use em dashes to emphasize the end of your sentence or a clause within it. It doesn't mean that it is an aside, it means you are emphasizing it. It is like raising the inflection of your voice. If it was an aside, as in less relevant, you would use parentheses. In contemporary writing, people rarely use parentheses and would rather use commas or not even mention it at all.

[Anonymous No.22238723]

>>22238707
Anon, I really don't know if this is true. I definitely see almost all modern authors using em-dashes as asides, or even extended commas. Maybe what you're saying is the textbook definition, but I don't think it's how modern authors use them (and convention defines language; language isn't static. How people use it IS how the language works).

[Anonymous No.22238787]

>let my writing muscle atrophy for 3 months
>shit sucks
Most importantly, I feel like I'm telling too large a story for the medium. IT opens like this, but the meat of the story is this character being lead through the gutter of the world by this virgil stand in (in this draft a wholly unformed and mostly silent observer, so a failure), so how can I spend 1000 words here?
I'm not too worried about the messy writing, it'll come out in the wash of a few drafts, but I find the structure of the short story weirdly entrapping. Like, my mind has ideas 1k words at a time and in a short story that results in 5 pieces running into each other eh.
Thamk u for read my diary.

[Anonymous No.22238888]

>>22238787
first paragraph-- put a period after 'heavy metal object', new sentence with 'The detectives"

For the impact site, the sentence itself is fine, but stylistically, it may make more impact as its own statement. "The detectives believed with a tool of some kind, possibly a hammer. But the size of the impact site suggested a something larger, more brutal."

[Anonymous No.22238973]

>>22238888
Arigato.
Why do we ever let ourselves fall out of the rhythm of writing? Coming back to it after a long layoff makes me feel as if I've never written fiction in my life. Who can be so retarded?

[Anonymous No.22238981]

Okay, I wrote a part of a prologue after a couple months of not writing. At least I did something with my idle life, gotta give myself a pat on the back for that.
YOU give yourself a pat on the back if you wrote something today. Do it, physically do it now. I won't stop until you've done it. There we go! Good boy.

[Anonymous No.22238996]

>>22238981
hot

[Anonymous No.22239012]

>>22238981
I wrote two lines in the outlines&ideas folder. Nervously patting my head.

[Anonymous No.22239193]

Do you listen to music while you write?

I use a variety of instrumental pieces, personally, ranging from video game music to Buckethead.

[Anonymous No.22239205]

>>22239193
I listen to my weeb anime music. The cheerful mood and upbeat pace makes for terrific writing. Every beat synchronizes with every tap from my fingertips.

[Anonymous No.22239215]

Just read a fanfiction on ao3. I expected trash yet my self esteem is now in tatters, how so?.

[Anonymous No.22239220]

>>22239215
Can you link it?

[Anonymous No.22239248]

>>22239215
there are some amazing fanfiction writers. They write so much they eventually learn to write very well. The Charles Dickens' method.

[Anonymous No.22239263]

>>22239215

[Anonymous No.22239262]

>>22239193
this is my current favorite

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asniga8NReM

[Anonymous No.22239306]

>>22238981
I am eating and my T-shirt is not super clean so I punched my back instead. Is that okay?
>>22239193
I used to but not anymore, now the slightest noise is a distraction.

[Anonymous No.22239347]

>>22238981
I gave myself a pat on the back for finishing up a chapter that I was hung up on the ending of for the past couple of days. :D

[Anonymous No.22239606]

what's your favorite piece of writing you've seen on /wg/?

[Anonymous No.22239619]

>>22239606
I don't read, so I guess it'd have to be my own.

[Anonymous No.22239629]

>>22239606
Someone calling himself Hell-Anon started writing a novel about an Internet troll going to Hell, and I enjoyed it greatly, but I haven't heard from him in a long time.

[Anonymous No.22239654]

>>22239606
i have lots of admiration for KillList anon. his prose is publishable and I'm not sure why he still posts here, but yea

[Anonymous No.22239661]

>>22239606
My own

[Anonymous No.22239696]

>>22239654
His issue is speed. 45k words across 14 months won't get you anywhere if you're trying to be a professional. But yeah, I think his prose might be the best I've seen of stories or excerpts posted to /wg/.

Which is admittedly not the highest praise, because the few professionals who do frequent 4chan don't share their work here. Just a terrible idea from a career standpoint.

[Anonymous No.22239704]

>>22233561
On the other hand, there are persistent fools who press on with one bad idea for their entire life. So other things are important. Iteration, for one.

[Anonymous No.22239706]

>>22239696
I suppose I should clarify that I mean 'best' in the category of clean, workman-like prose.

[Anonymous No.22239718]

>>22239696
What about his prose makes it the 'best'? Curious from the perspective of a person trying to begin as a writer, and being the best among "amateurs" seems like a worthy pursuit.

[Anonymous No.22239723]

>>22234926
Am I to understand that exposition openings are bad? I feel like they work sometimes. I bet there are some famous works of great literature that use it.

[Anonymous No.22239734]

>>22239723
Anon you could shuffle them around and nothing changes

[Anonymous No.22239756]

>>22239718
Most people here fail to write a chapter without constant SP&G issues. If they do clear that (lowest possible) bar, then they'll usually have poor flow. In case you don't know what I mean by 'flow', that's where a reader's attention isn't pausing or snagging on sentences or word choice and thinking, 'huh, this is odd'. You'll understand if you've read any amateur work.

There's too many factors that go into 'clean, simple prose' to list them all without making a full blog post. Or even a book on the topic. But in short, go read Kill List, and you can see that it flows well and the prose isn't intrusive, and you can simply read without being bothered (for the most part). That's something little to no excerpts here manage, and is generally what people will call 'publishable', along with a few other factors.

I wouldn't actually say he has GOOD prose, though. That's a compliment reserved for mastery of the language.

[Anonymous No.22239772]

>>22239756
You sound like a bitter spastic. Maybe make something yourself.

[Anonymous No.22239779]

>>22239723
Exposition is boring for the reader.
Scene structure is goal, conflict, and outcome (usually disaster).
Exposition is "hurr durr look at my overly clever worldbuilding which could literally be anything".

[Anonymous No.22239799]

>>22239772
Wait, what about what I said is bitter? I regard Kill List Anon as a competent workman-like genre writer. But he certainly doesn't have mastery over the language. By the standards of actual professionals, he is merely standard or worse, not someone with 'good prose'.

Or are you mad that I said most excerpts here can't even clear the SP&G bar? That's just factual, though.

And I have made something of myself, by the way. Yes, in the field of writing fiction.

[Anonymous No.22239819]

>>22239799
I am glad you have. It would be sad if you hadn't.

[Anonymous No.22239825]

>>22233545
Not sure if it is a great idea, but I am of half a mind to ape Lovecraftian Horror, but set it in 1800s/1700s Norway.

[Anonymous No.22239847]

>>22239756
I'm the anon you originally responded to. What's SP&G?

[Anonymous No.22239853]

>>22239847
Spelling and grammar. Though I've never seen anyone use that acronym.

[Anonymous No.22239858]

>>22239756
>>22239756
>>22239654
Kill list anon here. These kinds of posts really are very kind, and I'm happy to know folks are reading and enjoying the stuff I put out. 45k words in a year is INCREDIBLY slow, and I'm trying to improve my speed as time goes along. As far as hobby writing goes, I'm not unhappy with my progress, but improvement is something I definitely strive for.

For the anon mentioning mastery of the language, what are some things that exhibit said mastery? I'd love to push further to achieve that state, but given most of my modern reads are pulp; and my newest "old" read is Steinbeck, where should I look to improve my mastery?

Thanks for all the kind words, again. You guys are incredibly kind.

[Anonymous No.22239859]

>>22239819
What are you on about?

Even if I didn't have any authority or success behind me, it's okay to call Kill List Anon middling or worse on the professional writer scale. If you open any (okay, most) popular genre novel and compare the prose inside to Kill List, the novel would probably win. That isn't to say he's bad on an objective scale--just that the only scale that should matter is 'publishable or not'. The so-called 'amateur scale' is pointless to even consider, unless you desperately need validation. Which is fine if you do, I suppose. But I don't understand why you became so angry.

What I'm getting at is that you can be an amateur and still recognize different levels of competency, even if it exceeds yours. In fact, if you can't, I might have to say you're NGMI.

[Anonymous No.22239876]

>>22239858
>these posts are very kind
>calls your work shit

cuck, kys

[Anonymous No.22239882]

>>22239859
No one cares about your gay little pokemon hierarchy of writing, anon. What is good speaks for itself, and so does what is bad. If you were trying to pigeonhole people into different writer categories you would just be a spastic, but as it is, with this pretentious air of being a critic, you just look like a bitter asshole.
How's this sound? Instead of spending so much time classifying writing and establishing comparisons as if this was some kind of entomology society scrutinising the different features of beetles, we could all just, you know, write, and go as far as we can go.

[Anonymous No.22239892]

>>22239882
>go as far as we can go
This inherently implies some kind of hierarchy or order.

[Anonymous No.22239895]

>>22239882
He was only giving constructive feedback, which I find useful as a writer in, well, /wg/. I come here and post here (4chan) to get *honest* feedback from people who lean towards the critical side of things. If anything, his criticism WAS kind.

[Anonymous No.22239899]

>>22239876
I called his work average or worse on a professional scale, which means I could see him being a professional, though not an exceptional one (at his current level). Seeing how he's not a veteran, this is a compliment and means he could very well make a career out of it.

You should work on your basic reading comprehension, anon.

[Anonymous No.22239910]

>>22239882
I want you to reread my posts, then read yours, then take a long moment to consider who's the bitter spastic in this situation.

[Anonymous No.22239918]

>>22239858
how can someone write so well in fiction yet so unfocused and hairbrained in forum posts

[Anonymous No.22239921]

>>22239892
Sure, but most crucially, it doesn't imply the necessity for being the kind of queer who's constantly handing out verdicts on what is "good", "bad" or "middling".
>>22239895
I don't really give a shit what you think. I hate seeing queer shit like this, so I call it out for what it is whenever I see it. If you like offering ego boosts to this kind of guys, be my guest. Just don't expect me to do the same. Thank you.

[Anonymous No.22239939]

>>22239918
>misspells "harebrained"
illiterate
opinion discarded

[Anonymous No.22239940]

>>22239910
No need.

[Anonymous No.22239941]

>>22239921
What would you rather have? An endless echo chamber of amateurs calling themselves professionals? For quality not to be discussed at all? What's your utopia /wg/? I'm not even asking to instigate. I'm just curious at this point.

[Anonymous No.22239945]

>>22239940
Ah, well. I'm not surprised that self reflection is beyond someone like you.

[Anonymous No.22239953]

>>22239941
Discussion of technique and content rather than worthless, personal value judgements. What is important is the work and the craft, not a rank list of works and craftsmen, or worse, a rank list of critics.

[Anonymous No.22239956]

>>22239941
you're ingoring someone asking for feedback as you argue with as troll, that tell me enough

[Anonymous No.22239960]

>scrap EVERYTHING and start over
>the words flow like water
How?

[Anonymous No.22239962]

>>22239953
Some people post work because they want to know where they stand--whether they're 'good enough' to some standard. I'd say most people post work for that reason, actually. Of course, personal value judgments are all that can be offered in this situation (in writing, what else is there?). I literally don't understand your viewpoint.

[Anonymous No.22239967]

>>22239956
Kill List Anon asked me how to achieve mastery of a language, which is a topic a few dozen living authors have any real insight into. That's my response.

[Anonymous No.22239997]

>>22239962
Really sad if true. I can't imagine having my self-image as a writer depend on the opinions of 4chan anons.
I don't wholly disagree with you but I think there is a clear difference between discussing the technical side of writing, where it is usually rather clear what is in need of further work, and just giving a verdict on something, as if one is some kind of authority.

[Anonymous No.22240003]

>>22239960
I suspect it's a case of practice makes perfect, anon.

[Anonymous No.22240006]

>>22239606
There's a homosexual pirate piece I liked. I haven't seen it in a long while. Probably dropped.

[Anonymous No.22240052]

>>22239997
Anon asked 'what's the best writing you've found in /wg/'? I replied to a different reply about Kill List Anon with my subjective opinion. Completely in line with the discussion topic on a discussion board. Following that, you had a mental breakdown.

Just so you understand the series of events. It almost seems like you don't.

To address -this- post, who said anything about self-image depending on the quality of one's writing? I said some people post their work so they can know if they're 'good enough' or 'publishable' or whatever else. Nobody linked self-worth to this except for you. Literally just you--it didn't even enter my mind (or anyone else's). Please realize you are projecting to a comical degree. I can only infer that you have deeply rooted insecurities about your writing and that's what prompted this.

Finally, I suppose we could use /wg/ only to discuss technique. But why? It's fine to use a discussion board to find out from peers whether your work is publishable, or even 'good' to randoms. The only person having a breakdown over it is you.

[Anonymous No.22240086]

>>22239918
NTA but I almost never edit my posts.
Editing puts time on your side and you can sound smarter than you actually are. To a certain extent, that is how authors can make characters even smarter than the author himself.
A lot of my extended family never even graduated high school so even though I have a lot of education, I still talk like a fucking retard most of the time. Not going to bother correcting it.

[Anonymous No.22240097]

>>22239606

[Anonymous No.22240209]

>>22240052
>Anon asked 'what's the best writing you've found in /wg/'?
Incorrect.
Although I suppose that perhaps I should've addressed you and that other anon (?) in plural. It is still not super clear to me which one of you two I have been speaking with (if it's even two people and not one), since there's an overlap in terminology. Anyway, your post specifically seemed so egregious that it left a much stronger impression on me and demanded a response. But I suppose you may not have been the only bitter spastic in the thread. Rejoice.
>who said anything about self-image depending on the quality of one's writing?
The anon I replied to implied that "some people" come here in order to receive some kind of /wg/ seal of approval as proof that they are "good enough". This seems profoundly sad to me, so I remarked on it. I am getting the sense that you don't get why this is sad, so allow me to explain - it is because in this case, aspiring writers would be seeking validation from this crab bucket website instead of trusting in themselves and their creative vision. Skill is its own proof, and it does not depend on acknowledgement by anyone - not by a critic, not by an audience, and not by a bunch of anons on 4chan. In the first place, the very question "am I a good enough writer" is pointless. If you want to be good, work at it. Skill will emerge organically over time. That's it. There's no reason to overcomplicate it.
I also find it amusingly ironic that you accuse me of projecting insecurity. Let us leave it at that.

[Anonymous No.22240240]

>write 2k words
>feel tired
Should I stop? Is it possible to pull a mental muscle by going further and exhausting myself? I'd rather train myself up so I can maintain a steady pace again...

[Anonymous No.22240275]

I wish someone liked my work

[Anonymous No.22240323]

>>22240240
Depends on what kind of tired you feel. If it is a physical tired, you can keep going. If you feel a dry sensation in your heart and soul, then you should stop, since you're burning yourself out.

[Anonymous No.22240324]

>>22240209
If your goal is to be published, then asking the opinion of the public is, in fact, a normal thing to do, and you can receive valuable feedback from the experience. Again, it has nothing to do with self-worth--that's something only you drew a comparison to (and it's why I mentioned insecurity).

I can tell this is one of those arguments that's going nowhere. You're making statements I agree with as if they're relevant. Skill does emerge over time ... thanks for mentioning it. You don't even seem to understand what I'm saying.

Frankly, I get the impression of a non-professional or even stark beginner who's obsessed with writing as some kind of mystical art. I know this might not be true, but your responses indicate it. Getting feedback and opinions from a discussion board is perfectly fine. No, staunchly ignoring feedback in the pursuance of "staying true to yourself" isn't good advice. It's a perspective children and amateurs (or, admittedly, some extreme visionaries who cannot and should not be imitated by the masses) have. But some people are trying to write normal fiction and want feedback from a discussion board. They're not aiming to create the next transcendent piece of literature. They don't tie the responses directly to their self worth. They just want to know what people think. Which people like me provide.

In short, chill the fuck out. This general isn't only for pseuds. We'll tolerate you, but seriously--chill the fuck out.

[Anonymous No.22240392]

>Want to write
>Don't feel like writing

[Anonymous No.22240401]

>>22239661
this, only i really mean it

[Anonymous No.22240455]

>>22235171
>It seemed, however, to Kurt, who,
>Kurt became very pale, and, wanting to please the older boy, forced himself an anxious smile; but,
You don’t need half of these commas.
Phrases like “all of a sudden” and “instantly” usually aren’t needed, and you should consider trimming your number of adverbs and verbs on dialogue. Not every spoken sentence needs to be said “tearfully” or “stammered” or “cried”. The reader isn’t going to forget the character in question is currently in distress when they’re talking if you stop mentioning it.

[Anonymous No.22240469]

Still working on my crime novel. I actually got the first part of the novel written, but it sure needs a lot of editing. Mostly because I'm working with a large cast. Main character meets four separate friends, and tries to get them on board for a heist he is planning. It's four chapters of him meeting a friend, and convincing them. I fear that on a good day, it's too hollywood (I'm putting together a team - montage), and on a bad day, it's too repetitive. So the obvious answer would be to just get them together in one place and have them all hear it the same time? Well, I need some down time at the start, to establish the characters, as it is a character driven story. Having 5 people talk over each other, is kinda difficult to write, especially when I need to establish character. So individual approach seems better.

[Anonymous No.22240621]

>wife has been writing a fantasy book
>her prose sucks too bad to even give advice
>tell her I'll just rewrite it better and show her how it's done
>Stay up to 3am yesterday writing the first chapter
>she really wants to see it
>tell her to wait
>I go back and reread what I wrote
>It fucking sucks

How am I going to live this down, guys?

[Anonymous No.22240626]

>>22240392
There are millions of chodes just like you, who think you could create something worth writing if only you wrote something. You are a mediocrity.

[Anonymous No.22240644]

>>22240626
Are you one of them?

[Anonymous No.22240665]

>>22240469
Eh, go with the one by one. What's the harm? It's only too cliche if you write it in this way.
I read a book, very good, Feast of The Goat, where the author rigidly held to "one character intro per chapter, one idea explored per chapter". You obviously saw the seams, noticed the stringent adherence to a simple structure, but how do you care? It was good, it was interesting, it worked. Go ham big dawg. The written word ain't the medium for 5 people talkign at once unless you are very skilled.

[Anonymous No.22240810]

>>22240324
I don't remember asking for your tolerance, retard. Do as you wish, just don't expect me to tolerate you.

[Anonymous No.22240816]

Can someone help me. I tried my best, but it doesn't feel smutty enough.

[Anonymous No.22240825]

>>22240392
Here's how to fix this.
Make yourself nice, warm tea. Drink it slowly and think about nothing while drinking it other than the taste. Take deep breaths in between sips. Once you're finished, declare your intention verbally - I wish to write. Repeat it a few times, elaborating why you wish to write. Picture yourself writing. Picture yourself typing on your computer. And of course - don't have any distractions open.
Try it and see how it goes. I wish you the best of luck.
>>22240621
By realising that one day this will be a fond memory of you and your wife spending time on something you are passionate about :)

[Anonymous No.22240837]

I need some help with this smut. It doesn't feel smutty enough. Any suggestions?

[Anonymous No.22240945]

A new chapter of the Kill List is out. Chapter 16 marks both the longest chapter in the book so far, as well as the 'ending' to part 1 of the book's plot. Now, I'll take a month or so to edit the first sixteen chapters before moving on to the rest of the book.

https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/54622/the-kill-list/chapter/1271484/chapter-16-to-burn-the-world

Any feedback on the plot, prose, or *anything*, really, would be helpful. Thanks again to those giving the time to provide input, it really is valued.

As this chapter gives the main character quite a lot of development, I would be particularly interested in feedback on it.

[Anonymous No.22240993]

>>22239220
To The Stars on AO3.
>>22239248
Unironically i start writing my own fanfic with exactly that in mind.
>>22239263
kek, thanks for that chart. I am nearly hundred percent sure that this is written by an actual professional. Not sure why they choose to tie it down with an existing IP though, so much wasted potential.

[Anonymous No.22240996]

>>22240993
>Unironically i start writing my own fanfic with exactly that in mind.
i am currently starting to write*

[Anonymous No.22241007]

>>22240993
>Not sure why they choose to tie it down with an existing IP though
Fun

[Anonymous No.22241075]

>>22240621
Maybe you shouldn't have tried to show off like a retard

[Anonymous No.22241077]

>>22239606
There were a couple of pretty interesting snippets posted a year or two ago, but apparently, on being praised, the authors judged themselves too good for /wg/ as they were never seen again.

[Anonymous No.22241085]

>>22237917
>"A young British womanbroke and out of luckdoes battle with Manhattans underworld"

What language is this?

[Anonymous No.22241093]

>>22240945
I really enjoy how you’ve ran Isadora’s character arc. At first, she really was just a brat. Now? Cutting herself to explode soldiers? Pretty metal, on top of giving her a heart finally. Good shit

[Anonymous No.22241097]

>>22241077
Have you any examples from the archives?

[Anonymous No.22241205]

reminder: it's three spacebars, not one tab

[Anonymous No.22241310]

I want to write a short story set in my verse. What should I do?
My goal is to post the complete story on Royal Road.

[Anonymous No.22241317]

>>22241310
why not publish it during the main story publication, on a week where you messed up or have no chapter ready? or maybe between main arcs

[Anonymous No.22241332]

oooookay, I was told to ground the reader into the world so I tried doing that. are you grounded? what do I change?
>inb4 everything
and yes ESL

[Anonymous No.22241420]

>>22241332
There should be something in your very first paragraph that catches the reader's attention. All I really received from what you've written was that two boys jumped of an old truck

[Anonymous No.22241465]

>>22238577
If the OP said to jump off a bridge would you do it?

[Anonymous No.22241472]

>>22240455
thanks

[Anonymous No.22241480]

I'm abandoning my novel 42k words into it because I am bored of the plot and the flat characters and the genre I picked (mecha).

I just want to improve by writing short stories for competitions.

[Anonymous No.22241489]

Does anyone know of any online writing groups? I don't care about sharing my stuff, I'd just like to chat with people that have similar interests.

[Anonymous No.22241670]

How detailed are your character backstories? Do you find that the effort pays off?

[Anonymous No.22241770]

>>22239606
The pancake thing

[Anonymous No.22241780]

>>22240837
Why is all normie smut like this

[Anonymous No.22242003]

>>22241780
It's not. Anon didn't use a single cock or pussy and not even fuck or harder. If anything it's a really strange sex scene

[Anonymous No.22242012]

>>22233545
AIrtists are insufferable.

[Anonymous No.22242035]

Is it worth paying a fivver editor $4-5k ?

[Anonymous No.22242061]

>>22241205
reminder: it's the "first line indent" paragraph-style setting in your word processor
three spaces? what is this, 1975?

[Anonymous No.22242064]

>>22241465
That's specious reasoning.
The OP was trying to prevent your writing from getting shit on over spelling/grammar/punctuation.
You dismiss that advice at your own peril.

[Anonymous No.22242069]

>>22242012
Strawman argument.
People who generate images with AI don't consider themselves artists.

[Anonymous No.22242110]

>>22241205
I thought it was five spacebars. Either way I like a single tab. The large indent makes it easier to read

[Anonymous No.22242127]

how do i write stuff like xavier renegade angel?

[Anonymous No.22242133]

I just started rewriting it and even made a game to help me better describe the scenes and help me with the dialogue.

[Anonymous No.22242139]

>>22242133
I also have this.

[Anonymous No.22242161]

>>22242127
If you have to ask, you probably don't have it in you. Do you know the anatomy of a joke?

[Anonymous No.22242162]

>>22242127
It's incredibly dense with witty puns and strange jokes. Too much to just write on like you would write books. I guess ypu would have to construct it slowly.

[Anonymous No.22242182]

>>22242161
Nta, but tell me the anatomy of a joke.

[Anonymous No.22242188]

>>22242064
>specious reasoning.


no it isn't

[Anonymous No.22242208]

>>22242182
The premise setup, the expectation of normality and the subversion of that expectation. Note this applies to jokes entirely, but can apply to funny stories. This is why most minority comics and writers are not very funny. You can look upon them and know exactly what is coming.

Does anybody know a means by which a man not in education can submit an unsolicited essay to a professor or academic for grading?

[Anonymous No.22242227]

>>22242182
Jokes are malleable and highly context dependent but usually it's something like
>set up, pull rug, punchline
Your best bet is just taking lots of reference. Look at all the comedy you watch with a critical eye, dissect it and look at how and why it works. Get a transcript of the stuff that makes you laugh, those usually help me understand. Being funny is usually something you learn on the job through practice though, asking here is pretty worthless for improvement. Plus XRE already sets the bar quite high for someone who doesn't know how to write jokes, it's like when new game devs decide their first game will be an immersive 3D MMORPG. Slow down and practice making Pong first.

But here is some important advice that 90% of authors don't know that is a major hurdle to writing good jokes. HAVE FAITH IN YOUR READER. So many stories are made so painfully unfunny because the author explains all the jokes as they tell them just in case the reader didn't get it. Also, don't be discouraged if your jokes suck in your draft, jokes have to be reworked and reworked until you know where to put the set ups and punchlines. I was writing something once and for the longest time it just fet awkward. So I took a later scene and moved it earlier, and suddenly the whole thing worked so much better. Most jokes are shit until they're edited and edited to have just the right timing and impact.

[Anonymous No.22242230]

>>22233545
I like reading but have never really wrote before, but I think I want to try writing something, just to try out of curiosity. I was thinking of knocking out a novel as quickly as possible, regardless of how bad it will be.

[Anonymous No.22242258]

>>22242035
I wouldn't pay that much to edit a novel unless there's a great resume. Also, don't pay that much without a sample edit first. You should query five editors first to see which ones are in your budget and edit in a way that fits your writing.

[Anonymous No.22242299]

>>22241097
I don't remember enough about them to search.

[Anonymous No.22242429]

>>22242069
My mistake, let me correct myself... People who generate images with AI are insufferable.

[Anonymous No.22242461]

>>22242429
Can you give an example?
I'm unaware of people who generate images with AI trying to attract attention to themselves at all.

[Anonymous No.22242528]

>>22242188
>>22242429
Ugh...4channers really are the dregs of the Internet.
All of the social impairment of nerds, but with none of the brains.

[Anonymous No.22242561]

>>22242528
>All of the social impairment of nerds, but with none of the brains
That sums 4chan up pretty well.

[Anonymous No.22242565]

I feel like writing is a sort of exercise in attempting to articulate, in words, a thought as true to that thoughts essence as possible. Yet one finds that they can only get asymptotically close to “truly” articulating any single actual thought. Ths thought Is actually not even reliably expressed in how it’s articulated in the inner monologue where we find it linguistically manifested first. It exists before hand as conscious intuition and perhaps before even that as an unconscious intuition or even perhaps the result of unconscious reasoning based on logic and experience. Either way that “thought”, perhaps the “thing in itself” for thoughts, is “that which we must pass over in silence” according yo Wittgenstein, In a way I am just kinda restating what he already formulated but hey I guess that’s why they say philosophy pretty much ended with him

[Anonymous No.22242571]

>>22241077
Happens all the time. People come for feedback. They get crabbed or given shit advice. They don't come back.

[Anonymous No.22242576]

>>22242565
I had this revelation too, I draw and I noticed art is the same. This is why I'd be useless in live debate where I don't have as much leniency to refine my words to mean only what I intend.

[Anonymous No.22242577]

>>22242571
Yeah but I want advice on character and plot but people crititising me for spelling and grammar is useless to me.

[Anonymous No.22242594]

>>22242577
If a basic component like spelling and grammar is ass, your more complex components are going to be godawful. It's an intelligence litmus test.

[Anonymous No.22242607]

trying to write a convivial scene in my beach bum horror
I'm largely over quirks of punctuation but I wrote the intiial print of this scene a year ago and so haven't updated the grammar

[Anonymous No.22242609]

>>22242133
There's something seriously wrong with your first sentence but I can't place my finger on it. I think it's too passive.

[Anonymous No.22242622]

>>22242594
SPG critiques are largely useless and I feel, self gratifying for the critiquer. Allows him to pad out his flimsy feedback with pure content. It also requires the least amount of thought and skill of any flavour of critique. It doesn't serve the feedback requester (syntax correction isn't SPG), and it doesn't serve any third party trying to learn.
Even your justification reveals your self serving motivations.

[Anonymous No.22242637]

>>22242622
I'm confused. Arguing about it surely is way more effort than simply fixing it.

[Anonymous No.22242645]

>>22242609
It's screenwriter syndrome.

[Anonymous No.22242661]

>>22242622
More than anything SPG mistakes show a lack of care towards one own's writing. If you, the author, don't care about what you wrote, why should we? Why should anyone?

[Anonymous No.22242669]

>>22242637
Non sequitur. If your critique provides no surplus value compared to a built-in spell check, then you have no reason to give it. Usually I'll mention something like SG in an aside, after a larger, more substantive critique. If you leave a critique that is purely you reporting 10% of the Grammarly recommendations, you didn't give that critique for the writer, but rather in order to satisfy some urge you have to shit on someone with the least effort possible. It's purely self gratifying.

Truly, in writing groups it's always the SPGfag that is iced out for being useless and abrasive. It's hard to even find an analogy for how trivial this sort of feedback is without being preceeded by comments of substance. Unless the SPG is so bad that the writer cannot be understood, as is the case with some ESLs, but then it's not really SPG, it's syntax correction.

>>22242661
No, if you've ever written you'll know that SPG errors usually persist even until the final draft, and sometimes past it. Professional editors for professional authors clean up SPG errors. There's some desire for superiority with the least justification possible. And honestly, if you do not care, why respond at all?

[Anonymous No.22242670]

>>22242622
If you do have frequent SPG issues then you should get those out of the way first IMO. I don't agree they mean other aspects must be shit but it's such an easy way to improve quality and they distract from the content. They genuinely make it harder for me to give more in-depth feedback.

[Anonymous No.22242671]

>>22242594
>people with bad grammar don't have complex thoughts
top pseudpost of the thread

[Anonymous No.22242687]

>>22242669
Ah, you're trolling.

[Anonymous No.22242692]

>>22242669
They persist on the fringes, not from the first paragraph onward. And I usually don't bother responding because people who write with such carelessness aren't the type to take advice (SPG or otherwise) anyway.

[Anonymous No.22242699]

I am in the world as a listless thing, waiting to run out of time. A prison can be a lot of things; I am a prisoner of ideas. What I think, is thought by me as if by accident, and yet once born the thought lingers, persists to grow where it fell, and soon holds me as surely as a ball and chain, blocks the horizon better than any penitentiary wall ever would. I believe the walls could easily be torn down, the chain sundered, if I only stopped embracing the gnarled trees of my distracted rumination. Instead I am of the forest its own animal. I am fed with its droppings, poisonous fruits I gorge myself with. Self control I have in abundance, as long as I control the self to be a slave to whatever foreign, alien fancy has seen fit to germinate within on a particular day. Most of the trees are old, though, and so very dear to me the idea to bring the axe to them breaks my heart and soul. Regardless, I do not have it in me to fashion the weapon to begin with.

I flee the company of my fellow man, as I fear their inner woodland and the beast that lies there more than I fear my own, and this by a large margin. I touched a woman once, the memory of the disgust I felt still fresh after nearly a decade. Man is the only kind of devil there is, hence the body is the devil's house. There is not hell, no heaven. There is however a paradise I left, somehow, of my own accord. It is in my head like something in the corner of your eye. I cannot recall anything of it but I can feel it there, out of reach to all but great patience of the self or great violence against it. There is much more to say, but I deal in vacuous confessions piecemeal. Where there is pressure; there is a release valve. For now it is enough, time will tell whether it will remain so.

[Anonymous No.22242726]

One of the villains in my story wants to consume his entire Empire and then kill himself so that they can all "ascend" to a higher realm. To godhood.
The type of god this would birth is best left to the imagination.

Somehow, it should require a noble girl I'm shipping with the Hero's bro. I don't know how. Any tips?

[Anonymous No.22242742]

>>22240621
Don't change anything and ask her what she thinks of your changes.

[Anonymous No.22242810]

>>22242726
Here are a few options:
- A crucial magic runs through her bloodline and she's either the only survivor of her line or its heir.
- As an infant she or her mind was exchanged with a being from another dimension in a sort of political demonic changeling pact, bla bla bla one of a kind, and this allows setting up the right sort of transdimensional connection to create a field to do the whatever.
- One person can't channel the spell alone, it takes two who have the right kind of emotional connection and for Reasons she's the one for him. Probably challenging to make believable but could be a good source of pathos if you pull it off. (IIRC Pacific Rim has this?)

I don't think it's too hard to come up with some sort of magical MacGuffinesque concept, but if you want it to feel right maybe you should first work out what kind of dynamic you want it to have. How does it make the characters feel, how does it affect their actions?
- If the noble girl is special, did she know this from birth? How much did she know? Did she know she was dangerous? Or was the knowledge perhaps kept from her?
- Does the villain have a personal emotional obsession with her or is she nothing more than a tool to him?
- How does she feel about having this power? Could she perhaps even feel that being used for this is the right thing to do, or her destiny?
- Does she gain agency because of this? Is it just that the ritual works with her and not without her and that's it, or would she be able to influence its outcome due to her participation?
- Is she the only possible candidate or is she just the most eligible one?
Work out the role it plays in the story and then adjust the magic to fit.

[Anonymous No.22242822]

>>22242820
>>22242820
>>22242820
>>22242820

[Anonymous No.22243131]

>>22242670
>>22242637
>>22242661

>complaining about SPAG issues in a first draft

Well what is the point of hiring an EDITOR then?

[Anonymous No.22243670]

>>22233545
Too shameful to self bump, not shameful enough to shill. Would you anons consider looking at my AI thread?
>>>22242667

Also, here's a bad poem I wrote. Maybe not bad.

[Anonymous No.22243880]

>>22242699
I'll bet your parents really want you to get out of the house and find a job, huh.

[Anonymous No.22243884]

>>22242726
So, the plot of the video game "Dark Kingdom"?