/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.23044300]

Why do people not seem to notice the inherent contradiction in trying to merge Eastern aesthetics with Western thought?

[Anonymous No.23044307]

>>23044300
Because it's very hard for Christians to abandon the tribe since the religion is founded on guilt and shame.

[Anonymous No.23044308]

>>23044300
Eastern and Western aren't actually that different because most of Eastern thought comes from the Indians and most of Western thought comes from the greeks and both of them were just pulling shit from the Vedics anyways

[Anonymous No.23044313]

>>23044300
It’s fun. There’s no contradiction because characters can be Christian. Mario and Link are canonically Christian btw

[Anonymous No.23044366]

>>23044313
Link, yes, but it depends on which link.
Since there are different timelines and links that are different to each other.
Early zelda1 zelda2 link,link to the past link, ocarina of time link are probably Christian.
Demostrated by the symbol on their shild, or the Temple of time.
However later links, no, since they Worship a fictional god, hylia.
The large statues of hyla, in Skyward Sword, or Breath of The wild, are evidence of link-s following the Hylan Religion.
Mario was never, chistian, there is no mention of that, in Donkey kong arcade, or Smb1, Smb2,or Smb3.
Mario probably follows, a fictional "Religion of the stars" as shown in Sm64, paper mario or yoshis Island DS, where the characters are literally called "Children of the stars".
YouTube's channel:Religion for breakfast has a good video on Mario's star religion or Zelda's Hylia worship.

[Anonymous No.23044533]

I mean early anime were inspired by Disney films (Osamu Tezuka most infamously) and this inspiration has clearly carried on.
Ultimately, anime is a Japanese twist on a Western style to begin with, and now the West is copying it back. In fact the Japanese call all animation anime, from South Park to Evangelion. Not really a contradiction, just a quirk.
Unless you were meaning something other than anime.

[Anonymous No.23044661]

>>23044533
I kind of hate it when people say that anime was inspired by western animation, because while true in the start(like you said especially with Tezuka) i feel that its reductive to just say that, as it ignores the other, Japanese, video game and specially (and i would argue more important) Otaku influences on anime, like only Tezuka's contributions matter.
Its like, if Tezuka was so important, then why does anime nowadays dosent look like anything Tezuka producced?
And the influence of Anime to the west is to be expected since, the west has always historically adapted influences from outside, like from europe, or india.

[Anonymous No.23044676]

>>23044533
Samurai Movies inspired Western Cowboy Films.

[Anonymous No.23044697]

>>23044300
Because in modern western religion it's either aesthetic practice or you're a literal schizo and in the western world the aesthetics of christianity are passe so they borrow from that great heaping plate of eastern aesthetics

[Anonymous No.23044797]

>>23044697
>in the western world the aesthetics of christianity are passe
I don't think you've experienced enough Christian aesthetics. If you're in America like me then I could see why. Go to an Episcopal or Orthodox church to get something of it. Or Latin mass. I grew up in Italy where the old world soul pours from every street corner and I've travelled the world later in life. Italy has more soul on a single street than I found in entire eastern cities. But those were modernized cities with the same glass towers as everywhere else. BUT, Japan is indeed soulful and a rival to the old world.

[Anonymous No.23045267]

Christcucks lack self-awareness.

[Anonymous No.23045307]

"Why do people not seem to notice the inherent contradiction in trying to merge Eastern aesthetics with Western thought?"
_
_
_
_

Ehhh...
Isnt that what Christianity did?

[Anonymous No.23045326]

>>23044676
and those samurai movies were inspired by older cowboy movies and english plays

[Anonymous No.23045333]

What I've found is that most Christians (other than moderates/casuals) try to ignore, or even are outright ignorant of, the fact that there are many different versions of Christianity. It's a situation that very seriously undermines their worldview and makes it hard to market to others (consider the fact that an atheist who becomes scared by the concept of hell still can't make himself feel safe by adopting any given form of Christianity, as there are others who will maintain that he is still going to hell for picking the wrong one), so naturally they try to present Christianity as one thing and claim credit for things from completely different sects of Christianity even though they don't actually line up.

[Anonymous No.23045339]

>>23045307
No?

[Anonymous No.23045393]

>>23044797
Sure but at the end of the day it's just going to be depictions of Jesus on the cross and Mary crying, that's the aesthetic that for the western world has been stripped of meaning due to overuse. That's why swapping over to Hinduism, Buddhism or even Greek mythology gives you a whole new mcu full of colurful characters to try and give your life meaning with.

[Anonymous No.23045403]

>>23045339
Jews Old testament plus Jesus New testament =eastern aesthetics.
From the east, first jews, then grecce, then rome, then europe, then the modern west.
Greek philosophy/thomistic philosophy/roman science=western thought.
Which was fused with chistianity.
So Eastern Aesthetics plus Western Thought.
Which part i was wrong?

[Anonymous No.23045421]

>>23045333
checked and yes Ive encountered this problem whenever I try to discuss other types of christianity with christians. they either get visibly angry, passive-aggressive, or just ignore what youre saying. its very odd, their reluctance to learn about others and their insistence that only their way is correct.
>they try to present Christianity as one thing and claim credit for things from completely different sects of Christianity even though they don't actually line up.
ive also encountered this alot, especially from protestants. they completely ignore that early christianity resembled catholicism or orthodoxy much more than protestantism, or that the only reason protestants have the bible they have today is because the catholic nicean councils decided and picked which books to put in the bible, and still blame catholics for everything wrong with christians. I saw some retard on twitter with millions of followers saying that 'the catholics' removed all the books of the apocrypha from the bible. which is true if you count the older books like the protoevanglion or the gospel of saint bartholomew, which I can guarantee no fucking protestant has ever read or heard of in their entire lives, nor would they care to since most of those books lend more credence to medieval catholic legends than they do anything from the bible. it was luther who removed the other apocryphal books like daniel and the dragon but protestants will just completely ignore that and lay the blame to catholics. and catholics are just as bad because they pretend these problems are the only things that define protestantism, and ignore that there were earlier splits in christianity and an obvious growing resentment against the rigid structure of the church during those times. ironically no christian sect seems willing to pick out the logs in their own eyes, as theyre too busy bothering the other sects about specks in theirs

[Anonymous No.23045434]

>>23044300
Isn't your pic the best example that it can, in fact, be done?
It's an Eastern-made series with Western thoughts, and almost everyone loves it. Hell, every name in the series is German.

[Anonymous No.23045448]

>>23045434
>effete men
>western thoughts
no

[Anonymous No.23045475]

>>23045448
Yes

[Anonymous No.23045476]

I'm not sure exactly what you mean OP, but "poetic license" is a thing

[Anonymous No.23045478]

>>23045476
>be britbong
>need a poetry liscence

[Anonymous No.23045480]

>>23044661
... Anon lupin came out in the 70's. Video games were still dots on screens.

[Anonymous No.23045808]

>>23045421
It's always amazed me how insulting Protestants are towards Catholics, they'll say things that get me offended, on their behalf, as a fedora tipper. Several times one of them has told me "I'm not a Catholic, I'm a Christian", not like as a rhetorical approach (i.e. "your house is not an asset") but as an actual statement of believed fact, and they get confused when I explain that Catholics are in fact Christians.

A lot of them don't even know the word "protestant", they actually think the meta classification of their 80-people-in-a-wooden-box-with-a-book religion is just "Christian" and if you're curious to understand Christianity you have only but to ask them.

[Anonymous No.23045825]

>>23045403
Israel isn't really "the east", Greece is basically due north of Israel and you listed it as western. I'll concede that it's kind of on the border but I haven't really heard it described that way (especially considering that half of this thread seems to think Japanese anime somehow had something to do with the topic), it doesn't have traits of "eastern" thought.

[Anonymous No.23045842]

>>23045825
You're dead on target. It's not at all eastern. I'd go a step further and say that the entire OT is distinctively Greek and the NT is distinctly Roman.

[Anonymous No.23045867]

>>23045842
They're both Greek, that part of the Roman empire was basically just Greece. They spoke Greek and everything, hence why the NT is in Greek.

[Anonymous No.23045878]

>>23044313
This is the chud equivalent of "X SAYS TRANS RIGHTS"

[Anonymous No.23045882]

>>23045867
You're right. Now that I think of it, everything but the blatant stoicism is rooted in Greekdom.

[Anonymous No.23045897]

>>23044307
The closer any man comes to the Divine the more he is aware of his separation from it. This is the nature of sin.

But Christianity is a religion founded on promise, not shame, on theosis and transcendence.

[Anonymous No.23045906]

>>23044366
Mario is Italian. He is definitely Catholic.

Link is from a forest near the mountains and alpine meadows. Possibly Austrian, and thus Catholic, but also possibly German, and thus Lutheran (Atheist). He may also be Swiss and this Calvinists (Satanist).

[Anonymous No.23045916]

>>23045882
Isn't stoicism literally a Greek philosophy?

[Anonymous No.23045929]

>>23045842
The older parts of OT is definitely not Greek. The NT is, and you can see Greek influence in later OT books, particularly the Deutrocanonical books.

Lines from Numbers in proto-Hebraic have been found predating Homer and the Noah story, down to the lines "two by two," shows up on Sumerian tablets well over a thousand years older than Homer. The roots of of the OT are vastly older than anything resembling Greek culture.

And it shows too, there are more similarities in the early OT books with ancient Egyptian and Sumerian works than with the much later Greek works.

[Anonymous No.23045935]

>>23045825
You're ignorant. Egyptians, Persians, and Hebrews were considered Eastern for all of antiquity. They were alien to the Greek west and only syncretized shortly before the formation of Christianity
>>23045842
This is even more ridiculous. The Old Testament wasnt even translated into Greek until the Jews moved to Alexandria around 100 BC. The New Testament was written originally in Greek, in the Hellenized world.
>>23045882
Stoicism is a Greek philosophy which claimed the be the true heir of Socratic though

[Anonymous No.23045938]

>>23045929
King David, for instance, is generally placed around 1000BC. Homer, the fount of what would become Greek culture lived two centuries later.

The current version of the Bible likely comes a good deal later, but long sections of it, often prayers, show up in things dating much further back, the 13th and 14th century BC, and then some of the early Genesis stuff predates anything resembling Hebrew even by many centuries.

[Anonymous No.23045939]

>>23045929
Weren't a lot of later OT books dropped from the Bible by Protestants for being to Hellenic? The apocrypha is just the Hellenized Jews recounting their cultural transformation

[Anonymous No.23045958]

>>23045939
They drop a number of books that show up in the Septuagint, the Greek translation of the Jewish OT, that were not kept in the authoritative Bible of rabbinical Judaism compiled in the middle of the medieval period. But it's worth noting that the NT uses the Septuagint to quote from the OT, and it's what Jesus appears to use in the Gospels.

Their removal had to do with a mix of political and theological issues as well as controversy surrounding the fact that contemporary Jews rejected them. But Jews were the people who originally set them down and used them as Scripture. It seems likely that the Septuagint was only later rejected by Jews precisely because it was associated with Christianity. Books associated with it were then likewise rejected.

But at least some of those books appear to have been originally written in Hebrew now.

There are also some significant differences in parts of the OT. The Dead Sea Scrolls shed some light on this, but it isn't always clear whether the Septuagint or Masoretic text is being more authentic to even older texts or not.

You have similar variances between sources that predate Hebrew. For instance, the oldest tablet describing the Noah story has the Ark as being round, although the other surviving substance seems the same.

[Anonymous No.23045968]

>>23045935
>You're ignorant
>*because what you said doesn't line up with a definition no one in this thread used or implied*
>This is even more ridiculous
>*because the explanation I assume you would provide differs from some details I think govern the whole issue*
I know this is 4chan and all but you don't have to be so pointlessly rude.

[Anonymous No.23045972]

>>23045968
You made historical claims which are flat out false. Separating Hebrew tradition from Western tradition is implied in the historical assesment, which you totally overlooked in making the historical claim that Israel would be western in antiquity.
>some details I think govern the whole issue*
Yes, the fact that the Old Testament is not Greek and the New Testament is not Roman do in fact govern the entire issue. Don't be butthurt that you were called ignorant and just accept that you were wrong

[Anonymous No.23045974]

>>23045938
The OT was written long after the (alleged) events it describes. Estimates vary, obviously, but we're generally talking about 600-100 BC. There was certainly some Greek influence when at least some parts of it were written.

[Anonymous No.23045977]

I wonder what Shusaku Endo would think of the recent trend of Catholic weeaboos.

[Anonymous No.23045982]

>>23045939
>>23045958
The deuterocanonical books were never universally accepted as being equally canonical with the rest of the OT, and this issue goes back to the patristic era. It didn't start with Protestants.

[Anonymous No.23045983]

>>23045972
>You made historical claims which are flat out false
Western and Eastern are relative terms that depend entirely on the context they are used in, you fucking retard. You have not come anywhere close to 'owning me with heckin facts and logic', you've just thrown out random details that don't directly refute anything anyone said.

It's kind of amazing that someone who doesn't understand the difference between the concept of "Greek" as in Greek-like and "Greek" as in the literal Greek language would have this sort of opinion about his own intelligence. Especially when it is so obvious from the context:
>I'd go a step further and say that the entire OT is distinctively Greek and the NT is distinctly Roman.
No one was saying they were written in those respective languages, certainly not the language of "Roman"

[Anonymous No.23045999]

>>23045977
Recognize that they're LARPers and go about his day normally.

[Anonymous No.23046011]

>>23045999
Serious question, for you and Anons more generally: at what point do you consider someone claiming to practice a religion not a LARPer?

I notice that label gets thrown around a lot, even for people who seem to have seriously converted to Christianity, or Islam, or whatever, up to the point of fundamentally altering the practice of their lives around it.

At what point is it not a LARP, for you all? Is it ever? Are you ever willing to accept that a young person living in the modern world can have genuine religious faith?

[Anonymous No.23046028]

>>23046011
Ultimately my opinion about (You) does not matter. But if the primary way that you express your supposed faith is posting anime porn and talking about how you want to slay the heathen then I'm going to call a duck a duck.

[Anonymous No.23046035]

>>23046011
If they're an atheist convert they're automatically LARPers in my book. Even in extreme circumstances where they appear to actually believe what they claim to, they're still so profoundly different from the core religious population that it's functionally quite similar.

My view is kind of extreme, so I'll suggest a more practical standard: two whole years of actively practicing it. It would weed out most of these teenagers.

[Anonymous No.23046044]

>>23044533
Why do all you niggers forget to mention the influence of Franco-Belgian comics on the style of Japanese animation, the styles are diverged enough to not really matter anyways

[Anonymous No.23046051]

>>23046011
>>23046028
>Are you ever willing to accept that a young person living in the modern world can have genuine religious faith?
The answer to this is "yes" by the way. I've even known some in real life. Suffice it to say they have not behaved in this manner.

[Anonymous No.23046054]

>>23045972
>you totally overlooked in making the historical claim that Israel would be western in antiquity.
Not him, but it was after the Egyptians and Assyrians receded. The Sea Peoples invaded and the Greeks moved in. There are literally Aeolic columns in the Levant. This is historical fact. Hence why the Greek authors of the Septuagint emphasized that the Hebrews claimed they were related to the Spartans - a Doric people no less.

[Anonymous No.23046057]

Nevermind nondualism christians have serious issues with monism. Imagine thinking the cartesian was right about anything after he called the demon bullshit but didn't explain why. His whole argument and everything that follows is hot dogshit.

[Anonymous No.23046063]

>>23046054
That is because the Aeolic order comes from the levant and was developed into the Ionic order in Greece

[Anonymous No.23046145]

>>23045983
Holy crap are you still coping just because you got offended? If you want someone to apologize before correcting you head on over to reddit.

[Anonymous No.23046152]

>>23046035
The entire point of Christianity is to evangelize and convert people. The idea that you have to be born Christian to be Christian is literally what Jesus was refuting by going to the Gentiles

[Anonymous No.23046153]

>>23045968
You're right. He's just an ass

[Anonymous No.23046160]

>>23046063
Meds. Now.

[Anonymous No.23046171]

>>23046011
It's a question of the wheat and the tares. You can't actually know what a person's inner convictions are, but it definitely is not anyone's place to say another's professed faith is a lie.
Someone larping as a Christian is a good first step anyway. That person is larping because he recognizes that there is something good inherent to Christianity. That's what Jesus described as sowing seeds, and you want to cultivate it into mature faith.
It's worthing noting that Scripture does in fact distinguish between mature faith and new faith. New converts are still young in the faith and need spiritual feeding to mature. Too much of the larp accusers are either incredulous atheists who refuse that atheism isn't inevitable, or pharisical Christians who need to be more humble.

[Anonymous No.23046176]

>>23046153
The statement was ignorant and wrong regardless if I'm an ass hole.

[Anonymous No.23046200]

>>23046176
See you're actually factually incorrect about everything,the fact you're an asshole just makes you less bearable.

[Anonymous No.23046257]

>>23045935
>You're ignorant. Egyptians, Persians, and Hebrews were considered Eastern for all of antiquity
Hebrew are not peers with those other groups. They don't show up until after the Maccabean revolt.

>They were alien to the Greek west and only syncretized shortly before the formation of Christianity

All of these cultures had contacts with the Greeks, Hebrewism grew distinctly within the Greek sphere of culture. It was a Canaanite reaction to being subsumed.

> The Old Testament wasnt even translated into Greek until the Jews moved to Alexandria around 100 BC

Your chronology is wrong. It was a century and a half prior, and in reality there were likely no jews involved. The entire thing was crafted by the scribes of Ptolemy. This is a well understood fact for non-theologically oriented historians.

>The New Testament was written originally in Greek

The first ever written Old Testament was compiled in Greek. When the Vatican held the entire Dead Sea Scrolls in stow they emphasized the fact that they are downstream to the Greek. Subordinate. The Masoretic that most rabbinicalists use today comes from after the 9th century AD, long after and heavily edited for political ends.

>Stoicism is a Greek philosophy which claimed the be the true heir of Socratic though

According to?

[Anonymous No.23046295]

>>23045825
>Israel isn't really "the east",
It is. It's in Asia lol nothing western about it.

[Anonymous No.23046471]

>>23046200
Cry about it

[Anonymous No.23046929]

>>23045906
He isn’t Italian, he’s japanese. This has been confirmed by Nintendo.

[Anonymous No.23046943]

>>23046929
He's Italian-American now. They retconned.

[Anonymous No.23046952]

>>23045326
And those English plays were inspired by legends and historical events.

[Anonymous No.23047170]

>>23045897
It’s literally the first story in the bible you retarded nigger.

[Anonymous No.23047693]

>>23046152
>"convert" due to soijak memes about atheists being fat and christian women wearing sundresses and dancing in wheat fields
>try to convince others that you're a 1st century Christian directly converted by Jesus
LARP

[Anonymous No.23047696]

>>23046171
>but it definitely is not anyone's place to say another's professed faith is a lie.
It's pathetic that people would say something like this here

[Anonymous No.23048261]

>>23044300
anime in the first place was derivative of disney animation style, so reverse uno bingo bravo to you, charlatan.

[Anonymous No.23048429]

>>23045307
>Isnt that what Christianity did?
Yes, but it's so buried in the past, and American religion has tried and failed to purge it for over 300 years

[Anonymous No.23048436]

>>23045333
>>23045421
>>23045808
Fully agreed with this. I find it cowardly honestly. It's not easy, there is a lot I don't like about American Christianity, but I am stronger and more well-rounded person for taking the time to learn from it, and in turn I understand far more about American History and why Americans act the way they do because I forced myself to be humbled.

[Anonymous No.23048450]

>>23046011
>at what point do you consider someone claiming to practice a religion not a LARPer?
They go to Church regularly and inconvenience themselves on traditions that do not benefit them because they are making a genuine effort. Anything more than that is unfair. Anything less than that could still not be LARPing, but it becomes more likely.

[Anonymous No.23048462]

>>23047693
>try to convince others that you're a 1st century Christian directly converted by Jesus
>LARP
Not that anon, but that is how of lot of American Christianity has worked during all the Great Awakening movements. Now if you still hold to the same opinion on the position that American Christianity is a giant LARP, then I'll respect that.

[Anonymous No.23048537]

>>23048462
My opinion is that American Christianity is a giant LARP, but LARPing alone in in your bedroom is even more so.

[Anonymous No.23048562]

>>23048537
All religions are a LARP because people don’t know how to be human. Same goes for NPC’s.

[Anonymous No.23048575]

>>23048562
"" "" "" "All religions are a LARP because people don’t know how to be human. Same goes for NPC’s."" "" "" ""
Evidence for that?
I find hard to believe that some random human figured the truth of all religions, and how they correlate to humans.
So please show the evidence That let you to that conclusion.

[Anonymous No.23048585]

>>23048462
Oh, and I do recognize a major difference between being raised in one kind of Christianity and converting to a different one and/or being "born again" and becoming much more serious about it, and trying to adopt the whole thing from the ground up as an unbaptized atheist. If you're raised with some casual Christianity then you have a concept of God that you've just come to see as not real, it's much easier to 'turn it back on' and add/remove traits to it than it is to conjure it up from nowhere.

My dad is a fedora tipper and raised me as one, so I actually lack an emotional presence of "God", I've had to stop and really think about what watered-down Christians mean when they casually drop phrases like "God's plan" or whatever. I have played around with religion, like virtually everyone here, but it just doesn't click for me because it wasn't there to start with.

[Anonymous No.23048588]

The theology of the Church lays claim to universality. An aesthetic is only exclusive in so far as it contradicts theology. And in the case of the Western church, you could argue Westerners already did it as early as the renaissance. I mean, people really wonder why atheists imagine Christians believe in a bearded man in the sky when that’s what Michelangelo was commissioned to paint on the Sistine Chapel.

[Anonymous No.23048614]

>>23048588
There is pretty good evidence supporting the idea that Jews and early Christians actually did believe in God as a bearded man in the sky. The idea of God as essentially a mathematical concept of unlimited condensed power and knowledge (or however you would put it) seems to have taken hold around the time of Thomas Aquinas, it wouldn't have garnered much support at a time when we were just moving away from religions that revolved around slaughtering goats to statues.

[Anonymous No.23048686]

>>23044300
Eastern thought you mean like Abrahamism which is objectively foreign to europe?

[Anonymous No.23048690]

>>23044300
Chistianity no knowledge i am there for the first one is a combination of both of them are in the Bible says the one who is the sacred and the only thing keeping it from dominanting is the sacred e in in in the Bible says the one who is the sacred year of the new world order to get the visions of the kingdom of God in heaven is 2024 in person who is this still available for the first one is a combination of both of them are in the Bible says.

[Anonymous No.23048712]

>>23048686
Abrahamism is a Greek invention. There's nothing Semitic about it. This is actually a great example of how western it is. There's a story where Abraham is supposed to kill his son because god says so. He doesn't. Filicide is a key aspect of middle eastern religion, which the Canaanites did also. It's a westernism not to.

Another example is the foundation of Zion. It's told in explicitly Greek terms, called a ktisis story, or foundational myth. Gmirkin writes more on that if you're interested.

[Anonymous No.23048726]

>>23048712
Wrong, it's Zoroastrianism. Look up William Donahue.

[Anonymous No.23048729]

>>23048726
I'm already familiar with the theory, but Zoroastrianism is an argument for an east-west continuum. But plagiarizations abound from other sources.

[Anonymous No.23048736]

>>23048729
Fundamentally it's dualistic, that's Zoroastrianism.

[Anonymous No.23048771]

>>23048736
Fundamentals is Zoroastrian not dualism.
So you are wrong.

[Anonymous No.23048777]

>>23048614
Complete bullshit. It totally contradicts the earliest theology we have access to. It also contradicts revelation and the message of Christ. What you’re doing is going “oh look a few people depicted this god as a man in the sky so that must have been what they believed” and you’re retarded for doing that.

[Anonymous No.23048782]

>>23048771
Are you dumb? What it is called does not define it's fundemental philosophy.

[Anonymous No.23048790]

>>23048782
Dualism is a taoist,or a descartes theory not Zoroastrian,ok?

[Anonymous No.23048791]

>>23048777
How about actually reading the first chapter of the bible you supposedly believe in lmao

[Anonymous No.23048796]

>>23048790
Damn, you are fucking retarded.

[Anonymous No.23048800]

>>23048796
this

[Anonymous No.23048802]

>>23048796
So i correct you, and you respond insulting me?
Why, i didn't even do anything wrong.

[Aminom, Master of Holographic Origami No.23048809]

>>23044300
There is no such thing as "Western Thought" as a discrete entity with an identifiable essence.
The question is: what "Eastern" and "Western" thought are you trying to merge?

>The ultimate metaphysical principle is the advance from disjunction to conjunction, creating a novel entity other than the entities given in disjunction. The novel entity is at once the togetherness of the ‘many’ which it finds, and also it is one among the disjunctive ‘many’ which it leaves; it is a novel entity, disjunctively among the many entities which it synthesizes. The many become one, and are increased by one. -Alfred North Whitehead, Process and Reality

[Anonymous No.23048812]

>>23048802
You didn't correct him, you don't understand what dualism is. See here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dualism_in_cosmology

[Anonymous No.23048821]

>>23048812
No, the wiki, you linked does not show Zoroastrianism.
Even if it did, it would be wrong, since Zoroastrianism is not dualistic.

[Anonymous No.23048834]

>>23048821
Just straight lying, read it again.

[Anonymous No.23048847]

>>23048821
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dualism_in_cosmology#Zoroastrianism

[Anonymous No.23048876]

>>23048847
I seen it again.
Again, no, the wiki, you linked does not show Zoroastrianism.
Even if it did, it would be wrong, since Zoroastrianism is not dualistic.
Ok?
You understand?
Stop sending the wiki thing.

[Anonymous No.23048878]

>>23048736
Hellenism is dualistic. It's dualist polytheism.

[Anonymous No.23048884]

>>23048876
lol

[Anonymous No.23048927]

>>23048878
No you are wrong, dualism is taoist theory, or descartes theory, no hellenism. Ok?

[Anonymous No.23049148]

>>23045267
I’m sure you’re very assured of your own metaphysical shortcomings

[Anonymous No.23049256]

>>23045808
>"I'm not a Catholic, I'm a Christian"
tbf Ive heard this the other way around from a mexican kid lmao. I guess he never said (or paid attention to) the apostles creed. but yes ive heard it the other way around more often than not. certain protestants like JW's will say it with a certain amount of disdain and disgust that seems unfitting for a christian. I dont think JW's care about anything said in the gospels though, Ive had JW friends and they will admit that they read the old testament more than the new. essentially just elitist judaizers.
>>23046011
Many have the name of God upon their lips, but few have it engraved upon their hearts. I think alot more people are larpers than would care to admit, and I don't think it matters whether you were raised in the religion or not. I know alot of people who were raised in a religion but dont really seem to care for it, and perhaps they just dont show it externally but it seems their zeal died years ago to me. My earlier attempts at religion were cringe and larpy, but they were genuine, and I genuinely believed in the powers I called upon, never questioning their existence, I have always believed in higher powers and unseen forces in this world, and so God was not an illogical conclusion for me to come to. I think a man who was raised catholic, goes to church every week, says the rosary every day, but has an ounce of doubt in his heart is more a larper than some guy in a wizard robe calling on odin in the woods, without any authentic prayers or rituals to give, but who truly believes in that power, and truly believes he calls upon a God, without any question. Its all a larp if you dont actually have faith

[Anonymous No.23050238]

>>23044300
i don't know. but /rec/ me a good elf SEG novel. i already read GATE isekai. also tell me where to download the sequel :GATE with warships.

[Anonymous No.23050419]

>>23048614
>aquinas
augustine was the same and lived quite a bit before. don’t start talking if you have literally no idea if what you are saying is true

[Anonymous No.23050424]

>>23049256
your idea of faith is facile, like all fedora tippers. believing in something for you is inhuman devotion to it. john of the cross, dark night of the soul, etc. all religious traditions have lots of literature on doubt, struggle, the will to believe. you assume concrete dogmatism and interior solidity and deadness is what a belief consists of when it isn’t, a belief lives in you and is part of your growth and life. saying that someone who doubts or questions their view of reality, or struggles with it even once, is larping, says more about you than it does anyone else. you want total inflexible commitment or nothing.

[Anonymous No.23050494]

>>23045421
The protestant translators also chose their own books and started a different combination of books.. There isn't really much you can add in once it has been lost.

[Anonymous No.23050504]

>>23045938
The Genesis is probably not the oldest part of the bible but a later addition, the older parts are likely the patriarch sections.

[Anonymous No.23050511]

>>23044661
>if Tezuka was so important, why doesn't anything look like what he produced
If Shakespeare was so important, why doesn't anyone write like he did?

[Anonymous No.23050520]

>>23050424
>being arrogant about something you doubt anyway
triune Jewish volcano demon with wine-god characteristics, if you are listening, spare me from the torment of christlarpers

[Anonymous No.23050528]

>>23050520
>I am incapable of questioning myself, I am done learning, I am the apotheosis of all I can be and know truly and sure every secret of reality
you can’t really call anyone else arrogant. atheist or christian, you are built to be a dogmatist no matter what creed you stumble into

[Anonymous No.23050576]

>>23050424
doubter detected

[Anonymous No.23050888]

>>23047693
If you don't evangelize then you aren't properly practicing Christianity. Absolutely amazing to see self professed Christians tell converts to not even bother trying. Absolutely unbiblical

[doubtposting !!0CYbMy7gCdH No.23050925]

>>23044300
Alchemy, heresy, and syncretism is rad. Especially if it's Anno's coworker saying they put Christian aesthetics in Eva bc they thought it fucked. Suck it.

[Anonymous No.23051157]

>>23046011
I'm a cradle Catholic who volunteers with a lay order and does readings at my local Eastern Catholic Divine Liturgy, and fedoras on 4chan have called me a """larper""" for even the most milquetoast noncombative religious sentiments.

These dummies don't have any criteria for any of this shit they accuse. It's just a bad faith deflection and they're best ignored.

[Anonymous No.23051178]

>>23045977
What would Blessed Fra Gerard and Pope Paschal II think of this Japanese Knight of Malta?
>https://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/15050717

[Anonymous No.23051191]

>>23050925
Based Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood Evangelion enjoyer.
-
Alchemy, heresy, and syncretism is indeed rad.
Every Christian that says otherwise is a ChristCuck of the highest caliber.

[Anonymous No.23051205]

>>23044300
I don't think there is such a contradiction between aesthetics and thought.

[Anonymous No.23051248]

>>23046929
>>23045878
The Link one is tenuous at best due to the timeline fuckery in the early 2010s, but Mario is literally an Italian-American plumber and most Italian Americans are Catholic. That one makes sense canonically.

[Anonymous No.23051261]

>>23051248
So just because hes Italian canonicly that means he is a catholic Christian?
I dont follow that logic.
Like, what if the actual reason Nintendo hasn't stated mario's religion, is, because, wait for it.... Its just not relevant and it has no place in the Mario franchise.
Also if mario is supposed to be a catholic Christian, does that mean Jesus Christ lived in mario's world canonically?
I should not have to say why that's weird and causes problems.
So no, mario's probably not a Christian, in fact hes probably not anything.
So stop ascribing him as a Christian.
Its dumb and cringe and it makes you look retarded.

[Anonymous No.23051278]

>>23051261
>So just because hes Italian canonicly that means he is a catholic Christian?
Not necessarily, but it's not a logical stretch to assume that he's a Catholic Christian given that he comes from a population that is primarily Catholic Christian.

Does it really matter at the end of the day? No. It's just "BING BING WHOOHOO". I think that was what the previous anon was trying to say.

So no, mario's probably not a Christian, in fact >hes probably not anything.
>So stop ascribing him as a Christian.
>Its dumb and cringe and it makes you look retarded.

Fair enough. I'm not one to care about the lore of fucking Mario games of all things.

[Anonymous No.23051288]

>>23051278
Ok fair enough, i think im just tired of people that go "oh that video game character is like me, he's my faith" i see it all the time in early games, like people ascribing Christianity to fucking Mario or Link of all things.
Its so stupid and retarded.

[Anonymous No.23051298]

>>23045448
>effete men
Tell me you never actually read it without telling me you never actually read it. Those3 characters are all incredibly masculine.

[Anonymous No.23051344]

>>23051298
Fuck off i don't care about the elf anime.
Those characters look like "effete men" to me, so fuck off.

[Anonymous No.23051370]

>>23044307
>the religion is founded on guilt and shame
It's not.

[Anonymous No.23051382]

>>23051370
Yes it is,look to the original sin that "Adam and Eve" (No proof of them, i must add) created a original sin, that according to Christianity, we all have in the present.
If you don't get how "the religion is founded on guilt and shame" with that, then you are an idiot.

[Anonymous No.23052816]

>>23051344
>make up shit
>get called out
>NOOO I DON'T EVEN CARE SHUT UUUPP!!!!!!!

[Anonymous No.23052821]

>>23051382
Jesus redeemed us already. Cope

[Anonymous No.23053036]

>>23051157
I really think it's a result of the "Atheism is Unstoppable!" mindset that they internalized. They seriously cannot understand that people in current year have genuine religious and spiritual motives and experiences. And it's a neat little unfalsifiable accusation they can throw around when they get challenged

[Anonymous No.23053054]

>>23051382
Acknowledging human weakness isn't a foundation of guilt and shame. Philosophers as early as Plato discussed weakness of the will. In Greek the term is Akrasia and was the subject of much discourse. Original Sin is just a theological explanation for Akrasia.
Besides, like the another anon said Scripture talks a lot about how we are absolved of sin, justified, and glorified, and that we get to boast in God. This was a major foundational piece to Luther's theology. There is now no condemnation under the Law, but freedom in Christ

[Anonymous No.23053060]

>>23052821
Jasus, is a dead corpse in a stick that you guys worship.
Crusificion fetishists.
Cope.

[Anonymous No.23053066]

>>23044300

[Anonymous No.23053084]

>>23053054
"Acknowledging human weakness isn't a foundation of guilt and shame.blablabla......"
>>Philosophy cope.
You are coping with the reality of your faith and you know it.
So i hope that cope helps you, bro.

[Anonymous No.23053117]

>>23053084
I have no idea what you're talking about

[Anonymous No.23053126]

>>23053117
You have no idea, because you are a retarded ChristCuck. Lol.

[Anonymous No.23053161]

>>23053126
Can you explain a coherent thought or are you just going to spam cope again

[Anonymous No.23053170]

>>23053161
Here's your coherent though:
Your religion is founded on guilt and shame.
Understand now?

[Anonymous No.23053174]

>>23053170
I already responded to that.

[Anonymous No.23053177]

>>23047170
LITERALLY
THE FIRST STORY IN THE BIBLE
IS ABOUT NOT
SACRIFICING
YOUR KIDS

CHRIST IS KING.

[Anonymous No.23053183]

>>23053174
And your response sucked, try again i guess?

[Anonymous No.23053192]

>>23053183
The response addressed your claim, to which you could only reply with "cope" three times in one post. Did you have anything meaningful to add or are you going to say cope again?

[Anonymous No.23053201]

>>23053177
I didn’t say it was you disingenuous liar. But if you want to go down that route let’s talk about how God sacrificed his own son as a scapegoat for the sins of the world he created.

[Anonymous No.23053205]

>>23053192
You are a idiot coward who's hiding behind philosophy.
I already destroyed your religion with the "Your religion is founded on guilt and shame" , post but you dont seem to get i already did that.
You just can't fully understand the reality of your faith so you just try to cowardly deal with it.

[Anonymous No.23053214]

>>23044300
You have neither an argument nor a point.
>>23044307
Conclusion does not follow.

[Anonymous No.23053226]

>>23053214
It’s a control tactic used by abusers, look it up.

[Anonymous No.23053243]

>>23053205
How is that hiding behind philosophy? Akrasia is a central subject to western thought since Plato. You would have to say all of western civilization starting with the Greeks is founded on guilt and shame. My point very clearly went over your head. Humans are fallible. I doubt even you would challenge that. Why are we fallible? Philosophy provides some explanations, but I stated in my original reply that I do not have a philosophical answer but instead a theological one. Humans are fallible because of Original Sin. Does that mean we have to live in guilt and shame? No. I quoted scripture which says quite the opposite. "There is now no condemnation under the Law." If we are not condemned then there is no guilt. If we are glorified then there is no shame. That's written directly in Romans 8. No verse in the New Testament tells us to live in guilt or shame.
You seem to be telling me that my faith is something other than I what I say it is, which is weird. The Christian faith doesn't even begin with the Fall. It begins with God's promise to Abraham, which was fulfilled in Christ.
You keep insisting on telling Christians what their beliefs are when every Christian here has told you the opposite.

[Anonymous No.23053268]

>>23053243
If your religion begins with gods promise to Abraham, then why is Adam and Eve the first story in the Bible?
Checkmate ChristCuck.
The rest is some more philosophy cope that you use to not understand I alredy destroyed your faith.
"Muh plato, muh Akrasia"
"Muh Romans 8"
Also don't tell me that if you are not a Christian you cannot talk about Christianity, when you guys do that every time to other religions, calling them demons and those things.
So shut up you idiot ChistCuck.

[Anonymous No.23053294]

>>23053268
>If your religion begins with gods promise to Abraham, then why is Adam and Eve the first story in the Bible?
There's no contradiction here. The Bible clearly says that Jesus came to fulfill God's promise to Abraham, that being "from your loins all nations will be saved." We inherit our faith from Abraham, meaning our faith begins with Abraham.
>more philosophy cope
There's that cope word again. It seems like you don't know what it means. Nothing I said in my latest post was even philosophy anyway.
>"Muh Romans 8"
Yes, Romans 8. I cited the Bible which is the foundation to Christianity. Is there a single verse in the Bible that tells me I have to live in guilt or shame? No. There's many verses which say the exact opposite. You assert a claim about Christianity without any foundation other than some head canon.
>Also don't tell me that if you are not a Christian you cannot talk about Christianity
I didn't say that at all. I'll have to assume English isn't your first language.

[Anonymous No.23053321]

>>23053294
Shut up, you are genuinely retarded.
I already destroyed your joke of a religion, which has you self-hating humanity, until some desert dude, "Saved you from your sins" but you still believe in original sin???
Your clown religion dosent even make sense within itself.
Lol.
Also i don't even care whether is "muh philosophy" or "muh theology" its the same thing, you idiot.
So shut up you idiot.

[Anonymous No.23053331]

>>23053321
I accept your concession. Have a blessed day anon.

[Anonymous No.23053355]

>>23053331
Nobody blesses anything.
Your god is a bad father's for cursing original sin on humanity (acording to your clown stories) and then doing a half ass job of curing it with his son, the same son that its taking its sweet time to fucking return to earth.
Your religion is peak Clown carnival.
Lol.

[Anonymous No.23053387]

>>23053355
go back to the homepage, faggot

[Anonymous No.23053408]

>>23053387
No, im not going to do that, Retarded ChristCuck.

[Elliot's Husband No.23053427]

>>23044300
>he never heard about Asakusa Shiro
>he never new how fast christianity spread around japan during semgoku period
I shiggy I diggy

[Anonymous No.23054008]

>>23047696
Romans 14 says so

Rom. 14:1
Now him who is weak in faith receive, but not for the purpose of passing judgment on his considerations.

Rom. 14:4
Who are you who judge another's household servant? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will be made to stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

Rom. 14:13
Therefore let us judge one another no longer, but rather judge this: not to put a stumbling block or cause of falling before your brother.

[Anonymous No.23054129]

>>23054008
subversive jew, your deception has no power here
- Romans 14:4
>Paul says this so that, when something might be done with either good or bad motives, we should leave the judgment to God and not presume to judge the heart of someone else, which we do not see. But when it comes to things which obviously could not have been done with good and innocent intentions, it is not wrong if we pass judgment. So in the matter of food, where it is not known what the motive in eating it is, Paul does not want us to be judges, but God. But in the case of that abominable immorality where a man had taken his stepmother, Paul taught us to judge. For that man could not possibly claim that he committed such a gross act of indecency with good intentions. So we must pass judgment on things which are obviously wrong.
- Augustine of Hippo
Here are some verses as well
>Now I beseech you, brethren, to mark them who make dissensions and offences contrary to the doctrine which you have learned, and avoid them.
- Romans 16:17
>For they that are such, serve not Christ our Lord, but their own belly; and by pleasing speeches and good words, seduce the hearts of the innocent.
- Romans 16:18
>Do not think that I came to send peace upon earth: I came not to send peace, but the sword.
- Matthew 10:34
>For I came to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
- Matthew 10:35
>If any man come to you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into the house nor say to him, God speed you.
- 2 John 1:10
>But the things which the heathens sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God. And I would not that you should be made partakers with devils.
- 1 Corinthians 10:20
>You cannot drink the chalice of the Lord, and the chalice of devils: you cannot be partakers of the table of the Lord, and of the table of devils.
- 1 Corinthians 10:21
>No man can serve two masters. For either he will hate the one, and love the other: or he will sustain the one, and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.
- Matthew 6:24

[Anonymous No.23054140]

>>23053226
What is?

[Anonymous No.23054293]

>>23045333
>>23045421
I’m a midwesterner, not a southerner, so most of my experiences with Protestants are Presbyterian or just vaguely non-denominational. Not a lot of Catholic hate to speak of. Based on my experience, I feel like most Protestants don’t believe in whatever sect they happen to be a part of, cause no one really knows what the distinctions are or what their purpose is anymore. They even believe mostly in the authority of “The Church,” but loosely defined to include all who proclaim Christ as their savior. I’ve been told “there are walls separating the denominations, but none of those wall reach up to Heaven.” I think that’s a fine idea.
It’s interesting though that they still place a heavy amount of importance on Sola Scriptura, because it seems hypocritical to me. As much as autists want to deny it, Nicene Trinitarianism comes from the Church, not from scripture. You can only defend it using verses post-hoc once you know what you’re looking for. Also, not only does the authority of the Bible come directly from the authority of the Church (obviously, because they compiled it), but also Luther’s Bible using the Masoretic text is just wrong. He believed the Masoretic text was the original Old Testament from the time of Christ, but we know now that that isn’t true. And yet, people still have this almost (forgive me) blasphemous worship of the book. I just think Sola Scriptura is a flawed idea, and I don’t think anyone actually takes it that seriously, just paying lip service to it.

[Anonymous No.23054323]

>>23054293
I noticed that Catholics will cite the Matthew 16:18 to support their claim of Apostolic Succession but then claim Nicea grants them legitimacy for compiling scripture. This seems circular. The Gospel of Matthew precedes the Nicean council and therefore was legitimate before the compilation of scripture. Even Catholics have to fundamentally cite scripture before anything else.

[Anonymous No.23054326]

>>23046011
I’ll admit it’s a spectrum rather than a binary. The more self-serving and performative the identity appears to me, the more likely I am to call it a larp. Highly-specific identities (e.g. “Hellenistic Gnostic Leninist Anime Fan”) strike me immediately as self-serving, when packaged like that. If you happen to be a Marxist who happens to like Anime and Gnostic mythos, that’s fine I guess. Once you try to consolidate all those pieces into a niche personal aesthetic that you project online, then it’s 100% a LARP.

[Anonymous No.23055193]

>>23054140
Guilt and Shame.

[Anonymous No.23055200]

>>23055193
imagine saying living a life of virtue and good morals is guilt and shame
the absolute state of degens....

[Anonymous No.23055202]

>>23055200
If it needs to be imposed upon you, you are not virtuous. You are a caged animal.

[Anonymous No.23055204]

>>23044366
>fictional god
Implying that the god of Christianity isn't fictional.

[Anonymous No.23055304]

>>23044300
Christianity is not Western