/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.22427203]

I want to learn about different religions. I don't know what half of the religions in pic related even are.

Where do I start? Is it even possible to have an adequate understanding of the world religions? They all have thousands of years of debates and splits, no one can give you an unbiased description, no one even agrees what each religions means.

So, /lit/, what do you recommend?

[Anonymous No.22427232]

>>22427203
I think you could start with religious texts. The Bible (ESV or NIV and then a copy of a Catholic translation), the Quran, the Talmud, etc.
Don't really know how to help you beyond Abrahamic religious texts or anything like that, and even then I only specifically know about certain translations for the Christian Bible.
Sorry.
Anyways, hope it's enough to give you some ideas on where to start at least.

[Anonymous No.22427241]

>>22427232
I'm skeptical that reading 2000 pages of sand people history will do much to further my understanding of religions. People smarter than me have been arguing for thousands of years about what these books say.

[Anonymous No.22427244]

>>22427203
Go to churches, buddhist temples, hindu temples, synagogues, etc irl and ask the roshi/rabbi/priest/etc about the basics of their religion. Then ask them how important theology or philosophy is to that religion.

[Anonymous No.22427252]

Houston Smith wrote a nice one volume book on the major religions.


Personally I would say they are all so fucking different that studying them all literally is the exact same task as studying everything ever

[Anonymous No.22427266]

>>22427244
Maybe I should do that but how do I even know whatever temples I find in the West are representative of anything real?

[Anonymous No.22427268]

>>22427241
Yes, but it will give you a slight understanding surrounding the context of what they're talking about and pave the way towards forming your own opinions.

[Anonymous No.22427292]

Pro tip: don't even bother if you're reading translated versions of their sacred texts, it's ridiculous how far off they are from the original teachings. The English versions of the Bible straight up include made up passages and blatant omissions, and don't get me started on the Quran.
Get as close as possible to the root language of whatever text you're studying, and if you can't, then start by studying those languages. Greek, Sanskrit and the semitic languages would be good places to start.

[Anonymous No.22427304]

>>22427292
Yeah I'm sure you read the original Hebrew bible to check how different it is and you are in a position to correct KJV.

[Anonymous No.22427311]

>>22427203
The Norton Anthology of World Religions by Jack Miles
Religion as We Know It: An Origin Story By Jack Miles

[Anonymous No.22427319]

>>22427311
OP, reading an American to explain you the "world religions" is probably the worst thing you can do.

[Anonymous No.22427322]

>>22427304
No, I read it in present day Hebrew, and it's night and day compared to English. I also read the most mainstream Greek version of the New Testament, but idek if it's faithful to the original. The Quran I read in Arabic, also a massive difference compared to the English one, and it doesn't do Islam any favors in this case.

[Anonymous No.22427328]

>>22427319
Americans invented plenty of religions, I'm sure the book will be accurate to those, at the very least.

[Anonymous No.22427336]

>>22427319
Same could be said about any other nationality. What’s important is the writer. Miles at least knows Hebrew and Aramaic. Do you?

[Anonymous No.22427337]

>>22427322
Point me to ONE significant difference between Greek NT and KJV

[Anonymous No.22427342]

>>22427336
He can know 100 languages, Americans are a secular cancer.

[Anonymous No.22427346]

>>22427322
> present day Hebrew
Disgusting variant. They copied the French R and sound like faggots choking on cocks.

[Anonymous No.22427355]

>>22427342
Miles is a Roman Catholic and spent a decade in a Jesuit seminar.

[Anonymous No.22427357]

>>22427328
Americans didn't exist when religions were being invented.

[Anonymous No.22427362]

>>22427357
Religions get invented every day

[Anonymous No.22427363]

>>22427355
So?

[Anonymous No.22427375]

>>22427203
The Brhadaranyaka upanisad has to be one of my favourite books ever, give it a read. I know that just by judging from the name it seems some occult indecipherable book but i think I'll be up to the task (btw it's about Hindu religion)
If you're interested in Christianity i would recommend you to read Die Christenheit oder Europa by Novalis. It's about the history of Christianity in Europe.

[Anonymous No.22427384]

>>22427203
anti-semites worshiping a dead rabbi as lord of the universe will never not be funny

[Anonymous No.22427385]

>>22427337
Mormonism, Scientology, Ignosticism, Pastafarianism and Reddit Atheism are all religions and were all invented by Americans.

[Anonymous No.22427388]

>>22427363
So you’re dismissing someone you haven’t even read. Someone who has a religious, not secular background.

[Anonymous No.22427391]

Since when are astrology and ath*ism religions?

[Anonymous No.22427395]

>>22427388
Yes, I dismiss Americans because all Americans I ever read have been retarded. Cope.

[Anonymous No.22427396]

>>22427384
Yawn. Get better b8

[Anonymous No.22427403]

>>22427395
Name 5 Americans you’ve read

[Anonymous No.22427405]

[Anonymous No.22427408]

>>22427396
i accept your concession, o humble christer

[Anonymous No.22427411]

>>22427203
>Anglicans separate from Protestants and in a different tier somehow
wut

[Anonymous No.22427413]

>>22427408
I said better, not the same old thing.

[Anonymous No.22427416]

>>22427411
Anglicans are closer to Catholicism, therefore more corre

[Anonymous No.22427419]

>>22427322
Lol I love how unbelievable arrogant Israelis are about ancient Hebrew because they know modern Hebrew and recited some verses by rote for Bar Mitzvah. It would be like me shitting on a a top Italian linguist for translating Canterbury Tales into Italian because I can read modern English.

[Anonymous No.22427423]

>>22427413
I've yet to see one of you argue your way out of it, but my favorite response has to be when you start digging in deeper about how Christianity is actually the real Judaism

[Anonymous No.22427425]

>>22427416
>reject the Pope's authority
>salvation by faith alone
That makes them Protestant, even if the Anglo-Catholics revived some pre-Reformation practices.

[Anonymous No.22427432]

>>22427423
All this has been answered a million times. Your attack is not even original. Again, get better bait.

[Anonymous No.22427435]

>>22427203
this is the most based and true tier list I've ever seen
bravo OP

[Anonymous No.22427438]

>>22427425
> That makes them Protestant
Not quite. They’re just catholics who get divorce

[Anonymous No.22427440]

>>22427203
Gnosticism is pro-Christic, actually

[Anonymous No.22427442]

>>22427432
If you're so confident it makes sense to worship one of them and hate the rest of them for not joining you in worshiping him then by all means, explain why.

[Anonymous No.22427462]

>>22427403
Non-fiction
>William James, CS Peirce, Dewey, Emerson Ralph Waldo, Thomas Paine (if he counts)
Poetry/fiction/drama
>Steinbeck, Ezra, Williams Tennessee, Fitzgerald, Arthur Miller (jew), Eugene O'Neill, Whitman

[Anonymous No.22427466]

>>22427435
I didn't make it

[Anonymous No.22427475]

>>22427411
Well they're a different religion, aren't they? They're not iconoclasts and High Anglicans preserve a lot of tradition.

[Anonymous No.22427500]

>>22427203
Start with the Church Fathers

[Anonymous No.22427525]

>>22427425
>>salvation by faith alone
They don't actually believe in this anymore if they ever did.

[Anonymous No.22427532]

>>22427500
Who worships secular states?

[Anonymous No.22427541]

>>22427532
Orthodoxy doesn't believe hierarchs are infallible, you're clueless.

[Anonymous No.22427555]

>>22427500
Don't you have a Ukrainian floodplain to go bleed to death in, Ivan?

[Anonymous No.22427560]

>>22427541
Thats very convenient when you need to excuse the obvious worldly agendas of church leadership

[Anonymous No.22427571]

>>22427560
Humans fallible, if you expected something else you're retarded.

[Anonymous No.22427648]

>>22427532
It's about the average believer from each faith.

[Anonymous No.22427950]

>>22427203
>>22427435
Why are Calvinists so low

[Anonymous No.22427986]

>>22427532
Orthos go on about Catholics being "worldly" (this is Dosto's main criticism of Catholicism) yet don't get the irony of the ROC being entirely subservient to a spraypainted-Soviet Union. It's like if Catholic Churches had statues of Robespierre.

[Anonymous No.22428003]

>>22427986
Do Americans think Orthodoxy is Russian rather than Greek just because they're retarded?

[Anonymous No.22428012]

>>22428003
Dont worry, the Greek church is just as infested with intelligence agents.

https://orthodoxhistory.org/2023/03/23/patriarch-athenagoras-the-cia-and-the-state-department/

[Anonymous No.22428015]

>>22428003
ROC and EOC are usually in communion with each other the same way Roman Catholics and Eastern Catholics are. They are only in schism right now because EOC supports Ukraine having a sovereign Patriarchate and ROC doesn't.

[Anonymous No.22428036]

>>22428003
There's a hundred million Russians and how many Greeks? Why should we care to split hairs?

[Anonymous No.22428052]

>>22428012
There are secret services agents infiltrated in every institution in the world since it's literally their job. Using that as an argument shows you're ill intentions disguised as purism (donatism heresy)

>>22428015
Doesn't matter whether they're in comunion or not, the Byzantine Empire defined the Orthodox faith, not the Russians. All 9 ecumenical councils were in the Byzantine Empire.

>>22428036
Greeks defined the fate, Russians haven't contributed anything to the Orthodox dogma since it was almost entirely established before they were even Christened.

[Anonymous No.22428072]

>>22428052
These responses were provided by my local priest and former KGB agent, by the way

[Anonymous No.22428077]

>>22428052
>Russians haven't contributed anything to the Orthodox dogma
They don't have to, they just need to outnumber the Greeks and it becomes their religion.

[Anonymous No.22428087]

>>22428077
How is it their religion if they can't change the dogma and they must respect a dogma not made by them? You Americans are literally retarded, there's no communication possible with you. You're braindead, it is what it is.

[Anonymous No.22428097]

>>22428087
Isnt there literally a schism brewing between the two churches right now? Also very funny to have this anti-american attitude when the leaders of your church are CIA agents lmao!

[Anonymous No.22428102]

>>22428097
The dumbest country to ever exist, the worst and lowest product of Europe. You deserve to serve Israel like circumcised slaves.

[Anonymous No.22428108]

>>22428102
And you exist to serve my country, even praying to our intelligence agents

[Anonymous No.22428114]

>>22428108
No one brains to bishops, low IQ golem

[Anonymous No.22428137]

>>22427322
What modern Hebrew translation are you using, why?
In my opinion being able to only read contemporary Hebrew literature, and not being able to read in biblical/mishnaic Hebrew is very lazy. עדיף לקרוא תורה בלי תרגומים, תשתמש רק
בתלמוד אונקלוס
As to the Quran in its original language, have you tried memorising any surahs? What are your favourite aya'at from the Quran?
I always feel motivated by ان نحن نرثو الارض ومن عليك والينا يرجعو

[Anonymous No.22428144]

>>22428097
>brewing
EOC and ROC are literally not in communion anymore. They are two different denominations now because they couldn't come to a political agreement over Ukraine.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Moscow%E2%80%93Constantinople_schism

[Anonymous No.22428147]

apparently every christcuck tierlist around religons is the same lol.

[Anonymous No.22428157]

>>22427292
>t. textual criticismcel

There are variants and spelling errors for sure, but the idea that the English translations don't do the original languages justice is midwit cope. Read some Metzger and Bruce.

[Anonymous No.22428159]

>>22428087
>How is it their religion if they can't change the dogma and they must respect a dogma not made by them?
They seem to be doing fine making it up as they go along and they have the numbers to make it work. Didn't they dig up some Greek version of canon law and use it to argue Moscow can be its own thing but Ukraine can't? Isn't the whole dispute over who has the right to make shit up—Istanbul (lol, losing control of your own holy city) or Moscow? There's no actual "truth" at stake here, it's politics, it is so obviously politics that none bother to even point it out, they go on citing legal decisions from the middle ages as if those legitimate decisions already made without regard for them.

[Anonymous No.22428164]

>>22428144
>They are two different denominations now
Retard. This word exists only for protestants. Orthodox always had internal schisms for disciplinary measures and it has nothing to do with theology. Stay in your lane satan.

[Anonymous No.22428173]

>>22428159
>Didn't they dig up some Greek version of canon law and use it to argue Moscow can be its own thing but Ukraine can't?
They don't need to dig up anything. Ukraine is not autocephalous, Russia is. This has always been true and clear to everyone.

[Anonymous No.22428182]

>>22427203
Based and correct

https://youtu.be/m-RdNeKlFs8

[Anonymous No.22428201]

>>22428173
>This has always been true and clear to everyone.
What is the actual rule here? It seems totally arbitrary that some countries get autocephaly and others don't. Is there anything serious here or just historical contigencies?

[Anonymous No.22428202]

Download the "Gospel Library" app, reach out to local missionaries.

[Anonymous No.22428220]

>>22428201
A synod is held and other autocephalous churches have to agree. Autocephaly is not obtained overnight.

[Anonymous No.22428254]

>>22428220
>other autocephalous churches have to agree
so it's just historical contigency, and how this question is answered would indeed answer whether or not the Russians control the Orthodox church or not, and given the present breach they control a fair amount

[Anonymous No.22428257]

>>22427500
Based

[Anonymous No.22428259]

>>22428254
How does Russia control other autocephalous churches? What can Russia do to them? You've been posting retarded responses for hours now, give your little brain a break.

[Anonymous No.22428263]

>>22427203
>/his/

[Anonymous No.22428270]

>>22428259
Did Serbia vote for Ukraine?

[Anonymous No.22428287]

>>22428144
Wait, so the True church took a worldly political stance and sided with Globalism and Americanism??? B-b-but I thought the were BASED

[Anonymous No.22429013]

>>22428003
I spend about as much time thinking of orthodox Christianity about as much as I think about the concerns and goings-on of a hill of termites in Africa.

[Anonymous No.22429034]

>>22427203
>Orthodox Christcuckery
I didn't know Jordan Peterson posted on /lit/
https://tiermaker.com/create/religion-tierlist-1446014

[Anonymous No.22429099]

>>22427203
There are probably many "Introduction to World Religions" or "History of World Religions" books out there. If you have a general interest, it can be a good thing to start with them, just make sure that the author is as unbiased as possible.

[Anonymous No.22429143]

>>22427241
You need to read it to be part of the conversation RETARD.

[Anonymous No.22429174]

>>22428137
בחיים לא אבין אנשים מאמינים שעצלנים מכדי ללמוד את שפת הקודש, עברית מודרנית ובייחוד אנגלית כלל לא במעמד לשמר את היופי הקדוש שבמקרא.

[Anonymous No.22429252]

>>22427950
who?

[Anonymous No.22429282]

>>22427375
Whats it about. My only knowledge about Indian faiths come from evola and Schopenhauer, i was always curious about them but them but was put off by their retardedly complex metaphysics.

[Anonymous No.22429310]

Fix your tier list

[Anonymous No.22429344]

>>22429310
>>22429099
>>22429034
Cringe

[Anonymous No.22429625]

>>22427203
Why is Mormonism so hated?

[Anonymous No.22429826]

>>22429625
sounds like moronism

[Anonymous No.22429830]

>>22429625
Mormonism is basically a white version of Judaism where adherents create a network of financial and social institutions outside of mainstream society.

[Anonymous No.22429994]

>>22427241
>I'm skeptical that reading 2000 pages of sand people history will do much to further my understanding of religions. People smarter than me have been arguing for thousands of years about what these books say.
Bro I cringed so hard reading this

[Anonymous No.22430004]

>>22427203

[Anonymous No.22430005]

>>22429994
Go back to Twitter you fucking faggot

[Anonymous No.22430046]

>>22427500
How do I start with the church fathers

[Anonymous No.22430058]

Enuma Elish -> Epic of Gilgamesh -> Jewish Torah -> Greek Septuagint -> Nag Hammadi library -> Dead Sea Scrolls -> Teachings of the Desert Fathers -> The Holy Coran -> Corpus Hermeticum -> Emerald Table -> The Avesta -> The Vedas -> Buddhist texts (I don't know their name) -> Tao Te Ching
Mix with philosophy, Middle Age occult teachings, the kabbalah, etc and you will have all the spiritual knowled ypu will ever need.

[Anonymous No.22430061]

>>22430058
Not bad but some of it doesn't make sense. The "jewish torah" is already in the Septuaginta. You could've put the talmud instead. Epic of Gilgamesh has pretty much nothing spiritual, you ma as well put Iliad and Odyssey if you go down that path. You should've put Philokalia in there too.

[Anonymous No.22430069]

>>22427385
What about non-Prot translations? Douay–Rheims, etc.? Or translations other than KJV like ESV or NIV?
thought-for-thought translations need not apply to this discussion.

[Anonymous No.22430073]

>>22427203

One of the more peculiar Orthocuck claim is its supposed distinction from Catholicism.

[Anonymous No.22430078]

>>22430073
But they're objectively different retard

[Anonymous No.22430084]

>>22430078

?

[Anonymous No.22430086]

>>22430061
You're right and yes The Talmud is important if you want to learn kabbalah

[Anonymous No.22430121]

>>22430073
No way, we all know that disagreements regarding linguistic wordplay about the Holy Spirit are probably the biggest deal in the world

[Anonymous No.22430687]

>>22427203
>no Ethiopian Orthodoxy

[Anonymous No.22430766]

>>22429625
Magic underwear

[Anonymous No.22430769]

The Well is but one, the Water from which is filled by many, the difference only lies in the Pot, as all carry the same Water

[Anonymous No.22430848]

>>22430058
This is good. I'd add Analects for Confucianism plus the Kojiki or Nihonji for Shinto. And you'll have a wide spectrum of beliefs and maybe start noticing a common thread.
I agree with the other anon about Talmud plus maybe Iliad and Odyssey. You could replace them with a general Greek myth text and replace Gilgamesh with a textbook on the mythology but they are important in the religions that later emerged from he regions.
I'll emphasize Shinto a short bit because not many straight polytheistic religions continue into the modern era. Hindu the other one tries to have it both ways and all the other pagan ones didn't make it to modern day or are larping.

[Anonymous No.22430858]

>>22430848
>maybe start noticing a common thread.
What's the common thread?

[Anonymous No.22430868]

>>22430858
There are no shortcuts on this anon. You need to read and learn yourself.

[Anonymous No.22430883]

>>22430858
>God is like…everywhere bro

[Anonymous No.22430886]

>>22430858
>>22430868
You know what? That answer sounded really gay. Let me at least say some surface level stuff you'll notice quickly. One is that across many religions some moralitys tend to be repeated for example anti greed and anti materialism from Buddhism ending desire to Christ's story of the rich man in heaven to Taoism live one with in nature.

[Anonymous No.22430888]

>>22430886
That sounded even gayer, well done.
>bro spirituality means... SPIRITUALITY

[Anonymous No.22430893]

>>22430888
Weird way to misinterpret that materialism is bad.

[Anonymous No.22430919]

Antichristic tier reporting in

[Anonymous No.22430930]

>>22430886
Woahhhhhh! Multiple religions say greed = bad

[Anonymous No.22430951]

>>22430919
What's the reference?

[Anonymous No.22430961]

>>22430930
>atheist grows increasing nervous as his materialistic hedonism lifestyle is threatened
Atheism. Not even once.

[Anonymous No.22430968]

>>22430961
Even atheists say that though

[Anonymous No.22430999]

>>22430961
>>22430968
Exactly lol. This guy is a soulless modern who experiences religion purely through reading books.

[Anonymous No.22431020]

>>22430848
>I'll emphasize Shinto a short bit because not many straight polytheistic religions continue into the modern era.
Shinto is a deliberate creature of modernity, Japanese Buddhism has better continuity with Japanese "polytheistic religion" than Shinto does. But to really understand the otherization of paganism in the first place as a kind of fake religion compared to the "real" religion of monotheism, you'll have to start with the Assmann.

[Anonymous No.22431033]

>>22431020
>jewish names
Paganism confirmed satanic for the millionth time

[Anonymous No.22431122]

>>22431033
>antisemite
>worships a dead rabbi as god
lol lmao even

[Anonymous No.22431136]

>>22431122
Trite

[Anonymous No.22431160]

>>22431136
ok retard, if their god is as powerful as you think he is he might be mad that you consider his chosen people blood enemies

[Anonymous No.22431172]

>>22431160
Nta but why do people feel the need to comment on Christianity when they obviously have never learned anything about it? There are multiple chapters in the New Testament devoted to how the post-Christ Jews are in league with Satan.

[Anonymous No.22431174]

>>22431160
The ones he called the synagogue of satan?

[Anonymous No.22431188]

real

[Anonymous No.22431227]

>>22431188
What's with these trash charts? If I ask you to describe Shintoism beyond Wikipedia knowledge you got nothing.

[Anonymous No.22431250]

>>22431227
im actually something of a scholar..... in certain shinto materials....

[Anonymous No.22431251]

>>22431172
>>22431174
they wrote both testaments, you are just picking your favorite one and participating in a debate they had about their religion after being buck broken and deprived of statehood for the nteenth time.

[Anonymous No.22431292]

>>22431251
Picking our favorite what...?

[Anonymous No.22431319]

>>22431292
You are citing the new testament as an argument against the old testament, it's a bit like blaming your father for you being born but not your mother. To a third party it is clear everyone involved is practicing variations of the same religious system.

[Anonymous No.22431326]

>>22431251
So are you gonna address the fact that you were wrong about them being the chosen people to Christians or just talk more out of your ass

[Anonymous No.22431339]

>>22431319
>You are citing the new testament as an argument against the old testament
No I don't
>To a third party it is clear everyone involved is practicing variations of the same religious system.
You're just a retarded third party, that's clear enough

[Anonymous No.22431391]

>>22427241
you're hopeless

[Anonymous No.22431396]

>>22431326
I'm not wrong, you are using one of their books to argue against one of their other books. That older book is also the only reason the newer book is considered to have fulfilled the prophecy of a messiah being sent to them, so you are the one being completely arbitrary in throwing out just enough portions of the old book to make the new book coherent, and talking out your ass, lighting fire to your own house and then calling your insurance agent.
>>22431339
>i didn't cite the new testament i just said there were chapters in it agreeing with me
ok

[Anonymous No.22431414]

>>22431396
Let me explain for a retard.
1. There is really no evidence that modern jews are related to the levantine people in the OT, so this is a non-issue
2. The Bible is pretty clear that the new testament alters the covenant from God. Its not “arbitrary” to focus on the New covenant which is the one that Christians believe is currently in effect.
3. Christianity is basically the opposite of modern Judaism in almost every possible doctrine.
Now go back to pretending to be a pagan or whatever

[Anonymous No.22431465]

>>22429830
Sounds great how do I sign up

[Anonymous No.22431514]

>>22431414
>1. Christians are the real Jewish people
i think you're both Jewish people given that you rely on Jewish literature to define your religion, I was never talking about genetics you dumb teenager
>2. the new testament overrides the old testament
which you only have a new version of because you believe there is an old version of... and who wrote these books and is responsible for their content? And in what context does this debate even matter if not that of the religion of Judaism, which split in two under the Romans?
>3. they're the opposite of each other they can't be related
if you define yourself in opposition to something it dominates your entire system, and as we've already noted, your literature your god your prophecies your messiah are all Jewish, so you being an anti-semite is just the iceing on the cake

[Anonymous No.22431541]

>>22431514
I and most christians throughout history are anti-semitic against modern jews, who have nothing to do with the old or new testaments. Your retardation and refusal to understand that words can change in different contexts does not change that fact. Now dilate tranny

[Anonymous No.22431562]

>>22431541
>i am the real Jew, not the "the Jews"
ok! as long as you admit to that I won't accuse you of being incoherent, it makes internal sense that you view modern Judaism as a heresy of your religion if you are The Real Jews all along

[Anonymous No.22431582]

>>22431562
Basically yes. “Judaism” is objectively a newer set of doctrines than Christianity

[Anonymous No.22431605]

>>22431582
Alrighty then. So we are back to here >>22431319 and it isn't clear to a third party why they are wrong to reject your later additions to the literature. As far as anyone can tell you are looking at 60% of the same literature and then fighting over whose additions are superior.

[Anonymous No.22431629]

>>22431605
Thats just on you for not understanding my friend. Judaism has a large set of rabbinical commentaries that are dogmatic and completely reinterpret the OT stories. Just because they use a few of the same books does not mean they are even close to the same.
Christian ethics: Anti-materialism, universalism, desire to convert others, focus on heaven as opposed to worldly issues.
Jewish ethics: ethnocentrism, focus on worldly success, no doctrine of afterlife, one cannot convert to judaism at all

[Anonymous No.22431641]

>>22431629
>a few of the same books
yeah it's just a few it's not like NT is written to correspond with and fulfill the prophecies of the OT which you both use in its entirety... I just don't understand these big complexities!

[Anonymous No.22431651]

>>22431641
Alright im gonna be done because you don’t actually care. In the context of the Talmud (the true holy book of judaism), the stories of the OT are a few books. And again, for like the third time, the jews of today adopted the books of the OT far after Jesus was even around.

[Anonymous No.22431772]

>>22431651
>adopted the books of the OT far after Jesus was even around.
the NT was written far after he was around too, I guess that's entirely spurious too

[Anonymous No.22431775]

>>22427419
Ancient Hebrew always surrounds us, especially in our prayers. And I really doubt you ever met an Israeli that was condencending because he speaks Hebrew.

[Anonymous No.22431803]

>>22429174
גם יש כל כך הרבה דרכים ללמוד אותה היום, יש את שטיינזלץ וספריא ועוד כמה.

[Anonymous No.22432351]

>>22429625
evangelical cope+atheist seething+Catholic jealousy= universally acceptable target for mockery and scorn, which leads to some really dumb arguments against it, putting normies in a position where a 19-year old knocking on their door can establish a position of authority by easily addressing the most common concerns. then your pastor gets butthurt and makes up more poorly thought-out rebuttals, posts them on his blog, and the cycle begins anew.

[Anonymous No.22432372]

>>22432351
I dont think anyone has ever been stumped by a Mormon. People usually just stop listening when they learn about the protective underwear, child molestation, and polygamy.

[Anonymous No.22432484]

>>22432372
I remember a family that invited their pastor to a meeting with us, he went BSOD after I quoted Revelations 3:21, which he deemed blasphemous. when pointed out that was a Bible verse he opened to it, read it silently, and sat there in silence for several minutes, then excused himself. The whole household was later baptized.

>protective underwear
most religions believe in the significance of dress, and it's pretty easy to tell investigators God has made covenants with us regarding our well being.

>child molestation
happens less often than in other denominations (or lack thereof)

>polygamy
was totally cool

[Anonymous No.22432490]

>>22432484
And then everyone clapped

[Anonymous No.22432503]

>>22432490
there's also the classic Galatians 1:8 opposition, which doesn't hold water when you read Revelations 1:1

[Anonymous No.22432552]

>>22427203
Hey, I did religious studies in college. I'm mainly knowledgeable of Buddhism. I'd recommend checking out the Samyuttanikaya, the Dhammapada, and Awakening of the Mahayana Faith.
Aside from that, I know a lot about Daoism, Hinduism, and Quakers.
For Daoism, the Daodejing, Zhuangzi, and Liezi. Also look for a book on internal alchemy.
For Hinduism, check out the Bhagavad Gita and the Upanishads.
For Quakers, check out the Journal of George Fox.
To add to all of this, I agree with >>22427244
Ultimately, ask people. Engage. Make friends.

[Anonymous No.22432733]

>>22432484
>>22432503
Mormon on Protestant zingers don't really count, since those denominations shift every century or so anyway. Eventually Mormons will lose ground to the charismatic/pentacostal sects that are eating away at mainline prots.

[Anonymous No.22432776]

>>22432733
caths have exactly one verse they reference to claim legitimacy and that one starts to crumble when you press them on what the function of a gate is

[Anonymous No.22432781]

>>22428164
>schisms aren't really schisms
cool then so when will the Orthos admit to being rogue Catholics?

[Anonymous No.22432823]

[Anonymous No.22433076]

>>22427203
Fuck off back to tradcath anime twitter you stupid narcissistic tranny.

[Anonymous No.22433080]

>>22431188
>>22431250
Shintoism more like Shitoism.

[Anonymous No.22433081]

>>22433076
The tradcath larpers became orthobro larpers, from one group of pagan idolaters to another. Also meds.

[Anonymous No.22433083]

>>22433081
Stfu insipid faggot.

[Anonymous No.22433091]

>>22433083

[Anonymous No.22433116]

>>22432776
Well the point is, eventually a more popular innovation will come along and upturn it, that's the entire history of Protestant denominations, and in the United States, where Mormonism originates, this innovation is rampant. Americans have produced more variants of Christianity in 200 years than all of Europe did in nearly 2000. Whatever sounds compelling prevails. I am not defending the "legitimacy" of Catholic Christianity per se, merely pointing out the logical conclusion of treating [being able to cite] the Bible [in defense of an interpretation you've just thought of] as your sole point of reference for what is to be taught. It's all made up anyway, but there are structures you can have to slow down others from making things up and converting your congregation out from under you, which again, is a really common event in American Protestantism. I am a huge fan of making things up for the sake of better teaching—Buddhists call it "skillful means"—but Christianity has long defined itself in terms of lower-case orthodoxy such that, no, you are not allowed to simply make things up, no matter how efficacious or accurate you think you are. What might make Mormons resilient to this in the long run, however, is that they are nearly ethnoreligious and also well-concentrated geographically, but that also impedes conversion of outsiders, so some observations on Protestantism in general may not apply as strongly. On the other hand, they are surrounded by other Protestants and ex-Protestants nationally speaking, and I am sure the bulk of people moving to Utah from elsewhere in the US or other countries are not Mormons themselves.

[Anonymous No.22433290]

>>22432823
>cathtard worships paganism
Classic

[Anonymous No.22433292]

>>22430919

[Anonymous No.22433375]

>>22432776
What's the argument against the gates of hell verse?

[Anonymous No.22433640]

>>22427203
Oo, I've put together little breakdowns of many unique Abrahamic faiths:
>Druze
>Mandeans
>Samaritans
>Alevi
>Qalandar
>Alawites
>Shabak
>Zikri
>Satpanth
>Kakai
>Cheltan
>Yaresan
>Bektashi
>Qizilbash
>Gnawa
>Martinist
>Rosicrucian
>Kyrgyz Shamanic Islam
>Alians
>Donmeh (Sabateans)
>Kartabhaja
>Sahebdhani
You want to know about any of these?

[Anonymous No.22433664]

Foundations of Buddhism by Rupert Gethin is the only book you need to read on Buddhism

[Anonymous No.22433676]

>>22433290
The typical seethe and hatred of the ancestors of the average protestant

[Anonymous No.22433912]

>>22433375
gates prevail by keeping something in or out. Christ's Church will be able to offer salvation to the righteous dead and save them from hell, and wouldn't need to do things like baptize infants.

[Anonymous No.22433952]

>>22433912
Yep, I can imagine my eyes glazing over as you explain how this actually disproves Catholicism and why I need to put on the undies

[Anonymous No.22434107]

>>22427241
Oh, well then you should probably just kill yourself with ant poison. Failing that, marvel comics or nickelodeon cartoons might be more your speed. Those are designed for people without natural curiosity, like yourself.

[Anonymous No.22434189]

>>22432823
Kind of strange a Catholic would like Mandaeans when they're pretty explicit about Jesus being a fraud, lol.

[Anonymous No.22434248]

>>22433952
I never implied you were smart enough to comprehend and I'm sorry if I made you believe you could grasp what I'm saying.

[Anonymous No.22434270]

>>22434248
Sure thing, now give some more money to your church leader so he can marry another little girl

[Anonymous No.22434348]

>>22431803
>>22429174
satan vibes.

[Anonymous No.22434400]

>>22433676

Hail Pachamama!

[Anonymous No.22434457]

>>22427203
Religion is a mere tool used to cope against mortality and to control the population.
The majority of the religions in that picture are the same in different flavours btw. Christianity and their different breakaway sects, Islam and Judaism are one religion for example. You should understand these by studying their historical context because as far as theology goes, it's just fluff.

[Anonymous No.22434462]

>>22434270
mmhmmmm, a widower heart surgeon remarries to a 56-year old 'little girl' and he definitely needs my money

[Anonymous No.22434510]

>>22434457
they're actually all totally different and have wildly different effects on their worshipers. One can barely hope to compare them

[Anonymous No.22434523]

>>22433912
Don't Mormons baptize dead people? Isn't that as bad if not worse?

[Anonymous No.22434625]

>>22434523
Yes they do and yes, it is the exact same concept applied (of course) to a cringy extreme

[Anonymous No.22434673]

>>22427241
>I let other people form my world view
Fucking retard

[Anonymous No.22434823]

>>22429310
Holy kek

[Anonymous No.22435227]

>>22434523
that's prevailing against the gates of Hell, go read 1 Corinthians 15

[Anonymous No.22435238]

>>22434189
The religion itself is kinda dumb, with what is purported to be John the Baptist in the first century writing about Muhammad and Mosques and shit. Mandaeans are more respectable in how long they have survived despite how small and unambitious they are. They don't proselytize, don't have political ambitions, don't even carry weapons.

[Anonymous No.22435527]

>>22431629
The Talmudic commentary is treated as such - a commentary. If you look the great Jewish commentators, they all commented on the Hebrew Bible, this includes Rashi, Nachmanedes, and the Zohar. The Mishna and the Talmud are entirely based on the Tanakh, we recite the Tanakh in half our prayers, all the scripture within our mezuzot and tefillin are verses from the Hebrew Bible. All the mitzvot we do are from the Hebrew Bible, you may not agree with our interpretation, but these are practices that we've been carrying on for millenia

>desire to convert others
That's entirely the point. You've cheapened God. A person who sinned can just say three Hail Marys and he's scot free. In Judaism you must prove yourself to God. You must obey the commandments that he gave to Moses on Mount Sinai, these are no trivial matters, even if Christians like to believe otherwise. Before Christianity there were a lot of gentiles wishing to convert to Judaism, but they weren't ready to trully commit themselves to God by following his commandments, so Christianity used the tactic of telling people that they don't need to do anything, just bee yourself. One of the first things the gospel of Mark has is a misinterpretation of what Jesus said so that he can permit eating pork. How can you claim to worship God if you can't even stop eating certain foods?
>focus on worldly success
You haven't read any Jewish rabbis or Jewish philosophers. The righteous Jews went to great lengths to become closer with God, they made many earthly sacrifices. And if we're talking about our earthly aspirations, what we really aspire towards is for the Messiah to come from our prayers, to return all the Jews to the holy land, to resurrect the dead, and to rebuild the temple so that we may worship him like days prior for all of eternity. And it is much more profitable to be Christian. You were persecuted one time in your history, we were persecuted for millenia, but because we love God we submitted our lives to Him.
> no doctorine on afterlife.
There are two camps in Judaism, either you get sent to Hell or the Garden of Eden, and reincarnation. A quick search on Wikipedia would have answered that for you.
>one cannot convert to judaism at all
People convert to Judaism all the time, but unlike Christianity one must prove themselves that they truly love God with all their hearts, and are willing to accept the Laws of Moses, and become one with the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel.

[Anonymous No.22435586]

>>22431775
Jews are condescending in everything they do

[Anonymous No.22435599]

>>22435527
cope more shlomo. Your ancestors were from the Ukraine

[Anonymous No.22435658]

>>22435527
>A person who sinned can just say three Hail Marys and he's scot free.
In Catholicism confession happens with the implicit prerequisite that the person is already penitent. The official absolution is performed by the priest and the Hail Marys are more a sealing of the deal the way a Jew isn't "forgiven" by a Temple burnt offering.

Also not related, but what is the Jewish opinion on Sirach not being in the Tanakh? Is it really just because Jews didn't want anything in the Tanakh that couldn't immediately be ascribed to an explicit prophet?

[Anonymous No.22435671]

Read pic related. Amazing book on religion. This author has some really interesting work.

[Anonymous No.22435698]

>>22427203
>Protestantism lower than Anglicanism, higher than Calvinism
Protestantism is just an umbrella term for the reformation, it includes Evangelicalism, Anglicanism, Calvinism, Lutheranism, etc. General Protestantism seems more correct and accurate to scripture than Catholicism, not sure about Orthodox.

[Anonymous No.22435713]

>>22429282
>Whats it about.
It talks about meditation, transmigration, the non-dual Supreme Self and spiritual bondage and liberation through knowledge, among other topics.

[Anonymous No.22435803]

>>22433640
Yes

[Anonymous No.22435873]

>>22435586
>Jews are successful in everything they do
>>22435599
Ashkenazi Jews have are more genetically similar to Yemenite Jews than to Europeans.
>>22435658
>penitent
What commandments do you follow for your absolution?
>Sirach
Not familiar with it.

[Anonymous No.22435880]

>>22435873
https://www.nbcnews.com/sciencemain/most-ashkenazi-jews-are-genetically-europeans-surprising-study-finds-8c11358210#:~:text=All%20told%2C%20more%20than%2080,the%20Black%20and%20Caspian%20seas.

Wrong or lying. Feel free to try again tho

[Anonymous No.22435983]

>>22435873
>Not familiar with it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Sirach
One of the most important didactic texts of Second Temple Judaism. It's basically a bunch of Jewish boomer advice originally written to help diasporic Jews stay intellectually Jewish rather than embracing too much Hellenism. It is canonical scripture for Catholic and Orthodox Christians but not for Jews or Protestants (for Protestants this is literally because they defer to Jews on the matter).

One theory is that it was taken out of the Tanakh canon because it had an identifiable author other than one of the prophets. The other theory is that it fell out of use with Jews because it was too popular among early Christians.

[Anonymous No.22436017]

>>22435880
>getting your news from nbc
you'd stoop so low
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_studies_on_Jews
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5668307/

[Anonymous No.22436021]

>>22435983
Any books on the topic?

[Anonymous No.22436023]

>>22436021
check out the Book of Sriracha

[Anonymous No.22436050]

>>22435983
>for Protestants this is literally because they defer to Jews on the matter
There was never any consensus that Sirach was a canonical text. You can find canonical lists from the church fathers which directly exclude it (Athanasius, Jerome, Clement of Jerusalem, etc.), and Catholics bishops up until Trent stating that it was not canonical (e.g. Cardinal Cajetan).

[Anonymous No.22436056]

>>22436050
>Clement of Jerusalem,
I meant Cyril of Jerusalem, oops

[psalms 83:18 No.22436569]

biasd opinion from JW elder yall
people dont like us because :
1. we do work, people dont like work they just want to believe but thats not scriptural
2. obey scriptural stuff? like when the bible thingy say dont lay down and gay with a man? so we just dont. where some other religions say yeah it say that, but we know better

stuff like that. we kind of based? but yeah its harder and not fun so maybe dont if you like doing whatever you want.

thanks take care

[Femboy4Prez !!QtZ5ahYRiUC No.22436879]

that was fun :D

[Anonymous No.22436907]

>>22427203
love how whoever made this post never stepped inside a church

[Anonymous No.22437383]

>>22436907
Elaborate

[Anonymous No.22437702]

>>22437383
He's a zoomer

[Anonymous No.22437710]

>>22427203
Read Huston Smith

[Anonymous No.22437713]

>>22427462
Dude got filtered by Peirce and James. Lol.

[Anonymous No.22437720]

>>22427950
People associate us with kikes. Granted I generally at a push would call myself a Paulist but I’m a generational Calvinist by birthright

[Anonymous No.22437721]

>>22437713
>bro you didn't like twilight? u got filtered broooo
Why are zoomers like this?

[Anonymous No.22437724]

>>22437720
>People associate us with kikes.
Why?

[Anonymous No.22437761]

>>22427203
Preparing for hateful comments

[Anonymous No.22437766]

>>22437721
I’m 41

>>22437724
Probably because we emphasize the primacy of the old testament.

[Anonymous No.22437775]

>>22437761
It's just retarded

[Anonymous No.22437781]

>>22437766
>I’m 41
Either lying (expected from a Calvinist) or suffered arrested development (also expected from a Calvinist)

[Anonymous No.22437785]

>>22437781
nice racism bro

[Anonymous No.22437790]

>>22437775
there it is! so predictable!

[Anonymous No.22437810]

>>22437790
Yes, if you post something retarded you'll get called retarded, retard

[Anonymous No.22437818]

>>22437810
>LOOK MOM LOOK HOW TUFF I AM ON THE INTERNET!!! I A BIG KID NOW!!!

[Anonymous No.22437836]

>>22437810
but seriously, why should I trust your judgement over my own. I know myself quite well, what are your credentials, even? are you a scholar of religion, perchance?

[Anonymous No.22437848]

>>22427425
>reject the Pope
why don't you embrace every apostolic succession

[Anonymous No.22437859]

>>22437836
You're a retard stop posting

[Anonymous No.22437896]

>>22436879
Taoism and Jainism are both genuinely retarded. Taoism has way too much weird magic rituals and witches and stuff, also too many gods.

Mexicayotl is pure LARP

[Anonymous No.22437925]

>>22437721
>>bro you didn't like twilight? u got filtered broooo
This but unironically

[Anonymous No.22438813]

FUCK

[Anonymous No.22438950]

>>22427203
Is nobody going to post the link to this tier list?

[Anonymous No.22438972]

>>22437836
>perchance

[Anonymous No.22439016]

>>22427203
Well you don't really need to bother with most of the religions on that list, given that a significant amount of them are just different sects of Christianity and some of them are practically irrelevant outside of their heartlands. Any encyclopedia of world religions will tell you more than enough about all the ones that matter.

[Anonymous No.22439017]

Captcha 0000AD

[Anonymous No.22439150]

>gnostic juche
BASED

[Anonymous No.22439293]

>>22438950
>in the world
That means 'outside the monastery' in orthodox talk

[Anonymous No.22439300]

>>22439017
>gnostics
>ancient knowledge
>truth
>order

[Anonymous No.22439318]

>>22427203
The ones on the last row look legitimately evil lol

[Anonymous No.22439393]

>>22430046
Enjoy bro

[Anonymous No.22439728]

>>22427203
>>22429034
>>22431188
>>22432823
>>22439017
Not a Paljeet but why is Hinduism rated so lowly by so many anons?
Specifically the notion that it endangers your soul?
I like Hindu music and dancing.
I find it wierd that one of the anons rates roman paganism higher than Hinduism. What are the main differences between the two?
Is the main issue with Hinduism reincarnation, karma and the caste system?

Apart from this anon lol
>>22436879

[Anonymous No.22439734]

>>22437702
I'm older than you, and orthodox churches are composed majorly of babushkas. You just like to larp, kid.

[Anonymous No.22439796]

>>22427241
>"I want to learn about religions, where do I start?"
>start with their basic dogmatic books that all the followers of those religions know
>"No, I'm skeptical"
are you fucking retarded?

[Anonymous No.22439800]

>>22431250
based

[Anonymous No.22439811]

>>22439300
to be fair, gnosticism and heretical christian mythology is fun as fuck
Its one of those cases of "man, I wish all this shit was real". Like, I know perfectly its all completely impossible nonsense, but its all just so fucking awesome and cool, I know its just my chuuni preferences that I'll never grow up from, but can you blame me?

[Anonymous No.22439815]

>>22439728
Because their entire conception of India comes from Pakistanis posting .webms of insane retards smearing poop on themselves.

[Anonymous No.22439828]

>>22439734
And they will all be saved, what's the problem retardus maximus?

[Anonymous No.22439838]

>>22439811
>to be fair, gnosticism and heretical christian mythology is fun as fuck
>Its one of those cases of "man, I wish all this shit was real". Like, I know perfectly its all completely impossible nonsense, but its all just so fucking awesome and cool, I know its just my chuuni preferences that I'll never grow up from, but can you blame me?

[Anonymous No.22439841]

>>22439728
I put hinduism on the same level as other ancient pagan religions: interesting as fuck, a lot of fun stories and myths, but utterly fucking ridiculous and impossible to be taken seriously as a real faith.

[Anonymous No.22439883]

>>22435527
Very well articulated brother.

[Anonymous No.22440018]

>>22437896
You really don't know what Taoism is, huh?

[Anonymous No.22440033]

>>22439728
I dislike everyone I've ever personally met of the Hindu faith.

[Anonymous No.22440347]

>>22427357
Mormonism

[Anonymous No.22440375]

>>22439728
hinduism is pretty much indian culture
there's barely any separation between faith and religion, unless you become a monk or something
that said,
>>>>>indian culture

[Anonymous No.22440381]

>>22440018
his knowledge of taoism come exclusively from chink webnovels

[Anonymous No.22440540]

>>22437859
Nah. Try and make me, bruh

[Anonymous No.22440587]

>>22427203

You have to go with truth. Not your personal preference.

[Anonymous No.22440605]

>>22439828
>And they will all be saved,
delusional larper

[Anonymous No.22441063]

>>22440605
Got got btfo zoom zoom

[Anonymous No.22441499]

>>22440605
Seething paganoid

[Anonymous No.22441918]

>>22427203
>Chinese folk religion on the same level as prots
Based

[Anonymous No.22442053]

>>22430058
Good post

[Anonymous No.22442115]

>>22441499
Don't ever call me by that name again

[Anonymous No.22442665]

>>22436879
>jews A tier
jews take over countries through usury then push degeneracy and debauchery as a good thing. they should be below F tier

[Anonymous No.22442827]

>>22427203
Here you. Only added the ones I've studied.

[Anonymous No.22442870]

Tier list but I ranked them by which symbol I find most aesthetically pleasing. Lets me real this is the only think which actually matters. The religion can have rich history and sound theology but if the symbol sucks, I'm not following that shit

Make it marketable we have to sell necklaces

[Anonymous No.22443207]

>>22442665
replace jews with catholics

[Anonymous No.22443477]

>>22442827
You "studied" these? How would you describe the theology of Islam in contrast to Orthodox theology?

[Anonymous No.22443872]

if any of you ever needed any proof that literally none of you religious faggots know anything, this thread is it.

each chart looks completely different to the next, and not a single one of you know the content of half of the religions you're ranking. just jerking your own brain off like sad faggots. lul

[Anonymous No.22444516]

>>22443872
One similarity pretty much all of the charts have is that apostolic forms of Christianity > Protestant/Evangelical Christianity

[Anonymous No.22444660]

>>22442870
Hi, jw elder. That's our current normie logo. Before we had the watchtower logo. Cause we keep on the watch for the end of this world. It was simple tho. Before that we had the cross and crown logo and it's bomb. Unfortunately we recognized Jesus died on a torture stake and not a cross so it had to go. When we learn more, rather then keeping traditions we make changes.....too bad

[Anonymous No.22444941]

>>22442870
What's your favourite Parva in the Mahabharata and what's your favourite piece of writing in the Mishnah

[Anonymous No.22444983]

>>22436879
>>22444941
Same question for you

[Anonymous No.22445047]

>>22427241

[Anonymous No.22445137]

>>22444516
Also atheist and jews ranked low

[Anonymous No.22445182]

>>22427203
*ahem*
>The Holy Bible
>The Holy Qur'an
>Tao te Ching
>The Analects
>Dhammapada
>The Holy Vedas
>The Hidden Words
>Witchcraft Today

[Anonymous No.22445467]

>>22445182
>>The Hidden Words
>>Witchcraft Today
The what

[Anonymous No.22445549]

>>22445467
Bah'ai and Wicca.

[Anonymous No.22445560]

>>22445549
Bah'ai is globohomo islam and Wicca is the tiktok of religions, you don't need to read a book

[Anonymous No.22445585]

>>22427203
Internet Orthodox/Catholic LARPers are so fucking cringe

[Anonymous No.22445647]

>>22445585
Why are atheists perma triggered

[Anonymous No.22445657]

>>22445647
I'm not an atheist

[Anonymous No.22445696]

>>22429034
>gnostic juche
I don't know what this is but it sounds immensely powerful and based.

[Anonymous No.22446171]

>>22427203
>>>/lit/sff/

[Anonymous No.22446196]

>>22427203
/lit/ might be the most intelligent and based board, but it still debates desert religions in 2023 like there's something credible in it

[Anonymous No.22446336]

>>22445657
Kek what are you? Tell me about your religion

[Anonymous No.22446338]

>>22446196
How low IQ must one have to be to make such a terrible post?

[Anonymous No.22446356]

>>22427203 Just watch this playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5Ag9n-o0IZBcVkZgYhQLehVEHs7tOl5c

[Anonymous No.22446362]

>>22427203

[Anonymous No.22446366]

>>22446196
Is that Irenicus?

[Anonymous No.22446367]

Orthodoxy is truth because no one can win a debate against it

[Anonymous No.22446368]

>>22446362
Evangelism and Baptism are different? How?

[Anonymous No.22446375]

>>22446368
Baptists come from the radical reformation and have their own theology
evangelical are an American splinter group that rejects everything baptists do plus theology in favor of hill song music and smoke machines

[Anonymous No.22446381]

>>22446375
Sounds made up, I talked to both and they believe the same things and no one can point to an actual difference.

[Anonymous No.22446387]

>>22446381
the difference is their church services

[Anonymous No.22446390]

>>22446368
Baptism is an African American religion.
>>22446375
Evangelicals have no theology. You're thinking of evangelical *tism which would be in E tier so long as it wasn't African American.

[Anonymous No.22446398]

>>22446387
That's liturgical not theological
>>22446390
It's not African American, but understand now why you ranked it like that: because they have lots of blacks and you don't care about theology. Classic prot

[Anonymous No.22446402]

>>22446368
Evangelicalism is christianity with action. Denominations are generally stagnant pools of sinners.

[Anonymous No.22446404]

>>22446398
Your big theology brain will be excellent fuel for hellfire.

[Anonymous No.22446428]

>>22446375
>Baptists come from the radical reformation
Baptists and Anabaptists are different things. Baptists come from the English Reformation. Anabaptists came from the Radical Reformation and exist today as Amish, Mennonites, etc.

[Anonymous No.22446432]

>>22446367
We can't win a debate against it because they have 2000 years of autistic tradition that no one understands

[Anonymous No.22446438]

>>22446367
All you have to do is examine the history of disputed dogmas like iconodulia and you'll find Orthodoxy is false.

[Anonymous No.22446441]

>>22446402
Evangelical action = voting for the GOP

[Anonymous No.22446444]

>>22446438
Iconoclasm is one of the weakest attacks and it doesn't work since prots never read the responses written for the 7th Ecumenical Council

[Anonymous No.22446448]

>>22446444
No it isn't. Nicaea II does not view iconodulia as a development but posits it to be a direct teaching of the Apostles, which is absolutely false and contrary to all available historical evidence. Catholics at least will try to tell you it's a development that wasn't initially part of the faith.

[Anonymous No.22446457]

>>22427203
All of this is made up nonsense with nice logos, just read The Unique and its Property instead

[Anonymous No.22446458]

>>22446448
>posits it to be a direct teaching of the Apostles,
Post the exact canon

[Anonymous No.22446471]

>>22446458
From the decree:

>... we keep unchanged all the ecclesiastical traditions handed down to us, whether in writing or verbally, one of which is the making of pictorial representations, agreeable to the history of the preaching of the Gospel, a tradition useful in many respects ...

>For the honour which is paid to the image passes on to that which the image represents, and he who reveres the image reveres in it the subject represented. ... Thus we follow Paul, who spoke in Christ, and the whole divine Apostolic company and the holy Fathers, holding fast the traditions which we have received.

>This is the faith of the Apostles, this is the faith of the orthodox, this is the faith which has made firm the whole world. Believing in one God, to be celebrated in Trinity, we salute the honourable images! ... For we follow the most ancient legislation of the Catholic Church. We keep the laws of the Fathers. We anathematize those who add anything to or take anything away from the Catholic Church.

https://www.papalencyclicals.net/councils/ecum07.htm

You seem to be trying to take the Catholic position here, since you asked for the "exact canon." Catholics will tell you that they must follow the dogmas defined by Nicaea II but not necessarily the reasoning behind those dogmas, which can be erroneous. Orthodox do not take this view of icons as a development, however.

[Anonymous No.22446482]

>>22446471
>Orthodox do not take this view of icons as a development, however.
This is why Orthodox even to this day believe silly fables like Luke being an icon painter, of which there is no evidence prior to the iconoclast crisis. They literally do think the apostles created and prayed through paintings that look like the icons they use today.

[Anonymous No.22446999]

>>22446471
>>22446482
They said they got the tradition down from the apostles, which matches their theology of icons: since the incarnation it became necessary to use icons since God became man which is depictable. There were early iconoclasts so icons were an early development. So it checks out . If you don't agree you can make a new thread too since this is over bump limit, but I don't think the iconoclast argument holds.

[Anonymous No.22447272]

>>22446999
Thread is about to die, but this is a very bad argument that will only work on people who have a vested interest in defending icons. You're saying this: We have no writings of the early fathers that support cultic veneration of images, only writings that condemn it and say that it's pagan. So the only writings that exist are Christians saying, "Don't do this pagan thing that you came out of. We Christians do not do this." This therefore is evidence that it's an early Christian tradition directly from the Apostles. Your argument is the one that doesn't hold because it turns Christian tradition into a joke. It means you can create a "tradition" out of literally anything as long as someone condemned something at some point. If they condemned it then it means it existed so therefore it's fine. LOL.

[Anonymous No.22447292]

>>22447272
>We have no writings of the early fathers that support cultic veneration of images, only writings that condemn it and say that it's pagan. So the only writings that exist are Christians saying, "Don't do this pagan thing that you came out of. We Christians do not do this."
Post them

[Anonymous No.22447293]

>>22447272
Also I won't be making a new thread, because this is how the argument goes. I've had it out on this topic a number of times and trying to deal with bullshit argumentation like this >>22446999 is simply not worth it. Iconophiles will ultimately say anything, whatever they can possibly come up with, no matter how ridiculous it is, because they *must* defend it, evidence be damned.

[Anonymous No.22447295]

>>22447292
There are many examples. I will post a few.

Epiphanius (d. 403), Bishop of Salamis, to John, Bishop of Jerusalem

"I came to a villa called Anablatha and, as I was passing, saw a lamp burning there. Asking what place it was, and learning it to be a church, I went in to pray, and found there a curtain hanging on the doors of the said church, dyed and embroidered. It bore an image either of Christ or of one of the saints; I do not rightly remember whose the image was. Seeing this, and being loth that an image of a man should be hung up in Christ's church contrary to the teaching of the Scriptures, I tore it asunder and advised the custodians of the place to use it as a winding sheet for some poor person. They, however, murmured, and said that if I made up my mind to tear it, it was only fair that I should give them another curtain in its place. As soon as I heard this, I promised that I would give one, and said that I would send it at once. ... I have now sent the best that I could find, and I beg that you will order the presbyter of the place to take the curtain which I have sent from the hands of the Reader, and that you will afterwards give directions that curtains of the other sort — opposed as they are to our religion — shall not be hung up in any church of Christ. A man of your uprightness should be careful to remove an occasion of offense unworthy alike of the Church of Christ and of those Christians who are committed to your charge."

[Anonymous No.22447299]

>>22447295
Eusebius (d. 339), Bishop of Caesarea, Letter to Constantia:

"You also wrote me concerning some supposed image of Christ, which image you wished me to send you. ... What sort of image of Christ are you seeking? Is it the true and unalterable one which bears His essential characteristics, or the one which He took up for our sake when He assumed the form of a servant? ... Surely then, you are seeking His image as a servant, that of the flesh which He put on for our sake. But that, too, we have been taught, was mingled with the glory of His divinity ... He showed on the mount that nature which surpasses the human one—when His face shone like the sun and His garments like light. Who, then, would be able to represent by means of dead colors and inanimate delineations the glistening, flashing radiance of such dignity and glory, when even His superhuman disciples could not bear to behold Him in this guise and fell on their faces, thus admitting that they could not withstand the sight? If, therefore, His incarnate form possessed such power at the time, altered as it was by the divinity dwelling within Him, what need I say of the time when He put off mortality and washed off corruption, when He changed the form of the servant into the glory of the Lord God ... How can one paint an image of so wondrous and unattainable a form ... unless, like the unbelieving pagans, one is to represent things that bear no possible resemblance to anything ... For they, too, make such idols when they wish to mould the likeness of what they consider to be a god ... Surely, even you will agree that such practices are not lawful for us."

(1/2)

[Anonymous No.22447301]

>>22447299
Eusebius cont.:

"But if you mean to ask of me the image, not of His form transformed into that of God, but that of the mortal flesh before its transformation, can it be that you have forgotten that passage in which God lays down the law that no likeness should be made either of what is in heaven or what is in the earth beneath? Have you ever heard anything of the kind either yourself in church or from another person? Are not such things banished and excluded from churches all over the world, and is it not common knowledge that such practices are not permitted to us alone?"

"Once—I do not know how—a woman brought me in her hands a picture of two men in the guise of philosophers and let fall the statement that they were Paul and the Saviour ... With the view that neither she nor others might be given offence, I took it away from her and kept it in my house, as I thought it improper that such things ever be exhibited to others, lest we appear, like idol worshippers, to carry our God around in an image. I note that Paul instructs all of us not to cling any more to things of the flesh; for, he says, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we Him no more."

(2/2)

[Anonymous No.22447307]

>>22447301
Pope Gregory the Great (d. 604), letter to Serenus, Bishop of Massilia:

"Furthermore we notify to you that it has come to our ears that your Fraternity, seeing certain adorers of images, broke and threw down these same images in Churches. And we commend you indeed for your zeal against anything made with hands being an object of adoration; but we signify to you that you ought not to have broken these images. For pictorial representation is made use of in Churches for this reason; that such as are ignorant of letters may at least read by looking at the walls what they cannot read in books. Your Fraternity therefore should have both preserved the images and prohibited the people from adoration of them, to the end that both those who are ignorant of letters might have wherewith to gather a knowledge of the history, and that the people might by no means sin by adoration of a pictorial representation."

NOTE: This is a late 5th century text from a point at which icons had become acceptable for educational use only. But it shows that their purpose even then was not for cultic usage.

[Anonymous No.22447320]

>>22447307
Lactantius (d. 325), Divine Institutes 2.1

"For the likeness of a man appears to be necessary at that time when he is far away; and it will become superfluous when he is at hand. But in the case of God, whose spirit and influence are diffused everywhere, and can never be absent, it is plain that an image is always superfluous. But they fear lest their religion should be altogether vain and empty if they should see nothing present which they may adore, and therefore they set up images; and since these are representations of the dead, they resemble the dead, for they are entirely destitute of perception. But the image of the ever-living God ought to be living and endued with perception. But if it received this name from resemblance, how can it be supposed that these images resemble God, which have neither perception nor motion? Therefore the image of God is not that which is fashioned by the fingers of men out of stone, or bronze, or other material, but man himself, since he has both perception and motion, and performs many and great actions. Nor do the foolish men understand, that if images could exercise perception and motion, they would of their own accord adore men, by whom they have been adorned and embellished, since they would be either rough and unpolished stone, or rude and unshapen wood, had they not been fashioned by man."

[Anonymous No.22447324]

>>22447295
>>22447299
>>22447301
>>22447307
>>22447320
Lol these are very old, you got nothing

>You can find images in Roman catacombs where Christians hid and worshipped (long before Nicene; look up "Christ as the Good Shepherd" from the Catacomb of Priscilla.)
>Tertullian (d. 220): Let the very paintings upon your cups come forward to show whether even in them the figurative meaning of that sheep will shine through
>Justin Martyr (d. 165) describes it [the Cross] in a way that already implies its use as a symbol (Dialogue with Trypho 91). He says that the cross is providentially represented in every kind of natural object: the sails of a ship, a plough, tools, even the human body (Apol. I, 55). According to Tertullian (d. about 240), Christians were known as "worshippers of the cross" (Apol., xv). Both simple crosses and the chi-rho monogram are common ornaments of catacombs; combined with palm branches, lambs and other symbols they form an obvious symbol of Christ.
This was a practice long before everything you cited, you're a fraud.

[Anonymous No.22447328]

>>22447320
Arnobius (d. 330), Against the Heathen 6.1

"Having shown briefly how impious and infamous are the opinions which you have formed about your gods, we have now to speak of their temples, their images also, and sacrifices, and of the other things which are nailed and closely related to them. For you are here in the habit of fastening upon us a very serious charge of impiety because we do not rear temples for the ceremonies of worship, do not set up statues and images of any god, do not build altars, do not offer the blood of creatures slain in sacrifices, incense, nor sacrificial meal, and finally, do not bring wine flowing in libations from sacred bowls; which, indeed, we neglect to build and do, not as though we cherish impious and wicked dispositions, or have conceived any madly desperate feeling of contempt for the gods, but because we think and believe that they — if only they are true gods, and are called by this exalted name — either scorn such honours, if they give way to scorn, or endure them with anger, if they are roused by feelings of rage."

[Anonymous No.22447336]

>>22447293
Tertullian, Justin Martyr, and early catacombs BTFO you. Stop playing the victim when you're just being a dishonest snake.

[Anonymous No.22447374]

>>22447336
This is pathetic and I don't have patience to deal with this anymore so I won't be responding again if this is the level of argumentation I'm dealing with.

1. Images in catacombs prove nothing. Christians did make some amount images in the early period. But there is no evidence at all of cultic veneration. The dogma of iconophiles is not "making a picture is okay", it's specific religious usage of these pictures in which honor or prayer is given to the image which then passes to who is represented by the image. There are other usages of images, e.g. education or decoration. But you have to conflate these as if they're the same thing, when they are not. Someone making an image does not mean they bowed to it, prayed through it, etc.

2. Tertullian is talking about the image of a sheep or a lamb. Early Christians who made images had a tendency to use allegorical representation, such as the Good Shepherd in the pic you posted, because they shied away from directly representing the subject. The Good Shepherd is not a direct picture of Christ but a depiction of an allegory utilized in a parable. Of course everything I said in point 1 applies here as well.

3. I note with Justin you are not providing quotes (you did not properly source the others either, so you are not doing your own research, just pasting from some apologetics site). I suppose I should take the use of the cross "as a symbol" to mean Christians prayed to paintings? This gets back to point 2, in which allegorical images were utilized but not direct ones. You appeal to the slander of pagans, so what do pagans say? You can find pagan objections directly addressed in other writings, such as Arnobius which I just posted, in which pagans slander Christians for not utilizing images and statues. Also confer Origen in pic related. The quotes are from an apologetic written against pagans, and he is addressing a pagan objection Christianity, that it is false because they do not use images.

There is zero evidence of cultic veneration of images among early Christians and all available evidence is to the contrary. There is not a single scrap of writing from any early father which supports praying through a statue or a painting, and everything they wrote condemns such behavior as pagan. If you believe that iconodulia was an early Christian tradition, you choose to live in a fantasy world rather than facing the truth. Have a good day.

[Anonymous No.22447387]

>>22447374
So you admit that
1. Early Christians made icons (Catacombs, Tertullian)
2. Early Chrstans venerated the cross (Justin Martyr)
Corect? If not, based on what do you reject these?

[Anonymous No.22447682]

>>22428157
No dummy. NTA but I read the Quran in French, English and and Arabic. Aside from the meaning itself, the translation looks and sounds dull. Reason why I always think that non-Arabic speaker will never truely experience the Quran to the fullest, hence the Bible too.

[Anonymous No.22447738]

Not reading the thread but are there any religions that don't read like retarded fantasy fiction novels with magic and dragons and shit?