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/lit/ - Literature

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22516767 No.22516767 [Reply] [Original]

Did Mr.Antolini try to groom him?

>> No.22516771

No Holden just freak out because of his toxic masculinity rejected some physical male bonding

>> No.22516774

Yeah and he has probably had it happen before considering his allusion to messed up stuff like that happening to him before. Holden had a pretty fucked up life.

>> No.22516775

>>22516767
No it's a reference to how fucked up Holden is that he literally can't even comprehend a person would actually care for him and affectionately touch him like he touches phoebe. That's why the phoebe scene comes right before antolini's scene. He even goes out of his way to describe antolini ruining his coat caring for the suicide kid, the guy is objectively really good and the interaction is normal, it's holden's reaction to it that is unnatural.

>> No.22516783

>>22516774
I interpreted that line as Holden being fucked up and routinely seeing normal interactions as "pervy". If the twenty times he claimed it happened were all as innocuous as antolini's incident then he's definitely just doing that weird homophobia thing teenage boys sometimes do.

>> No.22516791

>>22516783
I dunno man. Antolini was petting Holden on the head in the middle of the night while Holden was sleeping. Isn't that somewhat creepy? How would you feel to wake up to that? Then he denied he was doing anything. It was weird. I would feel extremely uncomfortable.

>> No.22516795

>groom
it's clear antolini diddled holden dude

>> No.22516804

>>22516791
If it was holden's mum instead of antolini would it still be creepy? That alone I think makes it normal enough but consider that other context on antolini, the whole ruined coat story, the affectionate touching of phoebe just pages earlier, holden being "wrong" about every single interaction he has the entire book. I can see the difference of opinion but I firmly believe it was just a slightly drunk, kind and caring man seeing the pain and trouble holden is in and empathizing.

>> No.22516830

>>22516804
>If it was holden's mum instead of antolini would it still be creepy?
What a retarded analogy.

>> No.22516865

>>22516830
What a retarded anon.
The analogy show the gesture is not inherently sexual, which means it depends on context, and the second part of the post is that the context indicates antonini isn't being creepy. Why is it the anon's who can't read or think are the first ones to start slinging slurs?

>> No.22516875

>>22516804
>>22516865
based nambla

>> No.22516883

>>22516875
>literal fatherless anons screaming rape every time a man touches them
Is this why 4chan is THE tranny website? It's filled with broken people like you?

>> No.22516906

>>22516767
One of my high school teachers was a child molester. The way he molested the boy was very similar to what Mr Antollini did. He invited the boy to sleep over, and touched him when he was asleep.

>> No.22516969

>>22516883
antolini is a creep. youre not american so you probably wouldnt know but everyone gets molested in our country

>> No.22517070

Yeah. When Holden arrives at Antolini's place, there are peanuts and stuff out so you can tell they just had a party. Mrs. Antolini says they had Mr. Antolini's "Buffalo friends" over and says she herself was just "in the sack."

We also encounter the academic closeted homosexual Luce who had to rush to a party (undoubtedly the same one) earlier when he talks with Holden.

Put the puzzle together, and you realize that Holden arrived just after some weird pervy academic sex-party

>> No.22517128

Unreliable narrator makes it impossible to know for sure.

>> No.22517208

>>22516804
>If it was holden's mum instead of antolini would it still be creepy?
No because a mother is very different from a man not from his family, obviously.
>the whole ruined coat story
Nothing to do with the possibility of Antolini being a creep or not
>the affectionate touching of phoebe just pages earlier
Again, very different situations
>holden being "wrong" about every single interaction he has the entire book.
Literally not true and the book isn't necessarily trying to portray Holden as in "the wrong" in any of the situations he were in; being a misguided young man and struggling with interpersonal interactions is not "being in the wrong" and the book isn't trying to make a case against Holden's nature, but mere portraying as it is.

>> No.22517260

>>22517208
>No because a mother is very different from a man not from his family, obviously.
This just means the context does matter. It's creepy and pedophilic when a mentor figure with a confirmed heart of gold rests his hand on holden's fevered head, but it's normal to pinch your little sister's ass because it's "sticking up"? Like what are you even arguing here? It's literally fatherless anons who think men can't sit next to each other on a bus without it looking gay.
>>22517208
>the book isn't necessarily trying to portray Holden as in "the wrong" in any of the situations he were in
It is though, which is what he says verbatim in the final chapter, where it's revealed he's saying his story to a psychoanalyst. He realized his bitterness and misanthropy was a front and he was wrong to reject all the people he met on his journey, that he can even bring himself to miss the pimp Maurice that actually sexually assaulted him after breaking into his hotel room. He second guesses the intentions and character and level of fakeness of every single person he meets and regrets it at the end.

>> No.22517323

>>22517260
>confirmed heart of gold
You barely know this character and just one story won't confirm that he has a "heart of gold", the only factual evidence we can get from the book is that Holden felt uncomfortable and Antolini, the "heart of gold" guy, instead of promptly apologizing, decided to make things even weirder by admitting that he was "admiring" Holden. What kind of grown men you know that likes to admire teenagers in their sleep? He acted nervous, not confused.
>It's literally fatherless anons who think men can't sit next to each other on a bus without it looking gay.
Weird, mindless projection. Holden himself felt weird, guess he was fatherless; better yet, i think that thousands of people who read this book were fatherless as well, since this is a recurring discussion.
>that he can even bring himself to miss the pimp Maurice that actually sexually assaulted him after breaking into his hotel room.
Still doesn't make Holden "in the wrong" in that situation. He was assaulted and robbed, he did nothing wrong in that situation, and that's a fact. You're taking that final quote at face value, and as completely change of heart by Holden, which is a weird interpretation.
>He second guesses the intentions and character and level of fakeness of every single person he meets and regrets it at the end.
True, but that very interaction with the pimp showed that he can still be abused and isn't 100% cynical all the time.

>> No.22517340

>>22516783
>>22516804
>>22516865
>>22516883
>>22517260
Found the pedophile who likes to admire boys in their sleep

>> No.22517411

>>22517260
>>22516883
>>22516865
>>22516804
>>22516783
>>22516771
Unironically kill yourselves tranny pedo faggots. You should all be hanged and shot.

>> No.22517457

Easy: no. This is a perfectly distilled moment in the story where Holden is helped by someone categorically not phony but cannot help but sabotage the whole thing.

>> No.22517486

>>22516865
In your analogy, the gesture is not inherently sexual because it's done by his mom. But Mr. Antolini is not his mom. He is a random adult that he met in his highschool.

>> No.22517571

>>22517457
Antolini was the phoniest out of all the phonies to ever phony.

>> No.22518146

>>22516783
This. It's a hilarious fit of queer scare and nothing more.

>> No.22518451

>anons don't even remember the kid that offed himself at holden's previous school where antolini taught
uh oh