German Literature

[Anonymous No.23309106]

I read Kafka, I read das Parfum, any more kino suggestions? I don't want to read stupid boomer WW2 drama books.

[Anonymous No.23309111]

I am considering learning German for Literature
Now my ultimate goals would be to read Nietzsche, Schopenhauer and Goethe but what is there between those authors and say, the German translation of Harry Potter?
Am I going to be reading endless Karl May novels?
I am working really hard to get through my first Thomas Mann novel, it's difficult and slow but I'm making progress, who else am I reading at the time?

[Anonymous No.23309118]

>>23309106
>kino
Wrong medium

[Anonymous No.23309125]

>>23309118
Commonly used adjective, seen in all sorts of contexts, used here all the time to refer to books.

[Anonymous No.23309150]

Friedrich Huch

[Anonymous No.23309177]

>>23309106
>i want to read german literature!
>reads a jew

[Anonymous No.23309194]

>>23309177
Best books for learning Jewish then ?

[Anonymous No.23309272]

>>23309177
"German" in this context clearly denotes the language, not the nation. Cormac McCarthy is not Irish literature.

[Anonymous No.23309293]

What are the best books to read which will make me fall in love with German civilisation?
I don't really care about it but then I don't know anything about it

[Anonymous No.23309366]

>>23309177
Yiddish is very close to German.

[Anonymous No.23309371]

>>23309111
Süskind and post-war lit (with the exception of Arno Schmidt and poets like Celan/Bachmann) would be good for beginners due to their rather simple prose. It can't get easier than Trümmerliteratur.

You should avoid Nietzsche for some time though, as him being a stylist makes his texts more demanding.

>>23309177
Without Jews, German literature would be severely worse. Celan, Kafka, Heine, Kantorowicz, Borchardt, Lasker-Schüler...

[Anonymous No.23309381]

>>23309106
I'm reading this right now. Highly recommend. He's an influence on Kafka, and you can tell. Same sense of 'mischievousness'.

[Anonymous No.23309385]

>>23309111
Thomas Mann has a pretty complex style
Some authors I've found pretty easy to understand are
Hoffmann (one of my favorites)
Kafka (pretty simple style, but the surreal themes can be hard to follow if you're still learning the language)
Tieck
I think you'll be able to read Goethe much sooner than Nietzsche or Schopenhauer, since philosophical essays require a better grasp on the language than fiction if you want to really understand them

t. studying German as a foreign language

[Anonymous No.23309388]

>>23309385 (me)
Forgot to add another one: Wilhelm Landig, really obscure, check him out if occult Nazi science fiction sounds appealing to you. His style is rather easy to follow, but his books have no english translation except for a third of the first novel

[Anonymous No.23309393]

>>23309106
Ludwig von Ficker

[Anonymous No.23309451]

>>23309371
I liked Süskind's Das Parfum, did he write anything else of note? Wikipedia seemed to say he just kind of messed around besides that. That's what I got from a glance, anyway.

>>23309381
Noted, danke.

>>23309388
That does sound interesting, thanks.

[Anonymous No.23309476]

>>23309385
Which Hoffmann, anon? Very common name, and there's like 4 writers that you could be referring to.

[Anonymous No.23309487]

Who are the relevant German publishers?
Are there any very well annotated paperback editions? Is there a pléiade of France? Maybe without the leather

[Anonymous No.23309508]

>>23309451
>Wikipedia seemed to say he just kind of messed around besides that.
That's correct. I have read most of his works and they aren't really noteworthy and primarily feel like preparation for das Parfüm, which is undeniably his magnumg opus. It's quite interesting, everything you see in his minor works has been included in das Parfüm but executed in a much superior way – be it similar characters, humor or almost identical phrasings.

I still wanted to recommend die Taube though, as it is obviously not as good as Parfüm but his only other work I would consider maybe worth a read due to how comfy it is. I am sure that you will like it and it's easy and short too. / Other than that maybe check out Krabat if you want a well-written novel for children.

[Anonymous No.23309520]

>>23309508
Excellent, thank you.

[Anonymous No.23309527]

>>23309487
>Is there a pléiade of France?
Deutscher Klassiker Verlag is exactly what you're looking for. Excellent paperbacks with thin-pressed paper and commentary. They get released as hardcovers (linen or leather) first and only a selection gets a cheap paperback release, but sadly the hardcovers are too expensive for most people. They make the best paperbacks imaginable and still manage to offer very affordable prices, sometimes only 10€ for 1000+ pages. Reclam does annotated paperbacks too.

Other than that Germany doesnt really have a Pleiade equivalent, as there are too many competing publishers. For philosophical works (except for Nietzsche/Schopenhauer) always get Meiner or Suhrkamp.

[Anonymous No.23309537]

>>23309527
Also, avoid publishers like Anaconda/Nikol. Buy proper releases and not unedited prints of copyright-free texts (with shit paper and pathetic binding).

[Anonymous No.23309555]

>>23309111
You can read German translations of any book with relatively simple prose, please don't waste your time reading Harry Potter.

[Anonymous No.23309663]

>>23309393
Where the fick to start with Ficker?

[Anonymous No.23309728]

>>23309527
Anon, I don't expect you to know this but I'll ask anyway, since discovering non-English resources on the internet can be quite difficult at times:
I also read classical languages; you may be aware of the Loeb Classical Library style where they alternate pages of Latin/Greek with a page of translation, which is tremendously useful. I recently found that there was a German equivalent of this called "Sammlung Tusculum" (which is fantastic) -- and why should there not be? Germany was/is absolutely huge in the Classics field, so it only makes sense for them not to play second fiddle to English.

I also read Sanskrit; there is, again, an English Loeb-like collection called Clay Sanskrit Library. Is there also a German version of this? Why should there not be? Germany more than practically invented Indology, pretty much all sources and a good more than half of scholarship in the field is German, so I feel like this might well exist. However, it is a massive pain to find things like this, the best you can do nowadays seems to be to google reddit threads for scraps of information, but any combination of "german sanskrit x" or "deutschsprachig sanskritisch x" or whatever just comes up with a bunch of nonsense. I do know of a book named "Indische Sprüchen" which has this format for a bunch of aphorisms, so it seems like it may exist.
Since you show some familiarity with German publishing, I'm asking you. Any leads would be appreciated.

[Anonymous No.23309872]

>>23309476
Ernst Hoffmann, I'm a big fan of his supernatural short stories. I might start The Devil's Elixirs soon

[Anon !SORiJXIUJE No.23309885]

>>23309728
>Since you show some familiarity with German publishing, I'm asking you.
Coincidentally I actually considered studying Sanskrit for a while, so I have some knowledge of what's available! (Although I am only familiar of what's in print, can't say much about older releases)

Sadly there's no equivalent of those bilingual Loeb's, as Classical Indology is in decline and the demand is low. Klaus Mylius released a Chrestomathy of Sanskrit literature, this could come close to what you're looking for. Mylius also released a dictionary of Sanskrit which is considered to be one of the best; even saw Japanese people using it, so it might even be one of the best ones available in any language. But yes, there is an abundance of different textbooks, but sadly not many bilingual releases.

I would recommend going through the search results for Sanskrit on Harrassowitz, as it's the most relevant publisher in the area: https://www.harrassowitz-verlag.de/DEU/suche.ahtml?act=suchen&type=quick&keyword=Sanskrit

They also published the writings of different Indologists, books on related languages such as Pali and a seemingly bilingual and annotated release of Nagarjuna's Mulamadhyamaka-Karikas.

Other than that only Buske and Reichert have a few books on Sanskrit. You might find some results in archives if you type in "Sanskrit Lesebuch".

[Anonymous No.23309900]

>>23309371
But do you genuinely think those jewish authors are good, or were you simply led to believe that they are good by critics and bien-pensant readers, and that you need to think of them as "good" if you want to enter the salon of the literati? Especially considering that most of them have gentile analogues who did what they did but sooner, better, and without the jewish political inclinations.

[Anonymous No.23309907]

>>23309106
You should read Goethe's Faust as soon as you can

[Anon !SORiJXIUJE No.23309923]

>>23309728
>Tusculum

Reclam also has bilingual releases of Greek/Latin classics. Wissenschaftliche Buchgesellschaft too, but they are basically dead now. Meiner also has bilingual releases of Latin works such as the writings of Spinoza or Descartes.

I was also curious how you manage to maintain so many languages? Personally I am still interested in giving Sanskrit a try, but it seems too much for me – especially because I still have to learn Latin and Greek.

>>23309900
>do you genuinely think those jewish authors are good
I do, Celan especially. His translation of Night and Fog is also noteworthy. I also don't know what kind of "political inclinations" you're hinting at. Look up Borchardt and Kantorowicz again.

[Anonymous No.23309939]

>>23309923
What do you think about Reich-Ranicki?

[Anon !SORiJXIUJE No.23309953]

>>23309939
I don't care too much about his literary opinions and he seemed like a dishonest person, but he can be entertaining.

[Anonymous No.23309966]

Urs Widmer

[Anonymous No.23309982]

>>23309953
There has been an attempt for quite a while to rehabilitate the romantics as good progressives and faithful jacobins, despite romanticism itself being fundamentally defined by its opposition to the dehumanizing worldview of the enlightenment and its rediscovery and appreciation of the medieval and the religious, in stark contrast to the cultured loathing of those things by the philosophes. Where do you stand on this? Admittedly, most romantics themselves haven't really felt an irreconcilable contradiction between welcoming the french revolution and also appreciating medieval culture. Perhaps they were just so overcome with emotion and irrationality that they simply didn't think about the paradox.

[Anonymous No.23310004]

>>23309872
Ah, right. Sounds good.

>>23309885
>>23309923
Well, you've certainly outdone my expectations by no small amount.
It does seem like those bilingual editions are a rather modern phenomenon (modern meaning post-1920 or so I guess), which doesn't line it up very well with the heyday of German Indology.
I'm just going to note everything you've mentioned here and browse through it at my leisure later. Thanks a lot.

As regards languages, I'm kind of a cheater. My native language is Dutch, and I learned English as a child, so that's semi-native and I use it most. German is, of course, very similar to Dutch so I have a significant head-start and also retain everything with ease (I just started reading German with basically no knowledge of it besides what I slacked up in high school in November of last year, read about an hour a day and most recently read Süskind with really no trouble at all).
I learned Pali some years ago, and have recently been messing around with Sanskrit; these two are highly similar as well. I know some French (did the Assimil course), which is also cheating because it has like half of its vocabulary in common with English and is grammatically speaking very unimpressive.
Greek is definitely the most hard-fought language I know, since it it extremely difficult, irregular and allows me no crutches like the others, and I can now read like one page per half hour (adding this because my "knowing a language" is fairly relative here).
Sanskrit is fantastic because of how systematically regular it is, it is like the polar opposite of Greek in this regard; knowing a Sanskrit verb in any conjugation will make the root almost instantly obvious to you, and a lot of nouns are simply regular derivations from said roots. It has a perfectly regular vowel gradation system and an intact case system (in contrast with Greek, which has to use the dative for what Sanskrit does with three separate cases) which makes syntax much easier.
All in all, I think the only one I'd need to consciously maintain (keeping in mind that I don't technically "speak" them, which significantly lowers the bar) is Greek, because the language is basically a slanted stack of idiom held together by gum and habituation.
I'd say, however, that it's fairly important for me personally to not start regarding these things as an obligation that I'd have to commit to upkeep on, as I'm definitely the type of person to overdo, rather than underdo, diligence, so I don't really look at it that way.

[Anonymous No.23310010]

>>23309907
I started an attempt several books ago but my German was definitely not good enough yet -- I could scrape by with a little help from a translation, but that's not really any way to go about properly savouring a work of poetry.

[Anon !SORiJXIUJE No.23310119]

>>23309982
Excellent question, but I sadly have to disappoint you and refrain from answering, as I'm neither well-read nor particularly educated. I am only planning to start properly engaging with Romanticism in a year or two, I apologize. Hopefully someone else can add their opinion.

[Anon !SORiJXIUJE No.23310166]

>>23310004
Thank you for your detailed reply! I was planning on working through the French Assimil soon, so I'm glad that it seems to work. You descriptions of Sanskrit also make it quite tempting, hm. Yeah, I might actually give it a try someday. My interest in Greek lessened a bit since I primarily want to read Homer, Sophocles and Pindar; I care significantly less about prose works, so I likely won't try to aim for "high proficiency".

Have you used the Assimil course for Sanskrit?

[Anonymous No.23310931]

bump

[Anonymous No.23311127]

>>23309385
What motivated you to learn German?

[Anonymous No.23311174]

>>23309371
>Celan, Kafka, Heine,
The only important ones you named. You could possibly also include Mendelssohn before them. And even with those four it wouldn't be a significant loss to German literature to be without them. 'Severely worse' is a ridiculous exaggeration.

[Anonymous No.23311336]

ETA Hoffmann has some cool romantic/dark gothic stories that I really enjoy. Hesse is also one of my faves, I really like his style. And of course Heine is fantastic.

[Anon !SORiJXIUJE No.23311337]

>>23311174
I admit that I may have exaggerated a bit, as I quickly get irritated when people start trying to exclude German writers of Jewish ethnicity, although "no significant loss" doesn't feel right either.

[Anonymous No.23311361]

>learn French having only read The Stranger before and I'm glad that I did it even if it might seem like a terrible idea to most people
>thinking about learning German having only read Kafka before
Will I be disappointed?

[Anonymous No.23311658]

>>23309872
Based, Devil's Elixier is great

[Anonymous No.23311669]

Out of the great German writers, Friedrich Schiller hasn't been mentioned yet. Also Ernst Jünger.

[Anonymous No.23311701]

>>23309939
As a critic? Mediocre. As an entertainer? Great. (He was also based btw)

[Anonymous No.23311706]

>>23309982
There was always both progressive and reactionary romanticism, the latter more common. But of course there are attempts to bend everything into a certain direction.

[Anonymous No.23311757]

>>23311337
>although "no significant loss" doesn't feel right either.
I meant it would still be German literature, just as great as it is. The three writers you named are all extremely unique, but despite their popularity it's not like they really defined their eras. It would be a terrible loss, but not significant to German literature on the whole.

[Anonymous No.23312393]

Bump

[Anonymous No.23312579]

>>23310166
>My interest in Greek lessened a bit since I primarily want to read Homer, Sophocles and Pindar; I care significantly less about prose works, so I likely won't try to aim for "high proficiency".
As, I believe, used to be a rather common sentiment, Greek is a very artsy and pretty language, rather like a continuous poetic freestyle, so to speak.
So, when it comes to your enjoyment of the language itself, such as while reading poetry, I think you might profit from even just having a more casual understanding of the language, so that you can see something of how things are constructed, but not to the point of having to commit on painstakingly collecting vocabulary or anything like that. All in all, I think the worth of the commitment would depend on how much you enjoy the mechanics of language; the Greek verbal system really is a work of art in itself.

>Have you used the Assimil course for Sanskrit?
No, I used Ruppel's "Cambridge introduction to Sanskrit", which I chose mostly because it is one of very few courses that includes an answer key (although you do have to email her for it).
I think it may be the case that Assimil would be better for going from scratch; since I already knew Pali, I really only needed information on conjugation, declension and sandhi rules, which Ruppel provides in abundance, concisely and in an incredibly well organized manner. On the other hand, she gives really very little vocabulary and includes few exercises that are not just by rote conjugation (no English-Sanskrit construction whatsoever). I think Assimil likely does these things much better, and very probably trumps her as regards readings as well.
I don't know how thorough Assimil is going to get on grammar, though, which especially for Sanskrit is a very fruitful field of study. You might be well-served keeping a textbook, like Ruppel's (which is easily found on the internet), by the side and using it to check the grammar instructions from time to time. Her diagrams really make understanding the sandhi rules trivial, for example.
On that note, I would not recommend Devavānipraveśika, which is certainly thorough but frightfully unconcise and could burn even the most diligent learner out, I think.

[Anonymous No.23312582]

>>23311669
>Ernst Jünger
I did read In Stahlgewittern but haven't read any of his novels yet. Which would you recommend starting with? Eumeswil?