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/lit/ - Literature

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3117080 No.3117080[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

Why do people in the United States hate Holden so much? They all seem to dismiss the book because of Caulfield's "whining" and such. Don't americans get that he is meant to be like that?
And another question, in a more broad sense: is the "likability" of the protagonist important to the enjoyment you get out of a novel?

>> No.3117085

Do people in your country like Holden?

I understand that Holden is supposed to be an annoying, whiny brat. The reason I dislike the book is that it is entirely written in his voice

>> No.3117084

>>3117080
No one who's serious about literature from an academic standpoint even cares about Holden

>> No.3117096

Half of us are forced to read it in public school when we're teenagers, which prompts us to dislike it and refuse to understand it. I'm one of the kids who never had to read it, but I have little interest in it; it just doesn't sound like something I would enjoy. Perhaps I'll read it someday.

>> No.3117103

>>3117096
Whoops, submitted before I continued my response.

>And another question, in a more broad sense: is the "likability" of the protagonist important to the enjoyment you get out of a novel?


No, of course not, that would be silly.

>> No.3117107

Not everybody hates him. I loved it when I was a teenager. His voice just gets on my nerves nowdays.

>> No.3117111

I don't think Holden is annoying at all, in fact, I love all of what he say, exactly because of the way he say it.

I could never get that "whiny" notion people have of him, even though he is constantly complaining, I never feel that as whining. Actually, I get annoyed at some of the other characters that complained about his whining.

>> No.3117638

>>3117085
Usually people who read Catcher in the Rye here (Brazil) are people that can kind of relate to Holden, because they found the book looking up for things dealing with youth-centered themes.

>> No.3117680

I found him annoying when I read it as a teenager, but when I was older I found it cute and endearing.

>> No.3117691

>>3117638
>Usually people who read Catcher in the Rye here (Brazil) are people that can kind of relate to Holden because they are the only two literate people in the entire country and they are both whiney fucking cunts
ftfy

>> No.3117703

I think you might be getting a skewed perception of culture by lurking /lit/, OP. It's a very popular book, and many Americans love Holden because they think he speaks truly and correctly calls out the "phonies" who are faking their way through life. Actually, it's the second-most popular book among my friends, next to Fight Club.

On /lit/ though it is hated, because /lit/ is like the inversion of popular opinion. DFW is hated, Holden is strongly disliked, Heidegger receives unilateral praise, and Brothers K is regarded as an "entry-level" book. Don't get it twisted, OP.

>> No.3117716

>>3117080
I know the cool thing is to make fun of angst but I really do empathize with Holden and, I really don't even a fuck that people, who've clearly not read the damn thing, feel superior for casually brushing it off. Good for them, but they're wrong and it's a good book.

>> No.3117739

When I read it (on my own) in 7th grade I completely empathized with him.

When I had to read it again in 10th grade I still empathized with him, and actually compared myself to him. His thought process was similar to mine, and we both essentially thought the same things. Only difference is, I'm aware that I'm the "phony" and unlikable, unlike Holden.

>> No.3117759

Americans don't understand their own, or anyone else's literature. Well known fact.

>> No.3117774

>>3117080
Still my favorite book of all time, not the best mind you, that's sirens of titan, but this book had the biggest effect on me

anyway I completely empathized the first time i read it being a 15 year old outcast, with repeated readings i began to realize that holden has serious flaws in the way he views the world and mental processes at large, which i really think has helped me through being a cynical angst ridden bastard, and no, I don't think the likability of a protagonist should impact your enjoyment of a novel unless you're extremely shallow

>> No.3117801

I don't think Holden is all that annoying. Even whining can be beautiful.

Also, why are there so many brazilians in /lit/?

>> No.3117828

>>3117801
Wait, really?
Since when brazilians know how to read?

>> No.3117881

>>3117828
SOme time ago I translated some Clarice Lispector just to see how /lit/ would react and someone readily recognised it Also, when I posted a thread about a peculiar edition of Beast in the Jungle, someone claimed to have connections to the brazilian publisher that made it. Then there is this thread.

>> No.3117898

>>3117801
We are everywhere, and /lit/ (even being the shithole it is) is the best literary group most channer know about.

>> No.3117912

>>3117881
>Clarice Lispector
Jesus Christ how horrifying

Are you brazilian by the way?

>> No.3117920

Why are there so many ladyboys and shemales and whatnot in Brazil? It's always intrigued me.

>> No.3117931

>>3117920 why are there so many fat retards in the US? It's always intrigued me.

>> No.3117933

This thread is so American it hurts.

>> No.3117945

>>3117933
But it's brazilian.

>> No.3117943

I just feel sorry for him.

>> No.3117956

>>3117945
It was made by a Brazilian. The Americans show up and start talking about illiteracy and shemales because that's all they know of one of the most populous and fascinating countries in the entire western hemisphere.

>> No.3117961

>>3117920
Oh God don't mention it, there are tranny hookers everywhere EVERYWHERE

>> No.3117968

>>3117111 here

Brazillian as well. Interesting.

>>3117638
I don't think Catcher in the Rye holds a special feelings like that, though. "Usually" is a strong word, you know one or two guys who like it, don't you?

>>3117920
To compensate for having the best women on Earth.

>> No.3117969

>>3117956
>Implying it's not full of illiteracy and shemales

>> No.3118038

>>3117968
Everybody I know who have read the book, loved it. They're about 5 people. Hell, even my mother likes it.

>> No.3118052

>>3118038
I've met some who did, some who didn't. I think it was a bold generalization coming from you.

>> No.3118055

Move aside, Catcher in the Rye

http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/books/2012/11/schools_should_replace_catcher_in_the_rye_with_blac
k_swan_green.html

>High schoolers need a new Catcher in the Rye. Luckily David Mitchell wrote one.

>> No.3118062

Holden as a character is someone I wholly despise, and I know he's SUPPOSED to be whiny, but that's why I don't like him. In a book like Catcher, where the whole book is literally Holden's thoughts, it's impossible to not like Holden and like the book, at least from my perspective

>> No.3118068

>>3118055

Worst article I've read in a while. Wouldn't skim again.

>> No.3118335

http://bigthink.com/book-think/is-holden-caulfield-obnoxious

>> No.3118522

>>3118335

I really, really enjoyed that. Thanks.

>> No.3118941

>>3118522
No problem.

>> No.3118951

>>3117080
What I thought I'd do is pretend to be one of those deaf-mutes.

>> No.3119338

>>3118951
Your point being...?

>> No.3119354

Here's my problem, alright, you don't like Holden. He's a whiny faggot. Sure, I get that. Is that why you dislike the book? Cool Understandable. If you can't relate, you can't relate.

Are you also trying to say the book is poorly written? Fuck that. You're an idiot. Likeable or not, Salinger is one of the masters at creating living, breathing characters. His writing is great as well; edited to be razor sharp, concise, and forceful. Like Hemmingway, without being such a stoic manly alpha fag.

I love the book, and I don't mind people who dislike it, but I do get annoyed when people call Salinger a bad writer because of it. Try reading his short-stories or Franny and Zooey. Both of these things are much more mature.

>> No.3119383

Certain self-unaware people cannot handle the idea of someone silently judging them for things they do not observe about themselves. That provokes the kneejerk dismissal of the novel and the character.

Literature is great at leaving these observations implicit where they can then be lost on the blind, whereas Holden is both an implicit comment on the psychology of person who passes those judgments (I don't think it's as charitable as people think) and someone who can't help but point out the hypocrisy and inauthenticity of the people around him. It's that latter aspect of his character that's deeply upsetting - the elitism, unwarranted in all but its hypocritical logic.

>> No.3119460

>>3119354
>Like Hemmingway
>Hemmingway
>mm

>> No.3119540

>>3119460
Grow up.

>> No.3119545

was does holden talk like a sailor if he is a kid???

>> No.3119563

>>3119540
no.

>> No.3119598

>>3117912
I liked Hour of the Star. Fuck you

>> No.3119621

>>3119460
Yes. That's how it's spelled.